Best in Class? Taste for Yourself
By Bob Lutz
GM Vice Chairman
Bob Lutz
As I said before we appreciate all of the comments… positive and critical, keep ‘em coming. I would love to address more of them directly if there were more hours in the day. Every so often, however, a comment cries out for a response so loudly that I have to put thumbs to Blackberry. The following is one of those:
“Mr. Lutz, I’m looking for an excuse to ‘buy American,’ after switching to Japanese vehicles 15 years ago. Unfortunately, I’m still looking for that excuse. With all the talent and resources that GM has, why can’t every GM division have at least ONE vehicle that is best in class for design, quality and performance? AND outsells the Japanese competition?”
First of all, just as with cigars, wine and gin, you are making a potential mistake if you are basing your decision solely on country of origin. Sure, reputation plays a big role, but check it out carefully, and go drive, or sip, or puff, and then decide.
The quality issue is a particular sticking point.
Mid-size Buicks have the best initial quality and the best long-term (3 years measured by Consumer Reports) dependability of any mid-size sedans in the world. And that includes Toyota, Honda, and Nissan. Not to mention Mercedes, which is not stellar.
Many GM makes outscore the Toyota brand on J.D. Power quality. Toyota is only Number One when it’s measured as “Toyota Corp.,” which includes Lexus.
Our full-size utilities, GMC Yukon and Chevrolet Tahoe and Suburban, handily win against all domestic and foreign competition on J.D. Power quality.
So, why is this not better known?
It’s largely because the general press in this country has fallen into a depressing but easy pattern of “foreign good, U.S.-produced bad.” They perpetuate conventional wisdom and don’t report the latest state. I remember the time of the Daimler takeover of Chrysler in ‘98. The press essentially concluded, almost unanimously, “One good thing is that Mercedes will finally bring quality to Chrysler.”
Hello! If they had bothered to check the data, they would have found that Chrysler quality was already significantly better than Mercedes, and it presumably still is today.
In short, we are all trying to live down a reputation that was probably at one time deserved, but is no longer justified. Will we ever be able to change it? One mind at a time, and you can help by going out and trying a new Buick Lacrosse, a Pontiac G6, any Cadillac, or the all-new Chevrolet Cobalt, which, in terms of ride, handling, refinement and body fits I will willingly put against a Civic or Corolla.
And the initial quality, based on our own early returns, is at or better than the best in class on all three. And, important point, only GM plans to equip every one of its vehicles with OnStar, arguably the biggest single contribution to on-road safety and security in the business.
Don’t take my word on any of this. Check the data, and go make comparison drives. As Iacocca used to say, “If you can find a better car (at or near the same price) buy it!”
It’s a hard road back, but we do deserve your consideration.
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Well said Mr. Lutz.
Don’t take this the wrong way, but you didn’t answer the question. The question was “Design, quality, and performance”. I’ve been very happy with the quality of my 95 saturn, its actually held up rather well, and from a mechanical/reliability standpoint, I would have no problem buying a GM car again.
The weakness is on design and performance, and cost/performance. Lets take the midsize category. The Malibu/G6 looks vastly better, but the inside on the high end still doesn’t match the accord & camry. And the engine is frankly, uhh, lacking: Honda is making 240 hp, Nissan 250hp, and even Mazda (a warmed over Ford engine) is 220hp, the GM offerings get 200hp, old tech pushrod engines, even in the performance-oriented Pontiac division.
Likewise, the midsize trucks: Which would you rather have, a Tacoma or a Colorado? The tacoma has a composite bed with a tiedown system like the Titan, available power outlet in the back, and a bunch of other niceties, and a fair bit more oomph in the V6 vs I5 engine comparison.
Or fullsize SUVs? A suburban is a reliable vehicle, but compare it to a Nissan Armada as a whole package, especially when cost gets involved?
Or small station wagons? The Vibe is a nice vehicle, every bit as good as the Toyota Matrix (I would hope so, its the same vehicle and the same plant), but the Vibe costs $2500 more!
However, I can answer the question for two vehicles: If the Saturn sky drives well, it will out miata-the-miata in design, equal in performance, and probably exceed in cost/performance (new miata will probably get a price-jump). And odds are good that I’ll be buying one.
The second is real heavy duty DIESEL pickups. There is no competition with the Japanese: the real decision is Chevy/GMC vs Ford vs Dodge.
“Many GM makes outscore the Toyota brand on J.D. Power quality.”
Well, in initial quality rankings for 2004, only two brands, Buick and Caddy, out of 7 domestic brands beat Toyota. I wouldn’t call that many. And Lexus still tops everyone. (OTOH, Scion doesn’t look good in 2004.) In the 3-year rankings, Toyota models really clean up, with several top rated vehicles.
If GM wants to dispell the (justified or not) bad reliability reputation, then it is going to have to beat the Japanese brands and do so for several years. Merely being almost as good as isn’t going to cut it. GM also needs to attend to quality (perceived or real) in the 7-10 year time frame, which affects resale value and TCO to the original owner. I think most people expect trouble-free operation to at least 120,000 miles, without the paint fading and body parts sagging. Extending quality out to this time-frame would do GM’s reputation a great deal of good.
As someone who wants GM to succeed for a few reasons, and who loves his ‘95 saturn like the previous commenter, I must draw attention to the end of your post.
How’s the match on price, Mr. Lutz? Is there anything you all can do about the cost of vehicle production in this country? Why can foreign companies build cars AND ship them over here for cheaper than you can sell them to us? Is there a way to improve the situation?
It’s absolutely true that we’re living in a post-modern era of automobile manufacture where brand nationality means squat.
I drive a BMW M Coupe. It’s German, right? Well yes, it is designed in Germany, but it’s made in the U.S. The paint is terrible, for which I fault the U.S. plant that built it, but all of its assorted squeaks and little mechanical gremlins got there via a German engineer’s CAD mouse. On the other hand, my Honda Accord (also built in the U.S.) is a paragon of quality and reliability. Go figure, right?
Quality is an international language, but no one firm can claim a lock on it just because they’re Japanese or German or whatever. The proof is in the pudding, and I just might have to go out and test drive a Buick. There, I said it.
Mr. Lutz
I have to disagree with you on the comment made about the Cobalt. I went to a recent car show where I was able to view and sit in both the new Cobalt SS and the Toyota Corolla S. I must admit I was vastly disappointed in the Cobalt SS.
In comparison, the Cobalt SS is the same size as the Cavalier. The interior design was very blocky and did not line out very well. The seats were terrible in the fact that when you sit in a car seat, you want to sit in a car seat, you don’t want to sit ON the car seat. In the Cobalt SS, I expected to see good lines and have a good feel. When I got into the car, the headroom was so low that the top of my head stuck through the sunroof. And I’m only 5′2″. Again, it’s from sitting on top of the driver’s seat, and not in it.
From an inside view of the Cobalt SS as well, I was dismayed at the lackluster dash and instrument cluster. To put it simply, when you get into the Cobalt SS, it felt more like the interior was done without passion. I expected more.
Now for the Corolla S. I was extremely pleased with the lines both inside and out of the car. You sit in the seats and they conform around you like a glove instead of on top of the seats. The headroom was very spacious and the inside of the Corolla S was very comfortable all the way around.
The instrument cluster, as well, was very nice. The dash and surrounding display was done very well. The cluster itself and all of the guages were done very smoothly and gave it a true sports car feel. Put simply, when you get into the Corolla S, you can tell that a team of people went in on this, sweated over it and put it together with the passion of a true automaker.
I think the thing that shocked me the most about this experience is simply the fact that my father is a GM employee. I grew up in a GM house and we’ve pretty much always had a GM car. Well until recently, when my father found Ford and I found Toyota.
Mr. Lutz
You are missing why people favor the Japanese cars. True that they benefit from perceived quality they may or may not deserve, but I ask you to sit in a Pontiac G6 and a Toyota Camry and tell me which interior looks and feels nicer. And I think about how the G6 is much newer than the Camry. If current GM cars can barely be on par with the Japanese cars that have been around for a while, then they have no chance against newer models the Japanese would bring out in the future.
If you are serious about making GM into a comeptitive company, then you need to make sure that every new GM car doesn’t just meet the expecations, but exceeds it and sets a new bar.
Also, GM needs to really work on interior quality and refinement. I mean, the huge panel gaps on the hugely expensive Cadillac Escalade is just unacceptable. And don’t tell me I’m prejudiced; I own one myself. But then again, I guess it counts for something that I bought the vehicle despite that downside. However, there were not any other vehicles that met my criteria at the time.
I heard that the new GMT-900 trucks/SUVs were going to be produced in 2006, ahead of schedule. But if you are launching them early just because your revenues are falling, forget about it. I would strongly advise that you take the time to perfect those vehicles that are so vital to GM. Otherwise, you will face losing marketshare to increasing competition from Japanese and the Koreans.
On a final note, I desperately ask you to stop making gray interiors. They look horrible and do nothing for the cars. I was just dumbfounded when I saw a Pontiac Solstice shown at an auto show with a gray interior. Why didn’t that have the beige-blue two-tone interior that as was initially shown? Already people in automotive forums are complaining how bland the interior looks in gray. Why do GM insist on gray?? I can’t figure it out. Gray is possible the most boring color of all. So I ask you again: please stay away from gray.
Sorry if I am being too vituperative. I just want to do what I can to make GM a better company.
I love GM
“Mid-size Buicks have the best initial quality and the best long-term (3 years measured by Consumer Reports) dependability of any mid-size sedans in the world. And that includes Toyota, Honda, and Nissan.”
That may have something to do with Buick having the oldest demographic of any brand, with a median age of almost 70.
It seems that younger people are more critical.
Here is what Jim Farley, head of Scion, had to say in a January 31 WSJ article:
“Mr. Farley says Scion’s young customers aren’t like their Boomer parents. For starters, they are far more critical. Scion customers under 35 years old found 40% more problems with their cars than older, Boomer-aged customers did with the very same models.”
How many in the under-35 crowd were persuaded by Tiger into buying a LeSabre?
But assuming that quality and fit and finish are on par with the Japanese models in many segments, the problem is what Peter DeLorenzo seems to bring up every week — the perception gap. People’s perception of a brand is not based on the latest generation of vehicles but is more like a decaying average of the vehicles offered over the past 10-20 years. It will take many successive generations of top-notch vehicles before people stop considering the Chevette when they think about GM quality.
Thanks, Lutz. And you’re right. That’s why our entire family has made the change from foreign to GM. Note: we still don’t buy Chrysler or Ford products as we have yet to find any that fits our quality and driveability needs.
I have been arguing this point for some time now. If you prefer a car because of some attribute, fine, go with that. If you have the perception that a Japanese-branded car is somehow “better,” then you are not particularly perceptive. There are just as many dummies building, selling, and servicing foreign cars.
In the late ’70s and early ’80s, I would have agreed with that assessment. I don’t anymore. I’ve had one of Consumer Reports all-time “best buys” (Honda Civic) and it was a miserable experience all the way around. I’ve also had one of the vehicles that they most despised (Chevy S-10) and it has been one of the most reliable vehicles I’ve ever owned.
Part of the problem seems to be that when a foreign car owner has a problem, they kind of gloss it over as not really being a problem (Well, it’s the only problem I’ve had). If they have the same problem with an American-badged car they fall all over themselves finding fault with an entire brand or line. (This happened so they are all junk).
In my area at least, I have found domestic dealers more responsive to problems, more likely to honor the warranty, more likely to try and solve the problem. I have found domestic vehicles cheaper to maintain (brakes, exhaust) and more likely to go 200,000 miles. To be honest, it also seems more likely that trim pieces and door handle-type things will fall off before they die, too.
Boosts in horsepower are fine but how often does Toyota change its drivetrain? Every four years when they change a design, does that mean all the mechanical parts change, too? Actually, I think they often change mechanicals more often then the design.
Will the alternator from a ‘97 fit a 2001 or do you have to pay for that duplicity of effort? Having paid over $200 for a Honda muffler not worth more than $50, I’m thinking that’s the case. Because that’s who ultimately pays for the constant changes. I don’t want to pay that much.
I’m not thinking Camry or Malibu when I want a performance car. The extra few horsepower would not be a factor in buying that kind of car for me. Two hundred horse moves an Impala around quite well.
My problem with the Colorado is that they’ve priced it out of S-10 range. I can’t afford one, period. If I get one off the lot with 4WD, it’s going to cost me mid-20’s, so I might as well buy a full size. My 4WD S-10 was $16k. I want a truck with rubber floor mats and window cranks, not carpeting and full power. I’m apparently the last person on earth that doesn’t want to pay for all that crap.
If you prefer Toyota, more power to you. But just say you prefer Toyota. Possibly because the interior is more “pleasing” to you. Don’t try and tell me it’s because they make a better car. I have a Camry, too. Nobody in the family wants to drive it because it uses a quart of oil every 100 miles and a motor is more than the car is worth.
I’m not knocking Toyota or Honda in general (I have a specific beef with Honda), I’m just saying there are positives and negatives to every mindset. They may make a better disposable car, that I might agree with. If you want to get in and drive, not do anything, and get rid of it at the first sign of trouble, then that could go either way.
My problem with GM cars has never been one of “quality.” None of these “quality” standards or surveys means anything to me — domestic initial quality is just as good as the imports. However, it is insane that three years is “long term.” Three years is nothing. Ask your customers up there about their ‘95 Saturns — they are happy with them, sure, but I’m also happy with my ‘96 Subaru Legacy.
No, my problem is that GM does not make a car for me. I want a compact, mid-range AWD sedan or wagon. Not a truck; not a land-yacht; not a minivan; not a ‘luxury car’ which as AWD tacked on as an afterthought. And ideally I’d like to see it proven in competition in the World Rally Championship.
What is in your inventory today which appeals to me? Your Pontiac Vibe thing is interesting, and if it is still available when the Legacy is up for replacement I will definitely give it a try. But since it is more of a sub-compact, I’m 6′2″ and like to wear a hat when I drive, I’m not holding my breath.
How about the Sasb 9x? Well, besides the fact that it is also a subcompact (although one you can wear a hat in), I can go and buy the same car with “Subaru WRX” stamped on the tailgate for less money than I can buy the “Saab.” Also, my family has been burnt by the rebadged-import trick before (funny how there are no parts for those cars after 10 years, isn’t it?)
However, since your domestic competition does not get this either (Ford’s silly rebadging of Volvos being what it is), I am not anticipating that I will ever see a compelling story for me at GM.
Mr. Lutz
I’m glad you continue to try and improve GM, I just hope you can do it on time. GM needs to stay on top, but they have a horrible perception. Eg: GM recalls cars for door handles. It’s on the headlines of CNN and on the front page of every newspaper. Honda just recalled 486,000 cars for ignition, I think, and you will maybe see it on a website if you’re lucky. But I guarantee you it will not be all over the news like when a domestic does it.
“That may have something to do with Buick having the oldest demographic of any brand, with a median age of almost 70.”
That may be the average age but that doesn’t mean young people don’t drive them. I see tons and I mean tons of young people here that drive Centurys and Regals. I talk to some of them and none of them have anything to complain about. Buick has always been about quality. Hell, my Century has had no problems — absolutely nothing has gone wrong with it!
I just hope the Lucerne is a success for Buick. I just hope the V8 in it gets atleast 290-300 horse power or the press will eat it alive for having a V8, because its direct competitor is the Toyota Avalon that gets that much horsepower with a V6…
Very well said, Mr. Lutz.
Simply re-kindling the stereotypes that developed from the mid-’70s to early-’90s is ludicrous now. How many independent durability/quality surveys will GM have to place in the upper echelon before customers will accept that their perceptions are outdated?
To paraphrase what you have said, though, Mr. Lutz – there is nothing wrong with GM that product can’t fix. Your products in the pipeline look they are going to be remarkable, and I’d be willing to bet that they will dramatically change customers’ perceptions.
Mr. Ferguson has obviously not driven the 2005 Chrysler 300C.
Bob,
Please, please, please! NO MORE UNCOMFORTABLE CHEAP SEATS IN GM CARS. This TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE in today’s marketplace. Most customers make up their minds quickly by the way the car feels when you sit down (providing the exterior design got them to open the door). Too many GM products have rotten seats. You talk about “spend the extra $$$ to reduce the rebates”. Well, time to spend the money on GOOD seats. Otherwise, I am happy with my GM Grand Prix. Best sedan we make for the money.
Mr. Lutz,
GM cars have indeed improved lately in basic reliability, which is commendable.
The realities of today’s competitive marketplace require more than just failure to break down early in the car’s life. Many makers have track records of reliable cars with reasonable maintenance costs.
The differentiator is the total package of design, quality and performance, as noted in the comment to which your response was directed.
GM still aims at the vast middle market of people who are essentially indifferent about cars. While exterior design has improved, and there is some progress on interiors, look at the instrument gauges on a typical GM product, versus a Honda, VW, or even bland Toyota… GM is not there yet.
And OnStar is indicative of the “features” mindset about quality and performance, when many new car buyers respond more to “qualities” they perceive lacking in GM products vs. the competition.
GM has very few vehicles with a good, enjoyable manual transmission and well-positioned clutch. Steering tends to be light and artificial in feel, without the sense of the road that makes driving more of a pleasure and less of a chore.
GM’s reputation will improve, with its Power scores, when its vehicles demonstrate excellence in inherent feel and qualities, as well as offering useful features that do not become service nightmares later in the ownership period.
You CAN buy a (mostly) GM Car David: It’s called a Subaru WRX or Outback, which is very similar to Mazda in its relationsihp to Ford.
“only GM plans to equip every one of its vehicles with OnStar, arguably the biggest single contribution to on-road safety and security in the business.”
I don’t see how OnStar contributes a great deal to on-road safety and security. Unless I’m mistaken about its capabilities and it can take over the vehicle and drive you out of danger, I don’t see how a built-in cell phone helps you all that much.
I totally agree that perception trumps reality and that the so-called MSM is heavily biased towards off-shore brands.
One suggestion might be to hire someone like Karl Rove or Dick Morris as a consultant (someone who understands media bias and how to overcome it).
Good luck and thanks for the blog!
I agree with the comment about GM’s awful gray interiors.
Gray leather looks like synthetic elephant hide. Yuck!
The Saturn Aura interior at the Autoshow was excellent. I hope those seats make it to production.
Brock Tice,
Ask the UAW and GM retirees why GM cars currently cost so much.
I had a 1991 GMC K1500 that I sold to a friend of my father when I bought a 2002 Silverado. That ‘91 had gone 370,000 miles. I talked to the present owner of the GMC recently, and he told me it now has turned over 400,000 miles and still runs strong with the original drivetrain. I didn’t baby the GMC, it was abused like a truck. It towed a 5,000-pound boat/trailer combination for many years. It saw a lot of off-road use on many camping trips and plowed through lots of snow drifts because I live on a country road that doesn’t get plowed in the winter.
The 2002 Silverado now has 62,000 miles with no problems. As long as GM keeps building good reliable trucks, I’ll keep buying them.
I am very pleased with the quality in my 2005 Colorado. It has the 4 cyl and consistently gets between 28-30 mpg. It has plenty of acceleration, handles well, stops great, and the overall workmanship and quality are excellent! I am very glad I decided to buy a Chevy instead of an import. And to list my driving choices, I also have a Corvette and a Mercedes to choose from, but my backside is usually to be found in the Colorado. Quality? I can say that Chevrolet is right there.
Mr. Lutz,
Why can’t Cadillac dealerships offer the same level of courtesy and service as Lexus or even BMW dealerships? GM vehicles may be on par with much of the import competition but the attitude and level of service I get whenever I walk into a Cadillac dealership is absolutely appalling.
Also, why doesn’t GM run car clinics in various metros around the country so people can get an up-close and personal look at the cars (without having to be pestered by salespeople)?
Not to mutate this topic another direction (it’s not like it hasn’t taken a couple of turns already), but..
It’s fascinating to read the variety of opinions on everything from everybody’s wants & needs to everyone’s percieved quality of GM and what GM’s roadmap to success should look like. There’s no way possible for GM to build a vehicle that is going to fit every single person’s want or need. I do hope that GM can leverage this blog to their advantage and build more and more products that hit their target audiences.
This blog is a great innovation; but it’s only useful if we can provide it some focus and use it communicate well. Not to specifically knock, but the “Ask the UAW…” post really doesn’t give GM any real benefit. It’s just a cheap shot. GM knows as much as anyone the pains of their legacy costs.
Ahhhh, now that is the issue!!! The legacy costs that the domestics have to deal with visa-vie the transplants have an effect that most people on the street aren’t aware of. Imagine if you had between $1,200 and $1,600 additional dollars to commit to R&D or interior materials or better paint, etc.
When you consider the quality and value of the new products that GM is placing in the market with such an enormous cost disadvantage right from the beginning, it is amazing. Bob, get the marketing guys to work on getting that message out and THEN talk about quality…now you have something. My 2004 Cadillac CTS is about nine months old, runs and drives perfectly, has over 25,000 miles on it already and has the room and function and fun to drive quotient of a BMW 5 Series at a 3 Series price. (Please make sure “pull forward” continues, I didn’t buy enough miles!!!)
I love the thumbs to Blackberry comment. I have one and know that emotion.
Quality is not only the number of parts on a car that fail. Quality is also the feel of the materials. The sound of the engine. The ease of the shift. The pedal feel when braking. The depth in the paint. The small details in the stitching.
Cadillac has this down except a few minor bits. The attention to detail is spreading through GM quickly, though. I actually enjoy the interior of the current Malibu. The exterior leaves me cold with its bug eyes and awkward shape, though.
The hard facts about quality continue to improve, and now the warm and fuzzy side of touchy feely materials is greatly improving.
Unfortunately perception = reality in this high stakes game. Perceptions can change fast — just look at what the 300C is doing for DCX. GM is taking a longer-term approach with safe designs but building in the value needed for better residual values in the future.
Side note/question: What would happen if GM focused all of its resources on one product for each segment it competed in? I am not talking about different brands, I am saying ONE PRODUCT LINE WITH THE GM LOGO ON IT. I think you could build the best products in the world focusing on one product line. Imagine the simplicity of it.
We’ve had Maximum Bob and then Tom Stephens (unless I’m wrong, isn’t he the VP overseeing GM powertrains)? Who is next? Are we going to get designers? Artists? Engineers? Plant managers? This could be really fun! As a car enthusiast (let alone a GM enthusiast), do you know how exciting this is to have a peak “behind the curtain”? This is absolutely outstanding!
Sir,
I think you are fooling yourself if you think the interiors of GM’s small cars are comparable in quality to a Toyota Corolla. And Cadillac interiors do not have the fit, finish, nor feel of the top Lexus models they compete with.
I do agree that quality has improved to the point where many American cars are good buys. But one or two JD Power rankings won’t do. Let’s see GM continue to beat Honda/Toyota year in and out and also improve quality. It took a long time for the U.S. to get a rep for poor quality. It should take a long time for GM to prove it’s learned its lesson. Moreover, no car line at GM improved as rapidly as Hyundai did in the last 10 years.
If GM is so confident of its improvements, why not offer a 5-year/50,000 mile warranty across the board?
The truth hurts: For all the years of bad cars, you must put out cars that are better and cheaper than the competition before you’ll have the right to charge a premium again.
Nicholas Weaver wrote:
“Likewise, the midsize trucks: Which would you rather have, a Tacoma or a Colorado? The tacoma has a composite bed with a tiedown system like the Titan, available power outlet in the back, and a bunch of other niceties, and a fair bit more oomph in the V6 vs I5 engine comparison.”
Well, I compared the two thoroughly and I just bought a 2005 GMC Canyon. Superb quality, tight as a drum, beautiful finish, and it drives, handles and rides cirles around the Tacoma (or any of its other competitors). The key is actually test driving the trucks. The Canyon/Colorado will win a hands on comparison, hands down.
On-Star was a huge plus for me. It is far more than a built in cell phone, as previous poster suggested. I wouldn’t put my family in a vehicle that wasn’t equiped with On-Star.
I do agree with others that the grey interiors have got to go!
Finally, Mr. Lutz, PLEASE consider making a small, open air Hummer to compete with the Jeep Wrangler. I would pay a premium for such a vehicle.
Thank You,
Bruce Sherman
I have been saying this forever… Go test drive the new GM vehicles, don’t turn to biased media outlets such as Consumer Reports. If you can’t figure out what vehicle you like better by yourself, possibly you shouldn’t be driving.
Just a quick comment for all of those commenting.
Check out GM’s Auto Show In Motion.
http://www.autoshowinmotion.com
Its a good event. I thing GM is on the way to turning things around. But I don’t think they’ve quite arrived yet.
One problem is that because cars are such a significant and expensive purchase, one bad experience can sour a person on a brand for a very long time. I think most of us know a person (perhaps ourselves) who bought a particular make or model that was a lemon, and now would not consider buying another.
Here’s a milder example: my father has owned several Buicks over the years, but he is unhappy with his current one. I know that if he buys another car, he’ll be much more skeptical when he looks at Buick again, because this current experience has been negative.
That’s one reason why it’s so difficult to recover when a car’s reputation is tarnished, because it’s easy to lose a customer for decades, if not for life, because of one bad car.
I wouldn’t gauge a car’s quality by its warranty. To me, it seems that the cars with the longest warranties are the ones trying to overcome the worst reputations for quality.
Traveling on business and pleasure, I try to rent a variety of different cars, to see what they’re like to live with. The ones I have liked the best are the Buick Century and the Ford Taurus. The Ford seemed to have a bit firmer ride; but both of them felt good to drive and handled well.
But (and it’s a big but) the car I chose to purchase in the fall of 1999 was a Nissan Altima. My primary concerns were reliability, reliability, and reliability. I don’t care how long the warranty is. Even if the work is free, the time away from work while I bring the car to the dealer costs me money. I picked the Altima because the engine has a timing chain instead of a timing belt, so I don’t have to worry about it breaking. Right now it has 92,000 miles on it. It has had no major repairs; just scheduled maintenance, tires, and front brake pads. It has not only outlasted the auto loan, it is still a pleasant car to drive.
Will a Buick Century give me the same kind of satisfaction? I’ll have a look at it again in 2007 or so, when I’m ready to replace the Altima.
Bob, thanks for putting up this weblog. You’re a legendary manager at GM, and it’s an honor to be able to give you feedback.
Here’s a comment from Japan.
I understand what you want to say, but how about SUBARU?
Can you talk about this Japanese brand that is in the GM group — it’s brand direction, relationship with SAAB, etc.
Mr. Lutz,
What I would most like to see in GM brands, is a match in the bumper-to-bumper warrenty of other brands. If you believe in your brands, why not a 100,000 mile warrenty?
Lutz Defends GM. Autovida Responds
Bob Lutz blogs for GM once again to blog about the continuing thrashing that his cars are getting in the Automotive press.
Automotive value and quality are not really measured by opinion polls. It’s measured by the resale value (aka: residual value) of a vehicle. Why does a used Honda Accord sell for so much more than a used Ford Taurus? Is it perceived or real? Why can’t Detroit build a car that is at the top of the list for residual value? Personally, I have no loyalty to any brand or car. I vote with my wallet – that’s why I’ll continue to buy from Honda and Toyota and not GM or Ford.
“It’s largely because the general press in this country has fallen into a depressing but easy pattern of “foreign good, U.S.-produced bad.” They perpetuate conventional wisdom and don’t report the latest state”
Mr. Lutz,
To me this statement that you gave is the biggest problem with GM. Perception. I just went through this with my dad. They were looking for a new car and asked my opinion. I suggested a number of GM vehicles. His reply “I’ve owned a GM once and it was totally unreliable, I’d never buy one again” I then proceded, with my mom, who wants a Buick, and reviewed all the cars my parents have ever owned. It turns out that the last GM that they had was 25 years ago. A friend of my mom sold her a Pontiac for $25 and they drove it with no problems for 3 years and then sold it for $75. Plus all of the GM’s that I’ve owned have been more reliable than anything they’ve ever owned. Once I was able to past my dads mental block with GM they were willing to look at them. They now own a Buick Century and a Yukon.
With my parents I was able to use family history and my position as their son and mechanical engineer in the auto industry to get them to think positivly of GM. But how does GM overcome this perception hurdle with other people? How can GM get past this “foreign good, U.S.-produced bad” perception?
BTW I got my inlaws into GM’s too.
Mr. Lutz,
It’s a privilege to get a direct response to my question — thank you for your time!
As you mentioned, I have had the opportunity to compare new GM vehicles like the Pontiac G6 and GM mini vans against the competing offerings from Toyota and Honda. Unfortunately for GM, I found that Toyota and Honda offered a package of design, quality, and performance that was hard to beat.
Regardless of what the press says, if GM offers world class vehicles in each segment, it won’t be long before GM vehicles start outselling current segment leaders like the Camry and Odyssey. I don’t believe GM is there yet.
In the high tech industry where I work, Intel beat back a major challenge from Japan Inc. and became the leader in the computer chip industry, with a relentless focus on ‘time to market’, results, and accountability.
I believe that GM, under your initiatives, MUST do likewise for the American auto industry. For a country which sent a man to the moon first, anything less is a symbol of national decline.
Your analogy of cigars, wine and gin is a good one… putting aside the world’s best wines and cigars (we’re not comparing Rolls or Bentley in this example) an unexpectedly bad experience would set you back a few hundred bucks and would end instantly.
For better or worse, you’re pretty much stuck with your auto purchase for a few years, and taking that leap of faith is tough.
I looked at a Rendezvous before buying the Murano that I currently drive. The “initial quality,” including performance, looks and price did not compare. I would LOVE to buy American, and I am sure you would love me not only to buy American, but GM as well.
The numbers tell the truth. The top selling Caprice and Cutlass have been replaced by the Accord and Camry.
I recommend that you go to a Honda dealer, buy a new car off their lot and drive it for a year. You’ll see why people are hesitating.
You and this blog are encouraging … maybe next time around I’ll go for it.
As I am sure you know, the typical buyer is not a car nut like those of us who post here. They want value, looks, service and a good experience.
Here’s your issue:
I have memories (not great ones) of my parents owning American cars (when foreign cars were odd, and parts were scarce)
My daughters are growing up with memories of parents who only own foreign cars with little or no repairs.
Their grandparents now have an Infiniti, VW, Honda and have a Nissan on the way.
What do you think that they will buy?
Mr. Lutz-
I think that most reasonable people take what the press says about American cars with a grain of salt these days. That includes most car magazines as well. J.D. Power, in my opinion, has a better reputation for auto ratings. The BEST guideline for a car’s reliabilty would be your friends/family and THEIR experience with a certain car/dealer.
I think many people realize that GM’s quality has improved, but the DESIGNS leave much to be desired- BORING! My last GM car was a 1996 supercharged Buick Riviera. As I have stated in the Saturn topic area, I was all set to get another one in 1999, but GM stopped making them. What other choice did I have then? A Cadillac Eldorado for THOUSANDS more when the Riv had everything I needed and wanted in a sporty looking car with a semblance of luxury.
The only reason I bought my all black 2005 Buick LaCrosse CXS is because it was halfway good looking, had all the gadgets I wanted AND it allowed me to apply my GM credit card $$$$ that was close to $3,000. I can’t say it’s a real head turner by any means, but I’m happy with it. Just turned 1,000 miles this afternoon.
I think that the biggest thing that turns people off to a car or company is the way they are TREATED at the dealer when and if a problem does occur. They don’t want to hear- “can’t duplicate the problem or never saw that before or you’re the only one who ever complained about that OR they all do that”!!!! Those are all no-no’s in this day and age with all the car forums for specific vehicles that are available where we can hook up with people who not only may build our cars, but might just also WORK at the car company in question! I KNOW because it happened to me with a previous American car! I knew the dealer AND the factory reps were full of BULL with all their double-talk! I played their game until I couldn’t take it any longer, then I called DETROIT myself. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, you people in the corporate offices live in the “Ivory Tower” up there and have NO clue what we, ordinary, everyday working people have to put up with when we bring our cars in for service/problem and get treated like the poor step-child or worse yet, like we have NO clue about cars! I’ve been saying this for years, but it obviously has fallen on DEAF ears. Small town dealers may be one thing, but large city i.e. Northeast- dealers can be another story and often are!
With many companies outsourcing their “customer service” to foreign countries with people that you don’t understand or worse yet, don’t understand you is going to lead to a loss of business for those companies. When I have a problem I want it fixed/repaired without having to try a million and one things before someone shows up to fix it! The treatment that people receive at many dealers is akin to this “customer service”! They might save money in the short run, but not in the long run. Remember, word of mouth is STILL the best advertising!
Anyway, glad you started this blog and glad that you read the comments. Just don’t placate us by telling us what you think we want to hear.
I have to say that Mr Wellburn and Mr Lutz have done a fine job of making the current and future GM line look closer to 5 year old Chryslers than world class vehicles they profess.
Instead of the American revolution we can say now that “GM Engineering the rental fleets of the future. The G6 looks like a Neon and the ION is ugly as sin. The Lacrosse is……. old. Maybe making cars from spare parts is ok I am not sure but it appears you are looking at 20 % market share by 2010.
I do get to rent all of your cars at the rental fleet centers. This is very sad. I hope you realize that the 900 will be outdated when it appears. The new vans are 5 years old already. The Malibu is…… not what I had hoped.
I ordered my first Corvette in november and was very happy about it. I had met the Manager of the Corvette project Wilmer Cook at the auto show sometime back. As an African American I was proud that he was responsible for the new Corvette.
My wife and I retired and left for Florida before Christmas and drove down through Kentucky. We decided to stop and take the tour through the Bowling Green plant but stopped and stayed with friends who took us through the Toyota Plant in Kentucky.
The people were in uniforms and were courteous and everyone knew allot about what they were doing. I have to admit I was totally surprised at the size and cleanliness of the facility but also the pride that they took in the product and culture.
We visited the Bowling Green plant 3 days later and it was dirty and people were smoking. The cars were being repaired everywhere and the tour guide knew very little. The employees were less than what I imagined they would be. I made some easy decisions after the tour.
We bought a Lexus SC Coupe and it is marvelous!
My twin daughters are seniors at MSU and both got new Toyota Corollas for Christmas. The writing is on the wall. Your cars lack value and are over priced. The problem at your company is not health care it is lack of leadership.
I used to questions minorities that bought foriegn cars and now I am one. Value is something we need to assess as individuals but I know more and more we are buying for value and Quality. You can say what you will about Buick being number one. They are ugly and good and ugly don’t sell. I love my Lexus and after visiting the Toyota plant I know it is an american car too.
I’ve been reading this blog since it first began, and I have to say that I really do respect the initiative that you’ve taken in getting personal with the fans and even the detractors.
With that said, I have to admit that GM has come a long way. You guys still have a fair bit to go, but the healing process is never as fast as we all want. I just hope you and the rest of GM stays committed to producing more high-quality products like what Cadillac has been cooking up lately. I think of Cadillac as a beneficial disease that will hopefully spread to the rest of GM shortly. Think about it, the new Cadillac style, performance and refinement is truly infectious. Even those who don’t particularly like the cars, favoring BMWs and Audis instead, have to admit that they’re very respectable cars.
And that’s where I think the main issue lies, GM needs to gain back the respect it lost during the “dark ages”. And considering how the media vultures prey on even the tiniest of domestic recalls, like you said, this is going to be very hard.
However, I think the overall respect for GM has gone up a lot, people are acknowledging that you guys CAN build a wonderful car, and it’s beginning to have an effect.
And yes, PLEASE stop with the grey interiors. Tan, black and two-tone(tan and black!) are infinitely better options. I doubt you’ll find anyone who actually PREFERS a grey interior if faced with other options. It makes a car look low-rent, and it exaggerates interior flaws and discrepancies.
Oh, and obligatory: Bring back the Camaro!
I think it is unrealistic to expect a company to make products that will please every potential customer. It is also unrealistic to expect a company to make the best product and sell it at the cheapest price on the market. That said, I wish the 05 Corvette convertible is cheaper than the cool $60k that the sticker says.
There was a comment above about pushrod engines being old tech. Let me tell ya, there’s nothing wrong with my 5.7L V8 LS1 engine in my 99 Corvette. It may be old-tech but it still gets me about 25 mph cruising down the highway and it passed the CA smog test just fine last year.
I do like the direction GM is heading. I love all the new Caddy’s. I’m actually jealous that the CTS-V got a better (LS6) engine than my car! I love the new Vette, and although I’m not in the market for the midsize or compact cars I do see an improving trend in GM products.
Changing the public’s perception is a long term investment. Mr. Lutz, you’ve definitely got it started and I hope you get to see some solid results before your reign is over.
Mr. Lutz,
I wholeheartedly support the direction you are attempting to take GM in general and Pontiac specifically. I have been behind the wheels of most brands of cars, or at least a representation (e.g. Honda Accord but not Acura Legend) What amazes me as an owner of GM products since 1973, and several of which I consider to be world class competitors of their time is the utter lack of comparison of these cars to their peers by the media. My personal examples within Pontiac included a 6000STE, a Bonneville SSEi, and 2 Grand Prix GTP’s. I read the reviews and the head to head comparisons and every time the mags pick a $40k ‘import’ sedan as best in class when they don’t even consider the $25k top notch import beaters in our own backyard. If it takes staying out of the limelight to give us world class sporting performance in a family sedan( re GXP and Comp G) along with 30 mpg on the highway at 75mph, then I say keep ‘em hidden from the media and keep ‘em coming. Once in a while, though, it would be nice to be able to read where GM took on the world and won.
HUMMER
It REALLY needs to sound more “Throaty”! Put some Glass Pax on that thing! That big Vehicle makes no sound sitting next to you. It should have a bit of a Rumble to it. Females are buying it and they want to sit up high and Feel Y Hear the Macho of it … Guys do too. I understand you are putting a Diesel in it … let’s hear it … that will help!
It would compete well with the “truck” that International now has on the road.
“GM plans to equip every one of its vehicles with OnStar”
OnStar is fine if you want it. I have no use for it. I will never subscribe to it. If GM does this, and does not make an OnStar DELETE option available if I order a vehicle, that will end my 35+ years of GM buying.
tdgoodwin, you talk about lack of style in GM cars and then you bought a Lexus SC? The thing looks like a jellybean! Easily the most homely roadster on the market. As far as OnStar goes, I don’t fear it, I don’t live in constant worry that black helicopters are chasing me and that we’ll end up living in an Orwellian society … but it’s a very transparent attempt by GM to simply make money on OnStar subscriptions, nothing more nothing less. Standard stability control is an outstanding move … but I believe OnStar should remain optional on all GM vehicles. If we want to talk about safety for safety’s sake, let’s go with standard side curtain airbags instead.
A View From the Top
It is not, as I feared it might be, and endless stream of marketing drivel. (I work with marketing people 40+ hours a week and I know marketing drivel when I see it.)
Mr Lutz,
I attended the GM Auto Show in Motion, and left unimpressed with all of the GM products I had been considering. I thought the interior of the GTO was very nice, but the exterior left a lot to be desired. I even had the thought looking at it with all othe the other Pontiac products, “that will look terrible when they add the extra set of nostrils n the hood” the next week I saw the pictures of the higher HP 05 models.. that’s thought 1, I gave you guys a fair share, and the main problem is not meeting all the wants I have for a car.
An earlier poster said GM can’t provide a car for everyone. I think if they cannot no one can. You make more cars than anybody, and should be able to compete in markets that don’t involve a v-8 engine.
What I want is a car that seats 4, me, my wife and my two kids and their car seats. I want it to be sporty and fun to drive, and I would like it to have a convertible option. The Best option I have found from GM is a 69 Camaro.
The G6 would be interesting if it were 10,000 cheaper, and it really can’t compete with the style of the new Mustang. I test drove a 2 year old 9-3 Saab convertible. I don’t think I even got off the lot before I knew that was not a good idea.
So use that for what it’s worth.
I never thought that I would ever drive an American car. My first car was a Nissan and then I drove an Acura. But due to the ability to get a great deal on a GM car through a family member I had no choice, but to suck it up, save the money and pick a car.
This was a year ago that I had to make this decision and with what I wanted to spend I had very few choices. And considering how many manufacturers there are that is very frustrating. But I ended up getting the Grand Am and have been very pleased. If not shocked at how much I like the car. And know I am already looking at the new cars that are about to come out and I am actually getting excited about getting a GM car.
So GM might not be there yet, but I commend Mr. Lutz on taking a stagnant company and generating some exciting new vehicles. I look forward to my next GM car and all of the exciting new concepts that Mr. Lutz continues to create.
I can’t believe some of the complaints I’m reading here, nor the logic being espoused. Word of mouth is powerful, but it is UNRELIABLE. You or a friend may have had a bad experience with the quality or reliability of a GM product, but that by itself is meaningless. Plenty of other people have had bad experiences with Toyotas and Hondas (yes, it’s true). That’s why surveys of larger numbers of owners such as the JDPA IQS are important. The Buick Century/Regal has consistently been among the best quality premium midsize sedans for years, while the Grand Am, Malibu and Alero have battled for the top Entry Midsize. It’s been years since Accord or Camry have even placed. The only Toyotas to consistently lead their segments all have Lexus badges. Aside from Corolla, Toyota has been struggling just to place, and Hondas are even harder to find. If yopu think Honda and Toyota owners are just more critical check the NHTSA’s online records of service bulletins – Camry and Accord have had far more than Malibu.
As for the dealer experience Honda, Lexus and Infiniti are the only Japanese brands with better than average customer service, and all GM brand dealers except Pontiac have better service than Honda. If your local dealer is an exception, it should be easy to find one that’s better. Toyota falls way below the industry average. Toyota says with all their sales growth dealers can’t keep up with all the cars that need to come in for service, but the higher number of Technical Service Bulletins can’t help.
How do American-built Toyota’s make a Japanese-built Lexus an “American” car? Do US-built Z4s, X5s and Mercedes M-Class SUVs make all BMWs and Mercedes American too? If you’re really concerned about where your car is built, check under the hood – more Corollas and Camrys are coming from Japan to supplement American production.
Residual value is not a measure of value, quality or reliability, it’s a measure of expected demand. GM has lower resale because rebates on new models and overproduction reduce the market for used cars and reduce perceived value. Toyotas and Hondas are more expensive to start with, have lower rebates, and production has been lagging demand, increasing the market for cheaper used models. A warning here – Honda is having increasing trouble shifting Accords and Civics, with increased rebates having little effect. As a result actual resale may not be as good as expected for both new and older models.
One thing everyone should realize about GM and the Big-3 is that the decision makers don’t own the product! Even worse, they don’t understand the product. They get new cars every two months, free gas, free insurance. If it dies, they get another one in an hour. They never experience the terror of having a month’s after-tax spending money GONE because of car repairs. They don’t get to banter back and forth with the dealer and the factory rep, and hear all the “no problem found,” the “it’s within specs,” or better yet, “they all do that.” They don’t experience the joy of taking their car back to the dealer 10 times for the same problem. They don’t pay the $75 to $100 per hour labor rates for Mr. Goodwrench, and praying to God that they can even ‘find and fix the problem.’ … All that stuff is for the little people like you and me; that’s our life, not their life. These “execs” look at their charts and plots, all those lines, numbers, and squiggles, and they have a group-consensus to justify why everything’s not really that bad. And for them, it’s NEVER really ‘that bad.’ They get paid high, six-figure salaries, unreal benefits, and they never get fired for low performance or bad decisions; everyone in the family drives new cars, in warranty. Woo-Hoo! For years, auto owners have screamed what they didn’t like about their cars, but to the execs, it still only matters if “JD Power” says it does. These “execs” are SO detached from the reality of what real people go through, and therefore, what really matters. “Hey, our cars really aren’t the problem, it’s the public perception of our cars! That darn public! They have such a bad attitude!”
Buy American?! Is that tired, old thing really still around?
Are these people really suggesting that I should give my money to the Big-3, who are famous for their arrogance, elitism, excessive pay, and who take the corporate profits from MY purchase and panic-buy every foreign auto brand they could find for the last 30 years? Who build my car in Mexico? Who lied to us all those years, saying their cars were better? Who are now FORCING their suppliers to outsource to China and India, or else? This is buying American? That… isn’t even the “American Way.”
I would love to ‘Buy American,’ in fact, I would pay extra for it (assuming a quality product and good value, of course… funny, why do I need to add that?). Sadly, there are no more American auto companies. There only are shells of the original American auto companies, run by nervous, ‘over their head’ ladder-climbers, whose last-gasp, career-strategic, marketing gimmick is “Buy American.”
You KNOW what I mean. At classic car shows, we all walk around and remember not only our past with these cars and all the fun times, but we remember when America could get the job done, with factories humming right here.
GM Auto Marketing: Find Your Style (Wife, Girlfriend, Mistress)
Driving back to SFO recently, I noticed this GM (General Motors) billboard. In essence, the message to Northern California drivers bound either for SFO or their jobs on the Peninsula or in Silicon Valley was:A Chevy SSR is for…
As someone said, there are lies, damned lies and statistics. Even if we could have complete faith in these statistics, it is going to take time for people to feel comfortable with GM products. It’s like a lot of other things: If trust is lost or damaged, it takes time for it to be restored.
The reliability question aside for a moment, much as I take Consumer Reports with a grain of salt, one does have to wonder when CR, the enthusiast magazines and online sites are tepid about the G6 and other GM offerings. If the cars aren’t competitive in build quality, ride, handling, etc., the reliability is not going to matter so much.
As for published information about reliability, do you know of carsurvey.org? Great site. People relate their experiences about their cars. There are some people there who are happy with their GM vehicles and there are a lot of people there who have been unhappy with their GM vehicles. There are far more unhappy GM drivers than there are unhappy Toyota, Mazda and Nissan drivers.
As someone above said, reliability at the 3-year mark doesn’t mean much. You and other car execs may not like people of my ilk as we relate to your bottom lines, but I tend to buy lightly used cars and drive them for several years. My ‘95 Ford Probe is doing quite well as it approaches 180,000 miles. If it doesn’t have a meltdown or start breaking down regularly, I don’t care if it goes to 250,000 miles; I’ll keep driving it, getting 25 mpg around town, 35 mpg on the highway.
People like me aside, when anyone is talking about reliability, most people want to know about several years, not three. If nothing else, I think there is a fairly expansive “let’s see how the ‘02, ‘03, ‘04, ‘05 models are doing in 2010 and beyond” perspective. Those who tend not to keep their cars for several years are more are usually savvy enough to be aware of resale values.
As for me, realistically, I’m hoping for 1-2 years more of useful life out of my probe. So let’s say I’m looking for something in ‘06. Something along the lines of a G6 would appeal to me in terms of its size, performance, cost, fuel economy, etc. Even if all the publications were raving about it, I don’t feel like I will have seen enough about its reliability to be comfortable buying it.
I say that in part because my mother has a late-’90s Cutlass with about 1/3 the miles I have on my Probe and outside of wear-and-tear items, she has had more problems with her car than I have with mine.
As someone above said, I think there is something to the notion that car executives are probably too far removed from the experience of driving their products the way average people do–owning them for at least a few years to get a genuine sense of the experience for good and ill–and I think that experience would be invaluable.
Here’s an idea. Make a list of the top, say, 50 GM execs. Put the names of the same number of GM cars on pieces of paper and put them in a hat. Draw them at random and match them with names on the list. Those execs drive those cars on a daily basis for at least 5 years. They get them serviced at dealers without preferential treatment because they are GM execs. (Obviously there would have to be exceptions if, say, someone with back or knee problems couldn’t easily get in and out of a Corvette or a Solstice, but you get the idea.)
Okay, enough prattling on. To conclude, I think the points are clear: We’re open-minded and nobody wants to see GM struggle, lose market share and such, but we need to see more. It will take more time. I am reminded of a friend’s line about dating: “anyone can look good for 6 months.”
It seems some people can’t handle the truth. That’s not unusual. Whatever the topic, it’s ususally futile to counter someone’s belief system with the truth. When a belief system is based on cynicism and negativity, it is almost impossible to change. If something proves faulty, the enthusiast will try something different, but the critic will just keep banging their head against the wall.
Auto execs do get fired, more often than line workers. They don’t often call it that because it’s bad PR. More often they’re “encouraged to leave.” Since auto execs are relatively underpaid, they stay in the industry because they love it.
Auto companies listen to JD Power and other surveys because they collect the views of a large number of owners, not just a few loudmouths – thousands of your neighbours and workmates. Witness the relentless decrease in problems per vehicle as GM, Honda and Toyota drive the industry average lower.
We are all looking at cars with infinite detail. … Face it, the vast majority of buyers want a car that is reliable, perceived as a good value, gets good mileage, hauls their stuff (kids and/or gear) and starts in the morning. HP and torque don’t matter. A 5 speed vs. a 4 speed does not matter. They don’t know what push-rod or fuel injection is.
I have a coffee maker and toaster at home. As long as my coffee is hot and toast is good then I am happy. I don’t know if my Braun heats to a higher temperature then the competing Mr. Coffee, or if my toaster has more heating elements per square inch then the one that my neighbor has. Like the toaster and coffee maker, the car is an APPLIANCE.
Then there’s us car nuts. We can fill blogs with details comparing the G6 with an Accord or a Vette with a Porsche. GM (or anyone else) has to please both groups.
GM’s issue is sliding sales numbers…the F-Series truck is No. 1 in truck sales, the Accord and Camry are No. 1 in car sales. GM was king, and would like to be king again.
Mr. Lutz is trying his best…and we cannot expect him or anyone else to turn a company and its established culture around in one or two years. I am sure he will tell you that his plan is for the next decade, not the next year.
Best of luck… and count on us to tell when things are good AND when they are not!
I am an American writing from London.
Is Saab dead – or is it just on a respirator? As a three-time owner — as well as stacks of other GM cars in my family over the years — I am concerned. Mr. Lutz’s comments about Saab have been very robust…until lately. The most recent comments from within GM about Saab owners being largely college professors and that there weren’t enough of them was an alarming change. Previously, the party line was that Saab was a great brand because its customers were highly educated and sophisticated. Perhaps the two are the same but the change in tone is notable.
Sadly, the 9-2X has not been a success and we all await the reception to the 9-7. For the record, I am not one of the loyal Saab customers who are horrified by the ‘cross-breeding’ that gave us these two models. The 9-2x seems like a more sophisticated version of the WRX and Saab’s foray into 4WD is long overdue. Subaru and Saab seem like good partners. I had reservations about the 9-7 — I hate SUVs generally — but it looks like a nice transformation. Not in the same class as the XC-90 but more on that below. But now what? The rumblings about plant closings in Sweden and a top Ford exec told me that the word on the street is Saab’s dead. Wow!
What happened? I know the ownership struggle nearly killed the company years ago and money was pouring down the drain while Rome burned. Meanwhile cool cars like the Vauxhall VX220 are wasted on, well, Vauxhall, which has zero brand attributes or, really anything to gain from such a car. Aside from the fact that the car uses a Saab engine, can you imagine how much more receptive the market would have been to a Saab Sonnet 4?
More disturbing is Volvo. Cool and Volvo were chalk and cheese as they say here – or oil and water for the uninitiated, but man, Ford looks to have pulled it off. The company that, aside from the 1800 series, worked from the cinder block school of design is now Bang and Olufsen. How did this happen? Was Ford just lucky to turn a boring tree-hugging brand into a pretty exciting contemporary brand? And about Jaguar and Aston? Is this all timing?
How can Saab be so late to 4WD? How can a company that created the original 900 series (and the original 96 for that matter) be so late creating a car that has more versatile space usage? Why could it not build on the Swiss Army Knife/Victorinox comparisons it clearly wants the consumer to make via the Saab accessories? Are Saabs not the original life-style vehicles? The heritage was so ripe for mining these things for SUVs or even today’s existing models. But they haven’t. There was such hope and expectation when Michael Maurer joined and also Mr. Lutz’s comments only recently. But now, no Maurer, and too many college professors. Uh, Oh.
By the way, I am not a college professor. I am a venture capitalist, so I understand the need to make money for the stockholders. But I also sold my Mercedes E class wagon to buy a Saab. And I love my car. The service is better. The staff are better…but I smell fear. I think you guys are giving up and you haven’t really tried yet. I know lots of money has been blown. But I stand by my comment. Money has been wasted but not building and extending the brand. It has been spent putting fires out. It’s all money but it’s sad that what was a fantastic opportunity now seems relegated to defeat.
I am guessing this doesn’t even belong here or will get deleted. I have ENORMOUS respect for Mr. Lutz and once I heard about his blog decided to give it a shot.
Thanks.
OnStar on Everything
Ed in Dallas, et al,
You won’t like OnStar until you are in the wrong place at the wrong time and have a flat tire and are sweating profusly needing help – quick! Or, even worse, your wife or daughter is. Onstar Road Service is there AND IT IS FREE! Or you have just been in a collision in the middle of nowhere in the middle of the night and not alert to get help (or your wife or daughter)…OnStar is there at the first hint of impact.
Go to OnStar.com and take a good look at the services that you get — we are THERE 24 hours a day EVERY DAY! Take a look before you pooh pooh the 21st Century of services.
AND the first year is FREE!
A blog with the legendary Bob Lutz – what a great idea. More of this kind of thinking on GM’s cars will get you more customers.
My family drove American cars for many years until the late 1990s. Nearly all of these were GM products and most were quite reliable. My last two GM cars were Saturns. My 1992 Saturn, one of the first in Canada, was the best car I have ever owned while the replacement 2001 model had far more quality problem – though still a good little car. Sadly the appearance and perceived quality of the replacement ION was appalling and drove me to a Honda. Meanwhile my wife’s first car was a Buick, which lived in the shop – it was replaced with a Toyota and she will never consider another GM.
Because of my familiarity with your cars, I will probably always cross-shop GM products, but perceptions are important. Unfortunately driving an American says you bought a less capable car. It is not considered an intelligent choice – third tier Japanese companies like Mitsubishi face the same perception problem. I really do believe GM has turned the corner on quality but what about interior, overall refinement, design, powertrain technology. Yes today’s GM cars are better but they are not as good as the middle of the pack, let alone the leaders. Of the Big 3, I really think GM has a shot at coming back in the perception department – just keep the troops focused Mr. Lutz and again thanks for this blog.
My first car was a Vega, which I actually loved, despite having to sandblast and repaint the window frames every two years (not to mention going through two engines before I put a Buick V6 in it).
I was also gullible enough to be ‘taken’ on a used Cavalier for my second car (turned out the car had been badly wrecked and repaired, something which the Chevy dealer didn’t bother to point out when I bought the car).
Years later, I drive a TDI VW New Beetle (that gets 48 MPG) and the wife drives a ‘98 Caravan (that gets 20) which is pushing 140K miles (i.e., we’re not too long for a replacement).
Both vehicles have great styling, inside and out. The VW has had way too many build quality issues, and the cupholders are non-starters, but the drivetrain and mileage literally can’t be beat by any other make. I’d buy another ‘98 Caravan if they still made them (the newer models are a step backwards in styling and ergonomics IMO).
The few times I’ve rented a Chevy product, I’ve been extremely underwhelmed. Seats are uncomfortable, styling is bland, ergonomics, fit and finish all scream “COST REDUCTION!” etc. The one exception was a new Malibu we rented recently, which “wasn’t quite as bad” as I remembered from my last GM rental.
When the Caravan reaches its end, I may actually go look at the Malibu Maxx (we have a son who plays cello and need the cargo room). Offer a Maxx with decent ergonomics and interior styling, with a quiet diesel that gets ~40 MPG, and I’d buy it in a “heartbeat…”
You listening, Bob?
es
It’s great that GM has cars/trucks that get top scores in certain ratings, but we’re looking for vehicles that are at the top of their class not in just one category, but in all of them: appearance, performance, braking, safety, reliability, etc. (or at least more than just one). I’m not certain GM has that at the moment.
Like everyone else reading this, I’m sure, I’m a big fan of GM (driving my 4th Grand Prix in 6 years) and I anxiously anticipate the day when I open a car magazine and see a GM car rated a solid #1 in a certain test. I don’t recall seeing that in a while, and I hope that day will come. I continue to support GM and hope to be driving your cars for as long as I live. I would love to see GM stop overpricing the cars and compensating with many thousands in incentives…those MSPR’s don’t leave a good impression.
Instead, offer OnStar subscription for the duration of the warranty… that’s only $400 on top of what’s already offered, which is nothing compared to some rebates that are offered. Sorry…getting a little sidetracked. Thanks for everything you’re doing for GM, Mr. Lutz. We have great faith in you.
Mr. Lutz:
I understand GM has been steadily losing market share, yet it just introduced new minivans which seem dated compared to the best in class. This is not just my opinion but that of publications as varied as the Detroit News and Consumer Reports. It seems like the GM minivans could eventually become great candidates for $5,000 rebates.
Offering such mediocre vehicles in an environment of brutal market competition could result in GM losing more market share, and the potential loss of thousands of American jobs at GM and its suppliers.
How can GM, with its vast talent and resource pool, develop mediocre vehicles like these minivans, especially for high volume market segments?
Can GM really afford, with its market share shrinking, to develop and sell vehicles that are NOT the best in class?
Simple:
Sit in a Malibu.
Sit in an Accord.
Choose the better car.
Honda wins.
I’ve driven both.
This isn’t because I have a bias or given into laziness when thinking. The Honda is better. Bob, you know it, too.
You guys are getting better. Nevertheless, its time for some clear solid PUBLIC wins. Second place finishes aren’t gonna give you fame unless you’re a Buffalo Bills fan.
The Business Blogging Field Guide, Part 7: The CEO Blog
Ah, the CEO Blog. Such the conundrum. A great opportunity…here is a means for an organization’s leader to connect and communicate directly with the market. At the same time, a great challenge…if done poorly, a CEO Blog can be worse
I think there are tangible and intangible reasons why people percieve that foreign vehicles to have greater quality and asthetics. The fit and finish of a foreign vehicle is consistently better than American-made vehicles, at least up until the recent past. Also, the historical past of American manafacturers to refit and sell a lower grade vehicle as an upscale model has tarnished their image, and that will take sometime to overcome. They also have to buy back every Dodge van that is on the road belching smoke with peeling paint — they don’t bode well for the perception of quality within an American vehicle.
Mr Lutz:
Hello from Colombia. I know it`s a very small market but GM is doing a good job here as the leader. I`m a GM fan having had 10 GM cars in last 11 years. All of them very good. As you may know, we don`t have American cars since Chevrolets come from Suzuki, Opel and Daewoo.
All of us, the GM and Lutz fans, are very excited thanks to what you are doing. I know it`s not a easy task, but we`ll support you and your team, not only with our words but actually buying more GM cars.
Finally, I drive an Astra 2004, and I can tell you that it`s a very nice car.
LER from Colombia.
Autoweek.com has the official photos of the Buick Lucerne on their Chicago Auto Show sitelet. It is the best-looking car not named Corvette or Cadillac, inside and out, that GM has released in at least 15 years. I’m 32, and am not what you’d consider Buick’s target market, but if this is where GM is heading, they are going to be just fine. Nice job.
I will handily put up a full-size Chevy truck against a Toyota or Nissan truck any day of the week. Go use them as trucks and not just commuter toys. The Toyota and Nissan just can’t hang with the pushisment.
A Chevy, Ford or Dodge will take beating and keep on going. Tow a goose neck Trailer with a backhoe on it 100 miles to a job site up and down hills with a toy truck or a Nissan. You will pull into the next “real” full-sized truck dealer and trade them in for soething that can do the job and keep doing it. Add the Duramax, Powerstroke or Cummings diesels to them and you really have a working rig that gets good MPG to considering the work your asking it to do. 17 MPG is not uncommon out of a my good friend’s powerstroke F350 Ford pulling 17 head of cattle to auction.
Reliabilty is relative. Sure we have all seen Toyota trucks last for 250,000 miles. Most of the time they look like crap and have never been driven any harder than granny drove her Caddy to the store once a week for milk and eggs. Come on down to the south were a vehicle gets used and see how long your Honda lasts. Just goes to show why there are Chevy dealers all over the place in the south and you have to drive 60 miles to find the nearest Honda dealer. Now if Chevy only made an ATV as good as Honda.
Hello Mr. Lutz,
I appreciate what you are doing here for us to communicate to you. I’ll be easy for now, because I’m hoping for an intern job this summer
.
My father is a true GM man, but sees no excuse to purchase a GM product. I feel the same way but in my own heartfelt opinion. I want the ridiculous feeling of having cubes and brute force engineering underneath me. The ability to look at almost anything that’s within reason and smoke it. All done, affordably of course. Something for the young kids, say something cheap like 15G CDN cheap. I don’t expect huge power off tap for that money, but the ability to drop in say, (heheh) a newly fab’d 6.0L LS-2. YUM!
I know I can’t see the Camaro and Firebird until at least 2017 for CAW reasons, but a car that inspires the look of the car, modernizes and aims for everyone — senior teens, young adults and adults. No stereo, No A/C, no heating, no power windows, no special looking trim, bare bones. But, has some fur and NO cheap plastic. Maybe fit and finish is a little off, who cares? (Thinking of my Dad’s WS6 T/A ‘81) With the handling of that car, power (though slow compared to today) and the repspect one receives by just owning the car is sooo worth it.
Don’t worry about quality and such, BUILD a car. Build a solid, well-engineered American car. Something that’ll start without a hitch in -50 CDN winters, something like well, your old cars. Don’t worry about trying to catch up to everyone else and forcing the “we caught up, though we haven’t” through marketing.
Worry about being the GM that once was, the GM that led the industry. I still don’t believe you have come close to the old GM nor the competition.
For once, forget the profit margin and remember the old days, add airbags, Onstar, sequential fuel injection, safety ratings. Remember that every GM vehicle must be unique, but resemble each other (not at all too much) to know it’s a GM product.
“To be the best, you have to be different” — Dr. Bose.
Different doesn’t mean what you think it is…or, as per your current products.
Oh yeah, and the basis of car design: ergonomics. Roofline, blind spots, headroom all shall not be a problem. It’s car design 101, c’mon!
Stop building cars for four-year leases and start building the cars for one million miles. Race in NASCAR with the same engines and drivetrain as what you offer. No go? Start your own race series! That would bring GM back, start to, at least. Same basic engine components, similar suspension geometry, drivetrain…gut out what you don’t need, interior dash, etc., and add safety features. None of this dimensions limits garbage. A stronger tie between what you sell will certainly prove to the consumer that the are purchasing “race proven” products.
I have so many ideas and thoughts, I’ll call you when I graduate from engineering, thank you.
The reason Buick gets such high JD Power reports are that the buyers are old and do not ANSWER the reports as the sales dept. of the dealers do it for them. Also the cars are of a 15-year-old design, so GM has had plenty of time to perfect the same old “wheel.” With little sophisticated equipment, there is little to go wrong. Plus the seniors (myself included) can’t see straight.
As for the “NEW” vans — I drove the Terrazza — felt like a 5-year-old Sienna. Way too much junk in the trunk. The leather (in a minivan with kids & dogs) and faux wood was terrible. And who knows about these vans? Only industry insiders. GM needs to have one van name and model for all its divisions. Things would be much simpler, so would ad budgets, if the money saved could be used to lower the price of the vehicle, which would attract BUYERS!
But GM needs to look around the world and bring in a real minivan that has standard feautures like the Opels, Renaults, and even Ford vans in Europe, Asia and Latin America have. Why do GM and Ford continue to
make 10-year-old vehicles IN THE U.S., while Europe gets new? The Cobalt is a newer Cavalier. Give me the new European Focus- with side airbags.
I watched an early ’80s Delta 88 lead the police on a high-speed chase on “Cops” the other night on three wheels. Is that quality or endurance?
Most of the taxi cabs in my city are GM midsize models from the ’90s. Is that quality or dependability?
Check the lots where people park who make minimum wage. You rarely see anything but older GM vehicles. Is that quality or longevity?
Yes, GM put out some duds. What car company hasn’t? But, I really feel the automotive press has greatly exaggerated many of the quality issues. Their slavish devotion to foreign iron has long been transparent and is becoming annoying.
The key is perceived quality, right? It’s beyond the product. It’s also the way the dealer treats the customer on initial acquisition of the product, and aftersales service.
You know horror stories abound about how your friend had this one problem that the dealer mistreated him over and over again. One of my friends puts it the best – at least they kissed my butt royally when I brought my BMW in. Look at why Mini Coopers with dismal quality and glitches continue to receive high customer satisfaction ratings.
I have a Cavalier and love it. It’s been great to me, and never had any issues. Go GM. They even fixed many recall issues for free, even after the car 100,000 miles.
What’s happening with Saab? It would appear that this brand is not being “exploited” to its full potential! It remains an upper scale product that has a lot of potential. Why is it so often dualed with Saturn? Regards,
Robert
What I didn’t agree with is Bob’s comments regarding “quality”. I know he’ll be loyal to the end for his own brand (as he should be) but I don’t think he’s being completely honest either. First off, he says…
http://www.andrewpryor.com/index.php?p=77
Dear Mr. Lutz:
It is good to see that you are still kicking at GM. Some say that perception lags reality by several years, and that GM is now “turning a corner.” Sadly, we’ve been hearing that ever since the 1973 oil crisis.
Others say that media bias is to blame for GM’s poor corporate performance. It is noteworthy that GM spends hundreds of millions of dollars on advertising, yet fails to extoll any virtues of its products. Most of the GM’s TV ads seem geared solely to appeal to the reptilian brain of males in their twenties, and say nothing about the fuel economy, longevity, or other attributes of their products. One can then only assume that they are still hiding behind shoddy products, hoping that people will continue to buy them due to the inertia of their family’s buying habits. That is no way to survive in today’s dog-eat-dog world.
I want to buy an efficient small truck that is built to last. My 1982 Nissan was still getting 34 MPG (highway) and was running fine at 300,000 miles when I gave it to a friend, so that I could buy American. I opted to help support my UAW relatives by buying an S-10, but my experience of having GM abandon me with a loser was a horror that I wouldn’t wish on anybody.
Please do what you can to bring GM back to its former greatness. I don’t need a huge barn on wheels or to go three times the speed limit or to impress others, I just need it to be efficient and reliable. Why can’t GM do just that for me and others?
Thanks — Mark
I just listened NPR and David Champion from Consumer Reports, commenting on GM and Ford’s recent recalls. With his vast experience at Consumer Reports, Land Rover and Nissan it was easy to see why he forgot to bring up the 1/2 million cars recalled by Honda earlier this year (hopefully you are noting my sarcasm here).
I’m still not sure why people feel that foreign is better. For every Japanese car that you say runs 300,000 miles, I’ll find an American car owner in the same boat. For every American car with a problem, I’ll find you a Japanese car in the same boat! With that said, all of you who think the Japanese are creating jobs and selling cars over here to benefit the U.S., you really need to open your eyes. They may be built and sold (some even designed) by Americans, but the profits go right back to Japan. I’m pretty sure the Japanese aren’t concerned about our economy much past the point that it would adversely affect our purchasing their vehicles. One in ten jobs in the U.S. can be linked to the auto industry. Whatever happened to being loyal?
You ask us to take a test drive and compare GM’s products to the competition?
Well I tried. I want a Cadillac CTS-V. I visited my local Cadillac dealer last week and called just today to set up an appointment for a test drive.
“No test drives”, I was told. It is a “rare car” I was told. But they have four in stock if I want to buy one (without ever driving it)!
Are these people crazy?
You must know there are suspicions about the CTS-v differential and excessive wheel hop. Is anybody going to buy one of these cars without trying it first, to see if the problem is the driver or the car? Their refusal to let me drive the car only served to convince me there really is something wrong. Incredibly insulting as well.
You need to set up a select group of “car guy” dealers to handle the car. Cadillac may have some great new cars, but Cadillac dealers have not changed a bit.
Ya gotta whip em into shpae Bob!
Tom
I few of my thoughts, not necessarily in any particular order:
*I would be more interested in a diesel engines used in 1/2 ton pickups as well people haulers from econo to family to wagons than I would hybrids; those batteries seem like such a waste.
*not so interested in 300 horsepower front-drive cars as family cars, don’t know why other people are?
*not interested in cars that pretend to be trucks or SUVs
*interested in a national health care system — you have as much clout as anyone non-govt. Thought I would mention it!
To: Bob Lutz
GM Vice Chairman
Read your comments and liked your words. What about style and design? Or is that not important? Let me know and maybe I’ll switch to a GM car!
Mr. Lutz,
I second the notion that comfortable seats are important. For this driver, GM (or any maker) could get by with shallow door pockets, iffy radio controls, and most of the like if they could at least make the seats comfortable, and supportive. Please fix the seats.
In response to Tom Borzilleri’s comment above:
I am the Marketing Manager for the Cadillac V-Series. No, this is not how a dealer is supposed to treat a customer. In fact, we recommend that dealers offer extended test drives in the CTS-V so that a customer can experience every gear (including 6th), exercise the massive brakes, feel the torque, etc. We also recommend test drives over various surfaces to experience the ride quality. We suggest that dealerships design test drive circuits specifically for the model being driven. For example, the circuit one would take for an Escalade test drive should be different than that of the CTS-V, given the different characteristics. We will contact you for further information, and thank you for bringing this to our attention.
Mr. Lutz/Others,
Just a thank you for the new GTO. I currently have a 1970 and 2004 and simply love the fact that I can drive a GTO every day of the week no matter what the weather. I am more impressed every day when I step in to the wonderfully executed interior (even more so since recently HAVING to rent a Mustang for business) and then even more so when I step on the gas.
Thanks again,
“Humbler”
Lance K Hudnell
Westerville, OH
It’s not just reliability.
I had a ‘97 Saturn SC2, the car was reliable. Didn’t give me any trouble the 3 years I owned it.
BUT
It was cheap. Not just in price because it was but in everything about the car’s interior. The leather was paperthin and wore out, the turn signal lever felt like it was snapping off in my hand it had such a nasty break point, I could move the dash with my bare hands, the thing squeaked rattled and flexed when I cornered, the suspension was completely awfull the rear end would step out over man hole covers and spill my coffee, it just FELT cheap.
I drive a Mazda Protege5 and I drive exactly the same way and I don’t spill my coffee the dash is solid and feels good to the touch, it doesn’t squeak rattle or roll and the dials and switches feel pretty good in my hands.
Both cars have been a paragon of reliability. Which do you think I would buy again? It’s not just reliability, the car has to FEEL good. Every time I sit in and drive GM cars I can afford I just don’t get a good feel. There are obvious exceptions like the new Corvette and the new Caddies. I like those but I can’t afford them.
And I have to get this in, any company that could continue to build that schlock of a Cavalier for so Looooonnnnggg doesn’t deserve my money.
It never stops to amaze me: A Camry has a beautiful interior! Come on, let’s be serious. It is so bland and standard with no originality. It is to me as nice as a Maytag! The reason journalist rave about the Japanese brands has a little bit to do with the trips offshore and the second car they get for “evaluation.” They use it for the wife or the kids. When you get the trip to Japan for Toyota, as an example, it is tougher to critic the CIE, because next year, you want to go back, of course.
Another thing that tickles my curiosity is the number of subscribers from Consumer Report that praise Honda and Toyota. The results on their survey is statistically biased because only their subscribers have the privilege of answering the questionnaire. My suggestion would be for the American CIE to buy subscription for their employees and tell them to fill the questionnaire every year. How interesting the results would be….
It would also be quite enlightening to have a look at the Consumer Reports database; they have raved about Toyota and Honda since 1977 at least, so my feel is that the subscribers are mainly imports buyers for the vast majority. In a nutshell, what would be the result of a survey on President Bush’s popularity in Iraq done amongst the Iraq Herald’s subsciber?
Last, but not least, I looked at a survey from Consumer Reports; it asks if you had a serious problem with the vehicle and if yes, you tick a box, if not, you don’t write anything. Why on earth would Honda and Toyota owners send blank questionnaires (with no tick marks in the boxes) back and American cars owners send filled-up questionnaires? My point is that if the magazine does not call back the subscribers to increase the return rate (which I believe is around 10 to 15%), then the results will be strongly biased.
That is something that’s worth studying and in my view contributes very strongly to the U.S. auto industry decline.
Mr Lutz,
This blog is a great idea, and I hope you are reading my comment.
I am an average suburban dweller, commutes 10 miles to work every day, and I drive a Toyota. I don’t pick cars based on the “foreign vs. domestic” issue. The single factor I care most when it comes to cars is cost — not just cost of buying, but also maintaining & fixing it during its lifespan. Yes, I said lifespan. I don’t replace my car every few years (so I guess resale value isn’t an issue). I replace it when it starts having trouble taking me around. My idea of a perfect car is one that requires no maintenance and runs forever (yeah, everyone has different ideals).
Having said that, I agree with you on the perception part. GM is perceived to be less reliable than a Japanese import. I have that perception, too. I have no data of my own to back it up, and the only source of data I find is Consumer Reports. Honestly, I don’t have the money & time to go out and ask all the car owners to give me stats on cost of ownership. So, I take whatever data I can find, combine it with other factors like “friend & family” experience and formulate my own prediction on which car costs least. However, as an executive officer at GM, you should have stats on the cars you make – # of defects per 100 vehicles over 3/5/10 years, cost of repairing them, etc. If you don’t have them, you should go out and find it — you have the resources and it should be part of your job. Numbers don’t lie! They show you where the problems are, and if you want to dispel the perception that GM has less reliability (if it is a perception), show the numbers.
I like practical cars and I represent the car buyers that GM is losing to imports. We are not a small market either. Just look at the number of Corolla and Civic sold each year. Capturing this market takes only one factor — effectiveness in engineering and manufacturing (no brand loyalty to break on imports). But, can GM deliver that and back up their claim with data?
Bob,
I believe GM makes very high quality products, my 1988 Fiero GT is proof of that. The problem is GM doesn’t want my business, since I drive what could be the equivalent of the Cuban cigar. You built the car you wanted in Solstice, not what the typical Pontiac buyer wants — mid-engine. Can’t the Corvette handle any internal competition? After all, the C6 is riding on a chassis TODAY very similar to one the Fiero pioneered in the ’80s. Lastly a mid-engine design would help to pass those new pesky European crash standards. I prefer to buy GM, but you must build what CUSTOMERS demand.
Mr. Lutz,
After reading your comments, I am reminded of a late fall evening in 1991, on the first floor of JTE. You were striding though the west corridor without any entourage and I was headed back to the SLA lab with the SLA manager. You stopped and talked to us for 15 minutes about T300 and how the suspension design was going for the 4×4s — I didn’t even know that you knew who I was, let alone what I was doing in PreProgram.
This will seem a stretch to most outsiders to the industry, but this blog entry made me relive those 15 minutes for one reason — you called it like you saw it and the heck with anyone else’s politically correct “opinions.”
QIP, BR, LH, and of course SR, all had embodied your spirit and determination to be the best as you saw it. I see the same qualities arriving to GM products now. If the american (note the small “a”) consumer is not capable of making a rational decision on the relative merits of foriegn vehicles versus American…then we may as well all pack it in and go home. You taught us all at Chrysler to pay attention to the customer’s emotional wants, BUT to temper that knowledge with the knowledge of what those wants really mean to the corporation.
Thank you for 5 of the best years of my life in this industry.
Best regards as always,
Bob Sheaves
Mr. Lutz & Team,
I applaud you and your team for starting up this forum. It takes some guts to put yourselves open to the potential critiques & criticisms. I hope that this forum will keep you and your engineers and marketers in touch with what people really want in their vehicles.
We own a vehicle from three segments of the GM family; we have a Subaru Legacy, a Saab Aero Wagon and a Cadillac Deville. Each of these brands has improved quality much better than the general perception. I hope Cadillac continues on its great comeback, and younger people start to realize how nice they drive. Subaru is finally getting the deserved respect as one of the best driving vehicle brands period.
Saab is the enigma. I understand this brand costs you a lot of money, but it has such awesome potential. It has the coolest designs, safety, fuel economy, performance. Our 2003 Aero Wagon has been flawless and it gets glances all the time.
Whether you use other platforms or not, I hope you stay with and involve the Swedish Saab designers from the start. I hope you maintain safety & reliability, quality build & materials and up the perfomance just a notch.
I wish you luck with all the money matters with the brand.
Our next car is probably going to be an SUV or minivan. Love the SRX, like the Tahoe, like the Tribeca and waiting to see the 9-7X. We will compare those against the Armada, Pathfinder, Pilot and Honda Odyssey.
The trend today is to manage with datas. For example, some companies, including GM, use customer satisfaction index as a yardstick to predict buying intention. Saturn has one of the best CSI of the industry and Toyota, one of the worst, according to Consumer Reports (1995 thru 2002). Go figure.
Nobody buys a product based on a particular dealer or point of sales. With the leases now around 4 to 5 years, it means that you buy a car at 35 and go for another one at 40! At 40 you start to lose memory and don’t even remember who sold you the car. The staff must have been replaced three or four times since then!
Instead of sending questionnaires to customer after 60 days or a warranty repair, GM would be much better off saving this money and sending questionnaires similar to the one Consumer Reports send to their subscribers; two topics should be covered:
A) Product
B) Intention of purchase next vehicle
This way, the CIE would not have to guesstimate the repurchase intention from their customers; they would have the answers right away.
This survey, I suggest, would be most valuable in the fourth or fifth year of the lease or finance contract, not in the first 60 days. Then you would measure criticals points that interfere in the decision process:
1) Reliability
2) Cost of ownership
The reason why people buy a product nowadays has nothing to do with a smiley salesperson or wonderful looking F&I. I has to do with one thing: product. Customer Satisfaction Index is a MBA or PHD illusion from Harvard business school; good engineering, sound business practices, good products make customers buy.
It is time for U.S. CIE to go back at what they used to do best; fine and tasteful products that will stand the test of time. Just look at Harley-Davidson, Fender musical instruments, Corvette.
Survey CIEs have lived too long from U.S. manufacturers. They are the only ones who benifit from their studies with hefty profits.
Mr. Lutz,
I think this weblog is a spectacular idea. As a big fan of automobiles all around I offer this idea up. In Europe (due to the high price of fuel or “petrol” if you will) there are many vehicles offered with small diesel engines. As many of us are aware there is tremendous potential for torque and power locked inside any diesel engine whether it be duramax, power stroke, or cummins.
My proposition is this, bring the small 4 cyl. diesel engine that I saw in your powerplant line at the NAIAS into the U.S. for use in the Colorado/Canyon and any other small/midsize appropriate. I think you would be delightfully surprised at the results. Daimler Chrysler has seen this potential and supposedly will be offering their diesel in the Liberty in ‘06, I beleive.
The other upside is emissions. With everyone being pushed to “green” vehicles whether it be flex-fuel, hybrid, or hydrogen (the hyd. truck is mighty cool by the way) that these low emissions diesels, (which bypass some states emissions test all together) that get great gas mileage, have a staggering amount of horsepower locked inside them (new exh, reflash ecu, nitrous, propane) could really take off and launch the Colarado/Canyon to the level the S-10 was at.
On a side note (as mentioned by a previous poster) the price of the Colorado/Canyon really needs to come back down to the range of the S-10/Sonoma, that was one of the most appealing parts of it.
Bob:
GM’s newly introduced cars over the last couple of years are much improved. It is gratifying to see Cadillac is bringing out world class RWD cars and that Pontiac brought out the GTO. I am looking forward to the vehicles GM will produce from its affordable RWD platform, which is approved and under development. GM has so many divisions and car lines it makes sense to offer FWD, RWD, and AWD to differentiate your products and to fulfill Alfred Sloan’s goal of offering a car for every purpose and purse.
One area GM does not exploit enough is its superior JD Powers dealership experience ratings. Saturn does a good job of making the public aware of this, but GM’s other divisions do not exploit their superior dealership experience ratings relative to the competition, particularly Toyota.
GM is doing a better job taking advantage of its heritage. An integral part of Cadillac’s revival was drawing from its heritage. This is a strength GM’s other divisions should take better advantage of, in particular Chevrolet. One way to judge a car’s worth is its longterm collectability. Judging cars in this way, GM is second to none and the Japanese are particularly weak. How many Japanese collector cars are there? Not many.
Respectfully,
EMV
I am going to make this short and sweet. Firstly, GM is really lousy to me. And I own 2 GM vehicles, and never again.
When I think of “quality”, I think of CRASH TEST safety. Sure, all GM vehicles get 5 stars on a frontal full end collision, – but what about independent studies? What about frontal-offset crashes? These kinds of crashes, the frontal offset crash, is the most commmon and most serious types of crashes – yet I have sesen no improvement with GM’s models. These are the most common crashes and everything from a GMC Safari to a Pontiac Montana to a Chevrolet Cavalier is like driving a paper bag – they all get POOR on the International Institute for Highway Safety (www.iihs.org).
Take a look for yourself, as I would not call GM’s product “quality”.
-Justin
Mr. Lutz, my dear Mr. Lutz!
Will all respect, what you say, however heartfelt, proves that you still don’t get it. I don’t care that much about J.D. Power, Consumer Reports, or the automotive press. If I did, I certainly wouldn’t be a Volkswagen Jetta owner. Volkswagen is actually near the bottom in intial quality by J.D. Powers’ yardsticks. J.D. Powers – and you – miss the point entirely about why I keep going back to Volkswagen, and why millions of others besides me are still staying away from GM products despite your considerable and certainly laudable improvements in basic reliability and build quality.
I am looking to replace my fifth VW, and like every time, I don’t just go back and buy another one, I look at the competition, both domestic and foreign. I was intrigued by the new Pontiac G6 because it’s the first GM car in ages with styling that I find appealing. But after sitting in it, and even more so after driving it, I walked away shaking my head.
The seats look good, but no matter how I tried, I just couldn’t get comfortable – 6-way power seats and every one of them WRONG! The V-6 had enough power, but it sounded and felt coarse. It had lots of grip on the road, but the steering just didn’t feel right – too light, too numb, too unpredictable. In short, while all the performance numbers were OK – admittedly better than OK – the car just wasn’t that pleasing to drive. And if I am not pleased with it brand-new, I sure as heck won’t be pleased with it 3 years deep into the payment book!
By contrast, the new Jetta I am considering has genuine Recarro bucket seats – not cheap Recarro-look knock-offs. I know because the seats’ labels said “Recarro” and my butt said “Recarro” when I sat in them -I made one minor little tweak and they were PERFECT – like they were made from a custom molding of my own personal posterior. If VW can offer this level of comfort and quality in a seat for a car that sells for much less than 30 grand, why can’t you?
And the 1.8L turbo four-banger felt smoother, quieter, torquier, more responsive and more generally refined than your V-6. My current Jetta’s VR-6, after 5 years and 60,000 miles remains buttery-smooth and powerful. Your V-6’s are reliable but agricultural by comparison.
Speaking of V-6’s, why does GM offer NINE different V-6’s in its various lines when just about everyone else can get by with two or three? And if GM doesn’t think ANY of its own NINE V-6’s is good enough for the Saturn VUE (The Saturn VUE V-6 is supplied by Honda.), why should I think any of them is good enough for me?
And why does GM feel that good handling must always be at the expense of a smooth and quiet ride? Why can’t you match even the cheapest German iron in this regard? My Jetta, to say nothing of any BMW, Audi or Benz, (or Honda or Toyota or Nissan or Mazda for that matter) handles smoothly and predictably without punishing my kidneys.
Lastly, most GM cars in Wisconsin don’t hold up to the megatons of road salt poured on this state’s roads every winter. Granted, this is a severe test, but my previous VW Golf was rust-free after 10 years in this climate and my current one remains rust-free with paint that has retained its depth and luster. My observations of others’ GM products gives me no confidence that mine wouldn’t just start oxidizing and bio-degrading after the warranty expires.
While I was impressed with the finish of the G-6 I drove, I don’t have any confidence, based on past GM experience and reputation, that the car would remain as tight and solid and rattle-free as my old VW still is. Long-term quality, to me, is not just about how many things start falling off after three years – it’s about what does it look like and feel like five, six or even TEN years down the road and how much do I still enjoy driving it.
GM cars still just don’t have the subtleties right. It isn’t just about fits and finishes, J.D. Power quality and reliability scores, skidpad and 0-60 numbers. If GM really can’t tell the difference between a $40,000 Cadillac and a $40,000 Benz or Lexus, believe me, there are many of us out here who can and that is the crux of GM’s problem.
The tragedy is that I think the engineers and product people at GM know how to build a great car, but by the time it all gets filtered through the focus groups, the bean counters, the marketing department and Mr. Lutz and God only know how many layers of GM bureaucracy, the end product that I get to buy is compromised, adulterated, nickeled-and-dimed to mediocrity.
Excellent thread on GM’s undeserved rep for lower quality. For example, the Malibu’s got better quality than the Camry for 2004.
Link:
http://forums.gminsidenews.com/showthread.php?threadid=11311
Excerpt:
“I compared the quality records of the 2004 Chevrolet Malibu against the 2004 Toyota Camry. The comparison includes all styles of each vehicle, no specific model line. According to the NHTSA for the 2004 model year the Toyota Camry has had 27 Service Bulletins. Now, compare that to the Chevrolet Malibu’s 14. Interesting eh?”
The upshot is that GM’s doing better, or Toyota worse, than people expect.
I have a solution to GM’s sales problems and perceived quality problems: give us the same warranty that Hyundai gives their cars!
A 10-year powertrain warranty and 5year front to back warranty will get people into your products faster than any rebate would.
And…you won’t need the rebates anymore. Just give us a long warranty and low interest rates and GM would sell like crazy!
Mr. Lutz,
I have to agree that GM gets a bad rap on the quality issue. But when people get burned on something as expensive as a car/truck, it takes a long time to forget. I still get irritated about the mega problems that I have on my ‘96 Chevy Monte Carlo and the fewer but also irritating problems on my ‘02 Pontiac.
The newest batch of models that GM is churning out seems to be much improved. However, it will take a long time to win non-GM owners over. IT TAKES TIME. GM’s only hope in the meantime to keep marketshare is to retain current GM buyers. However, you guys are doing a poor job of that due to shedding employees/outsourcing to China like crazy.
Look at the thousands of jobs GM has eliminated over the past 7 or 8 years. Those people were pretty much guaranteed GM loyalists AND they had the income to frequently purchase new vehicles. Those people are going to buy Toyotas not because of a perceived better quality, but because Toyota is building new plants in the states and offering jobs.
Think about it!
I recently visited a Toyota dealership, where the service manager is one of my friends. I took a ride in a Sienna, just as curiosity. It had a rattle in the door, one at the back, and the heather motor was noisy. When we returned to the store, one Corolla had the dash panel removed; it seems that rattles are much more common than what it used to be at Toyota. In fact, they even have a trim man full time.
If you go at Edmunds.com, you will also notice some people complaining about rattles in their Camry. It seems, for a reason, that a CIE can’t grow without falling in the trap of profitability, cost saving and so on, Toyota included.
As far as resale value, it does not really matter; what you get at the end, you paid up front at the initial sale.
The ownership cost, the new buzz word around, is not greater with a U.S. or Japanese car. Come to think of it, you can buy a SV6, with an extended warranty, for less money then a Sienna. When you will sell the van, the total amount spent (depreciation maintenance, repairs) will roughly be about the same, plus or minus $500.00. Do the calculation if you do not believe it. Plus, in a lot of categories, you get more car for the same $$$. You can get a Cobalt for less money than a Toyota Echo almost stripped to the bone (de-contenting is also a Japanese custom).
Food for thoughts.
Mr. Lutz,
I have been working in the automotive industry for a while so I had a chance to review the 2003 J.D Power report. One thing I noticed that GM cars and trucks have improved in quality overall. However, major complaints were mostly about the brake and handling systems. I know many people, including myself, has brake-related issues during the first couple years.
Do you plan to do anything about it to improve the situation?
Sir,
It is great to see that the Tahoe, Yukon and Suburban clearly blow away all the other competition, but is there any thoughts on discontinuing the GMC Yukon and Yukon XL so that there is less competition between brands and just promote the Chevrolet Tahoe and Suburban?
The annual auto issue of Consumer Reports is out. Don’t bother buying it. I will make a brief summary (which in fact is the same summary since 1978) . Honda and Toyota are great and then, the rest of the UNIVERSE. The Element has a choppy ride, bad visibility, is noisy, (ugly like the austrich in Bugs Bunny) but recommended. Same for the Scion brand. The Echo has a cheap interior, the cluster (center of the dash) takes some getting used to (WORDS FROM THE MAGAZINE, NOT ME) and is recommended. The comment on the Saturn Ion, which has the same cluster, is that you have to take your eyes off the road to read the instrument panel. The Grand Prix has a much better than average reliability but is a mediocre car, so they say.
It boils down to this: an average is constructed with statistical datas spreaded all over the map . When you sum them all up, divide by the number of respondants, you get an average. I would suggest that the US cie sue consumer reports to prohibit them from rating or posting ratings on their vehicles. Being removed from the database, it would appear very clearly that there is an evident positive bias toward Honda and Toyota, no matter what they build. The Element and the square Scion are a living proof of this theory. Put a Ford or Chev bow tie on those vehicle and they would get crucified in the medias.
Did GM ever consider part of the marketshare loss belongs to the GM Dealers?
There was an editorial in the local newspaper that was titled “They just don’t make car salesmen like they used to.” Once, their job was to make sure that you and your family got put in the “right” vehicle for you. They knew their product line inside and out. The offered a personal touch. It is not like that anymore. It is strictly a business deal and once the papers are signed you are on your own. You feel like they are doing you a favor by selling you one of their vehicles?
Maybe Detroit needs to focus on the dealership experience. GM can build great vehicles – but they won’t always sell themselves.
diane
The recent GM “autofair” I attended proved GM cars are much better than before!
But as last poster said, the GM dealership experience needs work. I had a very unpleasant experience buying my 2004 Malibu and the service has been extremely hit and miss. Please remember we own these cars A LONG TIME, and if we get better treatment from an independent service shop vs. your own dealers, will it surprise you if we avoid your dealers? Let alone buy another vehicle from them?
Toyota and Honda dealers now mirror the “bad american dealer” model. They’ve offered you a chance to surpass them !! Will GM be up to it?
On March 2, “Dave” wrote:
_____________________
“Excellent thread on GM’s undeserved rep for lower quality. For example, the Malibu’s got better quality than the Camry for 2004.
Link:
http://forums.gminsidenews.com/showthread.php?threadid=11311
Excerpt:
‘I compared the quality records of the 2004 Chevrolet Malibu against the 2004 Toyota Camry… the Toyota Camry has had 27 Service Bulletins. Now, compare that to the Chevrolet Malibu’s 14. Interesting eh?’
The upshot is that GM’s doing better, or Toyota worse, than people expect.”
______________________
Yes Dave, but like Mr. Lutz, you miss the point. DRIVE a Camry, THEN drive a Malibu. The Camry is the very essence of what is achievable in a mid-sized family sedan for under 30 large. Without the badges to tell you differently, you could be in a Lexus that sells for 10 grand more. The materials look and feel rich, the fits and finishes are beyond reproach in any car at just about any price, and the driving experience, while not as “sporty” as I like (I prefer German iron), is the model of smooth, predictable, utterly viceless comfort and refinement.
Then get in the Malibu. The Malibu is “OK”, if “OK” is what you want. Too many details are just not quite right. Materials look and feel bargain-basement – built to a cost – OK for a $25,000 car, but no better. Exterior styling elements and details look roughly executed; proportions not quite right and styling themes not well integrated. The car looks cheap – even from a long distance away.
And behind the wheel, while the basic interior design is clean and functional, the seats aren’t supportive in the right places and are TOO supportive in the wrong places; and the materials don’t look substantial – how will they look and feel 5 years down the line? The steering feel is typically GM-numb. The new “steer-by-wire,” a good idea in principle, is not linear – its non-linearity and lack of feel inspires distrust, discouraging any kind of enthusiastic driving.
The Malibu is just not that fun to look at, fun to sit in, or fun to drive. In light of these shortcomings, the fact that the Malibu may have had fewer service bulletins is cold comfort.
I, for one, am not willing to spend over 20 grand for a rolling “toaster oven” appliance – especially when there are so many excellent quality, more stylish, more refined, better performing alternatives from the competition, available for similar money. Try Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Toyota Camry, Volkswagen Passat, Subaru Legacy, Mazda 6, even Hyundai Sonata.
Low recalls alone is insufficient for a quality driving or ownership experience. Until GM figures this out, they will remain the maker of “cars for fleet buyers or people who don’t know any better.”
I am not just a reflexive GM or domestic basher. Make a midsized family sedan that is BETTER than the ones I mention above, in ALL the ways that I think are important, for a competitive price, AND I WILL BUY IT! And I will shout it from the rooftops to get everyone I know to buy it.
I have been a loyal GM customer/fan for many years, and have watched the demise of performance initiatives at GM. BUILD A REAR DRIVE V8 PLATFORM CAR! Start listening to the consumers who still want a altenative to Mustangs, and Magnums. It’s not always about money is it? (from a baby boomer who remembers the excitement of going to dealers showrooms to check out the competition.)
Then get in the Malibu. The Malibu is “OK”, if “OK” is what you want. Too many details are just not quite right. Materials look and feel bargain-basement – built to a cost – OK for a $25,000 car, but no better. Exterior styling elements and details look roughly executed; proportions not quite right and styling themes not well integrated. The car looks cheap – even from a long distance .
This is to answer to weirving about the Malibu.
I used to work in a factory that built dash and clusters for Ford and GM. It always make me smile when I see “Cheap plastic.” Plastic is plastic and while it can be molded and colored, it is still plastic. A dash, at the time, was constructed with a plastic shell, and a vinyl skin. Urethane was then injected in a mold to produce a “padded look” to the dash pad. The companies who build those components are the same for many Auto manufacturers. In essence, polymer, graphite, plastic and other synthetic composites, are all made from the same basis with the same chemistry. Look and color differ, but plastic and polymer have been the same for ages. Processes to inject plastic in a mold may variate but all plastics are derived from petroleum.
Vinyl is vinyl and in my times (some 30 years ago at Uniroyal) it was the same.
It is the new thing to differentiate plastic interiors as being graded from high quality to cheap looking. In fact, I noticed that the big factor is only the fact that most Japanese product have padded vinyl instead of just plastic. The difference is the padding, not the plastic.
As a conclusion, I just saw a white Malibu today and I must say that it looked very classy, much better than the plain vanilla Camry. The Camry is in my view, a Japanese Oldsmobile. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder!
You want respect and consideration? Then don’t try to pass off a Holden Monaro as a GTO.
Right back at stratojet:
Yes, beauty IS in the eyes of the beholder. I’m not here to tell you to buy a Camry instead of a Malibu if you really like the Malibu better. If the Malibu is what blows your skirt up, by all means buy one. But the Camry outsells the Malibu by a very, very large margin, and there is a reason for that, whether you or General Motors like it or not.
And plastic is NOT just plastic. Yes, plastics are polymers that almost always are derived from petroleum; that much they all have in common. But there are nearly endless variations in formulae. The difference between a Camry’s or VW’s interior plastics has partially to do with chemical composition, but mostly with things like color choice, surface texture, shape and the finish. By finish I mean the molding. Molding marks or flash are a no-no; they scream Fisher-Price to me. GM plastic parts have rougher edges, and in some cases, even visible screw heads. You will NOT see visible screw heads on a BMW, Acura, Lexus or even Toyota or VW anywhere you look. But I have seen such crudeness even on Cadillacs!
Look at a Saturn Ion and compare it to a similarly priced VW Golf. If you can, with a straight face, tell me that the plastic interior parts have an equal quality look and feel, you are either lying to yourself, too stubborn to admit any difference, you don’t have an eye for these subtleties, or lastly, maybe you just don’t care about them.
That’s OK. You have a right to your opinion. But I find the Saturn Ion an embarrassing product; I am embarrassed for GM – it’s the junkiest car they’ve put out since the Chevy Vega (Remember that steaming pile?). Interior finish and textures are APALLING, as are the exterior panel gaps – large enough to slip my pinky finger into. The last car I saw that looked so shoddy was built in Communist Bloc Eastern Europe.
My opinion is just my opinion, but I suspect many people agree with me, since the Saturn Ion has been a huge sales dud and the Malibu has been a disappointment, not so much as making a dent in Honda Accord or Toyota Camry sales.
Are all of us Honda and Toyota buyers stupid? I don’t think so, but even if we ARE blithering idiots for not buying Malibus over the Hondas and Toyotas, at the end of the day, the idiots’ money is going into someone else’s coffers, not General Motors’ and that is GM’s problem, not ours.
I’ll say it again. When GM builds the best car for the price I am able to pay, I will buy it. I assume that GM must think the Malibu is the best family sedan for 25-ish grand – if they don’t, then shame on them for their laziness, but it doesn’t matter what THEY think. What matters is what I think; it IS my money after all. They and you can lament, even jeer my stupidity, but the bottom line is that GM needs my money worse than I need their product. As far as I am concerned, if GM disappeared tomorrow afternoon – tragic as that might be for thousands of American workers – I and the American economy would ultimately survive, and there would still be many excellent choices in the marketplace.
GM has to build what WE think is the best car, not what THEY think is the best. Right now, Toyota builds the best car – PERIOD; individuals may be stupid, but the marketplace is not. People are voting with their dollars. Despite the substantial price advantage of GM products (Toyotas sell at or over list price – they don’t have to give their cars away like GM does.), Toyota continues to increase marketshare and is poised to overtake GM in the near future as the world’s largest automaker. For GM to even hold on to it position – forget about growth – GM has to start building cars BETTER than Toyota IN EVERY WAY THAT THE CUSTOMER THINKS IS IMPORTANT! Initial quality, longterm reliability, durability, styling, technology, performance in all its various aspects, you name it. If GM can’t – or won’t – commit itself to doing that – FAST! – I don’t give GM more than 20 more years in the car business.
There is a spreading trend nowadays which I find quite disturbing. In the LA Times, there is a comment of a Journalist on the G6, Mr Wagonner and M.Lutz, that is very similar to what I read in some newspapers, consumer magazines and internet forums. The journalist even won prizes in journalism in the past. It seems that anybody right now has the right to say whatever they want, bluntly, with no respect for the individuals, companies , the people who work for them, and, by the same token, their families. We’re talking here about many thousand individuals that have nothing to do with this. It is a trend that is also widespread in sports (hockey, soccer etc) whereby people go to the extremes about their teams, referees and so on. I have seen the same thing recently in a radio station where one top anchorman was fired and sued because of what he had said on a woman . The same woman fought back and won, rightfully so.
I believe, to a certain extent, in a free speech and democratic rights, but when it comes to extremes, it rapidly degenerates to verbal violence and unconstructive debates.
The end of this story is that General Motors decided to withdraw their advertising in the LA Times, after numerous attempts to rectify the situation with the management. Of course, we will read about free press, censorship, democracy, but, after all has been said, why would a company spend $$ in a newspaper that in turn writes devastating editorials on them? The article, is available on the net, and I read it all. Frankly, I have rarely seen such a fierce and ruthless attack on an American company.
This is something to meditate about. Because of some articles that were written in the spirit of ” free speech rights”, a lot of peoples could get hurt, on both sides. It is about time that corporations react to this type of journalism . Perhaps the pendulum has swung too far left. There is a limit to the diplomatic immunity.
The needs of the many outweighs the needs of one.
Food for thoughts…
Stratojet
Mr. Lutz,
I can say that the Avalon, Camry, Accord and Maxima are beatable from a design standpoint. Start fresh, today. I’ll help. The tie goes to the Asians because they have done it better up to now.
Forget rebates. Give half that amount to the design team to use.
I’m looking for a car that starts with being big enough for four, six-footers, because that is my family. Make it safe. Safe is good lights, steering and brakes. Safe is visibility and good mirrors. Safe is controls and cup-holders that I can find without looking for them after a day in the car. Safe is being able to accelerate onto the freeway while fully loaded. Safe is a seat that fits. Safe is large, clear signal and brake LED lights. Safe is good crash test results.
It is quiet enough to have a four way conversation at 75 Mph. It gets at least 26 mpg at that same speed. The engine and transmission lasts the life of the car and the brakes stop the car solidly. I’m going to use this car for at least 150,000 miles. My favorite GMs of the past did these things. No black box except to report problems. There should be enough brains in the electronics to monitor system problems in all major systems and store trouble codes for the life of the car.
Stability control is now as much a requirement as ABS or air bags.
I should be able to put a trailer hitch on the car and throw 4 suitcases in the trunk. The rear suspension should adjust for the weight. The window glass should be tinted like a minivan and the stereo should sound clear. There are enough cup holders and lighter sockets for all four passengers. I want somewhere to put my telephone, sunglasses, radar detector and CDs. My in-dash player should be able to handle DVDs, CDs, play FM, satellite radio, Windows Media and MP3s.
Dash design should be designed for a driver at speed on a sunny day. Clear speedo, tach, gas and temp gauges. If I need to be told about a problem, have the message come through clearly in human language and stand out. The steering wheel tilts and telescopes. I need to be able to rest my arms while doing freeway driving otherwise I’m uncomfortable and tend to drive one handed. The glove box is big enough for the manual and maps. There are inside releases for hood and trunk. The gas cap is on the driver side and the door is visible from driver side mirror.
The auto temperature control knows better than to blast the fan before the coolant warms up. There are enough vents to warm me or cool me without drying my contact lenses. The seats are comfortable with thigh and back support and arm rests. The finish of the seat is durable and looks good at 100,000 miles. Cheap leather looks cheap at 25,000 miles. The seatbelts are comfortable and adjustable for height. Passenger headrests adjust to support sleeping.
The paint is durable and shiny. Stone chips can be repaired. Doors and fenders have enough heft to fend off light door dings. Switches and handles are easy to find in the dark and don’t snap off, ever.
Changing tires is easy because the jack handle is long enough and the stand works in loose dirt or gravel. Include a trouble light that can reach the wheel wells so I can work in the dark.
I’m shopping for an Accord replacement sedan now and have driven the major Asian competition. They are all good cars but could be beaten with a solid sedan.
Ford and Chrysler are racing for 4th and 5th place so they don’t count.
Play to win. Play for the long term.
GM has a strength in it’s divisions as far a service goes. Want a run of the mill, wait for the busy service department to get to it, buy a Chevy. Want closer service experience, wait for a small department to get to your car and they know you by name, buy a GMC. The time to get the car back is about the same. The experience is different just along the divisions alone. Looks are also a plus. If you hate the look of the Chevy full size pickup, the GMC may appeal to you or vice versa. In other words KEEP ALL YOUR DIVISIONS! The above notes on Chevy vs. GMC help you appeal to more customers by having products that have different advantages for different needs. Fleet and need bottom line cheep go Chevy. Extras that don’t need to be ordered as options go GMC.
Why is GM not offering 5 year 100,000 miles powertrain warranty? Such a warranty propelled the South Korean brand Hyundai to a phenominal success. With the durability I am witnessing in my 96 LeSabre and the quality in my 05 Suburban plus the good American value in my 05 Park Avenue, I am wondering why GM can not go bold about presenting its product? Fuel mileage? I get 25.5 miles per G in commuting drive (30 miles/G on hwy) on LeSabre with super quiet interior and 205 silk-smooth horses. Which Toyota model of this age gives this much space, this much broad torque with this much gas mileage? GM’s survival will be as reliable as its product reliability is backed by competitive (to Asian brand) warranty.
I previously owned a Buick Regal. It was a good car. Its design was exemplary. The engine was among the best for both smoothness and power. This is back in 1991. But it had a couple of problems before the odometer hit 120K KM. Had to change the alternator and the starter.
Since then the world has moved on. I still try to like American Cars. There are a couple of things that always move me towards the Japanese and now even the Korean counterparts.
First the suspension. American cars are slowly catching up or so I thought until I drove an Envoy. It was a let down. The fit and finish is still not at par with even cheaper Japanese imports. Then comes the engine – if the car looks good and desirable it would not have a suitable engine – even as an option. If everything is good including the engine the interior will have some quirks that makes it hard to live with unless you are the driver (e.g. Trailblazer front passenger side seat and leg room). Similarly I have read about the lack of rear seat room in the new Buick.
I think this lack of attention to detail on the mainstream cars is what led people to discover the Japanese and now the Korean cars. They have two things in common – either they are put together or they are priced right.
For me GM does not just mean Cadillac or Corvette. It means the Pontiac G6 which in my opinion a sweet looking car. But GM must put a lot more attention to design detail than just the sheetmetal.
I recently toured parts of France in a Peugeot diesel stick shift. Comfortable, roomy, Porsche-like gearbox, nice amenities. Best of all it got unbelievable mileage. Of course gas there is 1 Euro a liter — about $5 a gallon. Hey, folks, this is where we’re going. No more cheap gas. If you start building cars like these THAT ARE DEPENDABLE — you’ll be back in business. Forget all the bells and whistles.
Mr. Lutz,
I purchase my cars for long-term use. For example, my last purchase was of a 1992 Chevrolet Lumina APV. It is now of an age where I am considering what car I will replace it with.
When I compare available vehicles, I see one GM product which I believe will meet my needs. That is the Pontiac Vibe. It is of the right size and gets decent fuel economy. The downside is that it lacks things that are standard on its competitors. For example, the Honda CRV, the Toyota RAV4, and the Hyundai Tucson all come with antilock brakes and stability control standard. In addition, the Tucson comes with side impact air bags and side curtain air bags standard. To equip the Vibe (or the Toyota Matrix, its twin) to an equivalent safety level would cost thousands more than the other vehicles.
Why should I buy the Vibe?
GM also had something really good in the composite body panels used in the APV (and the Saturn models). My APV has resisted the parking lot dings that plague sheet-metal bodied cars. Why did you give up on this obviously superior technology?
My ideal vehicle would be a Vibe with composite panels and with the safety features standard at a price comparable with its competitors. A small diesel cabable of burning biodiesel or flexible fuel cabability for the gasoline engine would be a definite plus as well.
I would have ordered a Prius but for the seating. The more upright seating of the Vibe makes this a choice my wife and I could live with if the price when comparably equipped were reasonably close to that of the other vehicles I mentioned above.
In case nobody has realized, there has occurred a tremendous polarization between haves and have-nots in this country. Snipe all you want about the Cavalier, but it was an inexpensive car for many people to drive to work in. If GM built a base Cobalt or Cavalier with an Ectotec, window cranks, manual trans (auto optional)and tasteful interior – sold it for a guaranteed $7500 and cranked ‘em out like Model Ts, they’d sell. I’m a lawyer and deal with alot of people every day; economically, there is a chasm that separates the wealthy and so-called lower middle class. Working poor are having a hard time affording basic wheels to get to Wal-Mart in – to work or shop. Market this life-line vehicle and it will sell. Thank you. Tom H. 7/15/2005
Dear Mr. Lutz,
According to consumer reports, American cars are now more reliable than European models, but still lag behind the Japanese. I have owned Toyota cars since about 1990, and really wanted to buy a Saturn a few years ago. Although the mechanicals were great, the design and implementations were cheap. It seemed that someone just did not finish the job, and the Japanese are known for their attention to detail. Recently I had the same experience with a Pontiac Bonneville. The drivetrain was excellent, but it suffered from poor ergonomics inside. I want a car that has form AND function.
The other problem with American automakers has more to do with limiting our selection than quality. When I was in England last year, I drove a Vauhall Astra diesel station wagon, and averaged about 50mpg on the highway. There is no comparable GM car in the US, even though we wanted to buy one. If you sold Opels again (the maker of the Astra), I would buy one. I do not want a huge, gas-guzzling SUV. I keep cars for years, and want a cheap to operate, reliable, safe car.
Dear Mr. Lutz,
You are doing excellent work at GM. Your cars are greatly improved.
For example, I rented a Pontiac (Grand Am I believe) about 10 years ago. You could not put a cup in the cupholder when the transmission was in park!
Went to the Auto Show in Motion — super idea — and drove the Cadillac CTS-v. Super — work on the axle tromp.
But, I’m not in the market to a 50M car.
So, please add Subarus to your Auto Show. They are high quality and a good value.
Thanks and keep up the good work — you know about the Japanese, the South Koreans are coming up, and the Mainland Chinese are right behind them.
Mr. Lutz,
I’m back again after going to the Auto Show in Motion in San Diego.
Very much improved over the event I attended in Orange County last year.
The Chevy SSR is very cool — if it bit unrefined.
The Cadillic CTS-v is improved over last year. Bravo!
Your challenge is to do this thoughout the line — every one of your conveyances ought to be world-class — and a good value. A tie goes to Toyota.
Incidentally, it may have been a Grand Prix I drove years ago — but it was a 4-door and I believe all Grand Prix were 2-doors.
One more comment about the “bad old days” — the Oldsmobile Achieva had the tightest back seat that I have seen a 4-door — tighter than a Mazda RX-8!
Mr. Lutz,
A few more comments for now.
Thanks for the Auto Shows in Motion.
At the most recent one in San Diego, I drove a Chevy Cobalt SS manual. Very nice!
However, it was in “screaming” yellow. I hope its available in more Q-ship livery.
Good luck with the new SUV lineup.
Thanks again.
Howard
Mr. Lutz and Waggoner – I hope that GM is able to right itself, however, after owning 9 gm vehicles, I am done. the quality has gone downhill and that problem is exabecerated by dealers such as silver star in westlake village, ca, who could not fix a simple window regulator problem which in 5 times.
Hello Mr. Lutz:
I have not seen an entry from you since February 05? A leader’s blog is an egalitarian interaction with the participants. Certainly you can find 20 minutes per month (or even 5) to pay attention to your customers, evangelists or detractors. This looks for like a economical form of market research.
It’s a new day and in the customer experience world, the new brand world, being authentic is critical. I have been a GM once.
I am concerned for GM at these very difficult times. One of your problems are that you are so focused on formed metals and sales revenues, that nowhere over the years has GM ever made customers centric to its actions. The sales dealership experience is a dreaded, predictable, gothic side-show. The employees are imbued with a sales at all costs motto (no matter how they dress it up). Your web site has no humanity–its all about models and performance. You stand to gain a lot, right now, if you begin to deal with humans beings and their needs–it’s not just about the car. Anytime you want to blog me back–I am humanly engaged and ready for it. It’s waht I do for living.
GM can prevail in the new paradigm–the good news is neither Ford, Chrysler or any foreign brand have mastered this either.
Mr. Lutz,
As a GM trained master automotive technician,high school and college automotive instructor, I have no problems defending GM vehicles on technical and performance related issues when comparing them to say foreign designs; I do however have a hard time defending GM styling. Take for instance, when comparing the styling of GM’s truck line with that of Ford’s, Dodge’s, Toyota’s, or Nissan’s, most of whom I have spoken with migrate to favoring the later. Most recently, I couldn’t even persuade a relative to buy a Silverado Pickup versus a Tundra because of styling alone. No matter how much technical info. I laid out for comparison, exterior styling was the deciding factor. I want GM to succeed in every department I hope this will help. I personally don’t like the Tundra look but I do think the Silverado is missing something.
GM’s Blogging Experiment — A First Year Report Card
A little over one year ago, Michael Wiley, the director of new media at General Motors, decided he had to do something to change the company’s sclerotic image as a tired relic of the industrial age that had lost touch…
Mr Lutz,
I’m getting really tired of seeing the comments from GM brass that the press isn’t cutting GM any slack. Why don’t you try to influence your company to focus on building really great cars? Do you think the Russians that designed your fighter jet had cost reductions as their main build objective? Don’t kid yourself into thinking “you’re there” in terms of build quality or character in design – “perception of quality” is not what will build a loyal customer base. Most European cars have poor reliability and yet retain the most loyal customer base. Why? – because their focus is not on building the cheapest car that they can dupe customers into buying. Times are tough for GM – everyone knows that. What good is placing all your focus on cost cutting if the end result is further loss of market share? Hopefully someone at the top still has some sense that you have to sell the product to make a profit, and your consumers have far too many choices of non-GM product where the main focus isn’t how cheap you made the car. I’ll admit progress is being made, but not nearly fast enough.
Hello Mr. Lutz,
Ask your neighbor, “how many people do you know that like to work on their own cars?” I think you would be shocked ot find out how many there are. Those who live in the fancy neighborhoods forgot about the middle and lower class guys who loves to work on their own cars. This has been an American tradition since the automobile was invented. ALL the auto builders have forgotten.
The market for the average home mechanic is entirely missing. How are cars “individualized” today? Low riders, fenders, stereos, etc. What was happening in the ’60’s and 70’s? Muscle cars. The focus went from the engine to the body of the car. Why? Who can work on the engine anymore? Any make of car will do when adding a stereo or bodywork. Make an engine that the average Joe can “soup up” and “personalize” and you have a car that they must buy from you.
Parts must be reasonable and interchangeable. For instance: My mechanic is replacing my wheel bearings on my Buick. The parts alone will cost 1200.00! Rediculous, when the average guy could pack and install wheel bearing for a fraction of that in the 60’s and 70’s.
Build a car for the average American.
Legacy Costs? Yes, they are certainly an issue but legacy costs alone cannot explain GM’s continued decline in domestic market share. As several posters have noted, GM currently lacks vehicles in its line-up that appeal to younger buyers and car enthusiats. If there is any bias in the mainstream auto press, it’s toward vehicles that are well-built, attractively designed and FUN TO DRIVE!
There is a reason that the BMW 3-series has been a Car & Driver “Best 10″ for 15 years… it’s hands down one of the most “fun-to-drive” cars on the road. As a former BMW exec, you Mr. Lutz certainly understand this! Under your leadership and the subsequent leadership of Daimler execs, Chrysler has made a tremendous comeback by once again building well-built, beautifully designed, exciting to drive vehicles. Simply put, GM must follow suit!
As well, the company desperately needs to streamline its overall product line. There is no way that the company can succeed with 76 models in its vehicle line-up [particularly with so many platform "clones" that compete primarily with each other, rather than European and Japanese rivals, for market-share].
Lastly, one poster notes that many GM vehicles will “do 200K miles” but I ponder how many do so while retaining any semblance of overall fit and finish? While Mercedes and other european brands have suffered from quality issues in recent years (owing largely to the over use of new electronic “bells & whistles”), they’re still producing cars that will go 200-300K (or more) miles while maintaining classic looks and continuing to be fun to drive vehicles.
As a former Detroiter who cares deeply about the city’s economic future, I pray that GM turns the corner. It will, however, require a shift towards producing innovative, well-built and “inspiring” products that appeal to a wide spectrum of buyers. In this effort, I wish you the best of luck!
Dear Sir,
I live in pakistan. I want to buy a family car. I selected Suzuki APV that meets my requirements. But i donot like its exterior design. It really looks like old models (early 70’s) of FORD vans. These Vans are still operational in villages of pakistan. Kindly make its exterior good looking just like toyota/mercedese of its kind of vehicles. Otherwise this car is really according to my requiremets. If a diesel model is introduced it will sell like hot cakes. Please make the shape of APV aerodyanamic. Please ignore this letter if you dont like it.
Mr. Lutz, could not agree more. People love to critcize and nitpick about minor things while GM is continously improving its product. No one is talking about the Honda V6 5 speed automatic transmission failures with 50,000 miles, or the Toyota V6 engine sludge problems. No, they talk about how GM quality still lags the Japanese.
Wake up people. GM is not perfect, but it is improving. I bought a GM product for the first time two years ago, and so far it rides better than my Honda Accord, gets better gas mileage, and is holding up better (no electrical problems or transmission problems, like the Honda is giving me). Oh yes, and I own the terrible Saab 9-3 (2006) which is supposedly an awful car. So far, 24,000 miles into it, it is perfect. We will see if it lasts 10 years, but my neighbor across the street has a 10 year old 9-5 with 170,000 miles and it is still going strong. I am converted and if my Saab holds up, I will consider buying another car – potentially a Buick, and I am 38, not 70.