A Little Well-Deserved Recognition

Here's a cnn.com link:

http://money.cnn.com/2007/08/08/autos/jdpa_dependability/index.htm?postversion=2007080909

This is good news. Domestic makes have been long underdogs in the reliability department. It is a milestone that GM should treasure and use it as a lessons learned subject. If Buick can do it, why can't the rest of the GM lineup? I am confident that GM will deliver. I am counting on you GM! If all goes well, my next purchase will be a GM vehicle instead of an import.

This is great about Buick but what about the other GM brands. Notice that Saturn and Chevy is far down the list. Need to apply the same quality in all brands. Quality should not only be for the higher end cars. For example, Honda, is lower price car but still has high quality. I keep thinking about purchasing Saturn Aura but looking at the rating, it makes me question that thinking.

Congratulations! I love the look of the Enclave (although I am a coupe and convertible guy) and can't wait to see what Buick unveils next. I love the Velite and Riviera concepts and hope someday soon they are produced. I will buy one immediately.

Congratulations guys!

Congratulations. This lends creditability to the old Buick motto, "When better cars are built, Buick will build them."

Mr Bunnell:
The quality of the new GM products like the next generation Silverado is excellent, but I think you guys have a way to go with the design on products like the cobalt. That car can not compete with the Honda Civic. It is at least two generations behind the Honda.

My interest is in the Pontiac Division and the next generation GTO. There is some talk going around now that there may be a next generation of this car. I hope that this design will do justice to the nameplate. The new GTO must have unique sheetmetal and appeal to both the old GTO fans and younger people who have no experience with the car. It has to have the best drive train GM has to offer. Please dont put a V6 in it and call it GTO - that will kill it. If you insist on offering a 6 cylinder engine call that model G9 or something. Also, please dont just take the G8 and make a coupe out of it. The last generation GTO should prove to you guys that this strategy wont work. Anyway, that is my two cents worth. I will bw awaiting the introduction of the concept at this years show in Detroit. Dont let me down.

Great Job! Keep up the Good Work!

The Enclave is a stunner! Hope to see an Excelle and Regal some time soon!

Make sure to keep the quality up for the cars that you are actually selling now.

Congratulations for Buick in first and Caddy in third. Tying Lexus is not for anyone. And also make the most part for the American majority in the top-5 of a study recently dominated by Japanese brands is a great achievment.
But you must make this effort spread through the other brands, because the only other GM brand above average is Oldsmobile, which is sadly defunct (you should never phased out such a valuable brand, as you're learning now). The remaining brands have all potential to be in the tops too.

For example, Pontiac is above Ford and very near the average, but GMC and Chevy should need special attention, not to mention Hummer and Saturn. Maybe the last one will improve its results due to the opelization of its lineup. And a red alert is flashing in Trollhättan. Hey, you must raise Saab from the bottom of the table. What kind of positive media you want to have by luxury cars that must be fixed more often that a Volkswagen immediatly up the charts? Hey, you must bring your Swedes to at least a Oldsmobile level of reliability or it will become a very dark spot in GM's portifolio. Look at Land Rover in last and what does this thing does to the whole Ford's reputation. Land Rover and its always-fixing SUVs are better known in the world than the unbreakable Mercurys. And well known because of the fixing issues, as we can see in the UK J. D. Power's studies. So, time for you to make a better Saab or sell the brand to another and focus Caddy as the only luxury world brand of the group and improving it until overtakes Lexus.
Other good thing that I noticed in the study is that Buick, by tying Lexus, can't be phased out anytime, unless you want to lose a faithful group of consumers in North America and China. Well, if you wanted the Tri-Shield to be American Lexus, you did it.

Good job. Lexus is indeed Buick's main target. I hope to see serious direct competitors to the IS, ES, GS, and LS in future Buicks.

congratulations you know you should use this in marketing and make it good a start for selling BUICK in other markets the middle east is a good market for luxury cars

This is an excellent, and expected, result. Buick has generally clung to proven technology (3800 V6, 4-speed Hydramatic) for use over a larger percentage of its line-up than have most automakers and, moreover, than has any other GM brand.

Not without continuous improvement, of course; this study, among others, does give Buick some kudos for bolting a supercharger to an engine without suffering reliability woes. That's a success story in itself.

This study goes back 3 years but, even then, a higher percentage of Buick models were being built with the 3800 V6 than were models of any sister brand.

Plus, one must consider that Buick has a relatively small line-up, vis a vis even Cadillac, not to mention Chevrolet and Pontiac, which dabble in many segments with a rather more dizzying array of engines; transmissions, and architectures, etc.

Buick also has two of GM's best plants (highest ranked for both quality and productivity) building two (previously, three) of its models: Lucernes/ LeSabres/ Park Avenues are/ were built at Hamtramck, shared with Cadillac, while LaCrosses/ Regals are/ were produced at Oshawa.

It could be suggested that the Caddy plant has had a major impact on Buick quality over the years, but this J.D. Power trend began at Buick back in 1989, when the Flint-built LeSabre was ranked best in its class. That Flint plant had enjoyed some serious investment in the '80s, and it built Buicks and only Buicks. It's a real pity they shut Buick City. When former Buick General Manager Ed Mertz left, there was no one to give one of GM's more quality-oriented assets the support it needed.

Either way, the transfer to Hamtramck seems to have gone well.

Without starting a pushrod/ OHC debate, a Buick with a 3800 under the hood has to rank among one of the most solid used-car buys on the market (Series II plastic-intake-manifold issue notwithstanding). This isn't the first study to bear that out, and it won't be the last.

No, using an engine that has its roots in 1961 is not going to garner wows from the press (although Ward's 10 Best featured the motor at least twice in the late '90s).

Yet, if we're honest, much has changed since the first block was cast, and the motor has certainly proven its durability and efficiency time and time again.

Flint Engine #2 will produce the 3800 for another year or so. Much though all the reasons for the decision to can it are clear enough, there are no doubt those who will be sad to see it go.

As a GM stockholder this is great news. I've always felt that Buick is the soul of GM, and am glad to see the brand making a turnarouns with newer models Lucerne and Enclave looking hot. There are still a few pieces missing, maybe another 2 door Regal or Wildcat and something a little smaller than the Lacrosse.

So what now, kill the Lucerne and LaCrosse and put these old relics back on life support?

Frankly, I wouldn't be puffing my chest on this announcement. I'd be embarassed that you didn't beat a couple tired old designs with your latest efforts. Proof again that the beancounters that are tasked with taking every last cent out of the parts that they buy not only negatively impacts you in sales, it also impacts quality and reliability. When will you guys ever start focusing on the product again? The Enclave can't get it done all by itself - you need to examine what has worked well with the Enclave and then apply the lessons learned to the rest of the line.

Century and Regal.... give me a break.

I think there's a misconception about JD Power results. Everybody needs to keep in mind that these were 2004 vehicles - way before GM cranked out some of the best quality improvements. That means the vehicles you buy today are miles ahead of this 04 comparison.

Congratulations and well done! I hope you guys will beat Lexus next year--do that, and we'll all be winners!

You guys rock!

Tyler said:

"Good job. Lexus is indeed Buick's main target. I hope to see serious direct competitors to the IS, ES, GS, and LS in future Buicks."

Trying to match Lexus, model for model, will throw a wrench into the whole B-P-GMC dealer setup just completed. GM and Buick need fewer models, all superb, not more watered down ones. Buick needs to follow up with a replacement LaCross that is slightly larger, much more economical and better than the Lexus ES350-for less money. Focus on improving the three current models before adding any new ones. Maybe in 2013 or so a G6-like Buick can be introduced, if there is a market to be exploited. Go slowly, and use Pontiac to round out the line. Great job so far though.

Mr. Bunnell,
Buick needs buzz. Any chance of giving us a tease of what Buick will have at NAIAS?

"I think it’s especially important to point out how industry experts see us."

right... cuz it's the industry experts that you are selling to. not the actual consumers that make up a much larger portion of your auto sales.

Great job, Buick and GM! I'm a blogger on another GM enthusiast site, (err GMI?). I must admit, when we first heard the 'Amercan Lexus talk we all doubted it. Well, this is proof of your hard work, vision and passion. Congratulations! A tie is great, but undisputed No.1 is next. I'm passionate about General Motors. Although, I do believe we would be better off, perception wise, if the LaCrosse we all saw as a concept made it to production.
Exterior design now needs to be the focus. The reliability is there, now let's focus on exterior style. The Enclave is great. Setting new standards. A "tag-team" of the Velite and Enclave in the same model year could have done for Buick, what happened to Caddy a few years back. Now we need the Velite and Zeta GNX. Exteriors peek the public interest, and interiors seal the deal. (This revolution is not being televised).
Congratulations!

Well Done! I'm 38 and would really rather have a Buick.

My '99 LeSabre has been a very fine car. It has 121,000 miles and is still very dependable.

"We have more work to do. Next year, we want to beat Lexus." - That's exactly what I was thinking, and you will beat Lexus! Your Enclave is also the best-looking crossover out there.

Dear Jim
You got the dependibility down, now all you have to do is get rest of it right. By that I mean the styling, the performance the ride the handling the gas milage.
People do not buy vehicles on depenabilty alone. If they did you would be racking up the sales, but you are not. You need to be offering them something to ignite their passion, like the china Park Avenue and Rivera.
I prefere the velite verson to be the new Rivera,in both hardtop and convertable but thats my taste. I can gurantee you if you offered the american buying public these exciting vehicles with the fore mention atributes, your sales will improve dramitaclly.
It may take a little time for the younger generation to get used to the idea of association buick with excitement. But build great looking vehicle thats meet or beat the compertition and they will come around.But if you continue to build bland vehicles no matter how well you build them you will suffer the same fate as oldsmobile.

Great work to ALL those at GM that made this happen.

Hi Jim,

I just want to congratulate you and everyone in GM for this achievment.I think you will agree with me that if this recognition is a proof of hard work you guys have been doing down there, I frankly believe that it should also be for GM a proof that GM can make good and reliable cars.

By the way, I want you know that I am actually in the market for a new car and no matter what, my new car should be a GM (Pontiac G8 or 2008 Caddy CTS). I'm sure that, like me,there are plenty who are waiting for your new products. products.

I'm very happy to hear about this - but you're right - much work still lies ahead. It's no surprise that these Buicks are reliable - using the same technology that's been around for nearly 30 years. Lexus remains at #1 in reliability despite continually being extremely innovative and "relentlessly pursuing" high technology.

As mentioned above, now you need to get the rest right. Lexus drivers aren't going to jump in their vehicles and starting heading to their local Buick dealership now. Can Buick be the Domestic Lexus? Yes, I absolutely believe so. But you're not there yet.

Why am I pissing in your Wheaties? Because I don't want you to start resting on your laurels now that you're "#1 in reliability" as surely the new commercials will take advantage of - Which They Should! However, it'll surely mislead the viewers into believing it's "this year's" products you're talking about...

Do us all a very big favor... Consider this fact.. It took MANY years for Americans to ditch domestic vehicles and replace them with foreign ones. It didn't happen over-night. Why did everyone flock away? It surely wasn't because the foreign vehicles were "just as good" as domestic ones. It was because they were "better".

That is exactly what it's going to take to win American foreign-car buyers BACK. You cannot simply build a product that's "just as good". You must build a BETTER product.

Bringing in a bottom-of-the-line Honda Accord and Toyota Camry and placing it next to a top-of-the-line Saturn isn't going to fool enough people to save GM..

You can take that to the bank...

Congratulations,

My first car was a 69 Camaro, so I think that has biased me towards being a GM guy. That being said, I agree with the sentiment that N/A auto manufactures get a bad rap when it comes to reliability. It seems that many reviews mention raise the issue of reliability in one way or another when it comes to N/A cars. Often these questions (doubts) are not raised when testing European or Japanese autos. I remember being puzzled once about the double standard after a review of the new Jetta and wondered why there were no such caveats.

Congratulations for these great results, now, I'd like to see the sales improve too! Please, make Buicks that enthusiasts like me will buy! I like reliable cars but I like them even more when they are powerful, fun to drive and nice to look at. Buick now needs to concentrate on these things!

I hope I'll see soon brand new Buick Wildcat, Riviera, Sportwagon and Gran Sport models!

Remember, the facts can change in an instant, but reputations and perceptions take a very long time to change. GM made reliability changes in the past few years, but reliability takes a while to prove itself, and because GM's reliability was inferior to the import brands for so long, people still assume that the case is the same. You can't blame them, as the average buying public depends on word-of-mouth, so when the Joneses say they've had good luck with their 6 year old Camry, and the Smiths had bad luck with their 6 year old Chevy, favor goes to the imports. The good news is that with a few more years of continued reliable construction and a few more years of record setting recalls by Toyota, the trend will reverse. Persevere GM!

Also, I know this is beating a dead horse, but since someone brought up Buick-Pontiac-GMC, I will say it again: brand distinction really needs to be solidified. It seems like 90% of GM's cars are rebadged versions of another division's cars. Why do we need to have the Aura, Malibu, G6, and Buick version of the G6 as one commenter suggested? They're so similar I don't see why we need all these different versions confusing the public and deluding the sales numbers for each model? What is the purpose of having the Cobalt and G5? Or the Outlook and the Acadia? Or the Tahoe and the Yukon? Or the Silverado and the Sierra? Or the Colorado and the Canyon? Or the Trailblazer and the Envoy? I could go on, but I think my point is clear. Sharing platforms is all well and good, but there just aren't enough distinctions to justify all the models?

This is music to this 36 year old proud 2006 LaCrosse CXS owner's ears. My one comment is with the expected return of the Regal nameplate for the midsize segment with the next generation. People will look at he survey in a few years and wonder where those reliable LaCrosses and Lucernes went. I am of course hoping to upgrade to a zeta chassis Park Avenue in late 2012 when I will trade in my LaCrosse. 2013 the latest.

I just was browsing more ratings at jdpower.com and there are further GM-vehicles showing a strong performance. To me it clearly demonstrates again, that all these rumors about supposedly poor quality of GM-products is nothing but pure prejudice, as it used to be with Opel some years ago, over here. It's too sad, that some people still believe in that garbage, told by so-called car-experts. It's remarkable how GM is beating these high-priced and praised European imports very often. The conclusion for me: My next car will be a US-built GM-vehicle again. If it's not available regularly over here, I might get it from an import-specialist.

Ah, but before we all go saying how wonderful it is Buick TIED Lexus in 2004, let us remember actual buyer demographics. Outside of the Internet blogging community, Buick buyers are still the oldest, and they drive the least. The Lexus buyers tend to be younger and drive a lot more. If you only drive 500 miles a year, your Buick should (but not always, based on the experience of a friend of mine) not be in the shop that much. But if you drive your Buick 25,000 miles in a year's time, chances are the level of quality and satisfaction will sink to the level of all GM products (and that's still not very good, as the very same JD Powers report clearly indicates).

Once upon a time, GM used to be a great company. It produced great cars that lasted for years. Then came the 1970s to the 2000s, and GM was producing pure, unadulterated lousy products (no one is running around denying that, not even GM in its ill-fated "mea culpa" advertisements a few years ago begging baby boomers to forget everything that happened to them when they bought GM products before).

So in reality, we need to take these JD Power results with a huge grain of salt. Consider who really buys Buicks and how much they actually drive in a year. Then think. It's not such a good result.

As a retired GM of Canada employee it is great to hear that the Buick brand has received the J.D. Power quality rating on a level with Lexus.

What I don't understand is GM'S reluctance to promote the brand.You hardly see any advertising and marketing of the brand. It's almost like it doesn't exist.My wife has a 2006 Lucerne and it is a wonderfull vehicle. There is a real story to tell and not for just those 60 years of age and over.

I don't understand GM'S reluctance to promote the brand.

It's my understanding that 10 years ago the anuual sales of the GM brand in North America was one million units and today it is 250000 units. Hard to understand.

Wayne Routly
A caring GM retiree

Great job guys, Keep up the good work!

Jim Bunnell said:

(By the way, “ppH” stands for “problems reported per hundred vehicles; this year’s industry average was 216.)

Mr Bunnell,

Let's look at this statistic for what it's worth: J.D. Power & Associates uses reported problems.

With the average buying age of a Buick seemingly being well into the 60's, are all the problems actually being reported? Or does J.D. Power & Associates somehow adjust their statistics for the age of the would-be reporter?

To put this as delicately and respectfully as I can, would someone who can drive down the highway without noticing their left turn signal is blinking, notice and report all the little malfunctions that might exist in their car?

Regards,

Gary Dikkers

Huge achievement. Great job.

Thanks, GM, for proving what many of us have known for some time--that you can build cars virtually as good or better than many foreign brands. To echo other comments, my '00 Park Avenue Ultra has 162,000 miles, and I still drive it 100-150 miles each day at cruising speeds of 70-75 MPH with total confidence in its' quality and an incredible ride.

Now, just one more favor to ask of the GM boys and girls: give us 'got to have' cars. No more Impalas that look like Toyota clones; you were on the right track with the previous version Impala with the 'heritage' round tailights; now the exterior of the Impala looks like just another Toy/Hon/Hyundai clone.

And, what is up with not having any fun two-door coupes or convertibles? Please; make an affordable two-door coupe and convertible that people can afford to buy AND real people can get in and out of! Surely, Chrysler and Ford are not the only people in town that know how to build a ragtop and muscle car?

Buick has been known for great quality for a number of years, GM needs to incorporate this message into its advertising more.

If you want to be in tune with your customer base, eliminate the word "former" in front of Century and Regal. How about a new Grand National as well? Rename the Lucerne, call it LeSabre instead.

Jim, I am impressed with what you have written in the past about Pontiac and the direction it should go, a first step would be to can the alphabet soup.

I checked out the Buick Enclave on a recent Saturday at Dan Tobin Buick in Dublin, Ohio. I was very impressed with what I saw as compared to previous GM models. The dashboard was beautifully sculpted and it was a real credible effort. I thought there was still wayyyyyyy too much cheap-looking hard plastic on the doors and seat backs, but over all, it was a significant improvement over anything else I've seen coming from GM in a while.

I do not doubt the quality and reliability of Buick in general as it has been a fairly reliable marque for quiet some time now.

That said, you can probably get the general consensus from the many comments here that while quality might be good, Buick is still sorely lacking in product for their intended target consumer. Not to say that there hasn't been movement in that direction; the Enclave is a definite plus in that regard. Simply put, Buick needs a upmarket sedan that delivers sophistication, modern design, competitive features, and originality in order to start attracting some of those consumers who are currently buying Lexus.

While the Lucerne and Lacrosse might be good cars, they aren't what I'd call exciting or even that attractive. They're typical of what was popular in late 90's, early 2000's domestic car design: bulbous, rounded, and plain looking cars with uninteresting trim.

You're 90% there already: the quality is there, but at least for your sedans, the styling is way off target. Watch what the 20-30somethings are buying and develop a car that will appeal to them. Honestly, if you were to make something that were at least as attractive as some of the Lexus or Acura models, you'd have your sales.

"To put this as delicately and respectfully as I can, would someone who can drive down the highway without noticing their left turn signal is blinking, notice and report all the little malfunctions that might exist in their car?"

Gary Dikkers

Oh please already, Gary Dikkers. Did you work hard to develop your outstanding ability to put a negative spin on everything, or does it simply come natural for you?

My 1999 LeSabre has been so reliable, these JD Power results don't surprise me.

I'm 38 by the way, so I know "when my left turn signal is blinking".

Now all you have to do is give us a stunning sedan/coupe/convert and you'll be set.

First, congratulations on the excellent results!

Second, you REALLY know you're doing it right when those who have downed truly prodigious amounts of Toyota/Honda/Nissan Kool-Aid are now forced into claiming that Buick is only up at the top because Buick owners are too senile and sedentary to report or recognize problems.

At some point, even they will realize how utterly moronic this assertion is...

This may be stating the obvious, but...

I think that each GM brand should have its own well-balanced, well-designed line-up. Think of your own Opel, or other manufacturers (VW, Renault, Volvo, Honda).

Take Opel for example:

1. Micro (Corsa)
2. Small Sedan/Hatch (Astra)
3. Mid-sized sedan (Vectra)
4. Flagship (Signum)
5. Little sports car (GT)
6. Convertible (Astra TT / Tigra)
7. People Mover (Meriva)
8. SUV (Antara)

Every GM brand should have its own mix of these 7 categories. Vehicles can certaintly share platforms and drivetrains, but models have to look and feel different from GMC to Chevy to Pontiac. Buick is no exception.

1. (Skip Micro for Buick)
2. Small Sedan (?)
3. Mid-sized Sedan (LaCrosse)
4. Flagship (Lucerne)
5. Sports Car (?)
6. Convertible (?)
7. People Mover (Rainier / Rendezvous)
8. SUV (Enclave / Terraza)

Notice the GAPS in the line-up? No sporty car. No luxo-small sedan. No convertible. Too much People Mover and too much SUV! Riveria for coupe / convertible car. When that ALPHA RWD small platform comes out soon, use that for a small Buick sedan. How about a GN? (Seriously, we all know how hard it would be to relaunch this one -- too many enthusiasts with too many bad ideas out there).

Best of luck!

"...would someone who can drive down the highway without noticing their left turn signal is blinking, notice and report all the little malfunctions that might exist in their car?"

Hi Gary,
Hi Michael

many years ago I started an apprenticeship at an Opel-dealership (had to stop it for health-reasons). Referring to my experience, the driver's age doesn't have anything to do with the recognition of malfunctions. Even the elderly Ladies and Gentlemen often proved as the more critical customers (like my Father, either), being carefully considering, how they spend their money. You could also put it this way: Elderly drivers are the more experienced drivers and they might have their reasons to purchase Buicks (or Oldsmobiles at earlier times). I think it's absolutely inappropriate to consider the majority of elderly drivers as deaf or blind.

Michael, as you consider GM's quality in relation to JD Power as "still not very good": What would you say about (e.g.) Mercedes or VW, which fall far behind GM's ratings? BTW, Cadillac performed pretty good, either. Better than the high priced/praised competition from Europe.

gtjeff said: "Buick has been known for great quality for a number of years, GM needs to incorporate this message into its advertising more."

gtjeff,

Yes, and long ago Buick once had a corporate motto of, "When better cars are built, Buick will build them."

I'm sure Buick had a reason they stopped using that motto. My guess it was probably the day the beancounters became more influential at GM than the engineers.

Best,

Gary Dikkers

All the Buicks that scored high in this survey are going to be cancelled. Only GM can take a success and turn it into a failure.
The cars in question are built either on the W-body(Lacrosse) or G-body(Lucerne). Buick will lose its reliability advantage when they switch over to the unproven Zeta platform.
Buick is the last GM division to use all-American
platforms and they outscore the whole industry. Unfortunately, that will change soon. It took a long time for Buick and GM to get to this point with these platforms. Now they will be cancelled.

With the Zeta platform GM could be sitting on one of the biggest bombs ever.

Shame.............

I was thrilled to hear this news...unfortunately, I'm afraid it doesn't matter to most people running out to buy Toyotas, Lexuses and even Hyundais instead of GM cars, but keep trying, and maybe the tide will turn. I have an off topic question: Is GM doing anything to celebrate its 100th anniversary in 2008? I would love to come to Michigan to celebrate this incredible milestone, but I can't find any information about planned events. Are there any? I certainly hope so! Thanks...

I am expecting that Buick should best Lexus next year. The one advantage with GM having a plethora of brands is you can target and focus them to achieve results in a much more nimble way with competitions such as this one.

I think we also need a word on product continuity here, and the need for evolution not revolution in the product line. Let's just hope GM gets this message and plans to have the Enclave around for the long term as we hope the other recognizable names like Park Avenue will have if and when they return via the China connection.

In short...

I for one knew the value of what you had in the Buick name and franchise even when the media and this blog were not.

Let Buick/China follow the Saturn/Europe example but on the luxury plain and we got ourselves a winner folks.

It's all thanks to Heather W. Way to go!

We can all agree the Enclave is the best Buick ever, and with the exception of the STS and CTS GM's best vehicle.

It's great to see good and bad comments, but it would be great to see comments from the indifferent on GM.

My concern: This new well deserved honor will bring some people into Buick showrooms but they might not like what they see: my dealer doesn't have a single Enclave, and a bunch of Lacrosses, and a few Lucernes. It might be time to add a few more models to Buick. If you can flood Saturn with models, surely Buick can get something. I think the g-6 should be dropped, redesigned, upscaled and made a Buick. Does the G-6 really fit into a "performance brand?" God knows Buick desperately needs a convertible.

When poorly designed cars are built, Buick will build them.

Buick Diesel said: "Oh please already, Gary Dikkers. Did you work hard to develop your outstanding ability to put a negative spin on everything, or does it simply come natural for you?"

PacerX said: "...claiming that Buick is only up at the top because Buick owners are too senile and sedentary to report or recognize problems."

Gereon said: "I think it's absolutely inappropriate to consider the majority of elderly drivers as deaf or blind."

I'm not claiming Buick drivers are too senile, or too deaf, or too blind. What I am claiming is that one must take the JD Power numbers with a grain of salt because they collect the data for different cars from completely different sample populations.

In the science of statistics and sampling its important to collect the data randomly and from unbiased samples. However, JD Power can't do that because the population of people that own and drive Buicks is different from the population that owns -- for example -- Ferraris, Scions, or pickup trucks

Let's be honest, what is the chance that the people JD Power survey who own Buicks represents the same demographic as the people who own other brands of cars?

We all know the Buick demographic is one of the oldest of any car brand. That demographic has different perceptions and will see and report things to JD Power differently than a younger demographic. In short, the data they collect from different demographics will be skewed, and can't be compared to each other.

Unless JD Power uses some advanced statistical methods of adjusting data from all demographics to the same standardized norm, it means little to compare the car statistics they collect from one demographic against those they collect from another another completely different demographic.

Customer satisfaction is an ambiguous and abstract concept, and the actual state of satisfaction and perception of quality will necessarily vary from demographic to demographic.

The only way to evaluate auto quality that has true value is not to poll the people who own them, but would be to have unbiased, independent teams of trained technical inspectors pull cars off automobile assembly lines at random and put them through detailed and rigorous quality inspections.

Best,

Gary Dikkers

noddles said:

"We can all agree the Enclave is the best Buick ever, and with the exception of the STS and CTS GM's best vehicle."

I don't agree with that and I'm sure I'm not alone!

Maybe it is the best Buick currently available in North Amnerica (the continent where people seem to have only short term memory!) but it's still far from being the best Buick ever! (unless you think that Buick started to make cars at the same time as Saturn did!)

And don't forget the current Park Avenue...

Dan Neil did a VERY positive review of the new Vue in yesterday's LA Times, with appropriate references to his past comments about GM management.

Alas, 18 mpg doesn't get it for us however.

Being the owner of a 1999 Buick Century, I would like to congratulate GM on this award. However, I would warn GM not to get too complacent and take this award and what it stands for with a grain of salt. The Buick Century that I paid good money for and factorie ordered happens to be one the few lemons. So far this year (yes, 2007), I have had to replace the gauge cluster, radio, brakes, tires (okay the brakes the tires are wear and tear), the engine misfires and does not issue any trouble codes, the daytime running lights have stopped working, the automatic headlights are no longer automatic. On top of routine maintenance, I have spent over $1000 every year since the warranty "expired" just to repair things that should not break.
I am also one that brings your average age of Buick buyers down. I am in my mid-forties. As much as I enjoy the quiet smooth ride of my, and every other Buick I've been in, my next car will not be a Buick.

But congratulations on the award anyways.

Gary and Michael,

If you want to open up the can of worms with regards to the propensity of respective owners to notice / complain about problems the you really should do so thoroughly.

Behaviorist commonly find that the more one invest in making a decision the more they will likely defend it. This observation also applies to the purchase of automobiles. I would suspect that many people whom buy Lexus's or BMW's would do so partially for the 'prestige' of doing so. As such, the intellectual capital they expended will be defended post factum.

I have seen this many times. IPods for example, the hardware is no better than average, yet loyalist will insist that the hardware is above average.

Comments suggesting that Buick owners might be to old or stupid or nonsense and insulting! Considering the points I raised above, I would wager that Buick owners would be more likely to be honest in there opinions as they would be less 'invested' in having errors reflect on themselves.

Great job to Buick! I would make sure that you get some commercials out stating this tie occurred...you need to reach out beyond the car buffs in this blog. And please bring the China Park Ave to America!

I feel honored to be "lumped" together with Gary Dickers, whose opinion I often concur with in these blogs. And I stand by my suspicion of the JD Powers ranking (based on what an old client of mine once described as the "buying and selling of JD Powers ranking." In short, they can (and are) manipulated to a degree. Did GM manipulate these rankings for Buick? I highly doubt it. The management might be the epitome of arrogance, but it really needs to win at something, so let it be JD Powers 2004 edition.

The point that seemed to be lost until a late post is a simple one (much like the onese from Beken)--look at how many late model cars are in the service bays at your local dealer, and then tell me how much GM has improved.

I made mention of GM's infamous "mea culpa" advertising a few years back. I loved it--this was the first time GM was absolutely honest with all the customers it had alienated. I was ready to buy GM again. But then GM unceremoniously killed the ads because, well, the new cars it was selling weren't any better than the old ones we were supposed to forget. Sigh...

Congratulations, Buick, on being tied with Lexus for quality. But it's really comparing Apples and PCs (now THOSE were billiant ads, and surprisingly relevant to this thread).

Glen said: "Comments suggesting that Buick owners might be to old or stupid or nonsense and insulting!"

Glen,

No one has said the population sample of people who own Buicks is stupid.

What I have said is that the population of people who own Buicks is different than the population of people who own other brands of cars, and that different demographics perceive and report problems differently.

Since there is very little correlation between the differing demographics of people who own different brands of cars, it is understandably difficult to correlate and draw meaningful conclusions from the statistics JD Power collects for the car companies.

Glenn said: "Behaviorist commonly find that the more one invest in making a decision the more they will likely defend it. I would suspect that many people whom buy Lexus's or BMW's would do so partially for the 'prestige' of doing so."

I agree completely. People who buy expensive, imported luxury cars do it mostly for emotional reasons -- i.e. they think they gain some measure of status or prestige by doing so.

Having invested in that status symbol and seemingly demonstrated their superior buying power, discriminating taste, and sophistication, they are more likely to under report and deny problems with the car. They are saying, "No car that I am smart and rich enough to buy, could possibly have anything wrong with it." (Admitting problems with their car, would cast doubt on their capability as a discriminating auto buyer.)

I'd like to know how JD Power adjusts for such factors -- if they do at all.

Best regards,

Gary Dikkers

How about dealer service and satisfaction. I know you achieved the quality and dependability issue but will you be able to continue year after year and CEO after CEO. We Americans seem to over gratify ourselves with huge bonuses and forget about customer.

I could never fathom how GM takes all these JD Powers surveys as a measure of their vehicles reliability. There is truth in PPH numbers but only over a short period of time. Put 100,000 miles on a car and then do some surveys. Add up your repair bills and then compare to Toyota and Lexus!
I own a 2003 Impala and also a 2003 Corolla..all I can say is that its not even a contest in long term reliability and quality.
The domestic automakers are losing market share every year and there has to be a reason. I guess they wont realize that until its too late.
I am selling my 2003 Impala and my next vehicle will be a Toyota Camry.

According to Forbes, the average age of a Buick buyer in 2004 was 62, the oldest in the industry. (Source: http://www.forbes.com/free_forbes/2004/0329/062.html)

I think this is great news for Buick and I have recently made the switch (or at least trying to) to GM/Buick. I have on order a 2008 Enclave. What I believe is the next step is revap the order process. I currently am aware of customers that want to be Buick owners, but they can not get an order built. I have been waiting over 7 weeks without my order being sent for production, I am only at the allocation point. I know others that ordered in April and May that are still at 1100 order status. The whole dealer allocation process really needs to be looked into and orders should be built by order date, not by when a dealer gets an allocation. Buick is failing on this point and has buyers waiting that are now debating canceling orders and going with something else. This has been the most frustrating process for me and many others. Great, the vehicles are realiable and there are many that want these vehicles, but Buick can not execute and get our orders out to us. I really want this vehicle, but I am not willing to wait over 10-15 weeks to get a vehicle.

So why can;'t I get a new Enclave I ordered two months ago?? They want to sell Buicks, and then tell me they dont know when it will be built.

I don't know why people continually say that GM's are unreliable and imports are "perfect" even in the 90s. I simply don't buy this BS. The only cars I have ever owned during my adult life have been GMs. I owned a (well used) 1981 Z-28 Camaro in college and have had (3) brand new Pontiacs since 1994. I have had VERY good reliability out of these vehicles and with the exception of the "plasticky" interior of my Pontiacs, would put them up against ANYTHING from Toyonda or Mazdyundai. I haven't spent a dime more in repair on my Pontiacs than my in-laws have on their Hondas. It amazes me how when someone hears of problems with someone's domestic vehicle, all heck breaks loose. But when people have problems with their imports they just say "Well she's been good, but you have to spend a little every now and then to keep her in top shape". Why is it that EVERY little recall by the big three is BLASTED all over the major media, but when Toyota or Honda have a MAJOR recall of multiple MILLIONS of vehicles, you have to search to find it on page 27 of the business section?!@?#! This kind of BIASED informational propaganda makes me MAD!!!!! WAY TO GO GM AND BUICK! We have a 2008 fully loaded Enclave on order and I CAN'T WAIT to see the face of every Lexus RX driver that I pass as their mouth drops open and they wonder why their precious car looks so bland and boring now!

Maybe I am not your typical Buick owner -- 38-year-old mom. Before now, I have never owned a GM vehicle. I have owned both American and foreign-made vehicles. But now Buick has wooed me with the Enclave. My beautiful new car arrived in only 5 short weeks, and I have been very happy with it ever since. Honestly, I never considered a GM vehicle before now. If my pleasure with the Enclave continues, GM will become first on my list for future purchases. I am happy to see GM celebrate some successes, and I hope it continues.

I started checking the FYI blog when it came up here and sombody referred to the "flex fuel" issue being discussed there.

Check it today. Of all of the posts left up, there is one comment on one of them, about the lovely photos of glorious past GM cars.

Maybe the thing to do is to just euthanize it for lack of interest.

Not to mention how long it has been since anything new has been posted here.

I'm still mad because you didn't build the Kappa Nomad. Even my nieces and nephews than haven't seen a real nomad think my 1:18th model is really cool.

I am considering the Buick Enclave. The exterior/interior is everything I am looking for. The problem: I test drove one overnight and the best gas mileage was 13mpg and it did not matter if I was on the highway or in town. Is more power on the way? I sure hope so......

To: KKeb what gas mileage do you get on your Enclave?

Recently rented Lucerne and wanted to share a couple of suggestions. All related to what can be considered minor issues, but can impact decision makers whether to purchase this vehicle. First, try to get two Starbucks coffees and insert them into the cupholders between the front seats. In my experience, they will not fit without being prone to spills. Second, while the seats are covered with leather, the sides where the spills from cupholders occur are covered by fabric, so spills turn into difficult to remove stains, that you can see every time you enter this car. Finally, the gear shifter, move it from Parking to Drive without looking at it and chances are you will end up in 3, instead of Drive as 3 is the last position when moving straight from Parking. Nothing major but all annoying.
One more thing, if the intention is to compete with luxury vehicles and even Avalon, please consider adding keyless start and door lock. Once drivers get into the habit of using the keyless start and door lock, there is no way back. Good luck with your sales.