About that Solstice…

However, one has to wonder if the opportunity on the solstice has been squandered, and the Solstice/Sky will end up another HHR.

Already the new Miata is hitting the road, making -7 hp but -400 lbs, the slickest manual top ever seen on a roadster (easily put up/down in

With the solstice barely trickling out and the Sky still a dream, it feels like, once again, GM missed the target (last year's Miata) as the target has moved.

Tom, Thank you. That's all a lot of customers like me wanted to hear. Something official, albeit not specific, reasons for the delay in delivery. I'll keep waiting. Please try to keep us informed of any further delays. Again, thank you for finally responding.

Thank you for responding Tom. I quite honestly expected nothing, so I am thrilled that you addressed our concerns. 1k#295

GM just can't seem to get it right. They rush the GTO into production as a warmed over Monaro ( yawn) and it flops.Gee, what a surprise. They pull out the stops in creating the Solstice but don't have it available when people want one. Hello?

Weaver, your comment is biased. You either own a Mazda, or simply hate GM. I have driven the new Miata, very nice car. The problem with it, in my opinion, is that the cars' appearance is as exciting as an Amana frig. In this segment of the market, assuming the quality is there of course, the Solstice is going to Kill the Miata in sales. In fact, I submit to you that Mazda will be forced to redesign the car earlier than planned; a la Ford 500. Many years ago the Asian companies were always late to the show; however, when they did show up, they had quality products. Its' great to see GM take it slow. Very Asian of you all at GM. Keep the eye on quality and design. The rest will follow.

Thanks for the update!

Though our dealers are only the best source of information, IF your sales person knows how to look up VOMs or finds someone who knows how.

In order to find out any information on the status of my car, I was able to have an extremely generous salesman 4 states over in Missouri look up my VOM.

After 3 years of waiting for this awesome car, this "so close, yet so far way" from delivery is killer.

Viva la solsticeforum.com!

Perfect timing. Just received the lastest issue of AutoWeek in which the Solstice is the cover vehicle. The article is very positive toward the vehicle and should help drive interest in it.

That's all fine and dandy, but what about the Camaro? Seriously, get SOMEBODY on here to tell us whether or not we will have something to compete with the Mustang soon.

Good to hear, Tom, you folks are doing your best to make sure the Solstice assembly process goes well.

GM can also help solidify Solstice customer satisfaction by getting it right in the SERVICE area; dealer technicians getting the right manuals and training opportunities, and key spare parts shipped to dealers stock rooms.

Let's not have senarios like the Malibu, which apparently has 7-month wait for some parts!

One thing I wish that GM should have doon with the Solstice/Sky combination.

Saturn Sky would have been better positioned as an entry level roadster with a 2.2L DOHC L4 engine with optional turbo.

Pontiac Solstice would have been better positioned as an upgraded Sky with different styling and a 2.8L DOHC V6 engine.

Then Chevrolet Corvette could handle the true sportscar with a 6.0L OHV V8.

Additionally Cadillac XLR could handle the luxury sportcar with a 4.6L DOHC V8.

But what about my CAMARO!? That should have a 3.6L DOHC V6 or optional 4.6L DOHC V8. A special edition 6.0L OHV V8 would not be shunned either.

See? No overlap.

Hi Tom,
So when will the marketing team communicate with the rest of the world the findings from the first 1000 owners? I think many of us would appreciate hearing the feedback (both positive and negative) you guys have gathered so far.

A very smart move on GM's part, ensuring the first build solstices are perfect in every specification can only mean good reviews and praise from the owners.

To Whom It May Concern:

My name is Gary Burrell, my Soltice VIN # is 0017. My wife and I love our Solstice. We would be honored to grant permission for GM our picture as posted in The Solstice Forum. Pleae find the impage attached below:

To Whom It May Concern:

My name is Gary Burrelln I reside in Raleigh N.C., my Soltice VIN # is 0017. My wife and I love our Solstice. We would be honored to grant permission for GM to use any of our pictures as posted in The Solstice Forum.

Good Evening Tom, I wrote in the other post as well, I currently work at a Chevrolet Dealership, and I have talked to a few friends, one drove near 500 miles to buy a solistice from a dealership that was staying with its MSRP price. because his local Dealership has been putting 5k$ premium on your flagship for pontaic. Now this although it is good news that people are so interested in a GM product that they could care less about the price, Is bad for GM, it is bad for word of mouth, and it is bad for Pontaics image when people expect to get one for 20-25k and really get it fr 25-30k, the customer feels as if they have been lied to or tricked.

Thanks for comunicating with the public and letting us know how production is going.
A GM fan and TransAm lover, so hopefully you can put in a good word for me :) over at the pontaic plant.

Mr. Kowalesski...my Solstice went code 4150 on the 10th. VIN #180. Now my dealer just added 2 or more weeks until delivery, which was due on the 29th. To say we're both bummed is an understatement. Something is a little fishy here.

TOM-

I think that it's great that GM is trying to work the bugs out BEFORE a car gets on the street.

Where you were shot in the foot was trying to get the car out quick--very admirable for GM.

I sincerely hope that this car gives Pontiac positive momentum. I'd hate to see Pontiac go away.

Please produce the fastback version of this car-you'll probably sell 100,000 total units!

Thank you for this response. I have a First 1000 on order for a customer, and am extremely concerned about not only that delivery, but the Image that this car is creating for Pontiac, and GM. I want to see GM not only on top, but unreachable by competitor's cars and trucks. Keep up the good work, and keep us informed. Thank you...

I can't wait to see and drive a Solstice in person. There is a thread on GMInsideNews.com stating that the Solstice is scaring Mazda. I think the Kappa twins should put a scare in the whole d@mn industry.

I recently took a road trip to Iowa City, from my new home of Cedar Rapids, this past Friday to get some dinner. The Univ. of Iowa is back in session and I wanted to check out the city with the kids back in town. Some guy, maybe a professor there, pulled in in his TT. Nice car. I asked him if he has heard of the Solstice from Pontiac. He said no. I asked him to be on the watch for it. Just planting seeds, see what takes root.

The Solstice is a truly a beautiful car. Classic, soothing lines. Wow!

All of you at General Motors should be proud. Hopefully, this is just the start of something beautiful. My hope is that once that inertia starts, that great things will happen. Now we just need the Lions in the Super Bowl.

Great ad idea. Sure it's unsolicited, but what the heck:

After the Solstice has been out for about a year. Follow some Solstice owners who converted from an import manufacturer. Highllight the brand and model they converted from BMW, Miata, Lexus, etc. then highlight and/or discuss some trips they took, comments they've received, etc.. Would do allot to attract other typical import owners.

I am anxiously awaiting the arrival of the Saturn Sky & Aura. When will they start to show up in dealerships?

It really isn't funny. I don't know who to believe. One day GM is setting sales records, the next its Bond rating is Junk.

Is GM going to pull out of these depths (that the newspeople just LOVE to play up)? Or is GM in for serious times that will eventually downsize this goliath of a company? The latter would be just a shame.

You did such a nice job on the SOLSTICE why not do the same for the CAMARO?

Any comment on the Automotive News report today that "Beta" is being looked at?

In that same GMI (scaring Mazda, quoted from Automotive News) article, Mazda's senior managing executive officer in charge of marketing, sales and customer service, Daniel Morris basically conceded defeat, stating that the Miata's biggest market will be Europe, not North America as it has been in the past.

The article also said that Mazda's forecast for North America was 16K units. Considering they only sold 9,356 Miatas in the U.S last year and with the Solstice already taking a 9,000 unit bite out of the roadster market.... well, good luck to them in reaching that 16K number.

As much as I tire of continually reading "Where's the Camaro?" in comments, I'm betting the project supporters within GM are using them to reinforce the idea that the market is clamoring for them.

What I don't think some of the commentors realize, though, is that it is not a simple proposition. The bar was raised so high by the new Mustang that unless a new Camaro comes out with all guns blazing and a few bazookas waiting in the wings, it will be dead in the water (selling a few thousand Z28s to die hards and drag racers does not pay the bills for a fresh-sheet design). They have to once again figure out a way to get an engine that competes with $60k cars into a $25k package that is still sound enough to compete in the $20k V6/rotary/I4 sport coupes market where power is not the biggest selling point. It's not enough to just spit the car out with a big engine and big tires when you have such stiff competition in the market from all sides and even internally.

They also can't leak information or even hints on here, no matter how much you beg, because it will instantly be plastered across the world as gospel. I encourage the enthusiasm about the car, and I'd be very tempted to buy one myself if they did come out, but don't get mad at Tom or anyone else within GM for not letting the cat out of the bag before they even know if it has claws.

The only way to solve the Miata vs Solstice/Sky debate is to drive them both. Since I can't TRY a solstice/sky, I am going from only partial information here.

However, the last gen miata would really be scared by the Solstice. And if the choice was an 05 miata vs an 06 Solstice, you wouldn't have to wait a second to hear my choice.

And, agreed, the miata is a yawner in the looks department, but in the same way that the Solstice is. If we got a Sky, it would be because of the looks over the miata, nothing else. And the gross impraticalities in other ways would seriously handicap the sky.

But some things are truely vastly better on the new miata (both over the old miata as well as the solstice/sky): notably the top, the storage, transmissions, power/weight, reliability, etc...

To put the top up/down on the Solstice, you have to stop, get OUT, open the trunk, pull the top up, get in, lock it down, get out, close the trunk, lock down the flying butresses, get back in.

http://solstice.inner-ninja.com/users/Excelsior/

YES, that is what it takes. Unbelievably, unforgiveably clunky. It's faster to take the roof off an old del Sol!

What a PITA! You aren't going to be doing the "keep the top down in the rain, toss it up at a long light" bit you can do on other convertibles (and I've done. It worked fine even on the old miata, which had a slightly annoying top).

The Solstice/sky's top was done by a designer, not a driver.

Compare. To put the top up on the 06 miata, you press a button, reach back, pull forward, and single latch-in-place. 5 seconds. Yet the Z-fold looks just fine without a tauno cover.

And ~1.4 cubic feet of trunk space? You do realize how tiny that is. My girlfriend's motorcycle's topcase is bigger! A goldwing has over 3x the cargo room! And a trunk which is easier to get into, too.

And transmissions? 5 speed manual vs 5 or 6 speed manual or 6 speed paddle-shift auto?

And 400 lbs is a lot of weight, which is not compensated for in the current engine. 170 hp with 2470 lbs car + 100 lbs gas/oil/coolant + 200 lbs rider = .061 hp/lb. The pontiac has .056. A noticable difference. Probably part of the reason the Mazda claims much better gas mileage.

And which car is going to be perceived of as more reliable? The one with the 4 year, 50k mile warantee or the one with 3 year, 36k mile warantee?

And which car will be perceived as safer? THe one with a pop-up rollcage and side-airbags? Or the one withhout?

Again, this really feels like another dissapointment from GM... I know I'm a naysayer on the solstice/sky. The looks of the sky excited me, as did the price. But if I was buying today (rather than +2 years, here is hoping for an S2000 hybrid.)

This is not going to stop me from testdriving a Sky, back to back with a Miata, when we do buy a roadster.

But, as I said, it feels like GM pulled its standard routine, as witnessed in the Malibu and a host of others: Hitting last year's target, not today's.

(OH, and FYI. Our cars are a 95 Saturn which we've been 100% satisified with (it's cheap, it works, it has had 0 problems in 125000 miles, and gets 40 mpg on the highway. And it looks pretty good too, for a 10 year old car) and a 2004 Mazda 6 5-door.)

Bosco, since when is this blog about objectivity? Tom Kowaleski, the GM Vice President of Communications (translation: GM Public Relations Flack in Chief) is clearly "biased," is he not? He is not being paid his handsome salary, stock options and bonuses for being objective. So why do I, Mr. Weaver or anyone else here have to be?

I am not anti-GM. But in a Mazda Miata/Pontiac Solstice comparison, I AM BIASED! And I don't apologize for it. The company behind Mazda, Toyo Kogyo Co. Ltd, has built a long record of quality and dedication to customer satisfaction. The Miata is an established product with a solid tradition of excellent value, performance and quality in a light-weight, low-cost sports car.

[The last dog products I can remember from Mazda were their first rotary-engine models, but that was 40 years ago! And they busted their rear ends - and their balance sheet - replacing customers' bad Wankel engines and buying back cars. I don't remember GM EVER going to such lengths to atone for THEIR turkeys. At least not voluntarily, without being forced by lawsuits in those states with lemon laws.]

GM has a tradition, too - of slipshod mediocrity - uninspired design, indifference to build quality, shoddy materials, poor reliability, and lack of concern for customer satisfaction. GM established and nurtured this dubious "tradition" over nearly four decades.

Corporations are like people in at least one way: the best predictor of their FUTURE behavior is their PAST behavior. This isn't a sure thing, but if you're going to be placing bets (by being an "early adopter" of an automobile that is a brand-new product, one is betting tens of thousands of dollars), that is certainly where the smart money is.

I know, this is "The New General Motors." GM is hosting this blog, and has bought nationwide full-page newspaper ads, to get out the message that GM has changed, has started a new chapter rededicated to product quality, value for money and customer satisfaction.

If I had a quarter for every time I've heard GM sing this song...

To be fair, I have seen evidence that GM really "means it" this time around. But the products have to tell the story, and there just hasn't been enough time yet.

From Mazda or Toyota or Honda, or a few others, I would consider buying a brand-new model and I would trust on faith that it wouldn't turn out to be a piece of crap.

With a new GM product, I wait and see - for at least a year. If today's Solstice buyers who are eagerly paying a several-thousand-dollar premium for the honor and privilege of being the first on their block to own one, aren't feeling like they were had a year from now, and if the car generates good word of mouth, and there is no horribly negative press about it, THEN I would seriously consider buying one.

The bottom line is that GM still has a lot to prove and Mazda doesn't. And as a prospective new car buyer, my opinion - biased or not - is the only one that counts.

The Solstice is a gorgeous car, and one that I honestly thought GM would never build. I really hope this car will murder the competition. Keith, I dont think the Mustang raised the bar much at all. If GM went the "retro" route with styling, which I really hope they would, it would only make the Mustang look even uglier. GM has larger more powerful engines, and transmissions already available. Do the math, 1969ish body style, proven engines from 3.8L to 7.0L, and maybe a 'lighter than Mustang' IRS chassis equals a car that would dominate over the Mustang, the upcoming Challenger, Supra, RX-8, 350Z etc. etc. With the building of such a classic looking Miata-killer, I think V8 fans just want something to look foward to other than FWD or a 35+ grand sticker price.

It looks better than a baby Benz for the price of a second hand beat up Beamer Z3.

A common man's Lambourgini.

Right from Lutz's dream right into my driveway.

And in the end when all our dreams come true our only regret will be why didn't we dream bigger?

Come on Lutz not all crossovers have to be wagons.

Not all large cars have to be long, a high belt line, high seat, flat floors and substantial hood and trunk and of course a high roof.

GM needs to get out of its posture of retreat and into an aggressive, offensive mode.

You have the best products in the world now, the best sales strategy ever concieved, market share surge, and more awards than anyone can mention, so be aggressive with product investment.

Don't send Buick to the dance with last years clothes on. Treat her like a lady. Give her a date with Hummer. We are asking for 30 oz rib eye not white castle.

Where's the beef?

Come on be true to your vision, don't retreat "Dream Up"...Lexus fighter not Honda alternative.

Remember in China the Red Flag Roller. If they can do it why can't GM?

It's BUICK'S turn now.

Heritage is not the past it is who you are.

GM is the Saudi Arabia of heritage design and it is time to tap the well.

And if you can get that Hummer H3T pick-up truck out GM will have the same problem as Las Vegas, how to count all the money.

All is well with the H3, Solstice and HHR God has blessed the Neapolitan.

To answer Chris's question above,

The Saturn Sky will start production the beginning of next year. The Saturn Aura will begin production in summer 2006.

Randy Fox
Saturn Communications

First off, I'm one of the most critical of GM's management and their absolutely awful business strategies, execution, lack of urgency and generally sub par floundering in everything they do. That said, we've been told on here by Lutz that things are now different. I tend to think the same people who get you into a mess cannot get you out of it but Bob was not part of the original mess. (But he is still part of the mess.) He pushed this car into production with original specs and pricing targets. On the topic of the Solstice, I just cannot see how you could argue with the product. The sales effort and marketing effort...well, we don't really know yet. A botched delivery for a roadster into the fall and Xmas another snafu. That said, they won't have a hard time selling all of them in the sun belt.

GM deserves some kudos here. Frankly, who cares if it is heavier than a Miata or has seven horsepower less. First off there is no exclusivity to the Miata. There are hundreds of thousands of generally look alike Miatas out there from the last ten plus years. Secondly, does a Porsche, BMW or Mini buyer even care about such nebulous issues? Hardly. It's an emotional buy for a work of automotive art. This car is an emotional buy. If GM can replicate this another twenty times into the existing product portfolio, sales will take care of themselves.

This car and the effort GM put into it deserves an A+. You cannot be critical just to be critical. And there is much to be critical of. Kudos should be given when they are deserved.

weirving,

Thanks for the laugh! Your experience with Mazda is 180 degrees from mine....

Growing up in the 70s and 80s, widely considered to be not GM's best years, my extended family owned only GM cars. Friends, the media, etc. keep saying how much better the Japanese cars were. When I graduated college and could buy my first brand new vehicle, I bought a 1994 Mazda Protege. What a mistake! I had nothing but trouble with that car, and Mazda and the dealers were absolutely no help! In addition to the mechanical issues, the interior was cheap and plastic looking, the fabric was extremely low quality (after a few months there was a HOLE worn in the driver's seat from where the shoulder strap from the seatbelt rubbed it), and it couldn't handle the slightest incline. Oh yes, and they were too cheap to put a warning buzzer in to remind you if you left your lights on. Attention to detail and quality? You decide.

Unsurprisingly, after that piece of junk I went back to GM. My current car is a Saturn Ion, and I'm taking a hard look at the Sky. I have gotten to test drive the Solstice, and it was an absolute pleasure, but the Sky's two toned interior looks more my style. But I'd bet on the Solstice any day before I'd consider the Miata.

The Solstice is a great looking car and the first Pontiac I have wanted since my 78 Trans Am. Here is what I am worried about. CNN/Money is reporting GM is losing $1227 dollars on every vehicle it sells...How long can that go on? Come on GM, do what you gotta do to survive. America is rooting for you.

Quote: The bottom line is that GM still has a lot to prove and Mazda doesn't

Really? Have you looked at any of the jdpa quality or durability studies in the last 5 years? GM practically OWNS the entry and midsize segments. The Malibu has taken both the initial quality AND longterm durability awards in 3 of the last 4 years. The Buick Century has had similar successes in the premium midsize category. Are you looking for the Camry or the Accord (the industries supposed benchmarks)? Keep looking. Let me give you a hint: you'll need to go back NINE years to find either one on either survey. I'm not suggesting that the Camry of the Accord are poor quality -- but they aren't the industry leaders. GM is. IMO, GM's biggest problem is public PERCEPTION.

I'd hold off the "Miata-killer" pronouncements just yet, 400 lbs and no trunk space is not to be scoffed at when you're trying to get more then just the people that instantly fall in love. The infatuated can support the car for maybe a year and a half at most before we find out if it can really compete in the marketplace.

As for Camaro vs Mustang, you are honestly one of very few people I've ever seen speak poorly of the new Mustang's styling (but I'm not one to frequent Camaro boards). Just about every comment I've heard from someone not entrenched in the Ford vs Chevy war was that it's a masterful blending of old and new. I believe GM or any other competitors would have a hard time aiming for retro and bettering the Mustang without appearing to copy it, especially since in broad strokes the classic vehicles look somewhat similar.

Also, as I already said, simply having a good or great engine will not be enough just as it wasn't enough for the last generation of F-Bodies. Pony cars get in magazines because of their V8 models, but they sell and make money based on the overall quality of their V6 models. Of course if the Camaro comes out with great styling and a better chassis then the Mustang it will succeed, but those kinds of things aren't easy and aren't guaranteed. You don't just say "design something better for less money" and a year later it magically appears, especially not in today's world where platforms must be jacks of all trades and therefore masters of none.

The difference between enthusiasts asking for something and a massive company that is losing money hand over fist actually being able to do it is not to be taken lightly. That is not to say that it can't be done, but it will be a monumental task that should not be underdone taken lightly or simply because the Chevy bench racers (many of whom can't or won't buy it) want something to fight back with in arguments.

"You have the best products in the world now, the best sales strategy ever concieved, market share surge, and more awards than anyone can mention, so be aggressive with product investment."

-- Above quoted from Edward Hayes

Postings containing such mind-numbing, jaw-dropping hyperbole as the above make me suspicious. Is Edward Hayes a real person with real thoughts or is GM doing the blogosphere equivalent of "packing the house with ringers"?

OK, I have clear opinions about who makes the products I LIKE and why, but does anyone really know, even the experts, who makes the "best products in the world."? Best how? Best for whom? Based on various criteria I consider important, I have my "short list." But would anyone besides a GM employee or executive say GM is "the best"?

And "best sales strategy ever concieved"? Is he kidding? Unlike "the best," this is a testable statement, not a matter of judgment or opinion.

The facts tell the story and that statement is absurd on its face. If GM had even an effective sales strategy - forget about the best "ever conceived" - their market share would not be continuing on a gradual decades-long slide and they would not be having to give their profits away in order to slow the bleeding.

Creating a momentary blip upward in market share by selling your products at a loss hardly qualifies as a formula for success. Eventually it will show up in closed plants, laid-off workers, dividends not paid, new models not developed, research not funded, pension liabilities not served, cash reserves depleted, stock value lost, and ultimately the collapse of the company.

The recent agressive "employee pricing" sales strategy looks more like an act of desperation to me.

"...more awards than anyone can mention"? I'm not going to mention them, but I'm sure that they are a finite number and that therefore they certainly CAN be mentioned; go to GM's website - I bet THEY mention them.

I know GM owners who like, even some who LOVE, their cars. But I have never heard such euphoric cheerleading from any live, breathing human, which makes my bs meter peg into the red. I think some flack at GM is posting these things. Or am I just too jaded and cynical?

"No matter how cynical I get, I can't keep up." - Lily Tomlin

The design of the newest Mazda Miata is a total disappointment for me - looks like the previous version - there are no new emotions and car of this class should be emotions! Solstice screams "Buy Me!"
I want to say to Solstice team "Excellent job!"

As for Mazda's quality I would say iffy at best. I know someone who had a two year old MPV van, and had to change the tires. Then three years later, a power window went at a cost of over $500.

I know there are excellent Japanese autos, but I don't think Mazda is one of them.

GM,

I hate to say it, but I've just seen the articles about $3/gal gas. I know it's been said most Americans will need changes at $5, but many are already hurting. In a situation where gas prices keep going up, having the most fuel efficient cars, SUV's, vans, and trucks in each class and each trim level could save the company. Figure out how to beat everyone on efficiency for each performance level and then advertise it like crazy. Many people who may normally be Toyota or Honda nuts could come running to you in order to alleviate their wallet-woes.

Edward Hayes has previously stated he drives an old Cavalier, so clearly his judgement is suspect.

I had a well-cared-for'86 Mazda Rx7 that bascially had to be rebuilt at a little over 100,000 miles. Service was always an arduous and expensive proposition.

I was underwhelmed with my ownership experience- to say the least.

If I had to hold someone up as a "gold standard", I'd say either Saturn in general.

We've had great service experiences on our Cadillac SRX as well, but the vehicle still seems a wee bit "buggy".

2001 kettering alum, bsme

how can you compare the top-of-the-line mx-5 with the base solstice? why don't we compare the 250 hp gt with the base 125 hp mx-5, just to be fair. it's fair to compare the gt with the s2000. same weight, more power, WAY more torque.

if you check out nhtsa.com, you'll find that crash ratings aren't relevant if you compare cars that have a weight difference more than 300 lb. it's pure physics. most midsized cars are almost 1000 lb than the new mx-5! you can't even directly compare the solstice. maybe because the ms-5 is so small, it needs all those airbags. the roll bars aren't even necessary in small sports cars. if you are such a poor driver that you roll your mx-5, you got what was coming to you.

the 2.2 ecotec with 145 hp in a base solstice has the same power-to-weight ratio as the base mx-5. it would also undercut the mx-5 by a couple thousand more dollars than the regular solstice.

i don't see why gm doesn't just put a supercharger on the 2.4L. 250 hp won't break anything, and it would be a torque monster! also use gmpp cnc heads:)

if gm had a kappa based camaro (even with the 2.4 ecotec) i'd sell my nissan sentra se-r spec v (also excellent for autocrossing!) to buy it. the camaro could use the 3.5, 3.9, 5.3, and 6.0. in a 3000lb car with irs, super stiff chassis, it would slaughter the mustang in performance, handling, fuel economy, and cost. my .02

Why are all the Solstice's still sitting in Wilmington?

Bob,

I just moved to Tokyo, and would love to have a Solstice here (esp in the land of Miata!). Let me know how I can do it...

Eric

Weirving,
Is Mazda or VW paying you to post your 10 paragraph spiels here? Take a look at JD Power quality rankings you will see the VW brand you touted on another post is rated near the bottom of the list. Have you had the window fall out of your VW yet? Do you have a check engine light on that the dealer cant seem to fix?

The Miata is so great that dealers still have new 04's in the showroom. Your posts are a waste of time.

I am not a Solstice owner doubt I ever will be, but I was a Fiero owner and I can tell you that the true begining aim for the car was nailed, unless you ordered the automatic. Then the gas milage sucked, but it was always my understanding that the car was aimed at a one or two passanger car for comuting ect., and the sports car thing came later. The problem is that the car grew into the begining of what it should have been in the first place when they killed it.
I just hope they won't do it again.
The Solstice has a nice body good curves ect. but power is always forgotten unles it is a corvette.
If chivy can't handle the competition then get better people at the helm quick.
Do this car right give it the power and the handling to match the looks.
Please don't let Pontiac fall to the wayside as has beens to become the next Oldsmobile.

"guesswho"

No, I DON'T work, nor have I ever worked, for VW or Mazda or any of their dealers, nor have my relatives, nor do I own any of their stock, nor do any of my relatives own any of their stock - now or at any time in the past.

Clear enough?

And no, my windows have not fallen out. During a routine maintenance visit (oil and filter change), my VW dealer offered to replace the regulators with improved mechanisms (citing this common problem), at no charge, WITHOUT me asking them to and BEFORE they had caused me any trouble. So I am happy.

No GM dealer, in my experiences with them, ever offered me ANYTHING except under threat of lawsuit.

Yes, my "check engine" light went on and my dealer fixed it, at a cost of $600 for a replacement mass/airflow regulator. After a telephone call to VW Customer Relations, they agreed to reimburse me in full for this out-of-warranty repair. In three years, there has been no further trouble.

Cars, even the most reliable ones, are not perfect. They have flaws. How the dealer body and the company behind them stand behind their products when these inevitable problems occur is what matters most to me.

I would not be nearly so hard on GM's reliability if not for their traditionally TERRIBLE dealers and past record of sticking it to the customer whenever and however they can legally get away with it. I don't feel any confidence that GM wouldn't just throw me under the bus if I had a serious problem with one of their cars.

They screwed me once, really badly, and I have not bought GM in 25 years because of it. For patriotic and other reasons, I would like to go back to buying American - and GM's products are generally the most appealing to me among the domestics - but GM still has to prove to me that they aren't that same company any more. Call me "once bitten, twice shy." So sue me.

As for J.D. Power, I think their ratings are paid-for shills - total B.S. You don't think GM gets to stick the J.D. Power logo on their website FOR FREE, do you? Consumer Reports ratings, though methodologically and statistically questionable, at least aren't for sale.

For reliable and credible information, the NAASE compiles statistics from hundreds of thousands of dealer sevice departments and independent repair shops nationwide - what things break on what cars and how often. And their statistics are not for sale either.

Based on that information, the statistical difference between the "best" and the "worst" is surprisingly narrow - in fact narrower than at any time in the past as far back as I can go. Fierce competition has made "lemons" rarer than ever before, despite some of the horror stories one always hears from disgruntled owners of nearly any brand of car.

But there are still huge differences among makes in how customers are treated - the buying experience and the service experience. And that is much more important to me than bogus J.D. Power awards.

If I wanted the ultimate in appliance-like reliability, I would buy a Toyota, like my wife has. If that is one's yardstick, Toyotas (and their luxury Lexus line) are as good as they get. If that were EVERYONE'S yardstick, what need would there be for any other brand of car? But Toyotas are just not that much fun to drive. It's as simple as that for me.

As for Mazdas, my only Mazda lasted 21 reasonably trouble-free years. My friends who own and have owned Mazdas praise them. Excellent value for money as far as I can see.

Yet from where I sit, GM - as much for their dealers as their cars - seems to be a car company nearly everyone loves to hate. Too much bad karma over too many decades, perhaps? (Sorry about the pun.)

My posts "a waste of time"? Mine or yours? If mine, it is my time to waste. If yours, the fact that you apparently have been reading them and have taken the time to reply to them doesn't speak well for the value you place upon your own time, either. And I thought this blog had an anti-flaming policy?

Edward Hayes does not work for GM. If you want to know who I am.

First I am an author of "The Love Scrolls" if you want to know who I really am read the series. Look at Boarders or other book sites and you can read the synopsis of my life in the back of the book.

I have a full time job in retail because I live in NJ where the autmobile industry dissappeared.

A concerned American that wants to see GM and its workforce strive and survive.

If I had the secret to how to make GM #1 with 40% market share I would give it to them without hesitating a second.

Americans gave $100 billion in profits to foreign companies in an industry it created so you bet I will be rooting for the home team.

Studied Economics at Drew University, Madison, NJ wrote a paper on GM became a broker for a while if you need to know.

A job is good, career at GM is good but a mission? Few have that. The statistic just came out more singles living alone now than nuclear families. That is good for Solstice sales but not good for America nor is loosing GM.

So I strive to help both. To see GM survive and through "The Love Scrolls" series restore love.

If anyone has a mission that is easy they are a waste of sand.

Don't blame the entire company for a few bad dealers wierving. It sounds as if you are generalizing the whole company based on one experience.

I'm curious: if you receive a drop-out on your cellphone service do you blame the company or the fact that you are roaming and in a jungle? Simple car maintenance like oil changes, air filter replacements, and alignments stops problems from arising.

JD Power & Associates is not "paid-for shills". Think about it, if you win a trophy do you hide it in your closet, NO, you proudly display it just like GM displays their design, safety and security awards on their corporate website.

Bigger engine.
Better top action.
More trunk.
Leather interior.
Actually make the car available.
Raise the price a bit if you have to.

You won't believe how many you will sell.

I'd almost agree with Paul:

Supercharge the engine. You need at least the same power-weight ration as the '06 Miata, not the '05 Miata.

Redesign the top so the driver doesn't have to get out of the car to deploy it.

More trunk. At least as much as the '06 Miata.

Leather.

Tilt/telescoping steering wheel needs to be standard.

Raise the price if necessary, if it had those features, I'd buy it. Right now, it's down to the Solstice and '06 Miata, I'm just waiting for the opportunity to test drive the Solstice. After driving the new Miata, I can tell you it's going to be tough to beat, unless you're all about style over substance.

This may be a little off-topic, but I seriously hope that GM would consider selling some of its Opels here in the U.S.. The Astra and Vectra have much better styling than smaller Chevys and Saturns. They may have smaller engines, may not produce alot of get up and go, but getting 35 mpg in the era of $3/gallon gasoline? That would possibly draw 20-somethings here in Detroit who gobble up all of the Civics, Mazda 3s, and Jettas. I would buy an Astra in a heartbeat (yes maybe even with a 1.6 litre engine). GM needs to compete in that market -- the first time car buyer (people who might stick to the brand for a lifetime). It's a market in which GM has not had a foot in a long time.

GM seems to cite the bad euro exchange rate and auto unions opposition to importing Opels. It should look past this type of short-term thinking. Hey, why not make Opels a custom-order thing? A la Saab or Volvo, a customer could order it from the factory in Europe, and there they can make the necessary modifications for the U.S. market.

Mr. Burns:

My experience was not "just one bad dealer." It was a brand-new 1975 Chevrolet Nova V-8 hatchback coupe.

How did this car suck? Let me count the ways...

1. Small 262cid (4.3L) V-8 stalled early and often, especially on right turns; go figure.
2. Ran roughly. Never could get all 8 cylinders to run at once. Dealer, after 4 tries and many parts replacements, could not ever make it much better.
3. Fuel economy in the 8 to 10mpg range. Again, dealer could not fix after MANY times in the shop.
4. High oil consumption from the get-go. Normal during break-in, but never got anywhere but worse. Tank of gas, quart of oil. Tank of gas, quart of oil. Get the picture?
5. Water leaks. BIG ones. Despite dealers attempts to seal, a hard rain was good for a small lake in the passenger side footwell. YUCK!
6. Rust - ALARMING rust within the first year of ownership. Probably exacerbated by the water leaks they couldn't fix.
7. Mold and mildew in the AC. Made my hay fever go NUTS!
8. MORE rust - starting under the vinyl roof and rocker panels. THEN the hatch lid.

This car was sold to me as a brand-new car - less than 10 miles on the odo. I suggested to the dealer - only half facetiously - that perhaps I was sold a car that had been shipped on the Andrea Doria. I demanded a new car. Unfortunately, Washington state did not yet have a Lemon Law, so I was laughed out of the general manager's office.

General Motors Consumer Affairs Ombudsman blew me off the phone. They seriously suggested that perhaps the dealer would give me a good trade-in allowance on a new Chevy! On a car barely more than a year old, still seriously upside-down on the loan!

Upside-down or not, I dumped that sled like yesterday's bad clam chowder. Took it in the shorts BIG TIME.

The Chevy dealer sales manager's parting snicker was, "Sorry you're dissatisfied with your car, but frankly, if we lose you as a customer, there are plenty more where you came from."

I have not owned a GM car - or ANY domestic car - since 1976. I have owned several cars since, including 4 VWs, 1 Toyota, 1 Mitsubishi, 1 Renault and 1 Mazda; my VWs from 3 different VW dealers in different cities and parts of the country.

Every car has had some issues, early "teething problems" mostly. When manufacturing or design flaws surfaced post-warranty, all of these import dealers treated me with courtesy and fairness. A couple of times, I had to make some phone calls and twist some arms, but the disputes were always settled satisfactorily and amicably. I didn't always get everything I asked for, but I never left feeling screwed, either.

I buy a lot of VW's partly because I have developed something of a fetish for German iron since I lived there for a short time back in the 1980's. While every VW has given me good service, they are admittedly NOT as reliable as Toyotas.

But what has kept me going back to VW is that they - the dealers AND the company as a whole - have always given me a fair shake whenever I have had a problem or complaint. In one dealer's case, he has gone above and beyond more than once. This is worth a LOT more to me than J.D. Power awards.

More on J.D. Power...

Yes, it is logical that an award-winning car company would like to trumpet it to the world. But in J.D. Power's case, a good chunk of their livelihood comes from selling the rights to use their name and to reproduce their company's logo in automobile advertising.

OF COURSE companies want to trumpet their high J.D. Power ratings! That is why companies will pay them handsomely for the distinct honor and privilege of splattering their logo and name on their ads. In a real sense then, the ratings are literally for sale.

What's more, I question the statistical validity and methodology of their surveys. Their samples are too small and they are too easily skewed or rigged. And selling the ratings creates the perception, if not the fact, of them being sham.

Do you trust Nielsen TV ratings as being a statistically accurate picture of American TV viewing habits? I don't know anyone with the brains God gave the average ear of corn who does. They are even more of a joke than J.D. Power, for most of the same reasons.

By contrast, you will NEVER see Consumer Reports mentioned by an auto company in a website or ad. Even if it is a rave review, CU as a matter of policy, refuses to allow anyone to use either their name or their logo. They rightly feel that to do so would compromise their integrity.

As for your comment,

"Simple car maintenance like oil changes, air filter replacements, and alignments stops problems from arising"

It's not that simple on MY planet!

In my entire adult life - ever since I bought my first new car - I have NEVER missed an oil change, nor have I blown off a manufacturer's recommended maintenance schedule. NOT EVER!!

I ALWAYS break my cars in properly and I drive NOWHERE but on public roads and highways.

I use OEM filters and replacement parts OR BETTER. I frequently change the oil MORE often than recommended. I get a door ding or dent, I get it fixed. My cars are washed - top side and bottom side - once a week without fail - CRUCIAL in Wisconsin winters, with all the salt.

LEMONS DO HAPPEN! Cars that should have been smothered at birth DO GET BUILT! AND SOLD! To suckers like me!

In my case, I think I was deliberately sold a "new" car that had been submerged and then cleaned up for sale. The dealer collected the insurance and sold it anyway, getting paid twice for the same car. I think GM KNEW what they did, and tacitly condoned it. There was no "CARFAX" back then, either.

Is it really that much of a stretch for you to acknowledge that the car business is sleazy?? It's a little less sleazy than politics and the mass media, and a LOT less sleazy than the insurance and entertainment businesses, organized religion and the medical and legal professions. But smarmy and skankworthy it still is!

And yes, I think cell phone service SUCKS! Some more than others, but they all stink. I shouldn't have to go outside, climb a tree, stick a coat hanger up my bum or wrap my head in foil to get a signal. I should be able to call any square yard on this Earth from any square yard on this Earth! From indoors or out, any time of the day or night.

Some fine day - a decade or so from now - I will be. But today, like cars of the 1970's, mobile phone technology just plain stinks.

I am no longer impressed by the simple fact that I can carry my phone in my pocket. Cell phone makers try to paper over the very basic shortcomings of their technology with crap like texting, email, web access, games, downloadable ring tones, et al. I have other devices that do the other junk and do it a lot better than a phone could ever do. I would settle for a mobile telephone I can always count on to do what a telephone is supposed to do - allow me to TALK to people!

Sorry, but you caught me in my "curmudgeon rant" mood.

I've owned lots of cars in my life, from a '63 corvair monza, to a '05 350z roadster. I've owned chevy, ford, pontiac, nissan, toyota, suzuki, mazda and chrysler. Out of all of these cars, the most time I spent under them was with my ford Grenada. The vehicle with the least trouble was my '97 toyota Rav4.

I've owned 4 miatas with no major problems. First one I sold with 130k miles and never had anything but routine maintenance done on it. Nothing wrong with the car, but Wanted a newer one. The next one was sideswiped on the freeway and spun 360 and ended nose first in the cement retaining wall. Car totaled, driver unharmed. Asside from the final colision, nothing ever broke on it, and never needed anything but routine maintenance. The next One was T-boned while parked in front of my house on christmass eve. Same maintenance story as the other two. The last miata I had I sold 2 weeks ago. No problems ever with it, but owned too many cars and had to pick which one needed to go. Miata was the least practical for a stay home dad with 2 kids and lost the coin toss.

If this new solstice can come close to the reliability of the miata, I might be sold. The 400lb/7hp thing is no small matter, There is a huge difference in preformance with the miata when you put in a 200 lb passenger. Adding 2, 200 lb passengers to it would seriously hinder it's ability to preform and handel well. The agonizing proceedure of opening and closing the top of the solstice is another nail in it's casket. My wife had me look into the solstice as a possible replacement for the 350z. It needs 4 new tires at 20k and its MPG is horrific with todays gas prices. The more I look at the solstice though, the less I feel inclined to purchase it.

Some people are saying that GM missed the boat with the Solstice, but I don't see that at all. Over the past week, a majority of the people I've spoken with about the car hadn't heard anything about it. Some did recognize it from The a laugh. "Good luck!" When I told her it was $20k, her jaw dropped to the floor followed closely by a barrage of enthusiastic questions.
With regards to the Miata, no one notices it because it's been pretty much the same car for, what, 15 years?Apprentice episode, but marketing hasn't really started in ernest. I've only recently seen it in a commercial and that was only a brief image. The word isn't out yet - save for the very recent cover photos and reviews. When the first few cars start hitting the road and people see them...

A recent first reaction to the car was one from a friend upon seeing the Solstice in the lead photo of the recent Motor Trend review. I told her, as I pointed to the front end of the roadster tearing across a bridge, that I was "going to buy this car." She burst out with

The first car I ever wanted was a '60s Mustang...I was about 13. A few years later I lusted for a Toyota 4x4 (About 10 years later, I finally got one in '99). In between, I drove a friends '67 Firebird and fell in love. I learned everything I could about those first gen 'birds. Every book, every article, every event - any thing that involved that car, I consumed. I was obsessed. It would be 2 years before I could find money and oppurtunity at the same time. I was 21 when I found a primer black '69 with no wheel wells, no rug and no reverse for $650. Twelve years later, I still have and love that car passionately.

Again...at 33 (that magical marketing age group), I find myself awake in the wee hours of the morning surfing the Net to find every article, every post, every picture - anything that alludes to that car - the Pontiac Solstice.

Funny thing is, I'm planning on buying a 2007 - so I can get the more powerful engine. Today I'm going to my dealer - again (Blame the solsticeforum.com members. If they can wait 2 or 3 years, I can wait 1).

13,000 people have ordered Solstices without ever having put a hand on the car, let alone a foot on a pedal. This is an exceptional car that inspires desire like that of a teenagers first love. Thanks to GM, Bob Lutz and those at Pontiac for making me feel like a kid again...

Now, about the rest of the Pontiac line-up...

(By the way, the Caddy ad with the CTS? backing into and then shooting through the tunnel...awesome.)

Peace

I have a question, which I know probably won't be answered soon. When do we get the Hi-Po version of the Solstice?

I am the proud owner of VIN 82 and I am in love! The car is wonderful to drive and looks incredible. Yes it has its flaws, but what doesn't?

I struggle not to find excuses to take the car and find winding roads to anywhere.

Bravo! and make enough of these so others can feel the enjoyment I do.

Just received a Solstice quote from a dealer in Dublin CA for $5K over MSRP. Looks like I'll be heading back to the Miata dealer, unless anyone knows of dealers in the SF Bay area sticking to the MSRP.

My fiance and I just got a '05 chevy cavalier, and it doesnt have power locks or windows. I was just wondering if anyone knows about the average cost to have each of those put into the car?

There NEEDS to be a Solstice Coupe. Just count the number of reasonably-priced, rwd/irs, not-grossly-overweight coupes/hatches for sale in the U.S. market. That's right, ZERO. For the love of God and all that is holy, build me the modern 240Z I've been waiting for (and that Nissan decided NOT to build, instead building a 2-seat luxosport sedan).

240hp min/2800 lb. max, please!

I was excited to see a car like this being offered by a U.S. manufacturer so I placed an order for a Solstice on April 15 (the last time I bought a GM car was 1957). The design was just too good to pass up. I left a deposit and was later told that I was not one of the lucky 1000, but was guaranteed a car by the dealer (Burns Pontiac in Marlton, NJ). I was recently called and informed that the car was now being built and it would be delivered late September, early October. I can't tell you how excited I was after waiting this long with little word on delivery. The surprise came when I was also informed that I was being charged a $5,000 premium. I could take it or leave it, in spite of the fact that I was repeatedly told the car would not cost more than $25,000 with the options I chose. Supply and demand was the reason they justified the up-charge. I have a friend who ordered a Solstice through another dealer and he was told there was no premium. Is anyone else being held up by their dealer? Is GM condoning this?

Way back when the GTO still had chrome bumpers, the cars could be ordered with or without the options of the car buyers' choosing. Surely you remember those people GM? They were the ones who ordered cars without stereos or air conditioning because they wanted to go fast for cheap. Not so today. The only options on a modern GTO are a choice of two transmissions (manual or automatic) and floormats. You've missed your target audience. Instead of a cheap car that goes fast enough to be compared to the best sellers of the day, you give us an overpriced car that doesn't compete well with others in its range. It's a much NICER car than the old strippers, but we don't want nice we want MEAN. I would do without AC, power locks and windows, and about 90% of the sound insulation on a Holden GTO in exchange for a few hundred pounds of weight savings. Remember the Mongoose? A late 1990s Firebird stripped like this? You didn't produce it. Why? Remember the Banshee in 1964? You didn't produce it. Why? Now there is a perfectly good El Camino SS on sale right now in Australia called the Holden Ute. Why don't we get some? Are you mad at us GM? Do you need somebody at corporate headquarters to tell you the obvious? I am available. Here's a freebie: If you make cars that people want to buy, they will buy them. If you make cars that you want to sell, the buying public will look elsewhere.

In my opinion, it is foolish for GM to cancel a car because it competes directly with another car it builds. And why does Pontiac always get the short end of the stick? I remember how Chevrolet whined about the prototype all aluminum turbo V6 proposed for what would be the final series of Fieros. Most adults remember when the Fiero was canceled, but how many remember the 1964 Banshee prototype? It can be seen at hotrod.com This two-seat beauty had it all over the Corvettes of the day. The styling will be easily recognized, as the rear end went on to cover the second generation Firebirds, and the front end looks almost identical to a 1968 Corvette. Better to compete in-house and improve the whole family than to not be competitive at all.

I owned a GM car since I was 17. Ive been waitting for the dealer to get back with me , about the solstice.GM doesnt care for thier employer or anyone.GM slaped everyone In the face that worked for GM. What we get for a discont, they gave that to anyone. cj.

I just saw two Solstices at the Longmont Co Pontiac dealers grand Opening. I must complement the GM Pontiac division on their excellent work. Good Job!

If they were for sale, I'd be at the bank cashing in a CD right now. Hopefully, Cars like them will be available by next year..

Larry

Mr.Kowaleski, the unanswered questions by members of the solsticeforum are as follows: "Why are the 1st allocation cars being delivered before the 1st 1,000? and "What is the criterion for an event code?" I ordered my car on 4/25/05; someone else ordered theirs afterward. Their car is built and delivered while my 3100 event code is reversed to 3000. At this point, any communicated information would go a long way as there are many others perceiving this as a negative for GM. The Solstice was the first GM car I ever wanted to buy, but now I am deciding whether to cancel my order and go "green" next year.

CAN'T WAIT TO WIN THAT CAR

Ive been waiting for this car thats going to be the car of the year I would say . Im an emplorer of GM .I have 36 and a half yrs. This is going to be the car for 20006 I know .

Ive been waiting for this car thats going to be the car of the year I would say . Im an emplorer of GM .I have 36 and a half yrs. This is going to be the car for 20006 I know .

The Solstice is proof that GM can design and build new, highly desirable product. Thousands are clamoring to get their hands on this car. Why? Perception! This car is seen as hot, fresh,and hip. The cowards out there who will "only drive an import" even want one. The possibility of ridicule from the peer group prevents millions of americans from buying or leasing american cars and trucks, these people are cowards! The cowards will drive a few domestics, that are considered winners. Solstice, Escalade, Hummer, Corvette, Mustang etc.. GM and Ford need winners, it makes no difference whether the product is exceptional or not, hybrid powered, or whatever. Build exciting, fresh product and it will sell itself! Hey, the HHR is'nt even that fresh of an idea, but it's cool and hip and selling like crazy!

I own a 2002 MX-5 and love it. Looked at the 2006, and hated it. Looked at the Solstice, WOW.
Will I buy one? NO
I won't trade a "Boxer Killer" for looks, but I do wish GM good luck!

If this new solstice can come close to the reliability of the miata, I might be sold. The 400lb/7hp thing is no small matter, There is a huge difference in preformance with the miata when you put in a 200 lb passenger. Adding 2, 200 lb passengers to it would seriously hinder it's ability to preform and handel well. The agonizing proceedure of opening and closing the top of the solstice is another nail in it's casket. My wife had me look into the solstice as a possible replacement for the 350z. It needs 4 new tires at 20k and its MPG is horrific with todays gas prices. The more I look at the solstice though, the less I feel inclined to purchase it.

I ordered a Solstice in June and received it in Nov. of 2005.
The styling is out of this world and the handling is superb. GM and Bob Lutz have to be proud of this vehicle.
It is priced so comptetively it will move like hotcakes.
My overall rating is a 9 on a 10 scale and I'm a very conservative rater. The Solstice is a real winner, particularily in Red!