Cadillac, Buick Reveals in Chicago

I really like the interior and exterior styling of the Lucerne. I would love to see pics of the Nav system in the Lucerne. The only negative I see is the lack of the 3.6l. Why the old 3.8l? And why was it detuned to 195 hp? In the era of high horsepower sedans (especially in the lux segment), having a dated, 195 hp engine will certainly be panned by the press and public alike.

For a company (GM) and a brand (Buick) that are trying to reinvent themselves, the 3.8l will do nothing but cheapen the otherwise excellent effort that is Lucerne. The 3.8l certainly isn't a bad base engine -- but the 3.6l should have been made available as option.

Welcome to podcast world. Way to go Team GM !!

My only complaint is that the Lucerne has the 3800. Why on Earth did you not use the 3600 as the base powertrain!?!?!?

The 3800 was a good engine in its time, but it has been used too much for too long. Put it to rest!

For the dreamer in all of us? Sounds more like a nightmare.

Hey GM, why not make cars that would work towards lessening the dependence of America (and the developed world in general) on fossil fuels and, importantly, ever increasing *imports* of these resources?

Now there's a dream worth buying.

For such a slick company, seems like you could at least learn how to project a podcast right. Hint, hyperlink to the podcast in your entry. To see the way a mom and pop company does it ... follow my link.

Well, here's what I don't like about the DTS (from the pictures shown so far)

(a) The taillights look like they were lifted off of a Monte Carlo, which is definitely not a good thing for a Deville. Oops! I mean "DTS."

(b) The grill looks awful. I mean, what was wrong with the grill on the '04 model? It looked fine. This one however, calls way too much attention to the car just because it's so ugly. And what's up with those weird horizontal bars underneath the grill?

As for the positives, I think the interior is absolutely gorgeous and is a step in the right direction for the "DTS."

What worries me though, is that although I really like the "Art & Science" designs, I feel that the Deville needs to stay away from that, mainly because it's the only "classic" Cadillac we have left. The only one that doesn't have an alphanumeric name; a true beacon of *American* luxury.

How can Cadillac expect to be considered the "standard of the world" when it's so blatantly obvious that your're chasing after Lexus, BMW, and the other "imports"?

You can also watch videos of the DTS and Lucerne introductions here:

http://gmtv.feedroom.com

Just click on the Buick or Cadillac "Channel."

The one aspect of the Lucerne I am highly dissapointed with is its exterior. It's not that it's unnattractive - in fact, it is quite appealing. However, it is extremely derivative. The front very closely resembles that of the Infinity Q45 and the C-pillar back looks like the VW Pheton with slightly softened lines. I'm not saying GM copied the designs by any means. What I am saying though, is that Buick deserves distinctive styling. Even the current line up of Buick sedans, for all their well noted faults, are extremely well styled and unmistakenly Buicks. In comparison, the Lucerne looks like an import wannabe, which is quite inadequate for a brand that has in the not so distant past pioneered American styling.

I love the interior, suspension upgrades and powertrains (even the 3800 - a reliable engine if there ever was one). But please try and infuse some passion into these designs for those of us who consider a car to be more than a mode of transportation.

I agree with cmattson completely. I had the exact same thought when I read the spec sheet. The 3800 should not be in this vehicle...period. This car should not be going to the rental fleets. It would have been a perfect 10 if not for the 3800 being dropped into this car. I am guessing the 3.6L would have been lighter and almost as fast as the Northstar option. That and a cost factor as the 3.6L is more expensive to produce when compared to the simplicity of the 3800. To me it was a missed opportunity. I will say this though: the car is a stunning design inside and out. Way to go GM and Maximum Bob!

The Lucerne is a step in the right direction for Buick. The exterior and interior are vastly superior to anything else Buick has come up with. However, I am concerned about the performance. While I realize we are talking about Buick (which is not exactly synonymous with performance with the exception of the Grand National) here, if GM is going to try to convince current import buyers into the Buick showroom, the Lucerne had better be comparable if not superior to its import competition.

As for the DTS, why does it continue to remain front-wheel drive? Will it be switched to rear-wheel drive?

I have a question: Who are you trying to reach with your podcast? Curious.

I hope You know what You are doing by putting the old 3800 engine to the newest Buick product...

The rest of the Lucerne looks great(especially the interior, wheels and some nice chrome touches outside). The FWD is not a bad choice at all but everybody will still be waiting for FWD/AWD Buicks. This Buick made me think that it would be not a bad idea to sell Buicks outside the U.S. They would be a better choice than most of the Korean and Japan offerings in this price range.

As far as DTS is concerned, it should have looked that way at the beginning -- big, comfy, powerful with a very nice interior.

I do appreciate your comments here. I only wish some could appear in print for many to read.

You hit the nail on the head with the stats on our vehicles and challanged the inquirer to try one out. Seems that is a daily comment I make to the people I try to get into our cars and trucks.

I am not sure how to get the media to FAIRLY represent domestic manufacturers. Their slant is definitively negative to the point that I stop reading and fire off an e-mail editorial. I hope more GM folks are angry enough to stand up and yell.

Now on my drive home Thursday 2/10 I heard the latest recall of our highly-tauted full size trucks which included the H2 and TopKick. It is not a moment I enjoy but is a reality in the business as we push the envelope on shorter development windows.

A CRDN was approved recently that removed 'GM Mark of Excellence' from a future product. This got me to thinking that we - GM - need to stand up to create the image formerly held. I do recall the moniker on the sill plate of my first car. It gave me a sense of pride that I owned that vehicle.

I truly believe that GM needs to 'culturize' this statement in all activity -- R&D to design to produce to sales & marketing.
I personally am tired of following. It's about time for this behemouth to take back and charge forward.

Mr. Lutz, I really hope you have the courage to answer this for not only me, but all of us even remotely interested in Buick.

Why in God's name is the base 3800 Series III V6 offered at a measly 195 hp?

Did anyone there at RenCen do the math on this one? 205 (outgoing LeSabre's output) > 195 (brand-new LeSabre replacement). The '06 Impala has more base horsepower. Again, why?

I mean, why does the successor car LOSE horespower? Please do tell. And of all the engine available in the great lineup of GM Powertrain, why do you choose a detuned version of the 3800?

You know, I'm going to venture a guess - emissions. Am I right? You constricted the 3800 to meet SULEV restrictions, right? If the answer is indeed 'yes' then give me some time to laugh at the incompetance you've displayed and then cry for the Buick dealers who have to try and move a fullsize luxury car with under 200 hp.

Please tell me there's aalvation coming, Mr. Lutz. Please tell me the real numbers are HIGHER than 205 hp. Please tell me a 250 hp 3.6l will debut in the CXL. Please tell me you guys actually have a clue when it comes to playing the numbers game with the media, who you know is going to jump all over this 195 hp figure.

If you can't, that's OK I suppose. I'm happy enough with my Aurora, you know, the car that had a 250 hp V8 a decade ago. Kinda hoped that the Lucerne would've blown by mind. Better luck with the Invicta, Bob...if there even is one...

Bob

How about looking at the names for your Cadillac models? I doubt there are 10 consumers in the world that can match the entire product line with the three-character names you seem to be moving tword. CTS, STS, CTS-V, SRX, XLR, and now the DTS. You have great names like Seville, DeVille and Escalade, which all immediatly bring a vision to mind. Pass this on to your "naming gurus" to ponder.

thanks
Joel

Why oh why is the 3800 still in the Lucerne, and detuned? Shove the 3.6 in there, or supercharge the 3800 as STANDARD (3.6 would still be preferable). The 3800 is just not a very refined engine, and Buick needs every bit of refinement it can get with such heavy competition as the new Avalon.

The exterior is a home run, Bob. I showed the Lucerne pictures to some 18- and 19-year-olds the other day and they genuinely loved it. When was the last time a Buick did that? There's still time to fix this gaffe with the engine--and it really is a gaffe. Seems like I'm not the only one questioning this move here, either.

Michael Wiley writes:

"Sorry you and Shel did not like the GM podcast. We understand that a press conference is not the ideal format for a podcast but we do have enthusiasts that want to hear these sorts of things. That is why we webcast them as well.

Also, since we're in new territory, I don't think there is a template of what is right or wrong, everything is niche oriented and this niche obviously wasn't for you.

But, we are asking readers of FastLane what it is they would like to hear more of, and through constructive feedback we will hopefully produce something that appeals to you guys. We're by no means limiting ourselves to press conferences."

Michael...thanks for the response. I've responded in kind after the jump.
http://socialcustomer.typepad.com/the_social_customer_manif/2005/02/a_review_of_the.html#comments

When are you going to address and start doing something about
the resale value of your products,I used to buy GM but have went to Toyota and Honda my last 2 purchases so I dont get killed on my trades

Ok, I just noticed something!
The lights of the interior in the Lucerne are blue!!!
WHAT THE HELL?? Guys GREEN is Buick's colour! Why did you change that! It has always been like that! Why do you think so many people hate it! I like the car, hate its powertrains and transmision, but now even worse, the interior is ruined, it's no longer green like Buick has always been! Lutz! fix this please!

Typical GM. Lucerne, Solstice, G6, all introduced with low horsepower engines. Typically by the 3rd yr of the vehicles existence they will beef up the engine choices (superchargers, new engine options, GT versions, etc), but it's too late as buyers have opted for competitors vehicles and GM execs will continue to wonder why they continue to lose market share. BUILD THE DAMN THING RIGHT FROM THE GETGO. Give the customer what he wants, which based on these previous postings in more horsepower and new engines. Do you people READ these things?

A few comments: I think the style of both cars is great! You're on your way!

Posters can't talk out of both sides of their mouths when they comment that cars look like Infinitis and VWs, yet wonder why people do not buy American. There's a reason (right or wrong) that teens suddenly wear the same clothes, or ties become wide or narrow... it is called what is IN STYLE, and GM has done well here.

On the other hand, how are engine decisions made? Compare HP/Torque with the competition and you're not on top.

Another example: In today's NY Times is a review of the new Ford 500, (which they like better than a DCX Pacifica). HP/torque is the Buick Rendezvous is 185/210 compared with 230/242 for the Highlander, 250/250 for the Pacifica, and 203/207 for the Ford. GM is dead LAST in all but torque.

The comment that the beefy engines will come in year 2-3 of the model run is on the money and too bad.

The effort is great, and I hope that you continue on your current path (but boost the HP)

With the Buick launch on the heals of the Toyota Avalon launch, it will be interesting how these cars hold up in resale value in 2009.

HINT TO GM: Have one of your top people buy an Avalon and use it as a daily driver, EVERY DAY for two years. That is your target.

Buick desperately needs a competitor for the Chrysler 300C (same power levels and prices) to survive. The Lucerne is pleasant, but will not save Buick. Why would anyone choose a 195 hp Lucerne over a 280 hp Avalon for about the same money? Importing a Holden sedan for Buick (the latest rumor) is not sufficient. High powered V8 RWD sedans are hot right now, but all you offer are $50,000+ Cadillacs. I have a feeling that Chevrolet, Cadillac, and GMC will be the only GM divisions 10 years from now.

I've got to say this: the Lucerne is the biggest disappointment I've seen thus far. Most of the other introductions have been big improvements over the outgoing model. This looks like someone was digging around Nissan's garbage bin and pulled out a rejected Maxima. It doesn't have any strong design cues or notably unique aspects. Buicks used to have some appeal because they had designs which looked unique and quite organic, and this does not.

Glad to see interior improvements, but I hope a restyle is in the cards soon for this Lucerne, sad to say. I don't think ripping off Nissan is the way to rejuvinate the brand, and this particular Nissan-ripoff is especially uninspired.

I agree with most of the other posts, the engine on the Buick is too small and stop with calling all the autos with three letters instead of a name.

It would be interesting to know the target audiences of these two cars (age, income level, etc.).

On one hand, styling is much improved...moving more toward the contemporary looks that have proven successful for "upper brands" like Lexus, Acura, etc. ...

On the other hand, the engines are underpowered.

It seems that you've gotten the message that those who are aging (50+) who are in their prime earning years have changing tastes from the grandparents of the '50s-'70s. "Land Yachts" are gone; style is in. You’ve make the Town Car look like a dinosaur.

The changomg tastes of those who are aging are also seen in details:

- Name changes from Sedan De Ville and Seville to names like DTS and STS
- Small details like the change from calligraphy-like script on the badges to simple straight lettering

Yet, engines still lag. You introduce attractive designs, why not best-in-class engines across the boards, not just for the upper-most model?

Overall it seems that GM goes half-way. It should be a rule that all GM cars have 5-speed automatics, and if a manual is offered, a 5-speed only. No four speeds. And please put that pushrod 3800 to pasture.

You launch a great car like the Malibu Maxx; why not add details like darkened glass or AWD to make the car REALLY COOL and help attract more buyers?

I can go on, but I think you get the idea.

I’ve always asked myself, and my gear-head friends, if “regular Joes” like us can see this so clearly and so quickly, how do these cars get thru “expert” committees and get put on the road? Think Pontiac Aztec.

Enough said my friend. I think you’re on our side. I said in another post, that you might want to consider a face-to-face meeting with some of us who are more active on here. I think it would be an interesting experience for you.

I agree with going back to names vs. letters. The letters are not memorable. I can't name you a single Lexus or Mercedes because I don't remember the letters! Maybe it is because I personally don't care what their models are named, but I also am not a huge fan of Ford or Chrysler, but at least I know the names of their cars when I see them!

I believe several past studies show that women have a pretty big influence in purchasing new vehicle,s and I can tell you that I have never sat around with other moms discussing cars whose names are acronyms for Lord knows what. If you do decide to go face-to-face with some of the posters here, be sure to include some females! We have pretty strong opinions, too!

Congratulations on the new Buick. It looks like a Ford Taurus.

Cadillac is the king of luxury, yeah we know that. But Buick is the Godfather. It has more soul, history and heritage that any car name probably on earth. Ask Jay Leno. If you don't bring back cars like the Buick 8 you will be know solely for causing the death of the Godfather of the American car industry and everyone from New Jersey to China will know it. How could you sleep knowing this may be your legacy? Big Cars Do Not Have To Be Long Cars. Height and Stance. As Ford did with their F150 pick-up, Buick needs to do for their cars.

Who came up with the name for the Lucerne? It brings to mind images of Switzerland or on the West Coast it is a brand name of dairy products. My car may be a clunker right now, but at least the name SkyHawk is cool.

Buick needs to build another Grand National. My '86 Grand National was the most fun I ever had in the front seat of an automobile. Driving the "Black Beast" was like having a rocket engine strapped to your butt! I could blow the doors off of anything on the street! I knew guys that took their Grand Nationals from the showroom floor straight to the dragstrip, mounted racing slicks on them and won races. That car could get 29 miles per gallon on the highway, even with my lead foot mashing the go pedal to the floor.

In 1987, the last 500 Grand Nationals, the GNX, had a 300 HP turbocharged 3.8 V6. That was 18 years ago. Why can't Buick build a car like this today?

I can't get excited about any of the new Buicks, to me, they are nothing more than bland transportation modules.

The Lucerne looks nice enough on the outside, but what in the world happened to the interior? It looks as if GM ran out of money in car's budget to put some pizzazz in the interior. We know that it (a nice interior) can be done, as witnessed in the New Cadillac DTS (BTW, start comping up with some NAMES for those Cadillacs.. CTS, DTS, ETC, nothing that sounds alluring, exciting or enticing about any of those names/letters).

Work on those two items and I'll gladly consider a browse through your GM showrooms and I'll leave my Mercedes, BMW and Aston Martin behind...

another example of corporate B.S. Stop throwing your marketing at us!

I have to agree with Devin's post of Feb. 13 concerning the Lucerne.

My first impression of the car (on the Buick website on the day it was introduced) was that I was looking at a Nissan from about 6 years ago. There is nothing remotely Buick about this car.

The Park Avenue was a classic, sleek, luxurious car and the LeSabre still looked good, though it was getting old.

Now they are gone, and in their place we have an even older looking car.

The last time this happened, it was the beginning of the end for oneof America's oldest nameplates - Oldsmobile.

I'll say my goodbyes to Buick now, so I won't have to in the future.

As for the DTS - Being the owner of a current model DTS (Yes, there is actually a car called that!) I have to say I am disapponted in the exterior execution of this car.

I have seen all other Cadillacs replaced with nice looking, edgy designs (Catera to CTS, Seville to STS) and was expecting the same for my DTS.

Instead, we get a new nose (that looks horribly awry) and a new rear (that looks nearly identical).

I was expecting ALL new, not 10% new.

Looks like I won't be trading my current DTS for a new one at all.

I will take the 3800. Runs forever, super fuel economy, proven. It's all in what's important. EOM

The Deville (DTS) should hav ebeen designed retro. As the only front driver left it should have been designed more like Caddys of old. It certainly would have been more interesting than just sticking that hideous front grille on it.

At the current price of 2.78 a gallon I think you should talk about fuel economy. Fuel is only going up
0-60 in five seconds equals three dollars a pop.

Lucerne?
Lucille?
Laverne?
Shirley you jest.
Would Tiger drive a Lucerne?
Are French-sounding names en vogue with Americans?
Can you introduce me to one American male who would buy a car named Lucerne?

the truck??????
what scion is doing with their new models is taking the echo Y genration by storm.
where is genral motors?

is there ANY pushbars/ grill guards for a 1993 buick lesabre? at all??? please respond of you have any information!!!

Podcast innovation in GM.. hm... Good news! ;-)

Am I the only person who see's a tremendous similarity in the new Lucerne and the Aurora that was dropped a couple of years ago when Olds was shut down?

I agree with most of the other posts, the engine on the Buick is too small and stop with calling all the autos with three letters instead of a name.

It's amazing how you guys can come up with great ideas to promote the cars - be it in design, details, etc. I am excited and find such info of great use. I would be able to learn more about GM. Keep it up guys!!

Great site and corporate use of Blog

KK

I sometimes feel very much alone in holding on to my loyalty to GM cars. Corporate downsizing has taken its toll as plants have closed, replaced by new plants built by the import competition. On every street, I count more from them and less from the "Big Three", but I still hang on. I see more and more import commercials on TV causing me to hit the mute on my remote because I don't want to hear them. And then I read that Toyota is crashing the once exclusively domestic NASCAR, which makes my blood boil. I have almost no defense against the clucking turncoats who have embraced the foreign offerings saying "they're assembled here!". They don't hear me as I try to tell them that the final profit dollar made from their purchase just flew straight across the ocean.
Starting in the late 60's with the purchase of a Buick Skylark (350), I have owned an '85 Chevy Citation X-11(6-cyl), an '88 Chevy Cavalier Z-24 (2.8), and an Olds Achieva (3.1). Many years passed between each purchase because the GM offerings were very small in the department of affordable excitement, but what am I to do now? Chevrolet doesn't offer much between the Impala (too sedan-like) and the Cobalt (which is too small) and Oldsmobile is gone, so the Pontiac G6 seems to be about the only thing capable of allowing me to continue driving a GM car.
I am a 56 year old grandmother. Before the day comes when I have to turn in my driver's license I truly hope you can do something to turn this around and once again give the American buying public something to believe in!