What I Meant To Say Was…

If the "next" BLS is to remain on Epsilon (Epsilon II in '08?) I'm to guess and will continue to be FWD for all markets then Cadillac’s RWD momentum is shot. Jerry Flint hit the nail on the head when we called the BLS the "phony Cadillac."

That said. The next BLS should either move to Kappa where it carry a sticker at, or near $30k, remain RWD and with a $30k price tag make GM money off of Kappa, OR put the BLS on the Holden Torana's "Beta" architecture.

The business case for the Beta architecture that the Torana rides on is becoming more and more apparent in recent weeks. Pontiac still has no Sunfire replacement and Buick would be perfect for a RWD premium vehicle off of Beta along with the Torana for Holden and BLS for Cadillac.

If this FWD comes to North America the "Breakthrough" will be a nothing short of broken dreams.

Bob -

Kudos on your blog! Great to see a guy in your position using the new media to communicate to potential consumers (and current ones).

And good for correcting yourself.

However, I'm still trying to understand your explanation from your post:
Best in Class? Taste for Yourself
http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/archives/2005/02/best_in_class_t.html

Seems to me you need to explain how a Honda engine that's available to Saturn buyers adds to your "buy American" rationale and your whole "quality" accessment.
The Honda name most certainly helps your brand but it's not American. If it's good enough for a Saturn, why wouldn't I just go buy an Accord?

I responded to your post in detail on my blog, here:
http://www.andrewpryor.com/index.php?p=77

Keep your posts coming! And again, good for you for being a leader in your industry for using blogs to communicate to the masses.

Andrew

Bob-
Glad to see your explanation of what you meant to say, this morning. If the BLS is indeed based on the Saab 9-3 what is it that makes this rebody any less profitable than the 9-3? With the demise of the Bonneville, Pontiac's flagship is now the midsized Grand Prix. The only AWD Pontiacs are the new Montana and Torrent. As far as a performance luxury sedan what Pontiac screams for and what Cadillac could share and therefore amortize costs is a true AWD sports sedan in the tradition of the Audi A6 and A8 Quatro.

Go ahead and design it for those discriminating European drivers, but bring it home to us. Sure you have attempted this in the far past with the 6000STE AWD but that was an add-on to an existing FWD platform and did not execute up to its peers. A ground up development of an AWD performance sedan platform would actually allow you the choice of 3 configurations on the same chassis -- AWD, FWD, RWD, without the compromises now inherent in moving from one architecture to another.

Cadillac can't be a world leader building only for a small market, so get the attention of Europe with a new level of fit and finish, tied to a class beating performance - and then bring it on home!

Boy oh boy, do I ever agree with Josh!

The Torana's "Beta" architecture, could transform the next gen BLS from an "also ran" to a "gotta have!" "Gotta have" is what we want GM to build...right?

This architecture, IMO, would be a perfect fit for a Caddy 3 series/ C class fighter - and would also elegantly tie up alot of loose ends in GM's product portfolio...namely, one very special ponycar, which a lot of us are waiting for.

-Charlie

Thanks for the update Mr. Lutz.

When the BLS was originally shown, I contacted GM's media contact for the story to ask about BLS being available in AWD...I was told that this was being considered for the second generation (Epsilon 2 as was referenced by Josh, above)...

This would certainly help Josh's concern about a FWD Cadillac. Bring an AWD-only BLS to the states, preferably in turbo V-6 form, and you'd have a hit. Just do it quick.

Oops, I forgot one additional point that builds on John's point about the 9-3 being profitable here, then why not the BLS...

Even if there was a problem with building a business case for the BLS built in Europe for US consumption...you do build this very same platform in a US factory (Pontiac G6 and Chevy Malibu/Malibu MAXX).

I would think that building the BLS at that plant would help alleviate some of the cost and potentially make for an easier business case. However, if it were up to me, I'd wait for the AWD Epsilon 2 before introducing it.

And don't forget the V-series version. Could be a great Audi S4 competitor.

Bob,

This is the reason I love this Blog -- the feedback. You didn't use marketing doublespeak to cover your "mistake" in the last article - you just told it straight, like it is.

So we cannot import this particular car due to costs - that makes sense.

However, I'd like you consider that since we already have the
Epsilon platform, we are very close to getting something similarly great from Pontiac or Saturn (I know that Chevy is unlikely with its "value" engines). The G6 with the 6-speed manual and VVT-enhanced 3900 engine - not to mention the rumored GXP version with a turbocharged 3.6L engine could appeal to the kind of people that are asking for the BLS.

The Saturn Aura, of course, would be the other path, and by approximating some of the great-looking, multi colored (no sea of gray, please!) interiors of upscale Opel Vectras, I can see that car being a hit here as well. Of course, GM needs to stop relying on old 4-speed automatic transmissions if it wants to be seen as a real player. There's not much fun to be had in TAP-shifing through a 4-speed.

Anyway, in a nutshell, I think it would be more than possible to give us something similar to the Cadillac BLS - if the handling, performance, and looks are there in the existing Epsilon platform cars in North America.

The upcoming G6 GTP and the new Saturn midsizer have me anticipating great things. A Malibu MAXX Cross Country SEMA concept (the better looking grille, at least) with a more performance oriented engine and tight handling would be great as well, and would be something I would buy.

What GM needs to do is make the next CTS smaller to fill the same niche as the new BMW 3-series and Mercedes C-Class, not add the BLS (and what a B...S name that is). After all the BLS is bigger than the Infiniti G35, and that car rides on a wheelbase just an inch shorter than the current CTS and offers just as much room, while the new 3 Series is wider than the CTS.

Cadillac doesn't need a cheaper Cadillac in the US — the 2.8 L CTS is priced just fine (with a 6-speed manual) — and Europe doesn't need a "smaller, cheaper" model below the CTS. A "cheap" fwd Cadillac would just divert sales from the Saturn Aura and Buick LaCrosse, and cheapen the brand when you still need to build Cadillac's cachet and desirability as an expensive, luxury brand.

What you need is a lighter, more nimble CTS. Americans won't mind if it's smaller, as long as it has enough space inside and offers the performance and refinement they desire as much as European buyers. The smaller, midsize STS was a step in the right direction. It's time now to develop a more compact CTS that both European and American buyers will appreciate. Build it in Europe for that market if you need to — Trollhatten could use the volume and I'm sure Avtotor and ZAZ would love to build Cadillacs as well as BMWs and Mercedes.

The perceived need for the BLS just highlights that you hit the wrong mark with the CTS. Bring the BLS to the US below the CTS and you just drag Cadillac down to where Buick and Pontiac need to be — not true luxury but a mid-level premium brand. If you want a cheaper premium compact in the US, make it a Buick to replace the Chinese Excelle as well.

Mr. Lutz, thanks for the attention to your commenters, and for the clarification.

That said, I still think the BLS is a short-term expedient for European capacity issues that would do long-term damage to the Cadillac brand, both in Europe and in North America.

Do you really want to dilute the distinctiveness of the brand already with global sourcing and an inconsistent product offering?

The Catera was not a success in the short, mid, or long term, as it was at variance with the essence of the brand, even if the execution had been better than it was.

GM has many brands and dealers clamoring for product in every catgory, and factories hoping to have production.

It is more important to GM's future to get the brands right, and supply them with world-competitive products.

Supplying yet another Epsilon variant to yet another brand weakens the brands, when no version of Epsilon truly beats Accord/TL or Camry/ES. Get the product absolutely top of the world and the brand dilution risk is less. But the product is not there yet, so the risk far exceeds the upside potential.

Hey RWD fanatics!

What's the fuss about RWD all the time? I would never buy a RWD - they're hopeless in the winter and being from Sweden, it was a joy the day Volvo ditched the RWD. Other RWD-icons such as Alfa Romeo, Jaguar and Mercedes have FWD cars that are a joy to drive (OK, maybe not the Mercedes, but then, they never are...).

Even worse, the discussion about a RWD Saab 9-5 is bizarre, it is like a Saab SUV with a V8 (Oh, no it already exists...)

Mr. Lutz-

Let me start off by saying congratulations on this new site. I've been visiting it since you started it a few weeks back, but have only now had the chance to put my two cents in. I wish you continued success.

Regarding the BLS, I think it’s great that GM is trying to leverage its resources to put a Caddy tailored to Euro roads and tastes on sale on the Continent. The solution will no doubt create more showroom traffic, increase sales and help alleviate the underproduction problem in Trollhattan. All seemingly good solutions to plug a product hole in Cadillac’s European offerings. Nevertheless, I can’t help but agree with Josh and some of the others who have already left there comments.

The fact that a FWD Caddy will go on sale in Europe seems to be a good short term solution for a variety of reasons. However, looking a bit further down the line, I believe it might hinder Cadillac’s desire to be fully accepted as an alternative to Mercedes-Benz and BMW. Over the past few years, Cadillac has done an incredible job of recasting its image here at home as a true luxury car brand. Acceptance of the new Cadillac styling theme and RWD offerings have been positive by both the press and consumers. Selling these same offerings in global markets like China and Europe will only help to further GM’s aim of turning Cadillac into a true global luxury brand. But to take three steps forward with these sporty offerings, then one step back by selling a FWD only offering seems like it would be counter productive. While the BLS is fine for the moment to plug that product gap, I’m afraid that if Cadillac starts to offer FWD vehicles (DTS aside) it will not only hinder Cadillac’s image, but might possibly relegate it to a second-tier luxury status much like Acura here in the States or Volvo and Alfa Romeo in Europe. Also, please consider that even though there should be a viable alternative to those offerings, Saab is currently best suited to challenge marques like Alfa Romeo, Volvo or Acura.

I think what Josh and some of the other have mentioned are valid points. When Kappa was first dreamed up, I can remember articles by Jim Queen saying that they wanted it to be flexible enough to make coupes, roadsters, and even small sedans. Why would this not be a better alternative than offering a small Cadillac on the Epsilon architecture? The very creative Australians have already demonstrated that an enlarged Kappa (or now called Beta) could be a real viable alternative in there Torana TT36 concept. Not only are the proportions and driving dynamics right on the Torana, but utilizing something like this would be a great way to create better economies of scale for other Kappa/Beta derived offerings and increase profits – something I’m sure the bean counters will appreciate.

As someone else here as stated, Pontiac still needs a replacement for the Sunfire. As GM’s “Excitement Division,” wouldn’t a great solution be a small, RWD sedan to get people excited? I could think of nothing better than such an offering to get folks lined up at the door; and Pontiac sure could use a shot in the arm right now (yes, the G6 and GTO are nice, but are not selling as well as they should – something like a small sports car with a stick could only help). And if you build a unique, high-spec Cadillac offering off the same platform, then the folks who control the purse-strings will have no reason to fret. All else failing – and the chance that the bean counters win on this particular argument – there is no reason that the BLS shouldn’t be offered with AWD standard. Such a move will not only placate the enthusiast/luxury buyer, but also further distinguish the BLS from its Saab/Chevy/Pontiac/Opel/Saab platform-mates. Besides, Audi and Jaguar gets away with this on the higher spec A4 (and A3 in Europe) and X-Type offerings – why not Cadillac as well?

Just my thoughts, Mr. Lutz. Thanks for listening.

Bob...

You're doing a good job at GM. No matter what you do, you're never going to satisfy a certain segment of car lovers - who can be incredibly snippy and particular in their tastes. The most particular 0.5% of tastes are often the loudest consumers.

You've injected a lot of life into the GM product line. After years of moving about as quickly as the Titanic, GM has really stepped up to the plate in the past few years (especially with the Cadillac product line).

As a driver of a many GM products over the years - including a Corvette and previous-gen STS currently - I'd like to offer you some positive feedback and a wish for continued improvement. I like what I see.

(On a side note: my current STS - best car I've ever owned, and no torque steer problems putting those 300hp to the ground)

OTOH, Jerry Flint in his column has a point:

Paraphrasing the point of his column:

If the BLS, brought to the US, would cost as much as the CTS, wouldn't a CTS brought into Europe cost roughly the same as the BLS?

Give the CTS a diesel option, and now you have a RWD M-class competitor priced at the C-class price target of the BLS, going for the Lexus market-entry strategy they practed with the origional LS400.

One comment...

If you can buy a Cadillac @ $30,000, and a loaded Impala at about the same price, what exactly is the point in having Buick, Pontiac and Saturn?

In the past at GM, the idea was that you progressed from Chevrolet to Pontiac to Olds to Buick and died with a Cadillac in your driveway.

In effect, there was enough range in the product pricing and content to allow all 5 divisions.

Now, since a fully optioned Chevrolet slots in right underneath a lightly optioned Cadillac CTS, the other three divisions have a horrific time differentiating themselves economically.

It's a real issue for GM to consider... and has never been adequately answered since the 1970s when the delineation was much clearer.

Now, I'm not complaining, since I'm a Chevrolet or Cadillac kind of guy, but there's really no reason for me to look at Saturn, Pontiac or Buick since Chevy and Cadillac basically span the entire market WITH OVERLAP if the BLS comes to the US.

I agree with Josh that the BLS's lack of RWD would kill Cadillac's credibility.

Ignoring your "Euro tastes" comment, I'm sure if the BLS was released here (in the US), we would've instead have a blog littered with anti-FWD comments. We'd have a blog filled with comments about why Cadillac will not be able to compete with the likes of BMW if they offer a FWD entry level vehicle. Blah blah blah.

But I agree, however, that there is a market for COMPACT LUXURY models. Luxury cars shouldn't be about size.

Finally, even though BMW et al are moving towards V8's and V10's in their performance models, Cadillac (and GM in general) should also offer performance 6 cyclinders. Possibly turboed. Again, it's another reason why Americans prefer European and Japanese cars.

You know what?

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if a FWD entry level Cadillac...slotted below CTS...wouldn't actually end up under-cutting other GM divisions. Saturn come to mind.

Honestly, what I think Caddy really needs is a smaller more nimble replacement for the RWD CTS. In Europe CTS is considered a large car...which substantially limits its global marketabilty.

A smaller CTS would obviate the need for a BLS...both here and globally...and at the same time give the STS more breathing room.

Caddy doesn't truly need two 5 series competitors (CTS and STS), they need one REALLY good 5 series competitor and one REALLY good 3 series competitor.

-Charlie

I've fallen in love with Caddy styling but most of the other GM stuff leaves me wanting for something just a little more different. I do like the new Buick - can't spell it correctly - Lucerne(?). I'm making a trip to Atlanta to see it. Ford has a winner in the new Mustang and the last decent car - the Lincoln LS is old in the tooth. Where's the great styling of GM? Why not sell the BLS in the US? A great car is a great car. Sell something that will blow away the other car companies.
Burn the Aztec and the SSR.
Any possibility of a retro Camaro/Firebird?

I don’t understand. BMW, MB and Audi build cars similar in size and specification to the BLS, ship them here and make a profit. The three series, C-class and A4 are respectfully their manufactures biggest sellers in the US. If Cadillac can’t piggyback on in-house technology and manufacturing facilities and not be able to import the BLS and make some modicum of profit something is wrong, way wrong.

Kudos for your correction. I wish other executives could be this open.

I don't like the BLS name sounds too much like BS. If its comes here on FWD, I know the autorags will mention something about that. Why not call a RWD 3-series fighter XTS. As for platform sharing let Cadillac and the rest of GM's brand except may be Saab share Kappa, Beta, and Zeta. I see Sigma as the 1.0 version of GM's new RWD cars. It's great but, Zeta and Beta can be better on ride, handling than the acclaimed Sigma.A Saturn Beta can be a traditional 3-series fighter, for those that hate I-drive and long for a simpler time when it wasn't an ordeal to change the radio station.

While I marvel at the resurrection of Cadillac and applaud those responsible, I have to wonder why there is no one charged with insuring the integrity of the Cadillac brand. The BLS, while a foot in the door product, harkens back to the badge engineering that crippled GM in the past. Cadillac's resurgence is largely based on their development and use of the proprietary, including the NorthStar engine and Sigma chassis.

A 3-series competitor from Cadillac is a fine idea, provided that it uses a proprietary rear-drive architecture. Such a move is not difficult...the new 3 is a larger car than before, and a slightly smaller CTS (in length, not width) would compete with it directly. Engines would include the 2.8 and 3.6 V-6 as well as the 4.6 NorthStar and the 4.4 SC NorthStar for the V. A slightly smaller STS (with a manual transmission, please!) tackles the 5-series and E-class with 3.6, 4.6, and 4.4 SC power. A slightly larger car than the current STS, also Sigma based, competes with the 7-series and the S-class. Power would come from a 4.6 NorthStar, 4.4 SC and new NorthStar based V-12. AWD should be made available on all models. NO PUSHRODS (as an engineer, I love them, but they have no place in a Cadillac)!

All would be built at Grand River and exported worldwide, taking advantage of today's currency issues. Pricing should be just slightly below BMW and M-B.

As an aside, AWD cars based on front-drive architectures will dilute the Cadillac brand. That recipe, along with turbocharged 4 and 6 cylinder engines, is for Saab. FWD based architectures with optional AWD is also a great plan for Buick, but with larger displacement, normally aspirated OHC engines.

Such a strategy gives GM three true luxury brands, each unique, together able to offer demographic coverage unsurpassed in the industry.

Bob--
I will replacing my lease Audi A4 in November. As a recent GM shareholder, I will in all likelihood purchase or lease a GM product. I have to tell you that I'm impressed with the fit and finish of the Vue I looked at and an employee's Trail Blazer that I've ridden in frequently.

If you look at the product lines from the majors, it seems like there is a good deal of parity on value. Natch if you want to pay 30k+, you can get the panache of an Audi or a Bimmer.

I guess my point is that it is largely a fashion/marketing play (ala the DMX 300) than product. Also, it may not shock you to learn that as gas prices have risen, the imports have the small engine advantage. But wait! The cool little Ion gets 38 mpg? That compares nicely with the Corolla... See what I mean?

Produce the Torana (beta) platform and put it on that, and then you can bring it to the states.

A Small RWD Four Door Car about the size of the 1980's 3-Series.

Just close your eyes and imagine the possibilities.

People should think before they buy foreign products as they may well cause them to end up without a job here in the U.S.A.

With the exchange rate being what it is, why can't GM export Sigma-series cars from the US and offer a significant cost savings on a world-class car? And why is a FWD car being used in an attempt to compete with the Germans on their home turf, when the US got a RWD platform?

I think that the BLS is very attractive, and I'm glad to hear of the diesel engine option (bring it over here to give us an alternative to the VW TDI - please!), but it seems to me that an attractively-priced CTS with a diesel option would find much broader acceptance in Europe. Plus, it'd help keep the Lansing plant running at full tilt.

I think some have missed the point behind brand identification and stratification. In days past, yes you progressed from Chevy to Olds to Buick and then Cadillac as your final ride to the retirement home, ignoring Pontiac as the unsung hero. (Did P fit before or after O?). For me I would never have progressed beyond the Buicks my grandfather drove. And I have stayed pretty much within the Pontiac fold by choice. A soft sprung wallowing Cadillac was never in my sights.

I did almost go for a Jaguar in recent times. X-type to be exact, but quite frankly its ride and acceleration did not compare with my Grand Prix GTP. Sure I don't have imported leather and real wood, but I can view the Jag headlights in my rearview mirror while spending the savings on other things. That said, Cadillac has now gotten my attention. You had to hit me upside the head with a sharpened stick so I would notice. (CTS) As a brand Cadillac is reinventing itself and attempting to position itself for a new and excited group of owners who not only ride in their vehicles but actually drive them.

On the subject of differential between Chevrolet and Cadillac, there has always since the '70s been the upscale Caprice with every option available, pretending to be a nimble Olds 98, pretending to be a Cadillac. Especially back then there was no comparison. An assembly line that installed power everything in each car produced a more complete package than a line that only dealt with all that fancy stuff every 20th car. Now power windows and locks and air conditioning come standard on $12000 imported compacts. More than luxury and convenience has to divide the brands. Who is going to pick a Chevy as an alternative to an Audi? But they might consider a Pontiac or Buick. Who is going to select a Pontiac over a Mercedes? Consider a CTS, instead, as a good friend of mine recently did.

OK that makes sense. But when are you gonna get a Mustang fighter for Chevy? Call it a Chevelle. Not a Camaro -- the F-bodies killed its image made them look cheap and unsporty. Give the Chevelle an SS version with an LS7 to do combat with the Shelby Mustang or Mustang GTX or what ever they call it.

First off let me mention that GM's replacement for the Sunfire is the Pursuit. For some reason it is only available in Canada. The Sunfire must not have sold well in the U.S.

In the last year or two I think GM has begun to address a few of its weak segments with products such as the Pontiac Vibe (but 123hp?)and Malibu Maxx for wagons, the CTS for a RWD sedan, Pontiac Solstice for a coupe and an excellent compact with the Cobalt.
Well Done.

But I still don't understand GM's reluctance to provide a few more options to their customers in other areas. GM has a huge product line but it seems rather repetitive. For the most part if you don't want a basic FWD sedan or a SUV there simply isn't a GM product to fill the spot. How can a company have some many products and so little diversity? Where are the excellent crossover vehicles or sporty RWD/AWD sedans and wagons? What competes with the Audi A4, BMW 3, Volvo S40, Subaru Legacy? With AWD/Wagon options which can be had on each of these cars?

These are popular, well loved cars. Why would a manufacturer NOT want to produce a product that is obviously in demand.

I'd gladly buy another GM if there was one in the segment I'm shopping.

Thanks for clarifying your words, Bob. I wish, however, that you could explain what exactly "American requirements and tastes" are. Really, what does that mean? And, for that matter, who determined them and how did they come to do so?

Additionally, I'd love to know if Chevy, Saturn, Pontiac, Buick or Cadillac offer any model in the U.S. that, by your definition, could be considered tuned to "European requirements and tastes." Off-hand, I would assume "no," given the present BLS discussion.

I ask because I am a bit confused: I'm fairly certain I am an American (in fact I know I am), but my BMW pretty much nails my "requirements and tastes" perfectly. So I am left to think one of two things: either I am in such a small minority that there is no need to offer a Chevy, Saturn, Pontiac, Buick or Cadillac product to someone like myself... or that there is a fairly large market in America for BMW, Mercedes-Benz and Audi, but that GM doesn't offer a comparable or competitive model. Am I wrong?

All of the Beta proponents here should know that it is nothing more than a hypothetical lower-midsize architecture suggested by GoAuto (an Australian industry publication), not an actual GM program.

The Torana concept's lower-dominant architecture, similar to Kappa and Premium Sportscar (Corvette and XLR), is practically the same size as the CTS — actually wider and with a wheelbase less than 1.4" shorter. Although the concept is more compact the platform is over 2" longer than that of the current GTO. Except to demonstrate the flexibility of the construction method (and the potential to offer CTS space in a smaller package), it is completely redundant.

It is obvious how much effort GM has put into creating quality vehicles that appeal to a wide range of consumers.

The Saab 9-7x and Cadillac BLS are perfect examples of this commitment to making General Motors.

As an American living and driving European cars in Europe, I would hardly be fooled by a Cadillac called BLS. (BTW I hope you consider a name change very soon, because the BLS sounds a lot like BS).

Cadillacs need to be more American, not European. Trying to sell one in Europe under the Cadillac brand will certainly be a failure. You can call the guys at Daimler and ask them how the Crossfire sales are going.

Bob,

Even though I love the new GTO, it unfortunately gets blasted because it is built in Australia. Any Cadillac produced outside of N.A. would also be horribly criticized in the various blogs. (remember the Catera?) We have the engineering expertise to produce world class Caddys right here.

To Andrew Charles:

Actually, the Torana concept is about 10" shorter than the CTS.

"On the subject of differential between Chevrolet and Cadillac, there has always since the '70s been the upscale Caprice with every option available, pretending to be a nimble Olds 98, pretending to be a Cadillac. Especially back then there was no comparison. An assembly line that installed power everything in each car produced a more complete package than a line that only dealt with all that fancy stuff every 20th car. Now power windows and locks and air conditioning come standard on $12000 imported compacts. More than luxury and convenience has to divide the brands. Who is going to pick a Chevy as an alternative to an Audi? But they might consider a Pontiac or Buick. Who is going to select a Pontiac over a Mercedes? Consider a CTS, instead, as a good friend of mine recently did."

WRONG. Caprice was a B-body, a midsize. 4-door Cadillacs (apart from Seville and Eldorado) were based off of D-bodies. D-bodies were truly large cars, and DWARFED the B-bodies. Furthermore there was a considerable amount of content you could get on a Cadillac that you could not get in a Caprice. Early on, the motors in particular were highly differentiated, and even in 1988, the Caprice still did not have a power passenger seat track available.

Cadillacs had much better sound deadening, they had much more ornate decoration (the Wreath and Crest adorned pretty much everything), better wheels, a better color selection, and much greater general content.

Now, the differences between a full-book Impala and a stripped CTS are so slight that there simply isn't any room between them.

Tell me, how much better is the CTS's leather than the Impalas? In 1975, you could tell the second you touched it... and the odds were your Caprice COULDN'T BE EQUIPPED WITH LEATHER IN THE FIRST PLACE... the peasants got vinyl! ;O)

Mr Lutz,
Why do all European imports have to be in the luxury niche? I'm talking about Saab, Volvo, Jaguar, BMW, Audi etc. Couldn't GM sucessfully import and sell Opels as Opels. They don't have to be rebadged as Saturns or Cadillacs. Could they be sold at Saturn as an Opel? Is the Euro exchange rate really to blame? I know Europe is not South Korea in terms of production costs.

The Japanese seem to have it right. Yes, they make cars in North America but they also profitably import certain models from Japan and Europe. Japan is not exactly a low cost country to produce in. On the marketing side, a Toyota is Toyota everywhere in the world. They don't always change the sheet metal for the local market. Occasionally, they might call it a Scion or a Lexus but its the same car in every market no matter what badge it carries.

Bob,

Thanks for the clarification. It is refreshing to hear someone speak from the top that knows what is going on. However, GM seems to be moving too slowly. We need to pick up the pace here.

We need homerun products that fit into each brand and scrap the rest. People are just not easily fooled anymore and there is way too much information and competition out there to not move faster.

GM needs to come to grips with too many brands and too many overlapping products. Since you are a big believer in Saturn, then Buick or another division should have to go the way of the dinosaur in its place. GM has too many brands. We need to do with Buick what we did to Olds. It's time has come, it's time has passed. Kill it and be done.

Like mentioned above, why would I go to any GM division other than Caddy or Chevy? Chevy has it all and Caddy has luxury. Buick, Saturn and Pontiac don't fit in anymore. The marketing model is flawed! Seems to work GREAT for Toyota/Lexus. Those customers know what they are going to buy when they go to that store. If you are shopping GM by price or size, there are too many choices and too many badge jobs. Some of the badge jobs are simply put "bad" jobs. Why not concentrate on the markets and segments GM really wants to be in and demand to be #1 or #2?? Anything less would be totally unacceptable. Lay down the law.

This mentality works wonders and P&G with the Tide detergent and a vast amount of other products they sell. Please don't say "cars are not soap" I don't buy that excuse. I see the problem as being GM doesn't care if it's near the top of the segment, as long as it plays in that segment. Big deal. It won't belong before people are going to prefer Hyuandis over GM cars just due to the simple fact that they want to compete at the top of the segment, not languish at the middle to bottom. Their interiors are now world class! Please explain how a 10-15 year old car company can kick GM to the curb on interiors?????? This is reprehensible. GM should be ashamed! Over 100 years in the business and the upstarts are better in quality and interiors!!! SHAMEFUL. Absolutely shameful.

Please try to fix these problems before we all end up in the unemployment line wishing we worked for Toyota.

A few comments:

A honda is NOT a honda, and a toyota is not a toyota the world over.

In the US, the accord is a very different car from the Euro accord (which we get in full-lux trim as the Acura TSX).

Likewise, Toyota doesn't have a Camry in the UK market, the bigger sedan is the Avensis (which is significantly smaller than the camry).

Also, the Japanese firms do a lot of "in market" production specifically to isolate them from exchange rate issues.

As for the comment about high end Impalas equalling (or exceeding) low end Cadillacs, thats also a consequence of the Japanese competition.

In the midsized sedan category, the loaded Accord and Camry are effectively FWD luxury cars, and thus anything competing with them will also be an effective luxury car.

What you've done with BLS, Bob, is akin to Mercedes offering a U.S-specific E-class as a mildly-rebadged 300C. I don't get it. Despite Caddy's American charisma in the States, its European presence is that of a reconstituted, front-drive Saab. Changing the underlying character of a brand in accordance with the local market is the worst strategy in the world, and indicative of a company struggling to find itself. Luckily for BMW, its management knows better. What's next? A Chinese Buick that's a rebadged Aveo?

I disagree that American and European tastes are different when it comes to cars - Trucks and SUVs - absolutely! Globally, we want a car that has style, performs well, and outlives its warranty for an affordable price. If you are suggesting that the Cobalt (Yech!) suits American's taste, then you might want to hang out at Mazda and Toyota showrooms to see what the young are buying! They don't look anything like your cavalier, oops, I mean totally redesigned cobalt.

What Bob should be saying is "CAMARO." I for one don't really car about euro styling and drving experience. Drive a euro car for that. An American car company needs to have the American driving experience and feel available in the line up as well. The GTO and Vette do that well, but a new Mustang can be had for $20,000.00 and it has the feel and the look of the American driving experiance.

GM is missing it in this catagory. Yes a Cobalt is cute playing ball witha Vette on TV, but it aint comparable to $20,000.00 Mustang. I live in a small town of less than 13,000 people. New 05 Mustang sightings are fare greater by at least 3:1 over any sort of Cobalt.

Wake up Lutz and company and do something about this before I am forced to by a Ford. Oh my God I can't belive I just said that!!

European automakers make a ton of small cars, but they do not import them into North America. Examples include the VW Lupo and the Audi A2 and A3 and Mercedes A series. In fact the new Golf went on sale last year, but the US will not get it until 2006. We are not that big of a market. We are a luxury car market.

Did you read the Harvard Business Review story on automakers and their suppliers? Interesting.

Mr. Lutz, I wish you guys would build more cars and SUVs with diesel engines in them. I'm a high net worth 37 year old doctor with no debt except a 15-year mortgage. I drive a 2002 Jetta TDI WGN. Because we just had a kid, we are planning to buy a Passat WGN TDI this weekend. Its the only wgn with a diesel engine available in the US.

I am sorry for the USA customers...but the American tastes in cars are quite different from European, for many reasons, one of them are the roads, cities, and the most important, every country of Europe is quite different from the others, for this you must design a very dynamic and versatile car that can adapt to many tastes. In USA you have many common features and didn't have those variety and difficulty (quite easy as you have one language and here we have a lot, it is a simply example) for this reason the companies has more difficulties on the design to adapt the cars in Europe, but also there is something in common, many of the roads are quite bad, the driving style is more agressive and sportier and for this reason the USA cars that many of them are more oriented to comfort.

The interiors have a "cheap" appearence...for this reason Bob said that the Cadillac is more oriented to the European tastes. Here we are more strict with the car and using the Saab base it is the best way to accomplish the requirements, because Saab is a global brand with the capability to be more dynamic in a global world you must adapt your product in a local market, and Europe it is one of the biggest markets of Saab and know how to adapt the car to europe, and how to adapt the car to USA...

Bob many thanks to take some time to read us...that's the best way to make the right product for the right market, listening the customer and making that customers feels more identified and approaching them to the company.

greetings

Dan Mercer, You missed my last point completely. (I will do a 'Lutz' and try to restate. I was only commenting on your previous comment that if you could buy a Chevy for $30k and a Caddy for $30k why would you need every other GM brand. I alluded to the 'traditional' upgrade order that seemed to exist within and between brands. Caddilac, while I was growing up, only built one kind of car - big old luxo barge. Lincoln was in the same game once the '60s hit.

Cadillac did not build a small or mid-sized car, other than the Seville, until the CTS and XLR. Please don't count the rebagding nightmare Cimmaron and the ill-fated Allante. And the Eldorado shared more than chassis layout with the "lowly" Riviera and Toronado.

While stuck in tradition, both Cadillac and Lincoln found their customer base literally dieing out from under them. Lincoln was first to respond with the LS and soon the Zephyr. Kudos to GM for building drivers' cars but realize that it is a hard battle to overcome my wife's deeply etched notion that Cadillacs are "old people's cars."

Sean M: American requirements and tastes as defined by and handed to us over the years have been the following: soft-sprung, over-damped wallowy "boulevarrd" ride with low-feedback and slow to respond steering. Seats that might as well recline and have a pouch for the remote. Power, more power, always more power. Punch the throttle on an old Caddy , but inside the passengers don't even notice.

Thank goodness for attempts to build American cars that emulate the Europeans. But, Bob, think about this: you can always give the old folks "what they want" by substituting softer springs and shocks, but you can't always "give us what we need" by substituting stiffer shocks and springs.

Charles, "actually" the Torana TT36 is "only" 6.9" shorter than the CTS, not 10", and is also 1.5" wider then the BLS. While the overall length is similar to a moderate D-segment sedan (such as the BLS), the underlying platform is practically the same size as the E-segment CTS, which was practically the whole idea from the design standpoint — to wrap a roomy E-segment platform in a compact D-segment envelope. The designers could have used the platform of the CTS (with a wheelbase just 1.4" longer), but then what would the engineers have to show? Compare the European Opel Vectra and the US-market Malibu. Both use the same version of the Epsilon architecture with a 106.3" wheelbase, but the Vectra sedan is just 180.9" long, while the Malibu is 188.4" long (an even greater 7.5" difference).

A think this site may grow out of its humble blogging roots fairly quickly. With the growing number of comments, I think the Slashdot system (or something similar) might work better.

Dear Mr. Lutz,

I know this a little off topic, but I have been reading articles in my local paper on the threat of Toyota and I was wondering what GM was doing to implement Lean techniques into manufacturing to compete more effectively, if not already implemented?

Best regards
Scott
Maryland

I would like to see the GTP retro like Ford did the Mustang. Maybe either like a 1967 or a 1969

I believe that many American consumers would welcome a "European Inspired" Cadillac (oh no, I can hear the word "Cimmaron" echoing in my cranium) with open arms. As a simple comparison, we have two vehicles today, a Saturn Vue RL and a BMW 325xi. I drive the Vue instead of the BMW 99% of the time. However, the BMW does have something that I can't find in any domestic luxury sport sedans - AWD! I would have loved to pick up a Caddy CTS instead of the Beemer, but with severe winters up in Wisconsin, AWD is almost necessary. FWD will work if snow is light, and RWD is an accident waiting to happen (no matter how many traction control options are available).

BMW, Mercedes, Volvo, and others all have active 4wd systems today. GM should be able to build an AWD Euro inspired Caddy here in the good ol' US of A, and handily beat out the foreign competition. Cadillac is enjoying a revival of sorts among younger buyers, and now is the time to move in on the competition.

As for profitability, it would theoretically be MORE profitable to build this car in the USA and export it to Europe, given the imbalance between the US dollar and Euro!

SS

PS - As for overall driving dynamics, I really did enjoy the CTS more than the BMW or Benz. The European (and Japanese) competition is bested by the CTS in other categories, namely comfort and roadholding. All of the luxo sport European sedans are very small inside - the CTS was significantly more comfortable.

If you want Americans to crave a Cadillac, built it in Europe and tell them they can't have it.

If you tried to import the thing they would all be ripping it to shreds and telling you why they would NEVER buy it.

Eduard, let me take you for a quick ride around the Great Lakes snowbelt as potholes pop up faster than you can say "Why do you have to aim for every one of them?" Oh, that was my wife talking. I can't believe European roads are worse than US (as you implied) when they build cars with 12" and 13" wheels for over there (original Mini, Fiat, Smart). Even the new 18" wheels we are getting aren't always big enough to bridge half the holes.

Dear Mr. Lutz,

As a current leaser of a CTS 2003, I enjoy the quality and comfort.

Here in Detroit as far as I can see, more and more CTS's are on the road. Let's keep the price down and quality the same, as you may know, our potholes are the worst in the nation and we need the extra suspension and AWD here.

John....not all the roads and highways in Europe are worse than USA...for example the germany Autobahn, the best and impressive highway net I saw in the world. The germans have an impressive road crew that take care of it with an impressive efficiency. But also there are many twisty roads, as many european countries.

Here in Europe the roads are more twisty, but also the important details that make different and Bob said is the style of driving, there is quite difference on that, here the people is more agressive, there you have a more higway driving more calm, more like straight line. Take alook at many of the typical American sports car of the '70s-'80s (as muscel cars) impressive power but not for taking corners, when those must be exported to Europe and other markets and come the european and japanese sport cars then the USA sport cars begun to improve his skills to be a trully sport car to every road, not only for straight road. I don't know if I am expressed clearly, but my intention is not to offend anybody.

In resume, the USA markets needs less specific features to adapt the product (Toyota failed with some models when they not adapted the cars to the cool climate conditions on the north of USA) related to cultural and specific technical features and in many ways it need less "dinamic" product, in Europe is a little more complicated in some ways.

greetings

As to those of you who are suggesting that GM should be able to sell a BLS in the US if they can sell a Saab 9-3 in the US and make money (and Bob you can feel free to comment), I would suggest that the 9-3 is not making money under normal GAAP with fully loaded costs (full load of engineering, Saab overhead, etc.) So unless you are gonna thin you fixed cost base with additional volume enough to make it profitable you are going to have to wait till Epsilon gets updated and the Kroner is no longer an issue...

And on the whole taste thing, the reality is that Europeans are far more demanding consumers of driving machines. We buy (well most) buy cars to get from point a to point b in comfort and fashion. Europeans do the same but intend to actually drive them rather than coast along talking on cell-phones, watching DVDs, etc. That is the point that I would make in ref. to Eduard

Bob--
The Caddies are great breakthroughs, no doubt, but what Glenn Chubak says above is absolutely true. The only product in the stable that compares to the cars he talks about is the Pontiac Vibe, a sister to the Toyota Matrix. Of course you could add the much more expensive STS, which is in the Jag/Audi large car turf. But it would be SOOOO great to be able to get an AWD (a la the Ford 500) in ANY Chevy, Pontiac, Buick or Saturn. I admit to simplifying things, but the General DID cobble together the 6000 STE some years back. A nice price point Malibu Max with AWD would likely KILL Subaru. Add AWD to the Ion would have Toyota worried about all the Camrys that don't have 4 wheel drive. Especially in the north, these GM cars would rule the road, whereas now they share it with sizable portion of Subies, Audis, and small SUVs like the RAV4. Maybe this doesn't happen in Detroit, but it does in Cleveland (and Pittsburg, Chicago, Minneapolis, etc.)
Keep up the great work on the blog!

"Dan Mercer, You missed my last point completely. (I will do a 'Lutz' and try to restate. I was only commenting on your previous comment that if you could buy a Chevy for $30k and a Caddy for $30k why would you need every other GM brand. I alluded to the 'traditional' upgrade order that seemed to exist within and between brands. Caddilac, while I was growing up, only built one kind of car - big old luxo barge. Lincoln was in the same game once the '60s hit.

Cadillac did not build a small or mid-sized car, other than the Seville, until the CTS and XLR. Please don't count the rebagding nightmare Cimmaron and the ill-fated Allante. And the Eldorado shared more than chassis layout with the "lowly" Riviera and Toronado.

While stuck in tradition, both Cadillac and Lincoln found their customer base literally dieing out from under them. Lincoln was first to respond with the LS and soon the Zephyr. Kudos to GM for building drivers' cars but realize that it is a hard battle to overcome my wife's deeply etched notion that Cadillacs are "old people's cars."

No, I got your point, it was just wrong - which I pointed out.

Caprices were in NO WAY comparable to a Cadillac.

Nowadays, the true content difference line between a fully loaded Impala and a lower-end CTS is far less clear, and there's not a whole lot of room (actually, price-wise, basically not enough to fit one car, let alone 3...) between them.

The Cadillac has nicer appointments and structure and powertrain, but not by much, and certainly not by enough to jam a Pontiac, a Buick and another Cadillac in there. The Impala is a darned fine car, and the sales back that statement up. People speak with their pocketbooks...

At some point GM is going to have to re-rationalize the product structure, yet again. Olds dies and then what happens? Saturn, Pontiac and Buick all turn themselves into different flavors of Oldsmobile, and all three want to be full-line with trucks and vans.

In short, two divisions are carrying their nearly lifeless bodies now - Chevrolet and Cadillac.

It's a tough, tough issue since the dealers are wrapped up in it and lots of other things enter into consideration, but it has to be addressed because right now all that's happening is a significant dilution of effort.

As a final illustration, we have Camaro and Firebird. It's my position that the Camaro's worst enemy was not the Mustang, but the Firebird - at least in the 4th gens. Why? Because every content decision that was made for Camaro automatically involved a "me too" Firebird that wasn't going to do anything but damage the business case because Firebirds were so low volume but you still had to tool everything twice.

Maybe fewer, but BETTER products are the answer. The better part is easy once the fewer happens - the entire organization can focus instead of thinking of everything in terms of three divisions.

Eduard, Greetings. I think I understand your point. A car for European conditions is naturally a sporting car. A car for American conditions does not have to be. But what we enthusiasts want is for ALL our cars to be sporting cars. Given a choice between two otherwise identical cars mnay of us here would pick the European-tuned car over the American-tuned.

For every sale you give up you grant another automaker their sale opportunity and profit window. Keep BMW and Infiniti alive with your product hole. You spare $1000 per vehicle and they make $5000 on each sale you let them have. Their executives and investors can not thank you enouph.

Lately there seems to be more holes in your net when your product range is the greatest in the world. You got to bring it Bob. All the Daewoo line, easy market share. The S3X is a no brainer in the fastest growing segmant in the industry. Opel Optra as a Buick, yeah.

It's not overlap, the room you leave between your product and brands is the holes that the imports are using to shrink your net.

You need to cast a wider net Bob and one with smaller holes.

Bob,

Any comments on the recent death of John DeLorean? It strikes me that you've ended up becoming what John really wanted to be for Detroit, a shake up of the established, conservative view of what an automobile is. We'd all be interested in knowing your perspective and relationship to John

Everyone keeps referring to the Cimmarron. Hold on, the nausea is calming. The sad thing is that marketing does its job. As much as a Cimmarron is nothing more than a crappy Cavalier with Caddy Emblems and leather seats, there were many on the road in its day. The ugly kid sold. But let's not forget, that the CTS was not Caddy's/GM's first attempt at a mid sized, Euro style Caddy, or have you forgotten (here comes, get your puke buckets) THE CADDY THAT ZIGS! THE CATERA. A disaster indeed, thank God someone got rid of that idea and replaced it w/ the CTS.

Bottom line is this. If you're going to copy to compete (BMW, Jag and yes, even SAAB, which belongs to GM), then copy it right, AWD. Audi, BMW, Suburu and yes, even VW, will be taking you seriously as competition, if you're going to use the "Euro Style" genre, then go at it, but go at it full blast.

As far as muscle, retro the GTO, or bring us a Retro CAMARO, but a true Camaro, not an Aussie built copycat w/ a new name tag and logo on it. Please, from the ground up, like the good ol' days when GM was king because of it's genius in development.

Listen to the bloggers blogging in this blog, they are your customers and they are hungry for a real GM product. It's not all about trucks and SUVs and NASCAR man, like bell bottoms, red "Michael Jackson" jackets and tight jeans, the fever will fade out. Seriously, take a chance, you did it with the Catera and Cimmarron, do it now, when the time is right. AWD, say it in your head with me, AWD, AWD, Awd.......

Mo

As Chrysler has demonstrated with the 300, and you have with the Cadillac, and, as Ford has shown in reverse with the doggy Five Hundred, the path to success lies with dramatically different styling. Heck, remember the last time you pulled out all the styling stops across the entire line ... 1959. People are still talking about those cars.

On the other hand, look like a Toyota and people will buy a Toyota.

Ed's gals and guys up at Design Center have the talent. Now how about you and the other Tube dwellers show a little nerve.

Bob: You seem to be backpeddling quite a bit these days. You did the same thing on the GTO when you said the car was NOT designed for the "older former GTO owner." Then you said it was designed for the 100k+ earner. Yeah right. Wrong on both accounts.

Mr. Lutz:

My current daily driver is a Jaguar x-type sportwagon. The 2008 CTS in wagon form would be my next California car, if you keep it trim and fast. Thanks for listening.