And Another Thing …
By Bob Lutz
GM Vice Chairman
Before the week draws to a close, I just wanted to add a follow-up to my previous post, an update of the Pontiac G6’s sales performance. I’m amazed at the amount of discussion the vehicle has generated – both good and bad. And I’m pleased about all of it – more the good than the bad, of course.
But I am glad it’s a lightning rod for discussion. And so I will just leave you with a few more facts about the G6. Offered without commentary for your own edification and discussion:
- FACT: Estimated January through end-April (at current rate of sales), the available version of the G6 will be outselling the same version of its Grand Am predecessor by more than 70 percent. That’s comparing V6 sedan to V6 sedan. (This updates the previous post’s 57 percent, which was through March.)
- FACT: Our annualized selling rate for G6 is now about 100,000 a year, and that’s before we even get to the four-cylinder engine, the coupe, the 3.9-liter high-output V6, or the hardtop convertible still to come.
- FACT: G6 buyers continue to be, on average, three years younger than the segment average for midsize sedans.
- FACT: We are currently selling 75 percent fewer vehicles to rental fleets.
I could go on, but that’s enough for now. I think these facts speak for themselves and provide a fair indication of our level of satisfaction with this vehicle’s performance in the marketplace. Have a great weekend.
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Good that sales appear up. Key is avaiable models that need to appear faster than they are. Not just the coupe and the retractable as I can understand making sure the top works flawlessly and without leaks, but the HiPo versions that will excite the rest of the buying public.
It will be confusing someday if you add G4 to lineup and offer a V6 in it and a 4 in the G6.
Is the loss of rental fleet sales of the equivalent of GrandAm or GM overall? How does not having as many Pontiacs in rental affect plan to have BMW drivers step out of a rental and comment that they didn’t realize Pontiac was such world class?(an approximation of your words)
Mr. Lutz,
Good job for yourself and GM. The numbers are looking good. I hope to see similar figures for all your other models (Lucerne, LaCrosse, Cobalt). I hope GM can come out of this jam while keeping or improving qaulity even more than it has thus far, and that the competition’s goal continues to be the same, “Beat GM.” I think this type of continuous pressure from your competitors keeps GM on the edge, to produce better products.
Congratulations and keep up the good work.
Bob,
Spend a few more bucks telling these types of stories…Imagine if you actually advertised Pontiac to the same level that Nissan does? Pontiac might be on TV 1/4 the amount that Nissan is. Advertising works…just ask George Bush. That’s how he got re-elected. Take on the competition. Don’t be afraid – - if you’re so confident, go after Nissan. Spend some dough to put G6 on TV to the same level Nissan does for it’s new products.
why dont you talk about the “great” mileage on the 3.9?
18/24? A v8 gets better mileage!
Bob,
That is great news. The G6 is so far the only domestic that has the appearance and the performance to take on the imports. Now with the GTP model out, things will go much better. The sales will prove the G6 is well worth the money. In truth, it’s a great value overall.
When I was looking for a new car back in March, as I was walking to take a look at the ‘05 GTO a G6 caught my eye. Thinking what I really wanted to do with my money and not blowing it all right away, I looked at the G6. I think it’s a great design. I really like the features of the G6. The only regret is the panaramic roof does make for less headroom for us 6′ and over guys (but then I’m usually the driver).
GoatFink
Very good news. Problem is that in South Florida one seldom ever sees ANY effective Pontiac advertising. With such a great looking car, you’d probably sell more if only the car got into any limelight. The streets are filled with BMW,Nissan,Honda and that crowd.
Keep charging.
Good News For Pontiac
Just think how good the numbers would have been if the G6 had been a better car! As in, either more competitive with Camry/Accord, or such a price value (like the Suzuki Verona) that, combined with brand recognition, the G6…
Mr Lutz:
The press has often commented that GM vehicles are “dead” in the marketplace. They are generally square, bland, ugly, and un-inspiring.
While I read hopes that your presence at GM would result in more attactrive designs, style and improved “roll-home”, I’ve yet to see it. the G6 certainly fits the mold as ugly and bland’ makes the old Grand Am look good!
GTO? Hey that’s one hot looking Cavalier from down under. this years hood scoops? Makes it look like an outdated 80’s Trans Am.
Hey those new min- vans? Butt ugly! Right up there with the old dust-busters.
If GM is going to survive and
prosper it better come up with a better plan than selling Buciks to the over 65 set.
Look at Ford’s new Mustang and DC’s retro take on ugly early 60’s Chrysler products:
The 300.
Can’t you guys come up with anything?
Can’t you do any better?
Bob:
Let me say that I have a lot of respect for you, and I think you are doing a fine job. There are alot of people who care about GM and its products, both inside and outside of the company.
We could use a few “car nuts” reading the internet discussion forums, and advising the marketing and product planning folks. The people who take the time and write their opinions on the discussion forums are real customers. Their views are customer wishes. And I am not talking about GM bashers, but those who want to buy American and are frustrated. I think what you get from these forums are as good as any survey or clicnic the marketing folks could run.
I love the driving feel of the epsilons. My wife drives a Malibu and she loves it (more so from the back than the front!), and belive me she is tough one to make happy. Her next car is CTS she says…
It is easy to be Monday morning quarterback and point out all that went wrong in the execution and delivery. However, we learn and move on. On the G6, no doubt that it is a very good vehicle. The Key here seems to be launching of the G6 4 door, coupe and the convertible in a span of 2 1/2 years. The coupe buyers I have read from, on the discussion forums, are left out until later this summer.
One thing I do not understand, that is the Malibu SS line, or Trailblazer SS. Somehow “Malibu” and “SS” do not click. Malibu with better engine or suspension ,as options, is ok. But the SS logo and image goes well with a with a sporty models like Monte Carlo.
Thats great, I finally saw one in a parking lot and it looked good. I am starting to see the new malibu’s finally. I had seen the previous model all over the place. Impala’s are very popular around here and I see 2-3 Caddy CTS’s every day which is impressive for a luxury car.
Here’s the deal-the G6 is a lousy name. What the heck is it supposed to mean anyway? Go back to Grand Am. Call it the Grand Am G6 if you want, but G6 is meaningless and cold.
Get the fugly steering wheel out of the sedan and use the one in the coupe instead. Same goes for the Malibu.
10 year warranty
10 year warranty
10 year warranty
If you guys don’t do this you need your heads examined.
So why do you have to give $3600 worth of incentives on each G6?
Mr. Lutz:
Glad to hear that the sales of these vehicles are improving. As much as I’m impressed with the serious attention to quality and driving enthusiasm of late, I’m still not convinced that you are paying attention to the final customer. I think you listen more to the dealer network for product decisions. Why else would you produce 5 different minivans based on the same platform? Do you think the customer really wants a Pontiac van or Saab SUV? Or is it the dealers who are actually clamoring for these things, instead of the final consumer? Come on, now. If you really want to create killer products, you are going to have to pay less attention to dealer feedback and more attention to the customer. Don’t forget that an entire generation of car buyers grew up thinking that Hondas and Toyotas were better, and during those decades, GM was content to listen to the praise of fat-cat dealers and stockholders, instead of the mom-and-pop consumer (who are finally abandoning you). I’m sorry that you have to deal with the reprecussions of an entire generation of short-sighted decision-making. But to save the company, you are going to have to stop caring about the dealers, and really, really listen hard to the people who actually drive your cars.
Lefty Lutz
In keeping with this blog’s theme of the week, I was interested to read Bob Lutz’s latest.
Dear Mr.Lutz
I thinhk the best way to tnhink now,is GM strikes again,the worst moments are starting to leave GM.
Can i make a title of master based in GM case?
Well Bob, I’ve been pleased with your last few posts because you didn’t just sugarcoat everything.
As for the G6, It’s a good car, really it is, but it would have been MUCH better as a Saturn – as a replacement for the terrible L300. Pontiac already has enough sedans as it is. Fix the ones you already have – Grand Prix, Grand Am, Bonneville.
And trim the Pontiac line too – get rid of the Sunfire, Aztek, Montana, and the Vibe. There is NO REASON that GM’s “excitement” division should have a minivan. It just competes with all of the other GM minivans – like the Saturn Relay, Chevy Uplander, etc.
What would really propel Pontiac to the top (In my opinion, of course) is if you just made sports coupes (with the exception of making a Sedan Bonneville, so that you could have one sedan at least).
Pontiac really needs to be (and could be) the sports car division of GM if you really put forth some effort into it (like you did for the whole Cadillac revamp)
I rented a brand new G6 from National about a month ago. I give the car a mixed review. A good compromise between handling and ride has been achieved. On the other hand the quality was disappointing. The car had an irritating noise coming from the roof which never stopped. Then when I put the visor down, a piece detached itself and feel down. It is a real shame that American cars simply cannot get it right (except perhaps for the new Z06.
How are the G6 sales in comparison to the competition, though? Compare V6 sedan sales between G6 and Accord, G6 and Camry, G6 and Mazda6…THAT’S the comparison that’s needed. Frankly, I would be extremely worried if the G6 weren’t selling better than the Grand Am. Improving upon the Grand Am wasn’t a very difficult thing to do…G6 having a 70% sales improvement over the Grand Am would be like jumping 70% higher than the bar on a high jump contest…with the bar being a foot off the ground.
Dear Mr. Lutz,
Hey you should give a new G6 and one of the Cobalt’s over to the people at Autoextremist.com and let them do a test drive and review. They have a new test drive section but only Subaru thus far has given them testers. The Subaru Legacy GT Wagon was there first test. The G6 and Cobalt are good cars, if you harshest critcs will give them a nod then you are gonna get some notice.
A few more things:
- Making great cars is a company culture matter. It cannot be achieved by the efforts of a single executive. Bob needs to spread the culture of making great cars throughout GM from design, engineering and down to production levels. He should create hundreds of ambassadors throughout GM to get the message of building great cars to each employee.
- When people buy a car, they test drive competing models. They make decisions on the first few minutes of driving. It is very important for GM engineers to test drive other competing cars and compare them with GM models like G6 and experience what customers actually experience at atest drive. Then they should ask themselves the question, which car I would buy if I was an impartial customer. This exercise can be very motivating for engineers to improve GM cars.
- Designing a successful car these days is like creating a masterpiece by an artist. Just look at the instrument panel of some of recent cars from GM and other manufacturers (specifically, Honda). They are really pieces of industrial art in using various materials and electronics. To be successful in creating a masterpiece, the designers should appreciate art from childhood. They should go to art museums, study architecture, read art magazines of any type, and get art into their blood (see for instance how Steve Job re-invented Apple).
- That is all for now.
Bob,
Thanks for giving us your side of the story and setting the record straight – I think the G6 is more desirable than the Asian competition and the recent negative press really surprised me. I think the TV ads I’ve seen recently will help. How about a GXP variant if the G6 sells well? The GXP at the SEMA autoshow would look great in my driveway.
Could you explain the drop in rental car fleet sales?
Is that just for the G6 or for all GM cars?
Is it because of a drop in the rental car business or is it that your traditional sales sources have switched to a different manufacturer?
Ordinarily, what does GM look for rental car sales and rentals to tell you about customer satisfaction?
Thank you.
Bob,
Good news. However, the replies are on the money regarding the steering wheels in the G6 and Malibu. Cheap and ugly just don’t cut it. Put the “SS” wheels in the cars. Those are nice and have a good feel to them. If GM can’t get them right, use a Subaru wheel or the after market steering wheels the Mazda uses. Also, no more cheap crummy uncomfortable seats. I don’t know how many times GM has to be told this. It seems easy enough to understand. Please Bob, good seats if nothing else!!!!!
Now combine the G6 with the Solstice (small midsize sedan, with rear wheel drive) and imagine how hot Pontiac would be then.
If you want Pontiac to be the low cost BMW alternative, then give us a 3-series like vehicle.
I think you could make the Canyon/Colorado couple a big hit if you offered more powertrain options. The main gripe I have seen in reviews is the lack of power and torque from the 5-cylinder. When I test drove one, it did seem to lack low-end “grunt”. Why not offer the I6 currently in the Trailblazer / Envoy? It would overpower every other compact pickup easily and give you a vehicle that’s class-leading. I recall seeing a concept Colorado with a V8 engine as well. Even with the current-gen 5.3 V8, 300 horsepower completely trumps anything else on the market, especially if it had DoD.
You could even offer the 4, 5, and 6 cylinder engines on the Colorado and only the 5, 6, and 8 cylinder engines on the Canyon, thus offering some differentiation between brands and establishing GMC as a slightly more premium brand then Chevy.
Mr. Lutz – I too was very dissapointed to see the EPA on the 3900 powered G6. Worse mileage than the 300C, didn’t see that one coming.
DOD – more engineering by press release I guess…
Why not set the rear axle ratio at 3.29 and let the auto be just a little faster than the GT, then gear the 6 speed manual more agressively as a stop gap until the 6 speed auto hits the G6 in 2009? (I’m using the DOD delay as an estimate) Seriosuly though, would much rather have the auto get 27-28 freeway and be only marginally faster, while the manual can be the speed leader.
Based on this mileage – I’m wondering if VVT on an OHV engine stands for gas guzzler. Really embarassing Mr. Lutz. 24? Really embarrasing.
BTW- I plan to buy a convertible G6, so this is coming from a “fan.” The auto critics are going to tear you up over this mileage estimate. There are SUVs that get better mileage!
mr lutz
i am one of the over 65 that likes pont. in 60 i had a ventura with 3 carbs and stick shift i wish i still had it but it was traded for an ah 3000 mk11 any way i have a bonnevile 92 it has been the most dependable car i have ever owned an i have owned a lot of cars.
any way my wife an i are waiting for the new small convertable to come out keep up the good work and yes i like detroit iron
jack l evans
History repeats itself. And like in the past the winner of this race will come down to design. And if it does, which it will, GM should win again but it will have to find its roots.
Hyundai can make a great car now but they can not make a Velite or a Charger in a hundred years. You have to break out the true quality of your history and there is the value.
It is like searching for diamonds through the coals but there is great wealth in your history and when you tap into it, it will bring a wealth of great product.
Cadillac’s art & science is absolute magic and even when its taps into the styling cues of Cadillacs past it only adds to its aura and mystique.
When are you going to launch the new face of Buick? Now I know you like the Lucern and I do too. But hay, I liked the Aurora too. It’s like this. I know she has a great personality once you get to know her but is she prom queen? Is it enouph to break the infatuation the public has with the imports? NO.
As we are all on these posts and in car magazines just car guys, I like you Bob look at every vehicle from a common consumer perspective who is interested in a car only when buying. And when I think a car is a hit I have a gut feeling. The HHR as you said is in your gut and it is also in mine. The Lucern will be successful but its not in my gut. Velite is.
GM has made the effort to put a car guy as high as #2 in the company and that should tell us something. As quality and costs converge for the automakers design will win.
That’s your territory Bob, they are playing on your terf in a game you have mastered. Now go out and win.
Here is my report card.
Chevrolet HHR A+
The utility of a minivan, the value of a Cobalt and the looks to best the PT Cruiser. This should be around as long as the Corvette.
Hummer H3 A
I am drooling now get the H3T out without delay.
Solstice A+
Where can I buy it!!!
Cadillac BTS A
Whatever, just trust your bloggers and bring it to the states.
Buick Lucern C
Go find some heritage or the Velite.
Chevy S3X A
Bring it to the states.
Chevy Aveo (Seoul) B-
Not as much character as a Mini or Corsa. Same project you handed in last year.
Pontiac G6 B-
You handed in the same project you did last year with the Grand Prix.
Saturn Aura and Sky A+
For both. Can you speed these up?
Cadillac DTS B+
You handed in the same project last year.
Cadillac ULS/Coupe A+
From what Motor Trend showed me.
Keep fighting Bob you are almost there. A couple of more A’s and the competition will be on the run.
I drive an Epsilon (Malibu) and think it is a great mix of style, performance, cost, and economy. 29 MPG ave. with 200 HP. I must not be much of an driving enthusiast because I’ve never noticed a problem with poor feedback from the steering wheel like I keep reading about from critics.
The G6 looks even nicer and I think it will do fine for GM, particularly when the full range of variants is available.
I know GM is not so keen on sales to rental fleets, but don’t forget, a rental car is an extended test drive for a potential customer. If you delight a rental customer with a great car, they will rave about it and provide the best form of advertising to others – Word of Mouth.
And please demand from your marketing folks that ads for cars have to highlight the car itself. Neither slogans, jingles, pretty scenery, gorgeous people, nor cute little skits make a good ad campaign. Highlight the car! (or truck)
G6 is a very nice car and I think the additional models will do very well – especially the coupe. I considered, drove and enjoyed this vehicle during my latest purchase expereince.
Unfortunately for the first time in my life I did not buy a GM product. My wife wanted AWD and this simply wasn’t available. (SUV’s were not a consideration – my wife wanted a car!) If AWD was available the G6 would have been a slam dunk. GM’s other AWD cars (Vibe, STS, SRX) were either too small or too expensive.
I’m very sad I had to go elsewhere to meet my product requirements! GM PLEASE create an affordable mid-sized AWD car!
Please consider adding to your list of “Auto Links” the Autoextremist.com. Peter DeLorenzo and his band of merry writers have not always been kind to GM, but they have also been rough on everyone, including the Kool-aid drinkers in the media bashing the American auto companies (esp. GM).
I like the G6 but it could be made more appealing. The center control stack of the interior needs some quality aluminum surround to brigthen it up. Take a look at the G35 for what I mean…or some of that piano laquer. Lets see it next year.
Mr. Lutz,
I’ve just read the disappointing news that the Solstice availablility will be delayed, meaning a fall or winter release. I appreciate the fact that the car won’t be released before quality problems are fixed, however I fail to see why such an important vehicle introduction cannot be accommodated by a first class, get-it-done workforce. Unfortunately, the media will have a field day with this ill-timed release.
And the media will be justified. I’m not in the car business so perhaps I can’t appreciate the difficulties you face in motivating your team; I do know that in my business we break our backs to meet deadlines. Surely this is not unsurmountable; GM is the largest in the world – apply your best resources to get this vehicle to market for the SUMMER solstice.
Best of luck.
I have a question, not a comment. I read somewhere that the coupe GTP will have a 6-speed stick available but the convertible will not. Is this true? If so. WHY??? I would never consider the coupe…I don’t like fastbacks. But I think the convertible is HOT. And I much prefer a stick to auto.
As a GM salesperson, i would like to comment on the G6.
Thank GOd, it’s about time they killed the Grand Am. The G6 is not a perfect car but it’s a big step forward. Everyone should appreciate that. Same goes for the Cobalt. When the best thing u can tell a customer about a cavalier is the huge rebates, its time to put it out to pasture. Thanks for the efforts GM , one of the largest workforces in America are counting on you.
G6 is a pretty good products. It is not a superior products when comparning it with Camry, Accord, but it is a hugh improvement over Grandam.
Hopefully, this “good enough” G6 is going to generate enough cash for GM so that we will see GM making an Accord beater in the next G6.
Things take time. When you are losing 1 billion a quarter, it will take more time.
Remember when there was no war or war effort, American vehicles were reliable and affordable, the music was great, the economy was strong, housing was cheap and interest rates were low, America would get excited about new products coming out and would make huge lines to see them or buy them, when the average American consumer could afford a brand new car with their minimal incomes, when gasoline was cheap and a gallon of milk did not exceed $2.99, when bottled water was only considered to be something the snobs would drink? Does anyone remember, because I can’t. It’s been so looooooong that it’s probably in the history books.
GM, considering how bad the fuel prices are, and how low the income and economy is, why don’t you boost the economy, which would probably help your health care costs make your vehicles affordable again. The Cobalt, the Canyons and Colorados, h**l, even the Aveos. LOWER THE STICKER PRICES MAN!!! The consumer is going elsehwere because for the price of the G6 or Cobalt, I can get a Honda, Hyundai or Toyota with better quality, better fuel economy, better reliability and durability for less. More quality, longevity and reliability for less money, now that’s an awesome concept. I wonder why GM hasn’t thought of that, may be I’ll patent it.
Come on, not all Americans make what Bob Lutz, Gary Cowger and Bill gates make. Bring down the prize on all your l4 and l5 vehicles and you will see a boom in sales, don’t offer $3 million cash back, lower the MSRP, offer a better warranty, lower the incentive amount and people will buy. Have you seen the number of Kias and Hyundais on the road. They’re not comparable to many American cars in toys and quality, but people buy them because the warranty speaks for itself.
So what if it’s 2 or 3 horses less powerful, if it breaks, they’ll fix it, with that 10 year warranty. Sure is limited, but if it breaks due to defect and not because I broke it, it’s covered. Good enough for me. Trouble free warranty. See, I just gave you the name. “THE GM TROUBLE FREE WARRANTY”, if you register it, trade mark it or patent it, call me, my cut will be a small percentage.
Trust me Mr. Lutz, push a better/longer warranty coverage, and the product sells itself withough giving the house away on incentives.
Best regards,
Mo
“GTO? Hey that’s one hot looking Cavalier from down under. this years hood scoops? Makes it look like an outdated 80’s Trans Am.”
My outdated 80’s Trans Am looking 2005 GTO will put out 400 horsepower and 400 torque. I don’t need looks to do all the talking. I’d rather have a sleeper than some car everybody is going to rip off the parts for.
BTW the Mustang GT ‘05 has an “outdated” 1960s looking dash and body style. LOL
The new Pontiacs are looking great. Especially the G6. I firmly believe most of those who are doing the bashing are the ones who are the most misinformed and misled.
Get off the couch and get to a Pontiac dealer and take a look at these cars. Compare it to Chrysler and Ford and you’ll understand Pontiac’s story rather than listening to the ridiculous propaganda and idiotic statements made by misinformed journalists.
GoatFink
riding a 2005 GTO “Thunder from down Under”. Hee hee eat my rocks!
Mr. Lutz,
I understand that the rental car stigma isn’t necessarily a desirable trait for a vehicle, but I have to agree with a previous post that it could be used as an excellent marketing tool. The key is that the rental vehicles have to be equipped well enough to be impressive. If even the base model vehicles are pleasing to drive, then that shouldn’t be a problem.
I’ve been in some horrendous GM rental vehicles before. One Oldsmobile Alero’s dash upholstery was peeling up after only 5,000 miles and a Buick LeSabre rental “upgrade” had the interior of a taxi cab that I didn’t believe GM would actually build. If, however, people who normally drive the competition could get into a new G6 or LaCrosse and actually experience a well-designed and properly assembled GM vehicle for a few days, it could do wonders for GM’s public perception.
I’m a car guy, so when I have to drive a rental car, I try to get something that I’m interested in. It’s the best way to get an accurate test drive where you can actually put miles on under various conditions. Maybe you’d have to use some of GM’s marketing budget to give rental car companies some higher content vehicles at no extra charge to them, but you’d make a positive impression on a lot of potential customers.
This is something I’ve been meaning to say for a long time. Now it seems that there’s some chance that someone who matters might actually hear it. So, here goes.
I’m not a gearhead. I’m not a car enthusiast. I need a car to get me and my family and my stuff from point A to point B with a minimum of hassle. That may be unusual on this website, but I don’t think it’s unusual in America.
The first car I ever bought new was a 1986 Honda Accord hatchback. I’d bought a ten-year-old Volvo fresh out of college, and I got tired of fixing it every month. I asked everyone at work what kind of car they had and how often it broke. The folks who had Hondas said, “Hondas? Hondas don’t break.” I believed them. I bought one. That was 1986.
In the following eighteen years, that car let me down exactly once. Every other problem I had with it was my own fault (or the fault of the guy who rear-ended me). For more than a decade, I was too busy to give it proper maintenance (grad school, starting a company, starting a family). That car kept going anyway. What finally killed it, after eighteen years, was a combination of maintenance items I should have fixed five years earlier.
I bought my second car new last summer, after that old Accord finally died. Three guesses, what brand of car I bought.
Flip through the April (car) issue of Consumer Reports, Mr. Lutz. Find the pages that show the reliability records of all the cars they’ve tracked over the last decade. Look for the little red circles that show good reliability. You’ll notice that they’re mostly found under “Honda” and “Toyota”. Look for the little black dots that point out big problems. You’ll find them mostly under the brands of the cars you make.
When you can turn that situation around, Mr. Lutz, so that your cars have mostly red circles, then I’ll consider buying one. You’ve got time to do it. I should be looking for a new car in another seventeen years or so.
Bob,
The facts of your post reinforces how right you were in pulling your advertising from the LA Times. Keep yoru advertising out of that rag for at least a year to give the punishment teeth. Consider an even longer ban if need be to set an example to the larger media.
Now expand the circle of destruction to include at least two more media outlets who have misrepresented sales of the G6. Take the money you save and reinvest it in your product development budget. The result will be twofold. First, starved of money to fund yellow journalists the media won’t even have the staff to unfairly criticize. Second, the product can do an even better job of selling itself.
You will not remember it but we met very briefly at the NY Auto Show industry preview. I said you’re doing a great job to which you replied, “Well, we’re trying.” I’ll repeat what I said to you then, “No Bob. You are suceeding. There is a difference.”
Keep up the good work.
Consumer Reports will never, ever give an unqualified good review to an American car. They are drinking the import Kool-Aid by the gallon. “This car is hellishly expensive”, they say, “so therefore it must be good. It’s also not as powerful, so we’ll develop a performance metric by which power is not important.”
Also–I have seen bits fall off of cars of every make, model, and style. If I were to go by personal experience, and consign brands to the “poor quality” heap based on single instances, I would consider every car manufacturer to be bad.
I do have to agree with one of the themes that keeps appearing in these comments, which is that GM seems to be trying to have every division cover every customer. (I’ve mentioned this before, myself.) I would suggest that a customer looking for a minivan would be satisfied with any GM minivan; I can’t imagine someone wanting a minivan from Pontiac.
I mocked the idea before, but it may well be that GM needs to consolidate all of its divisions. The nameplates can be kept (and should be), but you would not have A Pontiac Dealer who is a separate and distinct entity from A Chevy Dealer or A Buick Dealer. If a customer came in and wanted to buy a minivan, the dealer could show them Chevy and Buick and GMC brochures. If they wanted a performance car, they could look at Pontiac or Chevy. Cadillac would still be separate, and you might as well keep the Escalade around (because if some meathead has enough money to buy a Cadillac SUV then you might as well sell it to them.)
I agree with a previous poster who mentioned that the G6 is a terrible name for a vehicle.
This is an attractive car and very affordable in my opinion.
However, at this point GM could make the best car in the history of the world, with all of the flashy marketing to go with it, and still fail to gain market share.
Its going to be a long term process. However if they are still not listening to the customer — they will get the same results.
I’m not sure if I saw an answer to this very good question as well. Why the incentives on the G6 if sales are going so well?
So, Steve:
Glad to hear you have had such reliable transportation over the years. However, I really do not see how you can assume GM builds unreliable vehicles based on one publication and some opinions. If you’ve never owned a GM vehicle, then you really can’t say for sure how reliable they are to you. Try reading some statistics from JD Power and Associates. They tend to be a little more realistic. As far as word of mouth goes, I’ll give you the names of some people who have had issues with their Hondas as well as the names of people who have had great success with their GM vehicles if you like!
I think it’s very disappointing that the G6 convertible version won’t come out until late fall. It should have been read to go for this spring. My wife would pick it over a Sebring but it’s not available now.
New converts should be introduced at the Superbowl (see Mustang) and have a full pipeline in April.
Markets Are Conversations . . . Is GM Listening?
Ouch. GM, are you listening to this from Michele Miller:
Mr. Lutz, one of the biggest problem, and not only with GM is when a new model is introduced and one that is “limited” production, dealers always want to add several thousand dollars mark up.
What happens is negative feeling and most walk away and buy something else. Case in point, SSR roadster, Corvettes, PT Cruiser, Miatas.
All of these were hard to come by, then after about a year dealers are overstocked and can’t get rid of them.
Interesting ,
The last comment on CR reliability survey is exactly the point. The red dots have always been for Toyotas and Hondas, not for the last 10 years, but for the last 25 years at least.
Those are the facts.
Now, here’s my point: this survey is not random and is addressed only at the subscribers. So, the question is:
If I am an actual CR subscriber, of course I read the april auto issue; so did the subscribers of the last 25 years. Now, that said, it is very unlikely that I would have bought something other than a foreign car, based on the ratings . Why on earth would I buy an american car when CR tells me the’re worse than average?
What I don’t understand is why customers buy American vehicles, being subscribers of CR, and then send their questionnaires back saying they had numerous problems with them.
In my view, those customers should cancel their subscriptions. …… Or maybe Customer Reports database needs to be looked at more closely by statistician experts.
Stratojet
My mother’s Chevy Celebrity is 17 years old. Its an awful car to drive and handles like a truck but it obviously has lasted a long time.
However, I have heard from many people that their Chevy’s started falling apart after 3 years. Right after the warranty ended.
That is simply unacceptable.
to Lisa:
I grew up with Chevies. My dad still won’t buy anything else. Every summer we’d pile into the Chevy wagon and drive a couple thousand miles to visit relatives. From toddler to college, I remember maybe fifteen summer trips. There was only one trip, one summer, that the car didn’t break somewhere along the way. I remember how astonished we were at the end of that particular trip, when we realized that nothing had gone wrong with the car.
In 1986, I looked hard at the Chevy Cavalier hatchback. It cost 20% less. It looked good, but it felt cheap and cheesy — hard plastic dash, fake woodgrain, clunky shifter linkage, etc. The Accord hatchback also looked good, and it didn’t feel as cheap. I decided that if it lasted 20% longer, I’d get my money’s worth. Boy, was I right.
Even here in California, where cars last forever, I haven’t seen that model of Cavalier driving around any time in this millenium. But I could show you five or six Accords like mine, still going strong, just in my not-so-large town. If I hadn’t killed mine through neglect, I might still be driving it.
When I was looking at the Cavalier, the Chevy salesman told me, “Well, yes, our cars had problems in the 70’s, but they’re a lot better now.” Maybe he was right; but history shows that the Accord was a lot better than the Cavalier. Which is why, when I hear the same “we’re a lot better now” talk today, I don’t pay much attention. Talk is cheap. Show me data.
And to DensityDuck, who complained about bias from Consumer Reports: That’s called “shooting the messenger”. It doesn’t change the message.
I’ll be glad to look at any comprehensive eight-year study of reliability and repair frequency, compiled by a source with no obvious bias. Consumer Reports has the only one I know of. Can you show me another?
I am going to get a little deep here so bear with me. I realize that buying a car is more than buying reliable transportation. It is says who we are, on a first glance basis, more than anything else we own. That being said, I think one of the biggest reasons GM (and Ford for that matter) is having trouble has very little to do with the quality of their cars. By any objective basis (and there are several); all of the car companies make excellent products. The problem that I see is that many people in this country make a political/cultural statement with their car purchase that is detrimental to this country. Their distaste of American culture, government, and dare I say traditionalist values, is reflected in their car purchase. The easiest way to express this cultural distaste is to not buy anything made by the quintessential American car company — GM. Quotes like “I don’t care how good the car is, I will never own a Buick” (Chevy, Pontiac, etc.) say it all. Lest you think I am crazy, a demographic study was done and results were illuminating. The more liberal you are politically, the more likely you are to buy a foreign car. The opposite is also true, the more conservative you are the more likely you are to buy GM (or Ford). So what you say? The problem is that money spent on foreign car largely benefit foreign countries not the United States. Toyotas assembled here do create some jobs and tax revenue, but the bulk of the money goes to the overseas company (Toyota et al.) and their home country. So while car manufacturing by domestics is declining in the U.S., foreign plants are taking their place. The huge difference is that the money generated is leaving the U.S. and going somewhere else. This can only reduce the standard of living in the U.S. Every economist knows this. That is why the trade deficit is highlighted each month. So if you don’t like the U.S. (even subconsciously) go ahead and buy that Toyota or Nissan (Almost 1/4 owned by the French Government) but don’t complain when your children or children’s children are economically worse off than you are now. Just realize there is much more to buying a new car than what is on the surface. I know that I will be criticized roundly, but sometimes the truth needs to be told.
Came someone explain why on new models like the G6 and Cobalt, both were offered first in sedans? The cobalt coupe will be a winner but at least one of these cars should have been coupe first. The cobalt coupes are quick sellers, if only dealers can get them!! One last thing, the G6 name is mediocre, drop it.
“Testing, testing, testing, one, two, three.”
Do you ever reply to any postings to this site?
Just checkin’.
Does anyone see the “other” posts? The ones that are harsh and true? Like most of mine.
gtjeff,
The fact is that while the coupes are flashier and get more attention, sedans sell more. When your starting up a new platform, you have alot of fixed overhead costs that have to be absorbed by the products being made. Thus the need to get the sedan out
Steve and Lisa,
We all justify our purchases differently. Some use Consumers Report, Car & Driver or JD Powers to justify their decisions. Others use past purchases, friend’s opinions, price or dealership relationships to make a decision. And, no matter how they got there, they need to be able to tell anyone who ask (and even if they don’t) why their decision is the best.
Personally, I don’t read the reports or listen to the so called critics. Although I don’t always agree with them, I do respect the opinions of others. In the end, I buy what I like based on my current needs. Sure, there is still some personal justification involved. But when I’m asked why I purchased the vehicle, I simply reply “I like it and it fits my needs.”
I do not have any loyalty to any manufacturer. However, I do believe in buying American. I will continue buying American as long as they make a vehicle I like and that fits my needs.
This is a response to Dan’s post.
I understand your take on why people are bias to foreign cars. I am a conservative, which means I am also fiscally conservative. I just can’t spend my hard earned money on domestic car which has a higher depreciation rate than foreign cars. On top of that “most” foreign cars have better quality and they look better inside and out. With the exception of Corvette and some high price Caddy which is out of my price range.
Meanwhile, I can still afford to buy anything else American. But for an automobile, it is too much money for me to buy American (depreication, maintainence…etc)
I’ve got an idea, how about American cars companies make superior cars and truck which look better, have better quality and have lower depreciation than foreign cars and trucks. Many of us can line up in front of Ford, GM and Chrysler dealerships’ doors to buy American automoblies again.
With that said, many newer American cars have improved tremendously. The day that I will buy big three’s product is getting closer.
Meanwhile, I will settle for Honda’s product which has superior design, quality and resale value. Many of them also happened to be built in the states. Knowing that my purchase still benefit American workers lessen my guilt a little.
Come on GM, you are on the right path. I can’t wait to test drive the Solstice and Sky. I am sure, these products are going to shut up most of the GM’s critics. I am looking forward to seeing that.
Responce to Thomas:
Please review any trade or techical guide. GM quality is already superior to “most” of the foreign manufacturers. Very common misconception nowadays.
I have driven quite a few GM cars, mostly when I had to rent on eon business. Unfortuantely, they all feel.drive.wallow the same way – i.e. BADLY. Add to that the unpleasant hard plastic/tinny finish and you lost me for good. I’ve driven Honda Accords for 12 years. My wife has a 6 yr old Toyota Sienna. I’d love to drive an American car but when you can catch their tail coats I’ll go back to a GM dealer – not a second before. I can’t remember the last time I heard about 200,000 Hondas being recalled for some bad engineering defect!
In response to comments above: Yes, we read every comment that comes into the blog and no we do not post everything. We do not censor negative comments, either. The policy is clearly stated on the “About GMblogs.com” page.
Never heard about Hondas being recalled? Last summer, six hundred forty THOUSAND Accords were recalled due to transmission problems.
Lots of people are trashing domestic cars because they “don’t hold their value”. Why would you expect that they would? A car is a piece of machinery intended to see heavy daily use for a period of several years. How can you seriously expect it to hold its value? Sure, if you buy an exceptionally fancy or unique car you might expect to sell it for close to the amount you bought it…but you also wouldn’t be driving that car for three hours a day, every day of the year. People here are talking about daily-driver sedans and compact cars, saying that they should “hold their value”. Get real! (Oh, and these cars should simultaneously hold their value and be less expensive. BUAHAAHAHAHAA)
Steve – you are still generalizing. If you don’t like American vehicles, you are in luck! You live in the U.S. and are able to choose something else. You don’t have to like what the U.S. automakers build and I don’t have to like what the Japanese automakers build. I’ve driven a few Toyotas myself (15 years ago or so)and felt like I was driving a motorized tuna can. My point being, it’s a matter of choice. You remember a wagon of long ago and did not like the Cavalier. Fine, it does not mean U.S. automakers don’t make great cars. They do. A lot of people think so!
Dan B – I think you hit the nail on the head!
Fred – I agree whole-heartedly.
Mr.Lutz, I’m glad to see the G6 is selling well. Althought I am concerned about the high out put V6 coming will just have such poor gas milage for the power it’s putting out. Maybe before the product is brough to the markert place, you could do some changes to the engine or switch it for a better overall performance one? I’m not trying to knock the G6, it’s just that 18/24 is not real impressive fuel milage figures. Prehaps, if you lightened the car’s body panels that would help improve milage? Or changed out certain items in the engine for other items to improve performance? I just fear with people who buy V6’s (gas milage being important to them usually) will walk away due to its not so great performance on this engine.
Good luck Mr.Lutz.
The G6 and Cobalt are examples of GM’s push to build good quality family cars. If I were forced to buy just GM products I could find a top rated contender in almost every product segment.
Sports Car – Chevy Corvette
Coupe – Pontiac GTO
Convertible – Chevy Corvette, Saab 9-3
Luxury Sedan – Cadillac STS
Large Sedan – Buick Park Ave.
Sports Sedan – Cadillac CTS-V
Family Sedan – Saab 9-5
Family Wagon – Saab 9-5
Midsize Sedan – Saab 9-3
Small Sedan – Pontiac G6
Compact Sedan – ??? Weak Point
Compact Coupe – Chevy Cobalt SS
Luxury SUV – Cadillac Escalade / SRX V8
Large Suv – Tahoe/Suburban/Denali
Midsize SUV ???? Weak Point
Small Suv – Equinox
Minivan – ??? Weak Point
Van – Astro / Safari
Large Pickup – Siverado
Midsize Pickup – Colorado
It’s disappointing that has GM focused so much on trucks and didn’t focus on minivans. That segment is a glaring weakpoint. Yes many families bought big SUVs’s but if GM had a credible minivan then it might have drawn customers.
Overall I agree, the sun will come up on these nice cars, and especially for GM if they are parked in your driveway.
Mr. Lutz, thank you for spending time on this blog. My number one suggestion for GM would be to install telescoping steering wheels in all cars and trucks and let them telescope substantially, like the 70’s Cadillacs and the new Chrysler 300C. Once the seats are adjusted for leg comfort on GM cars, Colorado and Canyon pickups, the steering wheel is too far away for driving comfort. Thank you for listening.
Hey Bob,
I like the G6, but have a quick question regarding the GTP. The Malibu SS gets new struts and springs, thicker sway bars, and also receives a strut tower brace. The G6 GTP meanwhile has the same suspension tuning as the G6 GT, and there is no mention of any strut tower brace. All it seems the G6 has to differentiate it from the GT is hydraulic steering and bigger wheels.
What gives? Does the G6 GTP get the same or better springs, struts, stabilizer bars and strut tower braces as the Malibu SS, or is Pontiac being shortchanged?
With Chevrolet sales exploding around the globe as it becomes a global brand it shows how much the world needs and wants a trusted make from a company thats existed since the automobile industry began. But Why Stop There. Can’t Pontiac and GMC find success in other markets.
If Holden has designs on rear wheel drive can’t they design and launch Pontiacs in Australia as well as America.
Why not sell GMC vehicles in Japan badged as Isuzu’s? Isuzu has already shown interest that it wants to be mainly a truck company. And GMC can also find success in places with low gas prices and open roads like the middle east and Russia.
Saturn represents Opel and Holden in America and as long as that relationship becomes stronger Saturn will truly become the import figheter. And Buick’s success in China should strengthen its position as an icon.
That leaves GMC and Pontiac that must find growth to survive, thrive and diversify outside North America. Both these brands should have a global sales goal of 1 million a piece by 2010 with significant opportunities for international growth in select markets.
All of GM brands should hit a million in sales or the penny pinching misers will salivate trying to add one of these brands to the graveyard with Oldsmobile.
I was inspired today when I read about BOEING and how it is just sweeping up orders for new planes from Airbus. Who would have believed this just 3 months ago? Its dreamliner is really taking off. Competition has made one lean, mean, super efficient plane making machine.
GM your next.
I am sick of these stinking Mustangs!! When will GM have an answer to shut the Ford guys up and shut em down?? When will we have a real Pontiac? When we will have some 1960s performance and style? I’m tired of waiting!
Thank God the sun comes up everyday. It means everyday is a new day and everyday you’re given the chance to change.
I was on a business trip and rented a car from Hertz. The car was a Kia Amanti. Mr. Lutz, here is your new day’s sunshine. The car starts at $26K and has a 10/100,000 warranty. The engineers at Kia payed great attention to detail. Amanti was embroidered into the trunk liner. Some guy at Costco came over to say what a nice car it was and that it reminded him somewhat of a Jaguar S Type.
The Kia wasn’t perfect. I would have to rate the engin in the Kia as poor. It’s a V6 with little power and acceleration. What it did have however, which I was amazed to see, was fabric appointments where GM uses plastic. The window sills in my Mercedes have fabric around them. The front windshield pillars also have fabric and are finished off really nice. My Buicks on the other hand have plastic and start at $25,190. That’s pretty close to $26K. So, just on the basis of appointments who did a better job? I’d have to give it to Kia. The leather was soft and luxurious too.
Really, how much do you save using plastic? Fabric has style. America used to be known for its stylish cars. How is it that people with lesser technology in say 1960 produced a stylish car and people in 2005 can’t? We’re now known for our mediocre cars. Granted there are some standouts in the American car lineup, but I really feel if you ran a huge poll covering many countries you’d find what I’m saying to be true.
The thing that worried me most about Mr. Lutz’s comments is that he seems too content with mediocre. If it can be done better do it, and do it now – why wait?
Can’t rememeber hearing of Honda/Toyota Recalls? Poor Safety Ratings? It is because the media does not focus, or even report on them. Unless you read a trade publication or go to NHSTA etc or own the model, you wouldn’t know.
They all jump over a Ford or GM recall, but hardly ever a whimper on the fires, or 500K+ recalls of a Honda or Toyota. Its a shame, and the leemings just blindly follow this information, or lack thereof.
Most media for the no longer has much worth. You have to do your own investigating just to check their stories or what they left out of it so you don’t also end up talking like an ignorant fool. And most outlets cover the same stupid stories and beat it to death(how many times do I need to see Michael Jackson leave the court room, hear how “dried out a dying woman is looking, or how bad GM is doing today) They hardly ever seem strong enough to pave thier own path and report evenly without sensationalizing….telling us “what we want to hear”, all hail the ratings and the almighty $$$$$
I’m not happy with where GM is in the scheme of things. But they are taking small steps. The media bias is just another hurdle, which approached properly, will make GM a stronger contender.
Bob,
Many of the comments here question the quality, reliability, and durability of GM vehicles. You have repeatedly made comments that talk to the vast improvements to GM’s recent vehicle offerings.
I say put your money where your mouth is… offer extended bumper to bumper warranties as standard across all GM vehicles. At a minimum you should offer 5 year, 60,000 mile warranties.
That shows you are willing to back your claims. Anything else is lip service…
One of the people posting here mentioned the quality of the Kia interiors. GM is not all plastic, take a look at the GTO. The pillars and cieling of the car have very nice sporty nylon fabric and not some cheap mouse fur, as seen in many other cars. The ability is there and GM does have it. The leather of the GTO is the best I have ever seen in a car for under 34K and it is very very supple.
In response to Clarence’s post.
The recent 2 millions vehicles recalled by GM does not support your claim though. I know GM had come a long way with respects to its quality. Much of the public perception or misconceptions come from decades of building filmsy interior and subpar quality vehicles. The media did not create these problems for GM. GM did it to itself. Now, GM marketing has to do a little better job communicating the new and improved GM quality to consumers. I have yet to see a TV commercial highlighting GM’s high JD power associates ranking…etc.
I agree with Tod’s posting. I sat in the CTS-V before, the sun visor look so cheap, I walked over to the Kia area, their car’s sun visors have better material than the CTS-V which is over $50k?!
I can’t believe it!
Mr. Lutz. I have been following the negative press about you, and want to make several comments. Gm. should lead and stop following Japan. Dump the Hummer, it’s an abomination. Sell Japan the technology you probably have for fuel efficiency. The little s10 I purchased in 1988 has one hundred seventy thousand miles on it, and has never burned a drop of oil. The beauty of it is it came with a six year warrany, bumper to bumper. The dealer also gave me a great deal too. We also read in the La. times how more than one thousand dollars per car goes into health care.That statement alone is making us think GM. again. Come on Bob, everybody is rooting for you, move into the future. John
I dont know how the G6 is doing in other markets but our dealer has sold 5 since they came out all at invoice
I have to agree that while GM has improved their products immensely these last few years, I’m still uncertain I will buy GM again.
What will tell me GM is “for real” is when it offers honest performance without showy frills (make huge wheels and the rest of that stuff an OPTION or at least as an alternate model (the other forum I’m on’s still smarting from “SS” loaded with “bling bling”).
As another poster suggested, consider offering a longer warranty. If you expect us to pay for it, then make it real “bumper to bumper” (not “extended coverage” with so many exclusions it’s virtually worthless).
And when you folks say you’re gonna make solid performance cars, or hybrids, or whatever, just build them, and customers will come.
to Fred T
I recently looked at a new GTO, not too impressed with the exterior styling but it’s not really ugly, just plain. the JCWhitney scoops look like a crummy afterthought, they can be deleted…but hummmm… 400 horses and a 6-speed tremek… might be fun when a rustang pulls up next to you at the light! I may have to take one for a test drive…they’re about the same price as a new rustang Gt too!
Mr. Lutz,
These comments you are reading here, if you yourself get to read them at all, are gold and offer a golden opportunity for GM. you are getting straight consumer and customer (no, they are not the same) feedback on your product, opinions on how to improve it and deep, heart felt feelings on your corporation.
On the same token, it is quite sad that GM vehicles are being compared to Kia, Hyundai and companies as such. The bottom line is this. Kias and Hyundais are selling, and selling well. Why, they are simply giving their customers what they want and need. You want an inexpensive, luxurious sedan with appointments? You got them. You want a reliable mid size, compact SUV and Sedan? You got it. You want a vehicle with a credible bumper to bumper and power train limited warranty that take away your fears of reliability, dealer network back up and expensive repairs in the long or short run? You got it. You want a vehicle that is competetive in the market in performance, QUALITY, style, features and price? You got it!!
Why is it that the largest auto manufacturer can’t do what Kia, Hyundai, VW, Honda, Subaru, Toyota, Suzuki and Nissan are doing? Forget Ford and D-Chrysler. remember when GM was compared to Ford, DChrysler, BMW and Mercedes? Now GM is compared to Kia and Hyundai, the new kids on the block, and GM owners are flocking to these car companies because they offer what you refuse to offer. Better QUALITY, better warranties, better price and value for the buck.
You can do it, you’ve been seeing that phrase alot on this blog. You can do it, the intriguin part is, why don’t you do it. How bad is a 5/60 warranty on the bumper to bumper, and a 10/100? It’s bad when you have to use it, and because the lack of qaulity on your GM cars, you use that warranty, therefore you loose alot of money in warranty dollars. However, Kia, Hyundai and the others, have longer warranty coverage on their product, but they don’t use that warranty as much.
If you offer the better warranty, you’ll improve sales, however, if you offer better and longer warranties, but don’t improve on QUALITY, the warranty alone will not be enough to keep a customer from going Kia or Hyundai.
To the ones that say GM offer this, why pay $35k or more to be asble to get mediacre leather, when I can pay $26 and even less, to get very good, high QUALITY leather?
Mr. Lutz, or whoever is reading this on your behalf. I hope you take all of these suggestions, criticism, both pos and neg, take notes, and check on these things. You have a great tool here, without spending millions on survey companies to mail and call consumers to get the same info you are being provided here.
Good luck, and remember, QUALITY matters.
Quality Matters
i am amazed at the constant comparisons of perceived quality between the various makes. especially being one of those rare people who’s owned or had lots of personal experince with a lot of the many competing products out there.
i’ve owned 2 hondas, one of which was actually a acura, 2 toyotas, 2 pontiacs both of 60s vintage one of which was 300,000+ miles old and NOT well maintained at all + my teenaged abuse, 2 chryslers, both post daimler, one utter crap; the other best car i ever owned period. not to mention the odd mercedes, simca, volkswagon, and my dad’s 77 toyota corona, 87 celebrity wagon and its mate at the time, an 84 citation hatch back + the car i could’nt kill, 1995 suzuki swift 1.8 and my favorite hwy racer, a black 92 hyundai sonata.
when it comes to “PERCEIVED QUALITY”, i must admit that domestic cars of the entry level type do usually fall behind the foreign competition quite a bit.
but when it comes to reliability i find with all cars it usually depend on the particular model and owner demographics. take for example a toyota camry, the average owner usually sees the car as a expencive investment, could care less about turning heads or high performance; maintains it as best he or she can, and did lots of research befor the purchase. the transmission in the car never shifts at red line, the engine never makes class leading hp, and no camry will ever have anything but tried and true run of the mill solid engineering throughout. a combination that cant help but secure a bullit proof reputation!
now look at the classic case of gm low quality, a 87 iroc camaro! rattled when new squeaks and rattles even mor with age, cheap plastic interior, sometimes leaky t-tops sometimes not, healthy performing v8. sokes tires and pushes you into the seat, stops decent, turns the same. average milage when sought after in the local classifieds? 150,000+ ON AVERAGE!! that’s with abuse and constantly changing hands and spotty maintenace. but you NEVER hear anyone short of a f-body enthusiast say they are great reliable cars.
but when you see a honda or toyota with that type of milage people fall all over themselves with how well made it must be! i know numerous people who have had major transmission problems with the mid to late 90s big acuras. one person in particular is on his 2nd trans in his 01 acura cl and still swears its a more reliable car than his 98 grand prix gtp. yet as far as he can recall the grand prix NEVER gave him a single problem in 100 thousand + miles of service till he wrecked it! “but i knew any moment the supercharger would go on me”, he’d always say.
I just drove an 6/04 built Grand Am V6 as a rental from Alamo for a week (~25,000 miles on the odo). I hope to God that G6 sales far surpass the Grand Am. I could not image anyone spending even $15,000 of their own money on the old car. The plastics were laughable, the nuclear fallout red lighting everywhere was awful, and the utlization of space and design was extremely poor. The best thing was a large trunk.
I drive an ‘02 Maxima, and I’ve yet to see anything new from GM in the under $30,000 category that I would say betters by 3 year old car in any category, be it performance, fit/finish, safety, resale, or reliability.
Nissan got rightly fragged over their Altima interior when it came out, and they addressed it within two years. Their company has the best profit in the industry. See the correlation?
I bought a 2005 Chevy Colorado pickup in December and absolutely LOVE it! Fun to drive, good looking, smooth riding. No wonder it is the best selling mid-size pickup this year. Would like to see a telescoping steering wheel on it but that’s the only improvement I can think of that it needs.
Watched Smallville on the WB channel wednesday nite, and noticed the placement of a sexy looking yellow Colorado pickup in the opening scene. Good idea!
Bob–having read most of your PR prepared announcements, let me ask you just one question: which of your new vehicles are best in class? I mean best in class not only the day they are introduced, but throughout their life cycle. I think most are barely competitive when introduced, and sadly, rental car material in the second through 10th year. A company the size of GM needs to shock the consumer (this time in a positive sense) with its offerings! You need to “lead the duck” when you aim, or you’ll never hit it!
My biggest question since really reading blogs like this one and autoblog – Why does it seem other countries get better offerings (style wise at least) than the “ever important” North America market? I mean the T2X concept looks like a Mazda3 fighter to me, the monaro looks better than the GTO as most of the holden line looks pretty good!! The new tigra looks good. Is this just a case or grass is always greener or why not bring more popular models here from other countries.
Above posts are correct when they say that even the hallowed Honda and Toyota have engineering problems with current vehicles. Search “Honda transmission complaints” and observe the many thousands of hits. Also “Disappointed Prius Owners”. There are a host of untold shortcomings with this vehicle.
Although GM gets much criticism for not offering 50 mpg hybrids yet, there is good reason to first improve fuel economy on the worst mileage vehicles before worrying about making the good ones get even better.
Almost no one knows that the CAFE number is calculated as an average in gallons per mile among the fleet, and then reciprocated into miles per gallon because that is the term Americans are familiar with. Sounds like it wouldn’t make a difference, but consider: 20mpg and 60mpg average to 30mpg using CAFE math. Heck, 20 and 100 only average to be 33.3! (A math geek might even point out that 20mpg and perpetual motion only average to 40mpg):-)
So to make significant gains in fleet fuel economy you need to bring the 20 up to 25 before trying to get the 35 up to 55. Hopefully that isn’t too confusing.
GM’s strategy is smart in the big picture and will do far more to lower the nation’s fuel consumption than will a smattering of tiny science project cars here and there. Why don’t you explain the math that I am posting here to your consumers to help them understand your strategy? I think it will strike a chord with many.
Consumer Report!! What a joke. I would not buy any product over $10 that recommended by Consumer Report. Data is not a sure prove. Data can be fake. Let not speak of survey, when they tested some audio system, they claimed that all CD players sound the same. WHAT A JOKE!! Even my wife (not an audiophiles) can hear the sound differences among my CD players. First of all they don’t have ears. Second of all, they think that a scope will tell show you everything. They are dead wrong.
Pontiac’s fortunes are looking up…but something’s already lost in traslation in the early marketing of Solstice. Pontiac has perhaps its hottest product in decades, but from a buyer’s end, it’s been nothing but frustration. Being active duty military, I missed out on the feeding frenzy induced by The Apprentice marketing idea. Nevertheless, I’m trying to lock down a deal with dealerships in my home state via phone, fax and e-mail–but I’m not getting the same story from any of the dealerships. Some say they can take my pre-order and deposit–but I cannot lock in a price or approximate delivery date. To get my place in line, I have to put down a deposit–for a price to be negotiated later. Is this practice authorized by GM?
I’m really liking the looks of the G6. Enough that I’m looking at it to replace my Lincoln LS v8 when I finally get tired of it. If you can give me that kind of neck snapping acceleration, I may be in. American quality has gotten good enough now that Chevy and the folks at Ford have driven my wife and I out of boring Japanese cars.
My wife has a Trailblazer and loves it. (It replaced a Land Rover too!).
I haven’t been a GM fan for a while but you guys are starting to get there. We’re very happy with the Trailblazer’s quality and it’s been a great SUV. Additionally, my dad’s Yukon XL is at 100k miles with only one hiccup.
Keep up the good work guys. It’s nice to see some fun in a car. Short of maybe the new Acura’s, I haven’t much fun in Japanese cars for a while.
Regardless of the recalls, it is not my claim that GM is better. As others have mentioned on this blog check out any trade publication. That is what they are saying. It is curious why the media doesn’t seem to throw up arms as much when it is a Toyota or Honda recall. Wonder why that is? Liberal bias media perhaps?
Mr. Lutz:
Its time to drop the “SS” name from the product portfolio. It is a reminder of the long string of embarassing GM “performance” cars of the 1980s and 1990s. Drop it for something new.
I guess, once, a long time ago, in the 1960s perhaps, there were a couple of really cool cars that had the SS designation.
But that was a long time ago, and since then, the SS name has been diluted to the point of irrelevance. Or worse.
Incidentally, I like the G6 name. It signifies a new beginning. Unfortunately, it sounds so similar to my computers (Apple G4 and G5) that I get confused sometimes. Oh well.
Seeing as my last post, of which I attempted to keep short, informed, and civil, was blocked, I’ll keep this short and sweet.
Kill the HHR. Bring us the Kappa Nomad. It’s unique, and plus, it’s Kappa based. With the delaying of the Solstice launch, plus the later introduction of another vehicle off the same platform, in the same market (how many two-seat roadsters can one sell? Not a huge market, really….), you’re choking back Kappa’s chance at becoming a moneymaker for GM.
What’s the plan for Buick? Century, Regal and Park Avenue sales are wayyyyyyy down.. Maybe i missed something about them being discontinued?… I’m not a fan of Buick but i know there are plenty of persons who are…
I wish I could be more enthusiastic about the G6, but, for my money, I would rather have a Honda Accord for a daily drive. The G6 looks pretty good but still needs a refined powerplant and an interior up to Volkswagen or Honda standards. I wish Mr. Lutz luck as he pushes the corporate culture of GM into the 21st century. His is a tough job.
Anyone who campares the G6 to an Accord has obviously never sat in an Accord. The materials, fit/finish/ panel gaps. etc are noticeably better in the Honda.
If GM wants my business, it can only do so with superior product. Not “nearly-as-good”, but clearly better.
I hate that American cars are seen as junk. I would like to buy an American car. But I will not waste my money on an inferior quality car to bail out bad companies.
Mnay others have covered the issues here better than I can. But it always comes back to product.
Instead of world class cars, GM (and Ford) have poured money into SUV’s and turcks because of the huge profits in them. So here they are again like 1973 with overwight, inefficient dinosaurs, just when the public wants efficiency. Hello!
By the way, the Chevy Colorado just came in DEAD LAST in a small pickup comparison in the new Car and Driver. The test was won by the (Butt-Ugly) Honda Ridgeline.
Looks like the Japanese are finally going to take over the only markets that the domestics still own.
Mr. Lutz,
I test drove a G6 against a Mazda6. Subjectively the Mazda6 seemed a lot better, and I’ve been trying capture why I felt so.
First, what I liked about the G6:
1) Clean styling. The sheetmetal looks wrapped tightly around the body, in the vein of an A4. Not quite as beautiful, but it’s the right idea.
2) The interior is roomy and fairly comfortable.
3) The 200-hp pushrod V6 is a terrific value and a nice gas-miser, even if it is old-tech and goes GOROGORO when revved. It has the low-end grunt city drivers need. I think it’s a much better choice than a comparable 4-cylinder.
4) The instrument cluster says “Pontiac” better than the old cheesy fighter-jet style did.
5) The handling of the Epsilon platform is top-rate.
What I didn’t like:
1) The interior overall just doesn’t cut it. It’s better than it used to be in a Pontiac, but that isn’t saying much. The air vent/radio/HVAC panel looks like a robot frog or something. Enough with the same old expanse of cheesy black plastic with cheesy little buttons that have cheesy little white figures on them. It still looks cheap. The seat cloth feels cheap and flimsy. Others, like the Mazda, do better with the same class of materials.
2) Details make the difference. If Pontiac is a “performance” brand, why are details like the steering wheel and shift knob still budget-class? On my 1999 Intrigue, I could get this stuff leather-wrapped for a couple hundred bucks as an option on the base model. On the G6, it’s not available on the base model. I thought Chevy was the budget-class marque? Or maybe Saturn? With Pontiac, I think the buyer should feel like he’s in something sporty, even with the least-expensive model. Otherwise, the G6 is just a warmed-over Malibu. I’m confused.
3) What exactly is “performance”-oriented about that same old four-speed automatic slushbox?
4) I think the base model is competitive against, say, the Mazda6i, but the GT is no match for the 6s. A high-feature V6 should be available on the GT, as should a state-of-the-art transmission. The pushrod has a great advantage against fours, but can’t keep up with the high-revving DOHC engines with VVT. That Mazda6s is fun as hell. Why should a buyer have to wait a year and go for the top-of-the-line high-dollar GXP (what will it be, like $29,000?) to get a competitive high-performance engine from GM’s “performance” brand?
The GT is supposed to be upmarket, with some grunt to back up the marketing image, but the actual product is treated the way Chevy does theirs — a budget-class vehicle with some extra features.
This car has the chassis to get the job done, but the powertrain and details fall flat. It shouldn’t take that much to fix these details, but by then, the new-product buzz already has worn off (and I’ve already bought something else)! GM has to get it right the first time, not two or three years in.
Bob – I’m a retiree and my wife still works at R&D in Warren. I can;t believe that GM is still planning to spend millions on re-doing the R&D buildings in this time of intense financial pressure on GM … not to mention the fast that they keep sending people to off-shore meetings, and even provinding coffee, snacks, and lunches for meetings. The rest of GM has been cutting way back to help, but what about R&D ?
No-haggle, Saturn-style dealerships across the board. You would revolutionize the entire industry. GM is the world’s largest auto company, start acting like it! Set the trends instead of following them. Show us you believe in your product and you know what it’s worth. Oh, and you are getting your butts kicked in the warranty game. 3/36,000? You got a long ways to go…
First of all, a Japanese pickup is an OXYMORON if I ever heard one!
Second, I just pulled up the interior of the Honda Accord and at the same time the interior of the G6 (open up two browsers, this is interesting to do). At first glance, they do not seem all that different. However, after looking more closely, the only thing the Accord may have on the G6 is the gear shift housing. The red backlit dash on the G6 blows away the Accord and the round vents are cool too.
Lastly, what is up with not being able to choose an interior color on the Accord. You get don’t get a choice??? This question is for all of you who complain about GM’s interiors and their color selections. Did I miss someting on Honda’s website?
Bob, just a couple of quick comments. First, anyone in the industry knows that you have had limited input on the designs out now, due to the lead time in getting a car to market. When will we see the first model with your “signature” on it? Next, are you sure a reduction in sales to fleets is a good idea? I rented a Grand Prix last summer and put 3700 miles on it in two weeks. Liked it enough that I just bought a GTP. I also have a ‘90 Beretta (pace car) that has 240K hard miles on it with no major problens. Hope the GTP can match it
We are working on a transaction for Ford that will help them boost earnings…Would really like to discuss this with you…Any chance we can get on the phone and I will explain ??…
With the rising demand of hybid vehicles and the increasing price of gasoline, is GM going to make a hybrid version of the Cobalt? Does it exist already?
There is somthing better then a hybrid Colbalt.. there is a Euro IV compliant Clean Diesel Delta platform car in europe. the mileage in real world driving is better then what a hybrid will provide, If this product was offered and marketed correctly, associate the duramax name with all chevrolet diesel technology. show the new “duramax” colbalt going further on the highway then the Prius, have the Colbalt driver pull over hook up and tow the prius to a gas station since the diesel offers pulling power and duribility it will associate a successful name “duramax” with the amazing smaller diesel technology GM allready has, and pull back the curtian on the overhyped prius.
Good question, Croc, (April 23) but again you run into the apples-and-oranges comparison. V6 to V6, G6 is outselling both Camry and Mazda 6 in retail sales, but our formidable competitors sell more four-cylinders than they do V6s. When the four-cylinder G6s come on-line, along with the coupe and convertible, it will be easier to see that we are moving up the food chain in the ultra-competitive mid-size segment. Are we where we want to be? No. But we’re not just jumping well over a low bar…we’re raising the bar each month.
Jim Hopson
Pontiac Communications
MKCO (April 25)
Yes, you’re correct. We will not offer the six-speed in the G6 convertible when it launches in early 2006. The convertible is structurally quite different from the coupe to safely support the functionality of the retractable hardtop. With the increased structural support, we couldn’t fit the manual transmission in the convertible. Although the actual number of manual convertibles in the marketplace is pretty small, we are not completely ruling out offering a six-speed in the convertible at some point in the future.
Jim Hopson
Pontiac Communications
Patrick (April 24)
You point out one of the dangers of issuing “preliminary” information on cars. When we put our catalogs together, all we had were guesses for the EPA mileage numbers, and we tend to make some very conservative guesses. The real numbers on the 3.9 liter engine in the GTP models is 18/26 for the automatic and 18/29 for the six-speed. I think these actual numbers are much more in line with what you were expecting, especially for an aggressively geared vehicle.
Jim Hopson
Pontiac Communications
MJ (April 20)
It’s a question of balancing performance with fuel economy. The 17-inch rims on the GTO give us the optimal balance of both. However, we do have 18-inch wheels available for the GTO if you want even higher performance at the sacrifice of some fuel economy.
Jim Hopson
Pontiac Communications
GM does plan to launch a mid-size vehicle hybrid option for consumers, the Chevrolet Malibu, in 2007. At this time, we do not have any plans for the Cobalt, however, our hybrid systems are versatile so that we can adjust our plans to meet market demand and customers’ needs.
Susan Garavaglia
GM Hybrid Communications
Here’s the problem with Mr. Lutz’s explanation on the G6 sales:
Maybe he’s right, and when the 4-cylinder model is introduced, overall sales will surpass those of the previous model. On the other hand, maybe not: the 4-cylinder model might simply draw sales away from the low-end V6 model.
But any way you look at it, the 2005 sales of Pontiac’s best-selling model are down 20% for *this* year. Those sales are gone forever–nobody’s waiting to buy a car until the 4 cylinder G6 comes out. That can’t be good news for a company that’s losing money *this* year.
I can’t imagine Honda or Toyota coming out with a new version of their bread-and-butter sedan but somehow failing to produce the 4-cylinder model for a year.
I have a 2005 CTS very 3.6 with sport suspension; why when Cadillac builds such a nice vehicle do they put a usless radio in the vehicle? The standard audio system is actually quite good except it is equiped with RDS which is useless. Although the ability exists to toggle between clock and display; the dsiplay will revert back to the clock in 10 seconds; which makes the RDS unusable. The dearler looked into the matter extensivly and found that this is how irt was designed. It is these small details to attention that GM ignors that takes a great car and makes it a nice car. There is far too much competition to allow this type of defect to leave the factory.
Pay battention to detail it is the key to survival.
I was told by a friend that the J.D. Power quality report quoted recently isn’t proof that GM’s quality is better or even where stated in relationship to others. He said Power’s only puts the names of those auto brands/makes that buy their service. Please tell me if this is true, and if it isn’t, please give me a list of the top 20 car brand in their report.
Thanks – I’m trying to sell GM cars to my friends and neighbors.
John K.
Mr. Lutz,
I was the active duty officer at Brodhead Armory during the Grosse Pt. Messnight days when your daughter was a 2ndLt. Anyway, you are on to a good thing with design, but ask yourself please, what is the public’s hotspot for design; nostalgia! All else is blending together, Japan and the US! Maybe the public is looking for an “old” look instead of a new one? Look at the 06 Mustang, the PT Cruiser, and in a small way the T-Bird which was too expensive with a limited audience to be a real hit, but you already have the right idea with cost. You may have your staff go back to the 30s and 40s and pull out some of the best of GM, even the emblems of chrome and enamel; art, emotion, and nostalgia, and tie the old in with the new in your advertisements. If they can do it at Ford with the Mustang, what about a version of the 50-60s Corvette; doesn’t even have to be exact, just related enough to pull it off. How can GM go beyond the PT Cruiser look with old styling, and maybe even a larger sedan with fenders, running board, and “hump” trunk? Is is time to update the Gangster Sedans in a limited way? Automobiles were art in those days! Is it time to start having old ideas vice new ones, properly applied. As you may know, there are many in the american public that can sit and stare at old cars for hours, so what does that tell you?
Good luck Sir,
Jim Davis
Has anyone noticed that Consumer Reports itself has a massively liberal slant?
It has been unfairly trashing Made in USA products for decade.
This is my first post and my first interest in GM in almost eight years. I am in the market to replace my 02 Accord Ex V6 and have looked at the Camry and the slightly redesigned 06 Accord. Eight years ago after unloading my 95 Grand Am Gt I said that I would never darken the door of a GM dealership again, but that changed when I saw the G6. I stopped in to the local dealership and test drove an 06 Gt loaded. I was very pleased with the feel of the car, it was far better than my old Grand Am. It felt solid, had good pick up, interior materials were much better, and the leather seats had a higher quality feel than the leather in my Accord. The drawbacks are no climate control for the GT, no homelink, and the price was close to the Accord I test drove which had homelink, dual zone climate control, dual exhaust. The 3.5 is not getting great reviews however for my driving habbits it felt fine but it is not as smooth as the Honda.
My rambelings come to this, I want to buy a domestic but the value still is not there. The G6 is not an enthusiest car but most of us who might buy one dont really care. The product is a vast improvement over previous models offered but when comparing the price, overall relaibility (which I do think is getting better), equipment offerings (homelink,climate control,lockable fuel door) and resale I just can not bring myself to sign on the dotted line. The Accord I am considering is $27,400 and the G6 I drove and liked was $26,800. What happened to lowering the MSRP of 06 models.
If the G6 GT loaded was $24,000 with the three features mentioned I would buy it.
GM, I didn’t know that you had a blog focuing on women and wheels. I can tell you that I was treated with contempt when I was looking at a GM vehicle. I had done my homework, and I wanted my very serious questions answered. I was treated like a dummy. Do you think this is the way to get people to buy vehicles? I don’t, and I won’t be buying from GM, nor will I ever step into a GM showroom again after my experience. You people just don’t get it. You think that you still control over half the market, when you don’t even control a quarter of the US market. GM should have learned a long time ago that women know about cars, and we know what we want. Also, GM, women make most of the purchasing decisions in a household. That is a fact you people should remember. No one should be treated with contempt, and that is still one problem that GM refuses to change. I have even heard men say the same thing. GM never does learn. I wonder if you people read any of these messages to learn anything. I was also interested in two Toyota vehicles, and I asked my questions, and they answered them fully, and treated me with the greatest respect, which is what I and every customer expects. Not only did they answer my questions and concerns fully, they wanted to know if there was more I wanted to ask, that if anything they said caused me to have anymore questions. I made my decision. I went with Toyota. I will never even think about GM again. I posted a similar message on another GM blog because I did not realize GM also has this blog. Keep treating women like dummies, and just remember that we can and will take our money someplace else. I sure as h**l did, and Toyota took it with no problem. GM didn’t get my money after all. Maybe GM would have if I had been treated like an intelligent person. After all, buying a vehicle is a major purchasing decison. I really did like some of your vehicles, but I will not buy from any company that will treat me like dirt. Goodbye, GM, forever. I am only 26 years old, and I will be buying many more vehicles in my lifetime, and they won’t be GM. Of course that is assuming GM doesn’t do bellyup. Take a piece of advice and read these messages. You people might learn something. How are you going to restore profitability, when you are throwing potential customers out of the showrooms?
When will cobalt 2.2 ecotech engine get varabile valve timing. The cobalt seem like a good car better gas milage would be a big plus.
I’m all about performance, and ever since I first heard about the G6 GT Sedan I immediatly started searching for all the info on the car as possible. It seemed pretty good, a lot better than my 04′ Grand Am anyway. The 3.5 V6 201 hp and better handling all the way. and later the GTP Coupe was announced and I fell straight in love with this car. 3.9 OHC V6, 240hp/ 241 torqe and even better handling. The sleek look (especially from the back.) was just freak’n awesome! but then I found and compared this to other imported vehicles that were in the same level of market, and while the G6 Coupe took the lead in looks, the performance was another story. Like the Maxima and Altima had 20- 40 more horses, had more options, and was cheaper if not the same price. While I’m still eyeing an 06′ G6 Coupe GTP this coming May, General Motors really needs to catch up to the import market in terms of performance quality.
i just read where someone said 10 year warranty 10 year warranty 10 year warranty, well read the fine print guys, when you see a ten year warranty its limited and covers very little after 12 months, much less aft 36 months and after that its only a gimmick to get you into a dealer so he can get your repair business at 55 plus dollars an hour.