Camaro Time!
By Ed Peper
GM North America Vice President, Chevrolet
This is a day that literally hundreds of thousands of people have been waiting for – especially me: the first all-new 2010 Chevy Camaro is rolling off the line at GM’s award-winning assembly plant in Oshawa, Ontario.
If you love cars, it doesn’t get much better than this. Chevy has reinvented a classic American sports car for 21st century drivers. Besides Corvette, there is probably no car in Chevy history that carries a prouder legacy than Camaro.
When we announced that Camaro was returning to the Chevy lineup a little over two years ago, it became one of the most highly anticipated vehicle launches of this decade. We’ve heard from more than 800,000 people asking for information about the 2010 Camaro, and 14,000 of them have already placed an order to buy one when they arrive at Chevy dealer showrooms next month.
I know a lot of people think it’s taken too long to bring the all-new Camaro to market, but when you get behind the wheel I guarantee you’ll agree this 21st-century sports car was worth the wait.
The 2010 Camaro is stylish and incredibly fun to drive. The design is very faithful to the original Camaro concept that inspired Hollywood director Michael Bay to make it the hero of “Transformers,” and it also acknowledges the Camaro’s heritage, but the sleek lines and aggressive stance really set the 2010 Camaro apart from its competitors.
Speaking of competitors, the 2010 Camaro has some significant advantages over more traditional rivals like the Ford Mustang and Dodge Challenger. It also competes well against some rather unexpected competitors, like the Nissan 370 Z, Hyundai Genesis Coupe, and BMW 3-Series.
Let’s look specifically at how Camaro stacks up against the venerable Mustang. For starters, the Camaro V6 generates 304 horsepower, while Mustang’s V8 tops out at 315. In terms of fuel efficiency, Camaro wins hands-down – the V6 will achieve 29 miles per gallon on the highway, according to the EPA, five mpg’s or better than Mustang. Camaro also has standard 4-wheel independent suspension that Mustang doesn’t offer. Camaro has 6-speed transmissions across the entire lineup, while you can still get a Mustang with a 5-speed.
The 2010 Camaro features all of the modern amenities that 21st century drivers expect: Bluetooth phone and USB connectivity; a Boston Acoustics audio system; OnStar; and XM satellite radio. And all of these features come wrapped in a very affordable package – the 2010 Camaro’s MSRP starts at $22,995.
Now a 21st century sports car should have 21st century marketing behind it. We know that Camaro buyers are very internet-savvy and they go online to get their information. There are more than 600 Camaro blogs already online, but there’s only one “official” Camaro site and it went live today. We also have photos of the first Camaros rolling off the Oshawa production line over at our Flickr pages.
All in, the 2010 Camaro is a budget-friendly sports car that offers great fuel economy without sacrificing performance. It’s already a movie star and it’s also the newest showroom star at Chevrolet, which is GM’s foundational brand.
The 2010 Camaro is the latest example of how we are reinventing the Chevy brand and the automobile for today’s consumers. It joins the Silverado Hybrid – the most fuel-efficient full-size pickup you can buy – and later this summer, the all-new 2010 Equinox crossover, which will achieve best-in-class 30-mile-per-gallon fuel economy.
Okay, I’ll take my foot off the gas pedal – for now.
It’s Camaro time!
78 Comments
Leave a Reply
(If you haven't left a comment here before, you may need to be approved by the site owner before your comment will appear. Until then, it won't appear on the entry. Thanks for waiting.)
I have one on order since October 29, and today production has started. Go GM.
Welcome back! I like the dedicated site…awesome computerized build of the Camaro. Good info too. Best wishes with the new model.
THE TIME HAS COME !
The orders are in, and now the car is coming back. WHAT A DAY
http://www.5thGen.org
http://www.camaro5.com
<i.”The 2010 Camaro is stylish.”
In profile, it looks like a blend of the Challenger and Mustang. I guess there was an advantage in letting them go first.
DAYS OF THUNDER ARE BACK ! STILL AND ALWAYS THE HEART BEAT OF AMERICA !
I’m extremely impressed with the Camaro V6’s gas mileage. Great job, GM! Now if only the trunk opening weren’t so darn small, but I don’t have enough headroom in it anyway. I’ll stick with my new G8 GT. If the rumors are true that the same V6 and 6spd auto is going in the G8 V6 for 2010 and you can work that kind of magic, that will be great. I would have considered that instead of the GT if it were available. The mileage in the G8 GT hurts compared to my previous BMW 3 series, but at least I can put in regular gas to cut the pain a bit.
Sounds exciting…
How about handling? Does it top an M3 or other top brands on the S turns or is it another muscle car?
Any Nav system available?
“We know that Camaro buyers are very internet-savvy and they go online to get their information.”
‘Tis a pity you won’t let all us prospective Camaro buyers order our cars online, especially since you already acknowledge we are so “Internet-savvy.” Why don’t you take advantage of that “savviness?”
“It’s already a movie star”
Ed,
Just how long ago was it that movie starring the Camaro was released? Would that be the Transformers movie from 2007 you’re talking about?
This is one of the best days of my life!!!! I’m so excited the Camaro is back, and I can’t wait to bring home my very own 2010 that I ordered!!
Duke:
The Camaro starred as “Bumblebee” in the first “Transformers” movie in the summer of 2007 and will also star in the sequel that will premier this summer. Are you a fanboy? Too bad cars can’t be nominated for an Oscar!
Chet,
I don’t think it’s legal for GM to allow people to place orders on a website when they have dealer agreements in place that make the dealer the “point” for vehicle orders. Are there an car companies that allow you to actually place an order for a vehicle online? I think not.
Nate;
It has OnStar Turn-by-turn navigation with a display system integrated through the Driver Information Center.
“Are you a fanboy?”
Ryndee,
No, I’m not a “fanboy.” (Whatever that is.)
I was commenting on the irony of touting a car as a “movie star” when you couldn’t even put it into the showroom for sale until almost two years after the movie came out.
“Are there an car companies that allow you to actually place an order for a vehicle online? “
One can order the Tesla roadster through Amazon.com. It’s also possible to order the new diesel-powered, Mahindra light pickup truck online.
Duke,
It wasn’t even a concept car until 2006 at the NAIAS, so GM having put the car into production by the beginning of 2009 is pretty impressive. You couldn’t seriously expect the car to be in production any faster than it was. Most cars take about 4 years from concept to production.
I’m definitely looking forward to test driving this car! Good going, GM!
Chet,
Do either of the companies in your example have dealers in the US? Do they have franchise laws protecting them? The laws with current dealships were setup decades before the internet was invented.
If everyone bought cars online how would dealers survive? If you say “who cares”, then what about the people who want to test drive the cars before buying them? I personally would never buy a car without test driving it. If there are no dealers where would someone go for a test drive?
“If everyone bought cars online how would dealers survive?”
There would still be a place for the dealers. One is by by providing service. Dealers would become primarily warranty service providers for which the car maker would reimburse them, and they would also still sell routine preventative and out-of-warranty maintenance. They could also be the delivery agents when we order a car online, and receive a delivery and preparation fee from the car maker. (I can order a firearm online and have it delivered through my nearest firearms dealer. Why wouldn’t that work for a car?)
Dealers would also still sell cars to those who chose to remain computer illiterate or just like that personal touch.
As for test drives: Apple Computer has an Apple Store at the mall nearest me where I can sit down and try every product they make. There is no reason GM, Ford, and Chrysler couldn’t have a similar model where we could stop by our nearest GM, Ford, or Chrysler store to look at and test drive the models. It works for Apple, why wouldn’t it work for GM?
It’s time for the car makers to move into the 21st century.
“I was commenting on the irony of touting a car as a “movie star” when you couldn’t even put it into the showroom for sale until almost two years after the movie came out.”
The car in the movie was the CONCEPT version. It takes at least 3 years to take a car from concept to production. You are implying that GM took too long but the reality is the Camaro’s development time was average for the industry. Anyone who knows anything about cars knew the Camaro shown in Transformers was not the production version and the production car wouldn’t be on sale for a few years.
Nate: Hard to say if it’ll beat an M3 at this point, but a prototype run on Nurburgring ran 8:19. Unlike muscle cars of the past, it has a multi-link independent rear suspension and electronic stability control. It’s likely a production model will be run harder for a better lap time. But I wouldn’t expect a relatively stock one to beat 8:00 by much if it can even break into the 7s. I would expect it to perform comparably to a BMW or Mercedes of comparable weight and power though.
There’s a bunch of lap times on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordschleife_fastest_lap_times
As a first year run, I wouldn’t expect super optimized handling, but I’d expect a lot of experimenting among owners to result in finer tuning.
What I want to know is how fast the Stig could drive it on the Top Gear track
The Mahindra truck is not actually here yet and has basically has no dealer support; and the Tesla Roadster is a vehicle that is sold by perhaps a dozen dealers nationwide. Every state in the US has franchise law and to go from selling vehicles in showrooms (the model for 99.9% of all vehicle sales) to selling them online requires that the dealer agreements be modified. Modification of dealer agreements requires that all of the dealers agree on the new terms of the dealer agreement.
Car makers would love to move into the 21st century; tell your legislators to allow them to do it by making it easier to modify the business model.
You can select a vehicle on line, but you still have to go to the dealer for the test drive and transaction. Why not have the dealers implement on line ordering?
“Anyone who knows anything about cars knew the Camaro shown in Transformers was not the production version and the production car wouldn’t be on sale for a few years.”\
Sheth,
I understand that, but why then is GM making a big deal about the car being a “star” of the movie? Is GM now taking their cues from Hollywood?
“Car makers would love to move into the 21st century; tell your legislators to allow them to do it by making it easier to modify the business model.”
David,
That’s one reason many people advocate bankruptcy and restructuring for GM. A legal restructuring would allow GM to move their marketing business model into the 21st century and sell cars using the Internet the same way Apple sells computers, iPods, and iPhones.
The new business structure would still provide for GM stores around the country to provide service and maintenance, but the antiquated, inefficient, and eroding network of dealerships competing against each other would disappear. (In my city we have two Pontiac dealers within three miles of each other — both with huge inventory sitting on their lots.)
Instead of pushing cars out to dealers to sit unsold on lots for months, Internet marketing would let GM move to a “build on demand” system — build cars as they are ordered, delivering them through GM stores around the country.
From the get go, GM should never have called the Volt a Chevrolet, but instead called it the GM Volt and gone right to marketing it over the Internet with selected GM dealers (Chevy, Buick, Pontiac, or Caddie) being certified to provide service and maintenance and to handle prep and delivery.
Duke,
Did you know that thanks to Transformers, over 500,000 people inquired about the Camaro? It’s only meant to sell ~ 100,000 a year. These people wanted to know what is was, when it would be sold, etc. When you’re talking about a brand new vehicle as the blog entry above is…would you leave something like that out? Don’t make the mistake of thinking that the cars production and marketing revolves around its hollywood spotlight…it most certainly doesn’t. But it was a point too good for Mr. Peper to leave out.
Now then, Mr. Peper…I want to offer my most sincere grattitude and thanks to you and absolutely anyone who had anything to do with the relaunch of the Camaro. My heart aches when I think back to its cancellation in 2002, but the thought of a new Camaro, better than EVER, roaming the streets and taking names warms my soul and brings a stupidly large smile to my face…so Thank you all very, very much.
Chet,
There’s nothing about bankruptcy that guarantees that GM is going to be able to do any of those things you suggest. It does guarantee that it will cost the government a massive amount in DIP financing though.
Considering that no other major carmaker is any more in a position than GM is to sell cars outside of the dealer channels, and the fact that bankruptcy has no effect on the various laws that govern dealer and franchise operations in each of the 50 states. There’s little likelyhood that the dealers will be cut out of the loop entirely as you suggest. At best; there would be minor changes to GM’s dealer agreement to make it similar to those of Toyota, Honda, VW etc. – all of which are still hamstrung on direct sales by state franchise legislation.
David,
To bad I’m not a fan of Onstar at ALL.
On another note to everyone else… how will the new Camaro handle? Will it be more GM go in a straight line like the original Camaro or did GM actually bring the car to the modern world?
Isn’t the Camaro based on the G8 Platform?
Oh and isn’t it ironic that such an American Legend will be produced in Canda (or is it Australia)
I built mine online yesterday! A red jewel tintcoat with black charcoal interior. I did a 1LT RS model loaded to to abot $30K. I’d love a V8, but don’t think that I could swing it. Besides that V6 is as fast or faster than all but the SS’s of the last gen car!!!
I hope that this car helps the cause. I have a bit of doubt, though. Dodge’s Challenger came out of the gates hot and you can already get discounts and rebates even on R/T ’s.
~~Oh and isn’t it ironic that such an American Legend will be produced in Canada (or is it Australia)~~
Yes, delicious irony it seems. The All-American Camaro of “Baseball, Hot Dogs, Apple Pie and Chevrolet, They Go Together in the Good ‘Ole USA…” built on an Australian platform in Oshawa, Ontario.
The British Commonwealth seem to be getting its revenge after letting the colonies break away in 1781.
How come the new camaro doesn’t have a PROPER navigation device. This car would be much better if it had a navigation device like the nisan 370z. Now don’t get me wrong i’ve been a big fan of the camaro, but that was the dumbest thing chevrolet has done to the car. Chevrolet would make a lot more money, which is what it all comes down to, if they added a navigation system. I bet more than half the people who buy the camaro would’ve also shelled out a thousand more for the navigation system. It wouldve made the car more “21st century” if it had a navigation system screen in the interior of the car. That was a real dumb move chevy.
I like the styling and the retro-marketing job GM’s doing, but is this the right message to be sending to the masses and the Federal Government?
Hot “muscle” cars may be sexy, but gas is cheap “now” – what will happen when the economy picks up again and OPEC starts jacking up the crude like last Summer when we hit $4.00 + per gallon.
GM – please balance your offering with some nice Euro Designed Economy cars that don’t remind us of all the other GM cars and have better quality standards than the Japanese.
Otherwise you’re doomed to failure.
Most of the time, I say nice if I see something I like. But this time, I have to say that the agonizing waiting we all have done in anticipation of the 2010 Camaro is worth it. I am very impressed with the numbers and love the look. I am so impressed, I am really considering getting on a waiting list. Congrats on a very good and very surprising execution.
Godspeed the CAMARO
This iconic automobile may just save the north american car industry untill 5 dollor a gallon gasoline and the Volt come allong to cement it’s future.
Proof positive that GM people do what they love BEST. This car may well serve as north American Muscle’s emmasary to the college educated sons and daughters of the middle manager class. At 29 mpg highway it seems traiding down from an Accord coupe could not only save money on gas but allso on scheduled mantanance. It’s like the 1970’s in reverse.
Ps Holden needs a Manaro
Grimstone,
Nevermind that the rear axle, transmission, steering column, and engine are made in the United States.
I guess you think the Honda Civic Si that gets the same highway fuel economy as the V6 Camaro (but requires premium fuel) is “good ole’ American ingenuity”.
I can’t wait to race my husband and his C6 ‘Vette with my new Yellow SS !! I wanted to wait for the convertible, but next year (or longer???) is a long way off!
I’d like to know if anyone plans on making a “Bumblebee” version as Monroe did with their Ironhide package for the GMT560.
Way to go to everyone that had a part in bringing this American Icon back!
@Chet Pumpelly: Why do you think you need the internet to establish a built-to-order car selling process. This is what happens in Europe every single day since even before fax machines were popular, let alone the internet. Over here you will never find more stock then the dealer means to have as showcars. Usually people do not buy the car IN the shop, bddDDDDDDDDut select from vast catalogues of option & engine choices and get their car built for them. (Of course the dealer is interested to sell his showcars and there are customers for this, but the argument is PRICE and not the skipping of waiting period).
This is actually the most significant difference between US American and European car markets (and not that we mostly drive smaller cars here). We are willing to wait to get our cars – on the other hand we can choose from a much wider, almost free range of engine and factory-built options: Think about 5-7 Engine choices in both, gas and diesel multiplied by 3 body styles (sedan, hatchback, station wagon) multiplied by 3-4 trim levels multiplied by 5-10 colors multiplied by 20, 30 options and packages. This is for a medium sized car, but it’s not much less for a small car.
You only have to visit an online car configuration program (visit http://www.opel.de and choose English language…) to come across that no dealer could hold all those variants on stock.
You cannot buy cars online. You can arrange a date at some dealership and are presented the MSRP, but that’s it.
So, no bancruptcy needed. Only _allow_ the dealers to order just what the customers will have signed for. And the customer must be willing to WAIT for his car to be built!
Greetings,
SuAlfons (GM Germany)
I’m a GM fan and I have 2 GM cars both are 2007 model. I also like the all new Camaro. I just wanna ask a question to Mr. Ed Peper. Why is it that the 3.6L (304hp) DI Camaro engine is rated at 18/29 mpg and the 2010 Equinox’s 3.0L, which is also a direct injected (255hp) is rated only 18/25 mpg despite the Camaro and the Nox has almost the same curb weight. I think this would create misconception from the buyers perspective. Like in my case, I can ask why not put a 3.6L DI for the Nox, which is more fuel efficient. I would rather consider to buy a RAV4, which is more powerful than the 3.0L Nox and can deliver 20/28mpg.
“Way to go to everyone that had a part in bringing this American Icon back!”
Yes, three cheers for those people in Australia and Ontario for bringing back an American icon.
“So, no bancruptcy needed. Only _allow_ the dealers to order just what the customers will have signed for. And the customer must be willing to WAIT for his car to be built!”
Thanks for your input SuAlfons. I agree that sounds like a better system. Unfortunately, many of my fellow countrymen have never discovered the virtue of patience, and instead prefer instant gratification.
When I lived in Germany I once ordered a Meredes and waited two months for delivery. That was certainly acceptable to me considering I got exactly the car I wanted.
“I can’t wait to race my husband and his C6 ‘Vette with my new Yellow SS !!”
Surely not on a public highway I hope Angella, and please put down your cellphone, iPod, and that cup of coffee.
Miracle at EPA — Extra 10% MPG !
Last year I recall Ed Peper saying that the V6 could give upto 26 mpg based on GM’s tests. Now EPA came back and said, no, you get a bonus of more than 10% and made it 29 mpg ! Could somebody shed light on how EPA could come up with higher mpg compared to GM’s.
I wonder if the same “miracle” could work for other GM vehicles (Equinox) and push them close to 30 !
onell,
I think you might be forgetting about the difference in the type of vehicle. The camaro is much more aerodynamic than the Equinox, which would likely more than explain the difference in fuel efficiency between the 3.0L on the Equinox and the 3.6L on the Camaro. In addition, the equinox is going to be available with a 4-cylinder that is supposed to get 30mpg.
onell,
The reason the highway fuel economy is better on the Camaro is because it probably has a better drag coefficient. The highway number doesn’t have much to do with weight, it’s more the aerodynamic drag. The city number has more to do with the weight, which is why they have similar numbers for the city. Also I bet the Camaro has taller gearing which allows the engine to spin slower while at a cruise which help FE as well.
It’s not as easy as just comparing curb weights.
Harbottle,
You’re right, absolutely no one in the US had anything to do with bringing the Camaro back. Nevermind that I see tons of M-plated Camaro’s out on the roads around the Detroit area. And nevermind most of the powertrain was developed here.
Grimstone,
Please provide us with the list of Icon vehicles from Toyota and Honda.
Jeff/Tim,
Okey I can accept the drag coefficient when you compare Camaro and Nox. But why is it that the Toyota highlander (275hp) and the Chevy Traverse (288hp), which are both bigger and heavier than the 2010 Nox can deliver an MPG which is almost the same as the less powerful and lighter 3.0L.
>>>> Please provide us with the list of Icon vehicles from Toyota and Honda.
David,
As far as I know, neither Toyota or Honda have made any claims to producing an “American icon.”
>>>> You’re right, absolutely no one in the US had anything to do with bringing the Camaro back.
Tim,
Of course people in the U.S. played a role, but you can’t see the delicious irony of the Camaro being made in Canada on an Aussie-developed platform by the company that so proudly used to advertise, “Baseball, Hot Dogs, Apple Pie and Chevrolet, They Go Together in the Good ‘Ole USA…”?
Things do change of course. Both Canada and Australia had teams in this year’s World Baseball Classic, and I bet even Aussies and Canadians like hot dogs and apple pie.
As I said before, the British Commonwealth must be enjoying their revenge for the events of 1781 when the world was turned upside down at Yorktown.
Nate:
Do you read anything about cars? Where have you been for the last 6 months or so? All of the major auto magazines drove Camaro protoptypes MONTHS ago and reported their impressions. Why not check out those impressions? Have you heard of the G8? The G8 has gotten rave reviews in terms of handling and anyone who has been awake for the last few years knows that the Camaro is based on a modified Zeta platform. Lets use common sense and presume that a Camaro that is based on the G8 but with slightly less weight is likely to handles at least as well as the large sedan. In addition, the Camaro has larger wheels and tires than the G8 which should aid handling. This car has nothing in common with old muscle cars and this is not a secret. You often claim to be a GM fan but many of your statements here have me questioning that notion. It’s quite obvious you have not read anything about the new Camaro and have falsely assumed it’s a mild evolution of the old car simply because it shares the same name.
Onell:
I don\t believe the Equinox’s numbers are final EPA figures. They may be subject to change before launch of the vehicle. That said, SUVs are not as aerodynamic as cars in general and tend to get worse highway mileage even if curb weights are similar.
Grimstone:
The Camaro is an American design and will have American components. While the platform may be sourced from Down Under this car will not be built there and was not designed there. How old is that Chevy tagline you are talking about? 40 years? The auto industry is much more global now. Do you think that every bit of design and development for your average US built car with a Japanese badge happens in the US of A? No.
Ganggaraj:
It is not uncommon for GM’s estimates for mileage to be conservative and for the final EPA numbers to exceed their predictions. I don’t think any “miracles” happened. GM estimated highway mileage would be 27mpg and the final number is 29mpg- not a huge difference by any means.
Onell:
You have to look at more than the number of cylinders to compare two vehicles with V6 engines. One reason the RAV4 is so efficient is because its so light. I am not sure why Toyota vehicles are so light but I suspect that GM’s latest vehicles are more rigid and thus heavier. One thing is for sure, rigidity is key to handling and most Toyota products are not known for handling. If the Equinox was as light as the RAV4 it likely could match the mileage of the Toyota with its V6. If I’m not mistaken the RAV4 V6 gets 19/26 which isn’t much better than the Equinox. I am not going to buy an inferior Toyota to save 1mpg. The I-4 Equinox beats the base RAV4 by 2mpg on the highway while offering more power.
Mike:
I see you have a very selective view of the auto industry. Please explain to me how GM is foolish for offering a Camaro than gets better mileage than the 2 seat 370Z and the 335i and the Mustang V6. Unless EVERY manufacturer is going to get out of the coupe game I see no reason for GM to do so. The bottom line is GM is introducing a coupe with class leading mileage and they deserve credit. If you are going to compete in a segment
Global platforms: It makes little sense to me to build one small segment car like the Camaro off the Zeta platform for North America when you have the best selling car built down under and sold as Chevys world wide. We need that car here too, but not as a Lumina but an Impala. The best looking Opels were never built here and were much better looking than their counterparts sold here. I can’t say much for the current Astra/Corsa styling, the roofline reminds me too much or the Cobalt which sucks. Those old Cavalier coupes, the last rendition until that frontend restyling, were hot, just like the Australian Zetas. Those hood scoops on the G8 look tacky, like all that cladding that Pontiac became famous for. I’m hoping that you don’t waste that talent from down under and procede with Alpha.
“As far as I know, neither Toyota or Honda have made any claims to producing an “American icon.””
And that sir is the difference.
There is no irony; when GM made the Camaro in 1967 it was not organized as a global company; today it is. It would only be natural and logical for GM to access global resources and platforms as needed to re-create an American Icon.
David
Toyots’s Iconic cars are
Landcruser, still in production, original was GM powered Blue Flame I6
The original Crown….still in production, original was GM powered 215 V8
Original Cellica
Corolla GTS 1986? affordable 2liter muscle for the working class, the car that started DRIFTING
Supra twin turbo 1995? Skyline this……..first real japanise muscle available to americans, VR3000GTs just do’nt count, in my book, yours?
Corolla, and Celica Icons? Please. The Landcruiser is not an Icon in the US. The only thing that the LC was ever noted for in the US was deteriorating into iron oxide twice as quickly as a Jeep.
OK to me the Corola is an Icon because I’m an SCCA kinda guy, and I remember back in the day weGMers were running Monzas in SCCA not the more Iconic Camaro’s because the size and weight were more in line with Ford mustng foxbodys and the Celica and so on. The Corolla GTS was never a big hit here in the states when it was new, but in Japan it was like the 32 Ford, and later the Fox mustang was here, they were cheep they were rear drive, everybody had one everbody loved them, everybody did some sort or motorsport with them, American SCCA types liked the first gen RX7’s better, I’ve allways prefered the toruqe of the 2.0 twincam at midrange.
The Original LC must have struck some sort of chord because Toyota reencarnated it as the FJ Cruser. Maybee I confused the LC and the original FG, sorry I ment FJ, the buyforeign Jeep for thousands of tough individualistic unpatriots for decades.
David said: “There is no irony; when GM made the Camaro in 1967 it was not organized as a global company.”
GM has owned Adam Opel GmbH since 1929. GM acquired Holden in 1931. Both well prior to 1967 at which time you claim GM was not yet a global company.
Sheth,
We read different magazines apparently. Until I see a new Camaro keeping pace with the top competition… it is still another Chevy. 8.20 was it at the ring isn’t a bad time. I’ve looked at quite a few of the magazines… let me know though when they are recommending a Camaro over a BMW….. Until then I’ll wait to see on in my local dealer…
I can’t say its not a tempting car though… just not sure its for me just yet…. but maybe. The Same goes for the G8.
Can you tell me the differences in Platform? or how the polar moments of the different cars will effect handling?
How are the chassis tuned?
And exactly what effect does tire size have on handling?
Actually I did read reviews of it before posting my previous post. And I am a GM fan, I just don’t always get caught up in their sales propaganda like so many seem to.
I took a look at GM’s comparison page for the Camaro and Compared it to a BMW 3 series… take a look for yourself… the only thing GM boasted was more power and a few minor things… nothing about comparable or better handling, braking etc…
Lets face reality: there are a few cars out there setting the pace right now in performance. That would be BMW, Nissan (Infiniti) and maybe a few others like Audi (questionable). Can the new Camaro shed its muscle car past and prove to be every bit as competitive as the cars I just mentioned. Will the interior be more luxury then sport (putting it into the class with the Infiniti G37 and the new Nissan 370Z)…. It COULD happen but will it….
I’m well aware of the fact that the new Camaro is built off the G8 platform AND has fully idependant suspension (automatically making it something other then an old Camaro). All I asked is if GM treated this like a muscle car or like a modern sports car. I have yet to see much proof on that yet…
Frankenbike’s assement was much more helpful then your typical remarks. At least my questions were answered….
onell,
The Camaro probably has a better MPG rating then the Equinox’s 3.0 for one of several reasons. The first and formost is probably a difference in gearing, and transmission. The second would be drag coefficient. The taller bigger frontal area Equinox would probably move more air out of the way then the sleeker Camaro. The last difference is the toruq bands of the 3.0 L Direct Injected engine. The Equinox probably has more drag, and therefore takes more power to move… the 3.0L is smaller and makes more torque so in order to get the increased power I’d be willing to bet the 3.0L needs to run at a higher RPM. This all combined PROBABLY is the cause of the difference in economy. Or maybe its a difference in the EPA test loop…
Also I though they reported the new Equinox at 28 or 29 MPG.
As to the Highlander and Traverse… see above.. the difference in power @ an RPM is the biggest thing that changes fuel mileage with all other things being equal… a smaller engine running at a higher RPM CAN have MORE internal resistance then a larger one at a lower RPM… its not an easy thing to quantify… though surely GM could… additionally there may be a difference in what class of car they are and therefore testing metrics.
David,
What is ironic is that an American Icon isn’t being built in America and probably wasn’t even engineered in America… some could even venture to say its a bit of brand erummm platform engineering… aka a G8 with a new body and interior… so what does that make it? Truely Camaro or what?
And that said doesn’t that seem ironic that the old Firebird/Trans Am shared platforms with the Camaros and only differed by sheet metal and interior… and now the G8 and Camaro once again do the same.
Harbottle Grimstone,
By global company… I think David meant shared platforms and engineering…. that said are you trying to tell us that in 1929 and 1931 that GM was sharing components with its European and German divisions? I find that very tough to believe…. Global engineering IS a new thing (I think).
I was lucky enough to experience my first drive in the new Camaro! It was a V6 with the 6 speed, manual transmission. Though the drive was short, the car pulled hard like a busting down a fence! And, this was the V6. It does provide a lot of the vintage feel by virtue fo the seating position. However, driving it is all modern! Very cool! And, it appears to have the new GM Quality that has appeared on the CTS, the Malibu, the LaCrosse, etc. A fine new addition to Chevrolet’s stable, and to my vehicle want list . . .
Sheth,
When I shop for a car I don’t care whether it has a high revving or low revving engine. My criteria in buying a car is the mpg, and the horsepower to curb weight ratio. And that’s all!
Camaro is coming.
The base Camaro 3.6 V-6 has more torque and 29 mpg hwy, 4 mpg better fuel economy than the Nissan 370Z 3.7 L V-6.
Camaro starts at $22995.
Nissan 370Z starts at $30,600.
Verdict:
Camaro wins.
The Camaro SS has 426 hp and offers blue tooth. Perfect. I’ve seen one, they’re fantastic. The Camaro SS with 426 hp has a 33 percent better power to fuel efficiency ratio than the Nissan 370Z.
Nissan 370Z requires premium fuel while the Camaro SS V-8 uses regular 87. The consumer spends less on fuel with a Camaro SS and gets more horsepower. Wow.
Camaro triumphs over the 370Z in soo many ways.
how is GM going to sell 425 HP camaros when the pres of GM wants $4.00/gallon gasoline to help sell hybrids and the volt ???
Nate:
The reviews are out. Read them and weep. The car can handle and puts up numbers similar to that of a $42k 335i coupe. This is not some 60s muscle car by a long shot. You show me a powerful BMW coupe that starts at $23k before you start asking me to prove the Camaro is better than a BMW. When you compare the prices of the Camaro and 3 series coupe one would hope the BMW has some advantages considering its price premium. The fact that a 335i coupe has a BASE PRICE that is higher than the fully loaded price of a V8 Camaro tells me the two cars are not in the same class. That said, the 335i cannot outperform the Camaro.
If you read the GM info on the Camaro you will find details about the platform, suspension and brakes. Motor Trend tested the V6 and V8 cars and they stopped in less than 110ft from 60 which is M3 territory. So yes, the car goes fast, corners well and stops like the best of European coupes. The Camaro SS has performance that is akin to an Audi S5. The evidence is there but its up to you to accept it and face reality. I understand that you inherently believe GM cannot compete but the numbers speak for themselves.
If you need help finding positive reviews I suggest you check out Inside Line, CarandDriver.com and cars.com. Those are some of the reviews I consulted. None were negative.
Such a classy car on the outside,lessened by the cheap looking plastics on the interior.
I thought i read on here that GM would be putting “class leading interiors” in all future vehicles. The Camaro’s may be class leading for a Taxi cab, but falls far short of class leading for a sports car.
OK interior for the base model,but from there on should have used more soft touch surfaces,two tones and more bright metal trim.
So want this vehicle to be a success. Hope interior upgrades will follow soon!
motorman,
GM’s V-8s from my experience get very good fuel economy. In some cases they go as well as a V-6 on fuel economy. The 5.3 with active fuel management in real life can get 30+ mpg on the highway . I’ve seen an 07 Corvette get 34 mpg using cruise control on the highway. Perhaps we can convince GM to make small LS V-8’s with active fuel management. These engines are real a joy to drive and they are wonderful from a customers point of view. It would surely help to sell cars.
CAFE is ridiculous. Its time to repeal it all together. Let the people chose they type of vehicle they want to buy.
On politicians, people are fed up with them. Just wait, you’ll see.
“That said, the 335i cannot outperform the Camaro.”
Mr. Sheth,
Who cares? Unless you live on your own island with no traffic or traffic laws, what does it matter? If you’re in a Camaro and I’m in a Yugo, but we’re both stuck in traffic, who cares which car will outperform the other?
Corky,
Then why do people buy a BMW 335i? For the economy? Doubt it.
“Then why do people buy a BMW 335i? For the economy? Doubt it.”
They buy BMW’s for status and as a social signifier. The truth is that hardly anyone who buys a BMW or Camaro will ever legally drive it to its full capability, or even have the driving skill to do so.
I ask again: When your stuck in traffic not moving or creeping along at no more than 10 mph, what’s the difference whether you’re in a BMW, a Camaro, or a Geo?
Corky,
If you really want to get into it, a BMW is going to have more features than a Geo, the stereo will be better, the seat more comfortable, a quieter interior etc. That’s part of why people buy a BMW over a Geo. Also, I am stuck in traffic probably about 30% of time while driving. Sorry I’m not going to buy two cars, one for bumper to bumper traffic and one for more fun driving. I’m going to have one car, and it’s going to be a sporty one so for the 70% of the time I can drive it will be more fun, and while I’m stuck in traffic the other 30% of the time, I’ll just deal with it.
And to have fun driving you don’t have to be doing anything illegal. Taking a turn in a Suburban isn’t going to be as fun as taking one in a Camaro. OR driving switch backs through the mountian isn’t going to be as fun in a Geo as in a Camaro, all the while obeying speed limits.
Just out of curiousity, do you have any fun in your life or do you just act like a lemming that only drives to get to point B, only has a house with a bed? Who cares if someone else wants to have fun while getting to point B, just because you don’t, shouldn’t limit other people.
Sheth,
OK so the Camaro is CLOSE to an M3 performance wise. Is it as refined as an M3 or other BMW? Also where is the nav system?
Seems to me if the Camaro can whip an M3 on the track (year for year comparison) then BMW can read it and weep….. as I think you put it. I think the Camaro is close but not there yet..
Tenn Joe,
I think GM could give it a bit better look inside.. but remember it is supposed to have a glint of retro Camaro in it… I’d love to see a CTS-V like interior treatment…
Again retro interior… means retro styling to the 60’s when things were very simple. You like I, are looking for a G5 like interior in a retro-ish car.
Edwin,
For once I kind of agree with you on the V8… the Camaro deserves a V8 sound… as much as I like the 3.6 DI engine and its 304 HP… It is a bit euro… a small 4.0 L V8 would be pretty nice sounding… then again the 3.6 DI is pretty good why spend the money to develop another engine when the 3.6 has been proven to be a great engine and has a lot of development put into it.
Corky Estrada,
You make a valid point.. but everyone has their hobby and personal interests. Many people like cars… much of it is about bragging rights… and that is why the Camaro is somewhat iffy right now. Does buying a Camaro give the owner the same bragging rights as a BMW owner?
You should have made it a high performance hybrid. The Pony car, even a 29/mpg one is still a throw back to everything that is wrong with the auto industry. I am sure it is a blast to drive and is a real chic magnet but we need to get past the imported oil problem.
Corky:
“Who cares? Unless you live on your own island with no traffic or traffic laws, what does it matter? If you’re in a Camaro and I’m in a Yugo, but we’re both stuck in traffic, who cares which car will outperform the other?”
The camaro is a performance car. Most such cars have more capabilities than the average owner can exploit on regular roads. It is absurd to dismiss the Camaro’s performance simply because we live in a country with lots of traffic. If you don’t like hp and handling that is your choice but many customers are looking for performance. BMWs are largely praised by the auto media due to their performance capabilities. Those cars are discounted because they offer more performance than one can utilize in rush hour traffic. I see you are one of many hopeless GM bashers who frequent this blog. If there is one thing I don’t like it’s a person who REFUSES to give credit where it’s due.
“OK so the Camaro is CLOSE to an M3 performance wise. Is it as refined as an M3 or other BMW? Also where is the nav system?”
PLease don’t ask me stupid questions. You and I both know the car does not have a nav system. In my opinion a person who would not buy a car strictly because of lack of navigation is making a mistake. Aftermarket systems are far cheaper and in some cases more capable than OEM systems. You are looking for excuses to dismiss the 2010 Camaro so you are focusing on the lack of navigation. As for refinement, I suggest you read the reviews. Unlike you, I actually read something about the cars we discuss before posting here. There are probably a dozen Camaro reviews on various automotive sites and many of them mention the refinement of the vehicle. The road noise is low and the ride is relatively compliant. This is what happens when you develop a coupe on a world class RWD platform. Considering the high price of the M3 one would hope that it offers somewhat more refinement than a $30k Camaro SS.
“Seems to me if the Camaro can whip an M3 on the track (year for year comparison) then BMW can read it and weep….. as I think you put it. I think the Camaro is close but not there yet..”
Camaro’s price is not close to that of a 335i, much less M3. Do you ever consider prices when comparing cars? I doesn’t seem like that’s the case. I’ll take 95% of a BMW’s performance for 75% of the price. Seems like a deal to me.
Sheth,
True that aftermarket Nav systems are sometimes cheaper and more capable. But will they fit new GM’s with their new (possibly) non standard DIN arrangements? Personally I’m not a fan of the Onstar nav system. It seems like a half attempt. Of course that is one thing I would like to see an online demo of. There is nothing like having a map in front of you.
I am not looking for excuses. The Camaro might be a great car but again it lacks features I am looking for… And as of now I’m waiting to see if it has more substance then hype. Show me a car with interior styling like a CTS or a BMW, handling that is as good or better then an M3, a quiet interior and an optional nav system and maybe its worth looking at.
Actually I have read the reviews. I’m not sure how you can make such remarks.
I do consider price when comparing cars but I look at it this way. If I am going to spend part of my yearly salary on a car it better have the features I want. In this regard the CTS is pretty much at the top of my list (only complaint is non 30 MPG).
Again the point is if GM’s biggest baddest Camaro can’t whip the same year M3 on the track then its not comparable performance wise. The point is that if the Camaro can it has some bragging rights. But my bet is the only way it will is with the massive ZR1 based engine which would make it higher HP then the M3 most likely making up for its lack of handling qualities.
Not a deal to me… sorry.
That said the Camaro is damn nice for what it IS. But I’m not sure whether I’d consider owning one or not at this point. A CTS is more likely.
“The 2010 Camaro features all of the modern amenities that 21st century drivers expect: Bluetooth phone and USB connectivity; a Boston Acoustics audio system.”
Speaking of a low class interior design and cheap plastics, I guess the Boston Acoustics stereo fits right in. That garbage brand is not 21st century goodness for anyone – and especially not Chevy. Its low price and low performance are perfect for Mopar but have no business in a Camaro.
What were you guys at Chevy thinking? C’Mon Ed Peper – you can do so much better.
“It is absurd to dismiss the Camaro’s performance simply because we live in a country with lots of traffic. If you don’t like hp and handling that is your choice but many customers are looking for performance. BMWs are largely praised by the auto media due to their performance capabilities.”
Sheth,
It’s not absurd. It’s nothing more than a question of boy’s playing with toys and comparing the size of their wee-wees.
The performance of a Camaro and BMW may be nice, but also totally irrelevant to 99.95% of the world’s population. If we were gridlocked together in traffic, you in a Camaro, me in a Geo, neither one of us able to move, I would have to laugh at you.
H, Feldstein,
I’m not familiar with Boston Acoustics, but its sad to hear there is no Map system other then onstar.
I do however expect the interior of the Camaro to be nicer then GM’s of past… but it still looks kinda 70s though I guess thats the point (to appeal to those that haven’t grown up).
Corky Estrada,
Everyone needs a bit of fun in their lives. The average consumer might as well buy a Cobalt if they have that attitude or… better yet a bicycle. If I’m stuck in traffic I’d rather be on a bike to ride through it…..
“I am not looking for excuses. The Camaro might be a great car but again it lacks features I am looking for… And as of now I’m waiting to see if it has more substance then hype. Show me a car with interior styling like a CTS or a BMW, handling that is as good or better then an M3, a quiet interior and an optional nav system and maybe its worth looking at.”
Nate:
How could the Camaro do all that you ask and be affordable? Again, I ask you to use a little common sense.You are not going to get an M3 beater for $23k. I cannot understand why this is hard to comprehend. Its a stretch to compare the Camaro to a $42k 335i coupe, much less a $56k M3. Before you offer me any more lecturing about how the Camaro is a performance disappointment why you don’t you provide a list of $30k coupes that can match or exceed the performance of a nearly $60k BMW. The Camaro SS is very close to the M3’s performance for tens of thousands of dollars less. The SS lapped the Ring in 8:19 which is very close to the time of the last gen M3 and the 335i. What more do you want for $30?
“Actually I have read the reviews. I’m not sure how you can make such remarks.”
Easy. I am reading your comments here in which you suggest the car is all hype with nothing to back it up. The reviews have been overwhelmingly positive and most have noted the car is very refined. What reviews have you read? I have learned that you dismiss any information that is too favorable towards GM so I suspect you ignored the sentiments expressed about the Camaro by the press.
“The performance of a Camaro and BMW may be nice, but also totally irrelevant to 99.95% of the world’s population. If we were gridlocked together in traffic, you in a Camaro, me in a Geo, neither one of us able to move, I would have to laugh at you.”
There are dozens of cars on the market that have more power and handling capability than their owners need. Don’t be mad at GM for trying to compete with other performance coupes. Your complaints are silly. If you want to drive a Cube or Fit that is your choice. Don’t be mad because some consumers like speed, handling and style. No one is forcing you to buy the Camaro. There are plenty of low performance cars on the market for those who only care about bumper to bumper commutes.
H. Fieldstein:
Have you heard the system? If not, how can you make such statements about it being garbage?
I saw the print ad in C&D for the Camaro and I like it a lot. It really shows the car is not some old school pony car. Its a globally developed world class coupe with a familiar name.
“There are dozens of cars on the market that have more power and handling capability than their owners need.”
There’s a phrase for that, it’s called: “Over the top excess.”
Chet,
Do you live in a house that is more than about 300 square feet? If you do, isn’t that over the top excess in your eyes? I mean, I’ve seen people live in places that are that small. So anything bigger is a waste of space and resources right?
Sorry not everyone drives like there is an egg under their foot while driving, and sometimes *gasp* people take turns faster than 2.5MPH.
I also agree with Nate and sheth, everyone needs a little fun in their lives. Just because you seem to be stuck in traffic all the time doesn’t mean I am.
Heard someone mention the new Camaro looks like an armored car with narrow gun turret slits for windows. Now that I’ve heard someone else say that, I have to say that’s correct. Those narrow (from top to bottom) windows do look like the slits in a gun turret.
Isn’t driving visibility for the driver going to be a problem with those windows ~ especially to the side and back?
Wonder how many of these 14,000 orders are genuine, i.e. final purchasers instead of speculators trying to flip the Camaro buzz for a few hundred or thousands of dollars?
Also like nearly every GM new car of the last 30 years, is this Camaro a real car or a collection of parts flying in close formation still under development being tested on the buyers’ and not GM’s dime?
There are great ways to understand how much we appreciate the efforts of Camaro to be the best car there is in its category. But nothing says more about this car’s greatness but the sheer elegance of the style and look it has been having over the years.