NY Times Wheels Blog: Wrong about Saturn
By Kyle Johnson
Director, Saturn Communications
There was a puzzling post by Jerry Garrett in the New York Times’ “Wheels” blog yesterday. We were puzzled mostly because we were surprised to learn that we were dead, according to Jerry — “killed off” in some sinister, if wholly imagined, plot. He called us “a different kind of car company, indeed.”
Okay, Jerry caught us. We are different. We’re not the Saturn we used to be. In fact, we are about to launch our fifth all-new product in the last 18 months - and we have expanded our strong customer treatment programs: no haggle/no hassle pricing, 30 day/1,500 mile exchange program, 24/7 live web chat, at home test drives, just to name a few.
Jerry’s main concern seems to be our collaborative relationship with Opel , which baffles us, frankly, because there’s not a company out there that doesn’t borrow freely from itself when it sees opportunities to improve. And we strongly believe that the Saturn-Opel design and development relationship makes sense for both the European and North American markets, and gives both Saturn and Opel the strongest lineup possible. This kind of globalized product development process is working: Astra, Aura, Sky and Vue are all acclaimed, and Saturn sales are up — even in a rough year in the overall automotive industry. So what’s wrong with that?
Isn’t being a good car company supposed to be about having great products and having retailers treat customers well? So why does Jerry think that it’s bad that we’ve changed our business model so that we’re bringing better products to the market?
We’ll continue our collaborative relationship with Opel. But Saturn is, was always, and will remain a North American company. Saturn and Opel will continue to have unique regional vehicles; you’re probably not going to see an Outlook in Europe or a Zafira in North America.
We’re confident that if Jerry actually had the opportunity to drive a Saturn — any Saturn — he’d think differently about us. By our records, Jerry hasn’t tested a Saturn recently. We’d like to remedy that. So Jerry, what kind of Saturn would you like to drive, and where can we drop it off?
- Posted in Business
Dave
And the domestic bashing goes on and on. I recently emailed CNN’s Ali Velshi to point out how his facts about GM where either wrong or exagerated on the side of bias towords the Japanese Imports. It seems the regular media can’t seem to accept the fact that GM’s new products are as good or better. I think you have to challenge them at every turn until they get it right.
thriftytechie
GM has borrowed from itself in the past to horrible (e.g., Cadillac Cimarron) and mediocre (e.g., Saab 9-7x) effect. This is where the knee-jerk negative reaction against any and all “badge-engineering” comes from.
In Saturn’s case, the rehash is easier to swallow because a) the vehicles are OK and b) the re-badge isn’t a futile excercise in redundancy.
Regarding the second point, some pudits’ logic would lead people to believe that somehow it would be inherently better to sell the Opel Astra here in the U.S. as the ‘Opel Astra’ instead of the ‘Saturn Astra’. Obviously, this makes no sense whatsoever.
So in my book, selling Opels in the U.S. under a different name (i.e., Saturn) is fine. What is more important is whether the vehicles are good and whether the service is good and whether the price is right.
getalifeagain
This reporter obviously does not understand the way the current automobile industry works and why it works that way to survive.
Anyway, the NYT is a leftist paper so who cares!
Gary Dikkers
Mr Johnson,
While I laud GM for bringing Opels to the U.S., how can you call cars that have been on the road in Europe for years “all-new?” (Must be some marketing gimmick, eh?)
What I can’t understand is why you didn’t kill the Saturn brand as Jerry Garrett suggests, and change the signs on all your Saturn dealers to say Opel.
Opel has a long tradition of making fine cars — much longer and storied than Saturn. It would have cost you to change all the signs and the business cards of the salesmen, but certainly there is more cachet in the Opel name than Saturn. Why didn’t you take advantage of the long, proud tradition of the Opel name?
You could have trumpeted the superior engineering and quality of your German subsidiary. (German engineering is legend, right?)
Why not ad copy that says, “And now from our legendary German subsidiary, the Opel Antara — a car engineered for European roads and driving conditions. A car designed to precise German engineering standards to hold its own on the reknowned Autobahn.”
Why would anyone want a Saturn when they could have an authentic German-designed Opel?
You guys must have your reasons for not marketing them as Opels, but it escapes me. Since you are selling Opels, be proud of that — take advantage of it, don’t hide it behind the bland Saturn marque.
Now, when is Saturn going to start selling that turbo-charged, diesel hybrid Opel over here?
Regards,
Gary Dikkers
Corto
I’m driving an Aura as a loaner presently and while there’s no doubt it’s much better than the L it (finally) replaces, I would not buy one. It burns way too much gas (and don’t tell me the mild hybrid is a valid option), it’s a real pain to park because of the humungus turning radius and some of the plastic inside is unacceptable. For instance the inside handles on the doors are warping they are so cheap. For my part, I don’t like the impact of the ¬´crushed¬ª roof √† la Chrysler 300 and the A pillars are blinding because they are big and very much in the line of vision when you need to look sideways. Although the car is rigid, rattle free and boasts a nice European ride, I’m surprised it got so much praise. But I’m not surprised they are collecting dust on dealer lots. A bit like the Cobalt and the Cavalier: a big step in the right direction but still playing catch up.
Brian Dreggors
Thank you for that excellent rebuttal, Kyle.
After recently attending your division’s Brand Advocate Meeting, speaking to the enthusiastic Saturn owners, retailers, and enthusiasts there as well as the thousands of members on Cheersandgears.com on a daily basis, I can only come to the conclusion that the Saturn of today is the cornerstone of a solid tomorrow. Perhaps Mr. Garrett should be invited to the next one to see the enthusiasm of the ‘old-timers’ and the new blood in watching their infantile car company mature into a real player.
While Mr. Garrett is correct that the ‘company within but apart from The Company’ that was the original Saturn experiment is gone, the mentality and spirit is still alive and as in fact spread throughout GM. The intelligent manufacturing techniques honed in Tennessee continues to be refined and improved at Grand River, Delta Township, and the new retooled Spring Hill. As a side note, Mr. Garrett’s allusion to the Chevrolet version of the Lambda crossover being slated for Spring Hill is indicidive of the great success of the current trio, of which Saturn’s OUTLOOK is one.
“Customers were loyal”
Guess what? They still are. Evidence the number of Saturn ‘families’ who continue to add the VUE, AURA, and SKY to their driveway. I can offer a brief anecdote of a close friend of mine who is trading an SL2 for an AURA XE and whose uncle just bought an ‘08 VUE. No doubt these anecdotes speaking form small chapters of Saturn’s larger success.
“Resale values were generally stellar”
Perhaps. I know the new cars will be even more ‘resellable’ and more importantly, more appealing. Folks who would never have considered a lowly Saturn scrambled to get SKY roadsters (and I suspect we’ll see something similar with the coming Astra 3-door).
“Even if their reliability records weren’t”
Dubious, but for a moment assume true. Quality is certainly improved with the newer flock and reliability is bolstered by using known and reknowned GM powertrains. Even among the first S-cars, realiability was respectable. Browse a local paper or Craigslist to see a preponderence of older, higher-mileage Saturns trudging along through their fourth and fifth owners.
But the most glaring dysfunction of Mr. Garrett’s piece is his complete ignorance of the current state of Saturn. As an Oldsmobile owner, his comparison is irresponsible and inaccurate. Oldsmobile similarly underwent a massive infusion of cash and major turnaround resulting in truly world-class, standard-bearing vehicles like the original Aurora of which I’m a proud owner, but for reasons that would dominate several blogs, they didn’t take.
Simply put, Olds is gone; Saturn still exists. And is growing. Mr. Garrett acts as if traditional Saturn owners are turning away in droves and non-Saturn, non-GM intenders aren’t even bothing to look at the cars. It couldn’t be further from the truth. And while (from my perspective) the intensive product bombardment of the past year and a half could have been orchestrated better, the simple fact is Saturn has a far better lineup than it ever, ever did before.
Perhaps Mr. Garrett would’ve preferred Saturn to have its ‘independence’ to continue churning out a palatable but utterly boring and unappealing line of three compacts in an evolving marketplace where even traditional niche players are expanding their portfolios. If they did, I’m certain his article would be spot-on correct because Saturn would be dead.
As I’ve heard quite a few put it, the Saturns of today are fulfilling the promise that Saturn made almost two decades ago. Perhaps most telling is an old-school Buick/Oldsmobile man like my father, who would’ve never considered being seen behind the wheel of an original Saturn, taking a seriously keen interest in the AURA. Traditionalists, lifelong import owners, Saturn diehards, and those in between are more and more buying Saturns that ever before.
And if that’s not evidence of life, I don’t know what is.
Keep up the good work. Can’t wait to see what else is around the corner.
P.S. I’ll gladly take Mr. Garrett’s Saturn test drive for him. Make it a blue metallic Astra XR.
Camino LS6
So glad to see that the absurd article hasn’t gone unanswered! The author (and most of those commenting) need to take a remedial Saturn course as they are woefully out of touch.
Jon
I would like to commend Saturn for being such a good name brand and having so much character. Jerry is completely wrong, Saturn is very much alive and growing.
As a 19 year old attending Purdue University in West Lafayette, IN I have seen a lot of my friends driving piece-of-crap foreign cars in the past few years. Unlike them, I wanted to buy a quality product while supporting an American based company. I even looked at the foreign competition before I made my purchase just to see what was really better . . . Saturn won hands down! Now that I am cruising around in my Saturn, I have noticed more and more of my fellow college students driving around in their new Saturns too. A friend of mine used to argue with me that his Toyota Camry was better than my Saturn Aura. Haha, I definitely put some good myths to rest! Not only has he given up on arguing with me, but he is also considering buying his first Saturn.
Saturn is doing better and better at attracting people from my age group . . . the age group that’s purchasing the cars of tomorrow. As we get older, graduate from college, and grow into well paying jobs I suspect that Saturn will continue to grow with us. Jerry, you are SO wrong!
Jeffrey
Kyle,
It’s crystal-clear to me that the NY-Times article is simply saying that Saturn is now just another badge-engineered, GM product. This is not a bad idea, especially with the Opel connection, but don’t insult the educated public and say it’s not.
I like the Saturn line-up now. What you really need is a real 10Yr, 100k, bumper to bumper warranty, and then you’ll make inroads against the competition.
By the way, why does the console closing sound of the Aura sound like plasticky-junk? Is everyone at GM oblivious to this? Are the execs at GM ever in their own cars?
Dan
You keep records on who test drives your cars?
I read Jerry’s blog post yesterday and could see his point, that a lot of people viewed the original Saturn kinda like the old divisional structure - before the 1970s - when each division had a unique identity, with their own engines, their own body styles, versus the current trend toward badge engineering. Sure, there’s going to have to be some parts sharing - you folks at GM have done so since the 1930s - but the original Saturn groupies became so because they saw a distinct personality, a distinct identity, which they’re having a hard time seeing now.
That said, I agree that companies need to change with the times, and I personally have no truck with using Saturn as a conduit for bringing Opels to America. Nor do I have a problem with using Pontiac as a conduit for bringing Holdens to America.
Brougham-Holiday
Jerry Garrett looks like the worlds biggest idiot in the eyes of many car guys. At a time when too many cars have become look alikes and boring Saturn has become young and cool. As far as this 19 year old college student is concerned there isn’t a cooler affordable car then the new Sky. Its really a car that makes people “Rethink American”.
Frank T - Connecticut
(Brougham-Holiday on cheersand gears.com)
Frank
Yet another mouthpiece for the New York Times Anti- American Agenda…My advice buy the NY Post.
Paul
That’s funny to me because the only GM vehicle I’m remotely interested in is the Saturn Astra (even though it’s not a diesel and doesn’t get 40mpg), and I think it’s one of the best vehicles GM has made in recent years.
J.Crew
Nice one… The funny thing is if Saturn had remained the same he would be calling it a dead brand because the old product would have killed you off in the market in a slow Oldsmobile like death. Is he saying he misses the old plastic cars that you were losing money on for over a decade?? This guy needs to give his head a shake. I enjoy the new Saturn products very much and look forward to the next Aura. Keep up the good work!
Phillip Harris
To the author of the NYT article. I am 21 years old, I currently own a Saturn. What’s more I sell them, what shocks me is that yet again you see the older generations ignorance ( textbook meaning ) in his lack of research into what he wrote shame on you.
As a sales consultant and a consumer I actively research my own product and my competition and you know what bottom line it was better to go with the home. It seems he can’t understand why GM does what it does but the simple fact is WHO CARES. You have a GENUINE Competitive product THAT SUPPORTS OUR ECONOMY, Feeds UNITED STATES CITIZENS AND PAYS THEIR BILLS. And you have the audacity to say we need to be GERMAN TO BE BETTER. Look at Chrysler and you see what the GERMANS are about taking over and when it doesn’t work out selling out.
The next time you want to bash ask a question and get it answered by the Hundreds of thousands who seem to know much more than you do.
Good day to you.
Mike Murphy
Saturn has had some great new product, as well as Buick but What about Pontiac? With the exception of the Solstice and maybe the G8 every other Pontiac seems to be a warmed over hand me down or a overly understated design that ignores Pontiac’s heritage. My first 3 cars were Pontiacs and I have a fondness for the “Excitment” division of General Motors.
Oh, Not everyone that likes Pontiacs or purchases them, wants RWD. I find people like exciting/emotional design that is afforadable, and we all know FWD is the biggest bang for the buck.
Thanks again.
JohnP
So the “no haggle/no hassle” pricing of Saturn Skys since introduction has included a factory mandated overcharge above MSRP? This is where you lost everybody that thought EDLP nationwide was a Saturn “thing”. To rebuild the image you might want to start with rebates to all Sky owners that paid above MSRP. ANd then clarify the actual pricing strategy on all models. Is the no hassle price MSRP or is it a discounted price similar to where every car customer expects to end up.
edvard
I too do not feel that where and how a car is made has much to do with the end consumer experience. That said, consumer experience is exactly what has gotten GM such perhaps undeserved negativity in the press.
Simply put, if you who work at GM read this blog, perhaps the most common complaint you’ll read is about your interiors and other parts of the car consumers come into close and frequent contact.
To be honest, 95% of Americans probably have no clue what goes on under the hood. They just want something that looks pleasant, drives comfortably, and gets them to work day in, day out for around 5-6 years without major problems. As we read in the news, we Americans are driving more and more. Thus if you sit someone inside a car for 8 hours or more per week, they will notice if things aren’t right. If your car’s interior is made out of cheap-feeling plastic, the overall opinion of the product diminishes.
It really is simple as that. Spend more time developing better interiors, materials, and final touches. Improve the experience and you will improve public opinion. If Saturns were up to the same fit and finish as some of the competition, perhaps people such as the author of the NY times wouldn’t have been as hostile.
The fact of the matter is that many so-called “smart” people around me in California drive VW’s, which despite being made in Mexico and sporting awful reliability records do have very nice interiors… and this is why people who probably already know about their less-than-stellar quality at least mechanically still buy them.
sirAQUAMAN64
I agree Kyle. Except the Zafira is exactly what I’d like to see as a Saturn. And diesel! At least for sale here in Canada where Mazda5, Rondo, and B-Class are hits and on my shopping list. If VW offered a Golf Plus - TDI or 2.0T - I’d have chosen that over my ‘07 GTI (which I traded my ‘01 Golf TDI for).
That said, love the styling but some interior details are letting me down, even in the new VUE - parts could feel/look (exterior door handles don’t open well even when unlocked, Red Line instrumentation is questionable), fit together and stay together (passenger interior door grab separates alarmingly when I pull it, screw cap behind driver’s side coming off, boot over right stalk came loose which I put back, leather on the steering wheel already unlooping) better. There’s some smart pieces (magnetic rear fold down armrest storage, love the Red Line seats, etc), but the small details are glaring to a buyer like me and combined with somewhat steep pricing would have me shopping elsewhere. Keep working at it! I’m hoping the Astra is more to the high standards I’ve come to expect from Euro brands and even Honda/Acura nowadays.
Good on you for firing back when the press doesn’t know what they’re talking about!
sirAQUAMAN64
PS, keep treating your customers right and never lose it. That’s your secret weapon.
John Chennavasin
In regards to Gary Dikkers’s post about changing Saturn to Opel, the Vauxhall marque is still used in the U.K. The cars are otherwise identical to Opels (unlike Saturn).
VanillaMan
I have had five Saturns. I love my Saturn SW2. I got the last year available because I wanted a real Saturn wagon.
I’ve had two SL2s, an SW2, a VUE and I have a Relay.
When I had to replace the VUE, I was unhappy. The Relay is a poor vehicle. The ION was a poor vehicle. The L series was a poor vehicle. But I love the dealership and bought the Relay, which I regret nearly every day.
I am glad that my local Saturn retailer have better cars to sell me. I like buying my cars from my dealer, and my dealer has been wonderful to me.
But Saturns used to be cool. It was neat that they were plastic bodied, had great engines, and were so economical and sensible. They were like anti-cars, just as the Scion is today.
The new Saturns are better in every way, except in spirit, and I think that is what I will miss the most when I can finally rid myself of that dreadful Relay and get an Outlook.
Autoblog
GM FastLane Blog responds to NY Times: Saturn still viable
Filed under: Etc. , Plants/Manufacturing , GM , Saturn , Opel We don’t get it. Saturn has done an amazing
Geo
It’s no resurgance of Saturn, it’s Opel making some nice cars. GM, stop the multi-rebadging and lose the lame brand differentiation already. Just open Opel dealerships stateside and be done w/ it.
Erik
Most people miss some of the biggest problems that GM has because you can’t easily point at it and touch it. Product was one and that is starting to come around. The second on is the dealerships issue. GM supports too many dealerships and Franchise laws make it hard, if not impossible, to fix.
So here we have Saturn that is starting to have a good product mix. It has a Brand name that people identify(Opel has no identification in North America). And has a small and specialized dealership(which GM wish it could do for all its other brands) that is more focused on customer service than most Luxury brands. And the New York Times think it should be killed off. IDIOTS.
Don
What does the NYT want? Saturn’s only made itself viable again after nearly 20 yrs of trying to find itself.
Oh well, I guess the old adage is true…”you can’t please everyone all the time.”
Good luck to Saturn and GM.
Elaine
If you are a former employee of the GM plant in Linden, N.J., and you knew my father Charles Vashlishan, I’d like to hear from you. He worked there more than 30 years.
Eliot
I think this is a matter of marketing overtaking reality. In a way, the NYT blog is correct.
Saturn was marketed as a “different kind of car company. a different kind of car”. Lumped in with that was the idea that Saturn would make its own cars, here in the U.S. An experiment. Do cars differently.
While some GM fanboys here are lauding the excellent (and they are excellent) business choices made by GM to cease the Saturn car building venture and instead focus on Saturn’s strengths (successful pricing, shopping programs), many of us did take the “different kind of car company” tag line seriously.
The fact is, the manufacturing and design experiment failed, while the sales experiment succeeded.
So come on, GM, be honest with us. The NYT is right, Saturn is different, and in a significant way.
In fact, I would love to see an ad from GM that says the following:
********
In the 1990, GM started an experiment. It was an experiment in design, production and sales. It was called Saturn.
Our goal was to reinvent what it meant to design, build and sell cars.
Along the way we learned a lot. Some things worked. Others didn’t.
Now, Saturn has grown up. We’ve taken the best of what we learned and rethought what it means to be “a different kind of car company” in a global market.
And we’ve listened to our customers. So now we are fully taking advantage of our global engineering and design capabilities, while keeping the successful sales philosophy you’ve come to know as Saturn. It shows in our all new line-up of our best vehicles ever.
Saturn
A different kind of car company…
Again
********
It may seem like it should go without saying. But as the NYT article demonstrates, it doesn’t
Tyler
I’m in England right now, and I’ve seen quite a few VAUXHAll Astras here. It looks like a great car, and I’m sure it will be a success here given the current market. Is it a problem that the Astra is sold as an Open, Vauxhall, and Saturn in different countries? No. Each brand is sold in a different set of markets, so there is no real redundancy, and they all represent the same market segment (slightly upscale, entry level, family car). The reason other rebadging efforts have failed is that the brands did not represent the same segment (economy vs luxury, etc) and/or they were both sold in the same market, making them redundant. Obviously the Saturn/Opel/Vauxhall relationship is quite different.
Ralph
I own 2 Saturns and I’m not sure what to make of the ‘new’ Saturn. A little while back I did suggest to my Saturn Service Writer a way to add product to the dealership. I said I would not be adverse to seeing “Visit your local Saturn-Opel dealer”. Well, looks like we did get the Opel cars on the showroom floor, but no more new Saturn designs. I suppose if GM’s finances had been better, the Saturn experiment could have continued. I remember way back at Saturn’s announcement that there was also supposed to be a Jupiter car project for larger models…but they wanted to get the smaller car/smaller project off the ground first. I’ll give the new Saturns a lookover when the time comes. But I will cross shop the Aura against the new Malibu…mostly due to price. The new Saturn also includes new higher prices. They sort of left many of us practical Saturn owners behind.
PS - Maybe it didn’t help that us Saturn folks lost Spring Hill as our home base. If you wanted to go to a “Saturn Homecoming” - - where would you go?
castigamatti
are Saturn AURA americans CARS?
are Saturn = opel americans cars.
NO.
Regards …
Ciao from italy.
Kyle Johnson
John P-
Here’s some information that might help define what no-hassle/no-haggle means.
No-hassle means Saturn retailers are up-front about all elements of a vehicle’s price. There are no last-minute add-ons or hidden charges.
No-haggle means the retailer sticks to a set price. There’s no place for horse trading and dickering, because these don’t fit with the Saturn philosophy. Saturn believes that no customer should ever wonder whether the retailer’s next customer will get a better price by driving a harder bargain.
I’d like anyone who paid more than MSRP to contact the Saturn Customer Assistance Center. The phone number is in the owners manual.
Thanks again for the comment. -Kyle
Fred Turner
Kyle, Does that include those of us who were forced to buy the Saturn Guard?
That being said/asked, I love my Sky Redline! It gets noticed and stared at everywhere I go, and people are amazed when they either ask or figure out what that red badge means. The looks on their faces are really funny to watch. The NYT is really becoming irrelevent to many people. They are full of anti-American, liberal people who don’t know anything about the real world, much less automobiles. Maybe that’s why their circulation numbers are in the tank!
Keep up the great work GM-Saturn!!
John
Did you guys see the comments below the N.Y. Times article you linked to?
Ouch.
But seriously, what is it with Saturn drivers being the most passive aggressive drivers on the road?
Is it the no-haggle policy or what?
GM will be great again once it cuts Buick, Pontiac, Saturn, Saab, and Hummer.
Buick? No room between Chevy and Cadillac anymore - Bye.
Pontiac? GM’s performance brand? But the Corvette’s a Chevy, and the Bow-Tie is what most hot-rodders prefer - Bye.
Saturn? Nobody buys the nonsense except for 3-4 fanatics. Bring the better Opel models as Chevy’s instead. - Bye.
Saab? Enough said. - Bye.
Hummer - No room between the GMC’s and the Escalades anymore - Bye.
Cadillac - Power and Luxury
Chevrolet - Affordable Performance
GMC - Heavy Duty Trucks
Then issue a “badge-engineered” version of the performance models every few years to keep the die-hard Pontiac/Buick fans happy. That’s all the really great ones were anyway.
Chevy/Cadillac/GMC - That’s all GM needs.
Don’t build multiple models of cars people don’t want. Build a few models of cars people DO want and sell lots of them.
Patrick
Hey Guys: get a grip. I’m as big a GM fan as their is, but these comments about the perceived political leanings of the Times have absolutely nothing to do with Garrett’s article. Unfortunately they have to do with a perception of GM’s products that’s been built up over a generation and that’s going to take time to change. Product pleases customers and pleased customers are loyal customers, and that pleases GM and its shareholders. So it’s not about politics, it’s about product and perceptions. Besides, the NY Post couldn’t be a bigger joke if it tried.
kurtW
The Saturn line of cars is definitely getting a much overdue makeover and upgrade, and that is appreciated along with the stated goals of Saturns’ sale practices. I found the Saturn selling process informative and generally pleasant. My hope is someday Saturn will have its own version of the Saab Sport Combi!
But Kyle, with all respects, there are Saturn dealers that don’t follow the “no hassle” rule. In S. Calif, dealers routinely to pack Skys with huge chrome wheels and other “non-negotiable” add on junk.
This (and the tired mantra “the dealer is an independent business”), puts Saturn a few steps behind Toyota efforts towards getting their dealers (some of the worst in the industry) into more respectable shape.
Finally, Saturn could beef up the service side of their dealerships. My experiences with two Saturn dealers service brought substandard work and customer relations more typical of the “traditional” dealer I eventually had to trade my Saturn to for a GM Hatchback.
I hope Saturn can make owning a Saturn as pleasant as it (usually) is buying one.
ghent
i can’t see the point why u are making a big fuss out of an ignorant blogger from a prominent newspaper? or is it the reason u r making a big fuss? Americans will continue to buy Saturn cars if they understand what the brand stands for instead of listening to some baloney blogger.
have u read the news on http://www.leftlanenews.com/mercedes-f700.html ?
it seems mercedes is gonna introduce F700, an S-Class size sedan that consumes only 127g/km of CO2 using DiesOtto, a technology similar to HCCI. Compare this to Lexus GS450h, which emits 186g/km, and u have got a stunning breakthru. This is a reason why we can say no to Japanese cars. We have the technology to beat them. With E-Flex, HCCI and Bluetec, GM and Cadillac can become one of the global big three alongside Mercedes and BMW.
Rene Curry
In business you must always review the business model and make changes as necessary to adapt. The world does not stand still.
Perhaps Jerry Garrett could be grouped together with George Bush in that they do not see that a change in course is necessary despite a new set of operating parameters. Not having an open mind as a writer is not very good.
I think everyone on the Saturn team deserves a lot of credit on the rapid & effective implementation of these new products. Saturn would equal Oldsmobile if this was not done. At the same time it brought the entire GM organization up a few notches on customer perception of GM products.
greenhornet
The New York Times is the finest newspaper in the United States, it does have a liberal bent and so do I.
I also think GM builds the best cars in world and Saturn is a standout among GM’s best. The Opel/Saturn arrangement is simply brilliant.
Matt Johnson
As a fan of the “real” Saturn and a past owner of two Saturn SL2’s, I personally have no interest in the new Opels being branded as Saturns. I now drive a Subaru Legacy, but I do miss the dent resistant polymer body panels. If GM had at least allowed Saturn to retain that feature, maybe I’d still be a Saturn customer.
GM has several other divisions to cater to those who care about “panel gaps” so why not let Saturn continue offering a more durable, dent resistant body?
Edward Hayes
That whole article is a farce.
That is the first word that comes to mind.
Here is why.
If customer A is driving down the road in a Hummer H3. Customer B is riding down the road in a Chevrolet Colorado.
Does customer A have any clue whatsoever when he passes customer B on the highway that large sections of his Hummer H3 share components and engines with the Colorado that just past by?
The fact is most will never know and even if they did they would not care one bit. Hummer engineers unlike say Range Rover engineers of old did not have to create a chases or engine from scratch and that freed up the engineers to work on things that really mattered, off road prowess, design excellence, and a unique interior. That is what matters to driver A and driver A is all of us.
In the same way the customer does not care if Saturn is made in Tennessee or Times Square. Most Americans care less if its made in Taiwan or Tajikistan. What matters is that it is made well. And since Opel has been doing that for so long in Europe that it achieves market penetration in Germany and the rest of Europe that American automakers could only dream of, it is the perfect fit.
Now that the back offices and engineers have been combined Saturn can now give their attention to what really matters to the customers, that is customer care, service, the dealership experience and all those other things Saturn is so well known for.
The fact is Saturn does have a headquarters and it shares it with Opel in Germany and GM in Detroit. GM has changed enough that a Saturn operation can survive and even thrive right in the same offices as Hummer, Saab, Cadillac etc.
The fact is Saturn did change things. GM has become more like Saturn, and I will argue Saturn has not become like the old GM. Saturn is not a factory, a headquarters, a particular building or location. Saturn is a belief, a philosophy, that focus, vision, goal and dream for which a particular group of people strive toward. And as Saturn has stated, world class product, exceptional customer service and happy customers, they deliver.
So I say, Saturn is more alive and well than it has ever been and its future is the brightest and most secure than at any other time in its history.
I went to a Saturn dealership when the company just launched, and I went there recently to check out the Sky and I felt the same spirit of excellence that I did when it was launched. The product changed but the spirit lives on and but for articles like this one no one would know how such an amazing showroom was conceived.
Mike
Call them what you want, but once the Astra arrives, the cars at Saturn will be the best lineup seen at a GM dealership in decades. While Opel may be a world reknown nameplate, unfortunately that would be lost to most Americans. It would be better to stay “Saturn.” And who cares, anyway? It’s the cars that matter.
Gereon Langlitz (Germany)
“…how can you call cars that have been on the road in Europe for years “all-new?”…” - Gary Dikkers
Hi Gary,
please, allow me to correct your statement. I think you are mixing up something. Actually only the Opel Astra is the only newly-introduced Saturn-model, driving on our roads since years, whereas it’s still one of the very best and competitive compacts, you can get for money on this continent. I had the pleasure to driving an Astra several times already. It’s continuously winning comparos, also against the Japanese competition (e.g. new Honda Civic). The Opel GT (a.k.a. Saturn Sky) is brand-new over here, either, and so it is with the Opel Antara, whereas I regret, that Opel obviously hesitates to bringing the Hybrid-version of the 2008 Vue (Green line) to Europe.
Michael
A couple of points from ye olde “Eastern establishment effete snob.” (Anyone who doesn’t know where that came from should look it up.)
First, I do not necessarily agree with the NYTimes assessment, but I do resent people who automatically label the paper as “liberal,” when if anything, the past 7 years has proven the opposite; the NYT drank this administration’s Kool-aid for too long and was afraid to say anything. Only now is it beginning to come back and be a voice of reason.
And its blog was a voice of reason. Saturn has lost its original way–the one that did attract millions of buyers. That it is now just a means by which GM can sell rebadged Opels is irrelevant. It’s not the Saturn we were sold, and changing the name would not be the worst idea in the world, since its brand equity has fallen so rapidly. Saturn now stands for cheap, underpowered, flimsy, and austere. Whether it truly is or not doesn’t matter–that’s what the brand equity has become. Bringing in the Opels might save it in time, but for the foreseeable future, Saturn is on an uphill climb.
When I was doing my research and shopping for my most recent automobile purchase, I did stop at Saturn. The local dealership must be the anti-Saturn version, because the people there were surly and uninformed. The cars were okay, but the fit and finish were typical GM (meaning less than stellar). Whoever said something about cheap interiors had it right. Saturn still is not a pleasant experience from the inside. (In the interest of fairness, I am slightly disabled and have difficulty sitting in many cars, including upscale ones like BMW and Mercedes.) The Aura felt flimsy compared to other midsize cars, and I was unable to figure out how it was Car of the Year. Then again, Motor Trend is not always known for its, well, for lack of a better word, integrity (harken back to its ownership to understand why).
Finally, remember that the NYT blog was one person’s opinion. That is might be shared by others is of some consequence. But most interesting is the defensive stance GM has taken (attacking the NYT is not the brightest move in the PR canon). Sigh…
jg
What is going on with Saturn gives me concern about GM. It seems odd to pour so much money into Saturn, yet neglect Buick, which is down to three models. It just was named # 1 at JD Power, much higher than Saturn. Buick needs more models, too. It doesn’t make any business sense to me. If the Sky were a Buick Bengal I’d buy it because of Buick’s strong reputation for quality. Saturn isn’t there yet.
Chris (Toronto)
Here is the comment I posted on the NYT site, just FYI:
Thanks,
Chris (Toronto)
~~~~~
This article is ridiculous and so is the author.
Saturn cars have always been sub-par. Opels are very, very good cars. How anyone can possibly find fault with replacing sub-par cars with very, very good cars is beyond me.
I do not work for GM nor do I own a GM, but I am seriously consider a Saturn. This GM bashing has gotten out of hand.
Chris R
I also think the Saturn/Opel/Vauxhaul thing is going to work out well. As a former Saturn ION owner, i can tell you that I have not missed that car since I traded it in. It wasn’t a bad car, but it wasn’t a great car either. I think the Astra will be an excellent replacement as it offers something the ION never did: Stylish looks.
That said, is there any chance of grouping SAAB in at Saturn dealerships? SAAB only has a comparative hand full of dealerships, and would fit right in just above the new Saturns. It may also help discourage silly notions like the 9-7x from becoming a reality.
Gary
Danke Sehr Gereon,
You are correct Sir, I was mixed up. I thought the Antara had been on the road in Europe since 2005, but was mistaken. It was introduced at the Frankfurt Automobil-Ausstellungen in 2005, but actually didn’t go on sale until this summer.
Best,
Gary
Ames Tiedeman
Saturn is a great brand. The media needs to get this right. The anti-American bias spills to the auto industry. This must stop.
JohnP
Kyle, does your pricing philosophy extend to the point that each and every dealer charges the exact same price for identical vehicles (that’s the part of the Saturn philosophy that remains veiled in secrecy)- and if it does why has the FTC not shut down such illegal “price fixing”?
I have to agree with Geo, if GM had simply restarted importation of Opel, and set up the dealerships apart, like Saturn, then Saturn would not have been necessary.
Erik, you must be too young to recall the positive image enjoyed by Opel here during the 60s and 70s (prior to the “Opel by Izuzu” debacle, which coincided with Korean LeMans. Rallye, Manta, GT. If Hyundai can become a household name, then why not the more easily enunciated Opel.
lady
Saturn is indeed not the company it was originally marketed to be. As a Saturn owner I have become very dissapointed in Saturn Service. The Socalled Guarantee I got that said that Saturn guaranteed all its parts turned out to be only certain parts and I had to push to have the contract I purchased honored to cover one major part. You can’t find Dealer service centers as readily as you can Toyota, Chevrolet, and even Ford make cars. When you want service you the cjustomer have to work around the dealerships schedule and you don’t even get a rental car to get to and from work.
gwwyjjliu
Kyle,
I was jumping up and down cheering for you, up until I read the blurb “you’re probably not going to see…a Zafira in North America.”
Aww, what gives? The Zafira is the perfect vehicle for Saturn, offering something different from “a different kind of car company.” In these days of $3+ per gallon gas, a 7-seat Zafira is perfect for young families looking for an MPV but find the Outlook too big.
I know you might not sell them in huge volumes, but the Saturn Zafira (has a nice ring to it, doesn’t it?) would be a perfect complement to your lineup. I know I would have bought one, as a past owner of a 5 speed SW2, it would have been a perfect replacement.
Andoni
Saturn is now a GM¬¥s strategy to sell OPEL brand in the United States…
OPEL is in my opinion a very good brand, it have good design and german technology.
This is a GM very good idea to be competitive in USA..
Gereon Langlitz (Germany)
“I do not work for GM nor do I own a GM, but I am seriously consider a Saturn.” - Chris
Hi Chris,
if a compact car would do for you, I’d recommend the Astra. I drove this vehicle already for several hundred miles, both as a sedan and a wagon. It’s absolutely delighting. I can assure: You’d remember my words already during the very first test-drive. As far as the market-share is concerned, the Japanese compacts don’t play any serious part over here, in comparison to the Astra. That’s not without a reason. I am expecting big success for the Astra in the US, either, this model will turn up the heat on Toyota and Honda. I think it was a wise decision to introduce that car to the US-market, despite of the unfavourable Euro/Dollar-exchange-rate.
Luke
Saturn cars have always been sub-par.
Chris,
My mother has one of the plastic saturns from some time in the 1990s. She bought it for $3000, and is thrilled with it.
Granted that she puts a lot of money into maintaining it, both the mechanical aspects of the car (shocks, timing belt) and also the interior (headliner, sunroof seals, etc).
But, she continues to be thrilled with the car because it gets great mileage (it’s been has high as 40mpg drafting behind my Ranger towing a trailer) and because it matches her needs perfectly. She’s currently touring the west coast, visiting family, friends, and folks with whom she works.
I’d say it’s a lot more complicated than Saturns being sub-par:
Another good thing is that she was able to hear a problem with the timing belt/chain before the engine flew apart. She’s not at all mechanical and doesn’t want to be. But, she does listen and heard that something wasn’t right. So, she drove it over to the Saturn dealer — who listened and found that sound was the timing belt/chain. They replaced it, and she’s back on the road doing her thing.
The last time I had a timing belt fail (on a non-interference Mitsubishi engine), I didn’t notice any sounds or irregularities until it broke and I had to coast it into a parking spot. Actually, my mother drove the same vehicle for several years before I did, and she had the exact same thing happen.
So, I submit that evaluating the old plastic Saturns is a complicated thing. Even now, I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend them to somoene who is strapped for cash who intends to put time and effort into maintaining the vehicle. On the other hand, if you want a performance car, a luxary car, or even a fun car — well, plastic Saturn wasn’t indended for you. The designers were trying to come up with basic transportation that didn’t suck — and it seems that they succeeded. Alas, the era of this car ended long ago… And if she does need to replace it, the Toyota Prius is the only efficient-practical-refined car that I know of that would be of any interest to her.
Yes, my mother does live in a different world than us car entheusiasts. But she’s very happy there.
Borton
Saturn has just become an importing division for Opel. They are no longer an American company so let them rot.
Saturn will eventually end up like Oldsmobile.
Despite all their new vehicles Saturn still can’t match 1994 sales, and that was when they still had only two models!
Dino Baskovic
Mr. Garrett certainly is entitled to his opinion. In a major daily. One you presumably advertise in. Lots.
Myself, I’m of the opinion that I love my new Aura. The one sitting outside that every keeps mistaking for a Lexus or some other luxury sedan.
Heck, I wouldn’t even have considered a Saturn prior to last year. Now I own a car people literally gawk at on the street.
I’d say you guys made the right move. I know I did.
Tyler
Borton,
Why let them rot just because the cars aren’t American? The new Saturns are definitely better than the old ones, so what’s wrong with GM customers getting better cars?
I also agree with the idea of combining Saturn and Saab dealerships. They’re both European and a little different, so it matches. Saab is just the higher end division, Saturn the lower end. I think this is perfect harmony.
Also I think the name Saturn should be kept. Selling Opels under the name Vauxhall in the UK has worked nicely, so I don’t see why the same philosophy won’t work here. Yes it will mean that Saturn will be radically different than what it set out to be, but if this new Saturn delivers quality products to consumers, then that is no bad thing.
While we’re changing stuff around, lets get rid of no-haggle pricing. All of these no-haggle pricing policies (like Scion’s) is just a way to force everyone to pay MSRP but think the dealer and brand did them a favor by giving them a no-hassle price. If I want to be a lazy idiot then I’ll go into the dealer and pay them sticker. However, if I want a better price, then give me the option of working to get that lower price.
Charles
Jerry Garrett’s point is that Saturn the automobile manufacturer is dead and has been replaced by Saturn the automobile remarketer.
Well, that’s true enough.
So, what’s your real problem with the article?
DannyK
“While we’re changing stuff around, lets get rid of no-haggle pricing. All of these no-haggle pricing policies (like Scion’s) is just a way to force everyone to pay MSRP but think the dealer and brand did them a favor by giving them a no-hassle price.”
I very much agree with this. I would probably be interested in a euro car that handles like a VW Passat (which I love), but I’m not about to pay the inflated sticker prices. If I can do well for myself haggling on price for a Honda or Toyota, why shouldn’t I have this option with a Saturn?
Phillip Harris
“”While we’re changing stuff around, lets get rid of no-haggle pricing. All of these no-haggle pricing policies (like Scion’s) is just a way to force everyone to pay MSRP but think the dealer and brand did them a favor by giving them a no-hassle price.”
I very much agree with this. I would probably be interested in a euro car that handles like a VW Passat (which I love), but I’m not about to pay the inflated sticker prices. If I can do well for myself haggling on price for a Honda or Toyota, why shouldn’t I have this option with a Saturn?”
1. I am a sales consultant for
a Saturn retailer and I can tell you that the prices are not inflated. You can find the information about it on Edmunds and then Compare the Camry to the Aura you might be surpised.
2. The reason people want to haggle is because they don’t want someone making money off them. The simple fact is sales is a for profit business they will make money whether you like it or not.
So please by all means go to the Toyota dealership where you think you are doing so well on the price only to find out they made the money up in your trade and financing. It’s those reasons why no haggle works it saves time and there are no illusions. this is a new Century let the past 100 years of car buying go.
Chris R
DannyK, The no haggle pricing works well for many people as they do not want to have to go through everything involved with trying to haggle for a better price. That said, the big problem is when you’re looking for a small car, you’ve got the Astra, the Golf/Rabbit and the Focus ZX5 on your list, and Saturn won’t come off of the MSRP thus making the Ford and VW less expensive alternatives. Clearly this needs to be addressed somehow.
Tyler
Saturn will still get you in F&I, that part of the game hasn’t changed and thats the major source of revenue in the new car sales department at dealerships. No-haggle pricing doesn’t mean you’ll walk out of the dealership not paying anything other than the exact amount on the sticker. It just guarantees you’ll pay a lot more. Being able to haggle means you might be walking out for a bit less.
Philllip Harris
Addressing price competition is in the form of factory incentives. The simple and plainess of it is that.
1. It is not price fixing because any retailer COULD discount the car with what little bit of margin is in them, but they honor Saturn’s request not to price compete with each other.
2. If price and payment are the only thing you are looking for in the vehicle and not overall value then maybe a Saturn isn’t right for a person fixated soley on price I will pay $70 for a pair of Timberland boots but not store brand because I know of the quality I am getting. (1 pair has lasted 4 years)
3. Why have Saturn mark up the vehicle $3000 just to give you back $1000 in discounts and $1000 in incentives and an extra $1000 in trade. It’s ridiculous when you can just pay that final price in the first place and not be fooled by thinking that because you argued you got a good deal.
In light of those 3 points what purpose does haggling have if only to satisfy your need to waste 2 hours arguing over $3000 that would have been better spent with your kids, signifigant other, doing whatever it is you do in your free time?
getalifeagain
It’s too bad that American cars are not just that, all American.
But the fact of the matter is that the Japanese are running away with market share, and the American auto companies have to keep up.
“The business of America is business” and that would have to mean among other things, to make a profit. In this global economy it is an unfortunate necessity to share automobile platforms, parts, etc., at the cost of American jobs. Personally I hate this!
The American cars today are eons better than they were 25 years ago, yet the perception still stands that U.S. auto companies aren’t up to snuff.
There is proof of this as the GTO was Holden (Australian) built with a bulletproof motor (Corvette) and a Tremec transmission, yet the public perceived it as “American junk that didn’t look like the old one.” One that hurt GM, but I would say more so the auto consumer.
Phillip Harris
Tyler, Again it is a for profit business if you are that concerned about them making money on the financing: simply provide your own. Just remember the Bank makes money on you regardless of which route you go, haggling is a thing that makes you feel better yes but by no means will it mean in most cases you walk out the door for less because a dealer will tack it back in somewhere .
Again look at the difference in the invoices on Edmunds if you think the prices are overly inflated. As far as financing if the Dealer uses one of the subvented rate programs (ie 1.9%, 3.9% etc) all they make is 100 that the bank gives them not out of your pocket so they aren’t making an obscene amount there either.
Regardless of how you feel they will make a profit on every vehicle they sell as will any retailer the works on volume.
Regards,
~Phil~
Tyler
Phillip, your logic is a bit flawed. Saturns cost just as much as, if not more than, their counterparts from Pontiac and Chevy, but the quality is no better. I sat back to back in a Sky and Solstice, and the quality was identical. If a Saturn Sky was $2000 less than an identically equipped Pontiac Solstice, then I would say that your point is correct. However, go price a Sky against a Solstice (or in a few months an Aura against a new Malibu), making the equipment level as equitable as possible, and you will see that the Saturn is actually $1000 higher even before you factor in the price reduction you can negotiate on the Pontiac. I hardly see how that is a good deal. Although I prefer the styling on the Sky, they are otherwise identical in quality, performance, and features, and I would take the Solstice because the value is in fact much, much better. Go try it for yourself. You will be enlightened to see that Saturn’s No-Haggle pricing policy actually costs you a lot of money.
Noel Park
John Retsek of The Car Show in Los Angeles once famously remarked:
“The salesman in the plaid pants and the polyester sport coat didn’t leave the dealership, he just moved to the leasing office.”
F&I?
I HATE the traditional car buying experience, which is one reason we drive our GM cars forever. GM’s internet system has taken enough of the curse off that we have at least bought two new trucks for our business in the last 3 years.
Also, we don’t do F&I. Cash on the barrelhead, have a nice day.
SteveG
You need to get the Sedan version of the Astra here ASAP.
You should also bring over the Corsa.
Johnboy
GM will revert back to what it used to be: just another loser American car company who knows nothing except “how can we make money in the NEXT quarter?! The Chinese will eat you alive!!!
Noel Park
Alas Johnboy, that is exactly what so many of us fear. It is also why so many of these loyal bloggers invest so much time in trying to help to change the course.
Mostly, it feels like we are talking to ourselves, especially when phrases like “arrogant bloggers” go across the screens.
Even so, if you look at the work product of folks like Gary Dikkers, Paul, and so many others, you can see a strong committment to making a difference, no matter how tiny.
The fact that this blog exists, as a platform for these efforts, is one small reason for hope. I am going to keep putting my $0.02 worth in as long as I can, and hope against hope that it makes even one bazillionth of 1% of a difference.
What you predict may well come true. Let’s try our best to help fight it off.
Sheth Jones
There are some truly idiotic comments on here. People need to understand the primary purpose of Saturn was to compete with import companies. That is why they were independent of GM as a whole and thats why they made small cars. They were about more than plastic panels. To suggest that Saturn has betrayed its roots by having a competent lineup is ridiculous to say the least and just goes to show that in the minds of many EVERYTHING that GM does is wrong no matter what. When Saturn was starved for product they were wrong and now that they have added product they are wrong because the new products have steel panels.
Plastic panels were just ONE part of Saturn’s aresenal and it got them sales for a while but things were not going well before the latest infusion of product. If you want to get import buyers you need competent products- its pretty simple. Changing the name of Saturn is one of the most absurd and unrealistic suggestions I have ever seen on here and it shows that many who post here have no idea how complex the auto industry really is. If you dont know what you are talking about there is no need to post here. Save us all a lot of trouble.
Chris (Toronto)
I second Sheth Jones’ comments.
Saturn, and GM, is better with Saturns new products. End of story.
Thanks,
Chris (Toronto)
Irmgard
Why is the new SATURN Vue’s new ad uses the Slogan:
“Rethink American?” What is American? Designed by Opel made in Mexico?
Noel Park
Sheth and Chris:
Well I don’t claim to be an expert on the car industry, but I will be commenting here unless and until the blog administrator finds a way to block me out!
Most car buyers are not experts on the industry, but GM had better figure out what their opinions are and what products they want before it’s too late.
Every one of these comments is very valuable to GM. I only hope that more people participate, not less. That’s the whole idea, as I understand it. If you don’t like the comments, don’t read them.
Bring it on bloggers, you are the greatest!
Gary Dikkers
Mr Jones,
If you think changing the name of Saturn is “absurd” and “unrealistic” you are too close to the problem and have let the apparent complexity overwhelm you. Step back and take in the big picture. I know it’s a cliche, but think outside the box.
If GM is going to sell Opels in the US through their Saturn dealers, they should call them Opels, not hide them behind the Saturn logo. That’s unfair to their Saturn dealers, unfair to their Opel subsidiary, and deceptive to American consumers.
I say to GM, be proud of the great cars from your German subsidiary and market them as such. The Opel trademark has much more of a reputation and cachet than does Saturn.
You say it would be incredibly complex — I say it would be easy. All it would take is an investment in new signs at Saturn dealerships and buying new business cards for the sales personnel.
A five-year transition period
Starting immediately, Saturn dealers should put up new signs and become “Saturn-Opel” dealers, and GM should advertise the new Opel-designed cars as “Opels from your Saturn dealer.”
Then over the next five years they should slowly drop reference to Saturn until in 2013, all “Saturn-Opel” dealerships will put up new signs that say only, “Opel.”
It’s neither “absurd” nor “unrealistic,” instead it’s a practical and realistic way to take advantage of the tradition and reputation for quality Opel has earned over the decades. A reputation that Saturn doesn’t have.
Best,
Gary Dikkers
Bob
>Changing the name of Saturn is
>one of the most absurd and >unrealistic
Whats even more absurd is thinking the buying public wont make this into one of its own jokes. “Yeah buy American from Saturn Made in Mexico Designed in Germany.”
There will be a lot more GM bashing than you think about this marketing choice. More erosion of trust in the GM brand which if you haven’t noticed isn’t exactly riding high. Yes Toyota is starting to eat GM’s lunch and dinner.
The truck commercials are going straight up against GM.
So if you want to add one more joke in a long list of GM jokes keep hoping they that Saturn sells Opels as American cars. Turns me off. I liked the plastic panels and the older Saturns. Not fancy but reliable. The Vue had room enough for my 5 person Family. I am not sure the new cooler one will. It looks much smaller. The old Saturn’s didn’t turn into rust buckets here in the Midwest which is always appreciated.
Now with all steel panels I have to review Saturn again.
Bob
Chris (Toronto)
“Now with all steel panels I have to review Saturn again.”
- Bob
Bob,
Good ! I think that you will be very pleasantly surprised with the new Saturn vehicles. So do yourself a favour and “review Saturn” again.
Cheers,
Chris (Toronto)
Bob
I had my last Saturn 10 years. No visible rust.
Engine gave up after a
little after 100K. (burned oil
which I think was a Saturn issue as I put 200K on my Buick LeSabre and it was OK but the body rusted away)
How long until I see rust on the new Opels when Midwest salt and snow hit it?
I thought more cars would go
with plastic panels not less.
Seemed like GM didnt like the idea of the car lasting?
Jeff Bequette
If we are building Saturns in Mexico as posited above, why not bring in the Brazilian made Tornado? Great basic little Car/truck for those 3-5 times a year we suburbanites need a pickup, and Mom won’t let us put ‘dirty’ toys in the back of the minivan. Google ‘chevy tornado’ Great package, may have to go to mexico and get one. While I’m wishing, why not give Buick the Holden Crewman? That is a great vehicle and looks like it would really complement the line. I am not saying GM would sell a million the first year, but introduced through Saturn, 3-4 a month per dealer, could bring me back to buying a new car when I need to replace my aged 97 SW1. As it stands now, I’m looking at used Baja, because the vehicle meets a lot needs, 4 seats,pickup bed, AWD, good ground clearance off the top of my head. Oh yeah, make my Astra a Turbo-diesel, too.
Joe90
I don’t know why Saturn keeps relying on Opel when their cars fail here. For example Saturn is only going to sell 60,000 Aura’s this year, which is heavily based an Opel design.
By bringing the Astra here all Saturn is doing is further eroding American design and engineering. In many respects the Astra is the most glaringly Anti-American car for sale in North America.