Volt Chief to Have Electric Homecoming
By Frank Weber
Global Vehicle Line Executive, Voltec System, Chevrolet Volt and Opel Ampera
It was just about two years ago my family moved from Germany, where I was part of the Opel engineering team, to the United States to join the Chevrolet Volt team. We haven’t regretted a moment. My family and I believe the Chevrolet Volt is something truly transformational for our industry.
Yet while Detroit is where I live, Germany is my “home,” which is why I’m excited to meet with European media and provide them with an update on the development on the Volt and Voltec system. While I am there, I’ll also take some time to visit my Alma Matter, the Technical University of Darmstat, to visit with the students.
The timing of this visit is especially important. There’s a great deal of anticipation for the reveal of the Voltec powered Opel Ampera at the Geneva Motor Show in March. The Ampera extended-range electric vehicle will be well suited to the daily driving habits of most European customers who regularly travel less than the Ampera’s 60 km all-electric range. Most importantly, the Ampera will be true to its roots by offering the distinctive styling, dynamic efficiency, versatility and affordability European customers have come to expect from Opel.
I’ll also be using this opportunity to address comparisons between the Opel Ampera and Chevrolet Volt and the ever-growing number of extended-range, “range-extended” and battery electric vehicle offerings by manufacturers from around the world. This may seem like a tall task, but the reality is that most comparisons end with anyone of the responses below:
- The Opel Ampera and Chevrolet Volt are production programs designed to meet the needs of thousands of customers (not a modified production vehicle for fleet or demo drives.)
- The Opel Ampera and Chevrolet Volt will meet all safety standards for North America, Europe and Asia.
- The Opel Ampera and Chevrolet Volt will give most drivers a petroleum-free daily driving experience without range-anxiety associated with battery electric vehicles
- The Opel Ampera and Chevrolet Volt will offer a fun and highly refined driving experience
Simply put, we like how the Opel Ampera and Chevrolet Volt will measure up against the competition. And knowing this, makes going home even easier.
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Great job in the styling department. It almost resembles an Acura.
Keep up the good work.
…well suited to the daily driving habits of most European customers who regularly travel less than the Ampera’s 60 km all-electric range. “
You say the Ampera will have a range up to 60 km with the Voltec drive system. Bob Lutz says the Volt will have a range up to 40 miles with the Voltec. But 60 km doesn’t equal 40 miles. (60 km = 37.3 miles)
Why the difference? Why will the Ampera have a lower range than the Volt? And is that maximum range with all power equipment turned off, or the actual usable range under normal driving conditions?
Thank you for sharing this with us. I am elated that such a program can be launched at a global level, which is the level we need to focus on if we really want to impact oil consumption and greenhouse concerns.
Augie,
The difference probably comes in the fact that 60km is a nice round number. Would you have preferred that he said “…Ampera’s 64.37376 km all-electric range? That just sounds dumb.
When I first saw the image without reading the headline, I thought this is an Acura, but they are minimizing the grille and it looks much better. Oh Well, it looks much better than the Volt styling to me. I mean we all love German cars and their styling. Why do we always get something different for US and it is always more frumpy looking? Why can’t they unify styling in all markets like the German cars? Hello – wouldn’t this save money? The success of Euro cars in the US is proven and the only reason they don’t sell more is because the cost more.
Now, I wonder what is going to happen to Saturn since it has been announce they might be sold. Saturn’s are rebranded Opels. So I guess they are reusing the Opel styling.
“That just sounds dumb.”
May sound dumb, but would be true. Which do you prefer? I’d go with truth ~ especially with regards to the actual range under realistic driving conditions. Not what the maximum might be in the improbable event a drive turns off all the power equipment off.
Actually, driving conditions and power consumption vary so much, they should be giving a spread of numbers, instead of a single hard number such as 40 miles or 60 km. For example: “The Volt may go as far as 32 -40 miles on a single charge, depending on conditions and the driver’s choice of power equipment.”
Another big variable is how far the owner wishes to discharge the battery. It’s not good for Li-ion batteries to be pushed into “deep discharge” every charge-discharge cycle. Along with buying a Volt, GM will have to offer some detailed customer education on how best to manage the battery. It won’t be just a simple case of unplug from the wall, climb in, fasten the seat belt, and turn the switch on. Those owners who know best how to manage their batteries will get the best results over the life of the car. Those owners who don’t know (or care) about how their batteries work and continually take them into “deep discharge” will shorten the lives of their batteries and increase their driving cost.
I assume that GM will have some type of recording package built into the Volt, Ampera, and Converj that will allow them to see how many times the battery went into deep discharge so they have that info when dissatisfied customers come in for a new battery under warranty. I wouldn’t want to be the first GM dealer who has to face a customer after having to say, “Sorry Sir, but your car’s records show you exceeded the allowed number of deep discharge cycles. We’ll be happy to install a new battery, but you will have to pay for it. Oh, and by the way, may we recommend taking GM’s special course on proper battery management?”
That also raises the question of whether the owner or dealer will be required to pass along the battery’s history when selling a used Volt, Ampera, or Converj. That’s certainly something I’d want to see when considering buying one.
Yeah I agree… the styling is anything but what I’m used to seeing from GM. However once again why is this a euro only vehicle. We get stuck in the US with less exciting looking cars and for some reason can never get them here.
How about bringing the whole Opel brand over and dropping Saturn and Pontiac. Opel has a lot of cars that people seem to be interested in.
Why not just call it the “Opel Volt”. Why change the name to Volt’s sibling. Hmm, I wonder if Holden will come out with a EREV and call it “Holden Watty”
Calling the Volt as the Volt in any continent makes sense and instead of changing the name and saying “Volt is really Ampera in Europe and Watty in Australia”…
Nate
The thing with Opel is like the “grass is always greener on the other side”. It seems to me that there have been other cases of cars from across the pond that people ask for, then when they get here they do not sell very well.
Augie
As stated above 60km is a generic number for laymen. I am pretty sure that will be an average for the way most people will use the vehicle.
As for the deep cycle discharge if I understand it correctly the powerplant will be controlled to prevent that from happening. Once the battery gets to a certain state of charge the range extender will run to prevent the deep cycling.
Sure with all these precisions, the Ampera will be my next car.
JC NPNS
Are you listening GM Canada? Canada has just earmarked $12 billion for automotive credits for consumer loans and leases. Start advertize agressively now to sell all your inventory. If you can just get 50% of it, that means $6 billion for your coffer in 2009. You will have a better chance of survival. Besides, the money will move faster than the $825 billion US stimulus package.
It has been a great improvement to take body styles from the japanese and chinese. The infiniti FX35 body is the greatest thing to hit GM cross overs. Hopefully they will continue this trend giving the body’s of GM vehicles style by following in the foot steps of foreign car makers.
Tim, maybe 60km is correct and eth Volt really only goes 37.3 miles on battery alone. Will that 2.7 miles make you walk away from it? It won’t leave you stranded, BTW, unless you forget to top off teh auxillary fuel tank.
But here is where I wonder if 37-40 miles in all-electric mode is enough of a difference. I have several friends whose daily commute will not be in all-electric mode and for them a smaller vehicle with 150 mile range on battery would better fit their needs. Did you know that even the famous Baker Eelectric could go 100 miles between charges? And a 1975 Grepke-built plug-in hybrid vehicle laid claim to an all-electric range of 50 miles? How far we have come.
It’s not like the vehicle will go 40 miles or 60 kilometers and then stop. These numbers, I am sure are rounded to some degree. As far as any discharge problem, I am sure GM is setting up the controls to give optimal life and the customer WILL just “unplug from the wall, climb in, fasten the seat belt, and turn the switch on. ” Testing is going on right now as I understand it. (On mule cars)
How will the electric vehicles provide the heat required in northern climates? Will the gas engine have to start initially to provide heat?
“How will the electric vehicles provide the heat required in northern climates? Will the gas engine have to start initially to provide heat?”
How will we use those nifty, cutting-edge, flat-screen controls while wearing gloves in a cold climate?
Electric vehicles will probably just use electrical resistance heating, like the coil in a heated seat. it should be much nicer, as a heating element heats up very quickly as opposed to waiting for the engine to warm up. Battery packs will probably be outfitted with heating coils too just like cars in northern climates are fitted with block heaters.
“I am sure GM is setting up the controls to give optimal life…”
I wouldn’t bet the farm on it Chuck. After all, GM is the company that gave us the Chevy Vega and planned obsolescence.
Question: If I buy a Volt, fill up the gas tank, drive less then 40 miles between charges for a year, will the gas go stale and cause problems with the engine? It would in my lawn mower.
The battery range of the Opel Ampera and Chevy Volt is identical. The Volt and Ampera are both up to 60 km of all-electric driving on the European drive cycle, and they are both up to 40 miles on the EPA city and highway drive cycle. There are two different cycles involved in calculating the mileage numbers, so comparing the two numbers is like comparing apples to oranges. The Chevy Volt will be offered in Europe as well, which is why we wouldn’t call the Opel by the same name. It also has a typical HVAC system. In extremely cold weather climates, the engine will turn on to “pre-condition” (warm-up) the battery.
Obama granting California waiver is not a bad news. In fact, it could be a boon for the Volt! GM should definitely allocate a bigger portion of the production Volts to Califonia and 16 other states if they get their waiver. So now go ahead and sell 6 million Volts a year globally!!!!
The spin-off of Saab is a great move. GM can now concentrate on Cadillac. You should also stop selling Cadillac in Europe. It’s impossible to fight BMW, Merc, Audi and Jaguar on their home turf. The Europeans will surely prefer their home-made brands, just like we do here. It’s a matter of pride. Focus on the US market and Cadillac will do well. In fact, I see Cadillac becoming America’s best selling luxury brand. Cadillacs can be exported to markets such as Russia, South America, and Middle East, especially the V-Series models. Just bring out the AT3 and DT7 sedans ASAP.
It’s great news that GM has regained control of GMAC. Cerberus should be kicked out of the auto industry ASAP.
The new SRX is a winner. It should be marketed aggressively again Lexus RX 330, Lexus’ perennial best-seller. Especially the AWD version.
The vehicle has to manage the battery state-of-charge or you’d have tons of issues over battery warranty.
Yes, the actual mileage may vary, but where do you draw the line if you quote a range? 40 miles as a rule-of-thumb is reasonable, I think. Hopefully that is how far you can expect to get on about 1/2 the full charge to avoid deep-discharging the battery pack.
Here’s where specsmanship comes in. Are the quoted ranges for the Baker and Grepke vehicles to full discharge, or are they conservative? Did they know as much about battery durability back in the early 1900s when the Bakers were built? How many complete charge-discharge cycles were allowed at that range? It makes good press to quote those comparisons, but are you comparing apples to apples?
“The Chevy Volt will be offered in Europe as well, which is why we wouldn’t call the Opel by the same name.”
Why? Is it smart to be competing against yourself? Does that mean you will also offer the Opel Ampera in North America? (Several have commented they like the looks of the Opel better, plus they’d get the functionality of a five-door.)
“There are two different cycles involved in calculating the mileage numbers, so comparing the two numbers is like comparing apples to oranges.”
60 km (37.3 miles) on the Euro drive cycle and 40 miles on the U.S. drive cycle. That doesn’t make sense. You seem to be saying Europeans drive less efficiently than Americans.
Question:
Mr Colley,
When you say “…up to 60 km” and “…up to 40 miles” aren’t those the maximum ranges under ideal conditions when the driver has all power equipment turned off?
Why can’t GM be honest and use the actual range under what one might call “normal conditions” with the sound system on, either the A/C or heater on, and using the headlights at night? (And actually, quite a few people use their headlights 24/7 for safety reasons.)
Augie, we currently offer flat-screen controls and I can personally say that they seem to work fairly well with gloves – I’ve been doing it in an Enclave for a month now in the single-digits (no pun intended).
“It also has a typical HVAC system. In extremely cold weather climates, the engine will turn on to “pre-condition” (warm-up) the battery.”
When does the ICE turn on when cold, and how long does it take to warm up the battery?
Could it be that in cold climates, a driver might rarely get to use the all-electric mode?
Let’s say that where I live it was -15F this morning and I commute about five miles one way. I’d guess at -15F the Volt would operate in its “Let’s start the ICE to warm up the battery” mode. Would the ICE have warmed up the battery enough by the time I go my five miles that the car would ever get into the all-electric mode during my commute?
Is the Volt going to be a Southern-tier, fair weather car?
JohnP,
I agree with you. I don’t care that GM says the Volt will go 40 miles and the Ampera 60km. I was just pointing out to Augie that, like you said, shouldn’t make you walk away from it.
And to respond to Augie: When someone asks you the time, do you tell that person the time down the peta second? Or do you round it off to the nearest couple of minutes? I mean, rounding it of, isn’t telling the truth. So I guess you are lieing everytime you tell someone the time.
Buddy Del Rio,
GM has changed since those days. If you think they are the same company with the same philosophy, then why don’t you think Mitsubishi isn’t the same company with the same philosophy they had when the were building Zero’s for the sole purpose of shooting down American pilots during WWII?
Phil Colley, GM Advanced Technology Communications,
Why can’t we get any Opel products in the US?
Seriously I love the styling that Opel has with the Insignia and now the Ampera.
Please tell us why GM insists on only offering their cool looking cars in Europe.
I can’t help but wonder what GM execs are thinking to not offer the Opel brands over here.
A reply from GM would be greatly appreciated.
David,
Sure when the cars get here they remove all the good stuff and somehow alter them or raise the price. The second problem is GM is then competing with itself. What they need to do is eliminate a few US brands bring Opel over for a while as a “Hey look we’re new and improved” And see how they sell with the current US market.
…as for the deep cylce discharge question – I have previously read that the recharge mode will kick in once the batteries hit 30% charge remaining thus preventing the issue.
Buddy Dean,
Did you find those references next to the mimeograph machine or the rotary-dial telephone? Maybe in your Rolodex or perhaps you heard it from the guy at the soda fountain?
“I have previously read that the recharge mode will kick in once the batteries hit 30% charge remaining thus preventing the issue.”
JDC,
That sounds logical and is probably true. But that also means the practical capacity of the battery is only 70% of advertised. Does that also carry over to the 40 mile range? Does that mean 70% of 40 (or 28 miles) will be a more realistic expected range?
Chevy Volt, Opel Ampera, Cadillac Converj ~ all with the same drive train but with different styling, fit and finish, accessories, and appointments to appeal to different demographics.
The problem is it appears the Volt will be priced well above the normal blue-collar, Chevy demographic. Why not re brand the Volt as a Buick and bring back that classic name from the 1960s and 70s ~ the Electra? What name could be more fitting?
TZobl said, “Question: If I buy a Volt, fill up the gas tank, drive less then 40 miles between charges for a year, will the gas go stale and cause problems with the engine? It would in my lawn mower.”
This is an excellent question. An engine must be run on a regular basis to remain operational. GM has never addressed the issue that TZobl raises (but I sure they have thought of this).
But I would like to hear GM comment on it.
Augie,
That’s not what it means. The battery is maintained in a charge state above 30% so the range inclues that 30% of the charge that is never used. This is to maintain battery life – deeply cycling the battery will shorten it’s life and is one of the primary reasons some EV’s have longer ranges but shorter battery life.
“The battery is maintained in a charge state above 30% so the range includes that 30% of the charge that is never used. “
David,
Do you know that for a fact, or is that just what you think? Are you sure that when Bob Lutz says, “…up to 40 miles on a single-charge.” he is thinking in terms of 70% of battery capacity and not a full charge? (My personal hunch is that when talking about the max range of the Volt, GM will use whatever number sounds best, and using 100% of battery capacity would give a better marketing number than the range at 70% battery capacity.)
It would be nice to hear the Volt’s chief engineer confirm the real numbers about battery capacity, battery cycles, and actual max range under normal driving conditions.
Will GM have a special education program for Volt, Ampera, and Converj owners so they can get the best from their cars?
GM says you can drive 40 miles without burning a drop of gasoline. That means you will get 40 miles before the engine turns on. Not 28 miles
Yes, the engine will kick on when the battery state of charge reaches a certain level. I’m not sure what this level is, but if you’re going to have a feature like this, you’d think it would be a SAFE level for the battery to reach (not a deep discharge).
Augie, you ask some intelligent questions, but all of this information is out on the web already. It sounds more like you’re trying to discredit a product you don’t know that much about.
Also, search for pictures of the Saturn Flextreme. This was a Saturn concept that looks strikingly like the Opel Ampera. I saw it at the North American International Auto show in January 2008.
Ooops, one more:
Regarding the US vs. European driving schedules. Roads and speed limits are different in Europe than they are in the US. As a result, when car companies and country governments test cars to determine fuel economy, the drive cycles are made to be generally representative of the area in which the vehicle will be driven.
I am not familiar with the European driving cycle, but I bet it has different speeds, acceleration rates, and distances than the US driving cycles.
As for the question about if the range is based on ‘real world’ or ‘ideal’ conditions. I don’t know the answer in terms of the Volt/Ampera/E-Flex system, but I know in the US when they test for fuel economy, they run several different tests (city driving, highway driving, hot temperature driving (Air Conditioning), cold temperature driving, aggressive driving) and average the results to give you an overall fuel economy. That definitely doesn’t sound like ‘ideal conditions’ to me
.
t would make sense that if you plan to sell the volt in the US, you would test it according to the US driving cycle; and if you sell the Ampera in Europe, you would test it according to the European cycle. I hope this clarifies a few things!
Phil Colley said: “The Chevy Volt will be offered in Europe as well, which is why we wouldn’t call the Opel by the same name.”
Would you be so kind as to explain the reason for that? Doesn’t that make Chevy and Opel competitors in Europe? I’m sure your marketing people have their reasons, but on the surface it seems counterintuitive. Is it a factor of:
Cost ~ Do you plan to sell the Volt for less in Europe than the Ampera?
Demographics ~ Do you expect a different class of people buy the Volt v. the Ampera? (I’ve lived in Germany, and in my opinion Opel and Chevy seem to appeal to about the same demographic.)
Function ~ The Ampera will be a 5-door hatchback while the Volt will be a sedan. Europeans tend to favor hatchbacks, so is the Volt a way to offer an electric sedan in Europe? But if so, why not just offer the Ampera in sedan and hatchback versions? Will you then bring the Ampera to North America for those here who would like the utility of a hatchback electric? Or, do you plan to instead eventually offer a hatchback version of the Volt?
Can you please explain the thinking for selling the Volt in Europe? We are all ears.
Frank,
This is very good move for GM. GM should do the same with Cadillac Converj et Chevy Orlando. Opel Ampera could come to America as a Saturn or a Buick. With these 4 vehicles using the same Voltec propulsion system but with different styling, fit and finish, accessories, and appointments, GM will for sure have all the ingredients needed to appeal to different demographics and people needs.
I’m very excited about the Volt but I am concerned that being priced at $40K USD makes the payout longer than the vehicle’s economic or mechanical life. I would like to see a more basic model priced in the $20-25K USD range.
“GM says you can drive 40 miles without burning a drop of gasoline. That means you will get 40 miles before the engine turns on. Not 28 miles.”
Dave,
Apparently it depends on whom at GM you ask. At an October press conference in NYC, Volt’s chief engineer Frank Weber said, “The Volt, which has a range of 40 miles (when all power equipment has been turned off, including air-conditioner, stereo and headlights), is an “extended-range electric vehicle.” Volt range anxiety
It seemed pretty clear that Weber told the press 40 miles would be the range only under a certain condition ~ when ALL power equipment is off.
Understandably, the useful range of the Volt will be highly variable depending on parameters such as temperature (is the heater or A/C on); did the ICE first need to warm up the battery; time of day (are the headlights on); and whether the driver turns any other powered equipment on, and that 28 miles (or 32, or 34) will be closer to the norm on a single charge than 40.
A practical range of less than 40 wouldn’t keep me from buying one, but I’d like GM to be upfront about it, instead of resorting to what is probably marketing hype whenever they say, “…up to 40 miles.”
Augie,
Why are you so concerned with the actual milage? Do you question all the other EPA numbers. Because they’re aren’t many people that get exactly what the EPA says a car will. Most people are either higher or lower. The same thing will probably happen with the Volt. Some will get more than 40 miles, and some will get less than 40 miles. I can understand why you would be concerned if the milage was significantly off, but the 40 miles vs 37.3 isn’t that big of a deal. Maybe it would have been better if GM hadn’t said nything about electric range, but then I bet you’d be on here asking what they expect the electric range to be.
I’m willing to bet a lot of money, the 40 mile range is based off a battery charge of less than 100%. Deep cycling a battery hurts the life, and GM wouldn’t do that. I bet if they allowed a deep discharge, it would get more than 40 miles. I bet even when “fully charged” it won’t be at 100%, it’ll be at something like 90% for the same durability reasons.
Also, you are comlaining that GM say “up to 40 miles” before the ICE kicks in. Everyone uses that same wording. When you buy walkie-talkies they lways say “up to X miles of range”. Of course it’s not going to work if the two people are on opposite sides of a mountain even if they are withing X miles. Also, most battery makers say the battery life is “up to X hours” Why are you treating GM different when they do the same thing?
One question I do have is how GM expects to keep the gasoline engine ready in the case it’s not used for a very long time. I have faith they will figure something out, but it would be cool to know how.
Indeed charging and discharging the battery marginally is something that’s been done on hybrids for some time now. The first Prius introduced in Japan in 1997 discharged and charged the battery almost fully. As a result the battery didn’t last as long. The first generation shipped to the US in 2000 came equipped with an updated system that only charges the battery 40-60% or so. Thus this is a very well known tactic for squeezing more life out of a battery and what I assume will be used on the Volt.
Augie,
Lutz has explained this several times on several blogs. Under optimal conditions the vehicle will go 40 miles on a charge. It’s obviously not going to do that when the ambient temperature is 10F and the driver insists on an interior temperature of 85F. Nor is it going to be able to do that when the ambient temperature is 105F and the driver insists on an interior temperature of 65F.
It has been explaines that that for maximum battery life the battery is maintained above 30% charge and somewhere below 100% charge and that the useable range of the battery before the powertrain is fired up is within that window and will allow 40 miles of electric range under ideal conditons.
I don’t know what the mystery is. It’s not like if the vehicle only goes 37 miles for a given customer they are getting some sort of short shrift; some other customer may be able to go 42 miles by having a better route or demanding less of the climate control, acceleration, or other features of the vehicle.
Splitting hairs over this “range” issue is really beside the point. Most people who drive use less than 40 miles of range and they will use either no fuel or a tiny amount of fuel driving a vehicle like the Volt vs a regular car. It’s not a pure EV and it’s never going to be one. A pure EV has only a battery, much less capability and ultimate range and much higher pricing.
The SUV is dead. You should kill the Chevy Tahoe and GMC Yukon. The Traverse and Acadia can replace them as 8-passenger crossovers. For added towing power, you can use AWD. The Escalade should move to Lambda as a full-size crossver vs the SRX as a mid-size crossover. The GMT900 platform only has future in the pickup truck line.
You should update the Delta platform with multilink independent rear suspension. Torsion beam is 80’s technology. This is the 21 st century. Ask Opel to redesign the Aveo and not Daewoo, and build it in Mexico. If you don’t listen to me, I expect Ford to gain significant market share with the Fiesta and New Focus. You don’t need an engine plant in Flint. Europe can handle it. The $370 million can be put to good use.
I read the comments from other blog that Honda is obviously gaining market share from Toyota. A Camry made in Kentucky has inferior quality than a Camry made in Japan or an Accord made in Marysville, Ohio. No wonder the Accord is the mid-size bestseller for 3 years in a row. Ironiclly Kentucky is the homestate of Gettelfinger. I also expect Honda to gain significant share with the Insight Hybrid which starts at $18,000. You can recoup your investment earlier compared with the Prius.
The Phoenix V6 engine from Chrysler is simply fantastic. It uses less aluminum and costs $300 less per GM engine. Think about it. 300 times 10 million cars equals $3 billion profit in a year. And it makes 280 hp vs GM’s 263hp.
The more I learn about GM and UAW the more i feel disgusted! There are so many Passion-killers around who have no desire in building Great Cars. I say Good Riddance to them!!!!
Hello there,
I am German. Just to clarify: Chevrolet and Opel are not quite competing in Europe. Chevrolet sells it’s Korean cars over here (with the HHR currently being to only American car) and is clearly positioned lower than Opel. OK, Opel still has way to go in image to be on par with Audi, but clearly is with VW. You can tell blindfolded if you sit in an Opel or Euro-Chevy. Interior materials, available options etc. it’s a far more developed experience than Chevrolet.
Usually, 6-cylinder engines do not play a significant role here for the majority of people (but in general, our 4cyls are much more technically refined as any thing sold in the US) – but available options can make an Opel Astra have sticker price of about 40000$ incl. taxes. Be surprised, a C-class Mercedes is sold with several 4cyl options here before the 6cyls kick in! Even BMW and Audi sell the majority in 4cyl compact cars. Also, many people drive station wagons here – the SUV thing has never taken off so much here. Most Mid- or Heavy-SUV drivers live on the countryside and have a trailer of some kind to pull with it.
Chevrolet is doing quite well to serve the lower end market and Opel is striving to reach a more sophisticated image (as said, not quite there yet) – so it makes perfectly sense to sell Ampera and Volt here! BTW – I find Ampera a cumbersome name – all the Opel names end on “a” it’s so … constructed.
I find it quite funny, when the readers here demand the great Opel cars for the US market. In Europe, they are only doing so-so, unfortunately. Nearly too expensive for blue collar, but not the performance (yet) to attract upper level customers. I hope they will do well in the future.
For those in dispair for an Opel, got to http://www.opel.de , switch to English and try yourself in the car configurator. You will be surprised about the options and the price!!! You can tick off between 10 and 15% of the sticker price for the street price.
Have a nice week end!
SuAlfons
(running a 2005 Astra Station with 1.7ltr 100HP Diesel at >39mpg incl. Autobahn)
“Lutz has explained this several times on several blogs.”
David,
It would be nice then if he also explained it on this website ~ what I thought was the official GM blog.
“Splitting hairs over this “range” issue is really beside the point.”
It’s not a question of “splitting hairs.” It’s a question of honest tech data vs. what appears to be nothing more than marketing hype. If I were buying an airplane from Boeing, Cessna, or Beechcraft I would get detailed information on range, performance, fuel consumption, etc. Why can’t we get the same from GM about their cars?
When Bob Lutz plans a cross-country flight in his L-39 Albatros, he doesn’t have to settle for nothing better than, “Range up to 950 miles.” Instead, the manufacturer provides a pilot’s handbook that will tell exactly what the range and fuel burn will be at specific power settings, airspeeds, altitudes, gross weights, etc.
“You can tell blindfolded if you sit in an Opel or Euro-Chevy. Interior materials, available options etc. it’s a far more developed experience than Chevrolet. Chevrolet is doing quite well to serve the lower end market and Opel is striving to reach a more sophisticated image (as said, not quite there yet) – so it makes perfectly sense to sell Ampera and Volt here!”
Vielen dank SuAlfons. That is interesting. You are a better source of information than GM. I lived in Germany for a few years, but that was some 20 years ago. By your report, Opel seems to have upgraded their image since then. I had not realized the standard Opel had progressed so far past Chevrolet.
“I read the comments from other blog that Honda is obviously gaining market share from Toyota. A Camry made in Kentucky has inferior quality than a Camry made in Japan or an Accord made in Marysville, Ohio.”
That’s an interesting comment since its been proven that the KY-made Camry actually has less problems per car than those made in Japan. The same is true with the Accord. I can also personally back up this claim since my family has owned two Kentucky-built Toyotas: A 92′ Camry that we traded in at 220,000 miles and a 98 Avalon that my Brother now drives with well over 245,000 miles. Neither have been in the shop to speak of. My Fremont California built Tacoma has almost 220,000 miles, and guess what? The thing has “GM” stamped on the radiator.
Competing with yourself isn’t necessarily a bad thing.. it’s what got Nokia its 40% share of the global cell phone market. That said, there is a slight difference between cars and cell phones, so I’m not sure how good an idea it is to compete with yourself in the auto market. But generally speaking, the larger the share of the total amount of different products the customer can select from comes from your factories, the better.
Regarding the charge/discharge discussion, I’m wondering what the car does if you give it a full charge and let it sit for a period of time, seeing as li-ion batteries degrade at an awful rate when fully charged.
“It’s a question of honest tech data vs. what appears to be nothing more than marketing hype.”
Augie,
GM’s engineers have the exact answers to all your questions. It’s a question of what GM’s lawyers and marketing people allow them to say. You’ll just have to pretend your a mushroom and be satisfied with “marketing hype.”
Emil, Sweden ~ “Regarding the charge/discharge discussion, I’m wondering what the car does if you give it a full charge and let it sit for a period of time, seeing as li-ion batteries degrade at an awful rate when fully charged.”
That’s a good question Emil.
Let’s say a driver parks a Volt at in long-term parking at an international airport while taking a much needed February vacation in Majorca. After several weeks sitting in the airport parking lot, how much of a charge would the Li-ion have left? Not a problem of course as long as the driver made sure there was fuel for the range-extender internal combustion engine, but an interesting question nevertheless.
If the driver had made only short trips for several months before parking long term and the ICE hadn’t kicked in during that time, would there be a potential problem with stale fuel?
Augie,
He has explained it on this website.
http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/archives/2008/11/volt_the_next_phase.html
I would guess information in that kind of detail might be available when it’s actually known.. All of the products you mentioned are fully developed products with complete data on production units. The Volt isn’t that – yet.
Augie,
You’re 100% correct that right now it is pure marketing hype. The vehicle isn’t in production yet, nor has the EPA conducted any official tests to develop their figure for MPG and whatever else they deem necessary. I highly doubt that if you were going to buy a plane from Boeing, Cessna, or any other company that was still in development, you would get rounded figures and approximations because the final statistics aren’t known at the time. Once the vehicle is ready for production in 2010, then more detailed statistics will be available. It’s unreasonable to expect that data any sooner.
TZobl, add Sta-Bil (brand) or other fuel stabilizer to the tank of any vehicle whose engine is not operated regularly. today’s gas goes stale much faster than in years past.
Tim, when someone asks the time in our small geographic anamoly we tell them not the exact time, but the time it’s going to be. Example if it is 4:50, then we say 10 to 5. Same with age, it’s always not current age but what we’ll be next birthday. We also give directions based on landmarks that no longer exist.
The Volt design is cleaner looking – the Opel Ampera looks like an untypical design for an Opel – like it was designed in Japan – and definitely I can tell you Bob Lutz was not in on it!
BTW, who came up with the name – Ampera? Just call it Amp.
Most people are also unaware that Opel was one of the first manufacturers to start producing electric cars in the 1920’s – thus the electric bolt is the corporate symbol/badge – so for Opel it is truly back to its roots – only one company that can say that at the moment.
Opel should play this heritage up when unveiling the Ampera – the name doesn’t sound right even as I type it – anyone took the time to see how difficult it will be for people speaking German, Russian, Spanish and Italian to pronounce this (among other languages)?
Augie: “You seem to be saying Europeans drive less efficiently than Americans.”
The test driving cycle is different in Europe. We have a lot more stop/start traffic due to the volume of cars on the smaller roads plus the routes are older and less efficient in design consisting of a lot more stop/start traffic due to lights/roundabouts etc. Therefore we slow down and accelerate more often giving increased fuel consumption. I have noticed that I get much better fuel economy in US cars on US roads than I do in the very same imported US cars on UK roads.
“Buddy Dean, Did you find those references next to the mimeograph machine or the rotary-dial telephone?”
David,
Sure it sounds anachronistic, and one would hope GM would never produce another Vega.
But, corporate cultures are not easy to change. GM was responsible for the Vega in the 1970s, and unfortunately, they have the live with that legacy, plus also try to figure out what in their corporate culture ever made them try to sell such a p.o.c. to American auto buyers.
I bet a dollar to a donut that GM’s engineers at the time knew exactly what the Vega was, but that the bean counters and so-called marketing geniuses at corporate headquarters held sway putting Vega on showroom floors anyway.
It’s a legitimate question — has GM been able to root out the embedded corporate culture that led to the Vega? One would hope the answer is yes, but once a corporation has a culture and it is intertwined in how a corporation thinks, it becomes very difficult to change.
Buddy Dean – What do you think? After witnessing what GM has been putting into the showrooms at the dealerships why would anyone still want to try and hang onto the past sins. To me it’s a positive sign GM is on the right track making excellent cars and trucks when all one can do to question GM and their new products is to still try to talk about what once was.
Keep up the good work GM !!! The nay sayers are running out of negative comments.
I AM GM
SuAlfons, Germany,
Its great to hear some feedback from people more familiar with Opel. From over here in the US Opel appears to be about on par with VW or a low end Audi….
I think everything you state is what people like myself are waiting to see show up in the US. Smaller cars with higher end options.
Could you please post more details about Opel? Have you driven the Insignia? Do you think it is on par with a US Acura or High end Honda or a Toyota?
Is the Insignia a fun car to drive?
I’m just curious after comparing the specifications of the LaCrosse and Insignia The Insignia looks to be more inline with a VW Passat.
Thanks For the feedback I hope GM listens to what you said and realizes the US market is behind the foreign competition.
GMisCARKING,
Tell that to my friend who just had his Chrysler engine die on him at 80K miles after somehow losing all its oil (he has no idea how). There are times price is meaningful other times I’d rather pay more to get a better product rather then be ripped off with a high profit product that is crap.
Coming — the new Organization of Lithium Exporting Countries: Bolivia, Argentina, and Chile. Lithium deposits could power Bolivia’s future
Another question I have is in regards to the battery life if the car is not driven for long periods. We have a old generation Prius. Apparently, if these cars sit for say- 6 months- the battery can basically drain and in some cases be rendered useless and have to be replaced. That seems like a major problem if you ask me. How does Lithium hold up in storage? Its not uncommon for people to have to work overseas or do some work across country and leave their cars at home.
To the employees and especially the executives at GM:
Since I have essentially already bought a car from you with taxpayer bailout money (without my consent) I don’t ever intend to purchase another vehicle from you…EVER….I wouldn’t care if you developed an engine that ran on carbon dioxide and produced oxygen.
A must read article in February 3rd edition of the Financial Times about the current state of the automobile industry worldwide – the conclusion – any future growth will be in India and China.
go to FT.com and search under ‘The Thrill is Gone’ or click on the link below…
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/68d072bc-f194-11dd-8790-0000779fd2ac.html?nclick_check=1
JT,
That’s a very short-sighted attitude to take. Hopefully you will reconsider. Americans deserve to be supported and American companies are the cornerstone of our economy.
JT Please share with us why the negative feelings. Is it because of the loans? Being more spesific would help us understand your dissatisfaction.
IAG
More on the lithium deposits in Boliva in today’s New York Times: In Bolivia, Untapped Bounty Meets Nationalism
“…almost half of the world’s lithium, the mineral needed to power the vehicles, is found here in Bolivia — a country that may not be willing to surrender it so easily.”
We’ve had the petro wars, when will the lithium wars start?
Our strategy for a multi-brand approach is simple: the Chevrolet Volt and Opel Ampera are unique product offerings that offer European customers a choice. Whereas Chevrolet is GM’s top-selling brand globally, Opel is GM’s number one selling brand in Europe. And although Chevrolet is a relatively new brand to Europe, it is one of the fastest growing brands in the continent (Chevrolet sales were up 10.7% in 2008). The Volt is being engineered to meet all global safety standards, and consistent with the strength of the brand, will also be sold globally (North America, Europe and China). The Ampera will be sold primarily in Europe. Having two unique offerings – both of which are five-door hatchbacks well suited for European tastes – is a powerful advantage in the highly competitive European automotive market place.
While the Volt has a 16kwh battery, it uses only 8kwh to achieve up to 40 miles of EV range. And as noted by others, the charge and discharge cycles are managed by on-board control systems which prevent it from deep discharges and other abuse. We are confident this strategy will ensure we reach the expected 10-year, 150,000-mile life of the battery.
Never using the gas in the tank is a great problem to have and it’s the type of issue our engineers live to solve. We are testing various solutions ranging from periodically starting the engine to onboard circulation systems, but rest assured we’ll have a solution by launch.
Also, to clarify my previous post, the European Drive Cycle is a standardized test by which all vehicles in Europe are measured. This test provides a “yardstick” for comparing how different vehicles will perform over a commonly applied set of driving conditions that include acceleration, braking, stops, travel at various speeds and other driving conditions. In the U.S., the “yardstick” for comparison is the EPA City or Highway drive cycle. The EPA and European Drive Cycle tests are not the same, which explains why the Volt’s range in the United States is communicated as 40 miles, while in Europe it is stated as 60 km.
“Having two unique offerings – both of which are five-door hatchbacks well suited for European tastes – is a powerful advantage in the highly competitive European automotive market place.”
Reading between the lines then, it sounds as though GM doesn’t consider the North American market to be “highly competitive.” Is that right, you don’t need the “powerful advantage” over here that you think selling two “unique” electric cars would give you in Europe?
“While the Volt has a 16kwh battery, it uses only 8kwh to achieve up to 40 miles of EV range. “
In an emergency, will there be an “override” switch allowing the driver to use more than 8kwh of the energy stored in the battery?
@Nate,
Sorry, I did not yet have the chance to drive -or even sit in- an Insignia. For a family car, I am not interested in a sedan at all and the Insignia Station is not my car either. But that’s not about quality, that’s just about the money (I mentioned that a car will cost much more over here, did I?). Tests show that the car is totally on par with a VW Passat, but the Passat wins the tests for one or the other reason. Honda Accord (I see two in a year) Toyota Camry (not offered any more) do play no role in Europe, so I can’t compare. From my experience, everything from Germany has a better interior than the compareable Toyotas, but that still does not make them too ugly to own.
Opels in general have improved their quality and finish significantly in the last 5 years. My dad used to drive Opels for a long time, so I have grown up in them. I personally have driven old VW Golfs while at university, then a smart car and now an Opel Astra Station 2005. My wife still has a Ford Focus 2001, which is quite a disaster (failing engine, gear box, interior falling apart, rust, expensive electric failures never heard about in other cars the list goes on). In fact I never thought of buying an Opel due to my dad’s experience before I started working for GM (no, it’s not what you think – I can be _very_ critic over Opel and my family all drive Mercedes and Audi). Now I know better – the cars are as good as VW, better finished than Fords, more reliable the the Italian and French ones and more and more become better looking, too. Opel is heading the right direction, but they have to overcome their spoiled image.
I can recommend the Astras, Zafiras and Merivas and the small Corsa, too. They are reasonably fun to drive, fuel efficient and in my opinion very good looking. Hybrid is not a big issue in Europe, since we reach fuel efficiency with Diesels (their worse exhaust data has come to public knowledge only recently). For example, my car runs around 40mpg. This is daily commuting and some of the famous Autobahn on the weekends. It has a state of the art diesel, but nothing special at all! One Liter of gas is 1,20 Eur and a liter of Diesel is 1,08 this morning – that’s 5.88$/gal resp. 5.29$/gal. This is relatively cheap last fall the prices have been up to 1,60 Eur/liter… Now you know why SUVs do not take off here
Greetings,
SuAlfons
Phil Colley, GM Advanced Technology Communications,
I’d like to thank you for the response. It is always a great thing to hear directly from GM management.
One question I have (which applies to all GM brands and Models) is this:
Why does GM continue to not offer European models in the US?
It is quite clear to me and others that American Buyers like European styling and car sizes. For example the new Amera I think looks better then both the Volt and the Converj. The same goes to the Opel Insignia compared to the Buick LaCrosse (I am interested in slightly smaller vehicles with European power train offerings).
I just don’t understand it GM’s Opel divison has quite a few hits on their hands but for whatever reason they aren’t being offered in the US. Even if GM offered them on a limited basis it would mean a few more sales.
If the Ampera is US certified anyway why not bring it over?
Why not bring the whole Opel brand over? I think Americans could use something new and fresh. Especially a brand that in the US hasn’t been around for a long time. It could bring a new image as compared with past images of GM. And get rid of some of the stigma around American cars.
GM could market them as European cars.
Again I just don’t get it. Opel has some cool stuff that I would buy, but I can’t get it in the US.
Thanks again for writing and your time.
I AM GM,
I too would have to say I’m rather annoyed by the loans. Here is why:
1) They weren’t necessary. A GM bankruptcy would have settled a lot of legacy problems.
2) It is obvious to most people I know in the US that GM wasn’t doing something right so why help them when they will only continue their pattern.
3) GM management seems to continue to make foolish choices on US products. The recently announced LaCrosse and Converj are good examples of GM turning around. But at the same time cars like the Insignia and Ampera show me and others I know that GM has what it takes but just doesn’t know how to move their resources around the world to meet customer demands.
It is clear to me that Opel has potential. Its a new brand name, it looks European, it hopefully acts
European…. so why not offer it here and recapture lost market share. Again foolish moves on GM not to do so. Again why? We just gave them money to function and survive. The very least they could do is address our concerns and issues with something more then “because we know better”. GM clearly doesn’t know better then customers when it comes to marketing and branding. If this was the case GM wouldn’t have ever needed a loanout.
4) Foolish customer loyalty. After expressing my ideas on this blog I continue to be reminded why GM has problems: Its customer base. Certain of GM’s customers/fans are stuck in the past and can’t look more then a month in the future. Its a big, real problem. And GM continues to cater to these people while ignoring others (perhaps 1/4 or more of their potential customers). As one friend of mine said “GM just doesn’t listen”. GM in its current position needs to be a dynamic living organism able to quickly change and adapt and meet an ever changing market. Currently they show little signs of this ability. Anyone looking at their products can SEE the potential but is left wondering why it goes unused.
To me, the customer, it seems like GM is the same as always. Unwilling to change and continually knowing better.
Those of us who pay taxes want to see the money spent to do good not just to maintain a dieing company. We haven’t seen the evidence yet despite the unveiling of a few cars (some nice others that leave us scratching our heads).
Can you see why some of us have animosity toward GM with regards to the loans?
GM simply hasn’t shown a track history of being able to change and adapt…. (at all) or fast enough.
I AM GM,
Just to be clear on the real issues with the loans… from my point of view GM would rather concentrate on keeping its workers busy producing cars that don’t sell and stuffing their own pockets whenever they can, rather then focusing on their customers.
If this isn’t the case GM hasn’t done a whole lot to change that opinion.
When GM forgets about its customers (like telling them their products are great and don’t need improvement when suggestions are made) then GM’s customers will go elsewhere where the companies listen (Toyota and Honda for instance).
I again see it surfacing with the Opel’s And other foreign cars. GM just thinks the US market isn’t interested in them. I think they are obviously wrong.
Ted Lewandowski,
The Amera looks like an Acura. Its smooth sleek and appears refined. I’d buy one. GM should offer it in the US. The name is Ok but really the cars styling is much nicer then the volt’s in my opinion and the Converj is a close second place to the Ampera.
The name can be changed… doesn’t matter the car is awesome looking. I hope the US gets to see it as an Opel.
Edvard,
So your Toyota has a GM radiator? Certainly not a sophisticated device by today’s standards. And with modern antifreeze I doubt it’ll fail before you get rid of the truck. I’d love to get 220,000 miles on a GM without needing a new engine or automatic transmission. So far its never happened. We’ve never owned a GM that didn’t need a transmission before 200,000 miles. And my family has owned nothing but GMs. Most we either sold before anything major went wrong or we had to replace engine, or transmissions. I asked my father and he told me the same thing. My grandfather even had problems with his GM vehicles… yet we still buy them.. we must be insane…
“It is clear to me that Opel has potential. Its a new brand name, it looks European, it hopefully acts
European…. so why not offer it here and recapture lost market share. Again foolish moves on GM not to do so. Again why? We just gave them money to function and survive. The very least they could do is address our concerns and issues with something more then “because we know better”. GM clearly doesn’t know better then customers when it comes to marketing and branding. If this was the case GM wouldn’t have ever needed a loanout.”
I think it’s pretty clear that GM has too many brands in the US already. Just what it does not need is another brand that no one in the US knows or cares about.
David,
I agree GM needs to dump a few brands but why not bring a new one over to appeal to non GM buyers as the “NEW GM”. Give them a new name, something they can talk about with their friends and not be made fun of for buying GM. Give them great looking European cars and they will buy GMs.
A friend of mine told me “I bought a Honda because its the safe buy and no one is going to harass me for buying one.”
That is just one more reason GM needs a new brand with a new image. The Opels I see are great looking. They would fit in the Buick lineup but with the LaCrosse no one is going to understand why GM needs smaller car (the Insignia).
“I think it’s pretty clear that GM has too many brands in the US already. Just what it does not need is another brand that no one in the US knows or cares about.”
At one time Opel was recognized as a quality GM brand of European “captive import,” sold through Buick dealers. I had a 1966 Opel Kadett, bought it used at a Buick dealer around 1970. I was so impressed with the quality I upgraded to an Opel Manta a couple years later. Unfortunately, a few years later GM tried to pawn off some uninspired Japanese products as Opels, tarnishing the brand in the US for a couple decades.
They still seem to be of the mentality that if you slap a Buick sticker on a Chevy it becomes a Buick. Given the number of platforms, it really isn’t necessary, as each brand could have its own unique platform- or two.
Beaugrand,
I disagree with you. Opel is needed here. The problem is GM’s other names are soiled in the minds of many many buyers. An easy and quick fix is to bring a car to the US with high quality and European looks that attract buyers who currently own foreign cars. A new brand name to take over say… Saturn and Pontiac would give GM a fresh start with buyers and they could get use to a new GM brand name.
You are right GM has to many US brands but too many that are doing it all wrong. Opel is that young, sport luxury/entry level car brand that GM needs.
Opel even has a nice logo that looks modern compared to the likes of Pontiac, Chevy and Saturn.
You are right… many people on here have complained when I asked about a 4 cylinder LaCrosse or a smaller version stating that GM already makes other fine cars with those things. But as you mentioned they aren’t Buicks. Even if GM slaps a Buick logo on them… they aren’t Buicks. GM misses the boat on that.
Actually, Nate, I was quoting David, who said Opel was “…another brand that no one in the US knows or cares about.”
I disagreed, citing the excellent quality German-made Opel products I have owned. It’s the uninspired, inferior, Isuzu-made, Opel-branded, badge-engineered (or “platform shared”) post-1974 products I was criticizing for giving the brand a reputation for blandness.
I have to mention that I don’t mean to criticize Isuzu products; most of the Isuzu-made “T-platform” products available outside the US were decent vehicles. The US market, apparently, only gets the “dumbed down” versions.
“At one time Opel was recognized as a quality GM brand of European “captive import,” sold through Buick dealers. I had a 1966 Opel Kadett, bought it used at a Buick dealer around 1970. I was so impressed with the quality I upgraded to an Opel Manta a couple years later. Unfortunately, a few years later GM tried to pawn off some uninspired Japanese products as Opels, tarnishing the brand in the US for a couple decades.”
Was that the same Opel Kadett that “Car and Driver” put on top of a pile of junk cars at a Junkyard because it was such a pile. Opels sold through Buick dealers were never considered a “quality” captive import.
GM has enough brands in North America to feed and care for; it needs Opel here like it needs a hole in the head.
“GM has enough brands in North America to feed and care for; it needs Opel here like it needs a hole in the head.”
I disagree. If GM wants to be able to promote a quality engineered European brand that can compete with BMW, Mercedes, and Audi, they do need Opel over here.
Opel could be GM’s Euro car, to compete with those other Euro cars that have the perception of exuding quality, engineering, and craftsmanship. That may not really be true, but that’s the perception. Unfortunately, a car GM designs in Detroit and builds in Lordstown or Kansas City will never have the cachet or mystique that a car built in Rüsselsheim, Bochum, or Kaiserslautern will have.
German engineering and craftsmanship has a centuries old reputation ~ whether deserved or not ~ that GM could take advantage of.
Beaugrand,
America always seems to get the dumbed down or over sized vehicles. Which is why they need the Opel product line. They need a line that no one knows about or has heard of so they can build a new reputation with its name. The problem is they have to continue to build quality and not water them down for America.
If they only import a few Opels a year who cares. They can draw on that European market and make them prestigious just as Cadillac once was or like BMW, Audi, and Mercedes are today.
If only GM would wake up and realize the potential.
“It was just about two years ago my family moved from Germany, where I was part of the Opel engineering team, to the United States to join the Chevrolet Volt team. We haven’t regretted a moment.”
Herr Weber,
You have not even a small bit of being wistful about living now in Detroit instead of Germany?
What is GM’s position on Shai Agassi’s “Better Place” Project