The Sky… And Beyond

I'm just curious, but how exactly are you going to set Saturn apart from say, Chevrolet? Or even Pontiac?

I mean, isn't the SKY just a badge-engineered version of the Solstice? And the same goes for the VUE, isn't it just a Chevy Equinox? And the Relay is a Pontiac Montana undercover?

I certainly don't mean to criticize, because I know that Saturn has the best customer service of nearly any brand, but you need some original products too. Badge-engineering worked in the 80s and even the 90s, but that just won't pass anymore. Saturn can't have a unique image if none of its products are its own...

I really like some of the details of design on teh aura.
I dont know the sales figures for the vue, but I think that is a very nice looking saturn vehicle. When it came out, it was the first saturn that I even would consider owning. Now there is the sky, having both of those in my garage would be a great match.

Let me know when Saturn is a great brand again and I'll come in for a test drive.

I used to be in LOVE with Saturn, but over time have grown dissapointed with the company's direction. One of the things that drew me to Saturn was that it did offer only one car and one price. It was so efficient, clear, clean and easy to understand what the company was about. It was one company rallied around a single vision: "This is what we do, and we do it better than everyone else!"

The cars were very mechanically straight-forward. The design followed suit without looking like it was from pre-Berlin Wall East Germany. The plastic on those early models was very utilitarian: it was tough, inexpensive and lightweight.

The plastic moldings and panels on the more recent models speak more of vanity than utility. The lines that are offered no longer adderess the first customers that purchased Saturns when they were introduced. The cars have so many bells and whistles they have become un-affordable for the demographic that they first appealed to. The fact that an SUV model is even offered reeks of inefficiency.

The clarity of the vision that turned Saturn into a market success is gone. It was the company that would have stood on its own against overseas competitors. What happened? [Un]fortunately, I will stick with the Hondas and Toyotas for the forseeable future.

I think it's great that each of the General Motors brands are beginning to really show their individuality. The new products from Saturn are again a reminder that GM is in the process of a major turn around and will stay focused on being the world's leading automobile manufacturer. Hopefully this will also mean that we will see Saturn begin to generate some profit for General Motors.

Unlike most persian bazaars disguised as dealers, the Saturn sales experience is unique - I enjoyed mine, and the dedicated salesperson who went beyond the call of duty to demo the product will always be remembered, even if the product was eventually disappointing.

If Saturn products and service can now get to those same levels of Saturn sales, Saturn will truly be a great brand!

Do something about the weak 3.5L in the colorado and H3. Why isnt it an option on the trailblazer?

the global 3.6L should be putting out 275hp at least.

How about a cobalt with a hatch. People like being able to carry a tv or something. I love the cobalt but I got to have the hatch. Guess I'll have to get a focus.

This is the way it should be. Every brand at GM should be a proud, independent, free spirited franchise, growing, dreaming and prospering as if they were their own company.

That is why GM is the Neapolitan. They could have made one car, one face, one name and sold it throughout Europe and the world. But they respected national heritage and taste. And instead of one face we get Saab, Vauxhall and Opel. That is why GM is the Neapolitan.

Here at home instead of one boring truck we get three unique, exciting and very different expressions of what a truck can be. The Hummer H3, Trailblazer and Envoy. From the same package three distinct flavors.

And I hope the distictions will continue to diverge with each of GM's brands here and around the globe having a purpose and vision while having one thing in common. They are made from the greatest car company on earth.

Some have a vision, one flavor for all in every market of the world, all the same. That is not how God did it. He gave each part of the planet their own style, song and secrets. Thank you GM for preserving the many faces of the auto industry here and around the globe and respecting their unique and individual heritage.

That is why you are the Neapolitan and why I say,

May God Save the Neapolitan.

The greatest leader does not impose their vision on others, but lets them all have their own vision and none will surpass such a leader in greatness.

Jill,

Thanks for the information regarding the status quo at Saturn. It is very well written.

On your next entry, would you please include any exciting news regarding the Saturn hybrid program? For example do you plan on making Saturn the first all-hybrid GM nameplate? What hybrid Saturn vehicles are under development and with what sense of urgency are they being brought to consumers? Will hybrid Saturn vehicles be new models, like the Prius, or will existing models be hybrd-adapted like the Mariner?

Now, if I want to keep up with the (hybrid) Joneses, I have to buy a Toyota, Lexus, Honda, Ford or Mercury. Can I put off buying these names in anticipation of a hybrid Saturn any time soon?

Thanks for listening and I look forward to any exciting hybrid Saturn developments!

so, in other words, Saturn is going to become what Oldsmobile used to be.

The Aura really needs the 3.6 to be the standard engine. No excuses. The import competition uses them. They do not use pushrod engines, why should the import fighting Aura?

Doesn't GM already have enough Epsilon variants using the 3.5? Malibu, G6. Why saddle the Aura with it.

Seriously, wake up. Take note of the competition and what the market desires. The consumer has spoken - just look at sales of the Camry and Accord. They should be the targets. Don't just aim to compete. Raise the standard to a new level.

That is great but when will we get the CAMARO back. It would be nice to get some news on it's progress.

I applaud your decision to use the 3.5 in the Aura. I drove a rental Malibu with that engine and came away impressed with its performance and economy, as I'm sure others would if they gave it an unbiased look. I'm glad it will be available in a car with some style. I'm also glad the 3.6 will be available. The more engine choices, the better. In the Silverado, you can get the 4.3, 4.8, 5.3, 6.0, and even a mild hybrid. I'd love to see that kind of choice in passenger cars again, the way it once was. Check a box on the order sheet for whether you want 4 cylinders or 6 (maybe even 8), pushrod or DOHC, normally-aspirated, turbo, or with a hybrid. And even diesel. Without having to buy $5K of options I don't want just to get the engine I do. Maybe that's where you're headed with the red line/green line variants. I hope so.

I here the employee pricing plan is discontinued and GM is just lowering prices on some models.

You guys need NO HAGGLE PRICING, just like Saturn!
Dont lower the prices somewhat, just make low no haggle pricing across the board for every division.

If you need a promotion on top of that at some point just use a low interest rate loan.

And the Warranty. If GM doesnt want to match Hyundias 10 yr warranty, then how about matching sister company Suzuki's 7 Yr Warranty with no deductible?
You need a longer warranty!

Dear Jill:

Saturn coupes and the Vue are very strong products.
Saturn needs to be the master of the practical smart looking sedan market too. Don't let Hyundai take your market in sedans.

I am really excited by Saturn's new direction. I have a 2003 Ion which I absolutely adore. I could go on for hours about all the different features. Despite some unkind words by the auto press, everyone I know loves the car, and I can't drive anywhere in my area without seeing several other Ions. Both the sales and service experience have been an absolute pleasure, and I look forward to being able to stay with the Saturn line for my future vehicle needs.

On a related note, I had the opportunity to test drive the Pontiac Solstice yesterday, and it was fabulous! It was a classy small roadster that was extremely fun to drive. The pictures of the Sky look even more to my taste- I can hardly wait to see it in person! Keep that wonderful two-tone interior in the final version, and this could be my next vehicle!

The 3.5 L is not the same engine as the G6, Malibu, Rendezvous or GM minivans. It's a new engine with VVT, offered for the first time in the 2006 Impala, and related to the new 3.9 L VVT engine, which has a new block design. As Honda so often does it only uses 2V per cylinder running off a single cam — as such it's strength is economy, not peak power, but with 211 hp it is still competitive with the majority of rivals using 24V SOHC/DOHC engines, most without VVT. More money gets you more power but less economy.

Follow up to my first post -

I have no problem with the 3.5. My father has a 2004 Malibu that I have driven on a few trips covering over 3000 miles. The 3.5 is a fine engine for Chevrolet. I have even averaged around 35 mpg, which is pretty darn good.

My problem is that it should not be in the Aura. Since Saturn has positioned itself as an import fighter, it needs to come to the battle with the same or better equipment than its competitors.

The 3.6 compares much better with the offerings from the class leaders. Plain and simple the Aura needs the 3.6 standard.

The Aura looks fantastic, at least from the pictures I've seen thus far. My one complaint- no manual. Maybe in the second year?

Jill,

Two concerns: as a professional marketer, I can't tell you what the Saturn brand stands for anymore. What are its basic attributes? Help us with that. Answer this basic question: why should I buy a Saturn brand car?

Second, why does GM force old pushrod technology when millions of consumers have chosen otherwise. I don't need to remind you of the sales success of the Camry and Accord. Why is GM so inward-looking, not consumer driven?

The Sky is a very nicely styled car, but in typical GM fashion, keep it underpowered to stay clear of the Corvette.

In describing Saturn, you left off one of its core attributes-plastic panels. Of course soon there wont be any plastic paneled Saturns, so much for listening to what the customer wants. (just like the GTO) The Sky is too beautiful of a car for door dings.

The time consuming process of making hydroformed body panels will limit your ability to increase Sky production to meet demand-something which plastic panels would have allowed.

Kudos on the '06 Saturn Vue. It seems we're still keeping this very quiet- I hope to see and hear more about it soon, as I feel its an important and well-executed product refresh. The interior, in particular, is much more compelling.

It does not matter that the 3.5 is a good engine. Using other than OHC engines in import intender Saturns is nothing short of marketing suicide.

Imports DO NOT have OHV engines and neither should Saturns. The result.... GM will be raked over the coals in the automotive media and called on the carpet for using a cheap engine in what's supposed to be a premium offering.

In light of the numerous posts in such as GMI warning of this, when it happens you won't be able to claim you didn't see it coming.

The Aura's engines should be as follows: 2.4L 4-cylinder, 2.8L HF V6 & 3.6L HF V6.

saturn has some promising products in the pipeline. cadillac has been reborn and the solstice will improve pontiacs image. GM has done many things right in the last couple of years, however there is still a lot left to be done. GM needs to stop the short term thinking approach...stop the rebadging, overlap, stop gap products and lukewarm facelifts of ancient models. develop one competitor to the camry, one to the corolla that will win over the customers in terms of interior quality, refinement, reliability and engines. develop RWD V8 cars. hybrids. small efficient cars (bring over opel as saturn).

Jill,

I’d like to address my comments to one of your statements:

“Our primary buyers are import intenders, so we looked overseas, to Europe, for our future design and now share an external and internal design language with Opel.”

I applaud the idea to pick up European design cues from Opel, but I’d like to see it carried a little further. Specifically, I’d like to see an Aura with a manual transmission coupled to the high-performance engine. It seems that historically in the U.S., manual transmissions have been attached to low-powered engines because they were seen as a way to sell a cheaper car. GM is beginning to see that many car enthusiasts associate a manual transmission with the “sport” aspect of driving (i.e. the Solstice/Sky, the Cadillac CTS-V and the G6 GTP). Please continue that trend. The Aura is a great looking family car, but I won’t consider anything without a manual transmission.

To continue the Opel theme, perhaps instead of offering the current Saturn Ion, you could bring over a Saturn version of the Opel Astra. Hatchbacks (both 3 and 5-door) are European standards and they’re just as useful (and fun) in the States. The Astra OPC would translate nicely into a Red Line model and would be distinctly different from the Cobalt without having to develop a completely new car.

I currently drive a MINI Cooper S, but when it comes time for my next vehicle I’d love to shop GM if it offers the vehicles I’m interested in.

Thank you.

I guess I'm not the traditional Saturn buyer as i hated the original cars and then bought a 2004 ION sedan. It's a fun car with a 5 speed, though with an automatic it's more of a dud. I'd like you to concentrate more on matching gearing with the powerband of the engines in your vehicles. Yes, the ION is a small car, and as such is supposed to be easy on gas, but the tall gearing and early shifting in the automatics just isn't getting it done. The ION should be fun no matter if it's a manual or an automatic. Before I forget, when the ION has it's next styling update, could you please remove the quasi-toyota grille that was added in 2005? The 03 and 04 models may have had a somewhat odd looking grille, but at least it distinguished the car from the more generic small sedans out there.

I'd also like to try to point Saturn away from superchargers on your four cylinder engines, and to turbos. Talk to the people at SAAB, they know how to do high powered turbocharged FWD cars. This could also translate to the RWD Sky and make people think that the target competition is the S2000 and Z4 rather than the Miata at a fraction of the cost. Also, please stop trying to market the Sky as a sensible car. It isn't supposed to be sensible. It's a sports car. It's supposed to be fun.

Jill,

Let's face it, there was a fourth element ... the new products you introduced didn't cut it. The L-series had an abysmal rollout, and the Ion was doomed from the start -- the substandard materials and weird design fetaures were out of place and out of touch with the Saturn customer. I don't really see any accountability in your division for these mistakes, Jill. Keep trying, fail, and try again ... and eventually, the blind squirrel found a nut in the Sky. Your group has done a terrible job with Saturn over the past decade, product-wise, even when factoring in what you had to work with.

Thanks for listening.

Just as an addendum to my earlier post, if you want to know what a really fun, sensible small car is, look at the Mazda3. It broke the myth that a small car couldn't be fun while still being economical. That is your target with the eventual upgrade or replacement of the ION. Build it and you'll have me as a repeat buyer.

As to the current ION not selling well, again, it's the "warm and fuzzy" marketing coupled with resistence from SL fans and buyers. The latter is more attributed to a lack of a new model for entirely to long than any particular shortfall of the ION, which in my opinion is nicer, faster, better handling and is a much better value than a comparable SL was in its final year of production.

O.K., let me get this right, You're using the Opel division to pick up some fresh ideas? I don't want to be rude, but these ARE desperate times for "the General" Hmm, more corporate inbreeding, Saturn's next on the execution list I see, following in Oldsmobile's footsteps? I loved the original Saturn roll out, but the product was allowed to stagnate. The original engines were often junk after 80,000mi and dumping them for corporate engines was smart. The Ion and Red Line are fresh, but a center mounted guage cluster? That kept me away. I have yet to meet an owner that likes it. Several other Bloggers were very right in their postings, DON'T stray from the original division plans: Simple, clean, affordable, efficient, durable plastic body panels, and innovative sales techniques. Fight imports? WHY EUROPE? Ask the youth of our own d**n country what they want! I remember lots of kids buying brand new early 90's twin-cam'd, manual SC2's and tweaking them heavily. They used them to get to college and then raced them at the local dragstips on the weekends. They did it on shoe-string bugets. The last thing I wanted when I was a teenager was Eurotrash. I bought a '72 Chevelle Malibu 350 in 1993. It was a very basic and common car in 1972, 1982, and even 1993. Nice clean lines, simple, fast, fun. That's why you can't even touch a nice 68-72 6cyl version now for under $10k. Times have changed but those basic tastes and needs have not. Just go outside GM's Detroit headquarters some night and look for those goofy, winged Civics and Camrys, you'll see my point. Cheap, efficient, simple cars....They'll add all that goofy stuff themselves, just give them the most modernized drivetrain you've got.

To Al Giguere Jr,

The center mounted cluster is a bit different, I will give you that, but speaking as an ION owner, and as such someone who talks frequently to other ION owners, this has become the prefered location for most who own this car. It's not as out of the ordinery as it used to be. Most of the Scion cars as well as the Mini Cooper use center gauge clusters. I also appreciate the smaller steering wheel in the ION which allows me to have the wheel in exactly the right position without bumping it with my legs.

The center gauges take a few minutes to get used to. It's not a big deal. Plus they are easy to read, and their location means no obstructions to my view.

Hi:

I was driving a Geo Prizm for the last 9 years and totalled the car recently. I was looking for a car that seats 5, has high seating, gives good mileage (around 35 MPG), has decent features - powered windows, door locks, remote entry, air bags, side air bags, traction control and ABS. I seriously looked at VUE and it does NOT have these features and the mileage was low. By the time one adds these features as options cost was way too high and I settled on Scion XB.
I would like to buy Saturn cars/cross over vehicles but am not being offered competetive vehicles. You talk about all the new products, please make sure they have all the features that customers are looking for and are also reasonably priced. If VUE offered what Scion XB had at a slightly higher price and highay mileage around 34 MPG I would have gone for VUE.

Another customer interested in purchasing a Saturn but could not find the vehicle with required features at the price.

Us baby-boomer gearheads are not going to live forever. Bring back the camaro now!

We recently bought one of GMs best kept secrets - a Saturn Vue Red Line v6. Perfect size, nice power with good fuel mileage, smooth and quiet. I don't know what Saturn must do to let potential buyers know about this car, but perhaps the showroom traffic generated by the Saturn Sky will help.

Doug Perkins:

Perhaps GM intends to keep the Saturn Vue Redline a secret. After all, its best attribute—the powerful and fuel efficient V6—isn't even built by GM. In my opinion, the purchasing of engines from another manufacturer suggests that GM's own are inadequate. I don't believe this to be true, but such is consumer perception.

There are many comments on the inferiority of overhead valve engines relative to overhead cam engines. I purchased new 2 brand new Honda Accord EX’s and 2 brand new Honda Civic EX’s. I currently own a 2001 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 SS Convertible that I also purchased new. I think the small block Chevrolet engine is much better than any of the Honda engines. There are many comments on the sound of overhead valve engines being inferior to overhead cam engines. I think the sound of the small block Chevrolet engine is superior to any of the Honda engines. In fact, I always thought the Honda engines sounded metallic and whiney under acceleration.

Maybe this is a matter of opinion, but one thing that factually can not be disputed is that GM has been conservative in rating their engines horsepower. This can not be said for the Japanese manufacturers. According to the 8/17/2005 Detroit News article, “Toyota, Honda inflated claims of engine muscle; new test force automakers to come clean with buyers,” certain manufacturers inflated horsepower ratings as much as 20 horsepower while GM tended to under report horsepower. It is curious this story has gotten such little exposure. Given the anti-American bias to the American media, the Big 3 would have been raked over the coals if they over promised horsepower in this manner.

Eric, GM seems to be reporting the horsepower their cars have at the drive wheels (Where you ultimatly feel it) rather than at the crank. Case in point: Many V8 GM F Body cars were showing the rated 305hp at the drivewheels when placed on a dyno. This means that hp at the crank, where most automakers rate their engines, was 330 or better depending on driveline losses. I honestly wouldn't be suprised to learn that a 6.0L GTO was actually putting its rated 400hp out at the wheels. It certainly feels much faster than a WS6 Trans-Am, which is very difficult to do as that was a very powerful car in it's own right.

Back to Saturn: I do agree that the redline vehicles have not really been featured in advertising much. The VUE redline has been featured in exactly one TV ad to my knowledge, and the ION redline made brief cameos in some GM full line ads, but has not been featured in it's own ad. For all of the bad parts of a marketing driven business strategy, I am suprised that there are so many missed opportunities. Most people don't even know that a hot rod ION coupe even exists.

As to the current ION not selling well, again, it's the "warm and fuzzy" marketing coupled with resistence from SL fans and buyers. The latter is more attributed to a lack of a new model for entirely to long than any particular shortfall of the ION, which in my opinion is nicer, faster, better handling and is a much better value than a comparable SL was in its final year of production.

I dont know about many of you, but I work in the reconditioning business and I see Saturns as well as other vehicles on a daily basis, in used fashion, with wear and tear. Let me tell you this0 GM CAN make better cars....but even now, they dont think they NEED to. That is why Saturn has slipped...word is out that they, along with the GM mainstream manufacture a sub-standard product. The US consumer is getting more educated by the day, part in parcel due to the web.
The Saturns with 40, 50 even 60k dont even hold a candle to the Asian and most European makes with regards to sturdiness, trim, mechanicals et al.
Lets face it- Saturn, even with the Sky and other decent looking vehicles, is ultimately doomed unless they actually make vehicles in a quality fashion..