The Case for GM - Bob Lutz On Closing the Quality Gap
Vice Chairman Bob Lutz discusses the high quality of today’s GM cars and trucks – and issues a unique challenge to compare our vehicles to our competitors’ – in today’s installment of our “The Case for GM” video series. As always, please let us know your thoughts and check back regularly for responses from our execs and other members of our team. You can find a transcript of Bob’s video here. - Christopher Barger, Director, Global Communications Technology
- Posted in Bob Lutz, The Case for GM
Gerard
The improvements in panel fit and paint are faintly noticed. Now that I look at it, GM’s work in these areas has indeed improved. Mr. Lutz’s point about quality and pleasure is a valid one. The General has been haunted by past errors: I recall in the ’90s when the family van, brand new, had to keep going back to the dealership because the electronic sliding door malfunctioned so often.
I haven’t seen a similar technical problem come up yet in any of the recent GM products friends or family presently own. In fact, there seems to be an aura of simplicity in and around them. I have a couple of good friends who love their Toyotas (one a Prius, the other a Scion), but have had a couple of tech matters come up. If you carefully read long-term road tests for popular class-leaders, such as the Honda Accord, you’ll find a number of issues come up as well. There comes a point when you add too much, and creates a recipe for problems–for driver and builder alike.
There is the media perception, however, that certain nationalities can have overlooked faults because their qualities outshine. For the Germans, it’s status in luxury and performance. For the Japanese, it’s the impression of technological sophistication and dependability. Even when a domestic manufacturer may have a product that leads in all these areas, it will be hard to overcome established (and often uneducated) biases in the press.
I can imagine the general press remarking highly on the new Camaro’s styling; then, there would by a now-common routine with the expected remark about GM being out of touch with green attitudes. They’ll ignore that the base Camaro engine offers as much power as Ford’s mid-range V-8, with better mileage. This is what the General has to contend with, and it must outflank cynics as much as possible. I think GM management’s effort to communicate directly with the public is wonderful and part of a bigger picture of gradual (and sometimes painful) progress.
Sheth
Excellent work there. I’m sure you wont get many emails from people accepting your challenge. I have noticed that the fit and finish on current GM products is better than many Toyota and Nissan products. Naturally, this is never mentioned in media reviews even though subpar fit and finish observed on a GM product would be grounds for a whole paragraph. One by one the reasons for supposed superiority of foreign products is being challenged and now the press often has to stretch to support their narrative about inferior American vehicles. They used to talk about things like design, powertrain sophistication and panel gaps but now they are down to things like the softness of plastics at the bottom of the console or the sound or feel of a control stalk. I believe from a design and build quality perspective GM’s products are more akin to European products than Japanese products.
Phil
Now all you have to do is resist the urge to PRICE YOURSELVES INTO OLDSMOBILIZATION.
(SHUTDOWN)! As I complained loudly in a prior post, you already want to raise prices on coming products.
In fact, I looked and saw that your Chevy base prices are already higher than Honda’s Civic/Accord for Cobalt and Malibu. This has always been the problem at GM. As soon as things look a little favorable, you jack up prices and wind up losing money on massive incentives when the public balks on you in the long run. You must EARN the right to premium pricing, over many years, and with the same-old bogus looking front end on the Cobalt, it looks like much less of a value to returning shoppers. As I perused the Chevy website, everything looked overpriced! What happens when the new Honda Civic comes out??
Internet shoppers will go elsewhere, and when the Cruze arrives with even higher pricing, it won’t have the market penetration it should command. Why is Malibu’s base price suddenly over $22,000???
You can build quality cars all you want, but if you aren’t willing to drum it into people’s heads in
a total-media blitz that lasts for more than two years, no one will believe you. If you keep bringing out
cars like G5 and G3 after saying you won’t badge-engineer anymore, what credibility do you expect to have? There’s not just a PERCEPTION GAP, there’s a REALITY GAP based on all products dating up to the 2006 model year, and a resulting PEER-PRESSURE GAP that spans 3 entire
GENERATIONS of Americans. That’s what you have to deal with. BREAK IT.
Using the same style, media breadth, and power you used to promote ‘employee pricing’ , you should be introducing a new Quality Message, and reintroducing Value Pricing, especially on big trucks and SUVs, so that cost-conscious American women will consider you again.
For men, it literally will take hiring Jerry Bruckheimer or Jason Bay to make high-action adrenaline-pumping commercials that drive home the point of GM superiority in an in-your-face chest-thumping
idiom. GO WATCH ‘ARMAGEDDON’ RIGHT NOW, and feel the charge you get after you watch it,
and how it makes you feel as the American flag is waving. It is fiction, but people CAN feel that way about GM again, if you deliver some peer-pressure of your own.
They reward you by buying up options because they feel more comfortable standing on a platform of great VALUE, rather than suspicious because the price is higher than the HONDA OR TOYOTA, etc that all their friends say is a better car… Let’s rid ourselves of those CASH incentives now, so that when the market comes back up people will no longer be looking for them all the time, especially on quantum leap models you will be introducing.
I shouldn’t have to seek out ‘The Case for GM’. It should be dinner table conversation!!!
GM gets it right only 45% of the time, and you need to reach 85% over the next couple of years.
Otherwise, you’re going down in flames. The goverment gave you a boost just now. Use it to
blow away all expectations in green, inexpensive transportation. DO NOT TELL ANYONE ABOUT THESE ACHIEVEMENTS UNTIL THEY ARE 3 MONTHS FROM PRODUCTION. Keep out reporters
and swear all suppliers and employees to secrecy under heavy penalty for breach.
Let’s go BOB!!!
Edward Hayes
Bob,
And that’s why the ones that complain about America quality are the ones that own an import or have not driven a domestic car for years. The quality in my H3 and the look and feel of the controls and instrument panel are as good as my brother’s new Honda Accord. This is a truck mind you, and I guarentee you, he says he has no problem in the snow, but I guarentee you that every time it snows he has at least a little regret that he could be driving a 4 wheel drive, and drive it for a lot less.
Now keeping the Hummer looking spotless I could use your help. The bulging fender flares over the wheel wells are impossible to keep clean. The knicks and dings multiply, can GM put a thin film or something over the forward area to protect the paint and finish to keep it looking new?
Congratulations on the H3T, that vehicle is a dream come true, I am so glad it survived the turmoil and I can’t wait for that vehicle to succeed beyond GM’s wildest dreams. Congratulations also on the new Chevy Traverse and can’t wait to see the Pontiac ST.
I keep forgetting the most wonderful thing about GM and it’s 8 brands, you always have something, fresh, something new, something exciting, and something perfect for everyone every single year. You definately would not have all these exciting new vehicles coming if you only had 2 stale and dried up brands.
Thanks Bob, and I will keep bragging to everyone about GM, I boast no about myself, but about the company that everyone should know makes the best vehicles at the best value, period.
And this, I think everyone should know - this amazing company they have in their own backyard.
Doug
I agree on the panel fits being better. Keep it up. My 2008 Enclave has some body panel fit issues that are not as good as the Japanese and Germans and the dealer is unable to correct them. Keep up the hard work, and inspect the quality in (short term) if you cannot build it it.
SteveG
Tell that to my Cobalt’s steering. And my mother’s 2006 Impala’s.
My car seat is collapsing, just out of warranty.
I’m not seeing any of that superb quality on either car.
David
All one needs to do is look at the Toyota Tundra and the glowing reviews this truck got vs it’s real-world performance to see that there’s some bias and myopia when it comes to Japanese (in particular Toyota) products. The vehicle has numerous shortcomings in chassis stiffness and body quality (tailgate issues) and the interior is inexcuseably cheap. It’s not just a little short of the Silverado/Sierra here; it’s short of the GMT800 Silverado/Sierra.
motorman
the problem that GM has to overcome is when there was a problem like the V-6 intake gaskets they never issued a call back or offered a extended warranty and it took a law suit for anything to get done. i know of some people who had several different cars over the years repaired because GM left this same problem go on for years. owners like my self who do not put a lot of miles on a car per year have these problems after the warranty time is over and must pay out of our pockets for the repair. with the new GM warranty of 5 years and 100,000 miles will help with this problem.
Euroclydon
“This is a truck mind you…”
“Now keeping the Hummer looking spotless I could use your help…”
Sorry, but I can’t help noticing the disparity between these two statements. Real truck owners buy trucks because they have to do tough, heavy, demanding jobs. People doing “real truck things” (ranchers, contractors, etc.) worry about whether their truck can get the job done, not whether their truck is spotless.
Blue Wing
Lutz said: “And then go to your local German prestige car dealer, pick any of the three brands, or your local Japanese prestige car dealer, and take the same little gap gauge with you, and start measuring gaps on those. And then send me an e-mail and tell me who’s got the most precise body fits.”
No doubt that is true, or you wouldn’t throw out that challenge.
Body fit is important, but there is a lot more to quality than body fit. Just as important (if not more so) is durability, reliability, plus ease and cost of maintenance. And those are questions you didn’t address.
Let me throw out a personal challenge to you: Have you ever changed the oil and belts on one of the new Malibus, and if so, how long did it take you? Did you need any special tools, or is it possible with the tools an average guy might find in his garage?
One more question: If the quality is so good, why haven’t you backed that up with a better, more comprehensive warranty?
Al
I think the Quality gap is closing, but GM is still a follower, not a leader (and it’s not just quality, more of a quality / design combo). One of my biggest beefs has always been the key fob - I used to ask GM drivers to show me their key fob and then joke with them about how they drove a Delphi - what’s a Delphi? (Sarcasm about how the key fob had no brand identity or marking other than the supplier that made the key fob - Delphi). I was thrilled to see Bob address this in a video he did a few years ago that specifically talked about the GM key fob and how it lacked the design / quality / style that other companies offered.
My only concern now is that it has taken a long time for GM to come through with stylish new key fobs, even with Bob personally backing the idea. I have seen some of the fobs for GM’s future product (Switchblade style) - but I want to caution GM devotees that before they get too excited about this - take a look at what other manufacturers offer. This key fob is a near identical copy of what VW (and others) have been selling for years. I know, I had a 2003 VW Golf and the GM key fob I saw is almost identical, (my guess is it’s probably the same supplier). The sad part is it’s actually cheaper feeling too, bit lighter, doesn’t click as nicely when opened, etc. So while you may think “this is amazing - Wow, check out the key fob - how can anyone not buy this new GM car? I think, “hmmm. seen it before, reminds me of my old Golf - I loved that car - wonder what Audi and VW are selling now?” Why would GM benchmark something from a 2000 series, entry level compact for their upcoming premium products? Some will mistake my comments for Euro-snobbery - it’s not - it’s a 10 year Quality Gap!
GM doesn’t need to close the gap, they need to eliminate it? GM needs to be a leader, an innovator. Stop buying off the shelf designs from your suppliers - bring the design back in house. Don’t benchmark your competitor’s product - set the bar way above it. Make sure your product doesn’t just “Wow” the regular GM customer - it has to “Wow” the competitor’s driver! The Volt appears to be a step in the right direction - make sure that philosophy is applied to everything - even something as simple as a key fob.
Gereon (Germany)
“Body fit is important, but there is a lot more to quality than body fit…”
Blue Wing, regarding that statement I agree with you. German brands like Volkswagen or Audi repeatedly gain praise for their admittedly excellent fit-and-finish, but at the same time those prestigious (high-price) brands show just mediocre or even poor performances, when it comes to the JD Power-dependability-study.
At the same time I am wondering about your statement regarding the Malibu. Nowadays it’s always challenging to maintain or repair a modern vehicle at home, in your garage. You simply can’t compare cars of today with my 1977 Opel Rekord, which I am owning as a vintage-vehicle. BTW, I wouldn’t do repair-jobs on a brandnew car. At least here in Europe you’d loose warranty, if you’d do such things on your own. In any case, GM’s warranty in the US is vastly better than any warranty of a European manufacturer over here.
Blue Wing
“I wouldn’t do repair-jobs on a brand new car. At least here in Europe you’d loose warranty, if you’d do such things on your own.”
Gereon,
Actually, few people will do things such as change their own oil, filters, and belts. But those types of things are “routine maintenance” and should never void a warranty.
When engineers design a car, they should also make those things easy to do. I’m afraid “ease of maintenance” is something that car makers no longer take into account when designing a car.
David
Blue Wing,
To your challenge; I have done both (belt and oil change) and it’s far EASIER on the Malibu than it is on most vehicles. It requires NO tools on any engine package that can’t be obtained at an Auto Zone, Pep Boys or Advance Auto. I could do both of your challenge jobs with nothing but a set of ramps and hand tools in under 40 minutes - no doubt about it. I could also check the transmission fluid; something that requires **special tools** on the VW and Audi. LoL!
Gereon (Germany)
“But those types of things are “routine maintenance” and should never void a warranty.”
Well, I am not quite sure, how the regulations are in the US, but at least here in Germany, your service-booklet has to be completed by an authorized workshop at every scheduled maintenance(i.e. oil-changes, filter-replacements and similar). If you can’t prove, that you did attend all mandatory service-activities, the manufacturer basically could reject warranty-repairs. For example, in former times the French manufacturer Peugeot only granted corrosion-warranty, if the car did show up for those schedules inspections.
However, packed with all this technology of today, IMHO it’s difficult to design a car with easy access to all the mechanical or electrical components. To mention my Opel Rekord again, this car just has power-steering (which was very progressive for a German midsize-sedan of the 70s) and an automatic transmission. So you could imagine how well-arranged its engine-compartment looks.
Blue Wing
“I have done both (belt and oil change) and it’s far EASIER on the Malibu than it is on most vehicles. It requires NO tools on any engine package that can’t be obtained at an Auto Zone, Pep Boys or Advance Auto.”
David,
I’m happy to hear that. Now I wonder if GM designed that into the Malibu; whether it’s serendipity; or if you are just really, really good.
I hope the answer is that GM actually thought of ease of maintenance when they designed the car.
Cheers~
David
Gereon,
In the US it’s basically Illegal for a dealer to force you to come to his shop for maintenance to keep the warranty, and it’s also Illegal to deny coverage to an obviously maintained vehicle. If the vehicle hasn’t had oil changes or some other maintenance it will be clear from the condition of the parts. Most places in the US don’t have any form of vehicle inspection unlike Germany where every vehicle has to be inspected by an authorized inspection station periodically.
David
Blue Wing,
Ease of maintenance is always a consideration up to a point. If it compromises a superior design then it’s not going to get precedence but cost of ownership (maintenance is part of that) is important in the overall vehicle package and GM does take that into consideration. It’s rare that a maintenance item would get trumped by engineering to the point that it would severely degrade serviceabilty. Part of vehicle quality is being able to say a car is easy to maintain so that it can be used reliably and economically for the entire ownership experience. A vehicle that is easy to repair has lower warranty costs because a dealer has to be paid for doing these repairs- difficult repairs are more expensive than easy ones and it’s in GM’s best interest to make a car easier to fix and maintain.
David
Blue wing,
It’s part of the design.
For example - Trapped belts (something that has been done in the past) is something that we would not accept. A trapped belt is one that requires that the engine/transmission be supported so that the belt can be removed and replaced because there’s an engine mount in the middle of the loop of the serpentine belt. Trapped belts drive warranty cost and cause customer dissatisfaction because they can’t be changed without a floor jack (to support the powertrain) and more elaborate hand tools.
Spill paths from oil drains and filters are another example - oil should not drain all over the exhaust or frame - and it does not on the Malibu. These things are designed in and people are responsible for pointing out these items so that they don’t turn into headaches for dealers and customers later on.
Blue Wing
“Part of vehicle quality is being able to say a car is easy to maintain so that it can be used reliably and economically for the entire ownership experience. A vehicle that is easy to repair has lower warranty costs because a dealer has to be paid for doing these repairs- difficult repairs are more expensive than easy ones and it’s in GM’s best interest to make a car easier to fix and maintain.”
Mighty fine, mighty fine ~ that obviously makes sense. (Perhaps too much sense for a major car company?) Glad to hear that, but that does sound like a change from past GM philosophy. I own an older GMC truck and one has to be an acrobat and have double-jointed elbows just to change the spark plugs.
I know what you mean about those “trapped” belts. You mean after all these years GM finally figured out that wasn’t a “good thing?” I thought perhaps you did it to drive up the maintenance cost we had to pay dealers.
I always liked the philosophy the Russians used when designing their MiG jet fighters. They design them to be maintained by farm boys with nothing more than a few standard wrenches and screwdrivers.
Gereon (Germany)
Hi David,
thank you very much for your rich explanations. As it seems, there’s much more freedom for US-customers concerning that matter. Regarding Blue Wing’s first comment, as he criticized GM’s warranty, I still have to grin. It’s not a long time ago, as a lousy 2-years warranty was all, what German manufacturers granted to their customers over here, despite of their supposedly high-quality-reputation. That’s something, as I believe, would have been absolutely unacceptable in America. In the meanwhile, some manufacturers provide an extended warranty, partly for charge of a few hundred Euros. So far Opel belongs to the most generous manufacturers, offering a free-of-charge 4-years extension, meaning, that you normally shouldn’t have to worry about high repair-costs for 6 years.
Gerard
I’d like to add to Phil’s complaint about pricing. Pricing is a major dilemma for the General. I have a relative who is a courier and loves the HHR. He did not welcome the price hike to $18,000, however. His belief was that the HHR was a retro-styled economy hatch. The price jump can’t be overlooked: the HHR base price in 2006 was $15,900; it now stands $2,000 more. His position is that if he goes forward with an HHR purchase, it’ll be a low-mileage used example.
That’s a sale lost. This was from a Toyota convert, as well. This is one of the problems that prevents GM from securing ground in key market segments. I couldn’t agree with Phil’s overpricing complaint anymore. It’s hard to sympathize with the General’s troubles when it just jacks up the price in such a short time. The idea is to undercut the Japanese, not provide them with more ammo. Prices are going to rise, of course. But such a jump is noticeable in the economy segment.
This was an unwise act on management’s part, and this is a problem for Chrysler, as well. The new Challenger generated some rare positive press. But dealer markups totaling $20,000 over the SRT-8’s suggested retail price have left many units untouched. What was at first seen as a “sell-out,” has now turned into another fiasco–due to overpricing. I think GM should do all it can to prevent the Camaro from falling victim to that fate.
kgm777
Hello Bob,
I’m sure you remember as well as I the horrendous fit and finish of the then newly-restyled 1965 Chevy Impala/Caprice 4 door hardtops and equivalent Pontiac models (the Cadillacs had better workmanship but were still not immune from these gaffes). The B pillar especially had gaps and spaces in the seals through which daylight could be seen in most examples. And the exterior sheetmetal panel fit was a joke. Today’s GM cars are very competitive in fit and finish, but some of the interior materials still need to be upgraded to effectively compete with, say, a Lexus ES, or even Toyota’s Avalon. Although the IP in the DTS is soft-feel and padded below the wood grained surface, but the Lucerne has a cheap-feeling hard plastic piece that goes the full width of the dash (except for the seats, which feel much more substantial and comfortable in the DTS, the two cars are very similar). I feel the full-size Caddy and Buick could use some of the upgrade treatment used on the CTS and Malibu. I know money is very tight now, but is there a plan to refresh and further refine these cars in the future? I really like my ‘07 DTS, but it’s the only Caddy I’ll consider after driving the others, and the ’09s have only very minor changes. I would consider the Buick, but I prefer the service at Cadillac dealerships. Thank you.
Ken
Josh Oliver
Mr. Lutz,
I have to say that I am impressed with GM’s quality gains over the past few years but I (as a die hard GM owner, purchaser, and lessee) have encountered a few problems over the years.
More notably my ‘06 Solstice has had to have the passenger side cup holder (the one that ‘pops’ out) replaced several times. My passenger door lock is no longer working and I have a blown driver door speaker. All of these issues are correctable and I’m happy with that, however I’m not pleased with the fact that my issues are all correctable on the Solstice.
What makes me happy as a GM owner/consumer/former employee is the satisfaction that I can take my vehicle to Jim Causley Pontiac/GMC Truck with the good faith and understanding that not only will my vehicle be serviced by professionals but that my issues will be addressed in a quick, timely and I be shown the utmost respect and courtesy.
I’m a firm believer that GM can make up many of its quality short comings (or perceived short comings) by having a more customer focused dealer body to handle customer complaints and issues. Every quality issue I ever had with my Solstice has been erased by my satisfaction and respect shown at the dealership.
GM must realize that “front line employees” (dealership folk) are at the utmost top of their game and understand that the buck TRULY stops with them when it comes to quality issues and/or concerns.
Thanks,
Josh
Gereon (Germany)
Hi Gerard,
interesting comment so far, but at the same time it shouldn’t be overlooked, how relatively inexpensive vehicles still are in the USA compared to Europe. To look at your example HHR: 18′000 USD = 13′260 Euros. In Germany the HHR (LT) starts at 22′990 Euros = 31′207 USD. Next example: A comparable Opel (Saturn) Astra (3 doors) starts in the US at 19′490 USD (= 14′358 Euros), over here at about 28′570 USD (= 21′000 Euros). Even the large Pontiac G8 with all its V8-thunder is cheaper than a well-equipped Volkswagen Golf over here. Be aware, that by far not all we Germans have high incomes, making it easy to afford such prices. So, many vehicles (even the majority) here are company-cars, privately leased or purchased with a loan-agreement.
That’s nothing new: The basic law of economy is, that the request for a certain product has decisive impact on its price. Due to the move from SUV’s and Trucks to cars in your country, the conditions have changed dramatically. As profits for those types of vehicles have been fading, GM and other manufacturers have to increase the prices on their (small and midsize) cars to run their business in a viable way. I do believe, that the relatively negligible market for (real) SUV’s and Trucks in Europe is a reason for the relatively high sticker-prices for cars, in comparison to the US. How else should European manufacturers get profits out of their compact- and midsize-car business?
Don’t get me wrong: Of course I don’t want to downplay the financial worries of numerous American families. I just wanted to describe the situation about cars and their prices from a different perspective.
John
Corvette has been going up in price and the age group of buyers up with it. We need to offer a model to bring the vette back down to a new market share its a great value!
I fear that a great product could be lost if vision for the future is not in the plan!
Driving a vette is its greatest sale gimick! the car is great on gas too.
Corvette Johnny
edvard
To add to the comments about the ease or lack thereof in repairing or maintaining modern vehicles, to me this has less to do with technology and more so to do with layout and in many cases unnecessary cosmetic embellishments. For example, I own a 1996 Toyota Tacoma. It has a standard 3r-3z 4 cylinder engine. All of the service areas are easy to get at, easy to service, and if anything like the belts, water pump, starter, plugs, air filter, wires, alternator, or much anything else for that matter needs replacing, the engine has been laid out in such a way where I the repairman can easily access those components. In most cases, the brackets and hardware holding these pieces together are also positioned to be easily reached via conventional tools standing over the top of the engine.
This isn’t necessarily an ancient vehicle.It has electronic fuel injection, power steering, brakes, modern Evap and environmental controls. Yet everything is easy to service. At the same time however, my Grandmother has a 1997 Buick Lesabre. When you open the hood, all you see is a giant plastic cover. The plugs are all over the place, and if you have to change anything, some of the components are difficult to access.
Looking under the hood of most modern cars and trucks, the addition of engine shrouds and decoration seems to be more common. These are totally unnecessary additions. Look at it this way. A car that is easier to service meaning a GM repair facility could repair more cars quicker and more efficiently leading to higher consumer satisfaction and greater profits for individual dealers- whom at this point need every advantage they can get.
To be fair though, I have a 2002 Prius. Looking under the hood of this thing is scary. There are things in there that if touched incorrectly could give you a healthy jolt.
David
edvard,
To be fair; the 1997 Buick is a car that is now more than 12 years old and it’s equipped with an engine that goes back to the early 1960’s. Even so; changing spark plugs takes about 15 minutes and spark plug wires about an additional 20 minutes. The plastic cover is held on by the oil fill neck that simply twists off. The engine does have issues in that vehicle that wouldn’t be considered ideal but overall it’s a very easy package to work on.
John Rovner
No matter how good the quality has become GM cannot survive when you allow others to profit from you name, logos, trademarks and copyrights and publish in public forums and blogs pure incorrect statements such as
BREAKING NEWS] ZR1 production has stopped - model may have been canceled
http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109831
and here a salesman who profits from the success of your products making totally false claims and then attempts to backtrack what he already flooded the INTERNET with that cannot be taken back
http://www.corvetteconti.com/blog/?p=4848
Here you have a forum that not only recommends people take a new Corvette and yank smog devices off, install powertrain or drivetrain mods that induce failures but also give ways to fool dealers to then have GM pay for the damages but also put out nonsense as above about the ZR1 that was posted all over the world within 2 hours that the ZR1 was dead.
GM cannot look like a Quality company when vendors as above make junk of of new cars such as the Corvette and then those cars are traded off where the new buyers see is ill designed and low quality and believe GM was the cause.
GM has done little to protect their designs and quality by allowing vendors to degrade your products solely for their profit
Buddy Dean del Rio
“So, we shoot not only for absence of problems, but we especially shoot for a joyous owner experience. That’s one of the reasons we spend so much time on design and on vehicle dynamics and the way things feel and sound inside the car. “
Mr. Lutz,
You must realize that a so-called “joyous owner experience” also means a joyous dealer experience? No matter how fine your cars, GM’s dealer network often puts you in a hole.
You’ve been doing a pretty darn good job with product development, but is there anyone at GM Headquarters who pays as much attention to the development of quality GM dealers as you do to product?
The quality of your dealer network is just as important as the quality of your cars. Can you or Mr. Wagoner have the person responsible for the quality of your dealers address that issue on this blog as you have done for the quality of the cars?
Joe Hollander
Personally, I am not willing to pay a penny per week for gas more than I use to before the prices went up. It was 1.50, and now its 3.50, The Prius or something with the equal 45 mpg or greater is all I am willing to consider.
Your cars need to adjust to getting that much higher mpg.
Its not the price of the car, Its the price of Gas, I am not willing to pay any more for gas (period).
Alex
Bob makes a good case for Malibu quality as compared to the other vendors. Now if we go beyond the gap size and mechanical fit and finish, the other design factors like the driver experience and ergonomics become important. To give an example, I recently drove an Equinox. Although it was a mechanically good car, driving the car did not leave me with a very positive experience. The problems were rather simple things like the mushiness of the seats, a blinding map light that was switched from the rear seat, wide turning circle, no feedback on the gear selection in the instrument panel, etc. I think GM is definitely going in the right direction, but in order to stay in the leadership position, it has to pay more attention to design factors that relates to giving a great driving experience.
Dennis
“…the way things sound and feel inside” ??? Mr. Lutz may have been too busy measuring panel gaps on that $19,500 Malibu… or that $27,000 LTZ to notice the chintz-fest that is the interior. Hard-to-the- touch “Igloo cooler” plastic inner door panels, the flimsy dash top storage lid, and the awful center console lid. As I’ve said in past posts, the Malibu interior looks fantastic but is let down by these cheap details.
I’ve never had a problem with the luster of GM paint (delamination issues aside… gee whiz, that was not addressed at all) but agree the new GM models have dazzling paint finishes. Then again, so do their competitors.
Unfortunately Mr. Lutz is pointing out that decades later General Motors is attempting to reach a quality standard that had been set years ago.
As for “respect for the ultimate customer”… Mr. Lutz, I issue my own challenge to you. Please, I beg you, find the letter I addressed to Chevrolet about the new Malibu, read it. See how much I want to believe GM has changed, then find a copy of the form letter that I was mailed. It was both an insult to me and the perfect example of a huge corporation on auto-pilot with no real concern for its customer base. Please take the time. I do want to believe, really I do.
So there, you have issued me a challenge and I have issued you one. In the spirit of this blog let us see what we both find out.
Thank you for your time.
Buddy Dean del Rio
“To be fair; the 1997 Buick is a car that is now more than 12 years old and it’s equipped with an engine that goes back to the early 1960’s…”
David,
GM is a 100 year old company. A 1997 Buick is an 11 year old car. Don’t try to tell me that it took more than 89 years for GM to figure out ease of maintenance is a “good thing” to design into a car.
That they didn’t do it in in 1997 only tells me that someone at GM didn’t consider it important or even worse, didn’t care.
Nigel Gamecock
~ “We have in the last few years dramatically upgraded the quality of our paint jobs in terms of luster and radiance”
Why is a “hundred year-old company” only now realizing they need to dramatically upgrade the quality of their paint jobs?
Obviously you aren’t responsible for what GM did 10 or 25 years ago, but even you ~ as one of GM’s competitors for much of that time ~ have to admit that GM has a terrible legacy to overcome.
Gereon (Germany)
Mr. Rovner,
I wouldn’t get excited so much about that garbage, which is spread via those websites. First of all, every reasonable person, who possibly is interested in the ZR1 would do research at serious magazines, such as (e.g.) Edmunds, Car And Driver, The Autochannel, Autoweek, etc. or would visit GM’s websites. Furthermore, as soon as anybody thinks a little about that, it would appear as extremely unlikely, that a car-manufacturer would spend millions of Dollars in the development of a new model or a completely new power-train, just to phase it out again already after a couple of weeks. GM North-America is encountering 3-digit-sales-gains over here in Germany, which, as I do believe, are caused by the new Corvette to a high degree. Why? The Corvette C6, regardless, whether you choose the “entry”-model, the Z06 or the ZR1, delivers more performance and is on par or even better than most of its European competitors regarding top-notch technology, whereas the Corvette is vastly more inexpensive than anything else comparable on our roads. So I couldn’t imagine that GM would dilute the range of available Corvette-Versions by cancelling the ZR1.
However, if I had to decide about it at GM, I’d check all the options to force those guys to stop publishing such non-sense.
edvard
Hey Gereon,
I was wondering if you see any Vettes on the Autobahn over there. That’d be something to see versus over here where of course we have speed limits.
Gereon (Germany)
Hi Edvard,
I am not that extremely often driving on the Autobahn, but from time to time we can see Corvette’s in the cities, especially the new generation C6. Not so far from my place, in Mörfelden (near Frankfurt), there’s even a dedicated Corvette-Center. http://www.corvette-center.de/
However, although there’s no general speed-limit on the Autobahn, as anybody knows, this shouldn’t distract from the fact, that, due to the high density of traffic over here, it’s only rarely possible to go very high speeds over longer distances. Forget about it in the surroundings of Frankfurt. The best places for that are our (minor) highways in rural areas, for example the Autobahn between Würzburg and Stuttgart (A81). Otherwise, if you’d like to push your C6 to the limits, it’s still recommendable to enter the Nürburgring. Many German high-performance-cars have a governor, limiting the speed to 250 km/h (= 156 mph). Those drivers of course will only see the Corvette’s tail-lamps on the Autobahn and that’s just for a short moment… Finally the C6 was performing impressively at several test-drives on German TV. BTW, the Corvette’s trunk-space is favorable for an LPG-Conversion, resulting in unchanged sportscar-performance, but just at subcompact car’s fuel-costs.
jc
Buddy;
Maybe you’d like GM to forget about coil-on-plug engines and all other updated engine tech just so you can repair your own vehicle easily?
How about becoming informed instead of whining. GM pioneered platinum plugs so they only need to be changed every 100000 miles, long life coolant that only needs to be changed every 5 years.
Did you stop to even think about the inherent differences between an ‘in-line 4 cyl’ in your truck and the ‘v6′ in the buick? Where would you like GM to put the plugs on the V6? Have you ever tried to change to plugs on the new Tundra V6’s? Don’t bother if the GM plugs are too much for you.
John Rovner
To Mr Gereon
Your missing the whole point as rumors are more widely spread about via cyberspace as they say the more you tell a lie the truer it becomes
The act that within 2 hours of the false facts being put out at least 12 forums I came across had it as fact GM canceled the Corvette ZR1 and GM still has not even responded saying it was unfounded.
This is about quality as in this case saying the car was canceled due to GM admitting a design quality issue so bad it had to cancel the car model.
Is it not time GM stand up for it’s positive quality and do so down at the grass roots level where we owners/buyers are ?
As owning 12 Corvettes since 1974 I do resent GM even believes the hype out there that they have a quality problem when in fact I own Corvettes for their true design purpose and only 1 of the 12 owned did I have a quality issue and I do not baby these cars and I do not buy them to carshow them.
The Corvette is one of the few GM American icons, the 1984 model ( one I owned) and then the 1990s ZR-1 ( I also owned) gave GM a ton of free positive marketing press.
The Corvette model helped show what GM can do and in this case by allowing what is being said about GM and claiming the ZR1 was killed off only shows GM themselves believes they have a quality issue when it fact most of it is unfounded.
Wars are won in the trenches and we buyers are there so GM needs to quit defending bad quality claims and show that cars like their Corvette since 1953 has shown they have quality that stands up to the harsh conditions a car like the Corvette lives in when used as it was designed for,
David
Buddy Dean,
I’m trying as hard as I can not to sound like I’m bickering but the example cited is not a vehicle that is hard to maintain or service. The only thing that I can think of on that vehicle that isn’t almost ideal from a service standpoint is access to the power steering fluid cap and some of the spill path from the oil filter. For a combination of parts that truly weren’t designed to work together (having been largely designed in different decades) it works pretty well from a service standpoint. It’s not GM’s fault that Toyota or Honda don’t have any significant past history or an engine that managed to still be world-class 35 years after it first went into production.
Corky Estrada
Edvard,
I lived in Germany a number of years. When a car in the left lane passed you doing 300 kph (180 mph) it was much more likely to be a Porsche, Mercedes, BMW, or Ferrari.
When the U.S. military still had a large number of bases in Germany, you would sometimes see Corvettes on the Autobahn. In fact, there were U.S. soldiers and airmen who purposely asked for assignments to Germany so they could ship their ‘vettes over in order to drive them on the Autobahn.
But there was an even larger number of soldiers and airmen who asked for assignments to Germany with the sole purpose of buying a Porsche there and shipping it back to the U.S. (That was in the day when one dollar equaled four Deutsche Marks.)
Laramie Jordan
Closing the Quality Gap
Mr. Lutz,
With all this renewed emphasis on quality of assembly, please comment on the old rumor that one should never buy an American car built on a Monday or Friday.
* “Monday cars” were supposedly not well built because so many assembly workers called in sick, or showed up at work tired and hungover after the weekend.
* “Friday cars” were supposedly not well built because many workers called in sick to take a three-day weekend, or rushed through their work to get an early start on the weekend.
Is it possible to look at the records for a GM car and determine which day it was built?
Have you ever read the book “Rivethead: Tales from the Assembly Line” by Ben Hamper. His stories of how the UAW and company foremen abuse workers, alcoholism, and featherbedding on a GM assembly line, even though from 1992, don’t inspire much confidence in GM quality.
Rivethead: Tales from the Assembly Line
edvard
I’m a big GM fan. But I stand by personal experience of having worked on both vehicles I mentioned. The Buick is way harder to service. Secondly, not all modern advances turn out well. It is a well known fact that GM Dexcool- the long life 5 year coolant, has a tendency to plug up engines. I know because I ran the stuff in my truck. Three years in, I noticed a heavy scale accumulating on the interior of the radiator. I also replaced the water pump and noticed a lot of buildup on the interior surfaces. I had to flush it 4 times to get rid of all the crud. I also don’t mind more frequent maintenance if its easy to do. Takes me five minutes to change the plugs and a couple minutes to change the cap and rotor every 50,000 miles.
Yes- I’m a GM fan. But you can’t deny that the approach Japanese automakers take in regards to their engine construction is highly efficient.
Buddy Dean del Rio
“For a combination of parts that truly weren’t designed to work together (having been largely designed in different decades) it works pretty well from a service standpoint.”
David,
What would be the reason for combing parts that “truly weren’t designed to work together?” That doesn’t sound like a very good blueprint for a quality car.
Mark Gostine
I tried to buy a GM car recently because I believe the quality of American made cars is excellent. They trail the oversea manufacturers only slightly in options (heated steering wheels, back up video) but they are extremely reliable and cost less than comparable foreign cars in the same category. However the car I tried to buy- the Cadillac SRX was unreasonably priced, with no negotiation. The salesman told me take it or leave it $825.00 per month to buy over a 5 year period. So I went down the block to the Lincoln dealer and leased an MKX for $250.00 less per month. I couldn’t believe the arrogance of the salesman in this day and age at the Cadillac dealership.
Grand Rapids MI.
Buddy Dean del Rio
JC,
100,000 mile platinum plugs are fine, until you try to take them out after they’ve been in the same hole for several years and have almost welded themselves into the engine because of the heat and pressure. Then they can be almost impossible to remove. Best practice is to remove and reinstall them every 10,000 miles or so to keep them from becoming frozen in the holes, but how many do that?
Where would I like GM to put the plugs on a V6? Somewhere so that when I open the hood, I can easily see and replace them without any special tools, or needing first to remove any lines, hoses, belts, frame members, engine mounts, or accessories.
Charlie H
Back in ‘03 or so, you (Bob Lutz) said GM’s quality was just as good as anybody else’s. That was a non-starter.
Why should we give this any regard, now? The case for GM quality, reliabily and durability can be made in one of two ways:
1. Time. If GM’s just as good as anybody else, 5 to 10 years should amply demonstrate this.
- or -
2. A killer warranty. Coupled, of course, with dealers that don’t just squawk, “we can’t reproduce the problem.” If you can put a car with superior fuel economy and a killer warranty on the road, I’ll consider it.
As regards maintainability, my Volvos and Toyota layout make routine maintenance extremely easy. Changing the oil requires a wrench, no creeper and the oil filter can be reached from above (in the Volvo, you must take a little care, or use a towel or something, to avoid touching the exhaust manifold).
Dave G
To me the issue is not so much quality, but looks.
You could build a car that will never break down, but if it looks like an Aztec, I’m not buying it.
From a car only perspective.
All Pontiacs look the same. When you sit down and look at them from the front they all have the same type of nose.
All Cadillac’s look the same also. Square fronts and sharp corners. It has to grow on you.
Saab’s look like Pontiacs with the swooped down front grilles.
Chevrolet has a nice variety, but nothing to impress.
Buick is the forgotten brand.
Saturn has never looked good to me.
So what is left?
Don’t get me wrong I love GM products but they are boring.
What market is GM shooting for?
Why do people go out and buy the Ferrari’s and Lamborghini’s when their service history is poor.
Because they look different, and exciting. It’s the wow factor.
Take the Volt for example. When the concept car was shown it looked great, then the real car came out and it looked OK. And this happens with most concept cars.
Conrad
Bob,
I could give two cents about gaps. How about the piece of shit crap machines ya’ll have produced for so many years. The reason everybody in my family drives Toyota’s is simple because they are better quality and you get a lot more miles without breaking down and having out of pocket expenses. It’s not perception but the truth. Your cars are junk like your bonds. See ya in bankruptcy court.
Miguel Gonzalez
Bob, Pontificating on how you **think** the quality gap is being closed does not count. Sorry. Try enhancing your board and your own vision for something that would attract buyers to your cars, may I say Hydrogen-powered? , AND, work on developing your customer-facing troops, may I say dealer-service personnel? . Geez, no wonder Japanese and European brands are eating your apple pie.
Your cars may look cute and more aerodynamic but after decades of subpar and overpriced products, it’s hard to fathom the idea of having consumers turn around and get those burnt consumers to come running to your showrooms on just your word. Have some coffee, relax, and maybe, just maybe, think about retiring to Florida while your golden parachute can still be invoked. Maybe GM can still be saved by a new board with vision.
gtjeff
The Malibu is a very nice car, it has created quite the buzz in showrooms. Here is a question to ponder-Have you considered offering a coupe version of the car? A market segment overlooked by the General. Since Chevy is your volume brand, offering a coupe makes alot of sense.
I dont think panel gaps are that much of a deal breaker, except maybe to you, and a few car magazines. I never hear anyone complain about shelling out big money for a wider gapped, lightweight, plastic paneled Vette or XLR.
There really isnt a quality gap with the imports (just a perception gap). GM’s quality meets or exceeds them. The problem is your companies marketing is misfocused. Help is available, if you know who to hire.
Gereon (Germany)
“When the U.S. military still had a large number of bases in Germany, you would sometimes see Corvettes on the Autobahn.”
Hi Corky,
I am living just about 20 miles away from one of Germany’s most famous US-Army-facilities, the Ray Barracks of Friedberg (in the meanwhile abandoned), where Elvis Presley used to do service. Those Corvette’s I have seen in recent times, definitely had no US-Forces license tag and, BTW, obviously have not been sold by US-Soldiers, before they returned to the US. As I already replied to Edvard, it is acknowledged also by our media, that the Corvette delivers outstanding performance, superior handling and latest technological features at an incredibly favorable price, compared with our domestic competition. So, why shouldn’t buy performance-oriented Germans Corvette’s? Well, of course, Porsche still is an icon, but there also people who ask themselves, whether they should pay a premium of 100′000 Euros just for a name, instead of for concrete value.
Gereon (Germany)
Dear Mr. Rovner,
I already have been agreeing with you at my previous comment, that GM should start measures to stop this misinformation. However, I couldn’t comprehend, if anybody would simply believe in such rumors, without counter-checking that by using a reliable second source. I think it should be common knowledge, that forums are just forums and not the product of solid journalism. I can’t help those people, who take any April’s Fool joke as hard fact.
Dennis
Has anyone here received a reply from Mr. Lutz? I did not think so. Amazing, as GM stock plummets there just does not seem to be time to answer our concerns, or acknowledge our encouragement. As consumers we are the ones in the best position to help save the company yet we are not important enough to elicit a response from the powers that be. Arrogance. Plain and simple. The question is can they still afford this high and mighty attitude given current market conditions? The answer my friends must obviously (and unfortunately) be YES.
David
Buddy Dean,
You don’t take an engine as good as the 3800 and just replace it willy-nilly. As far as that particluar car and it’s quality; I suggest you review the JD Power VDS for Buick and see where those vehicles have placed over the last 10 years. Usually in the top 3 for dependablity. I should have said “originally designed to work together”.
David
edvard,
How many GM engines currently in production use costly unreliable and maintenance intensive timing belts? How about Toyota, Honda, and Nissan? Talk about hard to work on.
Buddy Dean del Rio
“You don’t take an engine as good as the 3800 and just replace it willy-nilly.”
David,
Let’s hope GM never designs a new car “willy-nilly” and expects it to be a quality product. Of course one engine design can be used in different brands of cars. You confused me with your statement, “…a combination of parts that truly weren’t designed to work together.” If true, that would be a recipe for disaster.
Tim
Dennis,
Are you serious? Do you really expect an executive of a multi-billion dollar company to respond to each and every post on a blog? Honestly, he does have more important things to do. I’m sure people at GM do read this, but it would be nearly impossibly to respond to all posts. Secondly, if they reply to some and not all, then you’ll whine about how they pick and chose which to respond to, like everyone did to Rick Wagoner’s response in another blog entry. They can’t win no matter what they do.
Lastly, there are some people on here that are so out of left field, I wouldn’t take the time to respond to either. Those are the people you’ll never convince of anything other than their own (false) ideas.
edvard
David,
Neither my Tacoma or Wife’s Prius has timing belts. They have timing chains. Anyhow, as I previously stated, I am not knocking GM quality. I like their cars and trucks and find their designs more attractive. But You’re not going to convince me that their products are easier to work on because with my experience over many cars, they aren’t.
Scott
Many have already posted about the dealership experience.
I find it interesting that it seems that those dealerships with the best experiences, also find no need to put pictures of their owners and salespersons on their billboards.
There’s very few models left in the GM lineup that don’t have attractive styling. Put the car on the billboard, not the dealer’s mugshot.
The mugshots just propogate the ’slimy car salesman’ stereotype.
This should be a requirement for GM brand franchise ownership - no pictures of dealer owner or salesperson faces on any print or broadcast media. Don’t agree? Don’t get to deal GM products.
Dennis
Tim,
Nearly impossible is not impossible. And yes, I do expect and deserve a reply as do all on-topic posts. Remember, it was a GM decision to open this public forum. Rick Wagoner needs to hear what we the people have to say just as much as does Mr. Lutz. I am honestly saddened by your follow-the-herd attitude, and lack of self-respect. Are you not worth a moment of this man’s time?
Certainly you are, as are we all.
As we are all seeing, multi-billion can easily become multi-million.
By the way, I think you can get Mr. Lutz his lunch now…
GPG
I have driven GM vehicles since 1964. First car 1964 Corvair Monza Coupe; 50k miles in 2 years. No problems or failures even after drag racing at San Antonio Dragway. Second Car 1966 Corvette Coupe (427-390Hp) daily driver for 7 years, 120k miles no problems, original engine-drivetrain, etc.
Since 1973 we have owned several GM Cars and Trucks up until 1987 when we switched to a Saab Turbo (2.0L, Auto, Hatchback) kept vehicle for 11 years (196k miles). 1996 Saab 900, 2001 Saab 9.5 Wagon, 2004 Saab 9.3 SS and presently have a 1999 Saab Viggen (2.3L manual) and a 2007 Saab Sport Combi Aero (2.8L Auto).WE have found that the Saab vehicles have been very reliable, functional and economical.
With todays economic situation, I feel that the taxpayers money would be better served by loaning the money directly to American Manufacturers instead of the Financial middle men who appear to enjoy paying their CEO’s millions of dollars and going on outlandishly expensive junkets. The banking system is totally out of touch with their ever increasing expansion at a cost that no one knows. The common citizen can survive without a bank on every corner or every strip center. Common Sence just seems to be lacking in the financial sector with the governments assistance.
beken
Bob, good message.
But I think I’ll have to argue with you a bit on this one. The quality you speak of is strictly build quality. Of the 3 N. American based manufacturers, GM has, and I believe pretty well always had, the best build quality. I also agree with you that GM’s build quality is vastly improved over even 7 or 8 years ago. However, that is not enough to sway me back to buying GM cars. The car needs to be a quality car. For instance, how many GM cars out there have burned out headlights? My Buick had a burned out headlight. I replaced it and 6 months later, it burned out again. Then I had a signal light burn out and upon inspection, the lightbulb wasn’t burned out at all. The socket it was attached to had started to melt and was shorting out. The service techs just kept replacing the light bulbs. When I bought a new socket (way too expensive in my opinion for a cheap piece of plastic), the parts guy told me they sell a lot of them. So this tells me two places where quality is deficient. The small part where your customer does not see is of inferior quality. Secondly, the service tech that was supposed to resolve the problem didn’t solve the problem. That’s not quality service. My car had wheel bolts break. I had them replaced with my own money, with higher quality bolts. Then the head gasket started leaking and I got rid of the car. I saw a new Buick yesterday and thought to myself, that sure is a nice looking car. But I’m afraid to own one, especially the day after the warranty expires.
GM needs to become a quality company not is just the measurable (KPI) places. A quality product needs to be in your culture before it is part of the product. Only building to meet the measurements (and win a few JDPowers awards) means you’re just a POS. Build the absolute best car you can design and build, then figure out if you can price it competively. Make the ownership experience (for the lifetime of ownership…not just the warranty period) absolutely excellent, and that might save GM.
BTW, I still do have a 1985 GM car and still works fine, though build quality (fit n finish) not so much. However, my 1999 and 2003 GM cars are gone.
Corky Estrada
“I am living just about 20 miles away from one of Germany’s most famous US-Army-facilities, the Ray Barracks of Friedberg (in the meanwhile abandoned), where Elvis Presley used to do service. Those Corvette’s I have seen in recent times, definitely had no US-Forces license tag…”
Gereon,
I was speaking of years ago when the dollar/DM rate was very favorable for U.S. service personnel in Germany. In those days many American service members did specifically ask for a Germany assignment just so they could bring their Corvettes over to drive on the Autobahn.
I’ve been to Ray Barracks and the nearby airfield which is also now abandoned, and the small Elvis Presley museum that was at the Army base in downtown Frankfurt. I was assigned to a V Corps facility at Rödelheim and lived in Kelkheim im Taunus.
You’re right about the serious auto congestion limiting how fast one can drive on the Autobahn. When I lived near Frankfurt, there were few things funnier than to be stuck in a stau and seeing the Ferrari or Porsche next to you crawling along at 10 kph just like everyone else. It was very upsetting for a Porsche owner with a car that could do 300 kph to be stuck in an immense stau going no faster than all the underpowered VW Beetles and Opel Kadettes around him. (And unfortunately as you well know, traffic staus in Frankfurt are all too common.)
Steven Williams
Hello how can I contact Bob or Rick? I have an idea that I think will be a help to GM. I sell GM products and have for over 31 years. I really want to see GM succeed! I can be reached at work 616-531-0950 or home 616-365-8948. Or e-mail me a work. swillams@goodgmc.com or solotworacer@yahoo.com I am trying to think of things that will help GM because I CARE!
Steve
Euroclydon
“Are you serious? Do you really expect an executive of a multi-billion dollar company to respond to each and every post on a blog? Honestly, he does have more important things to do.”
Tim,
Important things? Actually, the single most important thing any CEO needs to understand is how the people his or her company is trying to sell stuff to feels about the product(s) his or her company makes.
While it is unrealistic to expect Lutz or Wagoner to reply personally to the blogs here, I would certainly expect that they assign someone on their staff to view and summarize them for both leaders to review, and that they would also delegate a knowledgeable GM employee to respond on their behalf.
This forum is in effect a giant electronic focus group, and while some of what is posted here deserves little attention, there is also much of value that gives a real insight to how consumers feel about GM and their line of autos. There have even been a few valuable suggestions that GM could benefit from.
If the leaders of a company don’t understand how the consumers view their company and the products they make, they might as well find another job, or pull the ripcord on their golden parachute option.
B.
Hi Bob,
Just a small calculation and some questions regarding product development: a full charge of the Chevy Volt requires 8 kw, right? (great achievement by the way!)The average capacity of a 150 Watt solar panel is 1 kwh / square meter /day in continental Europe (8 kwh in the Sahara desert), so to fill up your Chevy Volt, you would need 5 hours of sunlight at your 20 square meter garage roof solar panel, is that correct?
Or let’s take the wind turbine. With the 8 kw for charging the Volt, you would need 2920 kw per year, to charge it every day. So you need a wind turbine with a yearly 3 000 kwh output. A 2 kw wind turbine produces in average 5000 kwh on a yearly basis. Such a turbine costs at a retail price 7 000 USD.
Wouldn’t that be feasible to offer something like that? Anyhow, during a financial crisis people think about where to put the money to be on the safe side. Having an offer saying you will be mobile for the next x years, and not depending on oil price or energy supply, sounds fair enough to me. And if those gadgets also look cool, and have a Chevy badge, even better.
Honda is thinking about something similar, they are building a home generator for the FX Clarity, only that instead of electricity it is creating hydrogen. And whit hydrogen being the source of power in the vehicle they can forget the issue of battery performance. The only thing what I don’t understand is why they are using gas for creating hydrogen, and why not wind or solar power. But that’s their problem. I am sure, you are familiar with all these calculations, what I would like to know is what was the conclusion, is this reasonable to do, and so on.
Thanks, regards,
B.
Terry
Great commentary. My brother lives in Santa Barbara. He races vintage cars, including an Alfa and a 1955 Jag. But, he also has a 1996 Impala SS with 240,000 miles on it that in his words “is the cheapest total ownership car I’ve ever owned.” And he’s put over 200,000 miles on other GM cars, too. I have a 2002 Impala with almost 100,000 miles on it and it looks brand new. I also have a 2008 CTS. What a marvelous ride: fit, finish, ride, handling, ammentities and great appeal. We’re making some great cars (CTS, Malibu, Cobalt, Aura), with more to come (Camaro, Cruze, Volt). Now, if we can just get some good press and get the economy moving, again. I’m still amazed at the marginal press we get, sometimes even in SE Michigan by the coastal snobs. I’d like to see a writer in Tokyo get away with trashing a local product or complimenting a US one. Things were looking pretty good before $4 gas, the subprime crash and Wall Street meltdown. We’re coming back. I would like to see an MSRP closer to the transaction price, though-keeps the website comparisons in check, not to mention perceptions of value.
Keep up the good work.
Miguel Gonzalez
Well, it looks like a GM-Chrysler merger is being hammered out… Rick, Bob, what was the point of a case for GM, but a waste of time and billions of dollars, again.
Sadly, you guys rode the SUV wave too long, became arrogant and couldn’t see beyond your fine offices, surrounded by your “YES” subordinates, while your army of lobbyists fought every piece of legislation that tried to get you in the fuel efficiency road, something that you all thought of as unnecessary, to put it mildly.
Remember the electric car? Bob was at the helm when the EV-1 got killed (2003) - a product from 1990!
If there is some consolation, feel pride in joining the likes of Hewlett-Packard snubbing at Steve Wozniack’s Apple I, and foremost, Detroit Automobile snubbing at Henry Ford’s idea of a car for the masses.
SteveG
No offense, but replace Rick Wagoner with Roger Penske and watch your stock double right after the news.
RW’s reign has been marked with ineptness, confusion, and reduced market share.
Time for a change-from the outside.
Ford did it, you should too.
James S.
I used to be a GM faithful, until GM went FWD and the trucks went IFS.
I had a B-body Caprice and it was the best vehicle I have ever owned, but GM doesn’t build anything like it anymore. The new FWD Impala is a joke, the crossovers lack power, economy, and capacity.
I had a GM 4×4 truck with IFS and after numerous problems, I bought a Dodge.
By numerous, I mean multiple failures on a stock truck. Driven over the exact same terrain, on-road and off-road useage, and following the manufacturer’s maintenence schedule, my Dodge has suffered NO failures.
After my first Dodge I got a Grand Cherokee, then another Dodge truck, and now another Grand Cherokee. 4 Chrysler products in just under 10 years. Over $120,000 to another company because some accountants and GM thought people wouldn’t notice FWD, IFS, or lousy quality.
GM used to build really high quality vehicles, but the FWD geldings took over and killed RWD cars in favor of truck profits. SFA trucks were killed in favor of IFS. Mr. Lutz can claim the quality is high, but the reality is the appeal is limited, and some of the products suffer from serious engineering flaws, let alone significant quality concerns.
The new ZF sourced RWD center-sections are aluminum. They flex, they suffer from thermal creep, and they are not up to modified applications. BMW and Mercedes use cast iron. Ford uses a stronger assembly. What gives GM?
The HD truck’s IFS assembly is horrible. It is beyond sub-par. Large tires dramatically shorten the life of the assembly. So while Dodge and Ford offer larger wheel and tire assemblies on their SFA, GM still puts tiny little tires on their IFS trucks.
I’m not Anti-GM, I have 5 GM vehicles and 2 Chrysler, LLC products. The problem is that I gave up on brand loyalty when the brand stopped selling products I wanted.
GM offers only a couple RWD cars, the midsized SUVs have been replaced by less-than-perfect cross-overs, and almost every GM car has the questionably reliable 60* V-6, while the 3800 was phased out because the press didn’t like it.
GM is notorious for perfecting a car design, building ultra-reliable vehicles, then rushing a redeisgn to market, causing quality to suffer, then playing catch-up.
You know Bob, if it weren’t for picky customers like myself, GM could be back on top…
Justin P
Beken - you have pointed out what is wrong with GM. The cost cutters always have the last say, and underneath the better looking interior it is still cheap cheap cheap. GM just can’t bring themselves to build a quality car. What would the cost cutters do?
Bob - you can thank Bo for this situation. And I’ll bet he’ll still be there to turn out the lights. You guys never did learn, and it now looks like you’ll run out of time and never will.
Jeremy Willett
A few random thoughts:
I love the Malibu, the Cruze, the Corvette, the CTS, great job. Three quarters job done on the Solstice
One can put 200k on any new car these days with good maintenance. Just because a GM product does that doesn’t mean the corporation is at parity with the competition.
Bob Lutz’s public statements should not be taken at face value: “GM’s quality’s is as good as anyone’s” or “global warming is not man-made.” These are the statements of an executive who only wants to preserve shareholder equity.
I don’t trust Lutz to take GM to the next level, but I think he’s done a good job product-wise to get us here today.
I am baffled by the Chrysler merger. Their products are inferior to GM’s, they are near the bottom of the industry. How many brands will GM have after a Chrysler merger?
Multiple brands are NOT a strength, they are a weakness; they are diluted.
And GM has FAR too many dealers, many of whom are probably not up to snuff. Cutting back will be painful, but necessary.
Danny K.
Here’s a quote from your article on your appearance on Colbert:
It turns out, unfortunately, that “outrageous” is the main bandwidth of my humor, so I found my responses coming reasonably fast and automatically.
That’s also the main bandwidth of my humor.
Just wanted to give you guys a suggestion. Go to You Tube and click on some of the older car commercials there. In particular there are a bunch of old Dodge commercials from 1966 through about 1971 that someone in your advertising department should see. They are far more entertaining and have far more impact than most of what you see today. They make shameless use of attractive women, but, best of all, they are fun. Is there something that could be done other than shoveling more unmemorable politically correct crap our way?
Greg Soden
I had an extended thought to my previous comment. Bob likes challenges, so here is one for him. Bob, I have purchased 3 new Saturns in the last 5 yrs, approx. 100,000 dollars worth. I think shows the extent of my loyalty to your brand. However, due to the number of problems with my 2008 Saturn Vue, and mostly due to the lack of loyalty from the customer service department, I am done with the GM brand. The challenge for you is to bring me back into the bowtie family. I have already shared with my friends the list of issues I am having with my VUE, and who knows how many friends they are sharing with. I challenge you to step up to the plate, take back this vehicle, give me a 2009 VUE, and I will start over on the payments. I don’t want a newer model of 2008 because of the recall on the transmission. I will be glad to be a spokesperson for you. Otherwise, turning Japanese. Not a threat, just fact out of necessity. Cannot have my wife drive a car that continually breaks down, and can’t afford when it goes out of warranty. You up for the challenge???
Laramie Jordan
Good review of the Corvette ZR-1 in the NY Times:
ZR-1
MWG2
After a 20 year absence, I came back to GM. And as a very happy 2LT HHR owner (11 months) I would like to offer three suggestions to make it even better: 1) The HHR needs inside spring hinged handles, like the ones over each door on a Honda Accord. The average age of an HHR owner is 58 (per your HHR Marketing Director) and the handles will be a great, helpful addition. 2) The OEM tires that come with the 2LT are quite poor in snow and wet pavement. The HHR SS has great tires. It is suggested that the 2LT come with Michelin Exalto A/S tires - they make a world of difference. 3) All HHRs would do extremely well with a rear anti-sway bar. The handling difference is amazing, AND the holes are pre-drilled for the sway-bar. It takes all of 20 minutes to install. At least make it an option. I also want to state that I get 36.5 MPG @ 55 MPH; 33 MPG @ 65 MPH. I do burn the recommended Premium gas. With the correct tires and anti-sway bar, this is one nice little ride. Four friends have purchased HHRs based on my recommendation and they all love their HHR. And kudos to GM for the electronic steering!!! Lastly, many folks drive the HHR because they love it; I assure you, I can afford just about any car on the market, but the HHR is fun, functional and just makes sense with today’s fuel costs.
Al
I agree with Dennis - there should be a follow-up from Bob on this post. GM is a very metrics driven company - the challenge for all executives that post to this blog (and others) should be that they provide a follow-up comment within 3-4 days. They don’t need to respond to every comment, but it is nice to see that they are reading the posts and taking in all feedback - both positive and negative. I would like to see this applied to all posts going forward.
Scott Ackerman
I like Mr. Lutz, and I like the direction Mr. Lutz is going with GM, but I am a little hesitant with build quality. I purchased a 2006 Impala SS, and every A/C vent on the _NEW_ GM interior rattles. Not good! The old GM interiors never did this. Faithful I am, so I buy my wife a 2007 Tahoe. It has a harmonic rattle under partial acceleration, and leaks engine oil from between the engine and transmission. The good news is that the A/C vents don’t rattle!
I talked my dad into purchasing a G8. In three months, it has been to the dealer twice for fluid in the vapor canister line.
I talked my brother into by his wife a 2008 Impala. It had to go back to the dealer within three days. It wouldn’t drive straight. It was badly out of alignment. The dealer said it happens when unloading them from the car carrier.
So, now for a buyer/consumer problem, and this is not just a GM problem. The dealers can’t service what they sell. If I take my car to the local dealer, they will break more than they fix. So, I have paper wedged in my A/C vents on one car, and a drip pan on the floor under the other. Makes for a great conversation piece. Not the type of conversation GM needs now or ever.
Scott
Hawkshaw
The dealers can’t service what they sell. If I take my car to the local dealer, they will break more than they fix.
This is a huge problem and I have no idea how GM will fix it. Bob Lutz can talk all he wants about quality, but it means little until GM gets a grip on improving dealer service quality and the customer experience at GM dealers. My experience is that GM’s dealer network isn’t doing corporate GM any favors and only makes your task more difficult.
Quality follow-on service at a fair price is no less important than initial build quality.
Charlie H
Hawkshaw: “This [dealer incompetence] is a huge problem and I have no idea how GM will fix it.”
Provide alternatives to dealer service. Offer a program to certify independents and pay them for warranty work. There’s a shop right down the road where I took my out-of-warranty Volvos. They do first-class work on Volvos and all kinds of cars. They did a first-class job on the brakes on my ‘00 Toyota for 60% of what a brake shop wanted. Let them do in-warranty work. This is a move that would get me considering GM.
In fact, abandon tradidional warranties altogether. Buy “insurance” for the car’s first 100K miles / 7 years to pay for any repairs at any certified mechanic.
MWG2
My wife drives a Honda and has for 8 years. Prior to purchasing my HHR, I had Accords. The service department at Honda delearships care about one thing: Customer Satisfaction. Dealers are rewarded on customer satisfaction. GM dealers need to understand how Honda dealers treat their service customers and follow suit. With a Honda, you get an assigned mechanic that personally takes responsibility for your vehicle, along with the service writer. They come out and speak with you and make sure you understand everything that was performed on the car.
I will only go to the Chevy dealer for a warranty item and nothing else, never maintenance items. Case in point: I am a member of an HHR forum. A member took his HHR in for its 30K service. The dealer charged him for “flushing the power steering fluid.” THERE IS NO POWER STEERING FLUID in the HHR!!!! It’s electronic steering!! It is this kind of stuff that gives GM a bad name. If a Honda dealer did this, they would have serious problems. I know…my closest friend is a GM at a Honda dealer. (And he is still giving me grief for buying an HHR!)
Gary Dikkers
Not a quality issue, but why nothing yet from Lutz or Wagoner on the tax credit provisions for plug-ins in the $700 billion bailout act? Tax Credits for Plug-Ins Favor Big Batteries</b<
Sounds like it will help bring the cost (to the consumer) of the Volt more within reach of average people.
“The law calls for a base credit of $2,500 for plug-in hybrid purchases, which increases by $417 for each kilowatt-hour of battery capacity over four kilowatt-hours, to a maximum of $7,500. So the Chevrolet Volt, scheduled to go on sale in late 2010 with a 16 kilowatt-hour pack, would presumably qualify for the full subsidy.”
Gary Molnar
Bob: When talking quality please state your definition of quality to give the audience an understanding of what your definition of quality is.
With respect to quality, I’ll give you a challenge. Check the power steering fluid on a 2002 Impala with a 3.8 engine. You don’t have to add the fluid, just check it without help from anyone for the location of the power steering reservoir. If you’re up to the maximum challenge of adding power steering fluid, give it a try. Let me know if this customer experience fits into your definition of quality.
mitch weaver
As someone in my early forties I have not been able to shake my perception of American car quality. I think it’s irrational but there it is. It’s like I look for things to reinforce the belief, like when I was at the auto show in New York several years ago and saw an exposed screw in the A pillar of a Ford. I just can’t shake the memory even though I also sat in the Chrysler 300, whose interior I thought was superb.
Maybe my some people in my generation are just wasted for you guys. I just bought my mother a Nissan Versa because for quality, cost, and matching of her needs it was just perfect. I searched among US products out of a sense of moral duty, but except for the Pontiac Vibe, that I secretly hoped she would prefer, there was nothing out there for her. I had confidence in the Vibe because I understand it comes out of the NUMI plant like the Matrix.
And I have noticed the excellent new paints, especially the purplish blues
How do you guys deal with my irrationality?
bluebaby
Hello Bob,
Our Caddy CTS is the most impressive car on the road, here in so.cal. its a head turner and thats saying a lot because of all the kool-aid drinkers here driving cars that never break down yet I see them all the time on the side of the freeways, imagine that. anyway thanks for the Crystal Red CTS.
bluebaby
Sean
My criteria for measuring GM’s progress is pretty simple. GM would need to have over 50% of its products as “Quick Recommendations” from Consumer Reports for me to even consider them. Until then it is hard to accept that GM has undergone a fundamental institutional change in attitude and is not just paying lip service to product quality as in years past.
Mike Western
Are you nuts? GM buy that crazy Chrysler LLC? Do you mean GM doens’t have enough to do? With Chrysler on their back, GM would have thousands of dealers to get rid of, way too many brands, more plants than they would know what to do with, thousands of employees to buy out, and for what? For the Chrysler Tech Center in Auburn Hills and more diluted brands? YUK!!
If you really mean there is a “case for GM”, then stay away from Chrysler and get your act together! GM still has not learned that bigger is not necessarily better. It looks like GM is going down the tubes if they don’t wake up pretty quick.
Too bad. It was a really great company.
Bob Davies
GM will NEVER get to 50% recommendations. The reason is simple. The cost cutters at GM only care about buying for less and nothing else matters. It it shakes and breaks, it’s not their problem. They get compensated for buying on the cheap, and squeezing their suppliers for any money that they can get. This is one sleazy and dishonest company and their fate is the result of shoddy management at the top of their Purchasing group. Even Bob Lutz, the greatest car guy that ever lived can’t get GM to pony up to the level of quality that they should. The beancounters have far too much power at GM for even the mighty Lutz. Whoever thought that a Swedish dictator could defeat an American Marine?
SteveG
You sure about this quality thing, Bob?
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f12/cr-findings-show-trouble-cts-lambdas-25-gm-vehicles-well-below-average-70605/
Tenn Joe
Consumer Reports just came out with quality surveys showing 25% of GM vehicles “substatiantly below average” in quality or reliability, though several models were average or above , including the new Malibu.
I am a GM fan and have experienced relatively minor problems with GM vehicles I have owned,but Consumer Reports evaluation of vehicles carry a lot of weight with the general public and their new survey results can’t help GM’s peception of being sub par on quality.
According to their results, Ford now ranks on par with the best Japaneese companies in reliability.
GM may be sincerely trying to improve quality, but it appears there is still a lot more to be done to shake the poor perception some have of GM vehicles.
Please ,please work super hard to boost the quality and reliability of the great new vehicles coming out in the next few years! GM’s future existance depends on it.
I want to see GM regain it’s past reputation as the worlds best automobile company.
Malcolm
the improvements in quality are great. Now you have to convince the public through your advertising and marketing strategies. Thats not as easy. Its going to take time before the public starts to see GM on par with the so called ‘leaders’ of quality.
BostonWriter
Your points about fit-and-finish and quality are very well taken and should be featured more prominently in your marketing. However, one of the most prominent things I’ve noticed in recent years is the fact that you’ve made GM vehicles fun to drive again.
I’ve owned German and Japanese cars from many different manufacturers and was left with the distinct impression that consumers had to choose the lesser of two evils: you could have a vehicle that was fun to drive but expensive to maintain (German cars) or you could have a reliable vehicle with sleep-inducing performance (Japanese cars.) At the risk of sounding like a bit of a fanboy, I feel like GM has cracked the code.
A few years ago I purchased a Malibu Maxx to replace a vehcile that was a gas-guzzler and was starting to nickle-and-dime me to death. In the spirit of full disclosure, I didn’t have high expectations and intended to own it for a couple of years then get something else. I’ve now had the vehicle for over four years and have no intent of getting rid of it anytime soon. Here is this inexpensive little hatchback that is an absolute blast to drive, cheap to own and - after 85,000 miles - is still running like a top. (I’ve recently had an opportunity to put some miles on a 2008 Saturn Vue Hybrid and that vehicle was an absolute joy to drive as well.)
I recommend you launch a campaign similar to that of the “gap gauge” challenge referenced in the video above, but ask people to get into a Chevy and take it for a spin instead… I’m sure you’ll get a great deal of converts that way as well. Great work & keep it up.
Bump Morgan
“Here is this inexpensive little hatchback that is an absolute blast to drive, cheap to own and - after 85,000 miles - is still running like a top.”
Of course in all their wisdom, GM decided not to make a hatchback model in the latest iteration of the Malibu. What do American car companies have against hatchbacks?
Bri
While everyone likes to look at a nice car with a nice paint job, and noone wants to see the hood attached the body of the car with 3 feet of space inbetween; there are other issues that consumers care more about when it comes to purchasing a car. GM does a good job of explaining how well the quality of paint and fit of the car pieces have been improved. GM fails to address main, key issues that many consumers have with the company. I agree with Blue Wing….”Body fit is important, but there is a lot more to quality than body fit. Just as important (if not more so) is durability, reliability, plus ease and cost of maintenance. And those are questions you didn’t address.
Let me throw out a personal challenge to you: Have you ever changed the oil and belts on one of the new Malibus, and if so, how long did it take you? Did you need any special tools, or is it possible with the tools an average guy might find in his garage?
One more question: If the quality is so good, why haven’t you backed that up with a better, more comprehensive warranty?
I personally have a GM car- I can’t change the oil or spark plugs if I wanted to. In my old Mazda it was a breeze to change the spark plugs myself, but not with current car. Blue Wing raises good questions and points that I am in agreeance with.
John
I can’t quite see myself just yet comparing gaps on a Chevy with a BMW or other import prestige makes. The gaps on my ‘07 Cobalt SS are frightening. For example, between the driver side headlamp and the edge of the front fascia that runs along side it by the grill, I can fit all for of my fingers in the gap between them.
That being said, GM has made great strides in fit and finish. It’s now up to the marketing department to get this message across, something GM has always dropped the ball on. In my experience, talking to import owners is like talking to a wall. Maybe run some ads with real people going to the dealers and doing this “gap test” for the public to see on a larger scale.
Bob Deflorin
Hello GM,
As a former GM Sales Representative, here is my take on one reason GM has tanked…. They forgot about the front line. I’m talking about the person who shows the customers all the new GM vehicles and really sells them on the value of the vehicle. The dealers took all the profits for themselves and these sales people were squeezed and squeezed until they were forced to go sell imports in order to make a living. (They were still selling value) When you have young green pees selling your product and they don’t have the experience to sell on the quality, all they have left to sell is price. And when you take away the perceived quality, what is left for the customer? DISSATISFACTION! You see, the happiest customers pay the most, and the guy who paid the most is the happiest. This is why GM has unhappy customers and there is no perceived value with GM cars and trucks, and why GM has had to work so hard to improve the “quality” of their product.
motorman
my question for GM would be how come the same problem keeps showing up year after year. my new 1982 celebrity had a steering shaft “knock” on rough roads and my 2004 impala has the same problem. why don’t they just use a better universal joint to begin with. these types of problems is what cause car buyers not to come back to GM
Gary Dikkers
“my new 1982 celebrity had a steering shaft “knock” on rough roads and my 2004 impala has the same problem.”
Motorman,
Looks like the lesson here is that GM didn’t think they needed to design the Celebrity and Impala for rough roads.
Justin
If GM’s quality has improved then my car wouldn’t be such a disappointment. I have never seen a car so poorly built and thought through. I’ve experienced enough problems with my new Cobalt to claim lemon law in my home state. Since I cannot afford such a feat I continue to pay for all warranty work, the breakdowns, the possiblity of paying for “complimentary roadside assistance”, and creeps who cover themselves as working for the BBB but in reality work for GM. Its no wonder American’s don’t buy American when they can’t even trust their hometown made cars and trucks and dealerships. I can’t even talk with customer care at Chevrolet anymore I get hung up on every time and its just so unprofessional and sad that this supposed American company can’t even help out an American. I don’t know how I can get through the winter in this Cobalt. Knowing my luck it will just rust and fall apart in the middle of the road while I attempt to use the worst car in the world in snow to my job to pay for a car that doesn’t work half the time.
Alan Carvalho
If we think that some day GM quality will be the best, then it will be. I strongly believe that social energy precedes physical reality. I think the shift to America and GM is on. It is visual and GM cars and trucks have all the style anyone can ask for. Success always starts very slowly, like a graph it takes time, but when progress becomes visible then the rate of progress becomes faster with the passage of time.
Mark Price
I have driven a number of Buicks and Oldsmobiles, and I have a 2006 Rendezvous now. The depreciation is really disappointing. It has been a good car so far.
But I think Japanese human factors are better than American on interior controls and instruments.
I think GM’s price are too high compared to their foriegn competition.
I don’t think Bob Lutz can see that.
mitch fillet
One of the primary reasons that the government has denied a bailout plan to the auto companies and has thought carefully about the need for a “car czar” is the patent irresponsibility of auto company senior management as it comes to dealing with the balance between expenses and revenue…
Not only did the executives fly three private planes to Washington, D.C., but they have not addressed the question of excess expenses that should have been reduced or eliminated by now…How many planes are still on the balace sheet or in the operating statement as leases for these three companies ??..How many cars with drivers ???..How about private clubs ???..Anyone still charging their Bloomfield Hills golf club to the company…It would be really interesting to note how many cars for executives are being paid for by the company…??…Management 101 teaches that the first thing you do in crisis is reduce expenses because you CANNOT drive revenue…Maybe even reduce marketing expenses and focus on driving revenue through established distribution channels like the dealer community…Frankly, I am shocked by how little senior management has stated their intentions or, better yet, their actions regarding saving the industry through things that they can do NOW…
JJ
Thanks for the comment, motorman. You are absolutely on the mark. We want to buy American. We really do. BUT, we have had 5 engine coolant leaks in our 2001 Pontiac Grand Prix GT and now the engine is ruined at only 68,000 miles! We had it repaired 4 times, but not this time since the repair costs are more than the vehicle is worth. This was my husband’s first new, “nice” car and it was his baby before we had babies. He loved this car and took excellent care of it, washing, waxing, regular oil changes, all repairs at a Pontiac dealer, etc. He loved the power of a V6 3.8, which is something that most Japanese sedans (ie Camry, Accord) don’t give you for the same price. BUT, the poor car is a freakin’ money pit! Just way too many repairs, way too unreliable. The vehicle had the upper intake repaired once and replaced twice, and the lower intake replaced once and it still leaks coolant! The engine has probably been overheating the entire time we have owned the car, but who would know since the temperature guage measures the temp of the coolant. Well, here’s the problem, if there’s no coolant to measure, how do you know the engine is overheating? The temp guage never went red, nor was there a warning indicator for low coolant. Also, it’s been leaking coolant into the engine oil. Yep, it’s the DexCool. Unfortunately, even though the vehicle has low miles, we only qualify for $50 or $100 from the class action lawsuit. So, we got ourselves a lawyer. Right now we are waiting to hear if GM will buy back the vehicle. We can’t use it because it’s not safe, but we can’t afford a new car without cash or something to trade in! What a pickle. But I have to say that even if GM does make good and settle with us, I doubt I’ll ever buy American again. In fact, we’ve already been out looking at Camrys and Civics. Trust me, the hubby hates this. As I said before, we want to buy American. But who can afford to keep repairing an unreliable vehicle? The Pontiac was paid off, but we are now going back to having 2 car payments, which is a big blow to our budget. Believe me, I’m not a whiner about wear and tear repairs or routine maintanance. No car is perfect, but this problem goes beyond the normal expectations- this is a huge nightmare. We need our next car to last 10 years and don’t trust an American car company, especially not GM, to get us there. It’s a shame. It really is. GM is kind of like the big banks with the toxic “assets” on their balance sheets. If they own up to this intake problem, they will be buying back or fixing a whole lot of vehicles for free and it will cost big time in the short term. But if they never own up to it, they will continue to lose customers (or money like the banks), and that will blow up in their face in the long-term. I’m a good customer- perfect credit, always pay on time, homeowner, stable job- they should want my business. Give me a good, long FREE extended warranty that reassures me that you stand behind your product. Tell your dealers not to give me the run around or always blame the problem on the customer. Stop playing games, come clean, and do the right thing. Fess up to a big, crappy problem (coolant leaks/ intake issues) and do a MASSIVE goodwill recall. THEN, for the love of Pete, please build the cars the right way starting NOW! That’s how you’re going to turn this thing around and win. That’s how GM would get my business back. I will be stepping off my soap box now. Thank you.
>>>motorman
the problem that GM has to overcome is when there was a problem like the V-6 intake gaskets they never issued a call back or offered a extended warranty and it took a law suit for anything to get done. i know of some people who had several different cars over the years repaired because GM left this same problem go on for years. owners like my self who do not put a lot of miles on a car per year have these problems after the warranty time is over and must pay out of our pockets for the repair. with the new GM warranty of 5 years and 100,000 miles will help with this problem.
Rob Theisen
Ive heard this all before! Improved quality and such! WHy is it my last 5 gm vehicles all have had blown intake gaskets. 02 malibu,95 cutlass, manifold on a 99 Bonneville. manifold on an 02 lesabre and now on my 98 olds silouhette! There seems to be a pattern here! The dealer gives me the run around. hello toyota!
stonesapple
Here is what GM needs to do:
1. Forget about “theme designing.” In the past they “theme designed” their cars. All Pontiacs had the same crappy buttons and interior plastics because the designers would create a horrible design and it would spread to every single automobile for that brand. All GM cars would have a mess of parts from a bin that were thrown together to make the cheapest car that GM could pull off.
Now GM has finally realized that theme designing doesn’t work and that they can’t just piece together parts from a bin to make something work they are at a loss for actual design knowledge and they end up emulating German design and not coming up with their own ideas. The Malibu is about the ugliest car I’ve ever seen, ever.
2. Less is more. Using low amounts of high quality materials has a much better effect than using high amounts of bad quality materials. For example the new Chevy Malibu would benefit design wise from a central console that is one piece. The radio, navigation system, HVAC controls should be designed to be one piece that doesn’t have gaps or screws showing at all. The car should not be design to say “yeah, this thing will break eventually and that why there are screws showing and gaps around the radio and every button cluster so its easier to replace parts when needed” it should say “this thing was designed so well and everything will work great because it would be a bitch to have to replace anything.”
Think of the the new aluminum iMac. There are no screws showing, to latches, nothing. But Apple knows, that all they need to do is put a suction cup on the glass and it pops of showing an easily serviceable computer.
Also, using less parts requires less inventory, less assembly time, less effort and produces a high quality car that people won’t forget. The use a cheap wood trims, buttons, bins, panels, materials does nothing.
3. Utilize technology. Get rid of CD players and changers, make them an add on that fits in the trunk or glove box, most people use phones or iPods. Every new car should have an LCD navigation system whose software was developed by a professional company. This screen could be used in every car, truck, and SUV instead of the cheap buttons and huge control units needed for radios, cd players and HVAC. If each car GM made used this same system, it would save them money because production costs for plastic pieces and assembly would be gone.
4. Get rid of the past. Don’t bring back old cars. Period. If they didn’t survive the whole time, they shouldn’t come back. Don’t design cars with the idea that they have to have certain elements. Let the designers design the vehicle and then ask “can we do this?”
SAAB will have no future in the market if GM keeps doesn’t realize that what SAAB was in the past doesn’t matter anymore, the starter moved down doesn’t matter because a car in that class shouldn’t require that the key even be inserted. The whole jet idea is great, but lets look at current technology and apply that. For example I would love to see a SAAB with a LCD panel instead of analog. Get rid of the starter and make the thing seamless. I wanna get into the car and be amazed. The SAAB 95 is a perfect example of what GM is doing wrong, its a sea of stock GM parts with a little bit of SAAB theme designing thrown in. For God’s sake, Bob, grow some balls and actually design a car that deserves attention.
I know this post was not written the best it could have, but I have so much to say about how GM annoys me that it just overwhelming. Thanks.
Scott Duncan
Note to G.M.
Keep Chevy…..Full line-up of cars, crossovers, SUV’s, vans, & light trucks. Nothing more!
Keep Cadillac… premium luxury-luxury sport…Cars only!
Keep GMC………Medium duty…. Commercial Trucks Nothing more! No light duty!
Sell Buick to China… You need the cash and Buick is lame here anyhow, and they love em there for some reason.
Dump Pontiac
Dump Saturn
Dump Hummer
………Saab? read on……
Consolidate Opel,Vauxhall, and Saab into one Euro Brand and get rid of the garbage!
Take Saab for example, the only decent Saab that was ever produce including the failed attempts at Saabaru’s were the 9-3’s. The convertible is a nice looking car! Aside from that they have nothing though. stop trying to give them a full line-up of losers and accept the fact that there is only one decent car out of the whole line-up.
Saab has also been a money loser for GM ever since it was acquired. I’d sell it off to the Swedish govt. if I could and take whatever I could get for it.
Okay your almost there now!
Now, the next part is going to be harder yet.
…….Admit you made a mistake with the new contemporary take on what you think a Camaro should be and kill it before you give birth to a still born XLR roadster turned into a Coupe. It looks the the by-product of a Ménage à trois involving a CTS, the rear of a Corvette to the side profile of a 68 Camaro with the slits of a 69 in the rear quarters. I do not think the world needs a Corvette Coupe right now either. You should have stuck to the original 68, put a modern chassis underneath and been golden! People would have been lined up for the best of both worlds. As is, I’ll take a Challenger, or Mustang any day of the week over the abomination you now call the Camaro. FWIW, I think the original 67’s ( both Camaros, and Firebirds ) were/are two of the best looking cars ever made!
Okay almost done… turn the G-8 into a Chevelle and bring on the G-8ST as an El Camino! Offer it with optional AWD and get rid of the Canyon and Colorado for a single, smaller, S-10 sized trucklet that offers a four cylinder engine with GDI.
Both of these decisions will help you with the new CAFE standards and offer viable choices to tradesmen that still want/need a truck bed but do not need to haul drywall, or plywood sheets and do not want/need a full size behemoth that guzzles gas. Yes, you can even offer a performance SS version too for those that are willing to pay extra.
One last thing… offer front bench seats in your mid size to full-size cars as an option for older people and those with handicaps that aren’t limited to wheelchairs. Ingress and egress is much better for those with a disability. It is much easier to get in and out of bench seats for those with leg or hip problems as they can slide over far enough to swing their legs in and then reposition themselves. Several older people have mentioned this to me, and I was made acutely aware of it when my mother had her knee replaced and I picked her up at the hospital.
Ta Da!
Now you can concentrate on the viable products remaining without overtaxing your limited resources on trying to badge engineer multiple clones into different brands. For years now GM has over complicating things by having too many of those brands, and worse yet trying to make each and every brand have it’s own full line-up, with minor differences distinguishing them apart from the others. Public perception is to the point where most Americans now realize they are all the same animal. The unneeded and unwanted product redundancy that has plagued GM for the last thirty to forty years now has taken a huge toll on their market share eroding each of it’s brands as just another spin on three or four other similar models all having the same mechanics, underpinnings, and amenities, inside and out. Hardly unique, just more of the same with a twist, or different grill and emblem.
Just don’t continue to make the same mistakes. Flexible automation is a wonderful thing, but at least have different “Top Hats’” when you are platform sharing. If you want a successful model to follow look no further than Chryslers’ LX, LC line-up from Brampton Ont. All three cars that come out of there share similar underpinnings yet look nothing alike, and are as different as night and day on who they are marketed to and appeal to. Just rebadging the same regurgitated garbage over and over has put you in the mess you are dealing with. I am not saying Chrysler is much better off, but at least they do not have five brands too many, and have a good grasp on making their joint platforms look distinctly different. Yeah, I know all about the Epsilon platform; Malibu, Aura, 9-3, and G-6. I am familiar with the Theta, and Lambda also. Dare to be different on the top hat’s and offer something bold, fresh, and attractive and you’ll do just fine. More than two to three brands of anything becomes over taxing though.
Hylton Jorssen
Please GM! Stop associating initial product quality and recalls with reliability. If you want true reliabilty numbers, start talking to people who have bought a new car and kept it for 5 years or more. Todays consumer doesn’t mind recalls because they are getting something for free.
What they hate are things which are not covered by warranty or recall that they have to pay out of their pockets. Talk to guys with 2002 Camaros who need to keep getting their window motors replaced. Talk to 2006 GMC Yukon/Chevy Suburban owners who have to deal with speedo gauges that don’t work in sub zero temperatures.
Leanne Wandoff
Hello Hylton, I’m Leanne Wandoff with GM Communications supporting Quality. Initial quality is an early indicator of reliability, as they strongly correlate. When you look at the Chevrolet Malibu, which earned the top spot in the J.D. Power & Associates Initial Quality Study for the midsize car segment in its launch year, we are pleased because the success of the Malibu’s early days should translate to success in the later ones. We are striving for all succeeding car, truck and crossover launches to be better than the Malibu. Finally, I couldn’t agree with you more that the experience a customer has with a vehicle – every year in its lifecycle – is important to us and that’s why we do listen and incorporate feedback into our vehicles to continuously improve. In fact, we survey about 10 million customers a year.
Alex D.
GM should be cutting brands. the first brands that should be completely shuttered and not sold are Hummer and SAAB, hopefully they are closed by 2011. Saturn then should follow in 2012 with a complete closure.
The reason why Buick-Pontiac-GMC should stay is because they act as one brand, under one dealership roof, with shared manufacturing and could actually be successful going forward. in the yr. 2000 each had substaintially higher market shares but have deviated from their core branding and message.
It will not cost GM a lot of money to close Hummer/SAAB/Saturn because their dealership footprint is extremely small. combined they have under 1,000 dealerships which minimizes lawsuits and allows dealers to be successfully bought out by the company. when Oldsmobile was shuttered in 2000 the brand has 2,800 dealers which made it significantly harder and more expensive to close.
Using that logic it should only cost GM $700 million dollars to completely unwind those three brands, which is a mire pittance when compared to the $ 30 billion dollar infusion it is about to recieve from the U.S. government to sustain their operations.
To sell Saab/Hummer/Saturn would be a big mistake, it would strengthen their competitors and not help to alleviate the over-branded U.S. market. competitiors will shift production and produce lower cost vehicles and use U.S. dealerships for their entry to the U.S market, this will overall be a major negative to GM in the long term.
It is costing GM more to keep those three brands than it would cost to buy out dealers and shutter those non-essential brands that combined only account for 1.8% of the U.S. market as of 2008, while the Nissan brand alone accounts for 6 times more market share, the writting seems to be on the wall for this one.
Buick right now seems in trouble, as well as pontiac but both brands can be saved by being relegated to importing successful international automobiles. Buick becomes an importer for some high end Opel cars to the U.S., while Pontiac could import most of the Holden Austrailia line under their Pontiac banner to the U.S. this would allow the entire Pontiac/Buick/GMC line to exist with little to no investment or upkeep from GM, which would allow GM to be able to focus on turning around/creating new products for both Cadillac and Chevrolet.
Internationall there are opportunities for consolidation as well. GM should absolutely retain Opel as they are integral to the company and will provide products and logistics for other divisions, my main recomendation would be to eliminate Vauxhall and rebrand it as opel, having that one brand for just Britain is a drain on the company and is an unneccesary cost that can be avoided. this will be a benefit to strengthen the Opel brand as well as cutting costs.
The same logic is used for allowing Holden Austrailia to take over the Daewoo division rebranding the entire division as Holden Worldwide, significantly slimming down their overlap and investment costs and capitalizing on the Holden name and logo.
these steps will get GM on the right track to completely reinvigorate their business and return to their core values while removing brands that severely drain cash from the company as well as massive overlap. by taking the above mentioned steps they will be better positioned to grow their market share in the U.S. and internationally and will be better able to understand and respond to market shifts and changes in consumer tastes. GOOD LUCK GM!!!
Hylton Jorssen
Leanne,
Thank you for commenting. I am not sure what GM does with the survey results or how those questions were determined but if you want to really get an idea of what the public thinks of GM products, get behind the wheel of a 6 year old GM car and drive it for a month. I encourage you and all senior executives within GM to do this. Only then will you understand the perception you are up against.
It’s pretty easy for senior management to not understand public perception when they are continously driving new products. That’s important as well but please just take one month out of a year and drive a 6 year old GM vehicle. You’ll be surprised with how this will help you achieve your goals!