Invicta: A Product Progress Report

Great Lego comment by Ed.!!!

I'm a GM fan, but here's the problem. GM's recent rash of good, if not compelling products is not really turning things around, like we might expect. Part of the reason may be that in the end, lots of people buy on their monthly cost to own, and GM's lack of financing incentives, especially for leases of late, is killing their sales. My partner works for GM, and one of his dealer contacts was recently lamenting how he was spending some of the free time he had with an empty (of customers) showroom figuring lease prices on new Yukons given the lack of current deals. A plain Yukon, he found, would lease at over $700 a month, and the new and much-hyped hybrid would be over $1200! How does that make sense for anyone when they could probably lease something like a Mercedes GL (or you name it) for hundreds less? $500 a month buys a lot of gas, even at $4 a gallon.

Meanwhile, GM reports this quarter's loss at over $3 billion, and yet Rick Wagoner's annual total compensation last year when up to $14 million! Is this company still that out of touch with reality? Out in their own "field" and closest to the customer, my partner's annual compensation is approximately 1/200th (!) of Wagoner's, and after some years of no raises, he just got a 2% hike. And this is someone who is consistently rated at the top of his team, doing one of the many professional, white-collar jobs (the ones they can't outsource to overseas) that (in part) aims to satisfy individual customers.

All of this news of late, including the cheerleading here for the new Invicta, is adding up in my mind to one disquieting conclusion: GM is still sinking, isn't realistically addressing the problems of the market, their employees, and their dealers, and meanwhile the big boys are partying at the top, where life is good.

Invicta is a great looking sedan and a worthy companion to the Enclave already in my garage. One thing has me worried and that is your small car platforms. To me, it seems Ford is rapdily gaining ground with the new Fiesta which looks like it will be very appealing and globally available. When do we see the work you describe bring us a very inspired small car to replace Cobalt, G5, etc....???

Great job on the new Invicta. The car is beautiful and the name is perfect. Please drop the LaCrosse name and keep the Invicta. It fits the car.

Bob,
That is a great looking car. I know one thing I have noticed is young and older people like beauty and style. The new Buick will make all buyers happy. One thing, PLEASE, build a two door personal luxury car for Buick or
Chevrolet and be ahead of other manufacturers and build a full size STATIONWAGON. Wagons can be stylish and beautiful
KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.

I do agree with you Bob, progress is being made. What you seem to have lost sight of though is the fact that not every vehicle in the GM portfolio needs to be derived from the same component set. Cadillac and Pontiac are two cases in point. All Cadillacs should be based on proprietary REAR WHEEL DRIVE architectures and powered by a proprietary family of engines. No, a different version of the corporate GM DOHC V-6 does not count, even if it is equipped with direct injection or has a different displacement. Neither does using members of the LS-X engine family which, as good as they are, will always be considered "Chevy motors". The fact that the BRX will be based on a shared FWD architecture will only serve to undermine the brand, even if it sells well. And basing your ultimate sedan on Zeta, a platform underpinning Holdens, Pontiacs and a Chevrolet, is every bit as damaging. How about a premium Cadillac platform for the DTS/STS replacement and Escalade, with a second smaller premium platform for the CTS, SRX, BRX and smaller sedan? (Yes, I know that I included both the BRX and SRX. There is room for both...just ask BMW with their X3 and X5).

Pontiacs should all be rear drive, and sharing platforms with Holden is an excellent strategy. Unlike Cadillac, Pontiacs can and should utilize GM corporate engines for cost reasons, but platforms such as Zeta and Alpha (which should form the basis for the next G6) should not underpin vehicles from other GM divisions (Camaro excepted). This is the beauty of mating with Holden. Economies of scale are realized globally, without product overlap in a given market. Then axe the badge engineered G5 and image inconsistent Vibe (or if you must keep the Vibe, move it to GMC, the alleged home of the B-P-G truck and crossover fleet).

So that then leaves Buick (which should have received the Theta-Epsilon crossover instead of Cadillac as a compliment to the Enclave), Saab, Saturn/Opel/Vauxhall, and Chevrolet to share car platforms and powertrains, while Hummer, GMC and Chevrolet share truck platforms and powertrains. Base the next Lucerne (hopefully renamed Park Avenue) on Lambda, if you can, and make AWD available on all Buicks. Further differentiation could be achieved by keeping Saab true to its heritage with heavily boosted small engines and promoting the BioPower technology.

People know what is under their cars, Bob. And those same people hold American manufacturers more accountable for this due to their long heritage. Lexus, for example, came into this world with no pretense of being seperate from Toyota, but Cadillac WAS at one time a different company than Chevrolet. We cherish that heritage, and I am not referring to enthusiasts alone.

Finally, you need to realize that the driven wheels are a critical component of a brand's DNA. Cadillac = RWD and RWD based AWD. Pontiac = RWD. Saturn = FWD. Buick and Saab should = FWD and FWD based AWD. This consistency is critical to the character development of each brand.

This is what we should expect from GM. No less. The resources at the company's disposal should demand all designs are as breathtaking. No more Aztecs. I am confident GM finally won't let another of those out the door.

I just hope this concept isn't 'dumbed down' by the time it hits dealers. A very nice design inside and out.

Mr Lutz said: "In the big picture, to me, Invicta is symbolic..."

Mr Lutz,

What is symbolic is that your marketing team couldn't think of an original name for this car. There has been an Invicta Car Company, Ltd. in the United Kingdom since 1925, and they still build and sell motor cars. In fact, your Chinese Invicta doesn't look that much unlike their Invicta S1 which they first showed in 2007. Invicta Car Company

International trademark and copyright laws may allow you to sell a GM car named Invicta in China, but I understand why you hint you will have to label it as the next version of the La Crosse if you sell it in the United States -- there is probably some trade agreement between the UK and the US that would prohibit you from calling it the Invicta here.

V/R

Gary Dikkers

Bob:

I have lamented your decisions all over the web, and now I come here to tell you: you have no business building cars.

I mean, really, you are trying to justify badge engineering now?

Do you know why the Mercury Milan sells so poorly? Why the Lincoln MKX hasn't seen any good times?

ITs because for whatever differences in aethetics in the interior of the Milan, people know its just a Fusion. We can go to a website or read a magazine and see that the suspension did not change, that the transmission and engine did not change. Hence, everyone bought the Fusion, and the Milan (as is the whole Mercury brand right now) is a distant memory.

Same with the Edge to the MKX: people look at both and say "you know, all I am getting here is a new grill and a slight interior jump over a top of the line Edge, which retails for far less."

The problem with badge engineering Lutz is that it doesn't work. Lets say you do take a platform and then add tons of metal to make it longer and then change suspension (which really, you won't, I no longer give GM credit to be the intelligent). Its just going to handle worse, being the platform wasn't meant to take the new weight.

And people want to know that their cars are really different. Thats why (as someone here mentioned) Lexus has gone the route of no longer sharing parts and components with Toyota. The only cars with sharing now are the Sequoia and Land Cruiser. I've torn down IS cars and GS cars, the parts are different (with the exception of say, bolts, and sometimes the nuts, which truly no one does care about those). Shocks, brakes, engines, those should be different. The bodies need to be stiffer and safer, and the safety technology so cutting edge that you simply couldn't load it into regular cars. That is what people want out of luxury. Otherwise, again, they'll skip the Milan and the MKZ and the MKX and buy the cheaper ones.

I know what you are thinking: "well, if the interior looks nicer, thats a plus." But you are not seriously considering putting an "ugly" interior in the downmarket car are you? And you can now get wood and leather in a Camry and Corolla (that last one only has wood now, but leather next year). Just adding those doesn't do enough.

The reason GM is failing, I am convinced, is you, Bob Lutz. Your a man of the 70s, thanks for the 3 Series but BMW would fire you today for lack of vision, lack of intelligence and lack of, well, anything relevant to car making.

I cannot believe that when Chevrolet debuted the Volt car, you were actually talking it DOWN. You were actually downplaying and trying to illegitamize the car. People want that car Bob, so why the hell are you trying to convince them not to buy one? Do you know anything about selling anymore?

Whats more, whenever new technology and new styles come out you always insult them and play them down as " cost centers." Well no shit it costs money to do R&D Bob, but you are in a technologically competitive and design competitive industry. You will have R&D costs. And if you honestly want to charge extra for what needs to be done anyway, go right ahead. Toyota, Honda, and Hyundai will keep lowering their prices. Accounting for inflation, subcompacts are at a nearly all time low in price, as are most non-luxury cars.

And you are telling everyone you want to make it all more expensive? Every time you say that, Toyota, Honda, and BMW laugh and say "good! Well break them even easier now!"

I once loved GM. I still have a 69 Corvette with a 427. I bought it as a rusted out piece of junk and fixed it up. Can't drive it much, with it using more gas than my old Tahoe, but thats what my dailer commuter is for.

And if you are still at GM next time I am looking for a car, that daily commuter still won't be from General Motors.

Make that new Buick an Invicta both here and in China. The Lacrosse was pretty much DOA.

I finally bought a Solstice and a GXP to boot. That initial concept took my breath away, and I knew I had to have one. At the same time the Kappa Nomad was the one I really wanted.I fell for the sporty wagons as a kid when our nextdoor neighbor had an 57 Olds, with tripower, and my neighbor on the otherside had only a Ford Ranchwagon. That's when I knew GM was in my future.

Pete Nicholson's post above conveys both my car aficionado friends and my own feelings EXACTLY. I just traded my two year old Mercedes for a Lexus and completely regret it. The Lexus is NOT in the same class as the Mercedes and it's obvious every time I drive it, and the Mercedes wasn't even that much more money! Cadillac must not make the same mistake, like he Mr. Nicholson said, "Lexus, for example, came into this world with no pretense of being separate from Toyota, but Cadillac WAS at one time a different company than Chevrolet". Invicta is looking good, don't water the production version down AT ALL or people will assume its a new offering from an Asian company which is the last thing people want in a Buick. You and your teams are doing great work Mr. Lutz, congratulations.

I have no beef about new Buicks--in fact my father had a 1954 Buick Special and it was his favorite car. What I do worry about is that there's all this cheering for the big new Buick, but no cheering for a new little subcompact. When is GM going to announce an economy car that is designed in house, made in the USA, and competitive with the Honda Fit, Toyota Yaris, etc.??? With $4+ per gallon gasoline it's not hard to see what sort of cars people are going to be looking at this summer...and it ain't Buicks.

Excellent Job on the Invicta Concept. It turned my head, and then some - and I don't usually look at Buicks. To be frank, That is one damn fine car; Great Job on it!!!

I urge GM to continue pumping out vehicles like this; this is the GM we all know and love, not the GM from ten years ago. Thank you to all those responsible for getting the product turn-around going. Now all there is to do on that front is keep producing great vehicles like this, and over time - consumers will flock back to GM dealerships.

Case in point: the New Malibu. 20% of trade-ins are people owning Imports!! THAT is a great stride, and kudos again, to everyone responsible with that car.

Next Stop? Camaro. I can't wait for this one, Bob. I have complete faith that you all won't disappoint in the least with that beauty. Thanks again for bringing it back as soon as you could.

The Buick Invicta concept is gorgeous. Please keep the Invicta name on the production car.

The next step should be yearly cosmetic changes to keep the excitement going. Grilles, lights, etc. planned in advance as low cost bolt-on's. Everyone wants the latest model. New sales can hold if the new model stays fresh. At the same time if the old model is different, and lower volume because it is changed yearly, the look will not be stale!

Another thought is a premium leasing program. You could have a system where the leasee can continuously change vehicles within the premium GM stable over the lease term. (suggest 2 years) They can have a CTS for 4 months, a Hummer for 3 months, a Buick for 4 months, a G8 for 4 momths, etc. The same vehicles could be rotated among the premium lease members. The cars could have emblems that identify these vehicles and their owners as members of this "club". This would be in the same thinking as being an "Elite" frequent flyer.

If the Invicta is the direction that the next LaCrosse is headed then Buick should have a winner on their hands.

I just hope that after Buick you finally start spending some resources to revive Pontiac, a historic brand for GM that has been floundering for far too long. While the Solstice and G8 are good, they are not nearly enough. Pontiac should be about affordable RWD performance. No Vibe. No G5. The next G6 should be on Alpha and needs to be here sooner rather than later.

Please help Pontiac. All that money spent on Saturn hasn't done much to improve sales. How about focusing on a brand that actually has a loyal following?

~ This is not “badge engineering.”

Guess what?

If you have to make a point of explaining why it's not "badge engineering," it is badge engineering.

HI Bob:
This is probably jumping the gun, but I'm going to suggest it anyway: Consider an E-Flex platform for this vehicle. It could be the future Buick version of the Volt. Just some food for thought.

By the way, nice job on this car. Truly beautiful. Bring it to the U.S. soon!

Only GM would think adding MORE badge-engineered semi-luxury cars that get 15mpg city would be a good idea when gas is $4 a gallon and people are trying to appear more frugal.

Of course, if you figure out the Volt battery pack issues and develop a full-size RWD car that gets 40+mpg using a different version of the Volt drivetrain, it will be game, set and match for every other car manufacturer.

"They can have a CTS for 4 months, a Hummer for 3 months, a Buick for 4 months, a G8 for 4 momths, etc. The same vehicles could be rotated among the premium lease members."

This is daft. People may want a FWD Hummer available in the winter months, but those who buy into a "premium leasing plan" aren't going to want to serve as rotating drivers to take the wheel of a car that others have been driving for four, eight, or twelve months.

Wow, some of these comments from the nay-sayers are ridiculous! Can't please everyone right? Don't listen to 'em Bob; I think GM design is headed in the right direction. I really hope GM can figure out a way to continue production of RWD vehicles like the G8 beyond the effective date of the new CAFE standards. I'm not buying a car anytime soon but I'd like to buy a RWD car some day (a 2-door G8 would make me happy). The new Invicta concept looks sharp. I thought Buicks were for old folks but a car like this could change my perception.

Wow....I think Allen is over the legal limit on "hater-ade" for the day.

Bob,

The Invicta is nice, but it isn't earth shattering. The Camaro still isn't here. The Volt will be here in 2010. The G8 is nice, but it's still a large car. May I ask, what happened to the Triplets? Granted, the Beat and Groove were the good looking ones, but there hasn't been even a rumbling of when we might see these cars. I just bought an 2005 MINI Cooper S since none of the American car companies had a new vehicle available in that segment that was even remotely as fun to drive. Sorry Bob, but the Cobalt isn't cutting it.

If you keep this design all the way to production, I do believe this is the first Buick that will be capable of competing head to head with Lexus.I live in Silicon Valley, and people seem to be driving Acura TSX's like mad. Perhaps a new face would offer some refreshing choices for that crowd.

But... I have to say that I do share a little of the sentiment offered by Bob Larson at the top of this post. I still really like the new Malibu. I think it is a class leader, with fit and finish above and beyond what the Camry or Accord offer. Yet at the end of the day, I see very few of these on the road out here. If I'm lucky, I might see one per week. That's right- one. On the other hand, despite being stodgy and boring, Camrys seem to still be flying off the shelves right along with Priuses and even the newer Nissan models, particularly the new Altima.

From a branding, design, and quality perspective, GM is spot-on. But despite this, I am not seeing this translate very well in terms of sales out here at least.

Wonderful, another car. It's probably going to sell well enough.

Another interesting tidbit, this from Green Car Congress; something that hasn't appeared here on the Fastlane blog, is this:

General Motors Corp. and Mascoma Corp. have entered a strategic relationship to develop cellulosic ethanol based on Mascoma’s Consolidated Bioprocessing single-step biochemical conversion of non-grain biomass into low-carbon alternative fuels.

The relationship, which includes an undisclosed equity investment by GM, complements an earlier investment in Coskata, a cellulosic ethanol startup that uses a thermochemical syngas-to-ethanol process to make the fuel from non-grain sources.
Mascoma is developing a Consolidated Bioprocessing (CBP) approach to cellulosic ethanol. CBP involves the use of a single microorganism or group of organisms to break down plant matter through a one-step conversion process of biomass into biofuels—a single-step cellulose-to-ethanol method. This lowers costs by limiting additives and enzymes used in other biochemical processes. Mascoma’s process consists of a mild pretreatment followed by the introduction of cellulose-utilizing and ethanol-fermenting microbes that both hydrolyze and ferment the sugars into ethanol.

Kind of puzzling that GM brass wouldn't have made more of this,since GM needs all the positive "green" press it can get.

Buick needs a bit of a sporty entry level type car. Kill saturn, and give buick the sky, aura, and astra.

Bob,

I support your comments. The Invicta concept seems to have the WOW factor from the photos we can see. The new Malibu turns heads (it needs a V-8 offering.) An entry level Cadillac sports car would help bring them to the showrooms and reel in the upperclass youth. Expand Cadillac up and down. The new CTS coupe hopefully will be a first step that direction.

All other things being equal, exterior styling seems to be the most important factor for a sales gain and more market share. Engine, feel (ride & comfort), and features (utility) are also important. Many of the high selling foreign sedans are not very good cars overall, yet they have promoted themselves with exterior style. I don't necessarily agree with those calling for a whole brand to be RWD. Many express
a like for FWD cars in inclimate weather. Some FWD sedan consumers may not understand RWD the way a sports car enthusiast does. I like both, my family drives both. FWD does get around better in snow.

GM critics are often wrong and should stop making irrational comparisons. The foreign car companies charge too much for many models and probably price gouge consumers as well as dump some products below market price to gain share. They've created a product image to let them get away with it. GM build better cars and can beat the foreign competition with the right style and with the right marketing. Can the Invicta do this. Do a taste test with the Lexus IS behind closed doors.

Aside from exciting styling, GM's most pressing problem is how to have a sales gain. In this, GM should not ignore the power of media and culture (perception). GM is doing many things right. GM has many marketing successes like the NorthStar, the CTS, and the Matrix movie promotion, etc. Transcend the quite corporate routine.

How to break the cycle? You've tried it you're way, why not try mine? (I'll work for teacher pay). Put nice GM dealers in those upscale suburban areas (where the parents are buying foreign cars) to give them easy access to great looking GM cars, don't be shy. The kids can talk the parents out of their foreign cars, but you have to get their attention. The old dealerships on the other side of town aren't going to grow the business all alone. Let the target audience know you want their business. Tell them and show them GM is the best, GM did this with the Pontiac Challenge promo, don't stop. Also, have regional cooperative upscale and interactive showrooms in high traffic and tourist areas as a way to promote GM product. Have GM exotic dealer annexes in upscale markets to showcase GM cars. A Corvette annex on large chevy dealers to showcase sport and resemble a Porshe dealer.

Local foreign car dealerships radio advertise lifetime warranties to take your business. They make every effort to steal your market share. GM's nice new dealers seem to be have sales gains, customers like the service and the convenience. Price is one thing, image is another. GM local radio ads should sound competitive on image and features. Price is not enough to promote your product. The first Lucerne TV ads were being competitive on features and image. The new CTS ads are competitive on features and image. These ads are helping.

Metro Washington DC is a classic example of GM's dealers being isolated in sections and walled off by traffic patterns and not really exposed to the public. This clientele sees cars at when you put a fancy dealership on the corner in an upscale part of town where their favorite restaurants are. They see the cars at the upscale mall which they frequent for errands. GM's best products are seldom displayed in these venues. Oh sure, occasionally you'll find one model Cadillac at the upscale mall, but not a real display. However, the foreign cars dealers frequently rotate product at these malls. In the DC metro are people actually read the media reviews. People actually read the Washingtonian Magazine. People like businesses that are convenient to their residence. Whether GM puts a lighted computerized billboard in a high traffic area to feature its product, or promotes on car radio during rush hour, the ads need to have some image oriented message. A GM attraction in Georgetown would get the regional attention. Its costs a little to create impressions. Test a targeted impression campaign. Some new Cadillacs and Buicks on Embassy Row would create an impression.

Classic names with designs can win. Michael Sabatini concepts are exciting interpretations. The Toronado, the GTO, Bonneville, the Riviera, Cutlass Supreme, etc. Use them all including Oldsmobile.

Bob

Invicta concept looks great but I'm not buying one

Now when do we get a nice RWD Buick
You promised we'd get a version of the China Park Avenue.. What gives??

Seriously, I'm not interested in another FWD sedan (maibu, aura, invicta, g6 all competing in the same market!!!!!)

And I'm also not interested in the volt.. I live in an apartment and park my car in the street.. Like most of the world's population, I can never own a plug in gimmick Prius copy

I disagree with Mr. Lutz. I think suspension settings don't even have to be different for vehicles of similar size. Configure them right (once) and they will come ... (Read my blog at CarEvo.blogspot.com)

Love the car, love the name!! Much better than LaCrosse and way better than the silly Canadian name Allure. Sounds like a medication for old people.
Also, I think you should bring the Excelle to the U-S. Slap some ventiports on it and a name that doesn't conjure up images of a bad Hyundai and it would sell really well. Americans want an economical luxury car. GM doesnt have one and this would fill the gap. Also, drop the Outlook. It isn't selling and seems like a waste of resources. Enclave, Acadia and Traverse are plenty.

Alan's comments on badge engineering, while articulate, are completely off the mark when it comes to what Bob is talking about. I find it interesting when someone has a point to make, they are so willing to ignore facts.

On another note and I think it dovetails nicely with Bob's comments... I think a venue to contact the company about issues and experiences we are having with the products would be invaluable to you. Not a blog necessarily but a place to make comments about our cars and know that someone is reading and hopefully reacting to them.

I have a 08' CTS/AWD/DI that is one month old. I have had three other CTS's and an STS prior to this one. And while generally I love the car, I was amazed that there is no flash to pass with my headlight configuration! How did that get past product planning? Also, the level of vibration on the AWD is not acceptable for a 50K car but my dealer informs me that it similar in all of them. I may be pickier than many, but these are the things that make Cadillac struggle sometimes when fighting for the hearts and dollars of import buyers.

So, I would love to see a chance in a focussed venue for those of us who love cars to help give input to take the great GM products from 9-10th's to a perfect "10" And of course, I would be happy to participate and even journal, etc.

Thanks

Bob,

It's no secret Buick in the States needs alot of attention. Besides the Enclave, the current LaCrosse and Lucerne just don't cut it (especially with the Lucerne's antique 3800 and 4 speed auto).

No Plug? NO SALE!

"This is taking the parts of the vehicle that the customer doesn’t see or come in contact with and commonizing them..."

Dear Mr. Lutz,
that's a perfect move. In my opinion this measure makes it much easier for dealerships to handle a variety of GM-Brands, since those brands consequently then will share spare parts and service-tools to a high degree. My vision of the future GM-dealership (also here in Germany): I'd love to simply entering the showroom, ordering my car, regardless, whether it should be a Cadillac, Buick, Pontiac, Saab, Opel, GMC or Chevrolet, and get it serviced there. Also here in Germany there's a certain tendency to multi-brand dealerships. Running these should be even much easier, when the brands all belong to the same parental company.

Now some words, regarding earlier comments. No, GM is NOT doing badge-engineering that way, as described by Mr. Lutz! Badge-engineering means that IDENTICAL products are sold just under different brands! An example is my 2001 Alero, which used to be an Oldsmobile in the US, but was sold as Chevrolet over here. But also other manufacturers did things like that: In the 70's (e.g.) Volkswagen Polo/Audi 50, later Volkswagen Sharan/Seat Alhambra, Chrysler Neon/Dodge Neon, Mazda 121/Ford Fiesta. As you can see, badge-engineering never was limited to the US in general or GM in particular! Sharing platforms or components NOTHING (!!!) has to do with badge-engineering. Some people obviously just don't get it.

I have high hopes for the Invicta(as long as you keep the name in lieu of LaCrosse)and I love the new Malibu; now, can you PLEASE do more for Pontiac? The Solstice and the G8 are great, but Pontiac needs and deserves much more! Kill Saturn and Saab, and use the money to develop new and exciting cars for "The Wide-Track People". It would be a disgrace for GM to let Pontiac die on the vine the way it did Oldsmobile!

Bob,

Myself and many others like me are not interested in another FWD sedan. GMs half-hearted RWD development has caused many to cross over to other car companies.

With the advent of traction control, stabilitrak, ABS, etc claiming that FWD is better in snow is no longer a valid argument.

Afterall I fail to see any advantage when the 2008 Malibu weighs as much as my 1970 Monte Carlo!

Bob,

Lexus can do RWD, BMW can do RWD, Mercedes can do RWD, heck, even Holden can do RWD.. why cant YOU and GM North America do a RWD car?

I think your excuse that RWD cars consume more fuel is pathetic.. I guarantee you BMW, Lexus, Mercedes and even Holden will prove you wrong...you are killing the wrong cars - the cars America wants...long live ZETA!!

~ "Classic names with designs can win."

"Invicta" is a classic alright. If one of the posters above is correct, a car company in Great Britain has apparently been using the name for decades.

Wouldn't calling this car "Invicta" be little different than calling it a "Bentley?"

Let's put badge engineering to rest. It's really simple to get GM back in the driver's seat. Only TWO DIVISIONS are necessary, not four.

GM (Division 1)
CADILLAC: RWD luxury cars
CHEVROLET: FWD cars sharing components & designs with Opel, Vauxhall, Holden & Daewoo.
CHEVROLET TRUCKS: RWD, all GM trucks should be sold under this brand.

GM SPECIAL PRODUCTS (Division 2)
BUICK: AWD near luxury cars
PONTIAC: RWD premium American sporty cars competing with BMW.
GMC: No more Chevrolet clones. Refocus brand on Hummer sales instead.
SAAB: Turbocharged FWD & AWD cars complementing Buick's line-up.

All GM cars and trucks should be available with HYBRID technology.

SATURN should be restructured as a sub-brand of Chevrolet, The Saturn nameplate should replace the Chevy Volt moniker, because it sounds so much more modern. Saturn should build only plug-in hybrids to keep the brand unique.

I am so pleased that Buick is sticking with recognizable nameplates rather than degrading itself with alphabet soup like Cadillac and Pontiac. I think the Invicta is beautiful. Lutz magic does it again!

How about a progress report on GM small cars that get more than 25mpg city?

Last time we had an oil crisis, you guys got crushed because the Vega wasn't exactly stiff competition for the imports.

Is history going to repeat itself, or is GM actually going to make some competitive fuel-efficient vehicles?

And no, getting another 2-3mpg on big cars isn't the same thing at all.

Well... I do agree on a few things said here already. GM needs to make Cadillac 100% RWD AND a totally different vehicle in EVERY aspect. The only exception would be the ESCALADE.

Buick needs also to be RWD, leave the FWD to the other brands. Lexus made its day for being top notch in everything. GM NEEDS to step up from the DELCO bose RADIOs on these vehicles. The only vehicle that might compare to my nakamichi's system is the escalade's system, and even still it falls short. Believe it or not, radios are one of the main comforts in a car, or it expresses quality in a very particular sense.

Anyways.. If GM slowly keeps getting on this they will have a winner. Don't water the vehicles down in production and in the end, get the cars OUT FAST TO MARKET, i feel like they are WASTING too much time and most manufacturers are coming out with technologies and designs way fast. GM is taking too long to make changes and doesn't attract new buyers every 5 years.

You people need a car in the standing of the LS460 and similar.

To Nigel,

RE: My idea for rotating premium leased vehicles every 4 months over a span of 2 years...a little more discussion on the subject.

If the vehicles were turned in every 4 months, the vehicles could be serviced & cleaned for the next leasee rotation. This in effect is a maintenance free lease. Having a different vehicle every 4 months for the enjoyment of change, plus coupled with a "just drive it & forgetaboutit" could work. Also you could identify with other members of the club if the vehicles had related "Elite" badging.

Further comments welcomed to shoot holes in the concept.

Best regards, Rene

Bob:

Thank you for this vehicle. Another car sold on it's "beauty" is not what consumers want. They want a car that won't harm the environment and will be (here's a thought) efficient. This is another nail in the coffin of GM. Honestly, I drive a Toyota Prius and my money went to support another country but I care more about the environment at this point.

When will you wake up? If you keep making these gas hogs (anything less the 50mpg) how do you ever expect to be back on top or to help strengthen the american economy. Right now all your doing is harming everyone with these pathetic moves.

Doesn't matter I'm writing this though, does it? As it says below. These are monitored and if anyone has anything but a glowing review I'm sure it will be deleted.

I don't really consider myself a GM fan. A huge part of their current problems are absolutely self-inflicted. I also don't think that they're perfect now. But in my eyes, they've come a long way, and are on the right track. Some people's criticisms and perceptions seem unwarranted, so let me reflect them with my $0.02 (don't spend it all at once)

Gary Dikkers posted:
"What is symbolic is that your marketing team couldn't think of an original name for this car."

Yeah, they based it on the Buick Invicta of 1959.

Meanwhile, don't expect the name or the vehicle to hit full production. Whatever vehicle will display the "design cues" is likely to come with a less lawsuit-prone name. (Which is too bad, I kinda like the name. Beats LaCrosse. And Lesabre for that matter)

edvard posted:
"From a branding, design, and quality perspective, GM is spot-on. But despite this, I am not seeing this translate very well in terms of sales out here at least."

Perception always lags reality. You can't expect people to flock to you in droves once you re-discover how to build good and great cars after you've turned out mediocre vehicles and turds for a couple of decades. Toyota, Honda et all, they needed a couple of decades to grow to the position they're in. GM'll need a couple of years at least before its widely understood that they build something you should care about as an Toyota buyer. They realize this, heck, I think Mr. Lutz indicated such in interviews surrounding the Malibu. If they can keep making Malibus, the sales will follow. They already are, kinda.

Jason posted:
"Buick needs a bit of a sporty entry level type car. Kill saturn, and give buick the sky, aura, and astra."

Killing brands is very expensive. Estimations (I don't think GM has stated the actual costs?) I've read in the press guess at a 1-2 billion dollar pricetag for GM's killing off Oldsmobile. I've not yet bumped across an article indicating what Plymouth cost Crysler.
It's kind of a bad time for GM to be spending 2-4 billion to kill off Saturn and/or Hummer/GMC as someone else suggested right now, esspecially when those divisions bring in profit.
Do they dillute GM's own market? Are there too many still? Perhaps. Aiming at niche markets for each brand and reducing badge engineering will help. They might have to axe or sell another brand anyway, but it seems unwise to do that until the economy and industry pick up again. If they got decent progress in combining Cadillac/Hummer/Saab much like they're combining Pontiac/Buick/GMC, the only remaining candidate would be Saturn. Which seems to be shifting aim from people wanting a really cheap yet decent car to people who want European cars. I'm personaly ambivalent about whether the latter's a better horse to bet on than the former, but at least it bring in more Opel clones, which is good.

Tim posted:
"No Plug? NO SALE!"

Ah, not planning to buy any car from anyone on the planet till about 2010, eh?

Rene Curry posted:
"If the vehicles were turned in every 4 months, the vehicles could be serviced & cleaned for the next leasee rotation. This in effect is a maintenance free lease. Having a different vehicle every 4 months for the enjoyment of change, plus coupled with a "just drive it & forgetaboutit" could work. Also you could identify with other members of the club if the vehicles had related "Elite" badging."

Intrigueing idea. My view:
This seems a lot like a long term rental club. It'll be super-hard to shake that, I think. On top of that, in order for that to be even remotely cost-effective, you'd have to keep cycling vehicles multiple years. Let's say 3. You sure you can equate "luxury" and "9th-hand car" to members of the rental club?

Taylor posted:
"They want a car that won't harm the environment and will be (here's a thought) efficient."

Actually, very few people want that. In fact, there's a lot of research starting to show that, were it not for the Prius' distinctive looks, it wouldn't have sold at all. People want that car because it advertises their environmental prowess. Don't believe me? Just look at the Honda hybrids. They stopped making them because they didn't sell well enough. Likely because they werent a hybrid obviously enough compared to the regular model cars.

In fact, not having a non-hybrid Prius version helped a lot too. Hard to make a cost comparison for the premium you pay for a hybrid if there's nothing to compare it to.

The MPG craze seems largely financial in nature. Which is another reason cars outsold trucks for the first time in over 2 decades (20 years of truck lovers can't be wrong? ;) ) and hybrid sales are up but hardly stellar. Took Toyota 10 years to sell a million of em worldwide. And they've yet to indicate that they're actually turning a financial profit from them.

Esspecially since the Federal tax credit they got per vehicle expired. The margins must be tight. Plenty of green bucks though, and people waving the Toyota flag. You did notice they spent more pushing the Tundra, right? Toyota isn't stupid, I agree there.

Also, have fun replacing your batteries. The way battery prices are skyrocketting, I think it'd be safe to presume $4000 and up. Make sure you add that in your price per mile math.

Want further proof? For the first time in decades, car usage is going down. Not because of MPG laws, but because of the price of gas! The CAFE opponents were right in that aspect. You want people to drive less, make it more expensive. 18.4 cents tax? 2 dollars! That'll teach them. Make sure you invest in the bicycle industry first.

Taylor also posted:
"Doesn't matter I'm writing this though, does it? As it says below. These are monitored and if anyone has anything but a glowing review I'm sure it will be deleted."

They proved you wrong once. Can they do it again?

New Buick Invicta looks great, I want one...but only if you call it Invicta, PLEASE drop the LaCrosse name (ugh), and I think the Invicta will be a big hit.

Mr Lutz said: "The Invicta is a vehicle that GM Global Product Development can be proud of on many levels..."

Mr Lutz,

Am I correct in assuming you would never have named this car the Buick Bentley, the Buick Morgan, the Buick Lotus, the Buick Triumph, the Buick Aston Martin, or the Buick Rolls-Royce? (All names of classic British motorcars.)

If that assumption is correct, why did you name it the Buick Invicta -- the name of a British car company that has been using the Invicta brand name since 1925, and that released their most recent model in 2007?

Invicta Car Company

V/R

Gary Dikkers

OK, if you guys AREN'T going to put decent small cars on the market, how about a convertible version of the new CTS-V coupe?

That would be awesome!

Bob,

I know you don’t like to discuss future products, but could you please comment on the future of GMs small cars (Cobalt, Astra). Also, would Chevy consider building a hatchback Cobalt?

Keep up the good work!
Nitz

I the the Invicta name fits the car well and should be used in the US.

BTW, it was used here in the states by Buick in the 1959-63, so hopefully it can be resurrected again.

Great interior/exterior guys -- job well done. Please make the production as close as you can to this concept. Thanks!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick_Invicta

anthony

I just saw the sneak peek of the new Cobalt on MT's web site. Despite the cammo, it looks to be a huge improvement styling wise. How about some uncammo'd tease. Now that I have my Solstice GXP, I'm anxiously awaiting Alpa.

Mr Lutz

I commend your passion to eliminate badge engineering and offer some real differentiation across GM products. We have been hearing the same commitment about getting common/efficient but retaining brand identity and customer enthusiasm for at least 15 years (since Jack Smith's days). It's high time to get serious about it.

Please start with the No. 1 way in which drivers interact with their cars - the STEERING WHEEL. So many GM cars use the same basic steering wheel - the big SUVs from Cadillac, GMC, and Chevy, the big crossovers, some of the GMDAT products like the Chevrolet Epica, the Hummers, and on and on. Is this product and brand differentiation?

The steering wheels look and feel weak, the wheel is too thin and insubstantial (i.e. no lip where the thumbs go), there the plastic faux-aluminum trim is cheap, and the overall aesthetic is truly awful (very 1995). If you are going to use the same steering wheel across dozens of products, at least make it the best steering wheel in the world. Go see a MINI, BMW, Lexus LS, any Audi or Mercedes steering wheel for some pointers. They are chunky, elegant, use nice metallic detailing, and have high quality, functional button integration. The way these steering wheels are fabricated is also using very tight tolerances (Caddy DTS is a paragon of shoddiness, as a counterpoint). The new CTS steering wheel is a big improvement - still not absolute world class, but much better. Opel is also doing a fine job.

Please eliminate the cheap, common steering wheel scourge across GM products, so that customers can actually see that GM is serious about walking the talk. Remember, it's the No. 1 interface and touchpoint people have with their vehicles. Sorry to rant about a pet peeve which turns me off so many GM products (another one is the poor font selection and lighting of IP. Again, Opel leads here; key fobs are also poorly conceived - VW has been using the switchblade versus dangling fobs for over a decade now).

Please encourage your designers to drive more competitive cars and get much more detail-oriented/obsessed. GM sometimes gets sloppy in the final 5-10% detailing work which personally still drives me toward Audi, BMW, Lexus and their ilk. Details matter in a competitive market.

Thanks and best wishes for thee continued turnaround!

MR. Lutz: The Invicta looks promising but I think GM has a few "Brands" matched with the wrong partners:

I see Holden-Pontiac-Saturn-Opel-Vauxhall-Hummer as one “global brand” or “global sales channel” with all models having a European flair to them (except Hummer) and sold globally; Holden-Pontiac and Vauxhall would sell RWD models with only Holden-Vauxhall offering some FWD models as they do today. In the U.S. market Pontiac would be all RWD and Saturn FWD except for the Sky which would remain both a Roadster and RWD, the Solstice would become a 2-seat Hardtop Coupe (optional Panoramic roof like the Astra GTC) competing directly against the 350Z with V6 and V8 power. Pontiac-Saturn makes more sense than the current BPG stores and allows better coverage with fewer overlaps and the option to offer more models from existing platforms.

Moving Pontiac out of the BPG mix will allow GM to sell a Grand Sport Zeta model along with a Convertible to fill out a line topped by the LWB Zeta Electra – I would use the longer wheelbase Zeta for the Sedan to “make room” for a FWD Lucerne replacement and differentiate it from the G8. This way the G8 would compete against the Charger and the Electra the Chrysler 300. This way Buick-GMC could then put their entire focus on the Lexus line and update dealerships with an upscale feel.

Let’s at least give the G8 a chance to sell or not before making a final decision on what the GTO is based on, Pontiac could offer a GTO from the Concept 60 or as others suggest a Trans Am from the Camaro – either way Pontiac only needs one Zeta Coupe. An advantage of the TA is that GM would get 3 coupe versions that should hit sales goals and still have the option of putting the GTO on the smaller Alpha.

Holden-Pontiac-Vauxhall volume model would be the Alpha based 1-series size Firebird Coupe/Hatch shared with a 3-door Holden-Vauxhall model along with an I-4 and V6 powered Grand Am Sedan. Moving up to 3-series size with V6 and V8 power would be the GTO coupe, Grand Prix Sedan and Holden-Vauxhall Torana.

This results in Pontiac having 7 models Solstice Coupe, Firebird, Grand Am, GTO, Grand Prix, Trans Am and G8 but could be trimmed to 5 if the TA and Grand Am were not offered leaving the Solstice Coupe, Firebird, GTO, Grand Prix and G8, all exciting models well priced, posing no overlap with Chevrolet and allowing room above them for Buick/Cadillac versions.

A little more elboration on GM's brand problem:

First off it is not an Eight Brand issue it is a Twelve Brand one on a Global basis and is the way GM must address this problem – too much time has been wasted trying to “perfect” brand pairings for the U.S. market when the U.S. market is weak and distorts the global picture.

Chevrolet
GMDAT
Buick
GMC
Holden
Opel
Pontiac
Saturn
Vauxhall
Hummer
Cadillac
SAAB

Second this Twelve Brand issue must be reduced to a Four “Channel” one.
(“Channel” is my word for it, but I just another way to say “brand pair” or “division pair” feel free to use your own).

Chevrolet-GMDAT
Buick-GMC
Holden-Opel-Pontiac-Saturn-Vauxhall-Hummer
Cadillac-SAAB

Third, reducing this to a Four Part problem makes it easier to focus on each channels needs and global growth (yes I used the word growth – time to start to think expanding markets not cut, cut , cut, cut….). I think what you talk about constantly ultimately affects your confidence and judgment, so GM must start talking only about GROWTH.

Putting Chevrolet-GMDAT together combines the “entry” brands together GLOBALLY and will use the Chevrolet name in all markets except South Korea and GMDAT facilities will produce other brand vehicles for local markets. This eliminates many duplicate models and will save billions of dollars in future product development and make Chevrolet-GMDAT a nimble global brand.

Making Buick-GMC a pair of complimentary brands (near luxury car and truck) will save ad dollars by being able to market Buick-GMC as a “single brand” similar to Chevrolet Cars and Chevrolet Trucks, after a while buyers will become used to Buick-GMC as a “single brand” not a “pair”. Costs can be saved on the car side by sharing models with either Pontiac-Saturn or Cadillac-SAAB based on local markets and of course trucks with Chevrolet – this sharing will result in higher margins for the Buick-GMC models on the Pontiac-Saturn ones and provide good volume for Cadillac-Saab ones with better margins across the line.

The combined global Holden-Opel-Pontiac-Saturn-Vauxhall-Hummer channel combines FWD and RWD performance cars with off road “performance” truck maker Hummer for a single global brand focus on performance. Putting them under one roof makes global marketing easier with combined dealers with a “single” focus – performance. This channel will also save billions worldwide with reductions in overlapping models (Aura/G6 and Astra/G5) to name two).
Like the Buick-GMC pair the Pontiac-Saturn-Hummer trio can be marketed to a “single” demographic since each part of the trio has a “singular” focus.

Finally the Cadillac-SAAB will be GM’s GLOBAL prestige luxury brand and can build on Cadillac’s resurgence and a promising future SAAB line of Turbo-X Xwd models which can be taken up market with the Cadillac “Sixteen” to take on the S-Class Mercedes, along with the Cien supercar and up market SRX replacement Range Rover competitor. SAAB can round out its line with MINI, WRX and EVO competitors in the “entry” end with Audi TT, A4, S4, A6, S6 and A8 competitors on the mid and upper levels.

This also ends the constant bickering of which brand “must go” and allows better focus due to the obvious fact there are fewer variables and the variables are aligned for the global market not hamstrung with a U.S. market one. With only Four global “channels” GM can cater to small markets by using only one “channel” like it does in South America with Chevrolet or a pair as is done in Australia with Holden which shares with GMDAT (note in my alignment Holden is already part of the Opel “channel”) This also allows vehicle sharing across channels as is done in China with the Park Avenue, and this can continue because once you “separate them together” you find there are very few overlaps and the ones that “pop up” can be dealt with by “fine tuning” the similarities out. (The term “separate them together sounds odd but when you put pairings, platforms and model names in a matrix it makes sense)

This approach will work – it will take some time and of course at least one “product cycle” I many cases but it can be started immediately on some current models.

Mr. Lutz: GM needs to keep brands from competing against each other while remaining distinct and desirable to the rest of the market.

If the Eight brand U.S. market is reviewed (with a conscious view toward Canada and Mexico) the “sales channels” break down as:

Chevrolet-GMDAT (Volume “channel” with small cars from GMDAT – like it is today)
Buick-GMC (Near Luxury “channel” focused on luxury amenities first – performance second)
Pontiac-Saturn-Hummer (Performance “Personal Image” with aggressive styling and performance)
Cadillac-SAAB (Prestige brand with GM’s top level power trains and luxury amenities)

Putting the Eight brands into Four “sales channels” forces you to create vehicles that fit the “sales channels” focus over what the brand alone stands for, making it easier to “separate” the model theme for a brand from a “shared” platform.

Once they have been “separated together” for the U.S. market it is just a matter of expanding what model best fits which global market and since all markets differ from each other, this will result in a Pontiac becoming a Buick and vice-versa.

Many will argue the GM has already decided on B-P-GMC and keeping Saturn separate but it has not been all that successful to date and putting Pontiac with Saturn eliminates the odd mix of young people going the a Buick dealer and seeing the formal styled luxury models – easier in a more vibrant “Personal Image” environment. It makes marketing easier and dealers only need one building for three similar brands – not two of one taste at the exclusion of the other. It can alleviate the Saturn dealer shortage (at least the one in California which is VERY real) and help expedite GM’s consolidation – I bet there are some successful Pontiac dealers not thrilled at the Buick part of the B-P-GMC alignment, but would welcome the Saturn one and still have a truck presence with Hummer. A Pontiac-Saturn-Hummer dealer would do a lot of personalization building on Saturn’s philosophy but may need to drop the “no haggle” policy (which I think the internet may have made obsolete), it will at least have to participate in GM sales promotions.

Having just Buick and GMC in an upscale dealer environment catering to the luxury cliental with a slower paced sales presentation in relaxed surroundings will preserve resale values and ultimately sales margins.

Same goes for Cadillac-Saab, together each can focus on being the top Prestige RWD (Cadillac) and FWD (Saab) brand at GM and they could share some AWD technology and both would have AWD offerings. GM can then offer high end SUV’s with Land Rover off road capabilities which are high but differ in relation to Hummer. Land Rover is more of a Safari vehicle taking owners on an adventure while Hummer owners are more for taking on extreme challenges like rock climbing. Both have very high off road capabilities but for On Road driving Land Rovers are more “Mall Roader” with sedate styling and luxury interiors and Hummer is more “Look at me Cruiser” with brush guards, lift kits and interior full of Subs.

My model lineup for each “Sales Channel” has very few overlaps even though I admit there are some “extra” models that are there because I like them (what’s the use of working this hard on a “dream” lineup if you don’t give yourself some favorites) and are not “mandatory”.

The sooner GM accepts the fact there will be eight brands in the U.S. market and focuses on properly aligning the brands with a global market view the better.

I couldn't agree more MAR, GMs steering wheels are terrible!