Zeta Not the End of RWD Performance
By Bob Lutz
GM Vice Chairman
Some news broke today about a reshuffling of our product plan, and I just want to clear one thing up before people get carried away.
Yes, we have canceled our plans to build rear-wheel-drive vehicles off the Zeta architecture. But that does not mean we’ve canceled plans to build rear-drive vehicles altogether.
We did not cancel the Zeta plans to save money, or to divert funds elsewhere that would’ve been used for product development.
We are simply reallocating resources (human and financial) to pull some other programs ahead and get other vehicles to market sooner. The press speculates this means we’re doing it to get our next-generation large SUVs and pickups out sooner. You could see how one might reasonably come to such a conclusion.
Rest assured, we remain committed to developing RWD, premium,
high-performance, affordable vehicles, perhaps even a few with a trace of nostalgia baked in.
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Bob,
That’s good and all, but when are you doing all this? 2015? By that time would have changed again, why the heck does it take so long? And you know what don’t give me the, well we need to study and reallocate our money. This is becoming a joke, I wanted a Solstice 2 years ago, not in 2005/2006. My life has changed and the market has changed, I think maybe a four seater, a la Torana, would fit the market bette now. But by the time that comes out, the market would have changed again.
Please – a great deal of nostalgia baked into them – witness the 300 and mustang, sales – both heavily, heavily influenced by ’60s designs!
Will i ever see a Velite at my Buick dealer ship? Please make it, and make it a RWD converible. thankyou.
Bob,
The Zeta sounded so promising, I was genuinely surprised to see it go. I suppose resources will be used for the new generation of GMT’s, and the Impala/Lucerne/Grand Prix will soldier on through 2009.
Will we get another RWD GM car with more than 4 seats before then?
Bob,
It broke my heart to read that. Zeta has been a line of cars I have anxiously awaited, but it is reassuring that you are still committed to RWD performance. Although as the company stands, there is not one besides the GTO in the 25-50 thousand dollar range. With all the design naysayers it has not been much of a seller even though many personally know it is an above excellent performer.
Don’t let product get out of your site. GM still needs another GTO and her stablemates too amongst the many other vehicles being developed by GM.
Dear Lutz,
Ever since I got my licence I’ve always dreamt of having an affordable rwd v8 coupe ala Camaro, but to no alas when I got my licence, guess what…they stopped making it.
I will be graduating College and I still don’t see plans reguarding how soon these mystery rwd v8’s will be out, it looks like my car dream won’t be coming from GM anytime soon, which is a shame because I would really like to support the company and not go elsewhere because I KNOW GM has the potential to do this right, like they have in the past. And before you say anything about the GTO (yes it has great power), I can’t afford it nor do the looks do anything for me or many others.
Please make our dreams come true, like you did to others in the past.
Patience is something the modern marketplace seems to lack. So the return to RWD can’t come any sooner. Nor can more info on the Solstice.
So once again, GM engages in short-term thinking.
Well that’s good to know Mr. Lutz. As you can imagine the internet car sites are abuzz with this news about zeta being cancelled. I can assume since Holden is still on track with the VE (Zeta) platform we can expect a 2007 GTO?
Good to hear, but please hurry.
Mr. Lutz,
I don’t know about this move. There was something new and fresh to be said about Zeta, that GM was getting ready to return to its trendsetting ways. Reallocating resources to push out the next gen SUV sounds like another band-aid solution to get the new products, and subsequent higher margin products, out the door. The only problem is that the SUV and large truck segment is slowly losing steam across the board, while there are lines to get hold of the 300C and Magnum. I have a feeling this wasn’t your call, Mr. Lutz. I hope Zeta returns, and so with it a resurrected GM.
What will become of the upcoming Cadillac ULS that is said to be revealed at next year’s round of auto shows? Wasn’t it reported that the ULS was to be underpinned by the Zeta platform since the Sigma platform has already reached its size limits with the smaller STS?
Oh, one more thought. Mr. Lutz, I think a lot of people would like to hear your opinion of John DeLorean’s influence on the U.S. auto industry.
I have read all of the various sites and have seen the speculation regarding why Zeta was cancelled.
If it was truly because Zeta vehicles could not meet the price points of their competitors (300C/500 AWD/Mustang), then it was the right decision.
If it was just a you-know-what match between Holden (doing the engineering on Zeta) and GM NA, then shame on you guys for not pulling it together.
Here’s the crux. Your competition has these cars NOW. Zeta wasn’t going to be here until 2008. Now, resources are being reallocated/refocused towards SUV’s and pick-ups, and a new RWD must be developed or repurposed. Unless you guys do something _now_, you won’t have RWD vehicles until 2010. By then it will be too late (much like the HHR versus the PT Cruiser), and it’s likely Pontiac and Buick will both be dead (they’re dying now without decent new product – Pontiac is in a coma as it is, at least Buick is getting product).
Time to burn the midnight oil and get cranking on awesome new products. I keep hearing how GM’s not going to hold back on new product, but delaying new RWD vehicles until 2010 seems to go against that sentiment…
RWD vs. FWD, seems to be the argument, how about styling? The new G6 is boring, the new Cadillacs look nice but people don’t get excited over them. I think that you need to take a walk over to design staff once in awhile and look at the vehicles being planned. I don’t understand how such visually boring products make it past an executive review–do they hand out blindfolds first?
Did I hear somebody say “Ala Torana” or something along those lines?
Beta? Modified version of Kappa? Shouldnt be too expensive to pull off considering Kappa is set and ready to go. A few inches here, a few inches there.
Bob, there are 10s of thousands of us out there hoping and praying for a Camaro (and dare we wish for a Firebird) to be presented.
Many are so discouraged with GM for ignoring the pleas of so many that when Ford introduced a new ‘05 Mustang and GM still hid, we considered and in some cases bought a Ford Mustang or other.
Don’t you think that cancelling the F-Body with no replacement for a Camaro/Firebird killed a lot of GM’s sales?
Don’t you agree that a Camaro/Firebird being available to the GM customer would show GM’s support of its customer base as well?
After all the Camaro/Firebird are blue collar and white collar alike and full of heritage and tradition. To kill these cars off completely is denying the customers what they are demanding.
For what it is worth, if these cars had been brought back on new chasis right away there would have been no problem.
Assuming a problem with CAW and the name… The GM could announce today that they do plan on providing their customers with a Camaro again and give some confirmation. Otherwise it just lends to the disappointments with GM.
For GM and its customers a Camaro/Firebird are needed back. Ford gave their customers what they wanted by keeping the Mustang. Shouldn’t GM show the same to their customers?
Ugh. Those new SUVs ought to be out just in time to take advantage of five dollar per gallon gas. Good luck with those.
Fans of the ‘94-’96 Impala SS (a car that sold like hot cakes, by the way) will remember this play … kill the RWD sedan off, and put the Arlington, TX, plant to “better” use producing … drumroll please … trucks and SUVs. Meanwhile, hand the entire police cruiser/taxi market over to Ford.
Good luck with this. I had been holding out hope that when my wife’s ‘99 Pontiac Grand Prix GT was ready for replacement, I would be able to put her in an “affordable performance” GM RWD car — one like my ‘96 Impala SS. Looks like I’ll get in line over at Chrysler…
GM vs Hog
Want a bit of an idea as to the trouble GM might be in (and by extension, Saab as well)?
I was really hoping when Mr. Lutz came to GM things would change. Like cars that excite people instead of the same boring vehicles they keep rolling out. For GM to be the leader they have to bring the excitement back, sorry the GTO didnt do it. Affordable good looking cars with an edge is what you need Mr. Lutz
As hinted in several internet circles this is not surprising. It’s good to see that GM has decided to go with what is best for the company and to do the right thing and not risk quality in pursuing Zeta further, and diminishing future product quality.
I only hope that we will see some kind of RWD 2-door coupe in the ponycar market soon from GM to fight the Mustang again. Regardless if it’s called Camaro (I would love it )or whatever. Gotta have it available in Le Mans Blue BTW
Mr. Lutz,
Hopefully you are reminded of this daily–Camaro–please.
I’m not crying over this. RWD cars will not be saving anyone these days. Adding some sales, sure. But crossovers, and AWD vehicles are where it’s at. And flexible platforms that you can build MANY vehicles off of. It never sounded to me like Zeta was gonna produce any major mainstream hits. Nostalgia cars won’t drive the market, aside from a fleeting (no pun intended on the fleet) moment.
Dear Bob,
This could potentially be very good news in my opinion. If Zeta is cancelled that would leave really only 3 other potential chassis for future RWD performance coupes: Kappa, Beta (Torana cocept), and Sigma. If Cadillac would let other companies use Sigma that would be ideal as when I drove the sigma cars at Auto Show in Motion I fell in love with them. If we could see a sigma based Camaro that would be a dream come true for me. Really if either the Kappa or Beta or as amazing as Sigma than I would still be very happy with that. aklthough I dont really see a kappa base V8 2+2 coupe fitting on kappa leaving Beta.
That is unless there is another unknown chassis out there?
When Bob?
All you have to look at GM’s track record for delivering on promises, both tacit and implied to realize where all of this frusration comes from.
We are all sick of promises delayed and then promises forgotten.
There are promises that don’t even need to be spoken. The world’s largest and GREATEST car maker sould acknowledge that and LIVE UP TO THEM AGAIN.
TODAY.
Bob,
With all due respect, I am not sure it’s that easy to defend this decision. What else does GM have that will allow them to get a new RWD vehicle to market in the next couple years? Would you water down Cadillac with low cost Sigma-based cars?
Or are we going to have to wait until 2010+ before we see another affordable RWD V8 performance coupe from GM? (No offense, but the GTO is a little expensive to be considered affordable in my book).
As always I wish GM the best, but I just cannot understand cancelling this promising platform just as the rest of GM’s car sales are stagnating.
Bob,
Seemed like Zeta vehicles, like the CTS-V, not only got the public excited but every employee I ran into loved them. They were already far out, now delayed more? You can’t build market share and profits by killing people’s hopes. Can’t GM make vehicles “best in class” (besides the ‘Vette, Cobalt and Solstice) so when consumer’s go to make a purchase, the best car for their money will be a GM car?? Remeber, the consumer is always right no matter how biased their opinion may be, as they are the ones giving GM money.
But why did GM need Zeta in the first place? Sigma-1 is already and awesome AWD/RWD platform capable of 440 HP … it’s been designed and been proven. Why can’t GM just decontent Sigma-1, make it a volume platform and keep Sigma-2 exclusive to Cadillac. I’m sure it could be built faster than Zeta. And I don’t think the press would bash a Velite built off an old Caddy platform, as the 300/Magnum received no criticism from being based of the old Benz platform.
“…a bit of nostalgia baked in…? Please! You’ve already botched up the GTO. Let the great musclecars rest in peace. Retire the Camaro, GTO, and Firebird name just like an NBA team retires the jersey # of a great player.
Bob,
Are you going to let Ford beat the heck out of GM with their new Mustang? I sure hope not.
I have been a “VERY” loyal GM fan. I have been driving/owning GM cars/trucks for the last 15 years. With all the other manufacters coming out with some cool cars now, my loyalty will be hard to stay with GM for the next 15 years unless you actually bring all these concept cars and such to market. (Colorado SS Crew Cab with LS2)
With the price of gas these days ($2.19 for regular in Columbus, OH) and what is to come, $2.75/gallon+ for regular, people are going to really think about buying these big trucks and SUV that you want to make more of.
Take a chance and start producing some exciting affordable RWD V8 sports/muscle cars. I want a 2007 Camaro!!!
Bill
Mr. Lutz,
I applaud this decision to allocate resources to other important programs.
Business redesign takes time, especially in the automotive industry, where results won’t be seen until five years “down the road.” These new MY 2005 products desperately needed to be hits, however the fierce market, consumer perception gap, and “not-100%” products are factors to blame for the cars’ mediocre success. While the first two factors won’t change anytime soon, the quality of product can. I look forward to seeing consistent “leaps & bounds” of improvement in future GM products, and anticiapte the day when GM cars & trucks recapture the ballsy, segment leading (and defining) times of the past.
P.S. Best of luck with the UAW. No matter how well business is done, an extra cost of $1500 per vehicle is an unbearable competitive disadvantage.
Bob,
I was also disheartened to read the news that the Zeta line was canceled, though I’m not an expert on what that means exactly. Rear wheel drive is an important market for cars. Is there chance it will be restored when the Fiat charge is paid off?
But it’s just as important to have great cars. I guess we’ll just have to trust that you won’t let us down regarding the car line-up. I think what the media is missing is that GM customers like you a lot. I would really like to keep seeing nice new cars from GM like the G6, CTS, STS, Solstice, and maybe a new Camaro, and so on, not just trucks, and SUVs. (love the Escalade, and H3T hummer). Have a mix with some that get good gas mileage.
The media pummels GM with negative speculation, thats why sales are down too, all the unfair media spin as well as the weak economy.
If you can, do something about health care costs for GM, get a concession for the $1000 deductable, try harder. (The whole country is in trouble).
A few of your cars may need to look a little sharper, But I love several of them like the CTS, STS, G6. The G6 is wonderful, but you haven’t challenged enough people to test drive it, and you haven’t targeted it against its competition often enough. You gotta get tougher with the perceived challenge. People won’t notice until you make the challenge. Why wait?
The GXP is great too, but the style is due for a refresh, I heard you sell a lot of the Northstar GXP, because GM sounds competitive on the Northstar, Customers believe in it. You have to stop letting the media pummel you. Be stronger, because your products are stronger. Tell them your customers said so.
I can’t believe you guys let the media keep running you down. When they run GM down, they are running us down, your customers.
Bob,
I (and thousands of GM fans) are disappointed in the news about Zeta. I hate to say it, but even some of GM’s biggest fans are starting to loose hope on the company.
GM has some serious product issues that need resolved if the company plans to compete.
Issues…
1) TOO MUCH PRODUCT OVERLAP. A prime example is the G6 GTP and Malibu SS. Why even bother building the Malibu SS when it offers just about the same things as a G6 GTP? Other than the manual.
2) Pontiac. Pontiac is the excitement division…correct? Well, the recent products show no more excitment than their higher-end Chevy counterparts. Give Pontiac some uniqueness mechanically, not just design wise. I should also point out that Pontiac’s newest designs are great.
3) Lack of RWD sedans. It is nice that Caddy has all RWD products (that is the way it should be), but the other divisions need them too!
4) Camaro. Lets face the facts here. The Camaro needs to return. GM needs a boost, and a Camaro (if done correctly) will do that. I think GM would gain a lot of fans by doing so also.
These comments are coming from someone who is a major GM fan and just wants to see the company get back on its feet.
The Zeta decision is disappointing, but if GM has a better use for these development funds, then so be it.
One suggestion: Is it possible to leverage other RWD platforms to create some exciting vehicles? I’m specifically referring to Kappa or SSR. I would love to see a new Chevy Nomad, either the 2004 concept version of the Nomad, or better yet a V8 version built from the SSR platform. The time is right for a stylish, performance-oriented wagon with crossover versatility.
Bob,
To encourage the fan-base, you need to assure us of a few things.
We need to hear that your commitment extends beyond the Corvette, which fits the definition of “high performance, affordable vehicles” and that “RWD performance” does not mean a RWD Silverado SS.
We need to hear that Pontiac is not up on the chopping block.
We need you to be more clear about the direction GM is headed in:
Is it towards a future where Saab, GM Daewoo, and Saturn figure more prominently in your plans than traditional GM brands like Pontiac and Buick? Will GM be as fickle to its long-time brands as it has been to some of its long time nameplates?
Most of all we need to hear that GM has a clear direction that will continue to please enthusiasts, and that GM’s plans do not change with quarterly earnings reports, and the whims of corporate bean-counters.
Zeta was just a name. Rumor has it that All-wheel-drive is where GM is headed. Prove to us that there will be something equivalent in performance – something like a Subaru WRX from your new platform – not like a tepid Ford Five Hundred.
And prove to us that we won’t have to wait 5 more years to see these performance cars.
If your plans are focused on SUVs, mediocre AWD sedans with no performance pedigree, and “almost good enough” cars benchmarked on the competitions offerings from 5 years ago and employing 10 year old engines and transmissions…then I’m throwing in the towel, and the Solstice may be the last GM product to catch my eye, and perhaps the last great purpose-built performance car of a brand doomed to corporate cost-cutting.
One question: What about the Cadillac ultra-luxury sedan that was supposedly going to use an upgraded Zeta platform. Is that gone/postponed too?
- HCE
Chill guys…read it again. Read the last paragraph again…. Did you ever think that Lutz may have a few tricks up his sleeve that don’t revolve around the zeta platform? My vote is that Firebird will be reborn. And you are going to have to fight me at the dealership to get that first spot…I got faith in ya Lutz…
So sad. Why a company with such rich traditions and exceptional talent cannot escape its own shortsightedness. I have been waiting for 25 years for GM to turn the corner. I can remember the PR and car magazines when the J cars came out and how they spent billions, tearing aprart Honda Accords and how this car was the turning point for GMs resurgence as a global competitor. Didn’t happen then and won’t happen now.
Sure quality is up but so is everyone’s – it’s a tougher market now and it is an illusion to think there is time for such delays in bringing out product that is needed now. I don’t want to buy foreign but what’s an enthusiast to do? I have a Saab not but that brand is also being neglected in true GM fashion. Mazda or Ford for me next time.
Mr. Lutz, please look at what you and the other execs at GM have done to that company. GM has very little in the way of offerings anymore. You produce no exciting vehicles anymore, other than the Corvette which is way out of most common people’s range. GM is becoming a joke, compared to Ford and Chrysler.
Sadly, I feel I can accuretly predict your sales going right to the basement while the others, who know how to design vehicles the current market is after, will be adding floors on. Another sad day for somebody who really would like to buy GM, but just can’t.
I suppose what I don’t understand is why GM seems to mess up everything that’s good.
People had faith in GM rolling out these fresh new designs – we thought that with Lutz in charge GM was finally realizing their past mistakes and trying to correct them.
And then you go and cancel the Zeta platform in order to build products like the Trailblazer SS – an SUV that no one is going to buy Mr. Lutz. Have you not looked at gas prices lately? Puting an LS2 into a vehicle that already has bad gas mileage isn’t going to help the situation.
I see Ford making their SUVs with hybrid options, yet GM seems to think that people want gas guzzlers. Bob, why isn’t GM making a Trailblazer hybrid?
And another problem is that since there is so much overlapping with the brands nowadays, some of your brands have to reason to be in existence.
Take Pontiac for example. Why would anyone want to buy a Pontiac (with the exception of the GTO) or a Saturn when you can get a Chevy that’s cheaper and more likely than not, better made.
Buick has no practical purpose anymore either since Cadillac makes cars that fall into Buick’s price range (i.e. Cadillac CTS, BLS, etc.)
And GMC should just merge with Chevy since they’re all the same trucks underneath the badging anyways.
Another point I’d like to make that many others have made. Why is there no pony car from GM? I want my Camaro back Bob! I see Ford with their Mustang, Mazda with their RX-8, and Toyota with a (rumoured) 2007 Supra, yet GM seems to lag behind the competitors. What gives?
GM should be a leader in the auto industry, not the follower of the imports and even other domestics such as Ford.
We Pontiac fans do need some answers, is Pontiac going the way of Oldsmobile? Solstice is great, but it needs to have another performance car in the line up, the ‘05 gto is much improved as was the ‘65 over the ‘64, don’t give up on this car, keep improving it. The G6 is great in most respects, but it’s too pricey, make the 4cyl make up for that. Then where is a entry level replacement for the Sunfire?
Please Mr. Lutz, don’t make the mistake of putting the GTO on “hiatus” before a new one built either here or in Australia can debut. It was a mistake for GM to halt F-body’s in 2002 and leave Pontiac without a RWD performance car for two years. I hope this mistake will not be repeated with the GTO. By ending F-body production GM handed over without a fight the lowest end of the RWD performance market to Ford.
By the way, please make the next goat’s front end like the 1966-67 GTOs (Less flat than Caddy’s CTS nose). I think it would look great to have glass covered round projector beam headlights vertical on the fenders. You could even include the parking light/turn signals underneath the same glass (no need to have separate turn signals in the grilles).
Thank you for reading my little idea and for listening to a loyal GM customer.
Well, thanks for the news! To think I would have waited until 2010…
*Drives off to the nearest Chrysler dealership for the 300C…*
Lutz, I’m really hoping you’ll pull something out of the bag here. Things aren’t looking too good. I’m hoping the SUVs will at least be somewhat competitive, especially in terms of design. I’m getting bored of lackluster products. Give me something that my neighbors will envy…
Let’s see if I got this right…stop the zeta platform so we can hurry MORE SUV and pick-up models out just as the market for those vehicles is in a nosedive. Now let’s look at the price of gas for the forseeable future…think 3-4 dollars per gal.
OK, let’s have a do-over.
Bob,
As a current ‘02 Z/28 owner, I am disappointed that a RWD vehicle has been delayed for Chevy. But at the same time, I do understand that it is important to accelerate other more profitable, volume product programs. I only wish GM had the resources to do both. I have faith in your decisions, and hope for the best in these difficult times.
C’mon Uncle Bob, give us SOMETHING to hope for. When GM cancelled the Camaro, part of Chevrolet’s soul died with it. Yesterday, I passed a glorious ‘55 Roadmaster Riviera coupe on I-20, and it’s shameful to look at that against what Buick has become now. Today’s FWD nags…a surplus commodity new… will never be classics. By the way, ever thought of giving Saturn & Saab to FIAT instead of cash?
People shouldn’t get bent out of shape about Zeta, especially in light of the fact that GM has another platform that will fit the rwd bill at a lower cost with greater structural rigidity and flexibility.
Bob you are playing your cards right on the nostalgia angle. Understanding the importance of the companies’ heritage will be key in GM’s turnaround. Look at what Ford has done with the current Mustang. GM has many great models from the past to resurrect. Bring some of them back and keep those current long time model names. You will find many people identify with Grand Am, Grand Prix etc.
Many of us really would like to buy a GM product, but you don’t currently offer an affordable version of “gotta have.” Make mine mid-engine.
Camaro!!
Does this mean we’re not getting an El Camino?
I just have to say that I am EXTREMELY dissapointed in GM. I have been loyal to you for my entire life. Now I’ve just given up. Please, get a clue. GM killed the Impala SS in its prime. That was the last car I really loved from GM. Now we are given some hope with the Zeta platform, and now that’s scrapped for trucks!! With gas nearing $3 a gallon where I’m at, fullsize trucks and SUVs are not looking as attractive.
I have been waiting for a powerful rear-wheel drive car for years. GM is NOWHERE in sight. I never thought I would say this, but I am looking at the Chrysler, or Dodge for my first new car… or dare I say FORD!! (I never thought I’d say that).
But GM has a track record for bad predictions. The 2 door coupe was a market that was not hot. Well, so let’s kill the Camaro! Now go forward a couple year… Ford has increased Mustang production by 70%!! Or 4k units a week! Yeah, that segment is really dead….
And don’t make the same mistake with the GTO. 2 dr. performance is in… just not with a bloated, bland Grand-Am looking import with a new front bumper.
And please, give me something to look forward to. Sorry, but the G6 is nothing special, and the convertible looks just like a rebadged Solara. The new Buick LaCrosse looks no more special than the Regal… I actually like the Regal more! Give me something that would put a grin on my face… not another fwd rental car.
Sorry to sound so angry, because I am! It just hurts so much to watch the company that I have bought from, and supported my whole life go down the drain by both Chrysler and Ford. Excuse me, but now I have to go onto Ford.com to order my Mustang brochure… apparently the brochures are like the cars… they practically fly off dealership lots.
For *****’s sake, just slap a Chevy bowtie on coupl’a left-hand drive Holdens and call it a day. It’s bitterly ironic that before DC came up with the 300 platform the =real= American cars were available only in Australia.
The Monaro-Goat’s had some trouble, but that’s because it’s styling would be shiny and new in ‘96. The sedans and wags in the full size Holden lineup look pretty fresh, tho. Yoi can call the Ute as an “El Camino” and sell a bazillion of ‘em.
Look at it this way, with the Five Hundreds flopping like a fish on the dock, you know it’s only a matter of minutes before FoMoCo imports left hander Falcons. Lead or play catch up.
Pull ahead pickups and SUVs? Whose genius idea was that? So that you can give them away at $1500 less, versus selling the RWD cars (someone’s selling C300s without much effort) that all of us WANT to buy?
And with SUVs and pickups, how do you intend to tackle rising fuel costs? Silly starter-alternator ‘pretend’ hybrids? If you wanted to get profitability and/or growth (concepts foreign to GM lately), why didn’t you invest in more crossovers? Even Ford gets it (Freestyle):(
This is the result of a complete lack of understanding of the shifting customer preferences.
If you really wanted to free up cash, I’d look at reducing structural costs and face unions and health providers head-on, and cut the same bureaucracy that’s coming up with ’stellar’ ideas like ‘let’s do SUVs faster’!! Obviously, managers have very little interest in the welfare of the real owners (to refresh their memory, I’m referring to the poor souls who may be silly enough to hold GM stock)
I’m beginning to wonder why things so obvious can be so difficult to understand. But may be it’s not such a surprise. If your product development guys knew what really worked, GM wouldn’t be in the soup it is today.
Great job, everyone!! You have already declared intellectual bankruptcy.
Bob,
I am glad to hear you’re still at least verbally committed to RWD performance. Nevertheless, I am still extremely discouraged by what I hear coming out of GM. It sounds like you guys are putting everything off and relying on your SUVs. Pardon my saying so, but that sounds like a REALLY bad idea. You are basically placing the fate of your corporation upon the reaction of a fickle public to one specific vehicle and upon the whim of OPEC.
It also sounds as if you are just holding out a carrot to Camaro enthusiasts, ambiguously promising RWD performance and yet providing no details, not even a clue as to when we might expect these vehicles. The bottom line is that if GM had been run at all like it should have been, there would have been an all-new Camaro in 2003, and would also not be in a position where it has to rob from its future simply to provide for the present.
As on ‘04 GTO owner I am very disappointed with this news. We need to hear some answers on the future of the goat. Will ‘06 be the end of the legend?
Bob,
Let me start out by saying I’m a huge GM fan. I’ve owned 5 GM vehicles in the past and I currently own 3 (all Corvettes). Being a GM fan out here in California is painful – let me explain:
In California, GM is already a niche manufacturer. That’s right, I said niche. The imports have marginalized your entire car product line, with a rare exception or two. The next phase, already under way, is when Toyota and Nissan marginalize your truck and SUV business.
Here is an example to show you how bad it is getting for GM in California. I drive two hours, roundtrip on crowded freeways to work each day – recently I’ve started to count the number of GM cars that I see during my commute.
Out of HUNDREDS of cars each way, I’ll see about 10 or so GM cars, usually older Buicks driven by senior citizens, or a Malibu with a rental car barcode sticker.
The sad fact is, with the exception of GM fullsize trucks/SUVs, and the Corvette, GM is not relevant in the California auto market. If you don’t believe me, have one of your marketing analysts run R. L. Polk data for the San Francisco Bay Area.
If anyone can help turn this around, it is you Mr. Lutz – you are GM’s only hope.
Good luck.
Mr Lutz,
Why have you cancelled a fine platform like the Zeta? It certainly seemed a worthy competitor to many high end Japanese and German rivals – without matching the engineering of your rivals, you are dead! You simply must realize, as I do, that GM’s future cannot be so intertwined with the fate of large, thirsty trucks and SUVs, regardless of their profit margins currently…oil prices will continue to climb – that is certain…the refinery capacity shortage in the US alone makes this so. As prices climb, buying habits will change – trucks/SUVs will be a much harder sell, meaning the rebate quagmire you now find yourself in at GM will continue…
For GM to succeed you MUST:
1. Build quality CARS! GM has GOT to stop relying on TRUCKS, and must become a CARBUILDER again…the new SATURN Aura looks like a step in the right direction.
2. Get rid of the rebates! Rebates cheapen the perception of your products, and are RUINING YOU! The G6 is a nice car, but that’s about it – not that noticeable…
3. Do some grass roots research – talk to professional people who are now buying Lexus/Audi, etc. – forget the focus groups, Mr. Lutz –> invite some folks to meet with you for a weekend, and listen to what they have to say…I would bet you they will shed a lot of light on solutions to perception problems about current GM products…what do you have to lose? The G6/LaCrosse/Cobalt vehicles are not really common sights on the roads…the SCION released at about the same time is, however…YOU ARE NOT DOING SOMETHING right…you need to do something different.
The road back for GM starts with listening!
Dr Edward Alexander
Lexington, Ky
Sorry Transam, you’re living in a pipe-dream. Firebird has absolutely no chance of coming back. Just be happy to see a re-born Camaro!!
Well, my faith in GM has gone out the window. The reports of huge profit losses for GM and now this. I dont know why every step of the way General Motors seems to have to shoot itself in the foot.
So, we’ve lost the low-cost modular platform and are now left with Sigma which, from what I hear, is far too expensive to use for cars like the much longed for Camaro. There are rumblings around that the Camaro will be coming, but we want more than vague allusions and rumors from the internet. One official announcement about a returning Camaro is all it would take for most of us to keep the faith for another few years.
If not, oh well, another door shut on those of us who long for domestic performance for less than $50,000. I hear Ford is ready and willing to take us GM refugees though.
I hope that will help GM to make it more competitive in his core business and core segments…consolidate and concentrate in some areas to attack to other segments later…I hope that will work.
The big question is…for example Saab loosed about 2-3 years of product development thanks to a bad “management” of the project, continous “cancels” of new products, it is quite disapointing to see a 9x and 9-3x with 80% of parts ready to mass production and no possibility to do it (BMW will do a SUV coupe, like the 9-3x and Saab developed the idea, now we saw the idrive system or similar systems that will be used by Mercedes or the MMI, when Saab showed it in the 9x and uses a similar system in the 9-3ss, the infotaiment). My question looking at this Saab engineering not used or minimally used…what will happen to the 9-5??????? As you said many times it can be designed in the Zeta platform with AWD and build in USA…you will use the Epsilon2??
I hope you have decided it and the ideas very clear, because Saab cannot efford more delays in his product lineup (now he loosed the production, please don’t let him to loose his lineup).
greetings
I really wish GM would consider a RWD performance station wagon model. I have a 2000 Impala now, but would love to see an Impala wagon. My next car will likely be a Dodge Magnum.
With no “real” rear wheel drive sports coupe on the horizon…that 350z is looking real good now. The GTO is bland and dead in ‘07.
Bob,
Has GM considered what will happen to the truck and SUV market when consumers tire of the poor fuel economy? Unless car platforms are shared and brought to market at all price points, not just the premium profit generating models, GM will be seriously behind the 8 ball and a rethink my be too late. Granted, the performance enthusiast market is considerably smaller, but their shared lesser performance models will drive the profits and ensure product loyalty. GM does this with models like the CTS, why not other makes and not just your upscale division? Forcing consumers to look upscale for performance is in fact driving consumers to other manufacturers. I hope the trend reverses quickly. I haven’t owned a Ford in 20 years and I’m close to doing it again.
I was really, really looking forward to a redesigned GTO. I don’t care if it’s called a GTO or not. I just want a powerful, aggressive (but mature) looking, RWD/AWD, two door hardtop for about 25K to 35K that doesn’t have any adolescent wings or non-functional scoops.
I’m 44 years old, and I need something for my mid-life crisis soon….
Mr. Lutz,
Time for GM to make lemonade from the lemons, its survival is at stake as never before.
Cancelling Zeta is an opportunity to abandon incremental change and embrace real, future needs, given the long lead time of development. Firebird and Camaro are unaffordable distractions.
New future platforms should be engineered with significant weight savings, the existing fleets continue to bloat requiring ever-thirstier engines. High fuel costs after 2010 will require world-class engineering with very significant weight savings while maintaining utility and safety.
Your design teams need to look forward so products are competitive by the time they roll out.
GM cannot afford to compete in the mid-market by offering both smaller Epsilon platform and larger Grand Prix/vans/Lacrosse when Toyota and Honda design a single, excellent platform for the market segment and gets it right. Focus your resources and look forward, not backward. US needs a successful GM.
Bob, should have changed Solstice name to Firebird, beefed up the HP output, offered a Camero brother for Chevy and saved yourself a lot of grief.
I think we have seen this play out before…put all your eggs in the SUV basket and delay or cancel car programs. GM has already handed Ford all the pony car and police cruiser business because they wanted to build more SUVs. They need to step quickly to provide a capable RWD/AWD sedan (Sigma1??).
Mr. Lutz-
Shouldn’t one do what one excells at? Let’s face it, GM has never been any good at producing FWD, economy, or small/compact cars. The new Cobalt is the first GM FWD car in 20 years that is even worth spending the gas money to go and look at, but it still took 20 years!! My family and I have bled GM orange since I can remember.
GM is what made get my Automotive Engineering degree. When I went to work for Jaguar, I worked with a number of great people, but all who were of the Ford devotion. I still held my ground and flew my “Bowtie” flag in the sea of Ford blue. I own what I feel is one of the best GM cars ever built, the 1996 Impala SS and my hopes were that I would be able to purchase a new RWD sedan from GM with all the power and attitude my ‘96 gives, but GM has only toyed with my automotive emotions once again by going to another FWD Honda lookalike. If I wanted a FWD, I would go to Honda since they know what they are doing when it comes to smaller FWD cars.
GM used to know its RWD cars, but it seems you have a SUV identity crisis! You even went ahead and produced a truck called the SS Silverado, but one that cannot compete with the likes of Ford and Dodge, unless back by SEMA. Jon Moss produced an SS Silverado that could compete…GM said it didn’t want to get into a “niche” market. Oh you mean a market that has loyalty and the ability to pay more for a vehicle that has a soul?! I worked building muscle cars, toiling over them because they have a commanding presence and feel to them. They were the cars that could call you out to the garage to take a drive in the middle of the night.
The automotive game is at it toughest point now due to all the players with their quality products, but it takes a company with a solid performance and style division to stand out and step away from the “Cookie Cutter” cars. Please Mr. Lutz, I do not want a cookie, I want a RWD V8 car other than Corvette.
Bob,
Shifting resources to work on what? Without a massive outpouring of cash to rush suppliers into producing, anything that is within a year already set in stone.
GM is still the master of platform sharing with the W-body, epsilon, theta and delta platforms. Why not take the lead from Chrysler and share the RWD platform along all the brands? They are not keeping the RWD platform just to the Chrysler brand. I understand that the Chrysler RWD platform is really just the previous generation of the E-Class from MB but still they already have 3 vehicles off of that platform.
All of this leaves me to think there is something else very big coming down the pipe from GM.
Bob, find a ‘67 Z28 Camero and take it for a spin, you will notice how very basic these cars were. And because of that, they were cheap to manufacture. They were also fun as h**l to drive. Here’s a concept: take the new GTO, throw away the body and replace it with a restyled ‘67 Camaro body. Keep the interior conservative, and the total cost down around $20-22k. Young folks can afford this and old f**ts like us can enjoy them too.
I like driving my ‘99 Mustang GT every bit as much as my ‘99 vette hardtop at half the price, (drive one of these too!) but Ford is following in GM’s footsteps (Camaro/Firebird) in pricing the new Mustangs out of the reach of the average workers. All the kids I talk to love the new Mustang but how can a young couple with kids making 10 bucks an hour spend 30-35k on a new car? $20-22k is still a lot for them but more of a possibility.
thanks for the blogsite
Truth, Lie or Bull?
Yesterday, I wrote about the difference between lies and bullshit.
Bob -
I applaud and admire you for getting so many critically important changes implemented at GM in such a short period of time. However… (you knew that was coming) -
With the Zeta platform, GM was already in hair-on-fire catch-up mode. Now you’re going to be half a decade behind the curve. I understand your legacy costs are killing you, and there’s not much you can do about that short of a government bailout.
Only two things can save GM now: World-class product and consolidated product lines and brands. You have many more genuinely competitive products now than you used to. But you still have a lot of dogs, a mind-boggling array of overlapping products, and a bunch of unloved, overlapping, cannibalizing brands.
I think now would be the perfect time for GM’s leadership team to announce a complete reorganization of GM. That would delay the inevitable GM Death Watch and lend a lot of credibility to your plans to save GM.
GM needs only 3 brands: Buick, Chevrolet, and Cadillac (plus your niche/specialty brands like Hummer under a premium umbrella group). You don’t need Pontiac around as the “sporty” GM brand unless you intend to make Chevy the “dull, lifeless” brand. Do you?
You don’t need a redundant GMC trucks division unless you plan to stop making Chevy trucks. Do you?
You don’t need Saturn around as the brand that’s competitive with the Japanese unless you plan to make uncompetitive Buicks and Chevies. Do you?
You don’t need thirty thousand variations of the same product and you don’t need to waste another PENNY inventing spurious, absurd distinctions between nearly identical brands. Do you?
You don’t need hordes of middle managers writing PowerPoint briefs that attempt to explain the difference between Saturn and Chevy and Pontiac. Nobody gives a crap, Bob. No more sacred cows!
GM is still structured more or less like it was in the 1940s. Toyota’s about to eat your lunch and they only have 2.5 brands. Plus, GM could run circles around Toyota, design-wise, if it wanted to. Consolidate, consolidate, consolidate. Or die.
As far as product goes – GM can’t afford to be make the necessary world-class improvements to its entire model line. It’s too big a job. Therefore you need to start killing redundant and/or crappy models ASAP (which, to be fair, you’ve already started doing) and focus all your resources on building 2 or 3 really, truly, genuinely world-class mass-market cars. More Cobalts, but no more Malibus and La Crosses.
GM is like a huge, diseased old shrub desparately in need of pruning. Chop away, Bob. Nobody has any illusions about the severity of GM’s problems, so if now isn’t the time to make these urgent structural changes, they will never be made and GM will die.
Bob,
I was the 3rd person in my city to own a 1993 Camaro Z28. I fell in love with the car the very first time I saw it and modified it to the extreme. It was the first car I ever bought and I plan on passing it on to one of my children.
My wife and I are currently looking at buying another RWD sports car. The only reason we haven’t jumped on a new Cobra is because of the morsels of info thrown down to us about the possibility of the Camaro returning in the near future.
I guess what I’m trying to say is: Whatever you do, do it fast!
We are going to miss the boat and Ford will dominate this market of RWDS. Much like the HHR launching this summer we are 3-4 years to late.
Bob,
If anyone understands product at GM it is you. Allow me to offer a few suggestions on product based on my observations of GM and the market for the last 20 years or so.
First, every division needs a flagship product or even two if the funds are there. For Chevrolet that car is the Corvette and not much more needs be said about that. However, Chevrolet needs to build on all its successes and one that springs immediately to mind is the previous generation Impala SS. That car still trades well on Ebay. What Chevrolet needs to do is bring back that rounded, swaggering design – much the way that Porsche revisited the 993’s style for the new 911 – and update it for the here and now. This means keeping much of the visual signature while shortening the car by several inches. Think C5 to C6 when eyeballing the old Impala SS. You could not build them fast enough.
Pontiac. It goes without saying that the division’s GTO flagship has met with some resistance. We all know what the reason is. If you can update the bodywork with some of the killer concepts GM has already shown you should be fine. The interior and mechanical bits are already world class. But for the second Pontiac halo car you need to develop a vehicle that generates heavy press and goes after the imports where GM has yet to tread. I speak of the Subaru WRX Sti and Mitsubishi’s legendary Evolution series (the wonderful Solstice is not a backup halo car). Pontiac’s answer should be a pumped-up fender flared, AWD, 330hp bi-turbo Vibe that GM should IMMEDIATELY take rally racing to enhance credibility in much the same way as they have done with the Vette. Then make sure that brand building video game makers like Sony Computer Entertainment America (SCEA) have a version of that car available for their Grand Turismo series which made the WRX and Evo household names. The pumped up Vibe should attack the Evo and WRX where they are weak, day-to-day livability. If that can be addressed while exceeding their performance they will be mortally wounded. You will know the Vibe’s performance is ready when it can beat those cars at the new Milford Road Course. If you put a paddle shifter in it the import crowd will faint dead away.
Buick. I am shocked and amazed that for the past decade not one word has been breathed about the most obvious contender for Buick’s flagship. It is a name that resonates with enthusiasts of all stripes and which in its day inspired respect and fear from just about everything else on the road. I speak of none other than the legendary Grand National. Bring that coupe back with a knockout body powered by a twin-turbo 380hp V6. Tuners will handle the rest. As for the rest of Buick, they showed a Lacrosse concept car in 2000 which should have set the tone for the design language of the division. I was 30 years old when I saw that car and for the first time in my Corvette driving life wanted a Buick. Then came the production Lacrosse. To echo the buying public, no thanks. Pulitzer prize winning auto journalist Dan Neil perfectly summed up my disappointment with his 1/26/05 column entitled, “What a missed opportunity.” You should read it twice, carefully. Pay particular attention to his assessment of the 2000 Buick concept car and the belief that its design needed to be toned down lest it alienate Buick’s core clientele. It is not too late to have the designer update that design and have at it again. The Velite is not the answer. Trust me.
Cadillac. Firing on all cylinders. Keep it up. When people talk about the perceived horsepower deficit with the European bluebloods be sure to point out that comparable V-cars have more torque(think STS-V and M5). By the way, I hope you are not seriously considering a $100K flagship sedan. Concentrate instead on an S-Class, 7-Series competitor with standard AWD that starts at $65K with options that push the price up to $80K. If you develop a V-12 version of that, hold the price to no more than $95K loaded. Otherwise Cadillac is doing very well and everyone knows it.
GMC. Doing well. Just make the killer mesh grille available on even the Envoy replacement. It is GMC’s signature style and does the brand well.
Saturn. Has no reason for existing. All its products can and should be offered through Chevy and Pontiac along with Saturn’s award winning customer service approach. One day GM will come to this realization the hard way, on its knees. The company should act now to pull the plug while it can still do so with some dignity. The brilliant Aura sedan and Sky convertible can be badged as Chevrolets. Both those divisions already have minivans. And for pity’s sake have GM get some pride and stop using Honda transmissions in their Saturn cars. Are we seriously expected to believe that GM cannot find a transmission of its own for its cars? Has Honda ever used a GM transmission for its cars? Do you think they ever would?
Saab. Sell it. They make Swedish Buicks. GM already makes perfectly American Buicks. I mean honestly, take the badges off a Saab 95 and a Buick Lacrosse and tell me, aside from their styling, what is significantly different about them mechanically? What are we bid for GM’s redundant Saab division?
Hummer will be fine when the H3 ramps up. GM should launch a high-profile humanitarian campaign featuring Hummers to deflect some of the criticism of the brand. Think relief efforts and or endangered species protection featuring donated Hummers. Advertise it heavily but with a message that puts the cause first and the product second but still clearly prominent. Let the greenies chew on that conundrum.
That’s it for now. The Corvette is brilliant and I am on my second one. The Z06 looks killer and I may yet spring for one. Put a paddle shifter in it and I am off the fence. Keep the Corvette racing. I live to watch them.
Then again….
Did we all over-react to the news that Zeta was cancelled???
Bob Lutz says yes in his newest GM Fastlane Blog
Speculation continues to swirl, but i feel GM has something up their sleeve. Lutz hints that the press is speculating the cancelation was…
CAMARO PLEASE
Mr Lutz,
Fact is that FWD is not the in anymore. All it was good for before was better traction in wet conditions from having the weight over the drive wheels. Well, if your designers haven’t heard yet, modern electronics and tire advances have made the traction of RWD cars just as good as FWD. The critics are now commenting that FWD and 300 HP is a problem and your new Monte Carlo and Impalla will be torque steer monsters. FWD and performance don’t go good together, they never have.
RWD= Better Performance
Performance= More Excitement, Excitement= More sales
The math is easy. People these days want to be able to do a burn-out every once in a while. We are all not 70-somethings who want some lame Buick.
GM needs more exciting products. An example, we were tempted years back wih an awesome RWD Nomad concept, but we were given a Malibu MAXX (boring)! What were you guys thinking. Although the cars are very different in architecture, put another 2 doors on the Nomad, and it would be killer and way more desireable than a stretched FWD mommy mobile. The design is way more exciting too!
I’m sad to heard that you stopped research on the Zeta platform to focus on your trucks. I know that they are the only thing that is selling for GM right now, but SUVs are dying from safety concerns and high gas prices. It was a fad, that you did very well at, but it is time to move on. The RWD sport sedan is the new thing, and once again GM will be the last company to join in. I can’t wait till 2010 however, to see what you guys will come out with even though it will be too late to be competitive!
P.S. Bring on the new Camaro! Just don’t make it FWD…PLEASE! That will generate some excitement.
I agree with those who are calling for a new Camaro/Firebird, in the mold of the new Mustang. There are those who say coupes are dead. To the naysayers, I say, watch Ford’s sales figures for the ‘05 Mustang. You’ll be silenced.
GM needs to start offering products that people WANT to drive, not have to drive. You’re not going to get out of your slump by introducing products that would have been considered fresh, or groundbreaking, five years ago.
You’ve done a good job with resurrecting Cadillac. Now it needs to be expanded to other divisions. And please, no more products like Aztek/SSR/Ion. These are not groundbreaking, just ugly.
Hi Bob,
There are a lot of great ideas listed above in this blog. Please take note. Here’s a couple of my thoughts:
I have never more seriously considered the Magnum, 300C and Mustang as I did yesterday with news of the Zeta.
I can understand the marketing necessity of tagging “performance” to the Pontiac Torrid. But for most people -especially enthusiasts- “Performance” vehicles without a growling powerful V8 is like trying to sell a Harley with an inline 4 in place of its V-Twin.
Why is it that the only people left that understand American performance are making Holdens in Australia?
Simple Solution:
As several mentioned, just save everyone the trouble and require all Holdens to be designed as they could easily be sold in the US. Given the recent Torana TT36 concept (assuming an LS2 fits), it seems the performance enthusiasts could be happy without the Zeta and minimum investment by GM:
1. Start with the Holden TT36 (extended Kappa platform?)
2. Slap on a Chevy Badge, Left-side steering wheel and the LS2
3. Market it without the teenage theatrics of tire-smoking; instead look to how BMW and Holden market their cars.
4. At a BARE MINIMUM, can we at least order Holdens for import to the US? The new styling of the Torana TT36 should please customers much more then the outdated jellybean of the current GTO/Monaro.
5. Start marketing the LS2 like Chrysler is marketing the Hemi. (Good job on the Trailblazer, but I still think people won’t be able to get past the outdated plastic interior – especially when you can get the clean interior and 7-seats of the Hemi-powered Durango).
Anyway, thanks for all your efforts. Without you at the helm, I would have given up and bought Hemi-power long ago.
Best Regards!
Mr. Lutz,
Hire me in a year or 2 and I’ll design you a Camaro to be proud of.
If you don’t bring back the Camaro, I’m going to have to go through the hassle of buying a used Camaro, putting an LS6 in it, upgrading the supporting parts, and adding a navigation system to the car. My ‘95 Z28 just won’t last forever and I don’t want want to modify it. I want a new Camaro!!!
This morning, I was looking at pictures of the 2003 Chevrolet SS concept car.
It is a fabulous machine. I really hope that a similar vehicle is still in the works at GM, even after the changes to the zeta platform future. This is the vehicle for the car fanatic with a familly.
I am so sick of all these long nosed cars that GM is still proudly presenting and advertizing. If a short front overhang means RWD, then it is the way to go. If other manufacturers are able to profit from this type of architecture then GM must be able to.
Sorry Bob,
You’ve lost a customer today. All I want is a V8 powered RWD Full sized car. A Full-sized station wagon is what I want. I’ve owned and drived only GM since I turned 15. Now at 28 I’m done with GM Everyone else makes what I want, why can’t you? FWD s**ks, always has and always will. Ford and Chysler, here I come!
Either way, a healthy company would not be cancelling such an important project. It is sad to see the house of cards crumbling one card at a time. Take the drastic steps you need to get this ship in order or the market will do it for you. I want GM to succeed.
Mr Lutz:
First and foremost I am a REAR drive performance car lover. I have a ‘96 Impala SS and have on order a 2005 GTO with the 6 speed.
I would like to see the new Impala SS and the Monte Carlo come from the cars that are in Australia now, the Caprice LTZ and Caprice SS and the Lumina SS with the choice of the LS 2 with either a 5 or 6 speed auto os a 6 speed manual transmission, all rear drive of course.
I do not think the Monte Carlo SS and the Impala SS should have been made on the (wrong wheel)front drive chassis.
Thank You for the return of the GTO!! Will there be an LS 7 powered model? The Judge maybe?
Thanks again
Edward Lipman
I’ve only ever owned V8-powered, RWD Chevys: ‘85 Caprice, ‘97 Z28, and now an ‘05 Silverado crew cab. My wife and I are looking to start a family, and we’ll be needing a family vehicle soon. No SUVs, no minivans. We wanted a RWD, V8 CAR. Seeing as my company gets the GMS discount, we were hoping there would be something to choose from in the GM camp by ‘06 or ‘07. Unfortunately, we’re left to turn elsewhere for a comparable vehicle. Why can’t GM get engaged competitively in the V8 powered car segment again?
ok MR lutz…
ill try and help you understand my thinking… i am 18 years old and have been raised on camaros. i have now owned 4 camaro, (1967 plainjane camaro, 1992 RS camaro, 1995 Z28 camaro, and am now into my 2001 Z28 camaro).
i am now in the market for a new muscle car but am starting to lean towards a mustang.. i have been a die hard bowtie guy since i got my first car but i will admit i stopped at the ford dealership yesterday and told them to give me a deal on a trade in for the Z…salesman kinda chuckled and said “you too eh??” i replied “yeah, i give up”…
this makes me so sad to think that i will now have to become trendy like everyone else.. i can not afford a corvette but a new camaro would sure hit the spot.
i urge you to definately figure this out.. why would you devote more money into trucks when your just going to lose a ton of business to the new titans and other import V-8 trucks. i think you are making a HUGE mistake as to lots of other loyal camaro/GM fans.
Mr lutz I AM YOUR FUTURE!!! i am the market you need to capture and you are not doing it. i have a lifetime of car buying ahead of me and if you lose the business of my generation i promise GM’s demise will quickly follow…
May I say that this is some of the richest customer feedback I’ve ever seen on the Internet.
Congratulations, Mr. Lutz. You’ve really gotten this channel humming. I’m not sure what you’re going to do with all of it, but if it genuinely was feedback you wanted, then you’re succeeded in spades.
Bob, I live in Canada. The ‘07 GTO was my only hope of an affordable rwd performance car from GM. This news is devastating. I’m 47 and I’ve never owned anything but GM products. Currently I have an ‘03 GMC Sierra. It’s my opinion that this news has just helped Ford sell a lot more Mustangs. I want to remain loyal to GM but I don’t see how I’m going to do it.
I would love to buy a GM car, but can’t afford the CTS, STS, or Corvette and I don’t really want to buy an SUV no matter how “cool” they are. Don’t you guys look at the gas prices?
The G6, Colbalt SS, and LaCrosse are good cars and better than there replacments but they still don’t have that “gotta have it” appeal. I thought you would change the bland designs that were continually coming out of GM. As you can see, people will buy hot looking American cars (300C and Mustang).
Why can’t GM’s design team make a production car that looks as good as its prototype? The Soltice is a start but its a 2 seater and not functional for people with a family. GM needs to make hot cars that don’t fall apart and cost under $30K.
Good luck and I hope you get it, b/c I won’t wait much longer.
Then give us something TANGIBLE to see GM!!!!!! We’re tired of all the talk about it and NOTHING in concrete to look at!!! I just dont believe it anymore. I’m 43 and have had GM musclecars most of my life. Either Camaros or Firebird. I’ve completely lost faith in GM’s committment to folks like me who have made them what they are/were.
Bob,
I was ecstatic when I heard you were going to GM, and I was rewarded with Ausie built GTO!
Not a bad car, just in dire need of a US redesign.
I have been holding of on a new car purchase until you had something I want, I was promised RWD/AWD V8 powered Chevy’s.
So I was waiting for the V8 RWD/AWD Impala SS or a new Camaro, and thought it would be soon, now this!
I own or have owned;
1968 Pontiac Catalina V8 RWD
1978 Chevrolet Camaro Type LT/Z-28 V8 RWD
1978 Chevrolet Camaro Type LT/RS V8 RWD
1982 Chevrolet Cavalier I4 FWD
1984 Chevrolet Silverado V8 RWD
1987 Chvrolet Camaro Z-28 V8 RWD
1997 GMC Sonoma I4 RWD
1992 Chevrolet K5 Blazer V8 RWD/4WD
1996 Chevrolet Caprice Classic SEO 9C1 (police Car) V8 RWD
Out of the current cars The Cobalt SS/Saturun ion Red Line along with Cadillac CTS/CTS-V and STS are the only cars worth looking at.
If GM made cars people wanted, people wouldnt be buying trucks and SUV’s and profits will go up.
GM has made this short sighted mistake time and again, all it does is alienate faithful buyers, sending them to other brands.
Good example, how long did it take GM to realize that a majority of the industry was swinging from FWD to RWD performance capable cars while GM continued to trudge along on its FWD no performance path?
Look at the cars which are selling well from other manfacturers:
Chrysler 300
Dodge Magnum
Ford Mustang
Toyota Avalon (V6)
Lexus IS300
Nissan 350Z
What do these cars have that GM can’t do?
I can talk till my mouth falls off, but someone at GM really needs to start listening.
Karl J.
The announcement that GM is dropping the Zeta cars was unexpected, but should any of us really think that this wasn’t a strategic & well thought out decision by the GM brass. As it has alreadly been stated, GM already has the proven Sigma platform as well as the Kappa to create desireable front engine rear wheel drive vehicles. This is surely not the end of RWD for GM cars & a newer, better platform may be just around the horizon. I say “Kudos” for having what it takes to make a decision that may stir up a hornets nest, but still be in the best interest of GM. Thanks for all of your hard work, & keep blogging.
If you listen carefully, you can hear the sobs of millions of GM enthusiasts crying out in pain after hearing about the death of Zeta.
I’m going to go crawl up into the fetal position, and join them now.
This is an incredibly sad day for all GM enthusiasts and for GM too.
Mr. Lutz,
Although I understand GM’s present position, I am still thoroughly disappointed that Zeta has been cancelled in favor of trucks.
Fuel prices are volatile, and if they kiss and hold near $3 per gallon you’ll find the bottom will fall out of the truck market, and fast.
Putting all of GM’s eggs in the truck basket (again) and ignoring your car lines is a huge gamble, and potentialy suicide. I hope for GM’s sake the next generation of trucks is unquestionably the best-in-class in every way with no real weaknesses.
The decision to kill Zeta is a huge win for Chrysler. Chrysler has proved that high quality and distinctly American cars are in demand in this country, and that there is room to compete with them.
The Japanese have a lock on vanilla FWD sedans. It’s what they do best, and it’s pointless competing with them at it. GM cannot win against them and regain market share (as well as enthusiast passion) by continuing to have an all FWD car line. You’ve demonstrated for whatever reason that you cannot beat the Accord and Camry at their own games.
After visiting Australia last year, it’s obvious to me Holden is where the real, mainstream, every-day American enthusiast cars in the company lie, and very sadly it’s not in North America.
The Ute and Crewman should be our Chevrolet El Camino. The Adventra should be our Pontiac Torrent instead of a rebadged Equinox. The Caprice and Statesman should be our Chevrolet Caprice and Buick Roadmaster.
Holden is an extremely talented bunch, and their line of RWD cars should be GM’s line here. Zeta promised us that the next Commodore SS could be our Impala SS, and do justice to that nameplate once again. Our hope for attainable and practical performance from GM has been dashed.
Not utilizing this talent and brand new platform NOW is a massive missed opportunity and I believe it will come back to haunt the company in the long run.
Until GM gets serious about differentiating its cars from the Japanese with mainstream, RWD models that remind us all why American cars were loved in their heyday, you can look forward to watching Chrysler enjoy the sales and the buzz of their RWDs, and the Japanese eating more of your marketshare.
Mr. Lutz- as a long time GM stock holder I was excited to see you break rank and join GM but to date I have not seen your mark on GM as in your past endevors. You’re in your twilight years as far as your career and I wonder if the bean counters and focus group marketers have more fight in them then you.
Stop make vehicles and start making emotional embodiements of AMERICAN wants and desires – hot works of art that look in motion standing still that the average worker can afford. My ‘96 Impala SS is just that, V-8, crazy balls-to-the-walls performance, affordable, and fits the kids and golf clubs all the while getting 21-25mpg if driven sensibly. UNLEASH those 20 year olds in the design studios, dismantle the focus groups, and design a car for the American masses -affordable, crazy ass powerful if you plant your right foot, and fuel fruegal if not tromped on. Make it hold an american faimly of 5 and their luggage- Price it around $25K w/RWD for low cost and durablity and with AWD as an option – THEY WILL SELL
The products being presented have shown that “world class” comes out of Detroit. The new Buick Lucerne and Pontiac Solstice are right on target.
The replacement of the Chevrolet Monte Carlo and Impala SS, with the equivalent to the Holden/Pontiac GTO in performance, would be ideal.
Why not a Cobalt 4 door hatchback? Did we miss what that rest of the world desires? Or is that an Opel?
Mazda 3/Kia Spectra 5/Mercedes-Benz B-Class/Toyota Matrix-Pontiac Vibe
I find it hard to believe that the market for mid-size, V8 powered, RWD/AWD sport coupes is not profitable. A LOT of guys in their 40s want an aggressive looking powerful sports coupe to counter the boring workday. Cheap looking optional plastic “sport” moldings are for teenage posers. Target the untapped mid-life crisis market with performance cars designed for middle class income adults and watch your stock price gap up daily.
Mr. Lutz,
I’m 21 years old, and I’ll be purchasing a new vehicle to replace my ‘96 Jimmy in a year or so. I was really hoping a slew of rwd GMs would be available for me to pick from. I might have to go with a Mustang instead. I would never consider a new car that didn’t have at least a 5-speed trans, and please make DoD engines available in all of your new cars and trucks, gas is getting expensive.
Sometimes the best defense is a good offense. After being kicked around by just about everybody this year, here are a few suggestions for GM to go on the offensive:
1. Offer best warranty, 6 or 7 years, 100/120K powertrain. That will send the Koreans in a tailspin and plant the Mitsubishi and Isuzu brands sooner rather than later. What do think has given Hyundai and Kia all their momentum the past 4 years. If your not sure, start out with a division such as Saturn, Buick or Pontiac. Trust me the costs incurred will help to overcome the negative quality reputation that lingers from the ’80s.
2. Let Saturn buyers use GM Card earnings all the time, not just on special occaisions. I love Saturn service and have a GM card. They were made for each other. Aura and Sky are spot on perfect – can’t wait.
3. Diferentiate Buick and Cadillac from the many, many other luxury & near luxury makes. Offer free routine service and get the customer appreciation levels up.
4. Marketing: I won’t say the Oprah – G6 thing was a flop, I think it has more to do with naming. “G6″? and the commercial tag line: “the first ever G6″? If you named it turkey dung, then it would be the first ever turkey dung. That’s wasted money and an ineffectual tag line.
5. Don’t freak out; the next year will suck but if you put out a good truck line and benchmark off of the fabulous F-150, you will be in good shape. In the mean time, start hyping the envirofriendly advantages of the hybrid Silverado, such as milage, power points, no need for 2-stroke gas engine chains saws, or a portable generator, etc. Maybe even consider putting that I-5 in the full size trucks; gas isn’t going to be value priced the next few years.
6. Differentiate the DNA between the brands. Case in point: Trailblazer, Envoy, Rainier, 9-7, Ascender, Bravada. I’m not saying don’t build that many off the same platform but make them all unique. Look what Ford is doing with the Zephyr, Fusion and Milan; they’re all quite distinct.
7. Push the envelope and start leading, not following.
To all my fellow bloggers: You have to remember that the average buyer doesn’t know (or care) about FWD vs RWD. They want a car that looks good and runs well at a competitive price.
That said, GM is relying too much on huge SUVs and trucks, all while gas prices go up and up.
Bob, remember at DCX when the PT Cruiser, Durango and Viper went from concept to showroom in months? Light a fire at GM and get those guys to move their butts!
Bob,
I wonder if this decision has something to do with the forecasts that hybrids will form an ever increasing share of GM’s product range. Under the triple pressures of Peak Oil, Global Warming and Energy Security, almost all road vehicles, including fuel cell vehicles, will eventually be hybrids in the sense that they will have regenerative braking systems.
However, regenerative braking is distinctly limited if it only works on the rear wheels, unless weight is biased to the rear. So most early hybrid platforms are likely to be FWD or AWD. The real shocker is that most hybrid cars may eventually be rear-engined. I am sure you already understand why, but your readers might like to check out the article ‘Energy Efficient Motor Sport’, available online at http://www.auto-technology.com, for some of the reasons.
So no GTO but what about Monaro? The VE Commodore is set for launch in ‘06 so will Australia still have the option of building Monaro locally? Also the Zeta architecture I’m assuming it was engineered for AWD as Holden have a number of AWD vehicles running off the current Commodore platform.
See Adventure, Cross 8, Coupe 4 etc.
Mr. Lutz comments could be looked at several ways.
The obvious interpretation is that GM is saying their production process isn’t as cost effective as the competition. They therefore can’t get Zeta to market at a competitive price/quality/content level.
But I was of the impression that GM was doing pretty well in that regard, and was far ahead of either Ford or Chrysler. At least they were supposed to be just a few years ago.
The alternate way of looking at this is that Mr. Lutz is implying that Ford and Chrysler have sacrificed something in order to come to market at the price points they have, and GM is unwilling to do that with their products. So Zeta is being shelved here to find a better way of getting the job done that entails fewer tradeoffs. This seems to be implied in Marc Becker’s statement.
What a great idea to bring in all of Australia’s cool products! Too bad it’s against UAW rules…. Good idea, but won’t work. How sad.
Somewhat off the subject…but PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! stop abusing the “SS” moniker. “Malibu Maxx SS!” Not only will these cars reap poor ROI’s, it is destroying the sentimental history of the nameplate as well. When you reference the historic “SS” models, you’ll see a no-nosense performance muscle-machine.
Today, with the way that GM is murdering that image, you see a Malibu Maxx with a 20% larger econo-box motor and some ground effects. It’s like the story of the “boy who cried wolf.” If you keep throwing around the “SS” name every year with non-SUPER SPORT models, no one will care any more.
I ask this of you, Mr. Lutz: Walk outside, look at a Malibu Maxx, and say the words “Super Sport” to yourself. I think you may find my point – the same point that I share with many other “old-school” GM enthusiasts.
Mr Lutz,
My family has Chevrolet in its blood. My grandfather only bought Chevy trucks to work on our farm, because he knew they were the best. He bought his first brand new Chevy in 1984, it was a brown Silverado Custom. My father has been hooked on Corvettes, and spent more than his year’s entire income on his first in 1969. My mother still gives him h**l to this day for it. I’ve owned several Camaros, currently a ‘68 and ‘01. The only non-GM car ever bought by any family member was my brother’s ‘98 F150, simply because it was a deal too good to pass up.
When Ford introduced what is now known as the Probe, it was actually to be the new Mustang. Mustang fans were appalled they were being given a FWD 4 cylinder car, and rightfully so. FoMoCo listened to thier cries and thus the Probe became the Probe, and the Mustang design team went back to the drawing board.
Why aren’t you listening to us? Give me a RWD car. Give me a car with a powerful V8 with room for modification. Give me something with the looks to match the bite. Give me something that’s affordable, but not cheaply built. But most importantly, give me something with SOUL.
So Bob…
You say that rwd performance is not dead at GM. You say you’re going to just set it aside. So, when are you going to go rwd, after the trend moves somewhere new? I just finished looking at NYIAS cars: the GT500 Mustang, the Charger SRT-8, and the Grand Cherokee SRT-8. Those are NICE vehicles. While you are saying that rwd may be in the future for GM, the other manufacturers are hitting this segment HARD, and hitting homeruns everywhere. GM is nowhere to be seen. Putting a V8 in the Monte/Impala doesn’t make it a performance car if it’s still fwd.
I still have the Wall Street Journal article from May, 1995 announcing the end of GM RWD cars in 1996. I can recall how painful it was to read it that day.
And now, sadly, 10 years later, nothing has changed. I am a loyal GM rwd owner and have two ‘96 Caprices, a 96 Impala SS and two ‘67 Impalas. My newest cars are 8 years old now, so I went looking at the new car auto expo last weekend in Raleigh, NC. The only car to excite me from GM was the concept only car, a 2002 Chevy Bel Air convertible.
I was bored with all the new GM offerings, they just lack that “WOW” factor. I even yawned at the latest Corvette (out of my price range anyway). Next to GM was the display for the new Ford Mustang, and I could not even get near the car, for such a large crowd was around the Mustang! I finally got up close to it and went “WOW”!
It is a Ford, and I do not like Fords, but my gosh…what a beautiful car, inside and out!
Why can’t GM create the kind of car that evokes the same feelings I had for the new Mustang? I hate to say it but I believe the reason GM makes such dull cars is because GM just does not employ true car aficiondos as they did back back in its heyday. Now they have just a bunch of college degree people who decided to go to work at GM who have no real automotive enthusiasm. GM’s offerings reflect the (lack of) creativity and interest of the employees who design and manufacture their cars.
Back in the old days, (before my time!) GM used to be so proud and excited of their offerings they put on traveling roadshows called Motoramas. I truly cannot imagine going to a Motorama show today to see their boring 2005 line-up. Oh well, time to keep the old ‘96 rwd’s going a little longer. The boring looking restyled 2006 Impala looks like a carbon copy of the Camry. Dull, dull.
Maybe someday, GM will become exciting again…sigh.
Bob,
Just a suggestion regarding the brands at GM. Many in recent weeks have said that GM has too many brands for its current market share. In a sense, this is true, but I think GM could streamline their brand structure without actually cutting anything ala Oldsmobile.
Specifically, why doesn’t GM “trim” Buick and Pontiac so that they offer cars that are more consistent with the brand indentity and more in touch with the market realities.
For instance, do Buick and Pontiac need LaCrosse CX the Grand Prix GT1? These are identical cars, which are both in fact indentical to Chevrolet’s Impala. Why not start ALL Pontiacs at a GT trim level and Buicks at a CXL trim level? Thus, even the base Grand Prix would offer significant handling improvements over the Impala while the base Lacrosse would be noticably more luxurious (perhaps leather should be standard). This could apply to the entire lineups for each brand.
The SV6 should be a “GT,” with stiffer springs and higher gearing than the Uplander. The Terezza could offer exclusive features of its own, like Quite Tuning and an independent rear (you already do this – see it’s not that hard!). As a result, the Pontiac and Buick minivans would appeal to considerably different customers from both eachother and from the value-oriented Chevy customer.
Thus, GM could reduce the redundancy in its lineup without the major sacrificing a well established brand.
It is way past time to outlaw the phrase “We can’t build it because…” at GM. Just do it already!
Here’s an idea, instead of thinking about dumping Pontiac, why not strongarm the UAW into allowing the entire RWD Holden range to come here as Pontiacs? Give it a “sunset clause” if you need to. But at least give it a try. I know, you know how good these cars really are, you spent some “quality time” in a Monaro.
Don’t you think it’s time to be bold? Shake things up and roll a few dice, you just might win. One negative press release after another isn’t helping, take a stand, make a wager. Wow us once in a while. Tell us you’re going to build a V8-powered Kappa or a Chevy Nomad to replace the SSR when it goes. Give us an AWD V8 powered Pontiac Sport wagon that eats the Magnum for lunch.
Or a Chevelle sport sedan that out performs an M5 at a 30% discount from the M5’s price.
Throw us a bone – please.
Ugh, so now we can have new trucks and SUVs a year quicker (but still a couple years behind the F-150). Unless I hear some interesting details soon, I am officially giving up on GM’s chances of ever building interesting mainstream cars ever again.
Here’s some advice drop the Chevy SSR it looks like crap and the aveo. The only car im looking forward to coming is the 2006 Monte Carlo but the back end looks to long. If your gona make a coupe make the pontiac grand prix coupes and add hood scoops. If use do bring back the camaro bring it back to its glory in the early 90 years.
You know what I change my mind don’t bring it back because at this stage it seems like use can only screw things up. I wish i was 19 around 1991.
Camaro Camaro Camaro Camaro. NOW. Not later, not in 2011. NOW. THIS YEAR, NEXT YEAR, VERY SOON. Give us some hope. WHY in GOD’s name is this SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND. What exactly is the massive complexity? What is the malfunction in all of your minds that this Camaro thing is being delayed so much. I mean, come on just GIVE IT TO ME I want it now. I KNOW you’re going to do it, just TELL us so we can be happy. TELL us the Camaro is coming back, and TELL us when. I don’t even need to see it, nor do I need details. Just SAY IT and everybody will be happy.
NO 07 CAMARO BYE GM!
Mr. Lutz. I am concerned about your comment on dropping the Pontiac line. I for one would no longer purchase GM products. Even though I have sold GM products for over 28 years, I do not care for Chevys nor Buicks. Dumping Olds was a mistake. It should have been Buick. Buicks are for old people. Around here when there is a slow traffic problem, it is a Buick and yes an oldster is driving.
I understand GM is having some problems. Maybe the “man at the top” should take a pay cut. It would “look good” to Wall Street, the unions and get some good press for a change. Both my wife and I have over the past several years had to make adjustments because of job changes and a decrease in our income. Please think this out. Pontiac has a great history and is a great division. My .02 worth.
Steve
End of Zeta = End of Performance? No…but it does signal yet another disappointment for loyal Chevey-ists. I have a ‘73 Camaro and just sold my 1951 GMC 1/2 ton. I have always been a Chevy fan. But I am considering looking elsewhere. (Look at that nice Mustang, GT50, Shelby)
Corvette:
I yawn at the ‘new’ corvette. It looks a lot like the old ones. All the corvette fans were extremely disappointed when it came out. All the secrecy…for that! The corvette websites were pushing designs to GM saying they will buy it if you make it. Many have not bought the new corvette. Too much money for too little. Take a look at the companies building brand new retro-styled corvettes. Dropped the ball.
Camaro:
Camaro fans are pushing designs to GM. I mean they are doing free design work and saying they will buy it if you make it. There are even companies trying to build ‘67-’69 bodies. If you look at the pro-touring movement, you will see that ‘67-’69 Camaros are being snatched up and turned into daily drivers…because GM is not building new ones.
Your comment on retro styling… I certainly hope you are not looking at the overgrown PT Cruiser…the HHR to be the next craze. Too little… too late.
For my family hauler…I used to have a Suburban. I now have Ford full-sized van. I will probable replace it with a VERY fuel efficient Dodge Sprinter. Why? Because GM offers me nothing in this category.
I am very disappointed… do I think you will listen? No… but I thought I would rant anyways.
If you don’t give us the Camaro by 2008, I must, as a loyal Chevy buyer, and GM stockholder, ask you to resign.
I thought you might be overwhelmed by the amount of people asking for the Camaro in these blogs. Good. You should consider it a wake up call. We dont want a V8 Monte Carlo, or a supercharged Cobalt, or more trucks, we want CAMARO.
News of the cancellation of the zeta platform is disappointing. However, I hope that a GTO with something on the order of an LS7 engine would be considered. The LS2 engine in the 2005 GTO was enough to move me to buy one (no regrets, love the car!). I think with an LS7 (or equivalent), these cars would fly out of the dealerships if priced in the mid-thirties. My 2c worth.
Mr. Lutz,
I know you’ve hinted that the end of Zeta doesn’t mean the end of RWD cars at GM. How about this: take a page from Caddy’s playbook. Seperate Buick and Pontiac from Chevy FWD sedans and use a single RWD platform for a midsize and large sedan each for Buick and Pontiac. Make the Pontiacs have excellent handling, and make the Buicks comfortable cruisers. Then add appropriate crossover derivatives to fill out the lineup. You’ll get acceptable economies of scale out of that one platform, plus you’ll give customers an alternative to the slew of FWD offerings which have grown pretty tired.
Mr. Lutz,
Reading this blog shows you both sides of opinion on the Zeta platform. To me, along with the gas prices, your vehicle prices, in each and every single segment are very expensive. You have dealt with the Hybrid market, great for the tree hugging residents of California, but for the average American Joe, working hard for their money, to be able to buy a car that not only says “REAR WHEEL DRIVE, NOSTALGIA and MUSCLE” should also say AMERICAN. You excited us with the SSR, but you made it too expensive for the American Joe. Then comes the news about the GTO, first of all, it’s Australian, boring, plain, cheap looking and you have stained the legendary GTO name with a hyped up Grand Prix look alike. The GTO that De Lorean worked up deserved a retro look.
You played with my emotions when you brought out the Bel Aire concept. You killed it, it would’ve hammered the Ford T-Bird. You got rid of Oldsmobile, would you have brought back the Olds 442 in a retro format, kept the Camaro w/ some redesigna nd the Firebird. It would give some hope to us, American Joes.
I read a blog about comparing GM to Harley-Davidson. The difference is that Harley learned from its mistakes, and it continues to listen, pay attention and please their customers. Forget the Camaro, at this rate, A Harely Fat Boy sounds much exciting, less expensive and better on gas. by the time I retire, you’ll have a great RWD Car like you used to build (AMERICAN MUSCLE), only I will not be able to afford it. Social Security will be gone, like your great cars, and the gas prices should be about $10.99 a gallon. Not all of us can afford the Vettes, the GTOs or Hummers. So, with that in mind, maybe you should consider the motorcycle market as well, scooters, cruisers, etc. With your technology, it can be done. And it would be a great market, as bikes are gas savers.
Seriously, please bring back a Camaro, that looks, performs, sounds and feels like a Camaro. But do it in this decade, like NOW!!!!!
RWD, V8, sporty, beefy, tough.
Want one? They’re only about $7k… thats $15k with an emissions legal 450HP engine.
Want one?
think USED. Skip the dealer.. seek out your local speed shop for help.
Wanna wax and pay high insurance rates? go for the $40k dealer version. you’ll look good peeking at it under the car-cover as you see if the alarm is still working…
YOUR MARKET SHARE LOSS IS THE ISSUE. For every sale you loose it is an opportunity for another automaker to make money on the sale you forfeit.
When you introduced the Cavalier years ago it also spawned the Sunfire and Alero. Now that you introduced the Cobalt and killed the other two you have taken that volume producing vehicle out of thousands of dealerships. I don’t care how good the Cobalt is it will never make up all those sales.
Now with the market share loss you and Wall Street believe you can’t support all your brands. You can’t get rid of Pontiac, you will have too many luxury brands, and I don’t want my Solstice to be a love child.
Fortunately, market share is an easy fix. It is about low cost volume cars like Aveo. And you got cars like that sprinkled throughout the world. Bring the Matiz, and other Daewoo cars here and a Sunfire Coupe SS won’t hurt.
AND BY THE WAY, THE BUICK VELITE IS TO BUICK WHAT THE CHRYSLER 300 IS TO CHRYSLER.
YOU GOT 20 AUTOMAKERS MAKING PLAIN VANILLA, GM MAKES THE DIFFERENCE. MAY GOD SAVE THE NEAPOLITAN.
This is very confusing. Holden have already spent 5 years designing the Zeta platform. The money has already been spent.
All NAO has to do is change some metal to suit their styling. The sigma and epsilion plateforms are more expensive then the zeta platform.
That is why Holden designed the Zeta plateform, so that it could be used on large volume cheap vehicals but still have the engineering and driveability of a BMW.
And you thought that the GTO was great to drive. The Zeta platform has a wide stance and a proper multilink independant rear suspension.
O well it just means more exports for Holden.
Mr. Lutz:
I admire your style of leadership. If American enterprise wants to stay in the global game it needs more executives like you. Lutz=Gutz.
Good luck keeping the the MBAs, lawyers, and accountants at bay while the real talent (GM engineers/workers) gets back to work building great Yankee cars again!
Please bring back RWD to the car segment. There are those of us chomping at the bit to get ahold of a GM car like this. Perhaps a rwd version of the redesigned Impala. Too costly? Why not a nice big sedan like the Holden Caprice here? I still get people who want to buy my ‘96 Impala and Caprice at least 2 times a month. I would never sell of course but they were wonderful vehicles. Could we do something like that again? Have a production and then an SS version?
Clarence.
I am very disappointed to learn of GM’s decision to cancel the ZETA rear drive program. What this says to me is that GM is NOT commited to rear drive but will continue to “refine” existing front drive platforms for future cars. While I don’t doubt the financial benefit of this strategy short term, long term what does this mean for Cadillac? You are going to kill all of the positive momentum you have built up for the brand as the current sigma platform falls behind the competition. I guess I won’t be buying the next generation rear drive BLS.
It’s dissappointing to see rwd postponed, but I can handle that. But I am tired of the suv’s, how many can you guys put out there, too many are looking alike except for a name plate and I thought the market was declining for suv’s. If you guy’s spent half the time on a good rwd program that you spend on the trendy items you wouldn’t be in this mess. As John Delorean said before his death, Gm needs more engineers running the show and less accountants. Oh, and stop plastering SS on anything with wheels, whats next an SS Aveo. Don’t follow other carmakers footsteps on retro designs, put some effort into it and listen to the public, before we end up with another GTO.
Your problem is not lack of one platform or another. It is that your cars are boring, drab, underpowered, and ugly. I have been on a waiting list for 3 months for a Mustang. You do not have anything that I would wait for. That is for less than $35000. You have no sporty sedans Or coupes for that matter. I am talking about cars to compete with the V-6 Altima and Accord.
I read that you may cancel either Pontiac or Buick. I would chop Buick if it was my decision. I think the problems are deeper than just Buick. Here is my view on what needs to be done. Take it or leave it, but it is not pretty and may p**s many people off.
Here is my Vision of the Future GM in North America:
Three Brands
1) Chevrolet
2) Cadillac
3) Hummer
Chevrolet products:
GMDAT
Sky (change the name)
Cobalt
HHR
Malibu (insert Aura as is)
Impala (insert 3.6L)
Replace Monte Carlo with RWD product based on GTO and change the name (3.6L and share base power trains with Corvette)
Equinox (insert 3.6L)
All New Minivan w/3.6L
Corvette (share power trains w/Cadillac)
Colorado (insert 4.2L)
Silverado
Tahoe
Suburban
Cadillac products:
No major changes needed, keep going in the current direction with a 5 year product cycle. Add the LS7 power train to the STS-V.
Hummer products:
It’s still new and is authentic. Keep it that way. Lower production volume to keep demand high = higher margins. Insert the 4.2L into the H3. The only smaller product than the H3 would be an open top TJ-type rock crawler.
Chevrolet will stand for best non-luxury vehicles. Cadillac will stand for best luxury vehicles. Hummer will stand for best off road vehicles. Focus on these product lines and make them the best in the industry. Every detail should be looked at with the thought of how can it be better each time you redesign. Keep the names the same and product consistent. Make them mean something again. Each product needs to be the best in each class. Every redesign is the next opportunity to become the best.
Eliminate the following:
Pontiac, Buick, GMC, Saturn, and SAAB. This will p**s off many dealers. Either they go under or you do. Keep the best and smartest dealers that will work with you and buy into your new direction. Eliminate the current divisional conflicts for what a brand stands for and how power trains are distributed.
I hate to see many people lose their jobs at GM. It does not matter if they are white or blue collar, it s**ks. The changes you need to make will force you to eliminate jobs and create more negative press. It is a bitter pill that will have to happen once. It is like pulling off a band-aid when you are a kid. You know you have to do it, so do it once and do it fast. Keep the BEST people. It is tough to eliminate friends and people you have worked with for years. The company needs to survive, it is nothing personal it is business. Please become the best again.
Here is a plan that GM should follow closely. They should build the SS 4 door concept and replace the Impala with it. They should then shorten it up a little, give it more power and call it Camaro! It would be most cost effective that way. The Impalas will be bought by people with families and the Camaro will be bought by singles and fans.
They could incorporate the Monte Carlo in as a 2 door Impala (like it is now, making it the same size as the SS, but not as powerful). They could also give the Monte a convertible hardtop. Leave the Camaro convertible as a soft top, the Impala SS as a sexy, powerful 4 door and the Monte Carlo as a sexy, powerful large coupe with a retractable hardtop (like the new G6 at Pontiac). Then price them cordially. Camaro Starting at $17,000 to $27,000, Monte starting at $23,000 to $30,000 and the Impala SS starting at $24,000 to $34,000. That way they have only one platform to work with in two different lengths. The engines could be interchangeable (with the Camaro with the most powerful engines).
Pontiac can keep the Firebird dead and put a little more style into the GTO.
BOB, Are you listening? I would be honored to fly out and help you get these plans rolling. The bean counters are the ones that I should be speaking with, Mr. Lutz is probably on my side!
Dear Mr. Lutz,
I am a 43 year old Professional Male who is a diehard GM fan.
I am in the “sweet spot” of many of your demographics.
My wife is a Toyota fan. She recently got me to go to a dealership and see what all of the commotion was about, as I am in the market for a new car.
I saw what was happening. Quality interiors, motors that purr, seamless quality.
Our family did not buy foreign cars when I grew up.
We had Cadillacs. I knew what quality was supposed to be.
I was impressed in looking at the Toyotas, and I am a GM fan.
Now, many of the Baby Boomers have jumped ship, and their kids have seen the reliabilty and qulaity, and would never consider an American car.
Mr. Lutz, I am the part of the glue that is holding the GM customer base together…and I am asking myself if I am crazy for not jumping ship.
But, I will persevere…and THAT is how I am looking at it…my “values” versus what good quality is.
If I am doing it, many others must be as well.
I think that today’s planners at GM forget that Cadillacs had “swagger”, and were the cars of your dreams—now Mercedes Benzes, Beamers and Lexi are…sad…
In the 1960s, most Pontiacs were drop-dead gorgeous. And now? UGH!
I was a Pontiac nut–now–there is not one Pontiac that I’d even consider LOOKING AT!
Even I can’t believe it!
Buicks were cars that you aspired to own. Now?
Fuhgeddaboutit!
No, the LaCrosse or Lucerne are NOT cars that I aspire to own…and I’m a 43 year old professional!
People were passionate about their Chevys—Impalas, Camaros, Chevelles–the cars of the 1950s and ’60s.
Now? Well, people are passionate about the same cars…not the new ones.
What do all of these things have in common? PASSION !
Why does Toyata build a quality car? PASSION !
My opinion is that you need to “fire up” yopu staff with PASSION! I think that Anthony Robbins preaches this.
Your managers and designers should look at some of these cars in the historical collection, be REQUIRED to go to GM cars shows, and get PASSIONATE…
We’ll eliminate the obvious, of course… Any 1964-1970 GTO
would be tops of the list.
2.) 1965 or 1966 Bonneville Convertible w/ Coke-Bottle styling.
3.) 1965 Buick Riviera.
4.) 1969 Impala 2dr Hardtop.
5.) 1969 Chevelle.
6.) 1961 Ventura
7.) 1963-1966 Grand Prix
8.) 1957 Eldorado Brougham
9.) 1965-1969 Cadillac
10.) 1957 Chevrolet
11.) Any 1960’s Corvette.
12.) 1968-1972 Vista Cruiser.
13.) 1973-1977 Cutlass Supreme Coupes (Opera Window, V shaped backlight)
14.) 1969-1970 Grand Prix
Other nice designs… 1981-1987 Pontiac Grand Prix, 1977-1979 Coupe De Ville, Early 1980’s Delta 88, 1970-1971 Buick Skylark.
Very few GM cars “do it for me” these days…the ones that did–the Le Sabre, Park Avenue are soon to die and dead. The La Crosse looks ill-proprotioned. No amount of Marketing money will sway me.
The STS is nice as is the DTS though. Great job!
I am sure that I am not alone in seeing foreign cars the way that I do, and the desire to see GM make a comeback.
Please get the PASSION back before it’s too late.
Thank you for reading my letter. I wish you the best of luck! Go get ‘em!
JIM
Pennsylvania
This anouncement is very upsetting. I was planning on buying a nice RWD Chevy Camaro when it came out, but now it looks like I’ll have to buy a Ford. I’ve always owned GM and wanted to stay with GM. But ya’ll broke your loyalty to your customers when you started putting 4 cylinder fwd cars which the asians build better and faster anyway ahead of American muscle. It’s dissapointing to see the over-priced non functional Chevy SSR collecting dust at showrooms, or the Australian built GTO. But that was ya’lls call back then, and I’m sure ya’ll regret it, because those stupid mistakes cost you customers.
Really, I have to wonder if we’re wasting our time posting these blogs. Does top mgmt really read them? If they do, how can they keep making the same mistakes again and again???
At any rate, I can excuse GM for dropping the Zeta platform; they have much bigger fish to fry right now. As cool as it might have been to have a new Camaro/Firebird, GM’s going to have to depend on its bread & butter sedans to save its bacon…which is why I despair for GM over the long-term. Pontiac introduced the G6, which I thought really wasn’t half bad…but how long will it be before the Buick and Saturn knockoffs come along to further confuse the customer? (I know, I know; it was hard enough just killing off Oldsmobile and buying their dealer body off with money or other GM franchises.) Chevy FINALLY gets around to redoing the Impala, which is about seven years old by now…and the new models look every bit as dull and ordinary as the old one. Hello, rental car fleets.
I just came from the auto show in my area, and because I’ll be entering the market soon I made it a point to give the midsize GM sedans a fair chance. The G6, as I said, was a bit of a surprise; but every other sedan was either too plain, too dull, or too long in the tooth…sometimes all three.
Mr. Waggoner and Mr. Lutz, if you read this (which I frankly don’t think you bother to do), take some advice from a potential customer as follows…
You MUST come up with sedans which are fully competitive with the best the market has to offer, and you MUST do it soon! The trucks and SUVs have already had their day in the sun; as soon as gas approaches $3.00/gallon they’ll be dead in the water. Don’t just aim for the Camry and Accord, aim AHEAD of them since they will both have redesigned their cars by the time you can bring out yours.
When you do bring out a competitive product, don’t skimp so much on the interior. When you spend thousands per car on rebates & incentives, would it kill you to spend an extra $50 per car on snappier interior color combinations and woodtrim that doesn’t look quite so cheesy? The Suzuki Verona is a low-priced midsize sedan, yet its interior LOOKS much more refined & luxurious than it really is.
Finally, don’t introduce a new model and then leave it unchanged for six or seven years, as you’ve done for so long. Toyota & Honda introduce new generations of their respective models every four or five years; I know it’s extremely expensive to replace your lineups that frequently but unfortunately, that’s the cost of doing business in the big leagues. You’ve GOT to start planning the next generation of models the VERY DAY you introduce a new one!!
As for me, if I don’t end up buying that G6, I will be driving home in a new Camry, Altima–or even that Suzuki Verona I was talking about. Don’t get me wrong; I would LIKE to buy American…but I’d be a chump to deliberately settle for an inferior product in order to do so.
Mr Lutz;
I must apologize that I don’t keep up with GM design plans and futures like many of those who have posted before me. I find that what I see at the autoshow and what gets decided even when you have a great design and an immediate following is two different things. Hence I don’t get to excited any more.
Your site was highly recommended by a member in a B body group I belong to.
After reading through the blog I must admit I agree with many of the posts.
I am 48 and have owned many cars over the years. Primary GM, either Buick or Chevy with a lone Ford thrown in many years ago. Currently I own 2 Grand Cherokees, 1 Chrysler 300M and my favorite, a 94 Caprice 9C1.
I bought Grand Cherokees because that is what my wife and daughter preferred over the Blazer (Ford was never in the running). And let’s face it, even though they aren’t going off road, that reputation DOES carry over when the drive is only on pavement and gives them the confidence they will get out if they “offroad it”.
The 300M because Cadillac wasn’t competing at the same level, decreased interior space, cargo space and less horsepower. Taking it for a drive did not excite me the same as the 300M did.
The 9C1 like I say is my baby, bought because I couldn’t FIND an Impala SS at the time I was looking at the 300M and I could not pass up the price.
I cannot speak high enough praises about a car with 130k miles (is it broken in yet?), rides and handles extremely well and still breaks the rear end loose even if your doing 15-20mph and stomp on it.
All that and I still get 26 mph on the highway and 19 in the city, almost as good as the 300M which has a V-6!
My son owns a Honda Civic DX because there isn’t an American made car that’s “cool” and you can customize no matter what you budget is. Even though his friends have turbos, NOS and supercharged their imports they respect the Impalas and 9C1’s for their raw power and torque.
And when he is playing his PS2 he is kicking butt and taking names with “American Muscle” and can’t wait to tell me about his latest car.
My wife thinks I’m nuts because I a want to order a fresh LT1, the engine performance kit along with other parts, pieces etc.
Not to mention new trim so the car can get a fresh coat of white to make her look factory fresh with some extra punch and still be a daily driver. Why this crazed enthusiasm over a sedan? Wish I knew, the bubbly verbage would be rated… or could it be it’s a well styled car that eats Marauders and others without flinching while you get that gallon of milk. Could be it provides a great ride to the grandchildren in another state while still begging to be DRIVEN!
Might I suggest getting out of Detroit for a couple of days and talking one on one to the owners and enthusiast groups, let them buy you lunch and twist an ear, I know you’d enjoy it and so would they.
This is what Jeep does at Camp Jeep every year, they send the engineers to the people!
Anyway, don’t know what your going to do about bring back RWD and something with some guts but I know I’m buying more STUFF for my 9C1!
Thank you for your time.
quick low cost fixes
1.Put all wheel drive on SRX
2. come with pontiac SRX to supply the coming demand for srx and equinox type vehicles.
3.ditch cobalt rename cavalier huge free media like original coke.
4.ditch lacrosse go see why old people like the 500 and put one in the buick line up quick.
5.come with camaro, firebird on gto platform , make gto look better than grand am gto has the chassis but no looks.
6.come with 4 door gas/electric 60 mpg car.
I ussually charge for this.
Lutz Responds
GM’s Bob Lutz says GM is not getting out of the rear wheel drive business and hints at the rear wheel drive cars GM may sell soon.
time 4 the bean counters 2 get out of the way! I think it is a huge mistake 2 discontinue the zeta architechure when the market is going there as well as all wheel drive. Forget about hydrogen fuel cells, its just another ev1. Liscence the technology from toyota and do what ford is doing.
Ancient roman legions used to rebel and elect their new emperor. Perhaps we in canada should put in our set of “demands” in september and say we want Bob Lutz as our new CEO!!! A real car guy! GM moves too slow and it has 2 move faster! Did anyone read about toyota’s plans to reduce the labour costs in their assembly plants 2 chinese levels with 2 armed advanced assembly robots? If GM does that, i am not worried, the more machinary they stick in, the more i have 2 fixx!
P.S.1.hurry up with that new 6 speed transmission, 4 speed is sooooo passe!
P.S.2. beancounters don’t know the car business and they have no vision.
P.S.3. where the H**l is the Solstice? That is one sweet car! DO NOT waste anymore time on that one!
Mr. Lutz,
After reading an article where you state you’re killing the Zeta platform and then come back on this blog with “it’s not the end of RWD”…which are we to believe? Anyone can talk the talk but so far only Ford and Dodge have walked that talk!
I’m not a loyal GM fan. In fact I’m not a loyal brand name fan of any vehicle. I shop based on reliability, looks, comfort, and power. And value if it’s under $40K. The last GM vehicle I owned was a 1976 Grand Prix I bought after my 1968 GTO. I’m not much into two door sports coupes or I’d have a new C5 or C6 ‘Vette.
From the late ’70s until just a few years back buying a new car was far from exciting. But now, the fun is back…except for the GM line. You see I waited for the new GTO. When GM presented it in ‘04 I yawned and waited for the new ‘07. Now, like thousands of others, I’m tired of waiting. GM has exhausted my patience. Ford and Dodge have showed us their stuff…and it’s good (actually the GT500 is GREAT); they listened to those who are “the customers.” Read the blogs here, Bob. What are “the customers” saying?
There are some very loud messages here for sure. First, bring the Camaro back. It’s obvious that you’ve already missed the boat. I wonder just how many former Camaro/Firebird owners now own or will own Mustangs? That’s your money they’re taking!!
Second, fix – don’t drop – the GTO. Give us a GTO that doesn’t look like a FWD ’90s Grand Am/Grand Prix off-spring. Take the Ram Air VI concept GTO and make it happen. Make sure to keep the nice ride and interior you have in the current GTO but give it the needed hp to compete with the new Fords and Dodges. Give the buyers engine options. Make sure to have an upper end L7 option, however. Keep the GTO at the upper end of the sports car line. Its competion shouldn’t be the Mustang but rather the BMW type cars. The GTO shouldn’t have to be a $22-28K car if you’d bring the Camaro back to compete with the Mustang.
One more thing…and a VERY IMPORTANT THING. It’s way past due for you to quit talking out the side of your mouth and tell us what the heck you are planning on doing for ‘07 and ‘08. What cars are to be in the line-up? Give us an idea of what these cars will look like and some specifications. You’re in the know…now it’s time for “the customers” to be in the know. I can assure you – and I’m sure I’m not speaking alone here – that we “the customers” are really tired of hearing nothing but talk without walk. If you can’t let us know what you’re planning with models like the Camaro and GTO then it is apparent they are not part of GM’s near future. The here-and-now of Ford and Dodge is real; for GM it’s just air and you can’t drive air. Give “the customers” something quick Bob or “the customers” are going to go elsewhere to the others that have the proven goods. Listen to us. We obviously have money for a new car. If GM doesn’t produce it fast then we have no choice but to go elsewhere.
Oh, about the truck and SUV focus…way too little and even way more too late. How many SUVs are there already? How many trucks are there already? Isn’t GM already selling these types of vehicles? If you’re having a problem selling the GM SUV and trucks then maybe, just maybe, you should think about getting some vehicles out in the market place that “the customers” want.
Bob, bottom line: GM can’t see the forest through the trees.
GM Decides to Become a Niche Company
But he pulled the plug on the North America models after determining the vehicles could not be engineered and assembled to sell at prices competitive with the popular Chrysler 300C, Ford Mustang and other models, without sacrificing quality and content…
Bob,
I’ve been a loyal GM customer since 1988 and would like to continue purchasing GM vehicles, mainly Pontiacs. Is there any possible way to built the next GTO or any other RWD vehicle on the Sigma platform and still keep prices reasonable? GM dominated the muscle car era back in the ’60s and it would look to awkward if Ford and DCX has affordable RWD cars and GM doesn’t
Mr. Lutz:
I have recently purchased a 2005 Jimmy ZR2, and am exremely happy with my purchase. I live in the snowbelt here in Manitoba, and enjoy the security that 4WD brings.
This is my fourth straight 4WD GM vehicle, but the first new one.
Love 4WD, and love my new Jimmy, the 2nd one I’ve owned.
Thank you very much for the factory discount, I wouldn’t have been able to purchase this truck without it.
We in Canada don’t always earn what our American counterparts do, and the taxes up here really add up.
I was wondering if GM was considering building a 2-door (that’s what I bought), off of the new Canyon/Colorado platform?
After the Jimmy/Blazer duo is laid to rest, only Ford will offer a two-door SUV. Is the 2-door SUV desired? I think so.
The Colorado/Canyon platform with the 5-cylinder would be a very attractive vehicle, not only in the U.S., but here in Canada as well.
I’d hate to think of Ford being the only 2-door SUV option in the future.
I have owned Fords, I have owned Toyotas, and I have enjoyed my GMC trucks.
As a holder of a GM Visa, I’d be very happy to hear that General Motors is going to build a 2-door SUV, especially with a small Diesel, and/or Hybrid option!
Cheers,
Michael Grant
HAPPY EASTER GM AND LUTZ.
I say happy Easter because let’s stop and be thankful for once. Thankful that GM is still here and is still #1.
What people should be asking is how can a company with so many problems and bad choices still be #1? It is because you don’t have all your eggs in one basket. When you mess up on the Buick LaCrosse, your Cadillac art & science comes to the rescue. When you mess up in North America China comes to the rescue. Hay put Buick’s headquarters in China.
It’s hard to get all the baskets up all at once and that is alright, it’s hard to take them all down at once too. So don’t get rid of anymore baskets.
Be thankful and keep what you have then set a dream. Here’s mine. An XLR, Corvette, Velite, Solstice and Sky in full production and racing together in a commercial and then the tag line “ONLY GM.” Absolute coupe dominance!!!
Only GM has the recipe to make that many flavors from the same ingredients. Still I am thankful we have the Corvette and XLR and that we can still dream about the others coming because your still here.
So I say, Thank You! for making dreams like these and then making those dreams come true.
MAY GOD SAVE THE NEAPOLITAN!!!
Message to CTS-V managers.
Yor Cadillac web site is terrible. Check out the Infinity M35/45 site. Check out the Audi S or BMW sites. Learn something.
I’m in the market for a luxury performance sedan. My first stop was Cadillac for a CTS-V, no car, no brochure, duh…stop back we’re supposed to get one soon. Yep that the place I want to buy a car!
Infinity, great web site, sent me a detailed and informative brochure (I’m an engineer, it had real. content) Went to the nearest dealer 100 miles away. Had the car (almost m35 vs M45) I wanted, color, interior lined up went for a test ride, every feature was fully explained by a lady who new her stuff and as not afraid to say so when she did not. (PS M35/45 has the best interior I’ve seen.
I just got off the Cadillac site and CTS-V site. Nice video clips but no real description of the CTS-V.
What is stable-trac?? duh
What are the demensions? Weight? Nothing on the engine at all.
BRembo brakes..no details
If i try to compare the M45, the Audi A6 or S4 to the CTVS the cadi come up with no info…and a pass!
I get on the Cadillac general site an the first thing I notice is the link to customer rebates. Now, I know what the ask your dealer first.
Guys, your product is good. Yes i found a CTS-V and drove one, but your Web marketing s**ks.
Get on the stick or you will lose more customers like me.
Bob Zeliff
Bridport Vt.
Mr Lutz – 5 B investment in Cadillac. I go and sit in an STS – the interior looks like it came from an Impala at Hertz? If your asking us to pay 55K then go sit in a BMW or a Lexus and tell me Cadiallac competes? How can your costs be higer than a car built in Germany? This is GM’s problem – the interiors are not competitive in any GM vehicle.
Bob,
I am disappointed with the news regarding the Zeta platform. I was hoping for a Camaro myself. But I think a more important product is a rear wheel drive sedan for Chevrolet. You may or may not remember the 1977 Caprice/Impala that was a major hit. It was trim, efficient, roomy and good performance for its era, and it sold like hotcakes. The design lasted from 1977-1990 and the chassis was re-skinned and used from 1991 to 1996. I am sure that the drivetrain and some suspension parts could be shared with a Camaro.
It’s getting tougher each year to remain a GM fan. A RWD Chevy sedan and Camaro would pump some excitement into the brand and the rest of GM. FWD V-8 Impalas will not do it. What about a 2006 version of the 1996 Impala SS? That would be exciting.
Mr. Lutz,
I don’t know who is really driving GM, but many of us out here wonder if it is Moe, Curly or Larry.
PLEASE consider these relatively easy, quick and inexpensive fixes for some of your GM lines:
1. COLORS: Most of the Buick (my favorite line) colors look as if they were chosen by the National Funeral Directors Association–dark, boring and bland. Bring back some vibrant metallic blues, reds and yes, even occassionally a green or two. Not every color needs to be one or two shades from black (dark) silver or white! With computerized assembly processes, how much trouble would it really be to add some vibrant color choices?
2. TWO-DOORS: The Monte Carlo is a great platform with the 3.8 SC engine. Why not develop an AFFORDABLE Riviera and Gran Prix two-door from that platform? How about a Riv that looks like the 63-65 milestone car to help compete with Ford’s new Mustang? If you don’t want to call it a Riv or GP, fine, but BUILD SOMETHING! Not everyone wants to buy a Cadillac or Corvette in order to get a two-door car. Too expensive to buy and insure. Same is true with the Cobalt; small, tight and cramped.
3. INTERIORS: Since when did shades of gray get to be designer colors?
You and I are both old enough to remember interiors that came in something other than tan or Dorian gray. More brushed aluminum, chrome or retro-looking trim, along with realistic looking wood accents.
I recently drove a Colorado LS as a rental vehicle. Good lord, that was a boring interior!
And please, have your buyers buy leather that MATCHES in color and grain. My last Buick Regal GS had a leather interior that looked as if it was made from scraps.
4. CHOICES IN CARS: More of them, period. You used to be able to choose from a stripped down Biscayne up to a Caprice that was more Cadillac than Chevy. Now your cars either look like they come from a rental car fleet (plain and boring) or they are loaded to the gills (probably ordered as a dealer demo). To paraphrase Moses, “let your designers free!”
5. WARRANTY: It doesn’t make sense for GM to spend millions telling me their cars are better, yet still only offer a 3/36 warranty, especially when a Hyundai costs half as much and offers a 5/60 B2B warranty.
Hey, these GM cars are EXPENSIVE to fix when out of warranty, especially when the dealers are trying to run up the repair bill when the CUSTOMER is paying!
6. EYE CANDY: I guess anything not already covered falls into this catagory. For example, why does GM act as if OnStar is some divine revelation that will sell cars? Most cell phones less than 2 years old have a GPS chip, and more 911 systems companies can read their location every day. In addition, most cellular plans are a MUCH better buy than an OnStar subscription. Your OnStar service is not worth $17 per month, and it will not convince people to buy an otherwise boring car or truck.
Bring back flash, style and personality.
Here’s an example: In San Antonio, Cavender Buick is ordering most Lacrosse models with the “six-passenger” seating option, which turns a great-looking sporty bucket seat interior into a geezer-mobile. If people want a Lesabre, fine; but don’t let the Lacrosse (and other new models) be turned into another car for the rental fleets or a car that only appeals to the AARP crowd.
A HUGE GM fan,
Joe
By the way, if you want to have a discussion with REAL GM owners, just let me know where and when you would like to meet.
I’ll be there.
Joe Wiggins
If the General doesn’t snap himself into a reality check of marketing and what the public wants soon, the public will start taking medals away from him. If Chrysler can throw something against the wall and make it stick, i.e. Viper and the full line of performance trucks, and Ford can whip out a sleek new retro ‘Stang that actually goes good, and looks great, tell me why does GM constantly strive for 3rd place? Toyota is about to move into the big 3 spot and GM doesn’t even care. Perhaps they should add a few more divisions, which is exactly the reason they are in the boat they are in. They just don’t get it.
Mr. Lutz:
I don’t know why I’m writing this – I should just go buy a Lexus and be done with it. But for some reason I still care about GM.
A little background. I’m a 49 yo professional. My wife drives a 2001 GMC Yukon XL that we purchased new. My car is a 5-series BMW that I am seeking to replace, due to the rapid growth of (a) my waistline and (b) my teenage sons. Despite currently owning an import, I would consider a domestic sedan.
My comments are as follows:
(1) Having owned one fwd car and driven many others, I will never own another. If you do not offer a good rwd sedan, I will not be a customer.
(2) I am a mature individual. I do not want a midlife crisis-mobile. I will start buying Pontiac “excitement” right after I start buying gold-plated “Mr. T” chains. Chevrolet? A “Blue-Light Special” for those who don’t know how to find the Toyota dealership. Cadillac? Solid gold chains, plus a honkin’ ring; for people with great taste, all in their mouths.
(3) Lexus and Acura have it figured out – tasteful quality. You guys killed Oldsmobile, the only other brand that could have carried it off. So it had better be a Buick.
(4) So there it is – a Buick on a decent rwd platform. With an ohc V-8. And conservative styling. And it had better be soon or I’m going to go buy that Lexus (or a maybe a Chrysler 300).
Good Luck.
I am yet another camaro-phile. I currently own the 2001 convertible and before that I had a ‘97 convertible.
The concept pictures that I’ve seen on the internet have caused quite a stir here in my office (especially the red w/black stripes) and we’ve all decided if they come out with that 68/69 retro look we will all go together and buy them.
Both my husband and myself have been loyal GM fans but as research will tell you, average car buyers start looking for something new in 5 years… hmmm. 01 – 05… I can wait if there is a new camaro…please don’t make me buy a freakin’ mustang.
I just bought a new 2005 Mustang GT. I probably would have gone for the GTO if it had a retro look; especially the 66-67, sadly it looks like the Pontiac Gran Ma. If you wan’t a winner with the boomers Mr Lutz build a 1957 Chev Bel Air with V8 rwd and modern convinences. I also had a 1965 Impala SS I loved.
Mr. Lutz,
When is GM going to learn that it needs competitive product, not lipservice in order to maintain and/or gain market share?
I could do a better job of product planning without even trying.
I think it’s simply amazing that GM keeps putting crap cars on the NA market when smaller markets such as Europe and Australia get vehicles that are exponentially better.
Let’s look at Buick for example: Why is it that Buick doesn’t offer a large rear drive sedan in the NA market when it offers one in China? Surely more would be sold here than there. Instead, the NA Buick “renaissance” has so far consisted of the somewhat homely Rendezvous, with a seriously outdated and underpowered standard engine, the Rainier, a barely warmed over Bravada with a really cheap looking interior, the Terraza, a fully uncompetitive minivan, the LaCrosse, derivative sheetmetal on a 17 year old platform sporting a 43 year old engine as standard equipment (the pictures of the Chinese Regal replacement circulating the internet show a MUCH more distinctive and classier car), and finally, the Lucerne, essentially a reskinned LeSabre on a 10 year old platform with a 43 year old engine as standard equipment.
Do I even need to ask you how GM execs (as well as yourself) keep a straight face when they say that Buick is supposed to be competitive with Lexus? I don’t think ANYONE at GM should have ANY QUESTION why the market share has continued to slide.
Somebody needs to wake the h**l up or else Toyota will become the largest seller of vehicles in the NA market. The really sad part of all of this is that there are soooo many people out there who want GM to succeed and would like GM to build a car that he/she would be proud to own. All you have to do is go read the posts on this website and read the posts from the other GM enthusiast sites out there. These people are willing to tell you EXACLTY what they want, in essence, doing your market research for you for free.
The market is demanding RWD vehicles. BMW, Mercedes, and Infiniti sell quite a few of them. Mainstream brands like Chrysler and Ford are getting into the act to some degree as well. If you want to preserve RWD performance at GM, build a RWD platform that Buick and Pontiac can share, distance them from Chevy, and suddenly these brands will regain some respect in enthusiast circles. All you need are a midsize and large sedan and one crossover from this platform for each division, and you have your economies of scale and some serious products that consumers will take seriously without large rebates.
Bob,
It makes me sad to think that GM will soon be overtaken in sales, on our home turf mind you, by Toyota. My Dad used to work for Buick back when everyone wanted to own one, and now we’re both in disbelief at how blatently obvious it is that GM executives don’t really care that they’re losing market share to the imports. Price, product and marketing are way off the mark at GM. Back in the ’60s and ’70s, GM was the trendsetters of the automotive industry, now you’re totally struggling.
When Dad and I both saw the Buick Velite, we were excited, we hoped that this could possibly be the car that puts Buick back on target for young professionals. But GM killed it. Unreal. Now, for Buick we have an underpowered and overpriced car based on an old platform with lukewarm styling (LaCrosse). The Lucerne will be too pricey also. Be honest, why would someone spend $40k on a 275hp Buick when they can have a rear drive InfinitiM35 V6 with more horsepower???? I look at the new Infinitis and I wonder, “why can’t the new Buicks look and perform like those cars. They cost about the same???” Hmmm, maybe because GM is more concerned with large bonuses for the executives and bottom line as opposed to long-term customer loyalty and market share?
What is GM thinking???? Why can’t Buick give me something cool like the G35 Coupe?? Why can’t Pontiac or Chevrolet give me something muscular like the Mustang??? Why can’t we get a Buick LeSabre that has 340 horsepower and rear wheel drive like the 300C or M45 for $35,000, with a great interior filled with latest and greatest technology???????? You’re the largest, most resourceful car company in the world. Come on guys!!!!! Why can’t I go to a Cadillac showroom and get a cool looking coupe like the BMW 3-Series Coupe????
Until we get some product that can compete with cutting edge style and power like you guys did back in the ’60s and ’70s (the 1971 Riveria was awesome!) – then you will be nothing more than a full size truck company in five years, with just 2 divisions left.
Also, some advice – bring back the positions you once had where you had field reps calling on your dealer network. Your dealer network is abandoning you, and it will continue to be another factor in the demise of your corporation.
Bob
A couple of years ago I bought a Lexus GS300. It opened my eyes to the pleasures of RWD, especially with the anti-lock brakes and traction control that are available now. Anybody nostalgic for one of those RWD camaros never drove it in the snow. Anyway, I was disappointed in the decision, and was certainly willing to give the car a look. I enjoy my Suburban, which has gotten me over my skittishness on American quality, having started driving in the ’70s, when, well, you know.
Everyone’s wondering “why isn’t there an RWD coupe available from GM?”
The answer is simple: Right now, GM will make more money by squeezing the last few drops from the damp rag that is the SUV/big-pickup market. GM could sell a 2004 Yukon for $50K+, or a nominal 2004 Camaro for $23K. That’s a no-brainer.
Plus which, I have a terrible fear that they’re learning the wrong lesson from the Monaro->GTO story. I’m worried that it’s going to be interpreted as “Hey, we brought this car from overseas and people bought it–that must mean that people like cars from overseas!” As a result, instead of new designs, the next few years of GM will just be rebaged Aussie cars.
Horrifying implication: GM advertises a “2006 Camaro”, then unveils a Monaro with yet another new bumper…
Why not make something that looks more like a Pontiac like this concept:
http://www.carphotoalbums.com/photos/data/859/111999-Pontiac-GTO-Concept-Rear-Angle-med.jpg
GM’s marque has always been great looking cars.
Differentiate from the ugly Toyota jelly bean look. People don’t but Toyotas because of their looks, they buy them because they are brainwashed.
Why this concept design for Pontiac with the vertical slant back headlight, this is the best one I’ve seen:
http://ultimategto.com/cgi-bin/showcar.cgi?type=show&pic=/2004/04_00111_1
Can this be done in RWD?
Bob, exactly what in God’s name is going on there at the GM offices!!?? Please tell me why it takes so long for GM to bring cars out as concepts? I honestly would not buy any other brands of vehicles, but General Motors has really been disappointing me lately. And what is this callamity I hear about the company dropping quadrasteer?! I think you need to spend less money “reallocating resources” and more money on kicking the blank out of Ford and Toyota to stay #1 in the auto market. Get it together or get out Bob, and quit it with the false promises.
My last 2 highly negative experiences with American cars (1980 Chevrolet Citation & 1992 Ford Taurus) made me swear never to buy American again. If you want me back in an American car, however, please build the Kappa-platform Chevrolet Nomad powered by a forced-induction (be it supercharged or turbocharged)version of the 2.4-liter 4.
Too little too late…..
GM has left Firebird and Camaro fans out in the icy winter for too long. I personally have given up hope on an affordable rear drive replacement. Case-in-point: I recently needed a 4 door sedan and looked at the Malibu and Camry, after considering the way GM has isolated Fbody fans I steered clear of the Malibu and bought a new Camry.
Sorry GM, loyalty only goes so far…business is all about relationships and you are not tending to your customers needs by slashing the Fbodies with no clue or word of a replacement.
Dear Mr. Lutz:
Please put a 240HP V6 in the GTO with cloth seats, a different face & taillights sell it even with a resurrected nostalgic Pontiac name to compete w/ V6 Ford Mustang! @ $24K, Im 33 and I’d buy it.
GM fans both young and old would buy good quality RWD, AWD & FWD vehicles with GM names. So why does GM kill off its popular model names and introduce new ones that no one knows? The last generation Oldsmobile cars were quite good but they lost touch with their loyal customer base who knew what a Cutlass, 88, 98 was. Now Buick and Pontiac is doing it with LaCrosse, Lucerne G6, G8 crap, give us good cars named Regal, LeSabre, Grand Am and Grand Prix. Honda has had the Civic and Accord for over 20 years and people recognize those models. It may work for Cadillac – but please all GM division don’t compete with Acura or Infiniti so why try and name your cars like them?
To start with… I’m an F-body owner, with an 02′ Z28.
I’d love to see GM come out with another affordable ($25k-$35k) RWD performance car. The GTO is a fine car, but for a fully loaded model, it can get pretty expensive.
Of course, I’d love to see GM ressurect the Camaro. The retro first gen Camaro concept car found on the internet is awesome, by the way. That car would definately give the new Stangs a run for their money!
But if not the Camaro… maybe another car from the past?
Could Buick bring back the Grand National? A high horsepower turbo V6 I feel would definately sell.
What about some other nameplates? Let’s not forget Chevelle and Nova.
I’m willing to bet that if Chevy came out with an all-new RWD, V-8 Chevelle SS or Nova SS, retro-based off the late ’60s and early ’70s, people would buy it. I know I would.
GM knows how to Blog…. For a company
Check out the company blog that acts like a blog and serves as a press release.
just a question.what happend to the split engine concept that was touted for several years?
Bob, whoever said that you can’t have high performance in a FWD vehicle? I take issue with those comments. My 1971 Toronado with its rocket 455 never had a torque steering problem and quite regularly burned the front tires up, the same can be said of newer versions that I had owned through the years prior to the 1980’s newer models. Does any one of your design staff recall what the Wildcat V-8 did for the Buick brand? The Buick cars of the ’60s-’70s were very powerful. massive torque and performance competitive within the products own destinctive styling.
I have recently retired my 1972 Chevy C-10 LB 4×4, it has over 240K Michigan miles, the intake manifold has -never- been removed. Up until 1983 it could race and actually beat Z-28’s regularly. The Chevy engineering team responsible for its creation deserve congratulations. I can imagine what the 5300 powertrain setup in my 2001 Silverado would do in a new Camero. Maybe you could put the Wildcat back into Buick?…Thanks,
Sam M.
You say you are committed to producing RWD HI-Performance vehicles but I really question that. While Ford has the Mustang RWD V8 (Cobra & Roush) Chrysler is comming out with the new RWD 425HP SRT8 Dodge Charger. Chevrolet comes out with the Cobalt, boring!
Chevrolet’s Impala, Monte Carlo and Malibu names bring back memories of a great automotive era of cars which could be configured as Mom & Pop grocery getters or optioned out to be real muscle cars. Chevrolets new vehicles which bear the same names are truly boring low HP plain Jane’s which are a disgrace to the names.
Yes the Corvette is truly a great sports car (I have owned three of them) but what about those of us you want STYLE, COMFORT, HORSEPOWER and ROOM FOR FOUR.
I have never bought a Ford but I would seriously consider the new Charger since it offers what I am looking for.
Just how long do I have to wait for GM to come to the party with a real car?
Bill
Dear Mr. Joe Wiggins:
How dare you insult the genius that is Moe, Larry and Curly. You should be ashamed of yourself. Not only were they geniuses, but their “product” sold. Not only did it sell, but it left the people screaming for more.
You should apologize for bringing them into this topic. If Moe, Larry and Curly were running GM right now, the marketing would be awesome, the product would be great, there would be more and more demand for GM vehicles and it would all be about FUN TO DRIVE, MUSCLE DRIVEN, TAKE NO PRISONERS, GREATLY BUILT AMERICAN CARS.
GM should be so lucky to have Moe, Larry and Curly doing the job, instead they have Homer Simpson and Krusty the Clown making decisions. One worried about the particular second, not the future, the other worried about his bottom line, his bank accounts and his fame while in the seat.
Fix it, or see if with modern technology, which that’s even lacking at GM today, they can bring back the 3 Stooges to fix the joint.
Sasquatch
Dear Mr Lutz,
Well you better get with the mags (MT,CD,etc). They are already touting the zeta cars that everyone has been anxiously awaiting. I guess since those new DM RWD’s have been such a flop, your decision makes sense????????????
>GM fans both young and old would buy good quality RWD, AWD & FWD vehicles with GM names. So why does GM kill off its popular model names and introduce new ones that no one knows? The last generation Oldsmobile cars were quite good but they lost touch with their loyal customer base who knew what a Cutlass, 88, 98 was. Now Buick and Pontiac is doing it with LaCrosse, Lucerne G6, G8 crap, give us good cars named Regal, LeSabre, Grand Am and Grand Prix. Honda has had the Civic and Accord for over 20 years and people recognize those models. It may work for Cadillac – but please all GM division don’t compete with Acura or Infiniti so why try and name your cars like them?
Dont get me wrong I love the Camaro, but am I the only one here who would love BMW Series knock off? a balanced rwd coupe/sedan with a beautiful 6 banger and a stick. The closest thing I can get right now is a CTS
Kudos to the new Pontiac TV ads.
At first I thought it was an ad for Mercedes or Nissan or Infiniti because the ad looked so hip and usually GM ads are boring.
Keep it up and change the ads for the Caddy’s and Chevy’s and Buicks also.
I personally wouldn’t mind seeing the 2007 GTO on one of the Caddy platforms and having the stacked headlamp look. I just worry that we won’t see as good of quality interiors if we make the GTO in the US. I’ve seen the new Mustang interior. It’s old & boring. If I wanted a retro that looked exactly like a 60s car then I’d buy the real deal. The Mustang is all show, and no go. That fact has historically been proven time and time again. Trust me, those Mustangs will fall apart in 3 years. I used to own one and I will never buy a Ford again for all the quality issues I had with it. Mustang = Junk. The GTO is a special car and it deserves special treatment. Let’s bring some life in it by making it look mean w/out going all out retro. Retro is not the answer. Go buy an original and fix it up if you want retro.
Go Resto!! Not Retro!!
GMC is now General Motors second best selling division and has been doing very well for some time. Now is not the time for the corporation to neglect this successful brand name. To maintain it’s high sales ranking it will be very important that GM keep the make supplied with fresh new product.
My suggestions:
1) A mildly face lifted version of the Cadillac SRX with specific GMC grille and tailgate design. It’s only fair since Cadillac was able to receive a version of the Denali some years ago. The success of the Escalade may make you wonder: did GMC save Cadillac?
2) A Jeep Wrangler like vehicle with an removable and/or canvas top.
3) Bring back a Caballero and ElCamino like vehicles.
4) Will GMC get a replacement for the GMC Safari mini-van?
That means the GTO is still not going away, right? right?
right? Arggh! It better not!
Perhaps someone needs a refresher course on why we actually have FWD cars? Not because of the “hype” of them being great in the snow. It is cost. Like everything, it is COST. It is far lesser expensive to install a motor/transaxle assembly than an engine, trans, driveline and rear end. Cost was the ONLY factor for all of them. Personally, I think GM is never going to listen or manufacture what the consumers want. They will continue on this road to force-feeding us what they THINK we want.
And you can cut up the new ‘Stang all you want, but just remember Ford listened to its consumers. And as far as looks without performance the new Shelby will have 450 horses at the wheels…..that’s the rear wheels by the way. And I am a dyed in the wool GM fan. You want a successful automobile? Monte Carlo, last mfr’d platform, RWD, 6 speed and they can even use the 6, or to be creative an 8 in it. My guess? Never happen. They don’t listen.
Chrysler and Ford listen. They listen to consumers, they listen to engineers, even with whacked-out ideas. GM may wake up when those making the Tundra are now part of the big three. And GM is then part of the big sleep….
Year-end incentives got us to look at and drive an ‘04 GTO. We searched, found and leased one of the last 6-speed cars in our area and it happened to be Cosmos Purple.
What an amazing car. Sorry to have believed (and repeated the putdowns) all the pundits and reviewers who badmouthed the car as “bland” unexciting, etc.
It’s a blast to drive, doesn’t attract undue attention from law-enforcement types, and the styling grows on you! Those who know, speculate on the CD, and wind tunnel testing. The design is subtle and attractive, and even the young guys at the car wash are starting to realize that there’s something special under the hood.
It’s too subtle perhaps, for the Camaro set, but perfect for a more affluent demographic!
The after-sale treatment has been the best we’ve ever received, with the magazine, and even a copy of the fancy brochure doing a lot to engender brand loyalty.
We’ve already discussed getting another GTO when the leas is up, now we hear that there won’t be one! I wish you’d been able to back up the commitment and effort it took to get this car to market, and convince the bean counters to have a little patience.
I never thought I’d be praising the “new” GTO, but it’s my favorite car out of all the “performance cars” we’ve had, including ‘72 Gran Torino Sport, ‘73 Z-28, ‘76 TransAm, ‘75 Corvette, ‘93 BMW 850CI, ‘95 Taurus SHO. We were tempted by the Z06 ‘Vette, but the GTO is reasonably practical, and goes really well in the snow too?
I doubt that there will be any reconsideration, but here’s a vote (and thanks) for the GTO.
I googled RWD and Chevy and found some news about this zeta platform and was excited. I thought to my self “Why did it take so long”. I am looking to replace my vetren ‘87 Caprice LS Brohm. and wanted something with 4 doors, nice lines, RWD and a V8. The zeta sounded perfect, but then I read this statment from uncle bob. I mean does he really want me to go and buy a 300C or Charger. I think with the amount of people buying these cars and other RWD, V8 powered sedens from the Japan and Germany. Someone needs to shake some sense into these people, I don’t need a 4WD pickup/SUV. I live in New England with all of its ice and snow and have always driven RWD GMs (except for a 4WD ranger I used for a few months when my ‘83 LeSabre’s trans blew up). The reaonsoning behind all of this hoopla around pickups/SUVs is that they are safer and give you more control. How is it that Volvo can provide so much safety in their cars but not be so dependent on trucks ( granted they now have a SUV and many models have AWD). I think GM just needs to realize that some people that know how to drive in the snow and ice with RWD want to drive a RWD car. There isn’t much more pleasing to me than to go out on a nice summer day in my “old man car” or “living room on wheels” and whip around s-turns and open the throttle up and hear the Qjet roar. America is calling Uncle Bob, answer the phone.
P.S. the GTO is good mechanically and the interior is nice just change that sheetmetal, umm, can anyone say ugly!
Bark at the Moon
INSIDE: The future of GM’s midrange What I’m listening to
It is becoming clear that as GM finally enters upon its globalization process, the brands may have to adapt. There will be basically four “global” brands: Cadillac: full-line lu…
Been driving a 96 Caprice police unit for years. Love them, but where did we go when we wore it out? Why went with the Blue Oval boys becasue Chevy could no longer build a good, solid police package. I bet FORD loves you guys now. Bring back a performance chevy RWD and I will sell ever Ford my family owns.
Ron
mr lutz or who this message might reach the gto should be a tad bit bigger like the one in the 60s retro style and the new camaro should look like some of the sketches they got out retro 68-69 style rear wheal drive for the v-8 muscle cars and i guarantee you will sell them like hotcakes like in the 50-60s bring that nostalgia back thats what true americans want
I am still waiting for a RWD GM vehicle with a “Bowtie” on it . I have bought my wife an Impala , but its not the same driving it , like it lacks a soul .
I say GM needs to blitz the market with affordable RWD vehicles quickly and swiftly , with Patriotic in your face advertising . Perhaps it will help turn America around .
In the meantime I will keep restoring my 70 Chevelle , and driving my 83 K5 Blazer daily , on the original engine I might add .
I must praise GM for making a much better quality lineup than they have in the past. Now as for your big name plate Chev olds your sticking them hard. Taking away oldsmobile fine but did not olds outsell buick in it’s final year. You give chev Equinox and Aveo, fair pontiac has the Vibe. Then you give Pontiac the 2. I now Chev is getting the HHR.
But HEY!! The PT Cruiser has been out a few years and now is getting on consumers nerves and wow what a time to bring the HHR out great timing . Get with it look at the Ideas being thrown out by the likes of Ford and Dodge ,Mazdaand Honda just to name a few. Be inovative take a risk Chev needs it. And I am not talking a $50,000 car. A funky afordable fun car or cars anyone could own. And I don’t mean a solstice copy for Chev. Get your Imagination back, do what made you great. You were once a leader, you can lead again. Or you will fall out of sight behind everyone else.
Redesigned Camaro with 60’s Nastalgia Please.
That will be the next new car I purchase. And likely the next GM car I purchase.
I really don’t know whats going on with GM financially, but I can’t understand how cancelling the Zeta Platform with help you in your production of cars that are plainly plain and not stirring any excitement! And now the zeta platform is cancelled, which to me truthfully was the basis of the long awaited CAMARO! Not only have you once again killed the third most recognized nameplate in the chevy lineup, but killed the loyalty of your customers and supporters! So you now engage in a losing campaign of SUV and trucks sales and in turn lose fans and customers to the ford mustang and Dodge charger! But then again I’m just one of the millions, yes millions of people who feel this way! The heartbeat of america has just been flatlined!
A GM supporter and Camaro enthusiasts
P.S. If you build it, they will come!
The heartbreak of America, that’s today’s Chevrolet without the Camaro.
And the Velite screams build me louder than any car since the Viper.
While Buick is suffering from cancer, GM delays or refuses the cancer treatment in the form of the Velite.
Buick should be rewarded for all the quality awards that it just recieved, instead it gets squeezed in Between Pontiac and GMC and gets squeezed out of product.
And all along the solution to Buick’s problem the Velite and a Velite sedan sits in GM’s design center collecting dust.
Let me tell you the Velite is the Best Buick concept ever and it should be built at once.
Velite can do for Buick what art & science did for Cadillac. A true design direction.
Come on posters, lets keep on fighting.
In ref. to Mr. Lutz’ posting on the cancelation of the Zeta program: It’s difficult to understand why GM is hesitant to re-introduce vehicles such as the camaro and firebird. look at the sales Dodge has with vehicles such as the Hemi powered magnums and chargers. Ford is still selling plenty of mustangs. GM management needs to realize, even with current gas prices and the slow market, Americans still desire American cars with plenty of muscle. I can’t see people rushing out to buy a Cobalt. If GM went back to there roots and made the vehicles that made GM a dominant automotive power, both consumers and GM execs would be happy. Think for a minute, how would it be if GM still put out legendary cars like Chevelles, Novas, Camaros, GTOs and Firebirds. If GM could just go ahead and eat a little crow,get back to making GM customers are asking for, Ford and Mopar couldn’t touch the General. I hope this is read by Mr. Lutz and company and is taken to heart.
Give me a V8 RWD Buick please. Copy the M45, that’s what they did to us for 20 years. STS is the way, just can’t drive a Caddy in a sales job. Could even be a Pontiac, but not one that looks like a Grand Prix (they all do). Lucerne would do with RWD! I’ve been driving Bonnevilles (until they went the GP look) and now Park Aves (1 every 2-3 years for about 15 of them). Didn’t have much of a choice in RWD then except BMW (again can’t do with a sales job). For the first time in my adult life I’m considering a foreign M45. HELP ease the pain!
Bring back the Firebird and the Camaro…not one or the other. Both. But ABSOLUTELY DO NOT bring them back unless they are affordable, solid axle, rear-wheel-drive, V8-powered, sleek looking, and able to annihlate all Mustangs. Every generation of F-Body was beautifull, if you bring them back, please don’t embarass thier legendary nameplates with something boring/ugly/plain *GTO, Charger*. The new GTO and Charger look like everything else out there. I want engine options *LS7 please* But the most important thing is that they are true to the spirit of the old cars and that I get a Firebird as well. Why even consider only bringing back the Camaro? It is ludicrous and extremely insulting to all of us Firebird fans. Thank you for building these great cars in the past and please bring them back!
That news is the most pathetic thing I have heard from GM since the started making FWD Impalas. First and foremost; stop slapping the SS badge on everything. An SS suv. An SS FWD anything. Those are just bad jokes. If you want something to slap an SS on, build a turbo Cobalt, (without that wing on the back), that can put an SRT-4 in its place. And please do not follow Fords styling cues. I dont want to see slab-sided bug-eyed and bulbous GM vehicles. The HHR, and that Cheyenne concept where some of the ugliest things I have ever seen.
I know youve seen those computer renderings of what a modern 1969 Camaro would look like. Check out PHRs website Bob. If you build a retro car like that, keep it simple and small enough that it doesnt come out as bloated as an 05 Mustang. And give us some options! I cant afford leather seats AND a V8. Let people build what they want in a car. Be the company that builds the working mans muscle car.
You folks loyalty to GM is commendable, but, man, the cars stink. I can’t believe someone praised the GTO’s styling. I googled it to see if I missed something. Nope, the same generic GM look. Just check Consumer Reports Frequency of Repair Histories. Hondas and Toyotas are universally magnificent, Fords are a mixed bag, and the GMs are near-universally crappy. A GM exec is infamous for answering that the solution for an affordable GM of a certain type is a used one. Check out a used Supra or Jaguar XKS before buying a new GM blandmobile.
Just want the Camero back, The Mustang Killer. Yeah, and another thing, your sales would be much higher…
Bob,
You need to build a GMC version of the SSR in a Hard Top with a Conv. option. Redesign the front with the GMC version and drop the price with the hard top to around $30,000 and you’ll sell these trucks like hot cakes.
Bob,
Here is a sure winner: Please make a RWD “Sport Wagon” similar size to the BMW 525 Wagon with a small block V8. I know GM can do it. Around $30,000 – you will sell plenty.
You are missing the boat. Bring the Camaro back. Why are you just sitting there and letting
Ford have this piece of the market? GM was going to kill off the Camaro and
Firebird in 72 when the Norwood Ohio plant that produced Camaros and Firebirds went on strike. New 5 mph bumper standards were to take effect in 73 so GM thought this would be a good time just to end it all instead of investing money to come up with a solution to meet these new standards. During the strike many people waited for their beloved Camaros and Firebirds to once again rumble off of transporters onto dealer’s lots. These icons were produced for another 30 years after the strike ended. Not too bad for two cars that might have met their death in 73. We waited over 30 years ago for that strike to end. And guess what? We are waiting now! Why am I so passionate about this car? I am one of those people that waited for that strike to end and ordered the only new car that I have ever had. A 74 Camaro that I still have and cherish to this day with only 13,700 miles on it. The new Camaro must be rwd and retro. Like a 69? The Z28 must of course be powered by a small block V8 to appeal to performance enthusiasts such as myself. But the car still should still be appealing even if a V6 was ordered for those that were not as concerned about performance but that just love the lines of the car. Start off with a base car and let people option it out to their liking. Remember Ford did it first with the Mustang. But Chevrolet did it better with the Camaro. We are not talking here about bringing back the Vega. We are talking about bringing back an American icon, the Camaro. You showed Ford how to do it in 67. Show them how to do it once again.
What’s with all these RWD cars coming out anyway? Are we going backwards? I have had plenty of RWD cars, including GM’s biggest and best and BMW 7 series. I love the way GM large sedans with FWD like the current DTS and Pontiac Bonneville drive much better. Something about the solid feel of the steering when in a large car with FWD that cannot be duplicated with RWD. I live in Michigan and winters are rough, I will never buy a RWD car regardless of traction control. BTW I also will not buy any car unless it is E85 or EV. So for now this narrows my options to just buying the 2006 Impala with E85 capable. I don’t want my money going to the middle east, I will only use E85 85% ethanol.
Bob,
With the hit of the V series Cadillac, is there any plan to assemble some affordable Chevrolets using the same platforms of say the CTS-V and the STS-V? A affordable Rear wheel drive with plenty of power is what we need to see come out!
Also, I am always hearing positive things about the fabled F Car, but I see the Mustang on the road with no competition. The F Car needs to be reborn, with some edge while bringing back it’s heritage.
Also I hear the SSR is on the chopping block, can you save the chassis and powerplant to use into an F Car design and maybe take the F car into a crossover platform as well.
I also see one cool nomad using the SSR as it’s main structure and adding a panel back enclosure. You could take the auto top design from the XUV Envoy and marry it into this Nomad and also include Deac to the powerplant with your 6 speed auto. Thanks for your time, Jim
Bob,
I recently took a look at the new Chevy Corvette Z06 and would have to say job well done. I wanted to say that I’ve been thinking about the SSR and it’s potential as a crossover into an SUV to compete with the Nissan Morano and others in that segment. You have the chassis and powerplant to wrap into some new sheet metal and make one serious rocket and fill a much needed segment. I saw what you did with the Solstice and the Sky and really see you doing it again with the SSR platform.
Thanks for your time,
Jim
I hope this can reach Bob Lutz
there’s lot’s of talk on the next Camaro/GTO and possable Firebird and rather when GM should bring them back or not. I just have a awnser for that or im possably just saying what hopefuly what GM is doing.
Just have the Camaro/F.bird comeback with v-6 power as base motor but have a turbo 3.6 v-6 option for the Firebird then have the 4.8, 5.3 and possably a 6.0 v-8 as optional motors
The GTO can come as a v-8 only sport coupe that’s larger then theCamaro/F.bird with 5-real passenger room with a 4-door counterpart and avalible 7.0 v-8 power, have the Monte Carlo as it’s corprate twin but with an base v-6.
Why larger coupes along with the possable Camaro and Firebird?. Because as exciting as the Camaro concept is;
A. Im 6′3 260+lb and im not going to cram myslef in a (smaller then a current Monte-Carlo) coupe everyday.
B. if you’re going to make sedans you minus-well have a direct 2-door version to suport it. BMW, Benz and Honda dose it, GM can too.
BTW a station wagon to take on the Dodge Magnum would be nice also it’s due time that Saturn can use a RWD/V-8 car too.
Whats this ? the Camaro may come back, but no Firebird ? Why does it always have to be about Ford & Chevy? Mr Lutz , maybe you’re forgetting these facts:(1) The reason the GTO was discontinued in the first place was , in part,because the FIREBIRD was stealing sales from it.The PUBLIC made the choice between these two cars a long time ago, and the GTO LOST!!(2) Also, the GTO was only in production 11 model years (’64 to ‘74 ) The FIREBIRD for 35 ! Pontiac should go with the proven winner!the current GTO is not selling today ! Sounds like 1974 all over again!(4) Mr Lutz : are you reading the comments in this column ? I mean really reading them ? everyone wants the FIREBIRD back. Very few comments about the GTO.the Firebird is still very much in the hearts and minds of the public,as it only went out of production a few years ago. there are still many of them on the streets & highways of America- its the GTO thats outlived its appeal and usefulness. Pontiac waited too long to bring it back,and now , no one wants it, it’s low sales prove that.Do you really think a restyle is going to matter? It’s understyled,and overpriced. Trust me, the Camaro will come back, because it’s a Chevy.but Pontiac fans want the Firebird back too !As far as I’m concerned , the “F” in F body stands for FIREBIRD !!
NO, F does not stand for Firebird..
The F platform, or F-body, was General Motors’ small rear-wheel drive automobile platform from 1967 until 2002. It was based partially on the GM X platform, which was used for compact applications instead of the sporting intent of the F-Body. The only two vehicles to have been built using the F-Body platform are the Chevrolet Camaro and the Pontiac Firebird. The fourth character in the Vehicle Identification Number for an F-body car is “F”.
Hey Dan- I KNOW what the “F” body is – it was just my way of saying that of the two cars, I prefer the FIREBIRD.-You see,as I said in my previous comment, “It’s not just all about Ford and Chevy”.
Bob,
Keep it simple! Build cars with bold styling that people want to buy. You make some of the best drivetrains in the world, however, you don’t have the skins to match. Also, do a better job of finsihing your interiors(take a lesson from Chrysler on this). GM interiors always seem to go unfinished. Again, build cars that people get excited about, it’s that simple!
I figure, by the time General Motors comes out with some good vehicles, Ford or a foreign auto maker will have already bought the company.
I currently own a brand new GTO. Built in Australia, the GTO is technically a foreign car. I have had nothing but strange, unresolved problems from this vehicle from day one. Everyday, I ask myself why I didn’t buy a Ford Mustang or maybe some foreign rice burner.
I just hope that GM and its millionarie executives are heeding the words from the American people who WANT!!! to BUY GM’s products and automoblies are saying and basically pleading for from the company to produce. General Motors use to set the world standards in automotive everything, please show some pride, get rid of the slow and poor decision making personnal within the comapany if you have to, slow down the import sales flooding our market-place with superior product offerings once again, it may not be easy to do but if any company has the capability of overcoming such an obstacle it is GM. Sincerely 55 years loyal GM family and counting.
Hello GM time to put out the Cadillac Sixteen, game over GM is king!
I was hoping to replace my ‘98 Volvo V70T5 (bought new) with a Pontiac version of the Zeta Wagon. Oh well, back to Volvo.