The Rebirth of Camaro
By Bob Lutz
GM Vice Chairman
Well, it’s finally here.
It feels like we’ve been talking about the Camaro for a long time, but it’s just been a couple of years since the concept car’s unveiling at the Detroit auto show, and now the production car is officially in the public eye, as of yesterday, July 21, 2008.
As promised, this is a Camaro for the new millennium, with subtle design nods to its rich heritage, and, I have to say, this is the best Camaro ever, in my opinion.
When I drove it during development, I was astounded every time. In fact, this was my already-reported reaction to driving a test car: “Twisting the key produced a muted rumble from the big V8. We pulled away smoothly in the first cog of the new, slick, six-speed manual. Depressing the accelerator shifted the world into fast forward, with three or four more quick upshifts. The car had just been completed and had had no tuning or finessing. But I loved the response, the sound, the steering and the brakes.”
That was slightly less than a year ago… and Gene Stefanyshyn’s team has refined the car even further, and I have to say I love the results. The improvement from the test car to the production car is exponential. This new Camaro is absolutely a no-compromises muscle car, with a beautiful design from Ed Welburn’s team that doesn’t look at all “retro.”
Obviously, the emphasis on fuel economy has increased since we first announced that a new Camaro would enter the market. But that was largely a moot point for us, because the goal all along was to build it with the best fuel economy we could possibly get, even before energy prices took their meteoric rise. I think the team succeeded there, too.
The Camaro’s two engine choices are both efficient options. One is a 300-hp 3.6-liter V6 that gets up to 26 mpg on the highway. And the other is a powerful 6.2-liter V8 for the SS model that makes 422 horsepower with a manual transmission, or 400 with an automatic that also features our fuel-saving Active Fuel Management system, which shuts down half the cylinders under light loads. The V8 is estimated at about 23 mpg on the highway.
This is not a high-volume vehicle for us, by any stretch, but it’s the kind of car that can do wonders for the image of Chevrolet, and of General Motors. I’m proud of the job the team did, and the speed in which they did it, and I can’t wait to see a Camaro sailing down the freeway. At legitimate, posted speeds, of course.
Lots more pictures over on Flickr.
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I like the options list. Also, love the ignition video. Heads up display, thats just awesome. The interior looks amazing, and the sound is great. By why the low number on the auto?
While I’m very happy to see the Camaro back and hope they sell tons, I have to say I’m mildly disappointed in it. It’s too heavy, and too hard on gas.
I’m one of those guys who only cares about performance – my daily driver is a 2001 Trans Am – so the 350 pound curb weight increase over the last Camaro strikes me as a very bad thing. Hurts performance, hurts gas mileage.
At least it’s lighter than a Challenger.
The new Camaro will be a home run for Chevy dealers to sell, there is quite the buzz about the car already. Give Scott and the team credit, they are very customer focused. The enthusiast focus group was a very good idea. The IRS will be a definate advantage over the Mustang. The styling of the car is well done. This car is gotta have!! Three hundred horsepower for the v6 model is impressive.
I have to respectfully disagree about the Camaro maximizing fuel economy. This car could have been brought to market sooner on the kappa platform, with a lower weight and all plastic body panels. Plastic panels would have reduced the vehicle weight by 150 pounds alone.
Mr. Lutz,
The Camaro really should become a high volume car. GM should also offer the 3.5 V-6 E-85 capable with higher 29 mpg or even a 40 mpg diesel.
GM is underestimating the sales potential of good looking mid-size coupes. GM let the designs of its best selling mid-sized coupes falter in the late 1980s. The 1977 Grand -Prix and 1977 Cutlass Supremes were among the best designed as well as the 1984-87 Cutlass Supreme.
The 6.2 V-8 is much more fuel efficient than the stickers show when driven properly, I wouldn’t be surprised to see this engine achieve 30 mpg on cruise control on the freeway. Many don’t realize that GM cars get much better mileage than advertised when driven right. The 07 Corvette we take to the beach gets 34 mpg on cruise control on the highway.
I have been waiting for a Camaro like this for a long time at it is absolutely awesome! Now, can we have a rebirth of the Chevy Impala as a full-size RWD sedan and classic styling?
One other thing – please offer a stripe package that has the hockey-stick stripes on the sides!
Edwin:
Don’t be fooled. The Camaro is not a mid-size coupe. It is actually a full-size car riding on the same platform (albeit slightly shortened) as the Pontiac G8. While not as large as the Challenger, it’s still a bigger wider can than its F-body predecessors.
gtjeff:
You would have had to really stretch the Kappa platform to make it mid-size. It is barely a small car platform (as the lack of a back seat or any kind of significant trunk would indicate). I would have been interested to see if a new mid-size platform could have emerged that would have underpinned a new RWD Pontiac G6 to support a truly mid-size Camaro.
I absolutely love this car. It is cool personified.
So, no turbo 4 cylinder? Buyers are going to be pissed (just kidding). But G8GXP buyers WILL be if we don’t get close to the same hp ratings from basically the parent chassis. (current GM ‘official until tested’ 403 with either trans and threat of Gas Guzzler Tax, to boot)
Beautiful styling……….Loved the interior at the unveiling. Can’t wait to order the 1st one!!!!
Mr Lutz:
I am definitely having a new Camaro.
The hardest thing is going to be choosing the colour, but the rest is decided already.
Well done.
What impressed me the most is the interior. It is significantly nicer than that of the Challenger. I was appalled with the fisher price interior of the Mustang. Well done.
The power out of the 6.2 impressed me as well. Chevy makes really nice pushrod V8s.
Checked out the G8 at the Pontiac dealer in Tyson’s Corner, VA. Very nice. The padding on the door panel is a nice touch. Please put some on the door panel and arm rest of the Malibu.
Dear Mr Lutz,
First and foremost, congratulations the new Camaro is beautiful!
I am leaving this comment here to convey how impressed I am with the changes at GM during your reign as product “Czar”.
The caliber of the vehicles being delivered today is greater than that of any GM product produced over the last 30 years.
The newest launches (Malibu, CTS, G8, Enclave, Acadia, Vue, etc.) are bringing customers into dealerships that previously would not have considered an American car.
Even better they are buying the vehicles once they experience them.
I am the current owner of a 2005 SRX4 V8, I traded my Acura RL for the SRX and could not be happier.
Our other vehicle is a 2004 Porsche Boxster S, and I can honestly say the Cadillac is built far better, and costs me much less to maintain.
My plan is to replace the Porsche with the CTS Coupe and the SRX with the new SRX based on the Provoq Concept.
I am the demographic you are seeking for Cadillac (at least as I understand it), mid 30’s, professional, affluent, etc.
I was brought up in a GM family, the first vehicle my father bought my mother was a new ‘66 Toronado, followed by a Buick Estate Wagon, Rivieras, Eldorados, etc.
Therefore I was predisposed to buy GM.
My first car was a Oldsmobile Cutlass, that however was my last GM/American car, until the SRX.
I have owned 3 Acuras(1 Integra, 1 TL, 1 RL), 1 BMW(5), 1 Toyota (4Runner), and of course the Porsche.
I relate all of this because I have just seen the first “official” photo of the new SRX.
If this is an accurate rendering of the new vehicle I will be forced to take my money elsewhere.
I was delighted with the Provoq concept and was prepared to make it my next vehicle.
I certainly hope the production SRX looks a whole lot more like the Provoq concept
when it arrives in dealerships next year.
If not well…
As I said before, my impression of you is one of a man who is in touch with what customers want in their vehicles, I hope this comment does not fall on deaf ears.
All the very best,
Sean-
Bob,
LONG LIVE CAMARO! Thank you!!! You have injected a modern shot in the arm for Chevy. GM needs product like this, and more of it. Style, sophistication, and modern technology combined with good old fashioned American muscle.
I have been chomping at the bit to place my order – an SS with the RS package, leather, moonroof, 6 speed manual, in silver with black leather….. and that cool ice blue interior accent lighting.
Again, thank you so much. Also, a big, big, BIG thanks goes out to the Camaro core team, Ed, Sheryl, Scott…… and especially Scott S. – he has helped us keep the Camaro light glowing (and refusing to let it die) since the last one rolled off the old St. Theresse line 6 years ago.
LS and LT trims on the base car, RS upgrades for both the base and SS… Where is the Z28?
also, i hope that igniton video isnt completely correct. It better be at more than 48 mph in 3rd gear at 6 grand…just a car guy perspective…
WILL A Z-28 CAMARO BE BUILT, IF SO WHAT MODEL YEAR?
Great car for Chevy and for GM.
Can’t wait for the production Riviera.
Let’s imagine some nameless benefactor were to set a Challenger, Mustang, and Camaro in front of me and say, “Your choice, take whichever you want — no charge.”
Based on a purely visceral* reaction in response to how they look, I would have to pick the Challenger — orange of course, and with a Hemi. Second would be the Mustang, if for no other reason than the chase scene in the 1968 movie, “Bullitt.”
* For cars like this, visceral trumps all else.
Rum Doodle. Would you care to explain your visceral choice? Why the challenger, and why the mustang. What is it about them that makes them the “superior choice”?
Oh Yeah. Bias has nothing to do with your choice?
Too heavy. Hopefully this is the last GM car to suffer that malady.
The exterior looks great and the interior is very unique. very little from the GM parts bin in this Camaro and that is a good thing. I am looking forward to seeing more real photos of the interior.
“Would you care to explain your visceral choice?”
Brady,
It’s visceral — that means I don’t have to be able to explain it. It’s the feeling you get when you know something looks right. It sounds like what is “visceral” to you is different than what is “visceral” to me. Nothing wrong with that, it’d be pretty boring if all six billion people on earth had the same taste.
But given the choice of the three “pony” cars, I would go with the Challenger. (It’s too bad American Motors isn’t still around so they could do a retro-version of the Javelin or AMX.)
Actually, I’m not going to own any of the three. I’m too pragmatic for that. But I would like to be able to buy an Opel Agila or the Brazilian-made Chevrolet Montana here — especially if I could get either with a turbo-diesel and a six-speed manual transmission.
Bob,
Congratulations on what should be an amazing car. The body design is beautiful and the engine choices are right where a Camaro should be – well ahead of the Ford Mustang.
Like others here, I am excited to see the new Camaro hit the showrooms in March 2009. Priced right, the Camaro could be a real volume seller for Chevrolet. Any idea on when pricing will be announced?
Conrgats again. The Camaro is definitely a car I would like to have in my garage.
Worth the wait, and worth it’s weight in gold!
I love the new Camaro!
Retro, but entirely modern in design. Super choice of engines with excellent mpg’s for the muscle car crowd. Anyone would be down right proud to own one of these babies. Otta crank a lot of heads driving down the boulevard.
I wonder if a turbo4 is feasible? That might help keep this baby rolling long into the future.
Otta crank a lot of heads driving down the boulevard.”
That Sir, is an extremely poor reason for owning any particular brand of car. A car is a transportation tool, not a status symbol with which to turn heads.
Any chance of seeing a full on revival of the “Coke bottle” design theme? The teardrop/bar of soap theme has about played out.
Looks fantastic.
Soooo disappointed about the weight. My old 3200 lb IROC w/ 4spd auto would get better fuel economy.
The new Camaro is awesome but wheres the Larger engine that is to compete with the 500hp Shelbys???
“That Sir, is an extremely poor reason for owning any particular brand of car. A car is a transportation tool, not a status symbol with which to turn heads.”……….
And THAT sir, is why you probably drive the utmost in boring vehicles like a Camry or Prius, while I will be ordering a Camaro SS/RS the minute GM lets me!
You are completely entitled to your opinions, just like I am with mine
… Just keep in mind, you bring opinions like that to a blog reguarding the Camaro you’re liable to take some heat.
This blog is about the return of the Camaro, in which the canceling of the Camaro in the first place in 2002 was, to me, the same as the Dodgers leaving Brooklyn in 1957.
Very disappointed in the final weight. Very. The heavy Zeta architecture is simply not suitable for a Camaro. What a shame.
Hey Bob -
Congrats man, its going to be a nice niche homerun for you guys. I post many times, especially about my beloved Pontiac. In 1991 Pontiac was the third best selling brand in America. I think the SUV craze and the Pontiac infatuation with body cladding helped nosedive the numbers. But I see things getting better. My g6 GTP is great (3.6 w/6-speed), and the G8 is to die for. I see that there is already $500 rebates on the G8 – I think $4 gas is not helping it sale. The GXP will be a great car for a small % of people looking for real high end performance. But I was thinking the G8 could use the 300-hp CTS v-6, and call it the STE. I have always been a big fan of the original 83 STE, and if you go to Jalopnik.com, they have been discussing how great that GM A-body was. If you could shed 200-300 pounds off the G8, put in that high performance 6, and have a conservative euro-look (less aggressive wheels and some darker paint schemes), I think you have a big big winner on your hands. It would fit in great with the GT and GXP line up.
Oh, great idea with hosting Jay Leno’s Garage – car junkies check that stuff out.
Eric P
- Nigel Gamecock
That’s “mam” to you sir!
And what I am referring to is eye appeal, or…”I gotta have one of those someday” feelings. That sells a lot of cars and brings in a lot more customers too. When you see a hot car rumble past on the boulevard, don’t you even just want to peek at it a little?
Dreams are what cars are made of; and some cars are made into your dreams. Et voila…enter the Camaro stage right!
“Soooo disappointed about the weight. My old 3200 lb IROC w/ 4spd auto would get better fuel economy”
Maybe, what do you get now 25? At the same time, this camaro will out accelerate, out brake, and out handle your IROC. Dont forget GM usually under-rates fuel economy.
“It’s visceral — that means I don’t have to be able to explain it.”
If its pure visceral, then why does the challenger need a hemi? Why the mustang because of the Bullit chase scene? That is not pure visceral. That is media and advertisment influence.
Lutz said: “It feels like we’ve been talking about the Camaro for a long time…”
Mr Lutz,
No kidding. You have been talking about making what is only a “pony” car almost as long as it took the Manhattan Project to go from Einstein’s letter to FDR, to the first atomic explosion at the Trinity Site in New Mexico.
V/R
Gary Dikkers
This is trully a car for people who love cars
The people of GM Holden have done an outstanding job AGAIN!
I really believe GM should just handover all its work to those guys – they are the only GM division that has never lost its passion for cars.
Hopefully the GM’s unfortunate financial position in north america doesn’t negatively impact Holden; the real heart of GM!!
Really what were you people thinking? Gas prices have been on the upswing since Bush took office, 71/2 years ago. 26 mpg on the highway is a disgrace and unacceptable. The V/8 and V/6 should be scrapped, pronto. A high performance version of the Volt system or an all electric motor like the Tesla roadster is what it should have. Stop looking in the rear view mirror and watch the road ahead.
Looking ahead, GM faces huge threats from Honda and Ford. Honda’s gonna introduce 4 hybrids(Fit Hybrid, Prius Killer, Redesigned Civic Hybrid, and CRZ Hybrid) between now and 2015. Ford will introduce Euro-based small cars, convertibles and sedans in the US. The Ford EcoBoost TDI V6 with 415hp is really a dream engine, compared to a regular 270 hp V6. And take a look at this CTC Concept drawing at http://www.worldcarfans.com/9080114.009/mini12/cadillac-cts-coupe-concept-unveiled-at-naias, and you can see Cadillac has so much huge potential, yet GM squanders all the money on rebadges and neglectable brands. With the BLS sedan(baby Cadillac), coupe, convertible, a redesigned RWD DTS and a Saturn Sky derivative(mini Cadillac) to complete the lineup, Cadillac has the chance to truly become the Standard of the World. It’s time to act. Start by merging or consolidating Chevrolet with PBG channel and Cadillac with Saturn. And when it’s time to axe the brands, you just have to compensate dealers with little money. There’s nothing to lose on both the dealers’ end and GM’s. Hummer and Saab should just be sold off. GM would be lucky to stabilize its market share at 20%. Without decisive actions and getting ripped of emotional baggage, the consequences could be dire. Consider this a warning.
Jamie: “That’s “ma’am” to you sir! When you see a hot car rumble past on the boulevard, don’t you even just want to peek at it a little?”
My deepest apologies Ma’am. No, I only sneak a peek at Ferrari’s, Shelby AC Cobras, and may sometimes look at a Lamborghini.
Your humble servant,
Nigel
~ “If its pure visceral, then why does the challenger need a hemi? Why the mustang because of the Bullit chase scene? That is not pure visceral. That is media and advertisement influence.”
C’mon Brady, if a Hemi isn’t pure visceral, nothing is. I’m sure GM wishes they had a motor with as much individuality and name recognition as “Hemi.”.
No doubt GM also wishes that director Peter Yates had picked a Camaro instead of a Mustang for Steve McQueen to drive in what is arguably the most famous car chase scene ever filmed*. (A car chase scene Ford is still benefiting from, even after 40 years.)
———————————
* Followed closely by the chase scene in the movie The Blues Brothers. (Which GM wasn’t part of either. That was a Mopar Dodge Monaco police interceptor.)
Re my prior post, the more I read, I hear your putting a turbo 4 in the China Park Ave. Putting that in a G8 STE would be really cool, as well, as long as the weight can come down.
Thanks,
Eric
I’m just curious as to how your going to see the Hemi through the hood? In your situation its just looking at cars, nothing about peeking under the hood. To me, the Hemi goes with mullets and rednecks. Dodge knows it, thats why they used mullets and rednecks to talk about the Hemi. Yes, the name Hemi is known and for some reason feared, but I know alot more back down from LS powered…just about anything. Look at all the applications. They put them in RX7’s, Porsche’s, Jaguars, Colorados, S10’s, tons of older GM and non-GM applications. (I believe there was a turbo maverick with a stock 5.3 and a ls6 cam running 9’s.) The LS motor may not have the herritage, but its got the respect. Anyways, off that soap box.
I agree GM needs a good chase scene. I can’t think of any off the top of my head. (Transformers doesnt really count..even though I liked it)
That’s great muscle car I think, but can it turn into Bumblebe? I’ll spend all my budget if it can.
Great looking car. Looking forward to the real live version on the lots. I’m sure you’ll sell what you build. With that said (and without reading through the posts), please try and keep your cars more of a secret in the future. Yes, it has only been a “few years” since the car appeared at the show, but by the time we can actually buy one it will have been 3 years!!! In the minds of many consumers, this car will be old by the time it hits the streets, no matter how you spin it. Refresh us, surprise us, show us something for the first time in January that we can buy in July – in the same calendar year!!. Talk about a change of strategy that would without a doubt get your consumers talking and would put a scare in Toyota!!! Make GM exciting NOW, not 2 years ago.
“The V/8 and V/6 should be scrapped, pronto. A high performance version of the Volt system or an all electric motor like the Tesla roadster is what it should have. Stop looking in the rear view mirror and watch the road ahead.”
check the mileage of cars like the G37, 350Z and 335i coupe before calling the Camaro’s mileage a disgrace. The much pricier G37 gets worse highway mileage than the Camaro V6. 26mpg is near the top of the class for V6 powered two door cars. The Malibu only gets 26mpg with 252hp.
Those talking about how long its taken this car to come to market need to remember that it normall takes 3 years or so to get a car from concept to production. If I’m not mistaken the Camaro was confirmed for production in 2006 so a 2009 launch is on target. Only because GM confirmed this car at the very beginning of the development phase does it seem like this car has taken a long time to materialize.
Now I finally understand that why Chevrolet Cruze is gonna built at Lordstown instead of in Mexico. According to http://www.forbes.com/markets/2008/07/03/greatwall-chrysler-jv-markets-equity-cx_tw_0703markets06.html, corporate average fuel economy regulations do not count cars manufactured abroad in their measurement of the overall fuel efficiency of a carmaker’s fleet. I have no problem with that, because I love Lordstown. I think GM should make Lordstown the center of small car making. That includes Beat, Aveo, Cruze and even the Volt! Also from http://www.forbes.com/markets/2008/07/08/ford-gm-closer-markets-equity-cx_lal_0708markets30.html?boxes=relstories, Chinese sales of GM’s Chevrolet brand vehicles, made jointly with S.A.I.C. in China, jumped 34.6% to 109,131 units while sales of its Buick brand vehicles totaled 146,321 units. It sold 3,285 Cadillac vehicles during the first six months of 2008. GM actually sells more Buicks than Chevrolets in China. Buick has a huge strategic advantage in what would become the world’s largest auto market.
I am so glad that Maximum Bob is listening to my ideas. Thank you.
How about a supercharger/turbo to the 3.6 Di & add variable displacement for an SS version?
While the Camaro looks to be a fun car, it’s already old news before one even hits the streets. Next time, try either: (1) Keeping the lid on it so that the buzz doesn’t wear off before it’s even for sale or (2) bringing a car to market in less than an eternity. While people have waited and waited (and seen it in a movie), we’ll be on the second retro Mustang, a Challenger that’s already on the lots, and a platform-sharing G8 that will be in it’s third model year.
On another subject, I can’t believe that the Opel Insignia isn’t coming to North America “as is”. Why is it delayed, and why does it need exterior and interior changes. Once again, GM thinks that American tastes = “bland-mobile” while Euros actually get the cool cars. While Ford decides to its next generation cars the same as the stylish Euro-models, GM will once again screw theirs up to fit an image of the what they think we want. You gave us the Commodore and Astra….let’s bring the Insignia.
I love GM, and I own all GM vehicles, but this is beyond frustrating.
~ “I’m just curious as to how your going to see the Hemi through the hood? In your situation its just looking at cars, nothing about peeking under the hood. To me, the Hemi goes with mullets and rednecks.”
LMAO Brady,
A true redneck with a mullet would probably dust off the old oxycetelene torch and cut a hole in the hood so everyone could get a good look at his Hemi. It would be one of those “Hey everybody, look at this.” moments.
Great machine, love it.
Have a question for the designers of dashes…..Bob, you are a car type guy. Where are we or beter yet WHY dont we have a car dash with readable gauges.
Where are the BIG 5 inch diameter WHITE GAUGES with BIG black numbers and RED indicator needles. You remember them dont you Bob. The ones we can read and dont burn out or fluoresce etc.
You know, the ones that are cool.
Think AutoMeter here. Take some of the young kid designers to the Car Parts store and show them how gauges are supposed to look. Then put them in the camaro….and the Malibu SS that is hopefully coming soon.
Take a look at this at http://cmsimg.detnews.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=C3&Date=20080802&Category=AUTO01&ArtNo=808020384&Ref=AR&Profile=1148
, it is absolutely unacceptable that GM’s car sales dropped 12.1% compared to
Ford – gain of 1.9%
Nissan – 2.4%
and Honda – 14%!!!!!!
The cannibalization of Chevrolet by Pontiac and Saturn has taken its toll. Another reason is Honda’s Integrated Motor Assist (IMA) system is gaining market share. GM’s BAS Plus has yet debuted, and it’s big question mark whether it would be as efficient as Honda’s IMA. There are basically three kinds of car buyers. The first emphasize style and design. The second prefer fuel-efficiency. Whereas the third would like to have both. Honda’s obviously winning the second group, and to some degree the third group. Selling off undesirable brands is the way to go. If GM Europe can make 500 million a quarter( 2 billion a year), there’s no reason why GM NA can’t do it.
GM Europe doesn’t even sell pickup trucks!!!!!
Dear Bob Lutz,
Why dont you do the obvious sell Opels in North America? While GM America turns in a huge loss GM Europe is making a profit. Why? They are selling fuel efficient, attractive cars while GM America are trying to sell gas guzzlers hoping the dollar will rise and the oil price drop.
I know that its not profitable to sell Opels in the US by shipping them from Europe. What I am proposing is that you retool your US factories and remake the bodywork a bit and slap a bowtie on the hood and calling the cars Chevrolet. Its as easy as that to save GM.
I know that you Americans hate the Germans but now is the time to get down to business. GM is a global company and according to the doctrine of Globalization its all about “value neutral profit maximization”.
Toyota builds anywhere, designs anywhere and sells anywhere its about time GM did the same. Stop inventing the wheel twice work with what you got.
Kind regards
Mats Lindblom
PS. The Camaro looks great, The Volt as well although its a longshot.
I think the new Camaro looks pretty slick and I am relieved that it will be smaller than the Challenger. Of course the devil will be in the details. Fasttie.com has tons of links to the latest reviews and articles on the new Camaro: http://www.fasttie.com/default.aspx/2010/CHEVROLET/CAMARO
~ “I know that you Americans hate the Germans but now is the time to get down to business.”
Mats,
Why would you think that? Many Americans have a fondness for Germans and things German. In fact, people of Germanic heritage makes one of the largest percentage of the U.S. population. Over 60 million Americans can trace part of their heritage back to German-speaking countries, and in Wisconsin, over 50% of the population has Germanic roots.
In Milwaukee, Wisconsin, they recently held their annual German Fest, and event they’ve been holding for years. ~~ http://www.germanfest.com/
~ “If GM Europe can make 500 million a quarter( 2 billion a year), there’s no reason why GM NA can’t do it. GM Europe doesn’t even sell pickup trucks!!!!!”
GMisCARKING makes and excellent point. One I’d like to see Mr. Wagoner and Mr. Lutz address directly. Why can GM Europe be profitable selling mostly small, fuel efficient cars while eschewing the big pickup trucks and SUVs that Mr. Lutz says are necessary in the U.S. to be profitable?
Mr. Lutz,
I love Camaros. Always have! I own a 2001 SS that is significantly modified, very fast, and doesn’t play well with others…
The styling of this machine, and the promise of fixing age-old Camaro complaints (grenading 10 bolt rear ends, squeaks and rattles, cheapie interiors, etc…), is very, very exciting.
Sadly, I have what i think is a valid criticism here:
The car is too big and too darned heavy.
The car needs a crash VA/VE program to remove costs, the savings from which GM can then utilize to remove mass from the vehicle. I’m not talking about de-contenting, but real, honest-to-goodness engineering work.
Here’s a freebie:
The parking brake cables, as currently routed, have a fastener and clamp attaching them to the upper A arms on the IRS on each side. I’m pretty sure that clamp and fastener can be eliminated on each side and the cable routed slightly differently with no effect on function.
Earth-shattering? No. But the best i can do off of a picture at this point… and it’ll save money and mass… and it’s free.
There’s bound to be lots more, all over the vehicle. It just takes a fresh perspective and determination to find them and push them through.
Mats,
If you step back for a second, and maybe change your perspective a little bit…
A funny thing happened after World War Two… American GI’s realized, to their astonishment, that the people on mainland Europe that they seemed to have the most in common with culturally and socially were the Germans that they had just finished fighting against.
I would humbly submit that your idea that Americans hate Germans is simply just not correct.
We don’t.
Furthermore, as pointed out by an earlier poster, were we to hate Germans, in large part we’d be hating ourselves.
thank you GM camaro team for making such a awesome looking car. I’m sure this will be a best seller . However I’m still concerned about the future of this vehicle, and would hate to see it no longer made in the future. My biggest concern is the camaro’s weight, its way to heavy, please consider reducing the weight for future camaro’s, it will most definitely help with fuel economy not to mention performance.
First off, the CTC-V coupe should be based on this concept at http://www.worldcarfans.com/9080114.009/mini12/cadillac-cts-coupe-concept-unveiled-at-naias. I believe this car will make a huge difference, and make Cadillac the Standard of the World again!
In October 29, 2007 issue of the Fortune magazine, there’s an article about Carlos Ghosn and Nissan. Ghosn is no doubt GM’s biggest enemy, but you can still learn a lot from your enemy. There were also some highlights:” Says a dealer who carries several brands:’At Toyota people are coming in to buy a Toyota. Not at Nissan – it’s a second tier brand. We make only $600 per car proft on a Nissan, while we make $2,000 a car on the stronger brands.’ ”
There were some scathing comments by JS Smith, a former autoworker at GM at http://www.autosavant.net/2008/08/is-anyone-dumber-than-gm-executive.html. The highlights were:”
Not only was GM being idiotic in its decision to not have the Beat available for sale in the US in its first generation when consumer demand for small, efficient vehicles is at a fever pitch, but the company was also dishonest about its intentions and plans for the small cars with the public. An executive team that obviously sneers at small cars (and their smaller profit margins) while instead focusing its collective energy on large crossovers and trucks is not one that excels at contingency planning.
This is how you go from a 50% market share to under 20% in a generation. Trained monkeys could do better than the crumb-bums in the RenCen”
There is an interesting article at http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20080613/153276/
titiled “New Fuel Cell System Generates Electricity with Only Water, Air”. I think it’s such an amazing system. It obviates the need for a complicated hydrogen storage tank to store compressed or liquid hydrogen. There will be no headache to find a hydrogen filling station. I think GM should either acquire Genepax Co Ltd the company or license its technology.
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For anyone who has implied that simply bringing GME to the U.S. to sell cars would “solve all GM’s problems” let me shed some light on the subject you may have failed to consider. It is true GM does make far more money on small cars in Europe than here in the states. HOWEVER . . . not only do those same small cars comand a FAR higher price in europe than the U.S. (remember your profit margins!), the demand for them is also much higher due to VASTLY higher gas prices.
Also as a side note, GM does sell Opel right here in the U.S. It’s just called Saturn, so if you want one head on down to your local dealership!
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*** Finnally to make the point I actually came to this post to make . . . Mr. Lutz, a truly remarkable car has been crafted under your supervision here. My thanks for all you have done and continue to do to bring Chevrolet and GM back around to the right path with respect to styling. I do however feel that significant congratulations is also due to Mr. Welburn (V.P. global design) for the fantastic work he has done on this and other recent vehicles.
–> All that being said I have one minor request. Might it be possible to do without the fake non-functional rear fender slits (which really aren’t even slits but rather just indents)? The true open hole slits on the concept really never lent anythign to it’s character anyways and the tamer production version just looks like a blemish on what otherwise is an extremely clean, powerful, homogeneous design. Just my two cents take it or leave it!
I can’t stop think how heavy the camaro is, I can’t put my finger on anything else because the designing team made a superb job. But the dam weight it really is killing this otherwise awesome car. I hope The camaro engineers are working things out stat, I hope weight reduction can be done before the car begins production. I truly think that this weight issue is unacceptable. I will buy this car but only if it weighs less than 3,300 lbs. My biggest reason is fuel economy and performance. IF anyone knows anything about what is being done about weight issue please post it.
I often talk about style and quality. What else could a person want. The new Camaro is hot, hot , hot! Then again, the cobalt is hot too. It is about style. GM quality is on the rise. In a world of trading, quality is important. Thanks GM! Let’s keep America strong.
If you want the car to lose weight, then you have to change the american perception. The government follows what the people want (most of the time), and americans wanted cars that they could smash into a tree at 80 mph and walk away, because the accident “wasn’t their fault.” Start the revolution of people taking responsibility for their actions, and maybe we can get lighter cars.
The Production 2010 Camaro looks nice. The interior is tricky but nice also. But I have to say what about Navigation and HD Radio? Where is the NAV screen going to go? I’m waiting for the Z28 model with the LS7 and or LS9 engines and styling of the concepts front air scoop and chrome fuel cap on the rear top left quarter. It looks kool! Otherwise, I can’t wait until I get mine the way I want.
With the arrival of Camaro in the market beginning next year I can see an easy re-entry to some excitement many of us last witnessed in the early 1970’s. I refer to racing. Specifically road racing although Camaro also has a rich drag racing legacy too. But I remember the personal excitement of Trans-Am racing back in the day. And now suddenly three of the principal combatants are back in the market with Mustang (though it never left), Challenger and now our own beloved Camaro. Back in the late 60’s and early 70’s there was a wide assortment of road racing warriors with Pontiac, Chevrolet, Dodge, Plymouth, Ford, Mercury and even Amerrican Motors participating. I believe a road racing series similar to Trans-Am would be ideal to showcase the atrributes of Camaro. And it would help selling some cars, not that we will need much help selling the gorgeous Camaro. It doesn’t require a visionary to see how that would work. Perhaps we could even entice Mr. Penske to field a team. As I recall he did rather well. I know with the current economic climate around the GM Ranch the prospect of spending copious amounts of precious resources on yet another racing series may not be popular. But I think it’s been proven over time that racing and success on the track translate pretty directly into sales. I think Camaro showed up at just the right time.
If I’m not mistaken; GM has been selling Opels in North America. Starting with the 1994/5 Model year Saab 9-3 (Vectra), Cadillac Catera, Saturn L-series, Ion, and the minivan triplets (Montana,Venture et al) ;Colbalt (04-present) and before that Chevette (Kadette, Isuzu I-Mark) and the infamous Daewoo (Pontiac LeMans)………..
I always smirk when someone brags that their “new” Saturn Astra is really an “Opel from Germany, like…..” and I tell them about the same Colbalt that’s been produced from 2004 on the Delta platform…..
Brady Turley said:
“If you want the car to lose weight, then you have to change the american perception. The government follows what the people want (most of the time), and americans wanted cars that they could smash into a tree at 80 mph and walk away, because the accident “wasn’t their fault.” Start the revolution of people taking responsibility for their actions, and maybe we can get lighter cars”
You can thank the Germans for this onslaught of ultra safe and slightly overweight cars we now drive. Back the in 70’s Mercedes and to a lesser extent BMW was experimenting with reinforced safey cages and multiple airbags. By the mid-80s they were making cars with available front airbags, crumple zones, and reinforced (heavy) passenger cabin structures, and folks in the States were catching on to how safe these cars were in comparison to the typical American car of the time.
It didn’t help when survelence video from the late 1980’s on the Autobahn showed a drunk in a 600 SEL flip the car at 120 mph, land in a ditch, and actually get out of the thing himself… all the while not wearing a seatbelt.
After that, yes, Americans rushed to their nearest politician and demanded our cars come with every airbag and impact absorbing device under the sun.
First of all, this is a great looking vehicle. As a former Camaro owner, I also believe this car will sell very well, despite the current high price of gas. However, I would argue that the current V-6 option does not live up expectations in terms of mileage (26 HWY). I understand the selection in terms of competing with cars like the Nissan Z, as it delivers comparable horsepower and mileage, but shouldn’t GM offer a more economical V6 as well. I currently own a ‘07 Monte Carlo with the 3500 V6 and the gas mileage is much better (29 HWY) than the 3.6L current offered in the Camaro.
I am sure there are plenty of future 2010 Camaro owners that will buy this car on looks alone, so why not offer a V6 that delivers superb fuel economy? One more note, please find a way to shed 200 pounds off this vehicle. As the Corvette evolved it lost weight, why is the 2010 Camaro heavier that the 2002 model?
While the IRS may help with cornering and in the magazine reviews, the reality is that it added a huge amount of weight and complexity to the Camaro.
The IRS in the GTO was fragile as glass and there is very little aftermarket support. There is little acknowledgement of this fact, nor does there seem to be any attempts to avoid the same problem with the new Camaro.
As nice as the Camaro is, it weighs nearly 4,000 lbs!
How about, a no leather, non loaded up, v-8 model with a 6-speed?
How about some factory driven aftermarket parts?
It sure would be nice to know that GM has a diff support for drag-strip launches, lower gears, a stout limited slip, and some HD half-shafts.
Is the Camaro a poor-man’s ‘Vette, or a Pony Car?
I now know exactly why there is no reg.cab 2wd V-8 Colorado option.
My Sunday paper had a nice review of the new Camaro yesterday. One puzzling thing though.
They showed a picture of the 2010 Camaro in profile. If they hadn’t labeled the picture, I would have guessed that someone took images of the Mustang and Challenger and morphed them together using one of those software programs for combining two or more images into a single, morphed image. No kidding, in side-profile, the Camaro does look like what you’d get combining a Challenger and Mustang.
The Space-Time Continuum
The other possible explanation is that a Mustang and Challenger fell together through a wormhole in the space-time continuum and what popped out the other side is a blended version of the two that someone decided to name Camaro. Could the new Camaro be an unintended tribute to Quantum Mechanics?
Will the new Camaro come with a built-in flux capacitor?
I remember when I worked at GM and suggested this idea amongst many others that are all now being considered or already incorporated into current models. “Saving GM” could have been put on tv a few years early and some money could have been saved, but you were right we can’t just do something because everyone else is doing it.
I’m dissapointed that the limited slip differential is not available with the V6/automatic transmission combination. My wife was dead set on getting a 2010 Camaro until we found out about the limited slip diff issue. She had a 2000 Camaro V6 with limited slip and electronic traction control. That car got her thru plenty of deep snow falls up here in the Detroit area without a problem. My 07 STS is rear drive with traction control and is scary in the snow and gets stuck real easy. GM is going back to rear wheel drive platforms and not giving the customers who want the V6/automatic with the limited slip option. Anybody know why?
Me too. I’m sure it’s a marketing decision and not a technical issue. Sometimes you have to really wonder what goes through their heads when they decide what to market to us.
Attn: Bob Lutz & General Motors Staff
Re: An Open Request
Please, please let us sit in the Camaro at the NAIAS this year! I have drooled over the concept from behind the velvet ropes for years, and I long to sit inside one of my new favorite cars! (and I know there’s probably no way it can be arranged until I can scratch up $100,000, but I’m not exaggerating when I say one of my life’s goals is to touch a Corvette ZR1)
I’ve been sailing the new Camaro down the freeway never noticing the posted speed. If Camaro was a man I would love to get married!