Saturn Plugs In, Takes Off

I like the plug-in VUE. I hope the other end just plugs into a regular home wall outlet. The Flexextreme is very nice. A coupe version could be cool also.

i would like to see the two-mode hybrid available on the Aura and the Outlook too. There's only 12 years left to achieve 35 mpg CAFE average.

But the delays for goodness sakes! The foreign car company's aren't waiting, in fact, several have stated that they will have plug-ins on the road late this year or 2009. During WWII the government had the auto industry switch from automobile manufacturing to war production. They designed and built planes, tanks, armored vehicles, machine guns and ammunition in a matter of months....not YEARS. If the industry was able to design and build vehicles that weren't even on the drawing boards in just months, why is GM unable or unwilling to do the same with regards to plug-ins and electric only vehicles? The Empire State building was built in 16 months so there simply is no excuse, NONE. Pour all your resources into the Volt and new Cadillac and it would be here by the start of 2009!

Great !

One small comment: make sure that there is a reasonably sized (i.e. tasteful and elegant), but easily read badge on the back of the vehicle stating that this is a hybrid. Think of how many people stare at the back of a vehicle during their commutes.

I certainly notice when a Camry has "the badge".

Thanks,
Chris (Toronto)

p.s. Gereon Langlitz - are you still around ?

You know I was just about to spend some quality time with Buick but the GM engine just isn't letting up. You have the Provoke over here, the CTS Coupe and then you have the Hummer Hx, now add to that GM's move to the forefront in cellulosic technology. Then the North American car of the year award for the Malibu.

Wow, GM is making more headlines than Airbus at a French air show.

But this is the nature of the automobile industry today. Intense competition from a fragmented industry a la Japan with 9 immortal automakers with their Yen subsidy giving their vehicles up to a $4000 advantage in the US. Your also up against a monopoly from OPEC. But from this battle on two fronts we are seeing the perfection of GM and we are seeing GM finally become what it was meant to be.

A company so diverse and large that the competition doesn't know where the next fire is coming from. You got concepts being launched from China to Europe, Australia to North America to South Korea. But at once it all is seamless, harmonious, and most important of all continuous and consistent.

Saturn continues it's first wave while Cadillac goes into its second just as Buick's wave begins with the Enclave and Riviera.

I am like a surfer in California and the waves are just getting higher and higher, more beautiful and exciting. But don't worry about Buick, China is known to be able to deliver the goods.

Bottom Line?

Don't read my blog read the ones above. What do you have a two-mode hybrid? Bring it on, bring it. The competition is learning from GM and the only thing they do is take your formula and beat your technology by a day, and out produce you by one car.

But in the end there is but one automobile company in the world that can compete fairly in an open market without government protection, currency subsidies and no home field advantage and still come with breathtaking product like this.

Fastlane short.

In all fairness, nothing is fair but GM overcomes and does what it must do. And let the competition know that you are only the better for it.

Get out the fastlane and hop in Bob's plain short?

Great, a two-mode hydrid. Build it. Yesterday.

Well i read earlier today that Bob Lutz said that the new CAFE standards will add about $6,000 to average vehicle. This Vue is made to meet new CAFE, so does that mean that the two-mode will cost 6G's more?

So, Saturn is going to sell this 2-Mode Hybrid Vue, they already have a "single mode" hybrid Vue, and, very soon, there will be a plug-in hybrid Vue.

Three hybrid powertrains for 1 vehicle? What a marketing nightmare!

How about eliminating the hybrid powertrains and just getting the weight under 4,000 lbs. This Vue weighs as much as a 1970s Cadillac!

Kevin R,

I agree with you (for the most part) GM typically is a year behind the curve. My guess is their innovation department suffers from narcolepsy. GM seems to be asleep behind the wheel. When they wake up they have nice products but they are to late. 2010 isn't early enough when the competition have cars ready for 2008 and 2009.

During WWII times were different, and budgets were different as was quality control. Anyone who has ever heard of the Liberty ships knows about this.

Keep in mind though that the US purchasing plug in cars in mass quantity will cause a lot of problems. So my guess is GM is being wise and slowly releasing them. As a consumer it is frustrating none the less.

I am very glad to see that GM has FINNALLY created a turbodiesel hybrid. It only seems to have taken people on this blog site screaming at the top of their lungs. Now I hope they offer the same setup in their larger cars like CTS and Buick. I think with the right team, they can develop high efficiency, high HP power terrains at a reasonable cost. In all honesty it doesn't have to be the cheapest thing as long as I know the technology will last at least 10-15 years (age of all my current GMs).

I think GM has to many irons in the fire, but that isn't a bad thing... but it seems to have hit their release dates fairly hard. I'm still awaiting GM to catch the idea that the tech companies (mainly Apple) use. Release the product and announce that it will be immediatly available. This does a great deal for GM PR. It says we can make awesome products and get them to you. Not just we can come up with great ideas and trip bringing them to market.

Mike,

Its rather a fascinating statement you make about the new CAFE laws. Personnally I'm excited to hear about a 6K price jump. Why you ask? Well my guess is the 6K price jump will further change the dynamics of the business. People will suddenly be buying different. They will buy more long term, accompanying this I predict a turn in the rate at which vehicles get updated. As we approach good solutions to common problems the vehicles will take longer and more money to develop, and hopefully the market will stabilize, much as the computer industry seems to have. Once the new technologies are out, we will hopefully be able to buy a vehicle for 10 or 15 years of service rather then what seems to be the trend today (buying one every few years).
Maybe I'm way off here, but what do I know... I guess we'll see.

Adam,

A 1970's Cadillac may weight 4000 lbs, but I'll bet it doesn't conserve any of its energy when braking. I'm sure the people at GM (their engineers) have done their trade and design studies properly. The hybrid is good for milleage. So maybe its a marketing problem, but I think GM is better off having the problem of marketing 3 hyrbids rather then none. Especially today's market.

If you don't like the weight of the Vue, consider a 1970 Cadillac V8, and let us know how that works out for you.

Another step in the rght direction for GM.

Jill,

Was the two-mode hybrid system ever considered with a 1.8L Ecotec engine instead of a V6?

"But the delays for goodness sakes! The foreign car company's aren't waiting, in fact, several have stated that they will have plug-ins on the road late this year or 2009"

Please name one.

GM has beaten Toyota to market by 18 months with full-size hybrid trucks and has will beat Toyota to market with a production Plug-in vehicle. Toyota is leading in the "green game" on reputation alone now.

Don't make the same stupid mistake the domestics made 33 years ago, panicking amid a wave of legislation and going for the most technically advanced and THEREFORE EXPENSIVE solutions out there.
The winners were the Japanese who simply invented FUNDAMENTALLY EFFICIENT new engine technology like CVCC
instead of unreliable garbage like V8-6-4. It's this dumb tendency among Americans to believe in unproven high technology first rather than simply setting high standards for engineers to hit WITH THE SIMPLEST solutions and sticking to them.
The stage is set for GM to fall back into a cloud of quality problems if they think this hybridization is the solution to the situation today.
Consumers will buy smaller, lighter cars with small turbo engines, etc because they know what's going on. Don't let the Japanese beat you out in the holistic efficiency game this time around, Rick and Bob are you listening???

Just wondering why GM smashed up all its plug-in electric vehicles in the 90's. You would have been ahead of the game back then.

Saturn has truly done a great job remaking itself, despite idiotic advertising: "Imports Be Very Afraid!" (on a billboard north of Detroit), and "Rethink American" (by buying a rebadged Opel?). You people don't seem to have the skill to forecast what you're doing over 3 days in advance, you don't remember what you did 3 days ago, and don't have a clue how marketing campaigns are done.

Now that Saturn has some great products (despite some that are very overweight and underperforming in the fuel economy to be sure), do you all-important managers and executives realize how foolish you looked in most of the past trying to sell/hype such obviously substandard products? Can anyone say 'credibility problem?'

And finally, if GM brags about doing a new car in 36 months, why did it take 12 months just to rebadge the Opel Astra?

With the new Saturn Views I could have sold 2 Views if they came with a Sun roof. I think we missed the boat again on this one add on.

simple dray. Gm needs 12 months for the Astra to be certified by the US government, probably NHTSA. They did all kinds of testing on it.

Will we ever be seeing something like this in a vehicle the size of an Astra? I saw the Astra in person for the first time last week and really liked the styling. It looks like it would be pretty much perfect for my situation of living in the city and having to have a small car that can fill a lot of roles.

But when I got on fueleconomy.gov and compared it with other cars I'm looking at (Namely the Fit and the Prius), the fuel economy was disappointing. I mostly drive in the city, so city fuel economy is paramount for me. The Astra is rated at 24 mpg, and the Fit is 28.

I'd really like to give GM a chance, but I can't do it until there's something out there that can meet my needs in terms of fuel economy. I think a hybrid Astra would fit the bill. In fact, I'd buy a hybrid Astra over the Prius because I like the design better (it seems like it would be easier to parallel park), but only if it got similar or better fuel economy.

So please, please, GM: Put a hybrid system in something smaller than the Malibu or Aura. If the Volt is going to be your moon shot, make this compact hybrid your Mercury program to get the right people, hard core greenies like me, excited about GM's hybrids.

i am really lookong forward to the time when saturn will be available in switzerland too

The Vue Hybrid is a great idea. I would like to make two suggestions for even further improvements:

1) Reduce weight (important for this car class)
2) Pay extreme attention to ergonomics inside the car (don't repeat mistakes of Equinox)

I see challenging competition in the horizon. So, you must strive to be the best.

GM needs to play it cards a little closer to the chest. Releasing information about future products too far in advance of production, is giving you a day late and a dollar short image

Just out of curiosity, where is the GM Auto X-Prize entry?

100 mpg Civic at:http://forum.ecomodder.com/showthread.php?t=290 shows that it can be done with a production car and aerodynamics.

Okay, I have to post this because it's just so typical of GM these days--talk a good game but never deliver. This post is related to the topic of "green" cars from GM, but it involves a different aspect of the company. This was just the most convenient place to post this comment.

In the NY Times Magazine of 1/20/08, GM ran an ad "penned" by Beth Lowery, VP of Environment, Energy, and Safety Policy. In the ad, she says GM now welcomes the input of the general public. It has a new website ready to take our comments and publish them every Friday in the Op-Ed page of the NY Times. Okay, I'm game. I have comments. But the URL for this website is buried in tiny type--AND IT'S THE WRONG URL TO BOOT. Extra care in QA at GM rears its head once again.

For anyone who would like to post a comment to the REAL site (not the fake one GM printed to avoid getting any comments!), here it is: www.chevynytimes.com (as opposed to nytimes.com/chevy as seen in the GM ad).

And still GM wonders why we don't believe a thing it says or we think it has no commitment to quality...

I think they are terrific moves in the right direction but late. Currently your competition is touting future numbers well into the 50mpg to 100mpg while you are in the mid 30mpg class?

I heard the Vue's curb weight was 500lbs more than before. Was becase you went back to metal? I have also heard its smaller inside so a family of 5 doesnt fit is that true?
The Ford Escape Hybrid is getting in the 35's mpg now.
So though its cool. I really like the style of the Flextreme (its modern and
different)
My question is are you going to be so late and mpg so low
that you will be fighting uphill trying to sell em?

With such LOW mpg numbers your speed to market might no help. And with doing nothing
you are in more and more trouble everyday.

The era of the component car
is approaching. Smaller companies can do a LOT with tested bodies and computer models. Adding engine parts is
like ordering from the internet. CNC's have come down
in price and there is a lot of
excess capacity in manufacturing these days.

So small companies will be offering models with better mpg and more electric range by 2010.

Well thats what I think.
Can you do better?
Maybe with silicon nanowire?
http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2008/january9/nanowire-010908.html

Make it real :-) and make it
electric by 2009.

I checked out the new Vue recently and I must say it is a very nice looking SUV. The styling, detail, and materials all look to be first rate. Even the price is pretty reasonable. It's too bad that it is so grossly overweight and gets such poor fuel economy, or I would have seriously considered buying one. Even with a 50% improvement in gas mileage, it will barely be competitive from a fuel economy standpoint as compared to the regular gas engines from Toyonda. Add the additional price penalty for the hybrid, and GM is once gain out-gunned by the competition. Lightweight steel, aluminum, and magnesium all cost more, so it is no surprise that the VUE is so overweight. If you don't know already, GM doesn't pay a dime more than they think they can get away with, and you can thank Bo for this disappointing result.

Some day you marketing types will stand up to his madness, I just hope you're not too late.

"2010 isn't early enough when the competition have cars ready for 2008 and 2009."

Folks, lets stop the lies. There is no plug in from an import manufacturer that is scheduled to appear this year. Toyota has said it will have something on the market in 2010 but they have indicated the vehicle will not be for sale to the general public. People are so excited about the prospect of coming to this site to bash GM they dont even do any research. Based on what we know TODAY, GM is likely to be the first to have a plug in vehicle on the market that can be purchased by a regular consumer.

"Even with a 50% improvement in gas mileage, it will barely be competitive from a fuel economy standpoint as compared to the regular gas engines from Toyonda."

This is a total lie. The Vue two mode should be good for about 27mpg combined. This exceeds the Rav4 V6 by a significant margin and will exceed all four cylinder compact Cuvs as well while offering FAR more peformance. Lets not forget that most 4 cylinders in this class need about 9 secs to get to 60mpg while the Vue 2 mode will be close to 7 secs while providing great fuel economy. The only compact CUVs that will be close to the Vue's mileage are the Escape and Mariner and last time I checked they are not imports. Once again we have people like Michael posting here with half truths in order to paint a one sided picture in which GM is behind the competition.

Here's the data for the Honda CR-V:

The 2.4-liter, dual overhead camshaft (DOHC) i-VTEC 4-cylinder engine is designed to meet the CR-V’s fuel-mileage and lower-emissions goals: the 2WD CR-V achieves 20/27/23 (city/highway/combined),* and has a CARB emissions rating of ULEV-2.

This is real data my friend. "Should be good for 27 MPG" is only wishful thinking at this point, and the price premium required for a hopeful 4MPG is just not competitive. Do the math. At 12K miles per year, this is a savings of about 55 gal per year x 3 = $165. Keep the car 5 years and the lifetime fuel savings is $825. And why would anyone want to pay nearly a $2000 price premium? You call this competitive, or a good business case?

Jill Lajdziak asked me to thank everyone for their comments. We appreciate everyone who took the time to provide their input on a topic as important as the future of clean, green cars and trucks.

Now to address a few of your specific questions:

- Because we are still nearly a year from wide retail availability of the 2 Mode, it is too early to speculate on the possible prices. As we do today with our current hybrids, we will do our best to make the price as affordable as possible.

- The Astra is brought over directly from Europe, and since Opel does not currently offer a hybrid Astra, we could not add one to the product mix. Stay tuned...our product development partnership with Opel will yield more impressive (and eco-friendly) vehicles in the future.

- We placed the 2 Mode transmission with the 3.6 V6 because the engine has the power needed to offer the full versatility allowed by the system: 50% boost in fuel economy combined with 3,500 lb. towing capacity and 0-60 in 7.3 seconds.

I’ll check back regularly incase there are additional comments or questions.

-Mike Morrissey
Saturn Communications

I learned yesterday that a local machine shop has a contract with a subcontractor of Mercedes Benz to provide parts for an all electric vehicle scheduled for mass production in 2012.
I hope the American auto industry gets its act together and beats the foreigners in this market for passenger cars. OPEC has done the world a favor by keeping oil supply tight to spur on this new technology. All electric cars for local travel and hybrids for long distance travel is the future for passenger cars and I hope the American auto industry is in the forefront of this market.

Saw a photo of a concept Riviera in recent Golf magazine. Any chance of it becoming available in a year or two? It's a real beauty.