One Step Closer to the Camaro
By Ed Peper
North American Vice President, Chevrolet
Today is an exciting day for us here as we come even closer to the production of the 2010 Chevy Camaro. I want to make sure FastLane readers are among the first to know that starting today, Chevy dealers are taking orders for the new Camaro set to be in showrooms next year. Today we announced that pricing for the Camaro will start at $22,995. I’m really excited for the return of this 21st Century sports car. You can find more specific details in the press release.
In addition, as we mentioned in a post over on FYI a few weeks ago, Chevrolet has two big roles with the Camaro and 2009 Chevy Traverse in NBC’s new show “My Own Worst Enemy.” The show stars Christian Slater as a man with two personalities — an average suburban dad and covert spy. I just want to remind everyone that the show premieres tonight, so make sure you tune in to see the Camaro and Traverse in action on prime time.
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“…starting today, Chevy dealers are taking orders for the new Camaro set to be in showrooms next year. Today we announced that pricing for the Camaro will start at $22,995>”
Why not allow orders over the Internet?
Are you taking any action to prevent your dealers from charging a premium over the MSRP?
Ed, congrats on this great news! You’re a class act!
B
Beautiful car. May it spark the resurgence of GM. All involved should be very, very proud!!!
“May it spark the resurgence of GM. All involved should be very, very proud!!!”
Very proud of what is essentially a retro-design of something from 1969 and that Ford and Chrysler have already beaten GM to with the Mustang and Challenger?
Don’t hold your breath Dennis, but it’s unlikely that what is only a niche product will spark a resurgence of GM. The Volt might do that, but not a retro-design Camaro.
Chevy seems to be getting some good cars, but other brands are languishing. I think I would upgrade Saturn’s image by importing a smaller opel version. Create new cars with Opel from the beginning with an eye for export or building in US. Kill Pontiac. Buick was going for Lexus, but there are not enough new designs. It needs a full lineup like Lexus.
The brand with the most future Buzz is Saab. It could have such appeal if they were let off the leash and actually produced some new cars.
Chevy = Toyota
Saturn = VW fun image +Scion + Mini – youth
Buick = Lexus
Cadillac = Exotic dramatic american luxury.
Saab = Safety, Sporty, Clean Minimalist Modernism, Euro Understated Luxury.
Oh! Saab = Audi + Volvo
I also share the worry over dealer overcharging. That is one reason why Dodge’s new Challenger (besides being cheaply built) hasn’t had any legs. The Camaro’s early data appears positive, but time will tell how it measures up in road tests.
Speaking of Dodge…what about that merger?
Ed,
I will be placing my order for the following Camaro:
1SS – Manual transmission (MXO)
Silver/Black Cloth
RS package
Moonroof
Hurst Short Throw shift kit
But, untill I can find a dealer willing to sell it to me without markup, I will not be ordering it. I know that federal franchise laws prohibit you (GM) from telling your dealers what they can and cannot charge for.
I would just like you to keep this in mind: GM needs positive sales. Positive reviews. And a positive DEALER EXPERIENCE. With the stock at around 5 bucks a share and all sorts of off the wall rumours of the company selling, buying, and merging with everyone from Chrysler to Ford to who knows what else is brewing, you need the Camaro to succeed. The only way it can is to let the people have it at the price you have suggested.
Anything – ANYTHING – you can do to discourage your dealer network from pricegouging will go a long way in getting the Camaro off to a great sales start next year and keep it going.
I understand there is demand for this car, and I understand dealers are independent of GM. But there has to be something you can do to STRONGLY urge your dealers to let the sticker price be the sales price, and not a penny more.
Other than that, I love this car, and cannot wait to buy mine.
Great job to everyone involved with the Camaro team. Congrats and thank you!
After watching this lame show all I can say is….nah nah nah nah….nah nah nah nah…..hey hey hey….goodbye…..
Saab = Audi + Volvo + Acura
As for the Camaro, it looks really good. I can’t wait to see and drive one when they become available. Heck, I might even trade my HHR on one now that I live in a place with less severe winters and almost no road salt. That is, IF dealers can keep from charging over sticker for them. One possible cure would be to delay shipments to dealers until the car is in full production. That way there would be no shortage of Camaros, and thus no reason for dealers to inflate the prices.
“But, until I can find a dealer willing to sell it to me without markup, I will not be ordering it. I know that federal franchise laws prohibit you (GM) from telling your dealers what they can and cannot charge for.”
It seems the obvious solution to that would be for GM to accept orders over the Internet. Federal law surely wouldn’t prevent GM from selling the Camaro through the Internet at MSRP, would it?
If there is nothing GM can do to prevent dealers from gouging loyal GM customers, those customers won’t stay loyal very long.
Laramie wrote: Why not allow orders over the Internet?
The partnership between Chevrolet and the vast nationwide network of Chevrolet dealers is very important, and was established to best serve our customers. With this in mind, only Chevrolet dealers are authorized to submit orders to General Motors.
We did look into accepting internet orders, but various franchise laws put up many hurdles that we could not overcome.
John Fitzpatrick
Marketing Manager, Camaro
Folks,
This is a mass produced car and no one should be paying markups on the Camaro. If you are so impatient that you are willing to buy from a dealer who is trying to rip you off you have no one to blame for yourself. Do not come here and chastise GM execs because you “might” be subjected to markups due to your desire to have the first Camaro in your county. This is a 100k/year model, not a ZR-1 and thus there should be plenty of competition between dealers and plenty of inventory.
Warranty?
I note the press release mentions what engines the new Camaro will have and the MSRP GM has set (although it seems doubtful anyone will actually be able to buy a Camaro at the MSRP) but it mentions nothing about the warranty GM will provide for the new Camaro.
With Mr. Lutz’s new push for quality and his challenge/claim that the quality of the Malibu is superb, can we assume that GM’s quality assurance section will make sure the quality of the Camaro will be equally good?
And if the quality of the Camaro will be superior, can we also assume the warranty will reflect GM”s confidence in the car’s quality? Perhaps with a 10-year, 120,000 mile inclusive warranty that covers everything except tires and struts/shocks?
Such a warranty would show GM really does take quality seriously.
John Fitzpatrick said: “We did look into accepting internet orders, but various franchise laws put up many hurdles that we could not overcome.”
Mr Fitzpatrick,
Thank you for taking the time to reply. You’ve answered a question many of us have had.
I’m certainly no attorney and can’t even pretend to understand franchise laws, but it does seem strange you can’t sell your products to whom you want by whatever method you’d like to use ~ including over the Internet. But I know your attorneys have it right if they say there are too many hurdles. It’s unfortunate it has to be that way.
Cool.I work at a Chevy dealer in Part. 22 years now. While the Camaro is cool and long overdue,I wonder how it will fare being :
1. It should have been out competing against the 2005 Mustang.
2.It should have been out competing against the Challenger. Get my point here?
I wonder when it comes out if anyone will be that excited anymore??
Especially in todays bad economy and the state of GM these days….and now GMAC has
locked almost everyone out. Believe it or not I AM a GM supporter and only drive Chevys.I own an 07 HHR and love it.I also love Camaros having owned seven 1969 Camaros……
But you guys are out of touch with the public….look at this blog posted on MSN today,
http://blogs.moneycentral.msn.com/smartspending/archive/2008/10/13/car-buyer-alert-gmac-is-requiring-a-700-credit-score.aspx?PageIndex=9I have never seen such animosity towards GM in my entire career!!!! You need to do SOMETHING to restore
confidence in GM……and a “specialty” car is not it…sorry as much as I love the new Camaro.
“Such a warranty would show GM really does take quality seriously.”
I think we can safely assume the Camaro will have the same warranty of every other Chevy product. Why would GM be providing 10 year warranties when their primary competitors don’t even match their current coverage? No one asks Toyota or Honda to back their legendary reliability with 10 year warranties but people expect GM to do so. Hyundai is the only major automaker that offers better coverage than GM offers and there are some major caveats to Hyundai’s coverage as far as I know. Also, I find it interesting that people propose warranty periods that outlast the average tenure of a new car with its original owner. Most people keep a vehicle 5-7 years so I don’t see the point of a 10 year new vehicle warranty.
Laramie,
One thought I had about internet orders. While I know you think this is a good idea, but what happens to the person who doesn’t know which car they want, and have to go to a dealer?
There are two scenarios with your plan:
1) Dealers no longer exist because everyone is buying through the internet directly from GM. How would a person test drive a car and see which one they want?
2) Dealers still exist, but why would anyone buy from them, and why would the dealer try to help a customer because they know the person will end up buying their car through the internet? It’s like using a real estate agent. Why would they show you a house, only to have you by-pass them and buy it without help. That’s why you have to sign a contract with them. Would you have to sign contracts with dealers?
If you can answer these questions that would help. But I don’t really see how buying directly from GM that benificial to everyone.
“Why would GM be providing 10 year warranties when their primary competitors don’t even match their current coverage?”
It’s not complicated Sheth. In fact, it’s pretty simple ~ to show they have confidence in the quality and durability of their vehicles and that they are willing to stand behind them with the best warranty in the business.
“No one asks Toyota or Honda to back their legendary reliability with 10 year warranties but people expect GM to do so.”
I think Toyota and Honda should also have ten-year warranties if they are confident in the quality of their product, however, this is a GM blog, so there’s not much point is saying that here.
I feel the dealer overcharge concern is legit–not just to customers, but to GM as well. If you have renegade dealers stubbornly holding a 20% premium over the sticker price for a product that won’t sell, there’s a sale lost. I’m a proud capitalist, but I’m also pragmatic. Logic would indicate that a dealer would trim the cost or delete the surcharge after months of having no sale. People act illogically. I have seen numerous Ford dealerships who were demanding 10% over sticker for their Shelby GT Mustangs, resulting in no sale into the next model year. There’s also the factor of impression. If dealers are demanding $6,000 premiums for $25,000 Camaros, the result will be many unsold cars on dealer lots. That leads into embarrassing stories from the press, and another black eye for the General.
If I had a dime to spend, it would be for this car. The Camaro SS, especially, sounds amazing. When you compare the specs and features to the Dodge Challenger R/T, you see a mile of difference in engineering and in features. The Challenger, even in SE trim, is not a bad car. But you can tell it’s a Dodge. What is a Dodge nowadays? It’s a cheaply built vehicle with a low-quality interior, so-so mileage, and is a decade behind. The Challenger of today is a step ahead of the Challenger of yesterday–but just a step. With this new Camaro, you see real progress. I don’t look at it as a muscle car, but as a genuine GT. What car, from the stats, is most competitive with the base Camaro? The BMW 335i.
I could see some people having looked at the Camaro and not be taken back. We’ve been bombarded with images on the Web, in magazines, and on the screen. The shock effect is gone. But there’s still something there. I loved this car when I saw it in concept form, and I’m impressed with what I see here. Run the Great Wall for one, I would.
On the franchise topic,
I’m fairly certain these federal laws were enacted 100 years ago and it would take an act of congress to reverse them – hell, they are so far up to their eyeballs with the election and economy, there’s no way they’d even consider hearings on franchise laws.
But there just has to be something GM can do to make things easier for us consumers of the Camaro.
Don’t forget that the dealer who charges a premium isn’t exactly going to tell it straight to the customer – “sorry, I’m greedy, thought I could take you for a ride.” The dealer is going to do a song and dance about how GM limits their supply and how GM won’t provide more vehicles, so they have no choice but to charge a premium and it’s all GM’s fault!
The customer will see the premium as a GM issue. 6 months later when they hear their neighbour bragging about how they got a new Camaro at $2000 below MSRP with free floor mats and 0% financing, the customer will be disatisfied with GM, not the dealer.
All they have to do is: ASSIGN 20 to each dealer instead of two… Just like they did with the malibu. Send FULL production of the camaro to the showroom floors… but then again.. the G8 is still sitting there, despite being a wonderful car.
Two years ago we out a deposit for 2 Camaro’s at our local Chevrolet dealer, today we cancelled our order for both Camaros. The dealer demanded additional money to actually order the cars, if this is the way you instruct your dealers to deal with customers that still have loyalty, are shareholders of the company (don’t even go there with the value of the shares) no wonder GM is increasingly experiencing challenging times.
Good luck in selling your Camaro’s!
“…today we canceled our order for both Camaros. The dealer demanded additional money to actually order the cars, if this is the way you instruct your dealers to deal with customers that still have loyalty and are shareholders of the company (don’t even go there with the value of the shares) no wonder GM is increasingly experiencing challenging times.”
Sounds like another opportunity for Camaro marketing manager John Fitzpatrick to jump in with an explanation. John, can you answer RJR’s concern?
Surprise us, roll em out early.
remember GM will require the dealer to take camaro models that will not sell well so the dealer will need to charge extra on the “hot” models to make up for less profit made on the models that do not sell well.
I may be way off here, but can’t GM make it clear to the dealers that if any of them are caught selling Camaros for over MSRP, then any of their previously allocated Camaros will be reallocated to nearby dealers who are not selling for over MSRP. Dealers may not be owned by GM, but that doesn’t mean that they don’t have to play by GM’s rules. They do, IF they want to keep selling GM cars.
The camaro will be a good fit for the older wannabes an yes I would consider getting one. I think GM is missing the boat, this car should of been out a few years ago. Also GM should consider the ole chevett, back in 1978 I had one an logged well over 100k on it with no problems (got over 40mpg). With todays technology a vehicle like that would be a winner. Imagine a sleak chevett comanding over 50mpg and selling under 10 grand. ??
RJR:
It is very disappointing to hear of your recent experience. GM expects each of its dealers to hold the value of its customers in high regards; and as a rule, the majority of dealers exceed this principle. It is important to keep in mind that all dealers are independent business operators, and are allowed to set individual business practices as it relates to deposits for orders and final transaction price. If you have not already done so, you should discuss your concerns regarding your two Camaro orders directly with the Dealer Operator or General Manager of your dealership. If you are not satisfied with the results of that discussion, you – as the customer – has the right to deal with another Chevrolet dealership in ordering a Camaro.
Thanks
John Fitzpatrick
Marketing Manager – Camaro
Has anyone actually experienced any price gouging yet? I am confused as to why people are demanding action from GM in regards to a car that isnt on sale yet. If GM plans to produce 100k of these cars a year I would assume that after the first month or two it will be fairly easy to aquire a Camaro at a reasonable price. We need to stop dealing in hypotheticals and wait until the car actually hits dealer lots.
Sheth,
There is an established history of dealers ( not just GM) who will sell popular new models at a premium over MSRP. Especially if the introduction is slow, and it’ll be months between introduction and when the car hits full production. I assume that everyone wants to know what measures GM can take to ensure that their dealers aren’t going to take part in that practice.
Sheth,
When the GTO came out in ‘04, Pontiac dealers were gouging over 10 grand, and holding on to the cars for months if they didn’t sell with their markup….. eventually, I’m sure they did sell, albeit at a substantially lower price.
You are right, over time the prices will come down. It’s inevitable if any dealer worth it’s salt wishes to stay in business long. But at the same time, there is substantial precedent of dealers trying to take advantage of customers when a new and exciting product comes out.
The problem I have along with most of the others who echo my sentiments is that GM sets the MSRP, and thus that SHOULD BE the MOST any dealer would ask. While no dealer will show you their real books (unless you are the FBI or IRS and come in with a search warrant), we all know the markup on cars at the MSRP is more than sufficient for dealers to make a substantial profit on each sale. My belief is that there is always a minimum 2 grand of neggotiating room on any car with an MSRP of under 40 grand. So, I will usually offer 2500 below MSRP and work up from there.
If I am wrong, I ask dealers to show me their books or I walk out. I usually win in the end.
But it’s a hassle, a pain in the butt, and it would be sooooo much simpler if cars were priced like milk. I love the Saturn way, and I wish GM converted all of their brands like Saturn.
Speaking of which, Mr. Fitzpatrick, how does Saturn get around the franchise laws?
If you can do it with them, you can do it with Chevy.
To all those whining about dealer mark-ups:
If you don’t want to be taken to the cleaners on a new Camaro, simply wait a little bit until inventories pile up at the dealer. It’s just that simple.
Look at the G8…..dealers had but a few (if any) at the start, and prices were marked up. No one bought them at those prices, and now with several on every lot, you’ve got your pick at a price you’d be happy with (and with GM incentives, too).
Of course, the dealers never learn; one of the 888-G8s is still sitting on the lot at a nearby dealer….they had marked it up $5000 over sticker in the beginning, but I bet they’re dying to get rid of the thing at any price now. It’s sad that the dealers operate like this, but corporate GM has no control over this, so stop blaming them. And since Chevy dealers are on every block, if you can’t negotiate a reasonable price, then you’re the one with the problem.
Sheth: “I am confused as to why people are demanding action from GM in regards to a car that isn’t on sale yet.”
Unfortunately, there is a past history of dealer gouging with popular brands that are introduced in limited numbers. People are projecting their concern about what they know has happened in the past, forward to what they are guessing will happen as GM introduces the Camaro.
Is a certainty dealer gouging will happen? No way to predict for sure, but that doesn’t mean people don’t have the right to share their concerns with GM. There’s nothing wrong with being proactive, and there is also some value in GM knowing that people feel that way.
Michael J,
GM has no direct control over that, but they do have an incredible amount of influence. Say Dealer A is selling a Camaro at $5,000 over MSRP, Dealers B and C are selling at MSRP, and dealer D is wanting to sell a lot of cars and sells for under MSRP. Why should GM give any further Camaros to Dealer A, when dealers B, C and especially D are the ones that are playing by the rules that GM sets? They shouldn’t. So Dealer A should rightfully be S.O.L on getting any new Camaros for a while, while dealers B, C and D will get all they can sell. Simple, fair, and maybe gets dealer A to play by the rules with the next new model.
Funny how people actually still think the dealers are a direct extension of the company…
Do yourself a favor and reject the Chrysler deal. I don’t care what stupid self-interested bankers out there are encouraging you to hang yourselves with the additional losses Chrysler represents.
Way too much costs for shutting down operations to remove redundancies and complete product
overlaps. Much less the DEALER SHUTDOWN COSTS. Let Cerberus continue to suffer. Walk away from dumb “FINANCIAL SOLUTIONS”.
If you complete this deal it will end this company, much less Chrysler.
Let Nissan-Renault take on the albatross!!
After reading Mark LaNeve’s comments i find him really naive. Pontiac 200k sales is shrinking fast. It will go to 100k and less. GM is top-tier carmaker, yet LaNeve compares Pontiac to second-tier brands to VW, Subaru etc. Even these brands sometimes have better offerings than GM eg. the fuel-efficient VW Jetta TDI Diesel. This guy absolutely has no clue. When GM merges Chrysler, a massive bloodletting should be executed when half of the middle-management, Chrysler, Dodge, Pontiac, GMC, along with LaNeve, must go out of the doors of GM RenCen.
First of all I would like to congratulate you for coming out with such a world class product. I really am developing a strong urge to buy this one and at the starting price of $23000 I can’t ask for anything more stylish and beautiful
This car might be the biggest mistake in GM history. 1st it being designed on the 69 Camaro as the base at the very least if you were 16 in 1969 it means you were born in 53 that said you would be 55 years old. What old man is going to climb in and out of an monster like that. Plus the 67-69 might be the least styled Camaro of all time let’s face it, it was ugly. Being 35 (The target market) go with the 82-92 as the design base. Heck at least the IROC was cool. Next Pontiac was the performance division it should have been a Firebird at least it would have class. Chevrolet is a basic boring division which as a Subaru driver would never touch. Trans Am yes Camaros no let Billy Bob have it for his 1/2 miles.
I don’t believe the price-gouge concern is premature with the recent history from Ford and Chrysler. A dealer is an entrepreneur, and has the legal right to sell a popular new motorcar for whatever the public will pay. It can backfire, and often has when it’s come to mass-produced vehicles. It would be fair to say the General needs its products, especially something as covered as the Camaro, to move smoothly in a troubled market. GM sales management can benefit by working with dealers to prevent price-gouging. There’s a shared interest with the manufacturer, seller, and buyer.
We are getting away from the big picture. The ‘10 Chevy Camaro appears to have the ingredients to become a phenom. I’m interested in seeing it in person, of course, but also in reading reviews. The Camaro looks more like a high-end GT than a simplistic muscle car. The dual-cam 3.6 L direct-injected V-6 and 6 spd. manual all advertise that.
Too bad the ordering process is completely screwed up. Dealers are saying that they only have 2-6 cars available to them and that customer orders have to be for the model allocation provided. Check out the various forums for the kind of crap that dealers are telling customers. Since the only orders being put in at this point are for customer sales, this should have been much different. Dealers should have been inputing EVERY customer order that was legit, and the only variable should be delivery. The factory would then have a good idea of model mix and regional variances for all of the customer sales, rather than the sales that the dealers are willing to put in based upon their “allotment”. GM has done so many things right with the Camaro, but this ordering process is a royal cluster****. Whether this is caused by the factory or the dealers doesn’t matter. It should be straightened out immediately and dealers should be ORDERED to input every customer order in the order received regardless of their vehicle allotment.
“Whether this is caused by the factory or the dealers doesn’t matter. It should be straightened out immediately and dealers should be ORDERED to input every customer order in the order received regardless of their vehicle allotment.”
Any comment Mr. Fitzpatrick?
“Funny how people actually still think the dealers are a direct extension of the company…”
And why shouldn’t we think that? They have a big sign in front that says, “GM.”
Actually, I know they are independent businesses and that GM has little control over them. But it does seem funny the current dealer business model was allowed to evolve that way.
It would seem in corporate GM’s best interest if their dealer network had to comply with minimum standards of conduct, and that when they don’t, GM should be able to pull the plug on them without a bunch of laws getting in the way.
In my opinion, GM’s dealer network is one of the weakest parts of their business model, and the negatives of that network aren’t going to help GM dig itself out of the hole it’s in — no matter how strong the car lineup.
I wonder if GM will even be around for the Camaro to come out…..I work at a chevy dealer since 1985. I drive only GM cars,always did but with the state of the economy,lack of car sales,people buying toyota/hondas……..the GM Bankruptcy rumors,the merger rumors…..I dont know….
Ive said it before….the camaro should have been out with the 05 mustang and of course the 08 challenger. Where was it???? GM,you should have had a hybrid competing against the prius!!! shame on you. You give us a $55,000 taho hybrid??!! and now a hybrid Escalade??? $70,000+?? Keep em! We have a hybrid malibu that gets 34 mpg??Who cares?Why cant you build a car/hybrid that gets 40mpg + also??? You should have seen it (the fuel crunch)coming,theres no excuse.The HUMMER brand is a joke. Believe it or not,I am a GM guy and always defends them to my customers,but enough is enough. Oh,let me not forget the new Traverse we have cluttering up our lots that we cant give away……nice truck,dont get me wrong….but $46,000 ????? Are you all high???
Saturn,GMC and Buick all sold thier versions and now Chevy,as usual,gets last try……..
I think the Camaro is awesome looking , I just feel we dont need another specialty car……look what happened with the horrid SSR….GM is in trouble and is out of touch with what consumers want in a car,I think you are headed in the right direction but your timing sucks. Sorry if I sound pissed off,I am,but I come to work in a dealer everyday that is laying off workers every Friday because of everything going on in the world right now.No one is buying cars…no one is servicing cars… After 22 years,I dont want to lose my job. I have always supported GM and drive a 2007 HHR right now which I love but GM is always behind times. Why is that Toyota and Honda are kicking everyones asses?
“Oh,let me not forget the new Traverse we have cluttering up our lots that we cant give away……nice truck ,don’t get me wrong….but $46,000 ????”
Noel,
That raises the question of why GM can’t bring into the U.S. market, a compact pickup truck such as the Chevy Montana they make in Brazil and sell only to our South American neighbors? Chevrolet Montana
Believe it or not, gas prices are only temporarily low — at least what now seems low after $4.00+. The era of the Escalades, Traverses, and Tahoes will become nothing more than specialty cars for those who really need them — not a lifestyle statement as they have been for the last 15 years.
One has to believe the Chevy Montana would sell here — if GM offered it.
I know how to put GM back on top! I have something that will save a lot of American jobs for a lot of Americans.
I love America, I know GM is a big part of America, I have a plan to save GM and many American jobs. I’m not asking for money or a handout, I just want to do what is right for the country. I hope someone from General Motors will take the time to hear me out. I don’t know exactly who I need to talk to about this plan, I am hoping someone will read this email and point me in the right direction.
I spent 30 years in the military, I have seen a lot in my life time, I have always been a big supporter of GM. I want to help give back something to the people of America, that means the hard working people of GM. I don’t want to see them in the unemployment line.
America is a Great Country, God has blessed America, GM is a big part of this country. Thank you for your time.
I think that GMs new strategy for product placement in the highly anticipated new series “My Own Worst Enemy” is a great business move for the company! We all know that TV commercials are becoming a “has been” with the new technology of DVRs. Even though DVRs are not in every home, yet, they will be. So, it’s only a matter of time before TV commercials are virtually history (Think about how DVD players were once a luxury, and now they’re a common household appliance). That’s why I give props to GM for being innovative and progressive with the times, and creating consumer awareness about their new products. With auto sales at an 15-year low, the auto industry NEEDS to change their ways of communicating to their consumers. If you’d like to hear more about GMs new strategy you should check out my blog http://allisonkeeney.wordpress.com/
Noel:
I think you need to review last month’s sales before declaring that the slow economy is leading people to buy Toyotas and Nissans. Both companies experienced sales collapses last month. Toyota’s monthly sales decline was about twice as large as GM’s and Toyota is down 10%+ on the year. IN fact, Toyota launched an unprecedented 0% offer to counter slumping sales. Where are you getting your information?
You also say “who cares?” about a 34mpg hybrid but the fact of the matter is the Camry hybrid gets 34mpg on the highway just like the Malibu and the Camry hybrid has been relatively successful. I think a “mild” hybrid midsize sedan is better than no hybrid offering in the segment. Honda, Hyundai, Ford, etc. don’t even have a hybrid sedan offering. You make fun of the price tag on the Escalade hybrid but don’t mention the three hybrid models GM offers that are under $27k or so. As for the Traverse’s fully loaded price I think you should note that competitors top out at $41k-$45k and many of them have less power and less features. It’s common for non luxury branded 3 row crossovers to exceed $40k with all the options.
As for the Camaro I believe that people who can’t find serious fault with the car are no focusing their ire on the dealers. If we all agree that GM doesn’t control or own the dealers I see no reason to keep lecturing GM to prevent price gouging. With 3900 Chevy dealers and 100k Camaros to be built over the course of a year I would have to say anyone with a shred of common sense should not pay thousands over MSRP. In this economy one would have to be quite naive to allow a dealer to gouge them on this car. GM priced the car aggressively and that’s all we can ask them to do at this stage. The GTO and G8 are low volume models compared to the Camaro. I haven’t heard of any price gouging on GM’s recent hit products (CTS, Malibu, Enclave) so I see no reason for that to happen on the Camaro.
“…product placement in the highly anticipated new series “My Own Worst Enemy” is a great business move.”
Highly anticipated by whom? I’ve never heard of “My Worst Enemy.” Your analysis of TV commercials as a declining way to influence people’s buying decisions is correct. However, you seem unaware that network TV programs are also undergoing what will be a permanent downturn.
Hey Noel read the comment above yours by Trevor Bainbridge.
Is it the vehicles GM makes or is it the dealership experience that turns folks away. I’ve followed this blog site for some time now. I read alot of negative comments towards our dealerships. We even talk about our own personel experiences with them and we our GM. I’ve gotten real upset with some of the dealerships just the way they treat me and the coustomers. It doesn’t matter how good the quality, how good looking and how good the vehicle ride and drives, if the dealership doesn’t listen to and respect the coustomer. As a GM engineer it’s like handing over your baby you’ve nutured and raised with loving care to someone else to care for after you. I’m not seeing the love carried on at some of the dealers. This has got to change now as part of the on going turn around plan at GM. Individuals at some dealers need to be identified as those who create a bad image for GM. Because you’re right, alot of GM coustomers do think GM is owned and ran by GM.
Respectfully
I AM GM
I work for a LARGE auto group(which will be namless on here) and we are the biggest/best selling dealer in the area. We also have 3 Honda stores as well as Toyota and others. Honda dealers are selling. Yes,I know EVERYONE is down lately….but you cant deny that before all this mess that Toyota and Honda were not kicking our butts. Why? Yes,I sounded annoyed and I knocked the Hybrids we offer.I also do know that 34 mpg in the Malibu is better than nothing at all.Problem is,consumers are so into the Prius that they dont care about our hybrids.Thats a fact.I guess my point is if Toyota produced the Prius for 10 years,then why the hell couldnt GM have made when to counter it?They sure could have. Yes,I think the Tahoe/Escalade hybrids are ridiculous.Way too expensive in a rapidly shrinking SUV market.5-10 years ago…yes….now…..uh,no.
Now onto the Traverse…….I like it,I think it is very nice…again….bad timing to offer it,thats all I am saying. The Saturn version has been out longer as is the GMC and Buick. I personally hate the way GM always competes with itself. Yes I realize its priced against competitors,but consumers are not drawn to it for some reason.Again,this could be because no one is spending right now also.
I dont think its GM’s cars,because we make excellent cars.I only drive GM. It could be some dealers who turn people off,it also happens in non-GM franchises too. What I dont like is dealer mark ups. When the SSR came out,the Chevy dealer I was at at that time,marked it up $15,000!!! The sticker was $47,000a and it got marked up to $62,000!!!! Insane. EVERY Chevy dealer in the area was doing it. I hope they dont do it with the Camaro. I like the Camaro,I have owned 7 1969 Camaros in my lifetime and it looks good. I happen to think the Challenger is nice because it stuck to the original lines more than the Camaro does. I dont want to see GM fail and I want to only drive GM cars. But……thier marketing strategies need help and they need to win over the American way of thinking.Thier is alot of animosity towards GM,some of it justified,some not. I dont want to lose my job. Just getting worried and it bothers me how ANTI GM alot of the country has become. I know I may sound anti gm but I am not,I am just frustrated in how Toyota and Hondas have taken over.In the 90’s,Chevys slogan was “The Heartbeat of America”…..you couldnt keep people out of the showrooms,people were into it….now…..its no heartbeat,its…..life support. You know how Saturn claims “Rethink American”???? How come Chevy does not do that??? You would also be surprised how many people dont know Saturn is a GM car!!! Anyway these are some of my points. I hope GM can take back America again…..
“…designed on the 69 Camaro as the base at the very least if you were 16 in 1969 it means you were born in 53 that said you would be 55 years old. What old man is going to climb in and out of an monster like that.”
Dale,
The true target demographic for the Camaro is older men. I recently read an analysis that called the retro-Pony cars “mid-life crisis” cars. They are for people who see life passing them by and want one last chance to recapture a glimmer of their youth.
The truly successful men at mid-life will be buying Porsches, Ferraris, and ZR-1s and driving around with a trophy wife (or girlfriend) in the passenger seat. The owners of retro-Pony cars will be those who are less than successful, but who can still scrape together the lesser amount of cash it takes to make believe in a Camaro, Mustang, or Challenger.
Sheth had this to say: I think a “mild” hybrid midsize sedan is better than no hybrid offering in the segment.”
At what price? The Camry hybrid is about the same price as a Malibu hybrid and it’s a much more effective vehicle. Putting capital resources into a not particularly effective program doesn’t make a lot of sense. Better to put the money into a more effective small car.
What happened to the little front scoop they had on the prototype (like on the zo6). BTW, big screw up on the Volt. Too basic. The concept was much better.
noel:
I dont know how you define “taking over” but last time I checked GM sells considerably more vehicles than Toyota and FAR more vehicles than Honda in the US market. The marketshare loss is related to gas prices, some poor product decisions and the expansion of the Toyota and Honda lineups. When there was less competition all of the Big 3 had more marketshare. Toyota now competes in every single market that GM does and thus they have been able to increase their presence here. GM will never get back to its share of the 60s, 70s, 80s or 90s. In fact, no automaker in the US will be as prominent as GM was only 20 years ago due to the level of competition. I think Chevy is doing well and most of their struggles are related to the dramatic collapse of truck and SUV sales. Toyota is experiencing the same issues but trucks are a smaller proportion of Toyota sales so it hasn’t affected them to the same degree. As for Honda, their success is predicated on two vehicles- Civic and Accord. The Ridgeline, Element and the entire Acura lineup is doing poorly this year. Fortunately for HOnda the Accord and Civic are probably 70% of their total volume so until last month they were able to avoid the deep declines experienced by other brands. Last month their bread and butter vehicles dropped off just like the rest of their lineup and the results weren’t pretty.
The Camaro is superior to the Challenger so I don’t know why you seem to be in such awe of the Challenger. The Challenger is a decent car but its too large and its interior is no unique. The Camaro is lighter, more original and better handling. In addition it has a far superior base engine and superior fuel economy. I think the Camaro will be good enough to justify the 10 month delay relative to the Challenger.
Well..I think its a hot looking car..5 years late. Thats what I think. But I think will sell..for a while..just like the other Camaros did. Its always been known that you cant be a leader if your a follower..and thats exactly what GM has done in this instance. Its just too late, and the money would have been better invested in another Electric -Hybrid car..at least somwhat of a greener car. It would be nice if it had a hybrid option or even a setup like the Volt. I feel that every product GM is producing now or in the future had better be a solid hit..and what I mean by a solid hit is that it sells alot and makes the corporation money. People are only going to buy what they want, and I dont think this car is going to make GM alot of money because its not going to sell enough after the first year or so. Also, many people are nervous about GM serenading Chrysler, and many people are going to be turned off about GM buying Chryslers gas guzzling automotive manufacturing business. Another bad move on GM’s part..ask any finacial advisor.
Norman Conquest,
When you actually read into demos, you realize the retro-oldie logic is heavily flawed. There aren’t many teens who can afford (or have the credit score to borrow) a $26,000 automobile. Who buys new vehicles for the teenage and college-age drivers?
The parents.
How old are the parents? Typically, in the mid-forties to low-sixties. Thus the demo argument is explained.
According to a J.D. Power study for 2008 vehicle purchases, the Audi R8 had the largest Baby Boomer buyer demo at 72%. The Chevrolet Corvette did have a high rate at 62%, but that was less than the Mazda MX-5. No retro work made the list.
Re: Norman, The true target market shouldn’t be the 50’s and above male as you stated, GM did miss the mark large.
Few reasons why 1st 10-15 years down the road they will be in there 70’s which means in there lifetime probably will only be buying 2-3 more vehicles. That said the Camaro is so far off base. It should be like I said based on the 80’s generation as they are the cars of people in there mid to late 30’s have a fair amount of money drove 5.0 Mustangs, Irocs and GTA’s in high school or wanted one. Now driving BMW’s, Subaru’s and Evo’s. That’s the reason why it should be based on the 82-92 body style. Example my main friends in school had a 5.0 Mustang, a Z28, 2 Trans am’s and 2 Z24’s now we drive 2 BMW’s, an Audi, 2 Subaru’s including mine. Plus we will continue to buy till we are 75 years old so have another 45 years of purchasing power. Besides the Astra and G8 there is nothing cool in GM’s line up. Bring back the 80’s Firebird and I will buy one in a second till then let grampa have his 69 Camaro and I will continue buying Subaru’s
Sheth,
Thanks,you comments are always informative. I do know Chevy is selling…and I do realize every car manufacturers sales are way down. I guess I was just angry the other day. Lol. Since I work at a Chevy dealer since 1986,its bothers me how GM lost its hold. Everywhere I drive lately is a sea of imports.It bothers me because it directly affects my wallet and my source of income since I work for a Chevy dealer.Its slow now,business everywhere is awful so I have super stressed lately.
As far as the Camaro goes,it is nice and I do like it…….my opinion(and we are all different) is that:
1. It should have been out in 2005 with the Mustang
2. For my tastes,I prefer the looks of the Challenger….It follows the same lines more as the 70 Challenger more closely. Now when we actually get one in and I can look at the Camaro closer in person,I may feel different. Having owned many 1969 Camaros,I guess I expected the new one to look the old one more….like the Mustang and Challenger do. But again,thats my preference and again when I can actually see one in here at the dealer,I probably will change my mind.
But…….It really should have been out already……..
Let’s face it: The Camaro is one of those “Hey look at me” cars for the demographic that can’t afford a Porsche, Ferrari, Lotus, AC Shelby Cobra, or ZR-1.
Noel:
It is pointless to argue about when the Camaro “should” have been on the market. I think you know GM didnt have a suitable platform for the Camaro until Zeta so its silly at this point to say the Camaro should have been on sale in 2005. The Mustang is based on a watered down version of the RWD platform that used to underpin the Lincoln LS and Thunderbird. As we all know the Mustang never went out of production. The F body cars were outdated and GM had no modern RWD platform ready when those cars were at the end of their life span. GM was doing better in 2005 than they are now so I would argue the Camaro is needed more now that it was 3 years ago, especially now that people are moving towards cars and away from SUVs.
As for styling I dont think most people want a 2010 car that is a dead ringer for a 1969 car. The Challenger is a nice vehicle in many ways but the automotive press has already pronounced the Camaro to be superior based on samples of pre-production models. I think its undeniable than the Camaro will have better powertrains and handling than the Challenger.
CharlieH,
You neglected to mention that the Malibu hybrid is about the same cost as a well equipped 6 or Accord or Altima and gets significantly better mileage than any of those cars. The camry does better in city mileage but is dead even on the highway.
On the GM inside news site they have a picture of a 2010 Firebird in Black being that all Firebird info has been independent drawing not actual GM info or photos. Is this picture real? If so that car destroys the new Camaro for looks even though little changes would actually have to be made. Please tell me it is real. Google 2010 Trans Am images to see this photo
charlie:
While the Malibu hybrid is only $500 or so cheaper than the camry hybrid it does come with more standard equipment such as 17″ wheels, XM radio, Onstar and stability control. Comparably equipped it’s likely $2k cheaper than the camry hybrid.
“There aren’t many teens who can afford (or have the credit score to borrow) a $26,000 automobile.”
Agree
“Who buys new vehicles for the teenage and college-age drivers? The parents.”
Not the parents I know. Perhaps in your world. Where do you live? Grosse Point, Kenilworth, Palm Beach, Beverly Hills, Westchester?
Interesting post in the New York Times about the new Camaro which GM showed to East Coast journalists recently at a state park in New York State. Original Camaro meets the next generation
Well, I don’t think that GM have too hard a time selling these Camaros, at least at first. There seems to be enough pent-up demand, although it’s hard to say how long that will last.
Of greater concern are (1) GM’s financial health, which is rapidly deteriorating, and (2) the ability of GM to stick with something longer than a few years. Rumors abound today on the auto blogs that the G8 and Solstice are all but dead after the current models run their course. If true, that’s sad, but not surprising. As always, everything that is good is killed off….only to be regenerated years down the road as if starting all over again. No heritage is built…..how much did GM fans have to beg just to get this new Camaro, and how long will it last before it’s cancelled (if the G8 goes away, what’s the future for the also-Zeta Camaro?) Of course, fixing #1 would probably fix #2, but I’m not holding my breath.
So I am curious…is it true that GM will discontinue the G8 and the Solstice? Is Pontiac dead? There is no G6 redesign on the horizon, either. So sad, man, so sad.
Eric P
“Let’s face it: The Camaro is one of those “Hey look at me” cars for the demographic that can’t afford a Porsche, Ferrari, Lotus, AC Shelby Cobra, or ZR-1.”
Which is about 90% of the car buying public. I still think Pontiac should get a new Trans-Am along with this as well. Also, where is the Z28? All I see are the base car in two trim levels, and the SS. Best spend some cash developing this car and forget the trunk-less wonder car, a.k.a Solstice/Sky. The Camaro and Firebird make better sense in ‘bang for your buck’ terms than roadsters that can carry two people but not their bags.
Both Ford and Chrysler beat GM to market with their retro coupes. How did GM let this happen ?
I am rooting for GM because I honestly think they have the most potential, however, I am very concerned that GM will run out of cash prior to the inevitable car market turnaround.
“I think its undeniable than the Camaro will have better powertrains and handling than the Challenger.”
Sheth,
That may be true, but what does that prove, and will it be worth anything? The current depressed cost of gasoline is only a temporary blip. We’re looking at a world where fuel will become more and more expensive. People aren’t going to be cruising around in their “Hey, look at me” cars demonstrating their superior handling and powertrains — their priorities will be such that they will have to drastically adjust what is important to them, and driving a retro-pony car will be far down the priority list.
Why did they limit the stripe colors? I was sure the orange sstripes would be available for the white body color
Well Ed,
I went online and downloaded the .pdf of the Camaro. It was all looking good until I came across the optional stereo. Boston Acoustics? Why did you guys go with a POS stereo like Boston Acoustics? With a classic like the Chevy Camaro, why put a junk brand that is associated with Mopar products like the Chrysler Sebring, Dodge Avenger, Dodge Charger, Dodge Magnum, Dodge Caliber, Jeep Commander, Jeep Grand Cherokee, and Jeep Compass? That’s like trying to mix oil and water – it just doesn’t work. Keep that Mopar junk outta my Chevy.
I’m sure you can thank your beancounters for this cheap-o radio. No thanks – I’ll pass unless you get this fixed before production starts. Boston Acoustics is a bad joke and does not belong in the Camaro.
“I’m sure you can thank your beancounters for this cheap-o radio. No thanks – I’ll pass unless you get this fixed before production starts. Boston Acoustics is a bad joke and does not belong in the Camaro.”
Good point, but can’t you order w/o any stereo and install a really good, top-of-the-line after market sound system? The stuff that comes with the cars is usually far overpriced, and as you point out, often not very good.
norman,
Have you seen the mileage estimates for the Camaro V6? They are better than or equal to any 6 cylinder coupe on the market. Instead of crticizing pony cars in general for being inefficient we should actually look at the EPA numbers. 27mpg on the highway is as good as any foreign sports coupe. Why would the Camaro the wrong car for the times if the same doesn’t apply to the G37, 370Z or 335i?
Why on earth can’t I have the Camaro SS in any shade of blue???
I don’t want to come across as negative though, I really love how the 5th gen Camaro has turned out. Even the V6 should be a good performer. I really look forward to seeing these on the road.
Ed,
The 2010 Camaro is absolutely the coolest looking car I have seen. I saw the concept at the 2008 St. Louis auto show and fell in love. I am planning to place an order for an SS version within the next couple of weeks (Cyber Gray). Who says a forty something year old can’t have fun. I was holding off until 2011 to buy a Volt but have decided to go ahead and get the Camaro. I will buy a Volt when they come out and will keep the Camaro as my weekend fun car.
Excellent Job!!! You have a winner on your hands.
The Camaro is a great car and declining oil prices shoulod help/ I am writing to say that I support a GM bailout but vigorously oppose the proposed merger with Chrysler. The Chrysler brands will disappear and GM could well end up being controlled by Cerberus in the future . Get the baiolout money but dont spend it on the aquisition of Chrysler. GM is too big to fail so wou dont need Chrysler.
Jim Gentry said: “The 2010 Camaro is absolutely the coolest looking car I have seen.”
Jim,
That must mean you’ve never seen an AC Shelby Cobra. You really should expand your horizons.
Can anyone explain to me why the new Camaro does not offer the Hugger Orange as a color? Instead they offer inferno orange which is BRONZE and not ORANGE.
I would appreciate anyones ideas as to why,
Thanks
“Can anyone explain to me why the new Camaro does not offer the Hugger Orange as a color? Instead they offer inferno orange which is BRONZE and not ORANGE.”
No I can’t Bill.
In this day an age of the Internet and customization, you ought to be able to order a car in any color you want. After all, anyone can go to Home Depot and buy paint for their living rooms that comes in thousands (perhaps tens of thousands) of shades, tints, and hues. Auto body shops can also mix any color you want.
GM ought to be able to offer the same for their cars ~ especially a faux sports car like the Camaro. They should at least be as adept at painting a car in whatever color a consumer wants as is “Eddy’s Body and Fender” over on the east side of town next to the feedlot.
It’s understandable why Buicks come only in dull, uninspiring colors such as pewter, gray, and champagne bronze, but GM should offer real choices to the people who want Camaros.
Gary Dikkers said “That must mean you’ve never seen an AC Shelby Cobra. You really should expand your horizons.”
Right, because everyone has the exact same taste as you. Oh, and nice job insulting him about what he has and hasn’t experienced. You have no idea what his horizons are.
Tim,
Sorry about that, I didn’t mean it as an insult. You’re right, there is no question taste is a subjective, individual matter.
I just found it strange that of the thousands of different cars that have ever been designed, someone would say the new Camaro was absolutely the “coolest looking car ever.”
While taste is subjective, I think most would agree the Camaro — while nice enough — is not the coolest looking ever, and that people should look further than the Chevy dealer down the street when deciding which car might be worthy of holding that title.
My apologies to Jim Gentry.
I am sure that dealers would be willing to sell all of their Camaros for MSRP, if consumers would agree to pay MSRP for all vehicles in their new vehicle lineup! If we want to use MSRP as a guide on hot new intro vehicles, we should be willing to use it on all of the vehicles…Should we not? Or should we let the principles of supply and demand prevail? I wonder if all of the people that complain about “price” gouging understand that somebody had to say “Yes” before there was a “meeting of the minds” and thus a car deal…
“If we want to use MSRP as a guide on hot new intro vehicles, we should be willing to use it on all of the vehicles…Should we not? If we want to use MSRP as a guide on hot new intro vehicles, we should be willing to use it on all of the vehicles…Should we not? Or should we let the principles of supply and demand prevail?”
Why have any MSRP at all then?
Let dealers park new cars on their lots with no price information and wait until a customer comes along and either asks how much the dealer wants, or makes an offer. It would be like a Turkish Bazaar. Let the haggling go on until both parties agree on a mutual price. Sometimes the dealer would come out ahead, sometimes the customer depending on bargaining skill and how many cars the dealer still needs to move that month.
But, if car companies are going to set an MSRP for a car, the dealers should have to sell the car for no more than that.
Anyone know what would happen to Camaro orders if GM dies. Would it really mean the Camaro would never arrive? If GM does die, talk about values on Corvette’s going up. I’d think the car would become an instant collectable because of it’s technology vs value.
I’m saddened by the possibly loss of GM to bankruptcy. Perhaps their vendors might realize they can save their own businesses by slashing prices to supply. What will come of the Camaro? That’s the one car I would have most certainly ordered. (Convert LS3 in orange)
Love to hear any insight.
I think the Camaro is a nice looking car and the price isn’t bad either…but why wait until 2010 to debut the Camero? What was the last year in which a new model for the Camaro was released? GM should push the Camaro out, people are anticipating it’s arrival, it may help with the slow sales.
One last question….where is the v8 engine for speed and power?
Hello Ladies and Gentlemen:
An observation concerning the future release of the new Camero. The car is way cool and should appeal to many of the American auto enthusiasts. Having said that, may I make a suggestion?
As most of us already know, the days of the gas guzzling huge V8’s are over. The thought of placing a V6 in a car that looks like a Camero, is close to revolting; having said all that my idea. In many people’s mind (and mine) your all aluminum inline 6 cylinder (Vortec 4.2 liter) has reached the pinnacle of modern internal combustion engines. This engine is made for rear wheel drive vehicles and is being currently (under)produced by GM. This engine would put the correct kind of excitement back into the “muscle” car. State-of-the art engine technology in a rear drive sporty car, very exciting, a souped up sedan V6, not so much.
I’m sure the bean counting boyz at GM can offer a hundred reasons why this could never happen; however I for one, would buy a new Camero, if and only if, it had the Vortec engine. Buy the way, I’m an old guy and probably one of the few folks on this website, that could actually spend 30k for a new car.
Thanks for letting me ramble on.
Mike
Mike,
I can understand your thought of not wanting a V8, but the 4.2L I6 is getting up there in age and is hardly state-of-the-art. The 3.6L V6 they are offering is a much better engine. It has DOHC and direct injection that makes over 300HP (compared to about 275 for the Vortech) and most likely gets better milage.
Oh, and spelling CamAro CamEro is revolting : )
I sincerely hope the Camero is successful. I must say that it looks great although similar to the Challenger. After a 20 uear absence, I have come back to GM, now driving an HHR 2LT. I love it. What I don’t love are the Chevy Dealer’s service departments. They need to spend time at Honda Dealers and learn how to treat customers. Chevy Dealer’s service departments are killing GM. If I didn’t have a fabulous independent mechanic I would never have purchased the HHR. But I digress…I wish GM success with the new Camero and once it has been out for a couple of years and the “bugs” are worked out, I will buy one.
The last thing GM needs is a new Camaro or ZR-1 Corvette… specialty vehicle. Too late for the party. Mustang has already used up every variation of a Mustang that they or anyone else has ever made. Now the 2010 is like watching them build a 1971 Mustang. We’re done. Been there, had the Boss 302 and 429 and Mach 1 and Shelby… and bored with the new one. Only people loyal to GM will even look at the new Camaro. ZR-1 Corvette? Used up and wore out all the other RPOs? Stick to a name and improve it, don’t use it up and then try to resurrect it later. You destroyed Oldsmobile with stupid names. You’re doing a bangup job now with dumb letters for Cadillacs that none of us can remember or differentiate from each other, that have no bearing on what the vehicle is (imitating Volvo here). You bring a coupe here from Australia and alienate the GTO fans by putting a GTO badge on it (and no one buys coupes now, if you haven’t noticed) when you should have brought the 4 door M5 killer version instead, which you finally did, now that the party’s over. You still make utes (big and small) all over the world and can’t get us one. All you give us is monster trucks. You make 49 MPG Malibus (Opel/Vauxhall) in Europe, but we get 31 MPG Malibus.
So WHY should we have any confidence you can fix your problems?????