Welcome Back…
By Bob Lutz
GM Vice Chairman
I’m on the road again this week, but I had to share a quick story I heard from one of our West Coast dealers about the sale of his first Chevrolet Malibu.
Seems this particular dealer has a good friend back in suburban Detroit who hasn’t driven a GM product since 1979. That’s almost 30 years that this gentleman has spurned our cars and trucks.
In the interim, he has driven all the big-ticket vehicles, lots of Mercedes-Benz products, and was most recently in a Lexus LS sedan. The man, whom the dealer characterized as a “car guy,” had heard a lot about the new Malibu, and finally went to his local Chevy dealer to try one out.
He liked it. A lot. To the point where he called his friend, our dealer in California, and ordered one. Loaded. He wants every option available – loves gadgets.
So this dealer in Southern California just sold his first Malibu, to a car guy from Michigan who is turning in his Lexus! The customer is flying out to L.A. to pick up the car and drive it back to Detroit. The dealer said, “I hope this is just one of many former GM customers that we are able to win back.”
Amen to that. I hope to hear many more stories like that about the Malibu. Share ‘em if you got ‘em.
- Posted in Bob Lutz
Tommy Baker
Bob,
Does your West Coast dealer also have bridges for sale in New York? What Lexus owner would cross shop for a Malibu? Further, why would this person from Michigan buy a car with California emissions only to drive it back to Detroit? And have to fly out there to get it?
Please Bob, give us a break! Surely you didn’t really believe this story……did you?
Tyler
Its possible, as friendship and loyalty could be enough for a guy in Michigan to buy a car from his friend who owns a dealership in California. Being a Lexus owner, stricter emissions probably don’t bother him. Also, it is probably safe to assume his friend took a hit on the car and sold it for a really good price. He probably didn’t actually trade in his Lexus, hence why he flew down. Probably picked it up as a car for a family member or something like that.
Really, stories like this don’t matter all that much. Initial reaction to the Malibu has been great, and I think sales will be competitive. It is an improvement over the Aura, and the advertising was much better.
Woody Oklejas
I’ll answer this one for Bob;
It’s all true; I am the Chevrolet dealer in Anaheim,
Ca.I am originally from Detroit so I still have many friends there. This one friend in particular has been a close friend for over 30 years.He hasn’t liked anything that we have had for sale since the Corvette I sold him in 1979. He has extended his lease, month to month,on the Lexus he has until the Malibu arrives. With the economy the way it is; he is tired of the high fuel costs and the high lease payments. He can buy anything he wants, and loves the look and feel of the new Malibu. He believes it is “cool” And that is what is so important about this, the new Malibu is changing the perception among consumers and we are becoming the “in” car to be seen in once again. As to the California emissions, there is no difference as these are 50 state emission vehicles; Why is he coming to California for delivery when he is probably passing by several hundred Chevy dealers in the process; for some good old fashioned visiting; Good friends are still hard to find!
Woody Oklejas,CEO
Anaheim Chevrolet
j reid
Maximum Bob:
Someone in Michigan buying a car in California and then flying out to drive it back? Hmmmm…..I suppose that could happen! Anyway, It will soon be time for the NAIAS in Detroit. I am anxiously looking forward to the concept of the next generation GTO. I will be disappointed to say the least if this car does not make an appearance there. I would prefer something along the lines of the 1999 GTO show car rather than a coupe version of the G8. Best of luck with the new Malibu - that one should do good.
PS If you have no intention of doing a next generation GTO, please make this fact public at one of your news conferences.
RussG
The Malibu could be on constraint from dealers in the Michigan buyer’s area. Until production adequately fills the pipeline, perhaps the Anaheim dealer can get the car for his friend much sooner than others with the desired options etc. After all, mass production has just ramped up.
The long distance buy for this Malibu may be a bit extreme, but it relates to the excitement many of us feel when buying a new car and being one of the first around to show it off.
Bob, thanks for sharing the story.
Rick Rohde
I just ordered a Solstice GPX, wanted that Kappa Nomad and finally got a 1:18 model, wanted the G8 six with a stick, finally settled for the GPX that I won’t beable to drive till spring, but it’ll be worth the wait(I hope).
John
Nice try Bob.
Too bad anecdotes are no match for reality.
A reality in which GM hasn’t made consistently decent cars in decades, and its market share has been declining while the Japanese automakers market share has been gaining.
So, that’s one Lexus traded in for a Malibu, while how many GM cars and SUVs stack up in the Honda and Toyota dealerships?
The L.A. Times even ran an article on the lack of interest in domestic product last week - http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-lazarus11nov11,1,5875287.column
Money quote - “I’d like to say I found plenty of people at domestic dealerships who could refute that sentiment. But that would be a lie. Maybe it was the time of day (morning). Maybe it was the day of the week (Thursday). I don’t know. All I know is that when I stopped by various American-vehicle showrooms in the Pasadena area, I couldn’t find a single customer on hand to chat with. Not one.”
Yeah, reality’s rough if you’re not willing to face it and make adjustments.
Any plans for a real hybrid Camaro yet? Gas at $100 a gallon isn’t going to help you sell musclecars if they’re not getting decent city mileage.
Come on GM, pull your head out of the sand and start building Americans the decent cars we deserve.
Nate
Interesting, not sure how much of the story I buy, but thats ok. I’ve seen the new Malibu, I hope that GM has moved from the rubbery looking plastic on the dash and door panels. I cant’ stand it. In the mean time I count down the days until the G8 or Buick version of it comes out…. though I still may buy a non GM… only time will tell. Sometimes I read these posts and wonder what GM is thinking. But thats for another day.
mitch
Mr Bob,
I’m shopping for a car for my mother, whose Infiniti was totaled in a head on collision. I have deliberately gone and studied American brand cars, but I can still remember the crap we bought in the Eighties. It’s so hard to overcome these memories. I am considering the Pontiac Vibe largely because of the Toyota connection: sadly the dealer here in NY has already said “I am ready to work with you.” I had to reject the Dodge Caliber because the panel below the steering column was shaped into a knee-cap cracker. What were those guys thinking? They make a very safe car and then fall down; I wish I could have bought their car.
Tyler
Bob,
I’m sorry to hear most of the comments on this blog. You tell an incredible story, and they don’t believe you. That’s fair enough, as it was a pretty impressive story. But then the actual dealer involved comes on and backs you up, and people still don’t believe you. Domestics are having the best reliability they’ve ever had and are eclipsing the Japanese, but they still think Toyotas are bullet proof, despite the Consumer Report warnings to the contrary. They use absurd figures like $100 a gallon gasoline (its not even 1/10th that bad in Europe!) and no one in a showroom on a Thursday morning (I used to work at the world’s largest Toyota dealership, where we would do more business in one day than most dealerships did in a month, and we still had only a few customers in our showroom during the entire course of a Thursday morning) to back up what they want to believe about reality. I am truly sorry that this is the response to a truly good car. Of course there is room for improvement, such as a rear center armrest and some handles around the interior, and I sincerely hope these are added for the next model year.
So congrats once again on the Malibu. Despite what the Toyota fanboys here may say, every objective review of the Malibu in the media has been overwhelmingly positive, stating that it isn’t just in the same class as the Camry and Accord, it gives them a very real challenge. That is quite an accomplishment, and I hope you are rewarded with the appropriate sales figures. Keep the improvements coming. Don’t stop, because you still have a long way to go, but you’re definitely headed in the right direction and going there fast.
Cheers!
Tyler
Dsuupr
John,
If no one wants GM cars, how come
1. the Enclave has been rated as the hottest selling car in the US? It’s on lots fewer days than ANY other product, foreign or domestic?
2. my local dealer tells me that ALL of the Malibu production is spoken for until the end of the year. Last I heard that couldn’t be said of the recently introduced accord.
3. the tundra has had more quality issues than the Silverado and the Silverado outsells the tundra by a LARGE margin
4. Buick tied lexus on the latest JD Power report for long term quality
5. the recall KING the past few years has been toyota, not GM.
6. and so on and so on.
It’s time for you to “pull your head out of the sand”. GM makes great products that the public does want, though unfortunately there are too many people like you that are behind the times.
Jim
While I’m not in the market for a Malibu, it’s still heartening to see that GM finally “gets it.” I just hold out (irrational) hope that some of this bleeds down to the upcoming Cobalt SS Turbo- a car which will probably tear me away from your noble counterparts in Auburn Hills (who still don’t “get it.”)
J. Crabtree
In 1994 I was deciding between a new Neon and a used Mercedes E-Class. People don’t always fall into neat little categories for marketing disciplines. I bought the E class.
Maverick
Great story, Bob. I admit that it’s a little hard to believe that a Lexus owner would buy a Malibu, but then you think about why they defected from GM in the first place. With the attention to detail, great design and seemingly good build quality, it makes sense.
I, too, have spurned after a horrible ownership experience with a GM product from the 1990’s. Since then I have owned over 15 Porsche, BMW, Mercedes and yes, even a Lexus.
I see GM really coming back and it is exciting. And this is coming from a high-profile West Coast executive.
I like the new CTS in particular. You really got that vehicle right. I would definitely consider it when I am in the market again. Maybe the CTS-V.
edvard
The comments from Woody Oklejas, the Anaheim dealer is actually very telling of the future of the US economy and how cars like the Malibu are going to become more favorable for the average car buyer.
The fact that he mentioned his friend’s disenchantment with his higher Lexus payments and of course- the troubled economic times- is a bit of an understatement.
There’s loads of evidence that many people who bought cars and trucks- particularly luxury cars- did so with cash out equity from their homes. Places like Metro Detroit, much of California, and the Northeast are going to be hardest hit with depressed property values. Therefor, the ability to buy cars with equity is gone.
So what will people be looking for in cars in the foreseeable future? Cars that deliver value, decent amenities, and fuel economy. The Malibu just so happens to fill those shoes quite nicely. The styling isn’t that far from looking like some of the mid-level luxury models out there and at under 30k, those who had previously owned Bimmers and Lexus cars will find cars such as the Malibu a good fit for their changing financial capabilities.
So in other words, the Malibu times the market perfectly. I’ve seriously only seen 2 of these at the local dealership which seems to be selling out of them almost as soon as they are unloaded, which must be music to your ears.
I do have one comment about the advertising, which is that it would be nice to have a larger variety of photographic styles. The super-highlighted, glamor style pictures being circulated on billboards and magazines is almost a bit extreme and grotesque. Mix it up a bit and show the car in some more realistic looking images as well.
Ben
Yow! Good work on the Malibu - the interior is amazing.
Not “amazing for a GM”, but simply amazing.
It’s really nice to see a mainstream production car that has a coherent soul to it. It doesn’t look like it was designed by a committee with all the pieces coming together at the last moment.
Kudos on keeping the name - It’s the first time that I’ve though really good things about the Malibu, the MAXX was cool though.
I remember when Accords where crappy “Hyundai” like cars, it’s a good thing to stick to it and make it better and better and build brand recognition.
getalifeagain
If the Malibu is an excellent car it will do excellent in the marketplace. All the signs are very good.
Steve
This story seems a bit extreme, but returning customers are always a good thing. I think some customers feel the same. They may have owned a GM vehicle many moons ago, but stopped buying domestic makes all together due to lack of quality and reliability. However, some are starting to take notice that the new products are looking and getting better. This is still an early stage for the domestic makes to call it a come back. The import competitors are also upping their games at the same time. In order for GM and other domestic makes to succeed, they must be on par or go beyond the import products. Only time will tell that the confidence of customers will once again return to GM.
sheth
john,
I hate to bring you back to reality but the Malibu is getting good reviews all over. Sure Consumer Reports probbaly wont like it but everyone else seems to be a fan. Several reviews have said that any midsize shopper who doesn’t look at this car is making a big mistake.
Autoextremist.com says its the best midsize car on the market. Apparently Automobile magazine agrees since its going to be an All Star.
as for GM cars piling up on import dealer lots I think you should revisit the facts. My understanding is that GM has one of the highest (if not the highest) buyer retention rates in the industry. You might want to look into that before saying anymore. If you read what the auto press is saying you will see that by and large they are impressed with GM offerings that have debuted in the last 2-3 years or so. The Malibu is no exception.
I would say you need to give GM vehicles the consideration they deserve instead of relying on the LA times for your opinions on where they stand.
W. Jackson
I find it interesting that people continue to bash Consumer Reports ratings. Much of the reliability data and comments comes from consumers like you and me that send in the annual surveys. GM continues to place near the bottom because they focus on cost reductions instead of quality, reliability, engineering and technology improvements. The mantra is “whatever we can get away with” to fool the buying public. All the little things - pull handles, decent weight floor mats, moveable headrests, soft plastics, quality switches, robust trim, quality leather and stitching are slowly being taken away bit by bit. Maybe not the first year, but rest assured any “extras” that may have slipped past the beancounters will not be there next year. If the beancounters can buy it for less, or get rid of it, well that is the misguided direction that GM will always take.
Well the buying public has spoken, and are turing a deaf ear to the worn rhetoric about how GM is so much better now. With the exception of a very few cars, GM sales continue to decline. And of course they stay the same old direction - take more cost out, sales results be damned.
You’ll need all of the current Lexus owners to turn in their cars (and then some) to get back anywhere near the market share that you once commanded. And if it wasn’t for companies like Toyota that changed the game with their superior quality and reliability, imagine the garbage that GM would still be turning out today. You can thank Toyota to force you to build something that is on the verge of being competitive (but quite homely IMO).
The Malibu is but a baby step in the right direction, and it might get some folks to notice. But GM needs much more than a baby step - you need to learn to leap and run.
Do your workers (including executives) get their annual bonus based upon GM’s year to year sales increases or cost reductions? The clear focus and direction from the top down needs to be on the former and not the latter.
Doug
Hey Bob,
Just thought I’d let you know that I have yet to recieve one of these godsends. Hope your well. Rural Chevrolet dealer.
Thanks, have plenty of trucks you shoved.
JohnP
Of course Toyota has been the recall king. They bother people with stupid little stuff like recalling vehicles because the floor mats are not welded to the carpet. Give me a break, and every driver be in charge of your own floor mat position, just like the good old days. No wonder they recalled more cars than they sold last year.
Now, the number one thing that aggravates me about the new Malibu is that th egreat looking two-tone leather interior is not available in a POntiac. We are stil waiting for eth G6 to catch up.
Robert Wilson
I recently worked with a very impressive young woman who lived in Arizona and wanted a Sky like nothing else.
She couldn’t find a dealer who was willing to work with her on what she wanted in either Southern California, Arizona or New Mexico.
When I first spoke with her I hooked her up with a dealer in Michigan who had the car she wanted and she was WILLING TO FLY TO MICHIGAN, BUY THE CAR and DRIVE BACK TO ARIZONA.
Long story short, I was finally able to find a dealer in LA that was willing to work with this woman to put her into the car she wanted - SATURN SKY.
SHE LOVES IT!
Brian Huber
Bob, great story…
As far as comments about people travelling to buy cars.. people do it everyday. Just ask Corvette owners. Yes, that’s a different situation, but they DO fly from all over just to drive it home.
I saw my 1st Malibu in person last night when I was at the dealer getting the oil changed. Amazing looking interior and I think that should be something that is shown more in commercials and such.
“Loaded” for under 28K. I’ve even had my dad looking at them now that his Altima is paid off.
Keep the good stuff coming!
sheth
w. Jackson,
Sorry to burst your bubble but CRs recommendations tell you little about reliability. CR rates vehicles based on how they compare to the average. If a GM vehicle has a 4% problem rate and the average problem rate for that particular category is 2% than the GM vehicle will get a black circle because it’s “much worse than average”. That is not the same as unreliable and if you read closely enough CR even tells you that vehicles will poor ratings are not necessarily unreliable. Furthermore, if you take the time to actually look over their in depth car ratings issues you will see that GM vehicles do very well in all the major categories such as engines, transmissions, engine cooling, electrical systems, etc. The majority of GM vehicles that are not recommended get average or below average ratings in “body integrity”. If 10% of owners of a GM model report they are not satisfied with body integrity (a very subjective measure if you ask me) than that model is likely to get a lower than average problem rate overall and not be recommended. There is no way that GM vehicles are as far behind as CR claims when you look behind all the silly circles and examine the data.
CR presents data so that there appears to be a large disparity between the best models and the worst models when that isnt the case. They know the average reader isnt going to look at how the data is derived and simply look at their “most reliable” and “least reliable” lists. The reality is that in most cases there are only small differences between new cars in reliability.
I think this blog is about more than GM bashing and I dont see the point of posting here if you have nothing constructive to ad.
Nate
Steve,
I think you hit the key issue that has plagued GM. The import car makers are upping their games all the time. GM is now where they just were. And in order for GM to do well they need to get to where the import makers are going first… and thats not easy. But that is what as to be done for GM to really do well.
sheth,
I agree I think alot of owners keep their GMs for a long time, at least I have. I still own a 1987 Pontiac Fiero, and a 1990 Buick. I’m not sure if I”ll buy a new GM in the next two years or a Diesel BMW, but GM has me wondering, and thats not a bad thing.
W. Jackson,
You are right in some regard, but on the other hand look at the price points on other cars. I dont think GM is doing much different then the other players in the industry are. Gm has a slightly diferent clientele. What WOULD the import makers do if they were marketing to the same people that GM does. Dollar for dollar are import cars really that much better? The reason features probably disapear is because GM finds what is not selling and decides to not offer it. What they probably need to do is find out why they aren’t selling.
You are right though, the bean counters at GM can take a decent car and make it into something I’d never buy in just less then one model year. What they need to be doing is adding options throughout the model year to bring people in, and then keep them there, and even cary over options to the next model year. GMs interior options are all over the board car to car brand to brand. They need more consistancy. I think the catch phrase of initial quality and perceived quality should be stricken from GM’s vocabulary. I don’t want trickery, I want real quality in a real product.
You make a good point, that GM needs to figure out how to lead not follow. They are always reactive and not proactive (I blame older managers for that, who aren’t as instep with the latest technology).
JohnP,
I agree to an extent, if we count number of reaclls GM is least, but I’d rather have a car company that is going to recall something thats un needed because it shows me they actually care about having a quality product through and through. It basicaly is them saying hey we should have built this better, we didn’t, we’re sorry, but we’ll fix it. I doubt GM would ever care that much. I’m pretty sure a carpet weld recall isn’t required, so I’d be glad if they offered it even if I didn’t want or need it.
I also agree that the Malibu Dash needs to go in the G6 or Saturn. GM why do you continue to not give us options. I’m not a big fan of the Chevy Bow Tie or the styling on the Malibu, I like the Saturn and the G6 a lot better. But I hate the interiors in them. GM should give us the option of mix and match our exterior to our interior even if its a custom order it’d be worth it. It would also make their cars value go up since having a G6 with a Malibu interior might be a bit rare.
Bob, does Loaded fro 28K mean its actually loaded or has GM forgotten a few interior items again? Can I get Nav, and an iPod hookup? How about leather door skins? oops proably not.
Eric Planey
I recommend to everybody to read 1) the story in The Economist (dont know the date, but Musharraf is on the cover) regarding Toyota and the issues they are facing. Then read the New York Times story on GM making good cars, but still need to overcome the perception. I look at the Malibu and think that the people who drive Lexus ES250s, a glorified Avalon, would consider a Malibu LTZ. Remember, alot of people remember their dad’s Malibus from the 1960s. There is such a thing as legacy.
Last week I drove my friend home in my 07 G6 GTP sedan. He has a 2001 Lexus IS. He couldnt believe the pick up I had on the highway.
Bob, great job! GM is back. If I had the space, my garage would be the G6, a Solstice and the new Vibe.
sheth
nate:
I find it ironic that you would chastise GM for not offering options when they offer more vehicles than anyone else. No automaker custom builds a vehicle to the exact specifications of every buyer. Its not realistic for obvious reasons. I find it hard to believe that anyone doesn’t like the styling of the Malibu but if you really do not the Aura is a solid alternative. The interiors are very similar. The seats, door panels, gauge cluster, steering wheel and center stack are virtually identical.
As for GM lacking in innovation I would disagree. They are often slow to spread technology across their models lineup but there is no way they can be accused of “following” when it comes to technology. GM is ahead of automakers like Honda, Hyundai, Chrysler, etc. when it comes to use of 6 speed transmissions, direct injection technology, telematics, hybrid systems, cylinder deactivation, variable damping technology and other things. If GM is following, I’m not quite sure WHO they are following.
John
Follow up.
In my previous comment, I meant oil, notgas, at $100 a BARREL, not gallon. I apologize for the error. Oil at $90 a barrel sure isn’t going to help sell V8s and once it breaks $100, the musclecar market’s going to be punished further, at least for the regular joe gearheads that would use it as a daily driver.
Also, I’d like to thank Robert Wilson for helping my friend in Arizona buy her Saturn Sky. She does indeed love it, and it is indeed a great car for her. (I don’t even fit in it, but that’s another story.) It’s just a shame that buying a car took that much effort. Too bad its twin, the Pontiac Solstice, isn’t selling nearly as well. http://news.windingroad.com/marketingadvertising/saturn-sky-flying-high-pontiac-solstice-flagging/ Maybe you all need to shift some production over to the Saturn side of the house, so that interested buyers don’t have to plan cross-country trips to get one.
But to rebut/discuss the other points:
The Enclave and Silverado are indeed selling well. GM’s never had a problem making decent trucks/SUVs, it’s the car market that’s going to be important over the years to come if gas prices stay high and global warming is in fact anthropogenic and not caused by sunspots or natural factors. It’s the CAR market that has caused GM’s share of the market to drop precipitously over the last few decades. Sure, it’s starting to come back a little bit, but that process could be hastened if GM started making more good cars and fewer lousy ones.
“My local dealer tells me that ALL of the Malibu production is spoken for until the end of the year. Last I heard that couldn’t be said of the recently introduced accord.”
Maybe, but that’s because Honda and Toyota won’t limit their production to say they’ve sold out. I could be wrong though, if the new Malibu outsells either the Accord or the Camry, I’ll admit I’m wrong and owe you a beer. The Malibu’s been outsold by the Camry 4 to 1 this year, so there’s some catching up to do.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21795425/
Mr Lutz says: “The Malibu represents the best mid-sized, front-wheel drive car that GM knows how to build.”
Brave words Bob. What do you do if GM’s BEST isn’t good enough to beat Honda or Toyota? What then?
“Buick tied lexus on the latest JD Power report for long term quality.”
Yes, but what surprised me most about this is that the average Buick owner didn’t have to turn in his keys once his family moved him into the retirement community. I suppose just being able to drive at all (though not at night) would give one a reason to speak highly of the car.
“The recall KING the past few years has been toyota, not GM.”
Don’t I know it. As the owner of a new Corolla, I’ve got to say the paint is garbage. That said, it will probably run until I wreck it or hell freezes over. And is that one year of Toyota being the recall king? Two years? Compared to how many years of sub-par quality for GM? How much of the recalls are Toyota standing up for quality and issuing recalls for problems, instead of telling the customers the problems aren’t covered the way domestic auto service managers have for years?
“and so on and so on.”
Indeed.
I don’t hate GM, I’d just like them to build the cars they’re capable of, and not tell stupid anecdotes about the one guy who’s traded in his Lexus for a Malibu when the anecdotes going the other way are overwhelming.
If you want to change perception, you have to build quality and stand by it. If you put a 6 year 75k BUMPER TO BUMPER warranty (not that hokey drivertrain warranty nonsense)on every GM car, that would do more to change perceptions of GM than all the anecdotes in the world. And if your cars were really built to world class standards, it wouldn’t cost that much.
But you’ll never do it, and we all know why.
Come on GM. The recipe is simple.
1. Build better products.
2. Stand by those products.
3. Inform the customer of 1 and 2 with facts and updated warranty charts instead of anecdotes and John Cougar Mellencamp songs.
You can do it GM!
And seriously, when is the Volt coming on the market? That thing’s going to be a game changer.
dallaswalton
Bob,
I believe your story. My mother-in-law got out of a Mustang a few years ago and leased a Trailblazer. She has enjoyed the vehicle so much that she is in her second one now. Not quite a distance of MI to CA but she deals with a Chevy dealer about 2 1/2 hours away. That dealer has taken care of her so they have her business.
I’m proud to bleed GM blue!
Nate
sheth,
I understand your enthusiasm for GM. But I stand buy my points. You even hit the key item I’m talking about. The G6, Aura and Malibu are for the most part the same car. What I notice GM do is bundle features on each. And thats exactly what I don’t think should be happening. From what I have heard, most people buy whatever the dealer puts on the lot. But if I didn’t like what’s there, my options for ordering are limited. I see no good reason that GM can’t offer different interior packages (aka dash options) for each of the cars mentioned above. If they are such similar cars, how hard is it really to make a set of badges that go on all the interiors for each of the brands (Saturn, Pontiac, Malibu). GM is intercompeting with itself, and instead of using that to its advantage to better meet customers wants, it hurts them.
In my case I’d love an Aura with the Malibu dash, its probably a simple matter of swapping the dash parts. Nothing that couldn’t be done. There are probably customers that would pay extra for this (justifying its extra PIA factor and expense). My point is GM doesn’t want to offer the option and they could and should. It might be a little less then easy, but when cars are built from the same chassis it seems like a no brainer. When I talk about innovation, I talk about the engines, drive trains etc…. My problem with GM is they don’t offer some of the showcase technology like other brands do. And thats ok I guess if you are selling mass market cars, but they need to spice things up a bit and offer extra high end versions of their car. I’m thinking options like turbos, AWD, and true pushbutton manual shifting. There are quite a few 30-40K cars that offer this. GM simply puts pushbutton shifted manuals in their cars. My point remains GM glosses over the details, and doesn’t put any effort forth to really have stuff that sets them apart. DI, they weren’t the first and if they were they aren’t the only one. I can goto a few other brands of cars outside of GM and get DI. Big deal, they should have something like DI coming along. They’ve only been pushign their same engines with minor modifications the past few years. As for HP it wasn’t until recently the you could get almost every GM car with 230+ HP. How long have their competition been doing that? As for fuel millage GM is slightly ahead of the pack. I get a kick out of some of these discussions. My 1990 Buick gets a consistant 29 MPG highway and 18 city if I don’t drive like an idiot. I find it amusing that the new GMs are not much better then this. Its amazing and I guess good, since they make more power and pass tighter emissions laws. But c’mon GM why would I get rid of a car that works well and replace it with one thats marginally better for such a big price jump. To me it makes little sense. Now on the other hand I wouldn’t have the same argument for a BMW Diesel or VW Diesel. Why? Well because it would be a significant improvement in fuel millage. Not to mention the brand name factor. For some reason GM just has a negative spin on things. To me its because they push value and not high tech. When It comes time to buy a car, I’m either going to buy something that I think is high technology and a step up from what I have. Otherwise I’ll just keep saving until I can afford something that is what I want. Afterall keeping my present car running is cheaper then buying a new one and incurring the depreciation. I’m guessing though I’m not in the majority on buy style. I guess people out there settle for lesser cars, or maybe they have lower standards. Now if Buick came out with a RWD or AWD car based on the G8 chassis, and turned it into a nice buick. I’d probably take that over the brands I listed above… Though turning down 38-44 real MPG highway is a tough thing to do for me, especially when we talk twin turbos on a diesel, there’s a certain cool factor I find in turbo diesels and turbo engines in general. Again GM missed that mark for me. I’m sure I’m not the only one who feels that way (as seen on this blog site).
As to their technology, the list of cars you compare them to shows exactly what I’m talking about. I hardly acknowledge that Hyundai, and Chrysler exist. Maybe thats nieve of me as I’m sure they make good cars, but every Hyundai and Chrysler I’ve seen and worked on is junk. Honda does a good job though. Honda and Toyota have one thing in common GM could learn from. They offer a handfull of cars (what 6 of them each?) and have tons of sub models. AND their options packages make sense and give you some nice features for a reasonable cost. More then I can say about GM. Did I even mention the difference in overhead between these three companies? Last I checked Toyota uses Lean Engineering practices, Honda probably isn’t far off. So DI, Telematics, hybrids, variable damping technology. These things have been around for a while in cars, GM wasn’t the first to offer a hybrid, nor were they the first to offer DI on an engine, and Telematics, I’m pretty sure they weren’t the first for either. About the only thing GM did first was cylinder deactivation, and initially that didn’t work well. But instead of persue it, it was a novelty item offered for only a few years. THEN it was reintroduced as a miracle idea. GM you could have implemented it years ago, what too so long? And by the time they did, the engines it works on are mostly outdated. I suppose you haven’t read up on stratified charge engines? I’m waiting to see this one from GM. but I doubt they’ll get there first or do it better then anyone else. To me that matters, it shows they have initiative and are innovative. But as it is the SC engine isn’t going to be available until 2015?? Thats another problem I have with GM, the Solstice was an awesome car when they first showed it. But 5-6 years later when it finnally hit the streets.. well its OLD news, its a decent car but they shouldn’t have showed the car so soon. That is GMs problem they have to show their cars and get feedback before even considering them. Rather then having people who are confident enough and ahead of the curve enough to say this is what people will like start making it we’ll tweak it after some review. GM has to seek approval before it does anything because its so bloated that it cant’ afford anything that doesn’t sell (not that thats necissarily a bad thing). It just shows their weakness. And I still say they are following. They are riding on the coat tales of the imports, who have been setting the trend for at least the past 5 years. When GM learns how to set the trends they will be on top again in my book. But really, advertising a CTS as a 5 series competition? for half the price? Hello…. for half the price I’m probably getting 2/3 the car… and If I’m a customer willing to buy a 5 series do you really think a car like the CTS is going to appeal to me? Nope, GM missed their mark again. You want to compete with the 5 series, buy a few and take them apart. get it all right, and you have a chance. But certainly not at that price point.
Personally I see the CTS as a 3 series competiton, and at that its just this year gotten to the point where I could consider comparing them, but some of GMs technology is still behind, as good as they try to advertise it. GM I applaud the effort, keep it up, maybe I WILL buy a car from you in the next few years, but it had better be good. Again GM isn’t out there saying well maybe a customer might want this or this or that or that. Instead they say well this is what they’ve bought before… and in doing so they stagnate. Customers want options, especially if they are going to shell out for a brand new car (which for some is a significant percent of their annual income).
Jerry Peck
Well….to those of you with little belief; I am real. I am the 63 year old guy from St Clair Shores, Michigan. And yes, I am turning in my Lexus LS430 for the new Malibu (with every available option.)
I have known my friend Woody (Anaheim Chevy Dealer) for 30+ years. I have been in and out of the car business for the 30 years. My last stint was in sales and then as pre-owned manager of a major Lexus dealer in this area. As pre-owned manager I have seen and bought most all high end luxury cas, both as trades and at auctions. I have driven most all of them. None can compare with Lexus!
I am not in the business now. But, as you guys know it never really leaves your blood. I still detail my own cars. Woody is the only one better than me at detailing.
This is first GM car since my last Corvette in 1979. This is the first American built car that hit me between the eyes but I must admit that fuel prices, the cost of luxury imports and not supporting American cars were all factors that I considered.
Bottom line; I can’t wait for delivery, and I really am flying to Anaheim for delivery and driving it back to Michigan.
Thanks Bob Lutz for designing a great car. You hit out of the park with this “bad boy”!
See you soon Woody!
Jerry Peck
jerrypeck@comcast.net
Nate
Mr. Peck,
You are a perfect person to ask a few questions. I’m sure you have read or skimmed over my above discussions, what is your take on the import vs GM issue?
You’ve been driving imports and Lexus cars for quite some time from the sounds of it. Has it been because GM cars weren’t the in thing to drive or because they were in the lower price range (you sound like an exec type)?
Is GM lacking in high end cars with features and technology that competes with the likes of Lexus? I have spoken to a few people who simply think that GM is behind the curve. The apperent appeal of Lexus and other cars like them is the notion that they are buying one of the best, most high tech, sophisticated cars out there. It appears often that GM doesn’t have this said about them?
Am I correct in saying this (of the past, prior to the new Malibu)?
On the front of the CTS and its competition from Germany (VW, Audi, BMW)and Japan (Lexus, Infiniti,Acura) is the CTS really technologically advanced enough to be put into the must have category? What about the rest of their cars?
I realize you are probably a bit biased toward GM after the purchase of your Malibu. But curiosity makes me wonder what it was or is about non GM cars that make people flock to them. What is it that GM hasn’t captured?
It will be interesting to hear your response as someone who has driven many of the high end cars out there.
sheth
nate:
If you are going to critcize GM you should be accurate. Its apparent you don’t know nearly as much about the auto industry as you think.
1. GM has more 6 speeds on its models than Hyundai, Honda, Chrysler or Nissan. Honda doesn’t even offer a 6 speed auto yet.
2. GM pioneered Magneride on the last gen STS. HOnda/Acura, Chrysler, Toyota, etc. do not offer this technology or anything comparable.
3. GM offered 240hp in a family sedan back in 1997. Toyota, Nissan and Honda were not even close in hp at that time.
4. GM has two models under $30k with DI engines and soon there will be four. Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, Ford, etc. have ZERO. Toyota only offers DI on Lexus models
5. GM was using stability control in the US before anyone except Mercedes and they only offered it initially on the S class.
6. No other manufacturer that I know of has a system as comprehensive as Onstar. Acura and Lexus have used the technology under different names. They wouldn’t use it if it wasn’t worthwhile technology.
7. GM wasnt the first to offer hybrids but it currently has more hybrids for sale than anyone except Toyota. Honda currently offers ZERO hybrid models. Same for BMW, MB and Chrysler. Nissan has one but it uses Toyota technology. Nissan wont have another model for 2-3 years.
8. The 2L turbo, 2.4L ecotec, 3.6L, 6.2L V8, 4.2l I-6, 4.2L supercharged V8, LS7, 3.7L I-5 and 3.5L V6 are all recent or heavily revised engines that GM has introduced in recent years. The idea that they have done nothing but reuse the same old engines is laughable.
So you see GM is not nearly as far behind as you may think.
sheth
Bob,
I think it is ESSENTIAL that you guys reach out to the CarShare organizations. I am in Philly and PHillycarshare is becoming HUGE. They do not offer ONE non import vehicle in their fleet. I feel the Malibu I-4 and hybrid would be excellent choices for PCS but GM will likely have to reach out to them to make this happen. As far as I can tell they are totally import focused and will not even consider American cars because they are likely brainwashed into believing that all American vehicles are large gas guzzlers. As proof they are anti domestic you should note they have many Matrixes in their fleet but will not buy the Vibe. The Prius, Matrix and Scion XB (or whatever) are the most common models I see but they even use the 328, Impreza and Mazda3.
The CarShare vehicles are seen all over town with their logo and are great advertising for the organization and the vehicles in the fleet. I see no reason why the Malibu, Aura, Vue hybrid, HHR, Vibe and Aveo shouldn’t be used in the fleet. I think GM should try to the first domestic maker to crack the CarShare fleet. I bet most of the young people who use the service have not set foot inside a GM vehicle since they were pre-teens and would be shocked to find out that GM makes nice cars today.
SCOTT
Why are we still selling the deal instead of the product.0% for 60 & 1.9% for 72 is what I thought Gm was getting away from
Dan
I’ve got a question for anyone. Do you think that Saturn operates largely as an incubator for Chevrolet products? I am thinking mostly of the Aura which was released to great acclaim, but without marketing last year. Some improvements were made, and it is now the even better and even more acclaimed Malibu, backed by a massive marketing campaign.
Joe, Cleveland OH
Jerry,
I’m sure there are many factors in addition to those you’ve mentioned to influence you to trade in one of the most renowned luxury sedans in the world for, uh, a Chevy. You don’t need to go into all of them. But I would have a very hard time doing such a thing if I could afford a $65k car. If most people could afford such cars, I bet they honestly wouldn’t even look at any GM product outside a Corvette Z06.
Michelle
I’m the Arizona woman Bob spoke of above on November 15th who purchased the Saturn Sky in California. My only reservation about this beautifully designed car was the limited trunk space. After 11 months of re-defining for myself ‘joyriding,’ I can honestly say that in 16 years of driving I have never been so thrilled to ride and look at a car every day. Even tonight I fit 11 grocery bags in the trunk. With the top down, I put a full-size laser color printer in its box with a scanner in its box in the passenger seat - it was most funny because the customer who bought the very same laser printer could not fit his into his HUMMER - the box was simply too big to fit. We had a great laugh as I drove off with it in my “tiny” convertible. My only complaint is the constant - at least twice a week - annoyance of people either gathered around my car when I return to her, asking for me to open the doors and trunk to see, or the people who roll down their windows at red lights to ask me about this show-stopper of a car. I’m generally a nice person, but I since have had to learn to be assertive: Sir, I’m not being rude, I just have to go now and please understand you are the third person today who wants to talk about my car!
Thanks Robert, you really did make a dream come true for this gal in the desert, and yes, it was worth the drive to the ocean.
JoyRiding,
Michelle
Michael
Okay, maybe the anecdote is true, maybe it’s not. But there is MUCH more to the reason some of us stopped buying GM–it goes beyond the cars or the charm Bob Lutz oozes from every pore (thanks, AJL, for that one). It’s the way the company has treated its customers for the past 30 years. It’s not just the cars falling apart that made us angry–it’s the way GM handled the situation when they did fall apart.
To wit, I once owned a Cadillac, the top of the line GM car. My father (with a few side trips to Lincoln) always bought Cadillacs. So when I bought one I though that at last I had a great car that wouldn’t give me a lot of grief.
The ONLY car on which the catalytic converter EVER died was that Cadillac–on the highway, no less. But then trying to get GM to honor the warrantee on a SIX-MONTH-OLD car was the real nightmare. “I’m sorry, sir, we don’t cover that; they never break.” [Real quote, and yes, they do.] I had to escalate this matter to the regional manager (why? it was supposed to be under warantee), who treated me as if I was some sort of criminal. Then again, I have learned GM regional managers truly hate customers and cannot be bothered trying to sort out problems for which they are responsible. No matter. The attitude was clear.
Once upon a time (in 1975), I bought my first Chevy from this same dealership in Anaheim, CA (Woody Oklejas, I believe) Maybe this man is nice to Michigan customers, but my experience at his dealership was far worse. When I bought the car, the tachometer didn’t work, but I was promised it would be fixed in a week. THREE MONTHS LATER, after I finally screamed bloody murder to the GM regional office (that should have given me a hint of things to come), I received a call from the dealer’s general manager saying it was my fault the dealership had taken so long to get the problem fixed (I’m still not sure why or how it was my fault, but I was a kid at the time–and this dealership was not above intimidating customers). I tell this story only because I had some doubts about the veracity of anything that comes from Anaheim Chevrolet. If Bob Lutz can tell and foist anecdotes on us, I can tell and foist a few right back at him.
The NY Times recently ran a story about why GM can’t convince people to buy its cars, even though they are supposedly better than before. So let’s clear up the mystery right now. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me (and I’ve been shamed more times than than, I’m afraid). The reason we’re not going to buy GM cars any more is very simple: we don’t believe a word that’s being said to us. For the past 30 years, GM told us it was going to make better cars; they were worse. For the past 30 years, GM said it made the best cars of all, and as loyal Americans, we should buy GM (but ignore the flaking paint and knobs falling off the interiors of the cars in the showrooms). Ten years ago, GM said it would not build a hybrid because Americans wouldn’t buy them. We bought them (I love my hybrid Camry, in fact). Four years ago, GM apologized for selling bad cars (the Road to Redemption ad campaign), but it kept selling bad cars and had to yank the ads. And now we have the Malibu, GM’s “breakthrough” car. I have a problem with this. If Malibu is the breakthrough for GM in 2008, does this mean every OTHER car GM is selling now is just typical GM junk? Think about that for a minute and you’ll see the folly in the campaign (you can’t ignore the Malibu, but have fun trying to find the Cobalt in a sea of small cars).
The story that kicked off this blog? Lies, more lies, and typical GM obfuscations. Sorry, that really is the way I see the world from GM. And yes, I am a big fan of Gary Dikkers.
Rick Lupori
Mr. Lutz: Congratulations on the sale of a loaded Malibu LTZ to a Lexus owner - now about the other 419,999 GM needs to sell in the next year to be a true contender in the midsize market.
As Nate points out, GM has a horrible option/feature mix on it’s cars, across the board.
G6 - No Foglights on 2.4L models and no 6-way power seat unless you order leather.
6-speed Manual dropped after brief offering period an no advertising This is a ‘performance car’?
Aura - No Foglights on 2.4L or 3500 V6 models, no memory seats, no Nav system or Bluetooth. This is a Honda/Acura competitor?
Malibu - No Foglights on 2.4L model, 3500 V6 for rental fleets (even though it is the most popular engine with current GM midsize owners), Foldflat passenger seat deleted, no heated mirrors on LT models.
Impala - No Foglights on 3500 models and no 8-way power seat unless you order leather.
LaCrosse (the worst optioned car on the market) - No Foglights on 3800 models, no more than 6-way power seating, no nav or bluetooth.
This is a luxury car?
Bob, please revise the Malibu options to offer the 3500 for retail customers, and add foglights and heated mirrors to the LT trim level.
For 2009 add AFM to the 3500 and E-85 capability. Even with the 4-speed atuomatic a 3500 with AFM should have a 20/31 MPG EPA rating and a properly geared 6-speed should bump it to 20/32 MPG.
The bottom line Mr. Lutz, give me a reason to trade a 1998 Malibu with 3100 V6 that gets 24/30 MPG for a 2008 one that gives me V6 power and 4-cylinder MPG like my 1998 Malibu has for 10 years.
Otherwise you’ll find me at the Ford dealer buying a Taurus or Taurus X (a great alternative for all you Malibu Maxx orphans). I like both and they have Fog Lights, Fold Down Passenger seats and memory 8-way seats at a reasonable price.
Of course I just may buy a Lincoln MKZ since Ford is willing to put real luxury features on it.
It is a shame that someone who has purchased 5 GM products in the past 10 years is forced to go elsewhere for my next 5 vehicles over the next 10 years.
Tomoe1
I saw the new Malibu over the weekend at a local dealership. They had the LS, LT and a pre-production Hybrid. The car is great but the dealership salespeople need to brush up on selling the car. “I’m sorry we just got the cars in” doesn’t cut it anymore. Hell, I already knew the answer to my question as I did a web search ahead of the visit. Too bad the dealership didn’t take that much effort. You can build a fine car but the dealership experience will kill the deal. Needless to say I won’t be buying a car from them.
P.S. even though I told the salesmen I did not want to take a test drive upfront - throughout the viewing he asked me no less than 4 times if I want to drive it and even said: I need to take a copy of your license”. What part of “I’m not here to test drive it” didn’t the salesman understand. Believe it or not my visit was to check out the new GM “fit and finish” quality.
Nate
Sheth,
I may be eating my words on this one, but:
1) When did I mention the 6 speeds (sorry I’ve posted to many times to remember them all). BUT I do beleive the German companies make them as well and their cars are pretty close price wise. And certainly quite a few people think the quality is better.
2) Magnaride (ferromanetic and rheomagnetic fludis) are used by the German companies.
3) The only vehicle in 1997 that I’m aware of that had 240 HP was the Supercharged GMs, which back then were ok, but since then GM has been surpassed by the likes of Infinity, Acura and Lexus, not to mention BMW (have you seen the new twin turbo 3 series). 240 HP is the benchmark from a few years ago, 300+ seems to be the NEW benchmark. BTW what 240 HP GMs are you talking about, all that comes to mind are the Aurora and the 3800 SII SC.
4) GM has DI engines, but last I checked so does Honda (the new Civic) and I beleive one of the German companies (not sure which).
5) GM may have stability control but from everything I’ve both heard and read its not nearly as good as other companies. In fact I’ve read about the way BMW implementes it. GM has it but they don’t “Have it”. Meaning yeah they have a stability system but its no where near as good as BMWs.
6) Onstar may be powerful, but I don’t think anyone else would think about the cost of launching satellites when they can lease or rent time on GMs. I also don’t think Onstar is really that impressive a feature. I think its more marketing hype then actual use.
7) Who cares about the number of hybrids when they aren’t really that great a hybrid. Why is it GM people are soooo concerned about numbers? They think that by being the biggest, or selling the most they are the best. That is not the case, only people in business tend to think that way (in my experience). Thats flawed thinking. If this werent’ the case GM would be selling more.
I’m not sure where you have been but the Honda Civic is available as a hybrid (though may be sold out) and there was also the Honda Insight. Lets not forget about the Lexus hybrid.
Well you have a point on the Ecotec, 3.6, 4.2, 4.2L S V8, 3.7 and 3.5 V6. But the LS series engines and the now older 3.4/3.5L engines were old, the 3800 S2 is still being used. Yeah these were good engines, but I’m waiting for GM to bring out more engines like the new CTS 3.6, this I consider a high tech engine (and officially isn’t out yet at least in the US). I think until they get DI in the LS engines and their whole lineup they are behind the times. Up until about a year or two ago they had done nothing but reuse their old engines with minor revisions. Which I know is the way to do product development. But you have to look around the auto world and know that there are other companies doing way more with their engines. Lexus, Infinity, BMW, VW/Audi/Porsche, Nissan, Toyota all have variable valve timing in most of their cars. GM JUST introduced it in the Caddys with the STS and a few other GM modesl. It has been out for a few years, certainly longer them GM has had it. Again they are behind in technology. Now this doesn’t factor in the effectiveness of this technology. Marketing is against GM in this case because people perceive high tech as better (and engineers know this isn’t always the case). But I do think its safe to say that GM missed the boat until recently on much of this. Again they are behind. They are following the industry. GM just released the CTS V6 as a 300 HP DI engine, The Infinity G37 that will be out for 2008 has 330 HP. Again GM triumphs 300 HP in the CTS but their competitor has topped them. Sure you could get a CTSV but thats a different price point. BMW offers the 3 Series with 230 HP or a twin turbo 300 HP engine. GM barely has them matched. Again GM has to compete with not only the Japanese brands but also the Germans. They will be able to do so in about 3-4 years at their current pace, but they need to think ahead and try to get their products out first, not just a few things here and there. Of course I’m being extra harsh since I’m trying to drive home the point that GM is behind. In some ways they are fine or have some nice technology, but if people dwell on that GM will never get on stride and step ahead. Sometimes I write this and think GM doesn’t ever even read these. I can’t imagine Bob Lutz having the time to track all these blogs. I hope he does, maybe all this discussion will put GM back on the map around the world. But I don’t think it will. American car companies seem to misjudge things in the US. At least for some of us. I guess this is where my passion fo GM products is problematic (and why I may not buy a GM). Other brands fill in the gaps that GM leaves and those gap filling products appeal to me. I wish GM could but clearly they don’t think they need to. Oh well their mistake.
BTW What is CarShare?
Want to get young buyers? Do what Toyota did with Scion. Saturn used to KIND Of be that, but the best thing GM has is Pontiac and Caddy, Pontiac, but they will be dealing with brand name memories with them. They need to invent a new brand or restructure their current brands.
Scott,
GM sells the deal because they can’t backup their words. They have to do that to sell product, else it sits.
Dan,
I don’t think Saturn is made for that. I think GM got lucky with the Aura. They got all three brands CLOSE in my book, but not perfect. in fact I think the G6 is closest to its intended audience, though I haven’t a clue what that audience really is. They still managed to miss the boat in my opinion. Now if the Aura had the Malibu Dash I think it’d look great. Then again I hate the squared off Bow Tie emblem (to old school).
Saturn has always been a low budget customer oriented brand, but as slowly been competing with more and more GMs. Saturn used to be more like Honda or Toyota’s small brands, affordable family cars, minimal thrills, minimal interiors but not to plain. And they used to be well known for their Customer Service, not sure if that still stands.
I’ve mentioned this before but I think GM needs to drop Chevy, it serves NO purpose except to keep the name sake burning which I think is rediculous. GM should ax Chevy, Move the low budget cars to the Saturn line, the Low End trucks to GMC (or even Ax GMC and move the low end trucks to Saturn), Pontiac should be dropped and its high end performance cars pushed to Caddy, and the middle and low end to Buick. The high end vehicles go to Caddy. This makes the divison in brands very clear. Saturn is entry level/inexpensive (G5 and Cobalt etc..), Buick is normal cars and luxuary (to compete with Lexus and Toyota), Caddy is to compete with BMW and MB etc.. and for trucks GMC/Saturn/Caddy. This gets rid of a lot of image problems. It will anger a lot of people but they will get over it, a lot did when Olds died.
Joe,
You have an execlent point, see my above idea. The comments you made are exactly how I see things as well. I would love to hear why a Lexus driver switched to a Chevy. I could see a Buick or Caddy, but not a Chevy, maybe even a Pontiac or Saturn but a Chevy to me has always been a bare bones car. (Hows that for brand image GM).
Michelle,
Its a shame to hear that the car has brought you so much attention.
Michael,
You have a point, GM didn’t always handle things very well, I think this above other things is one of the problems they need to over come and I don’t see how their current brand strategy will do this. They need to reinvent themselves again like they did with Saturn but in a better way.
When we had some engine problems under warranty the dealer refused to honor the warranty. When we had some problems with a water seperation unit on a GM 6.5 TDiesel van GM refused to honor the warranty. Despite the fact that their system was supposed to prevent this contamination from entering the fuel pump system (see definition of water seperator). GM needs to re-evaluate their warranty issues. (Though how do other brands handle this). I remember all of our 1990 model cars having paint issues and interior problems.
As a paying customer I shouldn’t have to deal with this, and that I think is why people don’t buy GMs, other people say what they mean and mean what they say. GM on the other hand tells about “improved perceived quality” what exactly does that mean? Should that read improved deceived quality?
You make a good point GM says what they don’t mean to I guess. I think the CTS is worth about 4-5K less then GM is selling it for.
Michael well put, I hope GM is listening and sees the light. Else I hope they go under. I get tired of hoping they release something I’ll like and never do. And I have been impressed by some of their cars but not when I compare them to other cars out there in the same price range.
Rick,
I think if GM changed its branding and feature packaging it would be a big step in the right direction (see above in this post). Simplify the seperation of buyer level. Entry Level, Mid Level, Luxuary, High performance/ High Luxuary. Or Saturn, Buick, Caddy, GMC (optional). Then offer each car with a few different trim levels, aka 3 or so engine options and trim levels. It makes a lot of sense marketing wise and logistically. Toyota, Honda, Nissan, all have a high end and regular car (Lexus, Acura, Infiniti), VW/Audi/Porsche, BMW, MB all have multiple trim levels. Its the same car but with different option combinations. Not a different named car with the same options but different looks (which to me makes no sense). GM needs to drop at least Chevy, move the Vette to caddy or even Buick, OR better yet make the Vette its own performance brand, throw the G8 up there.
If GM is going to keep its current branding scheme it needs to:
GM needs to combine the Malibu and Aura, and keep the G6, Add Nav and full power seats (c’mon its supposed to compete with Toyota, Nissan, Honda and VW).
I’d bet a year’s sallary that if GM dropped chevy and rebaged the current cars into other brands, then phased out the models. Repackaged options that they’d see a difference in sales. How can you have that many brands competing with each other (with nearly identical products). If you want to see what I mean, take a look at Apple Computer in the mid 90s and compare them to now. They simplified brand naming, and reduced the number of products they had, and have slowly been bringing back key products. GM should think about it.
Good point why isn’t GMs ENTIRE fleet Flex Fuel, and Active Fuel management.
GM has missed the Nav and Blue tooth, iPod integration that young people like today. Even Ford gets it (and thats bad in my book).
Tomoe,
Good point GM does need to make its sales people more aware. If you don’t know a product how can you sell it? Today’s car buyer is more educated then ever before, and that is another reason that other brands are doing well. Technological saavy people are looking for cars that match their tech level.
What ever happend to the always be closing motto of sales? But with a polite twist?
C’mon GM get it together.
Nate H.
I don’t really buy the whole “lets shed our Lexus for a Malibu” bit either. I mean, really. Comparing upscale refinement, top quality ride, top quality build to a $20,000 car is rediculous. Even IF one guy did it, so? Do I really want to be like that? Do I really value that information? Nope.
How many folk traded in their Lexus 460’s for Acrua TL’s and saved quite a bit of money?
Next it will be “this one guy traded his BMW for a top-of-the-line 2008 Cobalt. With Leather-like seats!”
Nate
sheth
nate,
I was wrong about Honda, they do have ONE hybrid. The rest of your post is riddled with inaccuracies that show that you are willing to criticize GM without knowing the facts. First of all the two mode hybrids are REAl hybrids in that they can operate at low speeds without the engine just like Toyota’s hybrids. The BAS hybrids cannot operate without the engine and that is one reason why their mileage gains arent as substantial.
You are totally off base on the DI engines. The G35/G37 do not even have DI. They generate their power with other technologies and by revving extremely high. The G37 makes more power than every competing 6 cylinder in the market, not just the CTS. Your logic that the G37s output proves that GM is behind the times is spurious. The C350 doesn’t even have DI yet. Neither does the TL, RL or the upcoming Lincoln sedan. The CTS has more output than the 335i without forced induction. You are incorrect in stating the Civic has DI because it does not. No Honda has this technology and only one Acura has this technology. BMW and VW/Audi use DI technology in some models. The VW 2L with DI makes 200hp while the GM 2L makes 260hp. You tell me which engine is more advanced. MB and Jaguar do not use DI yet so GM is ahead of some European makes with this technology.
Magneride is only used on a handful of vehicles in this market. The E class, 5 series and Lexus GS do not have this technology but the STS, DTS and Lucerne do have this technology. Its that simple. Furthermore, Gm has offered it since 2003.
German manufacturers lead in 6 speed autos but they are also more expensive than AMerican and Asian vehicles generally speaking. GM has more 6 speeds available in non luxury models than Toyota or Honda or Hyundai. Period. Toyota offers 6 speeds in three models not including Lexus. GM offers 6 speeds in at least 8 models not including Cadillac. Once the G8 comes out you can add one more.
As for Stabilitrak is has been praised as one of the least intrusive systems available by the enthusiast mags. Lexus has been known to offer one of the most intrusive and easily engaged systems out. On top of that GM has competition modes on vehicles like the Vette that allow you to push the car hard without activating the system. Stabilitrak is one the best out there if you read up on the system instead of speculating.
As for VVT, GM has been using it Caddy models since the CTS came out in 2002. You need to do some research. The northstar has had VVT since the SRX came out in 2003. MB didnt use VVT on its engines until the 3.5L DOHC V6 came out a few years back. MB V8s didn’t have VVT until the 5.5L V8 debuted in the S class. GM has VVT on engines across the board now including OHV V6s and V8s. Ford and Chrysler only have VVT on a handful of models.
as for hp, the Regal and Grand Prix had 240hp back in 1997/1998 and the GP moved up to 260hp in 2003 with the redesign. GM has been offering 303hp in this segment since 2005 when the Grand Prix GXP came out. As far as I know that is more power than any Asian midsize sedan. GM has had the upper hand in midsize sedan hp for a while now.
Its apparent you arent inrerested in anything GM makes so I don’t see why posting here is helpful. Perhaps you will be happier with another brand since you aren’t willing to give GM credit where it’s due.
sheth
nate,
a few more points.
1. cylinder deactivation couldnt be reliable until more complex electronics were available. This is why GM nor anyone else had this technology properly implemented until recently. In 2007 only GM, Chrysler and Honda are using this technology tomy knowledge. You may dismiss GM on this front but they have it in more vehicles than anyone else. Toyota doesn’t have this technology in any product.
You mentioned GM lacking high end engine applications but failed to mention the most powerful GM engines make 469hp and 505hp. The most powerful Toyota engine makes 381hp. It’s 330hp for Nissan/Infiniti (until GT-R), 425hp for Chrysler and 300hp for Honda. Hyundai hasn’t gotten close to 300hp yet. The way I see it GM is ahead of all but a few German makes when it comes to low volume, high output, high technology engines. Also, GM’s 2.4L ecotec makes more power than Toyota’s 2.4L or Ford’s 2.3L. GM’s 3.6L DOHC V6 in the lambda SUVs makes more power than the non-DI Toyota 3.5L or Honda’s 3.5L V6 in the Accord or Pilot or Ford’s 3.5L V-6 or Nissan’s version of the 3.5L V6. Sorry, but all the evidence goes to show that your perception of GM’s powertrains is off base.
kurtW
Jerry P, I hope your new Malibu works well for you.
I got to see the new Malibu compared to a current Toyota Camry. The Toyota looked surprisingly cheap inside, with flexy door handles, weak-support seats and the general flavor of slipping quality.
The Malibu had a more solid interior, though I really wish brushed metal was used instead of chrome (a real glare-pain in the eyes on sunny climates or afternoons). The seats were more comfortable and supportive.
My only regret is the ‘bu is bigger than before, yet with less useable trunk space than my now discontinued Maxx. It’s a real pity GM-Chevy never figured out how to martket the Maxx (which most reviewers preferred over the sedan versions), as Saab, Subaru and others manage to sell plenty of wagonetes/hatchs/avants/etc.
Nate
Sheth,
I’m not going to argue to much since I think we both have made a few errors in some posts. I’m not familiar with the BAS acronym. To my knowledge there are two types of hyrbids out there series and parallel. When I said REAL hybrid I was refering to the Saturn, and Malibu (and G6??) I barely consider 5-10 HP a hybrid worth discussing. It does have its merits and it is indeed a hyrbid, but I’m not sure it has all the benefits of a parallel hybrid system.
You seem to be correct on the DI engines, however I am sure that GM isn’t the only one. Perhaps I was reading about future engines and mixing them up with currently available engines. I am glad to see GM has DI engines finnaly. But I was pretty sure that they were not the first on the gasoline DI engines. I’m sure that the Germans have a few cars that use DI and at least a few of the Japanese cars do as well, perhaps only on the high end ones though.
Well to me that fact that there is another car in the size range of the CTS with more power says a lot. However you make a point that HP numbers aren’t the end all. Acceleration times, dyno curve shape, and power to weight ratio are better indicators of engine performance. How ever I think throughout this discussion you will notice that the facts aren’t always what people hear and see, and this of course is one of the biggest problems GM has to deal with. Magazines often throw around HP numbers as if they are an end all rating. Of course I know this isn’t the truth but hwo many others do?
In some ways I’m more in the know then the average GM customer.
C350?? Sorry not familiar with that acronym.
Hmm VW making only 200 HP, only in the Passat it seems, though it has anoptional 280 HP engine avaialble. Which raises a question, if GM uses a 3.6 L to make 300 HP WITH DI, what will happen when next year VW or other compeitiors goto DI, will they exceed the HP numbers GM has? (BTW take a look at the VW site, its quite foreign to me, and definatly seems geared toward a different type of buyer) Additionally what cars can you actually get the 260 HP 2L in? Are they comparable to a VW Passat in size and weight? To my knowledge the 2L Turbo is only in the Solstice and maybe the Cobalt/G5 though I thought they were still using the Super charger on that engine. So can I buy a GM with a turbo? In the past there haven’t been many models available. To bad. So… yes you are right that in some ways the GM 2L turbo is better, BUT since its not offered in a sedan or anything comparable I discount the point you are making. And I will rehash one of my previous points why not offer it?
GM once again HAS this engine in its parts bin but reserves it for only certain cars. Why? (besides the obvious point that they can probably get better results with a 3.9L (G6 only) makeing 260 HP Or the new 3.6L with 252 HP. Well I still give the point to VW they have more power available if desired, sorry GM, 280 > then 252 or 260. Hmm weight/HP ratio (3415lbs/252 lbs) 13.5515 for the Malibu, and 3829/280 = 13.675 for the VW passat with the largest engine. Not bad how much does that 0.1235 make to the customer?
Well GM is ahead of MB and Jag, but I don’t think they area ahead of BMW at least with the V6 engines.
As for the Magna ride, it appears that you are somewhat correct. I’m sure that GM isn’t the only one to offer this. As a side note though I found this (http://www.jdpower.com/articles/article.aspx?ID=550) which discusses some of the things I compare the CTS options with. I particularly am amazed by what I have read about the BMW traction and stability controls (more so then the magnaride like devices).
So yes the GM has magna ride in a few key cars, but what about the new G8 and some of the lower end cars? Again why not make this an option? Not everyone likes big performance cars (see the BMW 1 series).
German manufacturers might lead in 6 speed autos, but I had heard that GM and one of the german car makers teamed up to produce the 6 speed autos. Of course I’ve also heard that GM manufacturers autos for BMW.
As for 6 speed manuals, GM doesn’t really offer them in key cars, Malibu, Impala Grand Prix etc… They offer them in the V8s (GTO, vette, and Trucks), but not in the STS, Grand Prix, Impala, Malibu, and Buicks. Some of them don’t need manuals, but some of them should have the option to be competitive with the likes of BMW. Though I think GM could get away with a better implementation of their manually shifted autos.
As far as active stability goes, No doubt that GM has a decent system. But I remember reading about the system BMW uses about a year or two ago, when it was being tested on a forzen lake. At that time GM had nothing that could touch it. I have not heard of options like BMW offers, to actually customize the programming of stabili track. Yeah its over the top, but why not offer something like it.
I have also noticed that GMs stability system on the C5 Vette wasn’t nearly as sophisticated as other cars it was competing against (Ferrari, Porsche etc..).
How many cars have the competition mode like the vette has? I think GM should offer that on its entire top of the line performance cars.
GM has been using VVT for a while, one thing that has been unclear is exactly what/how it works. It is my impression that it is somewhat limited compared to other systems out there, I’ll have to do some digging on it.
The fact that they finnally have VVT is a big plus in my book. For years their engines weren’t really that impressive (thinking back to the 60 degree V6s, 90 degree V6s and the older 4 cylinder engines). Back then other companies had VVT like devices that allowed variable cams. I’ve even heard BMWs Valvetronic and VANOS system allows both variable cam phasing and lift.
There have been numerous companies that have used forms of VVT long before GM used it in production. (and thats the point I’m making here.. GM finnally put VVT in their engines).
From what I understand the CTS VVT is only cam phasing and not valve lift. So Again BMW has the upper hand on VVT (and whatever company has variable lift).
How many of the VVT engines also have displacement on demmand?
As for the HP, I don’t really count cramming a V8 into a Grand Prix to get the 300 HP segment. The reason being that most of their competition is doing it with 6 cylinders. The 2008 CTS is the first one to do it with 6 (that I can think of). 260P from the 3800 is close but was that supercharged? Other cars in the class were doing the same thing without superchargers, some with smaller engines. Again I consider that to be slightly behind. Sure GM can do it but the way they do it is why I consider them behind.
As of right now the G35 sedan has 303 HP, and it has been out since 2007. So again GM isn’t a first there. Adiditonally the GP GXP is Front wheel drive. The Infiniti G35 is rear wheel drive and available as all wheel drive. Something the CTS will offer for 2008.
Additionally this year the 3 series will be offered with a 300 HP turbo engine.
I hardly consider cramming a V8 into a car to be the best solution. Especially when you consider that other companies were putting that kind of power out with smaller engines. Though I guess it works for GM to an extent.
Customers probably wonder why GM resorts to a big V8 when other companys can get away with smaller engines.
I’m not sure about you but I notice an aweful lot of things that GM hasn’t been doing for a while, that they finnally are doing. That is a good thing, but honestly its not quite worth all the hype that is surrounding them. Not yet. When GM can exceed its competition in features and options and quality, and be competitive with price, then its time to think about celebrating how good they are.
As another side note here are two interesting links I found to the 2008 CTS engine, not sure of the authenticity of them:
http://drupal.caddyinfo.com/?q=node&page=7
But what I will now say is that I still think GM is behind the curve in other areas. Stability systems, pushrod engines which lack variable valve timing, dual overhead cams that lack displacement on demmand, etc…
I see your point, GM has come a long way in 5 years. But they also have a long way to go.
If you dont’ think I should be posting here, I must ask why would you post here to simply tell GM how good they are. Positive feedback only goes so far. Constructive criticisim on the other hand is equally as useful to them. Sure we think they are going in the right direction, but how about telling them a few areas to investigate and think about? Afterall if someone thats been a GM enthusiast their whole life says thes kinds of things about GM what do customers that don’t even consider GM an option say about them?
I agree that electronics recently have helped quite a bit. But I don’t think it was a lack of electronics as much as the price of them. I also think that GM up until recently has been a creature of habit. They could get buy without these features. But have finnally realized and been foreced to implement more advanced technologies. After all the high technology in cars is what differentiates one brand from another.
I think by high end I meant high technology. But even so they do lack high end engines. Sure the LS series is making a lot of HP and to that I give them credit but it even lacks VVT and displacement on demmand. I think VVT would be more impressive. Additionally to my knowledege it doesn’t offer direct injection. I can’t imagine a Z06 engine with direct injection, the power and economy increase would be awesome.
Honestly the last high tech engine GM made in a V8 was the LT5 engine. Though by todays standards its really not that high tech. The LS series is a good engine series for trucks and the corvette, but how is GMs flag ship going to compete with V10s and V12s with high technology? Its not about specs in that case its about bragging rights. People buying BMW M5s and M6s are probably just as interestedin high tech as in performance. The fact that GM doens’t have a car that directly competes in that segment is a different issue for a different day.
The Ecotech engine is actually a good engine. I don’t understand why GM doesn’t push it a bit harder and offer higher end versions in more cars. Which brings me to another question. How many engine models does GM currently have?
I don’t think my perception of GM’s powertrain is off. They lack high technology in places where I think customers look for it. If all things on a car were equal and a customer had the choice between buying two engines with equal horse power output and size, and the only difference was the technology (say DOHC vs pushrod). Which do you think customers would buy? and why? I think some would want the pushrod for simlicity, while others would be more interested in the high tech engine. When it comes time to buy, there are things that make customers choose one car over another. Look at price and features amongst GMs competition. How many customers aren’t buying off of price along? How many are buying off of features?
GM needs to realize that its little things that are tie breakers in a customer’s buying decision. GM seems to have ignored that in the past. Which is why I think this blog is such a great thing for them.
Douglas
Sorry, Bob and GM. I don’t see a future with a GM in my driveway. I haven’t since 1996 or so. No full-size B-Body, no more G-Body FWD Park Avenue (I’ll keep my ‘93 Ultra thanks, running just fine), an ugly W-Body warmed over Monte Carlo is finally gone, sad as it was. And no Impala Coupe, nor new Malibu Coupe. Even the “New Saturn Astra” is a warmed over Delta platform from ‘04/’05…I’ll stop here, Bob……
sheth
nate
Chris (Toronto)
Local Toronto news re OnStar:
“StreetBeat - Nov. 26 - Onboard Monitoring System Alerts Authorities To Car Fire
Monday November 26, 2007
CityNews.ca Staff
Onboard Monitoring System Contacts Police About Car Fire
A vehicle’s onboard monitoring system apparently alerted police to a car fire at York Mills and Victoria Park early Monday.
The car went up in flames after hitting a pole in the area at about 4:30am. The driver, who was seen staggering away from the vehicle and hopping a fence, hasn’t been located. The airbags deployed in the impact, and that’s when the car’s OnStar monitoring system contacted authorities. There’s no word on what caused the collision.”
How many dvd nav systems can do THAT ?
Chris (Toronto)
Rick Lupori
Nate: Drop Chevy?
You may not be aware of this but, Chevy is GM’s new global brand and is selling very well in it’s new markets, and with what I consider a weak lineup.
The Malibu would be the perfect vehicle to spearhead the next market assault, it has the looks, driving dynamics and name recognition with a positve feel (most people in the world have heard of Malibu Beach and who doesn’t like a beach).
The European market model can offer the new 1.9L and 2.9L V6 Turbo-Diesels (later for the U.S. market - please), in addition to the current 2.4L and 3.6L since these engines or in the 2.4L case (2.2L version) are offered in European models.
The Malibu would have to add a MANUAL transmission option since they are popular in Europe, but should be able to get by with the 6-speed autos for the first year or two. The same may be said for a RHD model for British markets, and the Vectra (which the Malibu is partially based on has it).
I think the Malibu would be a big hit in Europe and China and later (with RHD) in England, India, Austraila and even JAPAN.
As for the G6, it needs to go on the RWD Alpha platform as a BMW 1-Series/ lower 3-Series competitor.
The Aura needs to go upmarket with a completely revamped option list that is BETTER THAN all competitors, and even some indirect ones like the Lincoln MKZ and Lexus ES350.
The SAAB 9-3 line will be the new performance model with 3.6L DI and 3.2L DI Turbo engines on top models, 260 HP 2.0L DI Turbo on base ones. Turbo Diesels and Two Mode hybrid E-85 compatable (BioPower) engine offerings with DCT transmissions and XWD to round out powertrains.
Buick could offer a Century model for China based on the LWB Malibu platform, and if sales prospects looked good, offered here, but would rather it was not (better to leave this to the Aura).
Back to the U.S. market Malibu and what GM must do to generate 30,000 to 35,000 sales a month (ANYTHING lower must be considered a TOTAL FAILURE). And yes that is without hurting sales of the Aura, G6 and 9-3 or even the Impala and LaCrosse. All of these models should get similar updates and see increased RETAIL sales and Residuals.
GM must redo the option/feature list of the Malibu to be CLASS leading, GM will never get to the 35,000 sales goals by being “good as” it must be BETTER THAN.
8-way power seats with memory
Heated Side Mirrors
Fog Lights
Adjustable Beam Headlights
High MPG/Low Cost V6 power (3500 V6)
6-speed automatics Standard
Bluetooth capable.
Nav option (at least a jack for GPS Video systems)
Backup Camera option
3.6L DI “SS” model
Rear Seat Arm Rests
Upgraded leather trim with upgraded door panels
Manual or DCT Trans option “SS” maybe?
Otherwise the Malibu will replay the same sad movie GM models always have - big initial sales followed by marketing neglect and “cost cutting” options and features out to “improve margins” only to give it all back in multi-thousand dollar rebates and plummeting residuals.
Secondly GM must offer the 3500 V6 to retail customers in the U.S. In my personal “market research” of current VERY happy GM midsize car owners they were ALL very excited about seeing the new Malibu and asked me about it and became even more interested in it, BUT when told the 3500 V6 was replaced they ALL went to NO SALE.
GM cannot afford to lose one customer - NOT ONE for the new Malibu, but from my feedback they have already lost dozens.
If GM mated a revised 6-speed auto to an AFM 3500 V6 it would probably be rated at 22/34 MPG and could deliver real world 26/35 or even close to 40 MPG in AFM mode at 65 MPH on level highways.
Imagine getting Hybrid highway MPG without the complexity.
A BAS hybrid system (with Lithium Batteries) mated to this 3500 AFM V6 based system should deliver 30 MPG in certain conditions - great power AND great MPG all at a low cost - now that is HIGH TECH.
Oh, and a 3500 VVT AFM V6 is E-85 compatable and easily done since the 3900 VVT AFM V6 is available in the Impala.
Nate
Sheth,
While I may not have my facts all correct, it once again demonstrates a problem that GM has. Misinformation. As a technically oriented person, I find GM provides little technical information, and sometimes little information in general (such is the case on the new CTS AWD system and the ASM system).
1) you make valid points except the Cobalt is definatly not in the size class of the Cobalt sedan. At least not by my standards. So yeah GM has a great engine but I don’t see it being comparable in that case.
2) You are correct about torque, but have you ever tried to compare two engines? Its not an easy thin unless you are familiar with it. The average buyer hears HP and doesn’t understand the relation between HP and torque (HP = torque * RPM/5252 is the rough formula I use) but also many people forget to look at the RPM range in such comparisons.
45 to 75 ftlbs more is ok but what cost is there to weight and handling? Thats the real issue I have, I just see GM compromising for numbers. Sure the 5.3 makes the same power and more torque, but its only availble as a FWD with an auto, and on top of that how does the car really handle compared to other cars in its class? I never really hear much about this from GM, I have to rely on outside sources such as magazines which if I recall gave cars like the GXP an average rating.
Well to me GM has finally offered it its been aroudn for more then 10 years, for the longest time GM had been reusing its Buick V6, Chevy 60 degree V6 and 90 degree V8s. All of these could have had VVT back in the mid 90s, but they didn’t. Additionally GMs high end is behind (as far I can tell since there is limited information on how they acheive VVT). Simply changing cam phasing/timing isn’t really enough in marketing terms. Not when other companies (BMW) have variable lift available. Is it needed, thats hard to say, but it is out there and they are competing with them for high end sales, so GM needs to be in the running on the technology side. And with such limited information I’m not sure if they are or not. As big as GM is innovations like VVT should have happened much faster.
How is the 4.4L SC V8 a high tech engine? What have they improved over the last generation of DOHC V8s besides VVT and a Supercharger? And yes the LS7 is an interesting beast, but some people look at it and say wow they need 7.0L to get 500 HP… XYZ company did that with 5 or 6 liters etc.. In the case of those to V8s, I give GM credit since the LS7 is probably one of the best engines built, however its still pushrod which some perceive as a bad thing and its huge displacement wise. The Northstar V8s I’ve heard some negative things about. Again I think there’s a lack of technical information to really determine how good they are. The LS7 on the other hand, I have seen the insides of. IF GM would put that technology base into a few high end engines for their smalle cars it would be amazing (which they haven’t… and I’m referencing the lighweight internals, Dry sump, titanium rods, airflow characteristics etc..) In actuallity the output/displacement isnt’ that good, what makes the LS7 so good is that in its market segment it is properly integrated into the whole system. I’m still waiting to figure out if thats the case for the Malibu and CTS.
why would you say magnaride is very sophisticated? What other components make it sophistocatted? rheomagnetic or ferromagnetic fluids are fairly simple, I can’t imagine where the complexity is. But hopefully someone can point me to a site where I can see how complex the system is.
You make some good valid points, and thats partly what my aim was. But also its to make people ask why not do this or that etc..
Chris,
That is pretty cool, but is it a standard feature? or OnStar only?
Rick,
I have heard of Malibu but not in regards to the beach, and I certainly never really put the car name and the beach name together. So I guess not everyone has heard of it. Maybe chevy is a global brand but somehow the issue of getting people to buy them seems to come up again and again. I can’t remember if it was a blogger or GM who is trying to get Chevy in more people’s hands (or technically around them). The point I was making is that Chevy seems to have a negative connotation with many people that I talk to. My family has always owned Chevy’s from the ‘57 four door, the ‘68 vette, to the K1500, to the Duramax we presently have. And honestly they all strike me as fairly average. I can’t help but wonder what other potential customers think. I do agree the Malibu is nice, but people I know can’t help but wonder how much of it is hype. I’ve heard both good and bad things about it. There are always things people don’t like, and I guess thats ok but if I was GM I’d try to get rid of as many of the negative as I can. I personally feel the Chevy bow tie is old and outdated, there are a few die hard fans (like certain members of my family) who refuse to look at the reality that other companies are making equal if not better cars. The enthusiasts probably wouldn’t understand getting rid of the brand name. But logically I think it makes sense. There are to many version of one car, and each of them offers something slightly different (a plus in some regards) but potential customer like myself may not like the feature set of any one of them. Rebranding and reorganizing makes a lot of sense in that regard. GM has many redundant vehicles some of which intercompete and that I don’t understand. Doesn’t it cost resources to intercompete?
The problem I have with GM diesels is that I don’t see them here. I’ve worked the math out, I get that the cost numbers aren’t there. But that doesn’t stop people from buying them. A few friends of mine have bought VW diesels on the premise that they get better millage. When you run the numbers the gains are minimal. But yet they still sell them. Why? In fact VW, Mercedes and BMW ALL sell disels in the US, with a bunch of companies in Japan trying to get into the race (probably for the euro market).
Again the point with the Malibu that I don’t get is that the G6 is the same chassis and already offers a 6 speed, how hard is it to put a 6 speed in the Malibu and put the correct plastic trim and clutch pedal in it? Again it makes little sense unless GM is affraid to take market away from the G6. And if thats the case then I don’t think they should have two cars that are that similar. GM is one of the only auto companies that offers that many versions of their vehicles (except maybe Ford/Mercury/Lincoln).
I personally think that if GM resturctured their brands it would make a lot of sense. Why make the G6 RWD? Why not drop it altogether and make it a G7 (just smalller then the G8). The Saturn Aura can more then make up for the lack of a G6 with a sport package and the Malibu dash. Again feature package options its GMs biggest marketing problem (in my opinion).
I also think GM needs to have something thats AWD and sporty to compete with Subaru WRX and Audi. I wouldn’t mind seeing a G8 or CTS sized car with turbos and an advanced AWD system. Just my thoughts though.
The current Aura’s exterior styling situates it at a place where if the interior was revamped with a a higher quality version of the Malibu’s it could become an upscale luxuary(ish) car to compete with Toyota or maybe even Lexus, right now I don’t think its able to do that. It lacks the interior style and feature sets and a 6 speed.
I’m not sure I agree with your ideas on SAAB or Buick. I like where GM is going with buick right now, trying to make them the Lexus killer. I think they need to re-aim a bit to add some serious performance to the line (AWD, and or RWD). I honestly think though axing Pontiac and Chevy makes way more sense. Saturn becomes the econo/entry level car, Buick becomes the luxuary car and Caddy the performance division with GMC selling only trucks. The could cover all their markets with minimal overlap. How much overhead does that free up?
As it is Toyota has three brands, Scion, Toyota and Lexus. Nissan has two, Nissan and Infiniti, as does Honda, and even Audi/VW. On the import side that leaves only Mitsubishi, and BMW and Mercedes being their own only brand. Ford and Chrysler are the only ones left with 3 brands that share platforms. I’m seeing a trend here.. less seems to work better.
I agree they need to revise their feature list. Its a big flaw in GM marketing. Let the customers pick the features they want and don’t want.
Why is the replacement of the 3500 V6 a big deal? Isn’t the 3.6 just as good if not better? Is it a millage difference or??
You are absolutely correct GM can’t afford to lose customers, though they have gotten good at it.
Are you aware the new EPA ratings make fuel economy appear lower? Are your customers aware of that? They are suppoesdly more accurate then before though, so they should better reflect what people get in the real world.
I dont’ think with a gasoline powered engine and a car the size of the Malibu that 40 MPG is very likely. The themodynamic efficiency of that engine isn’t good enough, not even with DI and a good transmission. Thats a reality of physics, but maybe in a few more years it’ll be possible.
You can’t get hybrid millage without hte complexity, its a function of mass and driving habbits and energy conservation. The only way to increase millage without a hybrid is either better engines or less mass, both aren’t cheap and less mass isn’t easy.
Personally I think GM’s goals should be to get a few of their cars up to par with what people expect and get with other brands. Then they need to reorganize their branding. Just my thoughts for whatever they are worth.
Eric Matthew Vest
Mr. Lutz,
I saw the new Malibu at the local Chevrolet dealer last weekend. The styling, qulaity of materials and workmanship, and content was very impressive. It is interesting how General Motors is putting more content into their cars while Toyota and Honda seem to be decontenting theirs. For example the Malibu has rear disk brakes on its low trim levels instead of drum brakes. Also, the Malibu has piston actuated trunk hinges instead of the cheap goose neck type.
Joe D, Cleveland OH
Rick,
With the new 4 cylinder as the base engine in the Malibu, there is no need for the 3500’s existance. It merely remained in existance because GM could not build a powerful enough 4 cylinder to compete with Honda and Toyota. Now they can. Around 80% of Accord and Camry sales are with the 4 cylinder that was very comparable in both performance and efficiency to the 3500. Once GM realized that 4 cylinder engines are the way to go if engineered properly, the old pushrod V6’s days were numbered.
I wonder if those people who comprised your “personal market research” understand this. The sole reason for a V6 engine to exist today is for purists who put a premium on performance. If they want a V6, the 3.6VVT is a fantastic engine. If not, the 4 cylinder is still an excellent choice.
If they choose not to buy a GM vehicle simply based on that principle, where else would they go? Honda and Toyota engines have the same principle.
Nate
Joe,
I agree with the first part of your response. The 3500 was a good engine, but I consider it a low tech engine by todays standards. GM has proven in my book that they know how to make a decent 4 cylinder, its just to bad they don’t offer a bit more power in it in more of their models. A turbo model would be nice, or even a high output model. The engineer in me knows better, as increasing MEPs usually increases NOx emissions, while providing more power and slightly raised thermodynamic efficiencies.
If a customer didn’t buy a GM, Toyota makes some high performance engines (especially Lexus). As does Nissan. GM hasn’t matched them horse power yet with V6s, though they are getting there.
I think GM can’t sell to many high output V6s due to CAFE.
Richard
Funny that Toyota is described as “recalling” cars with only minor problems. So far from the truth. Toyota for years has avoided recalls by having serious issues handled as “campaigns.” Only when they could no longer hide from their troubles did they start actual recalls.
Remember sludged engines? Camrys that would lock their owners into their cars with defective power locks that would fuse together? Almost every V6 truck having head gasket problems? None were recalled.
It is actually GM that recalls for minor problems. The tailgate cables on my Silverado, for example.
Only car I’ve ever gotten stuck in was Japanese. My wife’s ‘91 Integra with an amazingly bad clutch design. If GM had used the same clutch, they would have been panned. Honda gets away with it.
Rick Lupori
Joe D. First, the percentage of 4-cylinder Accord/Camry buyers is closer to 70% and 0-60 in 10 sec. is not the same as 0-60 in 8 sec. The same 2.4L engine in the Malibu has been in the G6 for 2 years and GM offered the Quad-4 (little rough but powerful) engine in most GM midsize cars for years and none of them have boosted sales much.
What I did not mention (and you did not ask) is that most of those “happy GM midsize owners” traded in a 4-cylinder Accord/Camry (because they were unhappy with the power) on a pushrod V6 GM car.
Oh, and they were California Accord/Camry owners - the ones you say only want 4-cylinders; no they don’t, they want V6 power but don’t want to pay the $3,000 to $4,000 premium. Before they owned a GM pushrod V6 they did not know that you CAN get V6 power at the price of a 4-cylinder WITHOUT giving up MPG.
They bought GM cars despite the bland styling and plastic interiors. and found a car that gives them “more power than I need” while delivering “as good or better MPG as my Accord/Camry.”
Now these happy owners want a new Malibu with it’s great styling, interior and driving dynamics, but they want it with a 3500 V6 they have discovered is the best powertrain answer for a family car’s real world driving needs.
The 3500/3900 engines are far from “low tech” and offer Varible Valve Timing (VVT), AFM (3900) and are even E-85 capable - features not found in some competitors V6 engines. The 3500 VVT can easily have AFM added since it is on the 3900 and would make it the best choice on the market for a family car with it’s low initial cost and high MPG. The best design is not always the most complex but the one that efficiently meets the performance needs in the smallest, lightest weight package at the lowest cost.
Current economic conditions put the total cost of a vehicle (inital and operating costs) at a premium and GM can offer V6 power in a well equipped Malibu at the same price many competitors ask for 4-cylinders and thousands less than ANY competitors V6.
This is a “Marketing Advantage” - will GM take advantage of it?
GM must understand that offering the same thing as everyone else is giving up this advantage at just the time it can most take advantage of it - noone would be happier to see GM drop the OHV V6 engine more than it’s competitors.
There is nothing wrong with offering the 2.4L and it will attract some Accord/Camry owners but not enough to offset the current GM owners (or enlighted Accord/Camry ones) who want V6 power for 4-cylnder price/MPG.
The 3.6L engine is competitive with the Accord/Camry but as you pointed out this is only 20-30% of that market and GM will at best get 10% of these owners to LOOK at the Malibu and probably less than 5% to buy one.
GM can sell 15,000 to 20,000 3500 V6 Malibu’s to retail buyers for $20,995 to $24,995 (many to Acord/Camry owners) Why buy a $24,000 to $30,000 Accord/Camry V6 when you can get plenty of power with the benefit of 4-cylinder MPG for $3,000 to $5,000 less?
The small percentage of buyers who MUST have the power of the 3.6L can get it in the Malibu at a price competitive with the Accord/Camry which is good but attracting about 1,000 Accord/Camry buyers a month does not make up for the 10,000 to 17,000 GM V6 owners you will lose.
Offering the 3500 V6 will enable GM to sell 30,000 to 35,000 Malibu’s a month opposed to the 12,000 to 18,000 they probably will with the current offerings.
Maybe you should spend some time in California and sell real cars to real buyers before you assume what we want. And what we want is the abiity to choose for ourselves between the 2.4L, 3500 or 3.6L.
The just house passed (pending Senate/Presidential approvals) CAFE requirements will make a 3500 V6 capable of 30 MPG (6-speed) to 34 MPG (AFM & 6-speed) at a 4-cylinder price Malibu far and away the best buy on the market.
The question is will GM take advantange of this huge market advantage or fumble it away?