Pontiac G3 – Addressing the Rumors
By Jim Hopson
Manager, Pontiac Communications
Although there have been rumors floating around all summer, we can now confirm that the G3 is officially coming to the U.S.
If you haven’t heard, the Pontiac G3 is a stylish five-door that features excellent fuel efficiency (27 mpg city, 34 mpg highway) plus a high level of standard content and interior passenger space, all rolled into a vehicle that fills a current void in our product portfolio of the fastest growing segment in the market, small cars.
We’re talking five star crash rating, the best shoulder and hip room in its class, comfortable seating for four adults (five, if you’re “friendly”), the best city fuel economy of any vehicle Pontiac offers, and what we expect to be the lowest starting price in the Buick-Pontiac-GMC showroom. You can check out Pontiac.com to learn more.
But, as with all rumors, there are those who have already been critical and have raised a number of questions about why we would bring the G3 to the U.S. We could give a whole series of rationale, business-like answers, but we’d rather just shoot from the hip, so here goes…
Isn’t the G3 just a re-badged Chevy Aveo? The G3 and Aveo share a lot of components, true. But Toyota and Lexus also share components. Why re-engineer the wheel unnecessarily?
Why do you need a G3 and a Vibe? Put 
the cars side-by-side and you’ll see the difference clearly. The G3 is about 16-inches shorter than the Vibe, so, while they are both five-doors, they are in two different classes. Kinda like saying a Corvette ZR1 and a Yugo are the same thing just because they’ve both got four wheels.
How can the G3 possibly be a Pontiac? Because it’s sporty and fun-to-drive when compared to many of the cars in its segment. True, it’s not a RWD V8, but that’s why the G8 is sitting in the same showroom. Different strokes for different folks.
The long and short of it is that only a fool buries his head in the sand when times are changing, and, with one hundred years in the business, we’ve never seen the automotive world change as much as it has in the past 18-months. Pontiac customers, both new and old, are changing their priorities, too, and we want to be there for them with a complete line of sporty alternatives.
The G3 is a great little car, pure and simple, and we hope you’ll feel the same when you test drive one as it arrives in dealerships in spring 2009. Is it perfect? Heck, no, but that’s why your feedback here and in other forums is so important.
Change and growth are never easy, but knowing that we’re all in it together makes its possible.
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As a Pontiac guy living in Canada, I fail to see how the G3 enhances the Pontiac brand.
I’m not asking Pontiac to bury their heads in the sand, I’m asking GM to give Pontiac the appropriate DNA to build Pontiacs.
You know, “we build excitement?” Built for drivers?” I fail to see how a G3 Sedan falls into those categories.
I’m not even saying the Aveo is a bad car, IMO it just doesn’t fit as a Pontiac.
(I own two Trans Ams, used to own a Fiero, and the wife may yet be buying a Solstice. I’m also still ticked the GTO never came to Canada and have tried to justify a G8 GXP as a family car.)
As if fighting off the image of all the grand ams and sunfires rolling around wasn’t bad enough. Quit catering to the dang dealers! They don’t know what’s best. Never have, never will.
I can not believe how stupid this is. GM has been making some really nice cars and some nice decisions lately, but this sure as heck isn’t one of them. And unless you did some serious tweaking to the Aveo, this car is NO WAY what a Pontiac should be.
A comparison to Toyota and Lexus sharing parts? So is the G3 the Lexus to the Aveo’s Toyota? GM needs to stop diluting their brand images (nod to Raymond J’s previous comment on Pontiac excitement), stop selling re-badged vehicles across brands, and focus on building multi-level vehicle segments by brand that retain brand image and offer customers within that brand a level of choices to move up or down through. As a GM shareholder I am as irritated by this announcement as I was excited by the recent Volt reveal.
I like the G3 – it is a very economical car. Although I am not a fan of re-badging, it does offer someone shopping at a Pontiac dealership access to an extremely affordable, basic vehicle. The real problem here is the dealer structure – if GM really acted as one company, then dealerships would have been setup to offer all products. The person walking into a Pontiac dealership could have said, “Hey, I want an Aveo – can you order it for me.” This would save GM from having to rebadge all of their cars, just to fit the dealer model.
Obviously this is a huge problem to overcome – what can GM do? I think a solution would be to offer a brand that does not have a home dealership and make that brand accesible to any GM dealer. Make the lineup for that brand diverse enough to cover most needs, without stepping across the targeted definitions of your other brands. Maybe cars like this could just be badged as “GM” or if you are looking to eliminate Saturn anyway, then consider this a new idea for the “different car, different company” strategy.
Next, really focus on the brands going forward, Cadillac = luxury, Chevrolet = value, Pontiac = performance, Saab = European, GMC = utility, Buick = ???. When a model like the Aveo comes out, position it first as a GM product, then if it meets a specific brand image, tailor it to that brand. If you can offer a value based model, call it a Chevrolt, if you add a performance variant call it a Pontiac. If it doesn’t fit your brand model then leave it available for all brands. This doesn’t reduce the number of models available but it does keep your brand image in tact. It might even keep your dealers happier, knowing that they can have access to more vehicles, even if their brand has less.
The danger you run in badging cars like the G3 as a Pontiac is that you really just deflate the brand image. A previous poster mentioned how he failed to see how the G3 fit the Pontiac brand image (excitement, built for drivers). With cars like the G3, I fail to see how Pontiac has a brand image.
I agree that Pontiac needs to fill the small car void in its product portfolio.
However a rebadged Daewoo -Chevy Aveo does not cut the mustard. Seriously…Daewoo stylish?? Not.
I would have much rather seen a turbocharged Opel Astra instead. Now that’s excitement!
GM keeps pouring gasoline on the fire.
Oh come on, Pontiac hasn’t been pure “Pontiac Excitement” since, oh I don’t know, when they got rid of the L67 perhaps? Have you ever driven a G5? Or a Vibe? Hardly exciting.. It’s just more of the same, and it’s all because the Pontiac dealers need more traffic… I, for one, can’t blame GM for doing this. They’re starting to give us some kickass cars (G8, Solstice, and, besides it’s ugly mug, the G6 GXP), so we’d be wrong for nitpicking at what GM’s done. If they only sold G8s, the traffic wouldn’t be hardly as much if they didn’t have their volume sellers. So, if this is what GM has to do to provide us with some pretty sweet cars, then I wouldn’t mind at all…
The comparison to Toyota and Lexus is misleading. An ES350 may be an upmarket Camry, but the ES350 is packed to the gills with luxury appointments and features. It may be fair to call the ES a higher trim level to the Camry (which is essentially all it is) but nobody’s talking about trim levels. We’re talking about badge engineering. There is little if any trim difference between a G3 and an Aveo. They are the same car, appealing to the same market, being bought by the same people. That’s sad.
This car isn’t really sporty is it…unless you’ve changed the suspension from the Aveo. Its not even luke-warm, its very poor and thats a real shame because there are some great GM products coming out now, including the G8.
If you are going to do badge engineering this way, then surely Pontiac needs more than just a new grille. How about a more powerful engine from the Cobalt for example? I cant see many buyers walking away from an Aveo but then rushing to get a G3.
Lexus and Toyota (and Scion) may share many parts,,,,but you often can’t see them, so they appear different cars
As long as products like the G3 help to fuel and pay for development of products like the Solstice and the G8 GXP, I can forgive quite a lot. At least it comes with a manual, which is more than the base G8 can offer currently.
GM seriously, what is the reason for this? Chevy can have little, cheap cars. Pontiac should not by any means. I already have plans to purchase a G8 GT (Thank you HOLDEN!) but seeing one of these in the same showroom with the G8 is unfathomable. When will GM sharpen the focus of their brands to better deliver products to the public that fit brand image.
No offense,
But before I ever read the review, I was like: ” Hey- its a Chevy Aveo with a few cosmetic changes! “So if that’s my initial gut reaction, then that’s what the majority of the car crowd is going to think. I agree with you in that times are a-changin’ and that calls for new products to match demand. That’s why GM made little cars like the Chevy Sprint in the 80’s recession. That’s also why Honda and Nissan makes cars like the Fit and Versa, which is the segment this car belongs to: little metro cars for city drivers.
I agree that the stylistic treatment of this particular version is more attractive than the overly dinky appearance of the Aveo. But let’s not fool ourselves: Its an Aveo with a Pontiac badge. I’m not necessarily trashing it, but there’s no need to defend what it really is.We already know.
This is my first time posting on this forums, and I just had to chime in and co-sign the above comments.
To claim that the G3 falls in line with Pontiac because “its the most fun-to-drive car” in its segment is a fallacy. Its almost frustrating to read this kinda of information. Clearly the Aveo would drive just the same as the G3, who is this guy kidding? From what I see, none of the presented information above indicates that the G3 has a revised suspension for “sporty handling” or any increase in horsepower over is counterpart (aveo). So in synopsis, my first problem here is, you’ve created another copy cat that is bound to live of a life of incentives and fleet (lord knows i don’t even know how the G5 sells, cant wait to see how this goes), and you’re claiming it fits the brand when its clearly a stunt to amortize cost in the increasingly competitive b-segment landscape.
Final comment …. i cant believe GM let someone say, and I quote, “Kinda like saying a Corvette ZR1 and a Yugo are the same thing just because they’ve both got four wheels”. That is the most failed analogy Ive heard in a while. I admit that Vibe is a C-segment hatch and G3 is a B-segment hatch, these are two completely different things. However, the comparison of a historical failure in compact motoring, to arguably the best vehicle that GM makes has no value in this discussion (im not vette aficionado but was there even a 84′ Vette ZR1 ? at least someone was comparing cars under the nameplate haha). No one in their right mind would compare the Vette to a Yugo. A comment like that makes this guy sound really defensive of his decision.. “a-duhh, who wouldN’T think G3 is a good idea”
Not good for the brand. Just kill Pontiac once and for all.
I fail to see through the Toyota/Lexus argument too. Clearly, Toyota and Lexus are targeting different consumer markets. For example, clearly the Lexus ES is a re-engineered Toyota Camry. However, while the ES is marketed as a high-end luxury vehicle targeting 40+ age group with stable, high income salary; the Camry is marketed as a family friendly car targeting the mid-income group.
In the case of the G3 (or Wave in my home country), and the Aveo5, I think they target similar age group, similar income, and even similar personal taste. They are in fact targeting the same market. Perhaps, substantial re-engineering has taken place between both cars, but they are just targeting the same consumer market which does not help other than create confusion amongst GM automobile buyers.
While Honda is coming out with their new Fit this year, Toyota is selling their Yaris like hotcake in recent months due to expensive gas prices, and even Ford is making a lot of noise with their Fiesta which isn’t even suppose to be out until 2010, GM is coming out with such lackluster offering? I am in the market for a new sub-compact car in the next 6 months to a year, however, I am willing to wait for a good sub-compact, pay an extra premium for it, and even delay my purchasing decision if the car seems worthwhile (e.g. Fiesta). Unfortunately, nothing from GM nor Chrysler makes me want to reconsider my car-buying time frame which is quite sad, and it shows me that nothing worthwhile for me from GM is coming out in the near future.
While I applaud GM for their work and effort on the Volt, I think the company is simply neglecting the sub-compact area where most people are spending their money on right NOW.
Also, sub-compact does not equal to cheap and does not have to equal to feel cheap, and the Astra is a good start, but now G3? Please don’t make me feel like I am driving a tin can again when I am driving a GM sub-compact.
I recently bought a 2008 Pontiac Torrent GXP (thanks to the employee pricing) I’ll be honest; if the employee pricing wasn’t available I wouldn’t buy the car. I really enjoy the Torrent’s 3.6 and 6 speed auto, I can’t complain about that. But that car is gone in a couple years. My dad worked for a B-P-G dealer for over 30 years, so I am loyal to GM. I can’t believe the G3 is really coming here, I think it is a huge mistake. Given GM’s history about rebadged vehicles, I think Pontiac is really living a false image. The only vehicles that live up to Pontiac’s slogan are the G8 and Solstice. You can build cars that are good on fuel and look very sporty so do it!!!
The G3 doesn’t fit the bill, it’s not even the most fuel efficient car in its class, and GM should focus on a small car that can be the best in the subcompact category. I don’t know how the Pontiac’s spokesman could have said everything with a straight face; the G3 is laughable for Pontiac. A complete joke, Chevy can keep the Aveo to themselves, give Pontiac something with a more bold styling and throw a turbo under the hood. Wake up GM!!!
The G3 won’t even have the highest EPA rated fuel economy on the Buick-Pontiac-GMC showroom floors. I believe the also rebadged Pontiac G5 XFE can get 3 mpg better on the highway than the smaller G3.
I think that it is a good idea. Yes, it is basically an Aveo, and yes you could go to a Chevy dealership and get one. But what does the BPG dealer do? They don’t want to tell Mr. Customer that the smallest compact we have is the G5 or Vibe, if you want something smaller with better mileage here are directions to the Chevy dealer. They have this car for the same reason there is a Sierra and Silverado, or the Camaro and Firebird. As for the comment abou the Grand Am’s and Sunfires: I see a lot of those around, and I bet the dealers were happy to sell those so called “badge enginerred” vehicles. Once again, good call GM.
For Cadillac the CTS is not a Cimmaron (rebadged Chevy) but this G3 sure looks like a rebadged Aveo to me. This was not a good plan in the past and I hope it’s not going to spead across the division in the future.
As others have said, the issue is calling it a Pontiac.
At one point I believe the publicly stated target for Pontiac was BMW. Are you suggesting this will compete with a Mini Cooper?
No, you probably can’t call it a Buick either, but perhaps you can help the dealers by offering G8’s with manual transmissions in all levels, get the Solstice coupe out pronto, and offer a Buick paying homage to the GS and/or GNX.
You guys @ GM still don’t get it. You’re idiots….just when I start to think….”Okay, they’re figuring it out” something like this comes up…..you’re shoot from the hip rationale(s) are totally laughable…you must really think we’re (the buyers) all idiots…once again, my respect for those running GM goes down the tubes….Pontiac doesn’t need to be in “all” markets!
If they MUST bring this vehicle into Pontiac showrooms, they should just bring in the Geneva ‘08 Chevy Aveo 3-door version with the exhaust and wheels of the Frankfurt 5 door version, that’ll look a lot nicer. =)
Jim Jim Jim…….where to begin?
The G3 IS a re-badged Aveo…..the only difference being the front clip, badging, and red instruments. The interior is not unique or upgraded, the suspension setup isn’t different, you aren’t offering different and sportier engines. It’s the same turd that Chevy sells in a slightly different wrapper. I will give the G3 kudos though for having a better front end than the Chevy. The Aveo just looks awkward.
The G3 will only serve to cannibalize sales of the Vibe. As you say, there is a big difference in size between the Vibe and G3, but the G3 only gets 1 mpg better fuel economy in the city and 2 mpg on the highway versus the 1.8 liter in the Vibe. The only advantage the G3 will have is price being about $1800 less expensive than the Vibe. However, there is very little margin in the G3 so any sales that it steals from the Vibe will actually hurt Pontiac and the BPG dealers.
Finally, let’s talk about image. Pontiac is supposed to stand for the performance and style at an affordable price. The G3 doesn’t fit in with that image at all. It doesn’t really have style (ala MINI Cooper) and it certainly doesn’t perform at or near the top of its class. In fact, on most comparisons of small cars, the Aveo (same thing as the G3) comes in at or near the bottom with Kia, Hyundai, et al. The landscape only gets more challenging when Ford releases the Fiesta, which is a much better looking and higher quality offering than the G3/Aveo. Rather than diluting the brand and hurting the finances of Pontiac dealers, why didn’t you just pass on bringing the G3 to the US??? If you really wanted to be a hero, you should have pushed to have a Pontiac version of the Beat with a sports suspension and a 1.4L turbo motor to give the Honda Fit and maybe even the MINI Cooper a run for its money. Instead, you opted for the old GM way which led to the death of Oldsmobile and the Pontiac Aztek. I hope you’re proud of yourself….
Sincerely,
Nathan Lawless
aka HotCarNut
I have to agree with Fred up there – the dealers are there to move metal, NOT to issue design policy.
Jim,
Sans gauges, grill and badge … the G3 is different from the Aveo how? Could you provide some specific competitors in the segment where the G3 will offer better performance?
Who are you kidding with this DOA offering? In your heart you know this is a bad idea.
Why not give Pontiac the Astra with some ooomph instead? Instead of the anemic motor the Saturn gets, offer the 2.0, and a GXP model with a turbo — it’ll fly off the lots.
I don’t get it. I understand why GM rebadges some cars. If the car is significantly nicer in one guise than another. That said, the G3 seems to be an answer to a question that nobody asked. I still keep hearing people asking why there isn’t a four door G5. Perhaps Pontiac should have addressed that real question before answering the mythical one. Besides, the G5 gets nearly the same mileage as the Aveo/G3 and doesn’t cost much more either.
I find myself agreeing with one comment Fred made above: “Quit catering to the dang dealers! They don’t know what’s best. Never have, never will. ” This is quite true. This is why buyers don’t have a four door G5, why Buick doesn’t have the new Park Ave, and probably won’t get the new Riviera. I’m guessing it’s also why Pontiac is getting the Holden Ute as a G8 variant, rather than Chevy selling it as a new El Camino. GM is very close to doing things better than the others, but questionable decisions like these are part of what’s holding you back. Pontiac needed a car it didn’t get, and instead got a car it didn’t need. I hope you will at least acknowledge this to yourselves and set about correcting this problem.
GM can defend the G3 all it wants, but there is no justification for such a blatant re-badge of GM’s least expensive car, especially branded with as a Pontiac, a brand that stands for affordable performance, sharp and sexy styling. Pontiac’s recent offerings, the G8, Solstice and GXP models have infused the brand with much needed style and performance and have begun the garner the public’s attention and respect. These are the cars that bring people into the showrooms.
Mr. Hopson, you mentioned above:
“The G3 and Aveo share a lot of components, true. But Toyota and Lexus also share components.”
Yes Toyota and Lexus do share components but not to the degree where their cannot be distinguished from one another. The only things that distinguish the G3 from the Aveo is the front bumber (and grille) and the fake side vents, and the Pontiac emblem on the rims, steering wheel, trunk and grille. If I saw the two on the highway, I would immediately think they’re both Aveos, but if I take a closer look and realize one of them is a G3, I will look at in disgust.
I’d like to point out another line you said:
“the best city fuel economy of any vehicle Pontiac offers, and what we expect to be the lowest starting price in the Buick-Pontiac-GMC showroom”
Is it really wise to have a sub 15K car sharing the floor with premium brands? especially one that will not be distinguishable from an Aveo by the average person? The Aveo, I mean G3, is by no means a premium car in any way or form. This will worsen Pontiac’s image as well as GM’s. The public, media and the industry have significantly raised their expectations of GM and have begun to realize that GM is fully capable of building world class cars, SUVs, crossovers and trucks. G3 sinks many of those expectations. The G3 was a very poor, very cheap and short sighted decision made by GM. After this, GM should not complain about the media ruining its image or that people don’t realize the facts about their cars. It is cheap Aveo knock offs that will turn away people from all of GM’s products no matter how good the rest of their offerings are. One cheap move is all it takes to sink GM’s image again. It is much easier to fail than it is to succeed.
“The long and short of it is that only a fool buries his head in the sand when times are changing, and, with one hundred years in the business, we’ve never seen the automotive world change as much as it has in the past 18-months.”
So was GM in a coma or on vacation the last time this country went through a fuel crisis int he 1970’s?
I agree that GM desperately needs more smaller, fuel-efficient cars. To say that this downturn is unprecedented in US history is a fallacy. Even more pathetic is GM’s attempt to once again claim ignorance, just as it did in the last fuel crisis.
Its sad to think that GM could not find anything better to do with those legendary record profits earned off SUVs in the 1990’s than to line their top-level executive’s checking accounts. I wonder where GM’s status in the marketplace would be today if all the excess funds going into executive compensation packages had instead been diverted into product investment.
Jim,
I understand that in this era of high fuel prices that customers are demanding gas-sippers at a never-before-seen level, but the G3 serves is about the worst idea GM could conceive for Pontiac’s current image make-over. The Solstice, the G8, the GTO–those get the heart-pumping and provide concrete evidence that the days of shlock on the Pontiac lots are long gone. Bob Lutz has stated he wants Pontiac to be the affordable alternative to BMW. The G3 does not meet that benchmark.
I opine here with a vested interest: I am a newly converted Pontiac loyalist who comes from a three generation Ford family. In 2006, the G6 GTP won me over. We bought an ‘06 GTO, then traded the G6 in this year for a G8 GT, which has to be one of the best cars on the market today. In a fit of total craziness, we also bought an ‘08 Solstice GXP. I blog about these vehicles at http://theunawriterslair.typepad.com. I’m currently looking for a Firehawk to add to the collection, and am keeping my fingers crossed that GM will reverse itself and produce a new Firebird and Trans Am in the years to come.
Pontiac needs to stay focused on Bob Lutz’s vision for the brand. The G3 is a dangerous distraction that will only cannibalize sales from Chevy, not enhance GM’s overall bottom line or Pontiac’s new image.
John Bruning
Author of
The Devil’s Sandbox: With the 2-162 Infantry at War in Iraq
House to House: A Memoir of War (with SSG David Bellavia)
How to Break a Terrorist (with Matthew Alexander)
Ghost: Confessions of a Counter-Terrorism Agent (with Fred Burton)
Crimson Sky: The Air Battle for Korea
Jungle Ace: Col. Gerald R. Johnson, the USAAF’s Top Fighter Leader of the Pacific War.
Mr. Hopson, you must be seriously deluded if you believe the line of malarky you just posted. I don’t believe any body else will be fooled either. This seriously dilutes the brand image so carefully enhanced by the G8, Solstice, and even the new Matrix. You might as well rebadge a Yugo as a Pontiac.
Jim, Your Lexus/Toyota comment is a joke. What does the G3 offer that the Aveo does not? This is the same mistake as the G5 which offers nothing that the Cobalt does not, and competes (badly) with your own Vibe in the Corolla/Civic/Rabbit segment.
If Pontiac is your excitement division, what more excitement does the G5 offer over the Aveo?
It’s just not necessary.
The reality is that GM needs to bring small efficient cars into the US product mix ASAP. Unfortunately, rushing a vehicle such as the blatantly Aveo-based Wave onto the scene smacks of the old badge engineering days of yore when almost any Pontiac (or Olds, or Buick) was just a Chevy with a revised grille and tail light treatment, and perhaps some minor interior changes. I guess when your economic life is threatened, you use whatever resources you have at your disposal and then wait out the criticism.
Jim, you’ve really got me scratching my head on this one.
Of course Toyota does parts sharing between the Toyota and Lexus brands. But sharing the same parts bin, or even sharing the same platform, doesn’t mean the same thing as just slapping a Lexus badge on a Toyota model. Surely you know that, don’t you?
So I’m looking at a picture of the G3, and I don’t see simple sharing of the parts bin. I see an Aveo with Pontiac badges.
Answer me this, please: what percentage of the parts content of the G3 is different from the Aveo?
Jim, us GM fans understand the problems the company is facing. But that doesn’t excuse lying to us, or worse, treating us like imbeciles.
-Sam
I agree with all commenters that a rebadged Aveo does not fit in with what Pontiac needs to focus on which is building a brand image. Saying a brand is the excitement brand and then putting a new front end on the exact product from the other non-excitement brand does nothing but weaken the image and create competition between two of the exact same product for no reason.
My approach would be different were I in charge with Pontiac/Buick/GMC dealers hounding me for a small car to bring in some sales. Keeping in mind the desire to keep development costs down as much as possible but still deliver I would take an Aveo, make it handle well (springs, shocks, sway bars), improve steering feel if possible, maybe tweak the engine just a little to bump up power just a bit, make the engine just a little louder (maybe different muffler?), make the rear end slightly more aggressive, update the front end to what it is above, and that’s it. then you have the “excitement” version of the Aveo instead of an Aveo with a Pontiac front end. You’d then still keep the brand image, give people a truly different option, and give people a reason to visit the Pontiac/Buick/GMC dealers. Granted development costs would be slightly higher but none of those things are major changes and could attract a whole new crowd. The Aveo could continue to serve as competition to the Fit where the G3 would be able to compete with the Fit Sport.
Please start giving consumers some credit for being intelligent instead of doing another rebadge and trying to pass it off as something different. People know and it doesn’t help anything.
I have always grown up loving Pontiacs, and since becoming a corporate brand in the 80’s, I have still viewed them as being the edgier, more performance oriented vehicles that just don’t the bill as Chevy’s. I know the re-badging has been going on for a LONG time, but at least there were times when you parked two vehicles next to each other and they didn’t look identical. You put a Grand Prix, a Monte Carlo, and Buick Century next to each other, and they don’t look the same, inside or out, yet they were all W-cars. They had different bodies, different dashes and seats, even different shifter locations. Another great example is the Solstice and the Sky. They look similar in their general shape, but one has hard lines and the other doesn’t.
The new G5 as a re-badged Cobalt is already pretty bad, but re-badging of Chevy’s cheapest econo-box crosses be the line in my opinion. I know that fuel economy is a huge deal to a lot of people right now, but I don’t usually associate “the best city fuel economy” with Driving Excitement. I’m not saying that power is the only thing for excitement though. The handling has to be considered as well. Unfortunately, looking at past vehicles that were lower cost from GM, you end up with a rear suspension with that ’semi-solid’ rear axle (a piece of angle iron with holes punched through it), as seen on the Sunfire and Cavalier. And “the best shoulder and hip room in its class” isn’t a big selling point to me either.
I thought recent ideas from GM were not to dilute the brands just to cover gaps in the product line, but have each company focus on certain vehicle types. Pontiac is performance, Cadillac is luxury/luxury performance, Buick is entry level luxury, Chevy is a vehicle to cover every possible market, etc.
And if the G3 is truly going to have a base price around $15,000, I think you need to take a look at the Honda Fit ($14,500) and Fit Sport ($16,000). They have similar fuel economy to the G3, but 10% more horsepower. And the Fit Sport comes pretty well equipped for $16,000, including paddle shifters for the automatic(my buddy’s dad has one). While the Fit is built in Japan, I suspect the G3 will continue to be built in South Korea.
I’m not sure, but I think Abe Lincoln once said, “It’s better to be thought a fool than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt.” This blog entry epitomizes everything that’s wrong with GM. Why? Because it talks down to the public and assumes we are ignorant. Comparing a ZR1 to a Yugo is not like comparing a Vibe and a G3, unless you guys have started making Corvettes in Eastern Europe out of cast iron. And almost everything that a person sees or touches on a Lexus is unique to Lexus, whereas almost everything a person will see or touch on a G3 is identical to an Aveo. You should have kept your mouth shut.
Personally, I’m glad to see GM going in this direction. Several of my friends are looking at the Toyota Yaris and Honda Fit, so it’s good to see other options will be available to them and 27 mpg in the city is a real incentive.
I owned an Aveo for two years and was relieved to get rid of it (got a Cobalt and I am very happy). It was slow, handled poorly, got only 28 MPG highway at best (I drove 65 MPH most of the time), and it had one of the worst manual transmissions that I have ever driven. I also had regular suspension trouble (strut mounts kept working loose and the control arm bushings gave at 20K miles) that left the car at the dealership a lot. I bought the car because of the price. For this reason, I think that adding this car to the Pontiac line is a HORRIBLE idea. Is this the entry level Pontiac that GM wants to attempt to lure new customers with? This car might be worthy of being called a Pontiac if there were some major changes (i.e. replace everything but the floor pan). Think about it, who is going to pay $15K for a rebadged Aveo when they can get a Cobalt XFE for the same price across the street (or an Aveo for ~$10K)? Who came up with this idea?! I cringe when I think about the G3. For a company that is tight on cash, GM sure does a good job of flushing it down the can.
The G# has been the Wave in Canada for the last 4 years don’t try to pass this off as a new car and shared parts give me a break except for the grill the G3 and Aveo are the same car. PS and since we are onto korean cars re import the Optra while your at it. Had a 04 great car forget about trying to pass the Cobalt off as a car.
Pontiac needs a small FWD car but this is basically a rebadged aveo. Why not buy an aveo instead?Pontiac needs to be diffrent than chevy if it is to survive!
I think a cheap general formula for converting a chevrolet into a pontiac (where changing the sheet metal is too expensive) would be more engine power, wider tires, stiffer suspension and small carbon fiber/Aluminum inserts in the interior.
In segments where a pontiac must compete with a Chevy offering, such as G6 vs. Malibu pontiac should go for low slung styling and put higher priority on performance vs. refinement. Of course a minimum level of refinement and practicality is expected of all brands but the focus at Pontiac should be cheapest available performance. Pontiac cars need to be more powerful than their Chevy and Saturn counterparts in the same price range even if the equipment level is lower.
The best for GM was to bring the Chevrolet Matiz from Europe, bust the power and make it a new affordable Pontiac.
I know it made sense from a product perspective at your dealerships but please don’t let this one live very long. Please just keep it as a stop gap measure and put something that allows you to stay with the brand theme in three years or so. Also, I am disappointed to hear you are canceling plans to bring the Orlando to the States. I think this would have worked well for you. I hope you have something else in mind to replace the HHR.
You should not talk down to your consumers this way and like the other poster said, saying nothing is better than a poorly conceived condescending rebuttal that doesn’t hold water in this case.
You re-badged a crappy car by giving it a crappy front end makeover and diluted your brand even more in the process. Pure and simple. Don’t try to make excuses when people call you out on that.
I agree with the folks here who wish GM would stop diluting the image of their brands. Was there no lesson learned from the Cadillac Cimmaron? Buick seems to be coming back online after all of those re-badged things.
Why is there no accountability? Does the person who approved the Aztec still work there? Buyers are much more knowledgeable now with the access afforded by the internet – and they will know the difference.
Nothing wrong with sharing parts – but the analogy is way off. The lambdas are a fine example of how to do it right. This G3 is wrong.
I sure wish there was a new Oldsmobile Cutlass.
Not a good idea here I have to agree…..but we already have an Aveo(I work for a large Chevy dealer as a Parts Manager),we dont need another rebadged car. Don’t you learn?? You give us the Aveo and now this in Pontiac form?? Your just competing against yourselves for no reason! You gave us the Equinox which was a good seller and then a year later out comes the Pontiac Torrent,same car but with an ugly nose. Stop making the same car for different lines. The Aveo is selling good at Chevy right now….why compete and take away potential business from Chevy dealers????
Your headed in the right direction finally…….just not with this decision. And no matter you say…….IT’S AN AVEO!!!
“Different strokes for different folks.”
Which is why Pontiac shouldn’t be selling a rebadged Aveo. (A duck is a duck is a duck.) If they want an Aveo, they can go to a Chevy dealer. Pontiac really should be different then other dealers which means they should have something different from other dealers. Translation: Pontiac should be all RWD! The G3 should be a small RWD, 4 cylinder, hatchback.
If this is the future of Pontiac, just ax the brand and save some money. The Solstice and G8 are the only two cars in the line up that are interesting, and those cars have dumb design decisions that hinder their likeability. (Why is there not an option a 6-speed transmission in the Solstice GXP? Why no manual or DI V6 with the base G8?)
This badge-engineered monstrosity, masquerading as a Pontiac because it is ‘fun to drive when compared to others in its segment’ sounds like the worst kind of plea – a plea to ignore mediocrity.
“Different strokes for different folks.” – Yes, some people like ugly re-badged Daewoos to be sold under what is supposed to be a performance marquee.
Telling us it is all ok because compared to junk it is good, and that ’some people will like it’, does nothing for your brand reputation, or anything for anyone with a brain on their shoulders. Some people would buy a Ferrari minivan that was based on a Ford Econoline (if Ferrari would ever do such a thing) – but of course they wouldn’t, because they maintain brand integrity. Hell, HONDA maintains brand integrity far better than this.
“But Toyota and Lexus share parts!” – Sure. But what separates the two is what they DO NOT share. Comparing that to putting ‘go fast’ looks on a terrible subcompact and claiming that it is ok, because the competition does ’similar’ things, would only fool fools.
The best line was this one though:
“The long and short of it is that only a fool buries his head in the sand when times are changing, and, with one hundred years in the business, we’ve never seen the automotive world change as much as it has in the past 18-months.” – Why yes, it has. So why are you still rebadging terrible cars, and putting them under your performance marquee? To make everyone else who has bought into the Pontiac revival feel bad about their purchase? Because you know what everyone trusts? A brand that sells the customers who step up to buy its best products, downriver. If you were sold on the ‘Pontiac’ image before, you sure as hell aren’t now.
There is no bigger indication of ‘head in the sand’ mentality, than that of those who brought this car to the United States. In a time when other manufacturers are looking to clean and efficient new diesels, better materials, etc., I can’t see how rebadging a Daewoo as a SPORTY vehicle is anything BUT ‘head in the sand’ mentality.
“Pontiac customers, both new and old, are changing their priorities, too, and we want to be there for them with a complete line of sporty alternatives.” – SPORTY. Hum. Let’s take a look at that word. No. There is no reason to. This car fails on all accounts.
I cannot possibly write a long enough diatribe to exclaim how terrible this decision is. This car should be sold under the Chevy brand, and Pontiac should be given a rear wheel drive architecture that is easier to produce than the Kappa (as Kappa II was canceled, last I heard) and could focus on weight, efficiency, and sportiness (something along the lines of what Toyota and Subaru intend to release here in the next few years).
Now GM is making noise about standing in line for its bailout. I feel sorry for all the workers of those plants who will be fired, but I feel worse for every American if we bail out GM at this point. What a terrible state of affairs.
A revolutionary idea would be to give us, under the pontiac name, an advanced turbo 4 with rear wheel drive, like a cross between the Ford ecoboost 4 and a AE86 (something along the lines of what Toyota plans to release, as the rumors go). The Sky could be great, if the ergonomics weren’t terrible. I’d say the cabin was designed by the blind, but that would insult the blind’s sense of direction and space. I got in one, and was instantly uncomfortable, and nothing was in the right place. Great. I’m going to go out on a limb here, and say that GM doesn’t actually build prototypes anymore.
Goddamn it GM, I’m so pissed off at the lack of ‘American ingenuity’ here. What a waste of metal.
Thank God GM doesn’t make decisions based on the wisdom of posters on internet blogs. Finding wisdom here is more difficult by far than finding a needle in a haystack. Guess what folks, nobody is going to force you to buy a G3. This may come as a surprise to many of you but Stupidity is not genetic, and smart ass remarks do not qualify as literature.
Although Toyota and Lexus share components there is enough differentiation to warrant buying a lexus over a Toyota aesthetically. ln this case there is barely any difference whatsoever between an Aveo and the G3.
Mr. Hopson,
You need to step back and ask yourself this basic question: Why does Pontiac need a car like this when General Motors already sells such a car through its Chevy dealers?
The answer is: You don’t. GM is needlessly duplicating and diluting effort that could be better spent elsewhere. If people want a car like this, Pontiac dealers should send them down the street to the nearest Chevrolet dealer to test drive an Aveo.
Why should Chevy and Pontiac be competing with each other to the overall detriment of GM? You guys need to learn to work together.
Boooo!!! If this is all you got Pontiac and GM, please just give up.
pdbw has it exactly correct, if this half-hearted rebadge is insulting to consumers and the auto market as a whole (and so are Jim Hopson’s lame excuses). This isn’t Toyota style platform engineering, this is a lazy response to a whiny, out of touch dealer body. Wastes resources that could have been used to make the Aveo a competitive vehicle.
these two quotes from Jim illustrate why GM is out of touch with customers and the competitive nature of the auto business:
1) “Why re-engineer the wheel unnecessarily?”
I don’t know, because you value your customers and have pride in the product you produce? Because you might actually care to provide a product that means something for the target market you are professing to covet? Because you finally realize that the American public is not blatantly stupid, and we demand competitively powered, styled, handling and priced vehicles, that drive, handle well and are efficient? Because you realize that if you announce such an abomination that you will then have to write ridiculous PR excuses and apologies like this? Because you realize that if you do another rebadge job like this that it will be another 10 years of image rebuilding and apologizing to the public for “the sins of the past.” (GM Facts and Fiction, my foot)
2) “The G3 is a great little car, pure and simple, … Is it perfect? Heck, no, but that’s why your feedback here and in other forums is so important.”
Well, if this car isn’t perfect, THEN DON’T PRODUCE IT!!! don’t market it!! don’t ship it!!! If you admit that the G3 is sub-par, then don’t expect customers to be dumb enough to spend their hard earned money on it. You have the power to correct this abomination before it arrives on our shores! Many other cars on the market, in this category and many others (even some made by GM) are nearly perfect and win customers on merit. Honda Fit, Corvette (all flavors base to ZR1), new CTS, new Malibu, Buick Enclave, Toyota Prius, BMW 3series. Jeez, can’t you learn from your successes? If you aren’t going to even try to win, why play? It is not about moving metal anymore, it is about keeping the company alive. Destroying brand equity in the name of volume was, is and will forever be, a counterproductive game that takes years to correct (hello, GM in the 1980s, anyone???).
Do us a favor and save the cash from building, shipping and marketing these crudmobiles and instead invest it in a plan deliver that hot Chevy MPV7 (Orlando) that you so cruelly yanked away from us after tantalizing all the GM fans on the web. You guys are teases, first the Gamma triplets are shown and killed for US sale, then the Orlando is dangled and yanked away (hordes of young suburban families salivate and then are denied, thanks).
If you really are looking to get credibility behind the decision to bring the G3 to the US (or at least some street cred) – you’d better post some vids on YouTube of the G3 outrunning a Fit on the Nordschleife. Otherwise, noone would take the “performance” of this Aveo clone seriously.
Yes, it would take some effort (like Jared mentioned above), but would at least raise some eyebrows in surprise, rather than laughter and scorn.
Since we are back to rebadging cars can we (Pontiac fans) have our Trans Am back! I just cant lay the dough down for a Camaro. I drive Pontiacs!
Sorry, this is a bit of long one, but at least it’s an easy read. I’ll do my best to address each of your arguments:
-”The G3 is for fuel economy.”
Then why not offer a G5 sedan? The G3 gets 27/34 vs. the XFE’s 25/37, both offer a combined 30 mpg (manual).
GM also reports to CAFE as a combined entity, not separately as Pontiac, Chevrolet, etc. So, how would selling Aveos not satisfy this need for both customers and CAFE averages?
-”There is a void in the current lineup that the G3 fills.”
Really? If your sports car brand requires the slowest, cheapest car you make, then why not all the others? Cadillac doesn’t have one. Hummer doesn’t either. Are those also considered voids? You don’t see BMW, Infinity, Acura, or even Mazda selling econoboxes here. Isn’t that the point of having separate brands, so that each channel can cater to a specific market? If so, the polar opposite G8 and G3 only create brand confusion.
Are people really unwilling to walk across the street from BPG to the Chevy dealer to buy what anyone can easily see is the same car? Furthermore, by dividing sales between the Aveo and G3, this both hurts reported sales volumes (for titles like “best selling sub-compact in America” etc.) and perceived popularity, which cars like the Civic, Corolla, Camry, and Accord all thrive on. Because those cars sell in such great volume, people feel safe and not risky buying under the exact same name. This creates word-of-mouth advertising by flooding the market with volume and even crosses over to new models under the same name.
When BMW decided to market one, they actually created a unique class-leader for minicompact FWD handling and wisely marketed it under a different brand called Mini. As such, they have been hugely successful without diluting the BMW brand.
-”The G3 and Aveo share a lot of components, true. But Toyota and Lexus also share components. Why re-engineer the wheel unnecessarily?”
Show me one Toyota/Lexus product that share every body panel, headlights, taillights, interior, everything except for badging, the front bumper/grill, wheels, gauges and very minor trim. This is called rebadging, plain and simple, just like the G5, and it was something GM said it was NOT going to do anymore. Even the rest of the American brands are scaling back on the practice. Besides, to reuse an old adage, if Toyota/Lexus jumped off a bridge, would GM follow?
Rebadging hurts brand identity, and creates redundant product. It may sell a few cars in the short term for very little investment, but in the long run it simply shows a lack of focus and dedication to brands and will only harm Pontiac’s reputation. The slow sales of the G8 are due to the unfortunate timing of the release of a large, heavy, V8 car with high fuel prices (and no manual) COMBINED with years of selling minivans, Azteks, anemic Torrent SUVs, hatchback Toyotas as Vibes, and endless FWD models that were billed as performance cars, but in fact were merely utilitarian. The public does not like being deceived like this, and now Pontiac has a long way to go to regain our trust for good cars like the G8, a trust delicately cultivated by brands like BMW and Infiniti. Telling people the G3 is sporty will not help that cause.
Really, to justify this model, redoing the suspension to handle better, providing a more powerful performance engine option, and redesigning the exterior and interior to look like something fun and cool (Mini or the Fiat 500 are great examples) rather than utilitarian would be the way to go.
-”The G3 is about 16-inches shorter than the Vibe, so, while they are both five-doors, they are in two different classes. Kinda like saying a Corvette ZR1 and a Yugo are the same thing just because they’ve both got four wheels.”
Yes, the G3 and Vibe ARE unique cars in that they are different sizes classes of the same configuration (5 door, 5 seat, FWD, 4-cylinder, economy, hatchbacks). There is no reason they cannot happily coexist on the same sales lot. You are correct in that they are no more redundant than a Cobalt sedan and a Malibu are. However a ZR1 and a Yugo are a bit farther apart.
Saturn has always been GM’s import fighter with a bit of Japanese/European influence. While Chevy sells configurations more popular in the US like sedans and coupes, Saturn is brave enough to offer the quad-coupe, and now the hatchback Astra. The Vue was also the first GM competitor for the Japanese cute-ute. At this time, cars like the subcompact Aveo and larger Vibe would be a perfect fit for their lineup. The volume aspect of their sales would also work for Chevrolet. The next generation HHR, Astra 5 door, and Vibe should really be combined off of Delta II with GM’s newest Ecotecs, as the Vibe is already less powerful and less fuel efficient than what GM is capable of. Just build it here in the US and sell it through Saturn and Chevy. Pontiac should, at most, offer a Mini Cooper competitor–but one that is truly unique, class leading in handling, and with an optional, more powerful engine. Pontiac is your sports car brand, don’t squander that.
-”How can the G3 possibly be a Pontiac? Because it’s sporty and fun-to-drive when compared to many of the cars in its segment. True, it’s not a RWD V8, but that’s why the G8 is sitting in the same showroom. Different strokes for different folks.”
I believe I covered most of this above, so I’ll try not to repeat myself. Other than SUVs, trucks, and most crossovers, I can’t think of anything that handles worse than a subcompact tuned for ride and economy using narrow all-season tires and a compliant suspension. It’s also the slowest due to having the least horsepower of anything GM builds. Neither of those qualities equal sporty. Not only that, but even the lowly Honda Fit is worlds more sporty than the Aveo/G3.
Not all Pontiacs have to be RWD V8s! We understand. But why is it all-or-nothing? Throwing a couple of Asian hatchbacks and various crossovers, minivans, and SUVs at the brand just because you don’t know where else to put them are hardly a better alternative.
I will admit that Pontiacs don’t have to all be V8 if you will admit that RWD does not equal poor fuel economy. RWD makes packaging a bit tighter (yet BMW seems to do pretty well) but at most draws a fraction of a mpg in extra friction. AWD (which you offer on many more vehicles) and weight hurt MPG far more. The answer is to build an Alpha Pontiac, and an even smaller compact RWD Pontiac sedan & coupe to share with the next Solstice Kappa II platform. You have FWD covered at Chevy, Saturn, Buick, and Saab. Time to offer some RWD outside of Cadillac’s luxury market. Best of all, it can still be done with Ecotec engines and fuel economy by keeping the weight down and the platform light. The Hyundai Genesis Coupe, Subaru RWD coupe, Toyota RWD coupe, will all be coming soon using RWD and 4 cylinder power in addition to cars like the Miata and Mustang which already offer affordable RWD performance. Don’t be late to the small, affordable, RWD game when you have a brand tailor-made for the job!
As for the “Different strokes for different folks” comment. This is what the unique brands are for. Otherwise you might as well sell any-and-every vehicle through any-and-all channels and just claim “Different strokes for different folks.” when people don’t understand. There is a range that each brand can cover, but the G8 and G3 are really too different for such a small lineup. Only Chevy has one large enough to pull off that scope, and there, only because the Vette is a halo vehicle. Everything else Chevy is wholesome transportation.
-”…only a fool buries his head in the sand when times are changing, and, with one hundred years in the business, we’ve never seen the automotive world change as much as it has in the past 18-months. Pontiac customers, both new and old, are changing their priorities, too, and we want to be there for them with a complete line of sporty alternatives.”
Chevy is there for the people that want to change from buying sporty cars to econoboxes. That’s the whole point of the Aveo’s existence. I say to you, don’t bury your head in the sand and think that all RWD cars will die simply because fuel economy is paramount. RWD and fuel economy are NOT mutually exclusive! Do you think that BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, and Infiniti will all go bankrupt or start exclusively building FWD econoboxes? No! Of course not! People still want RWD and they can have it be fuel efficient and zippy with the right size package and a small engine. Please, don’t relive the 1980s all over again by making all your brands FWD. This lost GM the luxury market for decades, as well as most of the performance market. It doesn’t have to be all-or-nothing.
-”Change and growth are never easy, but knowing that we’re all in it together makes its possible.”
No, we are not in this together. By killing off Solstice/Sky Kappa, Firebird/Trans Am, GTO, Alpha Pontiac (probably), G8 wagon, G8 coupe, and claiming Pontiac as another FWD entry-level hatch brand, you are alienating your loyal Pontiac fans. Fans who have been waiting for a long time while Cadillac was renewed with the Northstar and Sigma platforms, Saturn was invented, given unique hardware, redone off shared platforms, and then reinvented with premium Opel/Vauxhall models, Hummer was turned into a 3 model civilian brand, the SUV boom saw GM invest primarily in large SUVs and then crossovers ahead of everything else, and now Saab is finally getting the attention they deserve and China is helping to rescue Buick. The Zeta platform is there (Camaro is here), Alpha is coming, and Kappa can be redone. For less than the cost of creating unique models, Pontiac could sell 3 sizes of RWD sedan featuring coupe variants, with moderate investment. Sure, it costs more than slapping nostrils on a Chevy, but in the long run, it will be a wiser business decision than throwing away the unique Pontiac brand.
Jim,
Toyota and Lexus share parts but they have enough differentiation between them so a Toyota and a Lexus feel like fundamentally different vehicles. They have different engine tuning, different suspension tuning, different sheet metal, and different interiors. If the G3 had a sportier suspension as compared to the Aveo, a different engine, and different looks inside and out, then it might be a worthy addition to the GM fleet. Of course, I’m sure you knew that — and while the buying public may be ignorant to a certain degree, even they won’t be fooled by this.
Seriously. There’s nothing sporty about this. This only serves to dilute Pontiac’s brand image. It’s an obvious stepchild to the new CAFE regulations. Stop with the stopgaps already, because the only way GM can survive is to start rebuilding its brand equity.
People buy a BMW to own a BMW. They don’t have an economy car like this. They don’t even have a parent company to buffer them from CAFE. They weather a weak dollar, and they are rewarded for their efforts. That is what Pontiac needs to do. Stick to your guns, offer only a few truly sporty cars for a few product lifecycles, and I think you’d find people really attribute Pontiac to performance and would pay a premium to own one.
Obviously GM is in financial trouble right now, the dollar hurts imports, and everything must be done that is possible to keep the company afloat. But this is a short sighted move.
Worst. Post. Ever.
“Isn’t the G3 just a re-badged Chevy Aveo? The G3 and Aveo share a lot of components, true. But Toyota and Lexus also share components. Why re-engineer the wheel unnecessarily?”
It isn’t unnecessary to engineer a small car with Pontiac-level performance. It IS unnecessary, however, to sell a Chevy under the Pontiac name.
I know things are tight over at GM, but you’re never gonna get out of the mess you’re in by continuing to hit sales goals at the expense of damaging your brands.
Go ahead and sell Chevy Aveos at Pontiac/GMC/Buick dealers. It will be easier to explain why a Chevy is on the lot (”It’s here if you want it”) than explaining why a car with the Pontiac name on it can’t make it to 60 mph in under 10 seconds (” uhh…we needed a cheap car to sell at the Pontiac/GMC/Buick dealers, so we decided that although it doesn’t strictly make sense to sell a Pontiac with such mediocre performance, it made more sense to sell it under the Pontiac name than to sell it as a Buick or GMC.”)
Jim,
You stated “Isn’t the G3 just a re-badged Chevy Aveo? The G3 and Aveo share a lot of components, true. But Toyota and Lexus also share components. Why re-engineer the wheel unnecessarily”
Toyota disguises their Lexus counterparts inperceptively. A Highlander and RX 350 are essentially the same, yes. But you wouldn’t know it by looking at them.
The Aveo and G3 have only bumpers, headlights, grilles, and taillamps to differentiate them.
So, no, your point on that is not only not taken, it is incorrect and a poor analogy.
The G3 is a horrible decision by GM. Pontiac might as well pack up and go home if this is what its comming to.
The problem here is that GM tries to sell more of the same by badge engineering, instead of selling that same amount of just one badge. It gets old, kills division identity, and just drives more customers away.
Its about time GM consolidate and/or eliminate divisions down to just Chevy and Cadillac. Everything currently sold in General Motors staple can be divided into those two nameplates.
Pontiac is dead at this point. Besides, with the return of the Camaro, who has a desire for a G8?
“The long and short of it is that only a fool buries his head in the sand when times are changing, and, with one hundred years in the business, we’ve never seen the automotive world change as much as it has in the past 18-months.”
So the answer is… rebadge another vehicle and make the same mistake you’ve been making for the past 30-40 years. Pathetic brand management. The reason GM has gone from 50% market share to 20%. Who’s got their head in the sand on this one? You’re right. The fools!!!
I stopped reading when you said
” Isn’t the G3 just a re-badged Chevy Aveo? …… But Toyota and Lexus also share components. Why re-engineer the wheel unnecessarily”
really? is that the best thing you could come up with???
hey why not make one of these for Cadillacs to… why re-engineer the wheel unnecessarily…
please don’t insult peoples intelligence. thank you..
toyota and lexus might share components and the same platform but they do enough differentiation that the brand image isn’t completely disregarded or destroyed
way to kill the brand! stop trying to re badge every vechicle for every brand. didn’t you guys learn this with the minivan??
I have a really hard time believing that when Pontiac dealers were clamoring for a small car that this is what they had in mind. I really thought things were changing at GM, but Jim has proven me wrong. This post has proven that GM has nothing but contempt for the American public.
What Pontiac’s brand managers desperately need to understand is this: every time you approve a budget badge-job like the G3, you offset one of your genuine attempts to knock one out of the park–like the Solstice or G8. You can’t simply expect the public to “pay no attention to the cars behind the curtain.” If your product mix is still half second-rate filler, brand perception is not going to change.
Moreover, the subcompact segment has changed. It’s trendy. Savvier buyers are shopping the class. These aren’t people who’ll buy the above “Lexus = Toyota” defense (try telling them that a Highlander and an RX 350 are as much “the same car” as a G3 and Aveo. They’re not stupid). And they’ll shop around enough to know that the Aveo/G3 is most definitely not one of the more refined or dynamically competent cars in its class, at which point they’ll feel insulted by Pontiac marketing.
I’ve wanted to believe that GM learned its lesson about chasing short-term sales at the expense of long-term brand viability, and is committed to Pontiac’s “turnaround.” I’d like to write off the G3 as the result of short-sighted Buick/Pontiac/GMC dealers exerting pressure on management. But this car follows the same formula that produced the Sunfire, and the Le Mans, and the T1000 before it.
Jim,
Since we are “shooting from the hip”
Get REAL! The G3 is a rebadged Daewoo!!!!
Come on! Who are you kidding??
The Pontiac brand was badly damaged the last time a Daewoo was badged as a fake Pontiac (remember the LeMans??)
Seriously – you guys just don’t get it!!
This car is going to cheapen the Pontiac brand even more!
But worse than the G3 is the way you try to spin this story – what makes this car a Pontiac and not a Chevy or a Daewoo? NOTHING except the badge and the color of the gauges.
This car is FAKE. A real Pontiac is NOT fake! Shame on you GM!
I was also going to comment that the G3 is a bad idea, but I changed my mind. Continuing to pretend that Pontiac should even exist anymore is a bad idea. The G3 is just another example of how disconnected today’s Pontiacs are from legendary Pontiacs like the GTO. The damage is done. It is time to just retire the brand.
Pontiac has been the auto industry’s poseur brand for at least 20 years. The reality never did agree with advertising’s claim: “We build excitement!” There was nothing exciting about all the brand-gineered Chevys or the few unique Pontiacs, unless you count the ridiculous plastic bits tacked on the outside or the illegible red gages inside. Sure there were exceptions — like the Fiero and Soltice. But for every truly exciting car like the G8 there is a forgettable G6. And a G5. And now a G3.
Pontiac is now just a money pit for GM. Exercises like this do nothing to revive Pontiac and divert resources from things that could actually add value to GM’s cars. Instead of spending money to Pontiac-ize the Aveo and paying Mr. Hopson here to justify it, GM should have made real improvements to the Aveo to better compete with the class-leading Honda Fit. Just imagine how much better all Chevys could be if the Chevy team got the money that is wasted on Pontiac.
The Pontiac G3 is a very short-sighted decision indeed. Pontiac already sells a couple of rebadged small cars (Vibe, G4). Others here are correct to note that this will do little more than dilute the brand into a Chevrolet with different badging. It seems to me the better strategy would have been to spend the money on refining the Aveo so it will better compete with the ‘09 Fit and ‘10 Fiesta. Sometimes I have high hopes for GM as I consider the many right decisions and good products that have recently been launched, and sometimes I wonder where Bob Lutz is when people decide a product that is selling well for one brand must somehow be proliferated throughout the GM family.
Uh, the Toyota-Lexus comparisoin is idiotic. You are just trying to justify your badge engineering. Look at Yaris 5-dr and Scion xD. Same platform, yes. Same body-style, yes. But completely different looks. The Aveo and G3 resemble each other way too much.
Besides, what is the purpose of Pontiac? To compete wiht Chevrolet? The G3 & Aveo are competitors. So are G5 & Cobalt coupe. So are G6 & Malibu. What’s so special and different about the Pontiac offereings over Chevy offerings? Don’t say ’sport,’ because we all know that’s a lie.
GM, when are you going to learn to STOP BADGE ENGINEERING?
As has been posted previously, this G3 is clearly a re-badged Aveo. This is immediately evident. The sad thing is, the Aveo isn’t even a segment leader. The Vibe is a re-badged Matrix, but at least the Matrix is a decent car to start with. If ‘G3′ were a re-badged Honda Fit, Pontiac would have a decent offering. GM has always done a bad job of re-badging – especially during the 80’s. Too bad they didn’t review their own history. Remember the ‘Cadillac’ Cimeron? And remember the fate of poor Oldsmobile? I thought GM should have dumped Pontiac – the division that associates plastic body cladding and fake hood scoops with excitement.
I have owned GM stock for many years and sold it all this year. I also have plenty of GM Master Card credits good for the purchase of a new GM car, but I recently bought a Toyota. I’ve offered the credits to friends and family and there are no takers. I wish the American car industry the best of luck, but I won’t be investing in these companies and won’t be buying any of the current crop of products.
Taking a page from Mr. Lutz I am going to blunt; while it may annoy you, it is my current opinion.
Even Harley Earl’s babies were part badge engineering…but this post prompts me to ask a question. Who is going to take the G8 serious with the ST and more importantly the G3 in the same showroom?
I am twenty-five and have had three Pontiac vehicles since I received my license, and I am a GM investor; albeit quite small as my oil stocks are… well you know. At the rate Pontiac is going, my 04 GTO may very well be my last! Announcing this product two days after the electric Volt, and with LESS HP, under the performance brand is one lousy way to start the next century. While the GTO clearly indicates that this is not my ideal product, God forbid anything happen to my GTO, I would most likely be forced to a smaller product due to insurance, and GMAC was never any help there. Obviously I am not opposed to simple badge jobs when done semi-appropriately (GTO). Therefore, in that theoretical instance, I would gladly handle a rebadged of a product such as the Holden/Opel/Vauxhall Corsa. Unlike the Aveo, which screams dated, the Corsa exudes a REAL Sporty/Stylish and fresh look.
With GM’s cash being short, this is especially a time for GM to spend its money wisely as opposed to making idiotic use of funds to save a few bucks in the short term and further “damaging” the brand. While I am sure Chevy cannot justify the premium the Corsa would require, a German engineered Pontiac setting next to a traditional BMW looking, and media compared G8 surely would. That Mr. Hopson is the way to make yourself and GM look credible in the eyes of the consumer and the investor; not the BS above!
Jim –
I’d say there’s still a hole in your lineup as far as small sporting cars go. This g3 is not sporty, is not fuel efficient, and is not as exciting at its competition. I’ll be plesantly surprised if it is fun to drive, but based on my drive of the Aveo last year, I’m not holding my breath.
Incidentally – pontiac.com did not have any information on the upcoming G3 as you indicated.
The more I think about the G3, the more it overshadows all of GM’s recent successes. Look at Ford, Chrysler and GM, they’ve lost so much market share and sales over the years due to poor decision making, brand mismanagement and disgruntled customers. With the exception Chrysler, GM and Ford have been making some of their best cars, trucks and SUV’s in years and they’re still struggling to regain sales and the public’s trust and respect, while their competition have been recording record sales and profits, and their customers are generally satisfied as ever. This goes to show that customers also look at how car companies are managed, whether they are profitable, whether they can sustain themselves in the future with no difficulty. The success of the competition clearly shows that customers would rather buy a good car from well respected and sustainable company than a great car from a company that has a history of mismanagement and financial losses. GM cannot afford to have another image depleting machine, and it certainly does not need any more disgruntle customers.
NIce job GM. The G3 gives entry level car buyers and fuel ecomony focused drivers another option versus the Yaris, Fit, and others. If this car is priced anywhere near the Aveo, they should sell well of the lots. As for all the GM bashing that I read, What a joke. GM has been part of the backbone of the automotive industry, U.S. economy, and the country for over 100 years It gets old reading all the negative comments from these critics. It’s sad to see people make such stupid comments.
Badge engineering is alive and well at General Motors. This G3 is a total joke, are you guys that short on cash? Lutz and company are running Pontiac right into the ground. First the alphabet soup, then the sport truck and now this. Hardly what I would call Pontiac Excitement. You guys dont have a clue what a Pontiac buyer wants!
Maybe someday you will actually listen to your customers rather than push the wrong product in the wrong channel. If you guys were serious about a small sporty Pontiac, you would bring back the Fiero. It would give the near empty Wilmington plant something else to build.
I’m not as opposed to this little car coming to Pontiac dealers as some. I’m sure the dealers want / need anything they can sell right now. For many years Pontiacs and Chevy’s have been more similar than different, but if you brought over the 3 door Kalos as a G3 that would at least be a little more of a point of difference. Like the G5 is only sold in coupe version, not a 4 door like Cobalt. Generally 2 door cars can be cleaner and are often “sportier” in style than their 4 door bretheren. In manufacturing there is an economy of scale. If it helps keep the Kalos factory busy then maybe GM can make a some profit of selling these. I’ve never like the 68 Buick rear fender line of the 5 door Aveo or the dogleg in the C pillar window that does nothing but make visbility worse. The 3 door, on the, the other hand is a pretty nice. With that body and a better engine, G3 could be a believable, though obviously junior Pontiac.
What can I say that hasn’t already been said, except that this has me seriously reconsidering my planned purchase of a G8. If that doesn’t open your eyes GM, nothing will.
Jim,
This is by far the most negative reaction to any article ever posted on the fastlane blog.
What a sad day for GM.
The G3 is a horrible decision. Who made it?
They should loose their job – not the thousands of GM employees who will end up loosing their jobs due to Pontiac’s demise.
Please read these replies over and over until you understand every sentiment.
These are your passionate customers, they took the time to write those responses…it’s the least you can do.
Then, ensure the decision makers at GM see every single comment here. Cancel the G3.
And finally – respond to these comments by creating genuine Pontiacs that these customers have asked for.
Are you F’ing serious, how is this thing going to wear a Pontiac badge? Pontiacs are for people who have more money then a Chevrolet owner, why can’t Pontiac just be a sporty company? G6 is ok, G8 is great, Solstice is great, even the Vibe and G5 are ok, but this junk! We own a 2007 G6 that was bought new less then a year ago, and as Pontiac owners I view this as the Lemans all over again. Why not just call it the Lemans II and give it one of those great 80’s interiors you were finally getting away from! Whats next , another Chevette?
I sure do wish GM would spend it’s ad dollars more evenly across the divisions. We don’t see a dang thing about the G8, and that is an awesome car. It should and could be selling more, but nobody knows about it!
Also, this G3 thing is a mistake. GM needs to go to an all brands under one roof strategy and have the brands niched to their marketing specialties. What’s next? A Pontiac version of the Outlook/Acadia/Enclave/and now Traverse! That was a good seller Saturn/GMC/Buick, now Chevy is going to cannibalize those sales.
I thought things were starting to come together. Setting value prices to get away from these fire sale rebates (employee pricing for instance), reducing sales to fleets, giving brands specific identities, etc. It’s all starting to unravel! Let’s pull it together here.
JD said “GM has been part of the backbone of the automotive industry, U.S. economy, and the country for over 100 years It gets old reading all the negative comments from these critics. It’s sad to see people make such stupid comments”
JD – I think you’ll find that all the “negative comments” you refer to are actually being made by passionate fans of General Motors.
Their comments are not stupid – all they are asking for is that Pontiac that remains true to itself and doesn’t indulge in brand damaging acts for short term gains.
GM and Pontiac have a long and great history – we just don’t wanna see it all thrown away for a cheap short term profit grab.
With it’s “smile” front grill opening, it looks like the G3 is a good friend of Lightning McQueen.
Now, I believe Jim was trying to put the best spin on an impossible assignment given to him by someone who should know better. Jim wasn’t the one who made this incredibly stupid decision. Some overpaid moron above him did. Jim has just become the scapegoat.
You can polish this turd all you want but it’s still a turd. The Aveo/Kalos was never competitive with the Fit/Jazz even though it was introduced 2 years after the Honda. Now there’s an all-new 2009 Fit and GM responds by offering yet version of the Aveo?
Honda is a much smaller company and sells fewer Fit/Jazz globally than GM does with the Aveo/Kalos/G3. If a smaller company can design a better car, have similar or higher manufacturing costs, yet sell it for cheaper and sell it at a profit, what is GM’s excuse?
You’ve got to be kidding, right? Look, its an Aveo, built by Daewoo. A little bit of straight forward talk goes a long way and you are not fooling any good old car enthusiasts, shuffling words around to make your own truth will only turn away customers.
The Chevy Aveo is a piece of junk, consumer satisfaction is very low on this car. With only a 1.6L / 106 hp, it barely gets out of its own shadow, weighed down by such a heavy little car. Lets also talk about that it’s a Daewoo engine complete with short-term tune-up intervals and a rubber timing belt, nuff said for actually saving any money on cost of ownership. The crash ratings are 5 star, but the handling is reminscint of a GEO metro making this not a fun car to drive on truck filled highways. GM, get back to building cars, leave your Daewoo division to Suzuki. Pontiac is being punished enough.
Do you guys at GM read these posts? If you did perhaps you would have a clue.
Hence, why you will likely never persuade me to purchase a Pontiac product in my lifetime. What you may not realize is that import buyers who might consider a better GM car such as a Volt, CTS, or G8 are going to be put-off by cynical marketing efforts regarding lesser products in the brand-sphere. Call it a reverse halo effect, if you will.
Lexus/Toyota/Scion are careful to not make mistakes which can shift the entire corporate perception. You would be wise to stop serving the lowest common denominator with rash moves to placate your Byzantine dealer body.
If Pontiac dealers really need a small car to add to their sales profile, why doesn’t GM let them sell one of the “Triplets” GM HQ touted with so much publicity about 18 months ago?
Oh wait, I forgot, The “Triplets” were not designed to meet U.S. specs. (Has anyone at GM HQ tracked down the person that person that made that decision and shown him/her to the door?)
The name G3 is in perfect line with the rest of Pontiac products, continue to built the image of Pontiac, this will fit well with G5, G6, G8,…..and hopefully more, more in the lines of A3, A4, A6, A8, or even 325, 335, series, quick and eash ID by the public.
As you can see by the comments, you need to improve on the G3 ASAP, do not eliminate it but constatatly improve.
In todays small market every one is looking for MPG, and to me the G3 is in direct competation with Toyota Yaris, the Yaris MPG is 29/35, slightly better then G3 at 27/34.
These are your targets to improve on, make it one car with all the bells, make it solid, easy on the cheap plastics. Forget all the options, give the car a one image.
“Isn’t the G3 just a re-badged Chevy Aveo?”
So what…? Just think of the VW Polo and Audi 50 in the seventies or later the VW Sharan and Seat Alhambra. Not to forget an earlier Ford Fiesta and the Mazda 121. What about the Dodge Neon, which used to be sold as a Chrysler Neon in Europe? EVERY manufacturer does things like that. No need to complain about GM’s decision.
In theory, I question the decision to slap a new front fascia on the Aveo (actually, it’s just a grille insert away from the Holden Barina), a new gauge cluster, and sprinkle a few arrowheads on the exterior/interior to make the Aveo5 a Pontiac G3. However, it does look different from the front. And the additional standard features help.
I can’t help but wonder, though, if Pontiac shouldn’t do more to the G3…like adding a turbocharged or DI model (we know the new Ecotec can handle it) with sport seats, an upgraded suspension, and 16 or 17″ wheels. If Pontiac MUST have a subcompact, and if it CAN’T be a reworked Opel/Vauxhall Corsa, then I guess this is the only other solution.
I can’t help but feel like this is a redux of the 1988-93 Pontiac LeMans (subcompact Daewoo-engineered rebadge), or the 1981-87 Pontiac T1000/1000, (just a grille change and taillight lenses away from the Chevette), or the 1975-77 Pontiac Astre (a Vega in Pontiace makeup). And that’s what makes me question this strategy.
However, I do submit that the Aveo5 is a MUCH better car to base a rebadge off of than the Vega or the Kadett-based Chevette or the subsequent Kadett-based Daewoo LeMans/Cielo were. You just need to do more to differentiate the two: by adding a true performance G3 model.
I’ve been looking for a subcompact car to replace my aging Saab, and the 2009 Aveo5 seems to have the best combination of price, features, styling, space, economy, and interior quality of anything in its class. I was going to wait a few months until I had a little more saved up before going in on one. And I have more of an excuse to now that Pontiac’s releasing its version (the styling differences are a wash to me…I like them both). It all depends on how the options and features work out for the money.
I’d like to get the Pontiac because I assume there will be fewer around (due to Chevy’s bigger dealer network and probably more frequent advertizing), so it’ll have a uniqueness factor, along with the fact that I want to help support GM’s continuation of the Buick, Pontiac, and GMC brands by buying one.
Steve- Why the heck would the release of the G3 have anything to do with your decision to purchase a G8? Do you think a Corvette buyer cares that there’s an Aveo?
As for the rebadging, the Daewoo Kalos is already marketed in dozens of countries under a number of nameplates. It’s a popular platform internationally, especially now with the shift towards more fuel efficient and overall low cost of ownership vehicles.
GM made the decision to start combining their brands at the dealership level to “BPG” (Buick, Pontiac, GMC) under one roof. I see this move simply to fill that gap for this segment, and they sure as heck aren’t going to rebadge it as a Buick. So, its Pontiac. What’s the big deal? It’ll tarnish the Pontiac brand? They already had the Aztek and the Montana, gang.
Love the G3. Embrace it.
Lest people forget, Pontiac was always only one step above Chevy in the GM hierarchy anyway, under Olds and Buick. The is only Pontiac models being sold that are not a rebadge of another predessor vehicle are the G6 (which will now become a rebadged Malibu from best estimates – not teh other way around) and the Solstice, which people tend to forget came before the Saturn Sky and Opel GT. Even the G8 is only a rebadged Holden. As such, even the new Camaro is simply a rebadged, chopped and channeled 2-door G8. The last truly unique Pontiac was the Aztek, before that, Fiero. No other Pontiac in modern times did not share something major with another GM vehicle; definition of re-badge.
Such venom as shown in this thread would be as vile and intense from the Chevy camp if GM were to offer a Firebird. The challenge to GM and Pontiac is not how to graciously kill teh G3 program – but how to offer up someting in the way of performance upgrades over the Aveo that truly makes this car a Pontiac. 16″ wheels, F3 suspension, larger brakes, and a neat little turbo version to throw 145 hp or so into the mix. Take on the Mini at its own game.
I think chiefpontiac doesn’t know the difference between platform sharing and rebadging.
The Aztek was based on the minivan platform, and the Buick Rendezvous was exactly the same, just with different interior and exterior styling. It isn’t a rebadge, it’s just a platform mate to the minivans and the Rendezvous. The Camaro isn’t a Commodore rebadge, either. It’s just based on the same basic platform (and highly modified at that). Almost nothing interchanges between a G8 and a Camaro except the engines.
The G8 would be a rebadge. It’s got the same exact body panels, except for the front clip and taillight lenses. So would the Torrent, G5, and G3.
The Vibe, G6, and Solstice are not rebadges, but they do ride on the same platforms as the Toyota Corolla/Matrix, the Chevy Malibu/Saab 9-3/Saturn Aura, and the Saturn Sky, respectively.
That said, GM did need to give BPG dealers a small car to sell. I just with they would have done more to the G3 to differentiate it from the Aveo5…like an upgraded suspension, different wheels, different taillights/rear bumper/tailgate trim…and offer a GTP or GXP trim line with a turbo or DI 1.6L/6-speed manual.
But that’s just me. As it stands now, I like both the Aveo5 and the G3. Enthusiasts may balk at the G3 (as they should), and GM should do something about that. But GM needs a small Pontiac now, and it was much more expedient to get this to market, than, say, rebadging the Opel/Vauxhall Corsa, getting it certified for the US, and importing it here from Europe.
GM: Please release a G3 with more performance credentials. Otherwise, you’ll lose the enthusiasts you’re legitimately trying to attract.
As a young driver, who’s looking for a car that is both functional, frugal, fashionable, and fun-to-drive, the G3 looks like a great choice. I know the Aveo is very similar, however, I think the Pontiac looks better. Also, I prefer Pontiacs over Chevys. I am a poor student, I can’t afford much for gas, and so it doesn’t matter to me how powerful the car is. All I need is a car that can get me from home to school 5 days a week and wherever else I want to go on weekends, and I don’t want to fill up often. So good job GM, I was waiting for this car to arrive…my local Pontiac dealer will be seeing me in Spring for sure.
Inline6, I believe the Corsa is already being made in Mexico and sold as a Chevy there. So it wouldn’t have to come from Europe at all.
Gereon,
Selling the Pontiac G3 in N.America is the equivlent of selling Vauxhall models alongside their Opel counterparts, while a Holden dealership is built down the street. This is not a winning sales model and no company would ever purposely design so much overlap into their brand strategy.
While it may serve as a quick fix to bring a compact model to Pontiac dealers, it does detract from the brand image and counters previous commitments by GM to reduce badge engineering. GM needs to address the brand strategy in N.America – either invest in the product to support the brands, or put them out of their misery.
Eric Biran, you stated:
“By killing off Solstice/Sky Kappa” Really? I wholly agree with the rest of your post, but you need to stop getting your “News” from GMInsider.com they are garbage. AFAIK there is no plans to kill off the SKY or Solstice, there is talk of moving them off the Kappa platform onto a more expandable one that can be used to share with Buick and others (see Wildcat concept).
“Selling the Pontiac G3 in N.America is the equivalent of selling Vauxhall models alongside their Opel counterparts…”
Al, maybe you misunderstood my previous comment. What you are describing by the before mentioned statement, exactly is what also other manufacturers used to do over here for a certain reason and not just as a quick-fix. For example, already in the 70’s, the VW Polo and the Audi 50 haven’t been just similar, but nearly IDENTICAL vehicles. This was a measure, I think long before the term “badge-engineering” was established.
As posted by Michael:
“As a young driver, who’s looking for a car that is both functional, frugal, fashionable, and fun-to-drive, the G3 looks like a great choice. I know the Aveo is very similar, however, I think the Pontiac looks better.”
Are you reading this GM!!!???? This is EXACTLY what I meant by GM competing against themselves.Why offer the Aveo and then come out with a Pontiac to steal its thunder?I work for A Chevy dealer and we have just started to sell alot more Aveo’s since the whole gas thing and now you are going to do this? The above statement by Michael is exactly what I mean….especially his last sentence. In GM’s tough times,you should not be focusing on “cloning or rebadging” anything,you should be putting that money towards brand new models or new research and development. Rebadging is not a new model. Very poor decision whoever made it on your end.Its obvious on here that it is not a good idea,I hope the overpaid big wigs actually listen to us.
Focus on brand new ideas and new models and you can come back again. Didnt you learn with the Pontiac Torrent or the……ugh…..Buick Ranier???? Rebadging is a waste and does not work.Come on guys get it together!!!
“Are you reading this GM!!!???? This is EXACTLY what I meant by GM competing against themselves.”
If GM HQ actually made their dealers work as a team (what a concept that would be) when a young customer such as Michael walks into a Pontiac store looking for a car like the G3, the friendly Pontiac dealer would politely suggest, “Michael, why don’t you go down the street to another member of our corporate family, the Chevrolet dealer a mile west of here, and test drive an Aveo? We think you’ll find that’s exactly what you are looking for.”
Why can’t you work together ~ instead of competing with each other?
I hate to sound like a broken record here, but this G3 is a poor decision for the Pontiac Brand (even if, admittedly, it does look better than the Aveo). If GM wants to give Pontiac a subcompact, how about cloning the Opel Corsa? Or, an Astra clone (or, dare I say, the Astra VXR turbo???)? I know Saturn has the Astra, but if we’re badge-engineering anyway, what’s the difference?
Pontiac should have sporty cars. While Chevy has the Cobalt SS TC, Pontiac does NOT have a sport version of the G5. I’m not saying that every Pontiac has to be a sports car, but at least a sports-model option would be nice….instead, that is reserved for Chevy, GM’s mainstream brand.
Of all the GM brands, I like Pontiac the best, and I own 3 of them. However, recent decisions regarding the Pontiac brand are upsetting me to the point of really considering another manufacturer the next time around. The G# model names are, in my opinion, a mistake. And this G3 is a huge mistake, too. While the G6, arguably Pontiac’s most important model, languishes with dated styling and poor interior quality, we get model after model tossed onto the low-end of the range basically as an afterthought.
If Pontiac needs a (sub)compact, then make something compelling (Hint: you have it in Europe…make the thing here). Instead, Pontiac is left with another stop-gap measure, which will be followed by another stop-gap measure, I’m sure. I hate to say it, but you might as well throw in the towel at Pontiac if this is the face of the future.
And, one last thing: Jim, do you really believe the spin you undoubtedly were forced to write in this post? How many times were you shaking you head when you had to write “Because it’s sporty and fun-to-drive when compared to many of the cars in its segment. ” If you truly believe this statement, then GM really is living in a dreamworld.
Was this Bo Andersson’s idea? It certainly looks like the same low cost mentality, and don’t care about the sales impact ideas that he and his team of beancounters are known for.
What a stupid idea. If Pontiac wan’t a damaged brand before, well there will be no doubt about it now.
“Is it perfect? Heck, no…”
If it’s not perfect, that means Pontiac must recognize it has problems. Why market a car if you know it has problems or doesn’t adequately fill a need? You seem to be admitting it’s a stopgap. Why would anyone be interested in purchasing that?
I would like to defend the “not perfect” comment, anyone who knows the US vehicle preferences knows we like comfort, room, A/C, Auto Trans, ETC. Small cars really don’t do very well against say a Chevy Impala when the A/C is on and you are try to merge on the e way with the family,taking a trip down to the Keys!.
I would have liked to see GM bring back an updated GEO Metro. Should be capable of 50+MPG by this time. Many people tend to forget GM had the most fuel efficent vehicle sold in the US. Bad timing, would be selling real well right now! #1 in fuel economy would also be great publicity.
Wingo Wango,
Please, it would discredit Jim Hopson more if he said it was perfect. I can’t stand how people analyze every single word GM people use and turn them around as a way to get back at the company or person who said it.
By the way, in case you haven’t figured it out, nothing is perfect. So no, the G3 is not perfect, as is every other car/boat/train/building etc in the world.
“By the way, in case you haven’t figured it out, nothing is perfect.”
That goes without saying. When Hopson said “not perfect” what I suspect he really meant to say was that Pontiac had to make and accept trade offs in order to introduce the G3 into their portfolio of brands, not that the car was flawless (which is actually what “perfect” would mean.)
Designing a car is ALWAYS an issue of making trade offs. Should we build a car for economy or for acceleration and speed? Should we make it large, heavy, and luxurious; small, light and luxurious; or small, light and austere? Should we build it to be dependable and long-lasting, or we should we go for cheap and target it at those that can’t afford anything else?
Instead of Hopson just saying it’s not “perfect” he would have served us better by saying what trade offs Pontiac and GM had to make, and exactly what demographic they think will go for this made over Aveo.
“If GM HQ actually made their dealers work as a team (what a concept that would be) when a young customer such as Michael walks into a Pontiac store looking for a car like the G3, the friendly Pontiac dealer would politely suggest, “Michael, why don’t you go down the street to another member of our corporate family, the Chevrolet dealer a mile west of here, and test drive an Aveo? We think you’ll find that’s exactly what you are looking for.”
Why can’t you work together ~ instead of competing with each other?”
Excellent point but what you need to realize is that GM dealers(and any car dealer) are independently owned and not owned by GM.It’s all about money and making that sale. Any car dealer from GM to Honda is the same way….selling cars is competing with each other. Its sad but true. With that said,GM is cometing against themselves by rebadging a car.Its not about the dealer,the dealer is only selling the product that the factory gives them to sell. Thats my point,Chevy gives us the Aveo to sell…fine….we sell them and now they are selling well….so why would some guy at GM decide to make a Pontiac version and take away chances for the Chevy to sell?? I know life is choices but with GM struggling right now,the money could be used in better ways,not a rebadge of a Chevy…..I mean a Daewoo. Thats my point.
Sad. After all of GM’s promises to fix itself, and all the declarations of how you’ve ended the policy of re-badging, recognized its evils, and decided to focus on brand identity, you send out a blatant re-badge and then try to tell us it isn’t one. Come on. We know the difference between platform sharing and rebadging. We understand the point of sharing components. But tell me, where does a car that is the most miserable, worst-handling piece of crap I’ve driven in many years fit into the portfolio of a company that makes “performance” cars? GM shouldn’t be selling the Aveo in any of its brands, and certainly not at Pontiac. All the hard work Rick and all of you at GM have done over the last few years to improve GMs product lineup and brand recognition is down the tubes with this one. I’m very disappointed.
If this isn’t a “capitulate to the dealers” play, I don’t know what is. Now the Chevy salesman will have to put up with customers coming in and going, “hey, can beat the price on this G3″. That just shouldn’t happen. If done right, the G3 would offer a higher output engine, maybe a chassis/tire package, significant interior upgrades…….anything to help the Chevy dealer.
I understand that a lot of GMC dealers put up with having to compete with Chevy on the Full Size Trucks. Not just Ford, Toyota or Nissan but their sister brand.
Without significan differentiation, this play just moves Chevy volume to Pontiac.
“Excellent point but what you need to realize is that GM dealers(and any car dealer) are independently owned and not owned by GM.It’s all about money and making that sale.”
I do realize that. But it’s time for GM to look outside the box and change the model of how they sell cars. Why should the Pontiac dealer on one side of the street selling a G3 be competing with the Chevy dealer on the other side of the street selling an Aveo?
It seems the company would be stronger if all those “independent” dealers had the good of the company in mind instead of just pursuing their own profit. If the dealers contribute to making the company strong, that benefit would automatically flow to the dealers. As it is now, the diluted effort hurts everyone.
Whatever resources Pontiac spent on adding this feeble G3 to their sales portfolio could have been better spent bringing one of the Triplets to the North American market.
BLUE WING:
“I do realize that. But it’s time for GM to look outside the box and change the model of how they sell cars. Why should the Pontiac dealer on one side of the street selling a G3 be competing with the Chevy dealer on the other side of the street selling an Aveo?
It seems the company would be stronger if all those “independent” dealers had the good of the company in mind instead of just pursuing their own profit. If the dealers contribute to making the company strong, that benefit would automatically flow to the dealers. As it is now, the diluted effort hurts everyone.
Whatever resources Pontiac spent on adding this feeble G3 to their sales portfolio could have been better spent bringing one of the Triplets to the North American market.”
Good points. What alot of us dealers have always brought up was this:
GM dealers should be able to sell any GM car. Instead of just one car line dealers,mabe GM dealers should be able to sell all brands. Eliminate the smaller dealers and have GM automalls. In my area,there 6,yes 6,Chevy dealers within a 15 mile radius….nit to metion the other GM carlines.Thats insane.Thankfully,we are the biggest and most popular as we have been here since 1955. Be nice for a customer to be offered choices,say they want a Tahoe but come in and like a Denali better. It would be great to just be able to buy right there. GM would never do this of course, but imagine the possibilities.
If this is the future of Pontiac, just ax the brand and save some money. The Solstice and G8 are the only two cars in the line up that are interesting, and those cars have dumb design decisions that hinder their likeability.
Straight up… this posting is so bogus it is DAMAGING GM. Those answers are so asinine
that I would REMOVE THIS POST IMMEDIATELY.
Jim Hopson needs to be sent packing, and whoever edits this site needs to be demoted for ALLOWING HIM TO POST THOSE GARBAGE ANSWERS. I am extremely disappointed in them,
just like a horrible politician bulls****ing the public.
THE MARKET NEVER CALLS FOR BADGE ENGINEERING. Nothing about this car is different other than the front clip. You got caught with your pants down again. Had you followed the recommendations of YOU-KNOW-WHO, you would be introducing new B-class cars RIGHT NOW,
with a real Pontiac variant, with WORLD-BEST MPG and great handling, rather than a rebadged ‘upgrade’ of a car that’s always been at the bottom of it’s class in every comparison test because it’s DRiVING DYNAMICS are so POOR. But all we got was the tease of the BEAT TRIO. By the time you get something worthwhile in your showrooms, the gas crisis will be over, and all hope of good volume will be over.
THAT IS WHAT IS WRONG WITH GM. YOU SAID ‘ THIS WON’T MAKE US ANY MONEY IN NORTH AMERICA’ and decided against what could have supplied you a great market share boost because
you didn’t WANT to believe the price of gas would rocket upward when all the evidence said it would. Did you think China would STOP using more oil, or Iraq would suddenly become a placid
oasis spewing megasupplies onto the market??? Camaro now embarassingly arrives 5 years
later than it should have sporting 300 horsepower. You look like idiots.
A double quantum leap forward is now necessary from the next set of GM cars and trucks.
Phil, you may want to reduce your caffeine intake a little bit. I know it’s frustrating to see Gm “Get it” on so many things, and then issue forth a dud like this. I’m hoping that Pontiac is at least working on retuning the suspension to make the car handle better. Maybe the ‘09 would be a dud, but the 2010 model might end up worthy of the Pontiac badge if it handles better than the other cars in it’s segment. Heck, great handling might make up for the less than class leading fuel economy as owners would be having to much fun driving it to notice the missing 3mpg.
As someone who has owned only Pontiacs, I cant get this decision. 1) Why call it a G3?! It takes away from what the G8 is, a true performance car. You call it the Wave in Canada, and that seems closer in spirit to the Vibe. 2) Why does it have to look EXACTLY like an Aveo?? And besides, if you rebadged the Astra as a Pontiac G3, a) you’d sell a lot more than you are at the Saturn dealerships right now.
I love the Honda Fit. Its a cool lil rocket that is uber-practical. So I think the idea of a little Pontiac performance car is dead on. This isnt it.
If your Buick-Pontiac-GMC dealers want small cars, why doesnt Pontiac get the Astra, get a car on the same platform as the Cruze (but looking and feeling different), and why doesnt Buick get the little Buick Excelle being sold in China?? That is a nice, competent little car.
In 1990 Pontiac was the 3rd best selling nameplate in the U.S. Look at why, it had a great run of good cars that brought excitement (Sunbird Turbo, Fiero GT, Turbo Grand Prix, STE, Firebird GTA, Bonneville SSEi, etc). Then the SUV craze hit, Pontiac switched from good performance cars to body-cladding, and we saw what happened.
Do us a favor, call this the Wave, park a few in the back corner of dealerships, take the turbo ecotec, drop it into an Astra, and call that car the G3.
Thanks,
Eric
The unanimously negative feedback against this Aveo sibling is telling. This is what Motor City did back in the 1970s when the oil crises came up: hastily import and rebadge a small foreign car and spread across the lineup. Pontiac needs to have a small car to make up volume sales–the G3 isn’t it. The Aveo has managed what sales it’s had because the thing is so cheap and discounted anyway. It’s not a class-leader. It’s not a Honda Fit.
Mr. Hopson’s remarks in defense of the G3 were poorly chosen too. Comparing the Chevy/Pontiac/Daewoo heritage to the combined Toyota/Lexus platform was weak. A Lexus sedan may employ a similar layout to a Toyota, but there are major differences as well to help distinguish the vehicles in their widely different markets. A Lexus ES350 is a different car than a Toyota Camry.
It is easy to see the same cannot be said with the G3 and the Aveo. And that trait is seen with the Chevy Cobalt and the Pontiac G5. Is Mr. Hopson going to remark that the G5 is a “sporty” and “well-defined” alternative to the Cobalt? The folks who partake in these automotive blog sites are gearheads, not fools. I understand a Pontiac marketer trying to put the best face on a weak product. But give the FastLane audience some credit.
The G3 could end up selling well if the price is low enough. In my mind, the more small cars sold is for the better: less space taken up, less fuel consumed. Best of luck: this may be a bigger hit for Pontiac than its much nicer G8 sedan and Solstice roadster.
From what I’m reading, your customers have money. They just don’t want to spend it on gasoline. But they are willing to spend it on a small, high performance, fuel efficient vehicle that has extraordinary styling and attitude.
Your job is to make a small car that anyone would be proud to be seen in. Make it worthy of the name.
If I didn’t see these pictures in this article, I would have said “What’s the deal with the Aveo?”. This is hardly anything more than a poor re-badge, which makes me sad as a supporter of Pontiac.
I want GM to succeed, and Pontiac is included in that. However, this was/is a huge miss for GM.
It’s one thing to share the chassis components, etc – it’s another to basically skin it just like the one it’s re-badged from. Why even have Pontiac then? Same with GMC for that matter.
The idea of a G3 is needed, just not quite a rebadged Aveo. Maybe something else, just not an Aveo. Yes, Pontiac needs a small, inexpensive car to fill a void in the BPG chain. If somone is a loyal customer to a BPG store and wants to buy a small high milage car for themselves, kids or grand kids, why force them to go elsewhere? I would want them to stay in my store. Buy them a G3, then when they want to move up, there will be a G5/G6 there for them. What happened to the idea of customers for life? Moms got the Denali, dad has a LaCrosse, sell them a G3 for the kid going off to college so they don’t have to worry about the car breaking down. Don’t make me have to send them off and take a chance on them not coming back.
Is it to late to go back and revisit what exactly the G3 is? What i mean is, the Pontiac Vibe is already a Toyota wearing Pontiac clothes. So if you must rebadge, perhaps Toyota would agree to letting you rebadge one of their Scions as a G3 instead of you using a daewoo. I’ve got to say, GM really should sell Daewoo. They have an aweful reputation in fit and finish, and also reliability. They’ve been given enough time to improve, but haven’t. Perhaps it is time to cut them loose.
Bob, I don’t want to be harsh, only honest. This Pontiac model is a rather weak and non-committal effort at an economy car.
GM can make cars that people desire. You can design cars that people want to buy, not merely accept as a compromise or to get from point A to point B.
GM has built any number of cars that are iconic. Several of the current models get it right design-wise: Corvette, Chevy Malibu and HHR, Pontiac G6, and the proposed Cadillac coupe. That’s the juice needed in anything GM puts out for sale.
I think that in this time of restricted resources, a company with those capabilities should commit its resources only to winning designs… potentially iconic cars which are the best you can do design-wise, technically etc. Less than that dilutes your brand and is just more of the old-think that produced the lull in Detroit. We wish you success.
I just took look at the G3 and I think it was smiling at me! Not a bad looking car, nice theme, but probably should be a bit more aggressive and the MPG’s are a little low for a vehicle this side – you should be pushing 40 MPG.
HEY! I drive one of those it’s an Aveo with a face lift!
Wow. This is pretty pathetic. As an Aveo, fine. Chevy is the brand for this car. But Pontiac? Who would dare call this sacrilege a Pontiac? Good grief! I already get ribbing from friends that the G8 is a beast under the hood, but it’s not a car that growls, “I’m gonna smoke you off the line!”…I don’t need another one. I am not looking forward to my friend the Ford fanatic learning about this. What an embarrassment. If this is a Pontiac, then Dave Campo was the best Dallas Cowboys coach EVER!
Dang. We need more cars like the Solstice Coupe and G8 (at least the beast under the hood), and less (and by “less” I mean “none”) of this type of brand destruction. I am to the point where I am becoming more embarrassed than proud of the cars coming out of the Pontiac stable. Please stop diluting the brand. Please. Have mercy.
Jim, It occurs to me that you could have saved a lot of time by simply uttering these 12 words:
“Ladies and gentlemen, I bring you the 2009 Pontiac 1000. Thank you.”
Complicated stuff managing models, no?
Just in case there haven’t been discussed all brand matchings, there may be one that has been overlooked (at least it is kinda funny). So : …… Since Buick is becoming such an important brand in Asia and it needs further market recognition at home and abroad and there’s struggle in pairing PBG dealerships, what if GMC and Pontiac G8 would merge into Buick.
Buick Sierra, Buick Yukon, Terrain – a luxury small crossover badged Buick, no Acadia, only Enclave, G8 gets to be a Buick.
Sierra Denali and Yukon would make instant kickass Buicks. Regular Sierras should be made a little more upscale and voila.
Oh! I got carried away. Pontiac G5 is good looking. ( However, I don’t know if it could be a good Buick – American Lexus).
As a Pontiac “brand-loyalist,” I’ll continue to be a loyal customer under the following conditions:
For every lame rebadge job like this Pontiac G3, you give us a worthwhile rebadege job to go with it.
My proposal in exchange for the G3:
A Cobalt SS TC rebadged as a Pontiac G5 GXP
- or -
An Astra VXR rebadge as a Pontiac “insert name here” GXP (I dare you to call this the Astre….)
What will it take to put you into this deal today?
this is a bad move. They need to find a way to differentiate between the brands, not just do a cut and paste and copy. A pontiac should be about performance. A small econobox does not say performance. Whats next? a Buick version? how about a Cadillac wreath on the front of that puppy? I love my GM products, but this is not a good move in my opinion. I don’t think the need to rebadge across the line. A few products on similar platforms is one thing, but this is rediculous.
Isn’t the G3 just a re-badged Chevy Aveo? The G3 and Aveo share a lot of components, true. But Toyota and Lexus also share components. Why re-engineer the wheel unnecessarily?
Now isn’t that a good answer. When will GM learn? WE DON’T WANT THE SAME CARS WITH DIFFERENT HEAD AND TAIL LIGHTS!!!
This is just an elaborate hoax. GM is not repeating the Cimarron fiasco. They are just doing this to tweak everybody.
no trans-am no gm bailout we want the knight back
Is this Pontiac G3 thing still alive? It wasn’t a good idea in September when Hopson posted this blog, and with all the financial turmoil and economic turbulence since then, it’s an even worse idea now.
GM was foolish to kill the G8 ST that they had already developed and gotten ready for production. after they spent all that money, they then decided to kill it? what sense does that make…another GM blunder!
Pontiac would have been extremely successful with that vehicle as there is no other vehicle like it on the market today, GM could have made the further stretch to introduce a similar model badged as the Chevrolet El Camino, I guess they didnt see the value in a smaller more fuel efficient truck class.
Because it was an innovative product with nothing else like it on the market it is my belief that it would not be a niche product(although GM begs to differ) I think it would have gotten many more buyers through the doors at BPG dealers and would have increased the likelyhood of an individual purchasing a GM product. good luck GM because your making major mistakes and severely deteriorating the value in any of your brands.
Oh dear…According to The Wall Street Journal, Pontiac has nearly a two-year supply of G3’s at current sales rates.
In the course of doing some research, writer Neal Boudette discovered that GM has 3,479 unsold G3 units clogging up its dealers and vacant lots. At current sales rate if GM stopped producing G3s today they would still have a supply that would last them until December 16, 2010.
In the meantime, G8 sales have been at an all time high!
Kill the G3, bring on the G8 ST and Sportwagon.. lets do this niche brand strategy right!!