Pontiac: Alive and Kicking and Part of GM’s Future Plans
By Susan Docherty
GM North American Vice President, Buick, Pontiac, GMC
We’ve been receiving a lot of communication recently from of our Pontiac dealers and owners regarding all of the negativity in the media surrounding our brand. It seems as though everyone is getting into the spirit, reporting speculation as fact, and writing Pontiac’s epitaph.
The only problem is that it’s wrong. Pontiac is alive and kicking, and we are still part of GM’s future plans.
Now, we are not denying that automotive industry is hurting right now and we are all going to have to make some sacrifices to get through the worst global economic downturn in over 50 years. GM’s recent submission of a more detailed long-term viability plan to the U.S. Congress clearly spells out a number of actions we are taking to deal with that new reality, including shedding nearly 20 percent of our workforce and exploring other options for the Hummer, Saab, and Saturn brands.
But that plan also clearly focuses on the single item that will make us a success in the future – great products. Pontiac definitely has a role to play there, although it’s going to mean some changes. And change, as we all know, can be difficult, especially when you’re dealing with an 83-year old American icon.
I’ll tell you up front that we don’t have every detail finalized, but let’s address the facts and sort out what we do know from what we’re still working on.
First, very little is changing in the near term. Pontiac will continue to offer the G5, G6, G8, Solstice and Vibe, and we’re adding the economical G3. Pontiac’s top reason for purchase is “fuel economy” and we won’t disappoint with four of our six entries getting over 32 miles per gallon on the highway.
The Pontiac Torrent will be discontinued to enable the brand to “focus” on cars. But the good news is that a new, five-passenger crossover SUV entry will soon be found at GMC … stay tuned.
In the future, Pontiac will have fewer nameplates. Just how many and what they will look like is still under study.
Again, we know that we don’t have all of the answers right now and that can be very uncomfortable, but we refuse to let media speculation and negativity make up our minds for us.
Pontiac still has a mission in the BPG channel and it’s one that a very dedicated team of engineers, marketers, and dealers is determined to complete successfully, one step at a time.
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“In the future, Pontiac will have fewer nameplates. Just how many and what they will look like is still under study.”
Well, in any case, an overlap with other GM-brands should be avoided. To my understanding this means, on the long-run we may see the G8, Solstice (since the Sky will go, as Saturn goes) and the Vibe.
I don’t know much about Pontiac’s history except they did a rather popular firebird and Gran Priz in the 1970.s They have not made decent cars since the oil embargo changed the game. Some of the new cars look better than ever like the Holden G8. The problem is that in most people with discerning taste see the Pontiac brand as kind of ‘redneck’ It became that way since they were just rebranded Chevy’s with an abundance of wide plastic door trim and cheap spoilers. Pontiac is more flawed than Buick which is moving beyond it’s old people’s car image. GM has said that it will be a niche brand so that means one or two cars to me. Maybe they can do a two seater and a small muscle car. If buick is coming back they can be luxury and sportiness ie: Lexus
The brand I really think is unnecessary GMC. Guy! Chevy should offer these and not be rebranded as GMC. Just thing how much nicer a Buick dealership could be if there were not those massive trucks and suv’s hiding the sleek Buicks in the lot.
GM is supposed to be getting lean and smart with laser focused brands now that it is taking our tax money. I resent paying for ambiguous brands like Pontiac and GMC.
Susan Docherty,
I would like to provide some feedback on some Pontiac Experiences I’ve had.
I drive both Pontiacs and Buicks on a daily basis (both are my current daily drivers). I have recently had the opportunity to drive a few new Pontiacs (G5, G6) as well as a Grand Prix (2007). I have to say I was very impressed with the driving dynamics of the G6 and its quiet interior. I was NOT impressed however by the 4 speed, the shift algorithms, interior, or fuel economy. Of specific concern to me was the dash quality. It just didn’t feel that great it looked like GM spent a lot of time on the rest of the car and got to the dash and just quickly put one together. Things were hollow and plastic sounding, Additionally the radio options (interfaces) weren’t that impressive (no Nav) though sound quality wasn’t bad.
If I were to consider a G6 they’d need an interior more on par with the G8. So even though I don’t see the need for Pontiac’s brand… I wish to provide the feedback that they are going in the right direction and that with a bit more work they will really have something that I might be interested in.
One other note. It is a shame the G8 and G6 Aren’t available in all wheel drive. I have often thought it would be nice to be able to buy a sporty American car with AWD.
Keep up the good work on Pontiac it will be interesting to see what comes out next.
I should have also added above that the G5 and Grand Prix also created a similar interior reaction (”did they forget to finish this”). I hope this feedback helps Pontiac to make a more competitive car in the future.
Ms Docherty,
Glad to hear the Vibe is alive. My next car will be a Vibe or a Matrix. I’m still trying to figure out which is the better value and exactly what their relationship is. Perhaps you can help:
1. Are they built on the same assembly line by the same workers? Or do GM workers build the Vibe while a different group of Toyota workers build the matrix?
2. Are the parts of identical quality?
I do know the Matrix seems to hold its resale value better than the Vibe. Why is that?
Here’s the message I sent to President Obama:
Dear President Obama,
With all due respect, you should stop delaying to help GM. If $180b can be given to AIG and $45b can be given to Citi, why not $30b
for GM? Half of GM buyers have credit score below 700, so you need to provide them with the loans to buy cars. You should allocate some of the money from the $350b TARP fund. And you should convert the loans into a majority stake in GM, since this will mean the Government won’t allow GM to go bankrupt. Car buyers are scared of the prospect of a GM’s bankruptcy, where their warranties will become worthless. You should also convert the whole government fleet into Chevy Volts that get 100 mpg or Chevy Cruzes that get 40 miles highway. The GM E-Flex system E-REV(Electric-Range Extended Vehicle) is a valuable technology that can reduce American dependence on foreign oil significantly, which also improves National Security. GM’s sales slip by 49% every month because of the uncertainties. I urge you to be bold and brave in tackling this unprecedented crisis GM is facing. If you recall the loans, the only way GM can repay the loans is Chapter 7 Liquidation, which means selling the Chevrolet, Cadillac brands, the facilities, the technology portofolio to foreign automakers, or even hedge funds like Cerberus that will flip it around for a profit. Hope you will make the right decision. Thanks for listening.
yours truly,
Ted Simpson.
On another note, the Chevy Cruze and Spark are really ugly!!!! Why can’t you position the crossbar right in the middle of the grille? What’s wrong if it looks like the Malibu? It’s part of the same family. And please put an independent rear suspension in the Cruze, or else I will get the 2010 Euro Ford Focus. (http://www.worldcarfans.com/9090302.018/largemini8/ford-iosis-max-concept-revealed-in-detail-with-video)
I have read on enthusiast sites (as well as Consumer Reports) that the G8 will be offered with the 3.6 direct injection engine for MY’10 (ala Cadillac CTS). I too will add that this vehicle with AWD and a 6-speed manual transmission would be a formidable competitor. Other missing options are a folding rear seat and a decent sound system – both of which could be taken from the Cadillac CTS parts bin.
Pontiac is getting very close with the current offering, but these missing pieces would turn me from a looker to a buyer. I’m not interested in the GXP with the V8 and 6 speed manual – please make those options available with the V6 DI engine. Pontiac has always been about performance, but given the times and uncertain future gas prices, it would be great to have a GXP trim with the V6. AWD would be the icing on the cake.
While I’m at it, the G8 interior is in desperate need of a makeover. The dash is a very dated Holden design, and it too could stand some CTS-like freshening.
I drove a Pontiac Firebird for 10 years from 1979 to 1989. Please build some practical excitement for me and I’ll trade in my European car and come back to Pontiac. Even in spite of the “Pontiac is car ” ads.
Nate,
What? The G6 handles and drives great, the dash is very nice. Its seems the foreign car pundits have taken to making interior comments. Well Guess what? GM has them all beat. GM interiors are the best. Have you ever really taken a look at the foreign car interiors and dash, they are lousy. Some foreign makes even use cheap pig skin leathers, eeh.
We’ve told GM to focus on seat comfort for the G6. It seems to be fine lately, but it needs to be the best seat comfort to differentiate from the foreign competitiors, some of which are not comfortable or supportive at all.
Shift algorithms – The GM 4 speed automatics are fantastic. GM has the best in class fuel economy.
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The feel of the Aura seems a bit sensitive compared with the rack and pinion feel of the Camaro/Firebird. No need to over do it.
Great to hear Pontiac is on track. When will we see the Pontiac Bandit Firebird? Hopefully sooner rather than later. Can Pontiac use the name Lemans, I’ve heard various people mention the name Lemans. For some reason people like the name.
The Saturn Astra has a strong look, much stronger than the Vibe. Why can’t the Astra be a Pontiac and take the Vibe’s spot?
The Solstice is super. The G6 coupe is becoming more prevalent, why not let the the G6 coupe take the place of the G5, and simply let the Cobalt be dominant in its class?
The G8 and G8 GT is really a nice car. I had to think it over at first, but when I saw others driving it, I was enthused. It looks hot coming at you down the road. The silver and the Pacific slate are just beautiful. Color will help to sell the car. I would suggest that the next G8 update use the grille look from the 1976-77 Grand Prix, that grabs up over the hood. Let the headlight morph a bit more like the Lamborghini.
Buying American is important. Australians do buy American, they have a trade surplus with the U.S, so let’s return the favor and buy a Pontiac G8 GT.
Thank you very much for this post, not that the “main stream media” will change their tune anytime soon. I was worried about the negative bias surrounding Pontiac and actually bothered to look at the more detailed long-term viability plan to the U.S. Congress and fond that “Pontiac will be re focused as a ‘nitch’ brand.”
Seeing this leads me to think that Pontiac will be more of a Sicon type brand (of which the G5, G6, and the Vibe) fit nicely). I took a look at the G8 and would buy it if my finances allowed, the G3, however; does not seem to fit anywhere in Pontiac’s brand portfolio, or in the BPG business plan. To be honest, I do not think the Aveo (the G3’s badge brother) fits well into Chevy’s line up, as evidenced by the development of the Spark (which would fit into Pontiac’s brand portfolio and the BPG business plan… Go figure.
Fuel economy? Fuel economy should be a given for all of General Motors, not just Pontiac. Your 6.0 V8 drivetrains should get better mileage and power than your competitors’. I thought Pontiac built excitement. I haven’t heard that tagline in quite a few years, so I guess Pontiac’s meaning for existence no longer exists in my mind.
At least the Solstice made me consider another Pontiac but there is no gen 2 of it in the pipelines. The rest of the Pontiac lineup don’t stand out anymore than other cars available today on the market. Price competitive, maybe, but not exciting. I was hoping Pontiac would be the performance division of GM that explored possibilites in powertrain and handling and then trickled that technology to the other divisions.
…and the good news is there’s another 5 passenger SUV coming. I can’t wait.
I regret the sarcasm, but being a past owner of many Pontiacs, I am fully disappointed. Where’s the vision?
Pontiac will be best served as a focused niche brand. All of their cars should have what Mazda calls zoom – zoom. I see that Pontiac will be going ahead with plans to produce the G3 it should at least handle better than it’s Chevrolet cousin. Since Saturn’s days are numbered it would be nice if Pontiac could pick up the next generation of the Astra and have a nice hot hatch like the Mazda 3. The G6 needs to have class leading handling and chassis dynamics.
Thats excellent that your finally letting the public in on your intentions for the company as a whole, after you decide what your doing with saturn,hummer, and saab, your entire company should focus on a massive consolidation/globalization of product portfolio. GM has been somewhat successful at importing cars from their international divisons and selling them under the saturn and pontiac brand name.
Saturn basically will be bought for their dealer-network there is really no value or meaning to the saturn name or hideous logo that would turn many would-be buyers completely and totally off.
a major reason why GM is suffering while other automakers excel is because it can not/does not match the lease offers made by Nissan and other international automakers that provide $199.00 a month leases on their popular Nissan Rogue and Nissan Altima, so anyone looking for reliably affordability with minimal commitment completely bypasses any GM brands in favor of Nissan, Honda, Toyota, the list goes on.
There should absolutely be a trimming of product portfolio in the U.S. brands, slow or low selling vehicles that are costing the company money must be axed immediately, and the sooner the brand sales of Saturn,Saab, and Hummer come the better. those are three brands that are not only weighing the company down but are costing the company more than they are actually worth.
As I have said before and hopefully someone within GM is listening, GMC and Chevrolet must be combined since they sell the exact same product though similar dealership networks to the same exact type of customer! Chevrolet should be the surviving brand with GM able to reduce duplicative management, advertising, and other overlapping staff.
Opel and Vauxhall should become Opel there is no need for the same brand yet again to be selling duplicative products in similar markets. no need for thirty brand strategy any longer, the longer these brands remain the longer the company will be unprofitable.
As I have said before Pontiac should and could stay but with a name change, lets combine Daewoo, Pontiac, and Holden that all sell similar products and fold them into the holden brand and logo dramatically reducing duplicative management, overhead, advertising, and other costs that are severely bringing the company down.
Buick currently is fine with some success in china until recently due to the entire corporations financial woes. I would say Buick could potentially remain in its current form, its entire line up had been whittled down to three core products that have recieved substaintial investment over the past few years, I think when the company is in better financial shape it can consider making Buick an international brand, if things still do not work out and Buick becomes a drag their can either sell the brand or shutter the entire brand.
Hopefully cash from the asset/brand sales of Saturn, Hummer, and Saab will be able to fuel other parts of the consolidation/realignment of the GM business model.
i do think it is important for GM to invite the public to sound off on their plans and allow not only comment but the incorporation of average customers viewpoints and ideas into their way forward planning.
More must be done from the company other than selling three brands, hopefully management knows far more brand consolidation is needed to make GM viable again.
I would further suggest a strategic alliance with a quality car manufacturer of another country other than the U.S.A. to potentially allow GM to import at a low cost vehicles that sell well overseas. allowing both partners to make money, while substaintially reinvigorating the product portfolio at GM.
Here are some Ideas:
Daewoo/Holden/Pontiac- merge into Holden.
GMC/Chevrolet- Merge into Chevrolet
Buick- Remains with enhanced line up.
Vauxhall/Opel- Merge into Opel brand.
Hummer/Saab/Saturn- sold off
Buick ( add 3 vehicles to brand) 6 Total vehicles
Modified CTS
Modified STS
Modified XLR
Cadillac
Discontinue both Escalade and Escalade ESV
Chevrolet
Discontinue both Suburban and Trailblazer
Sell rebadged Holden Ute as Chevrolet El Camino
Holden U.S.A. ( Formerly Pontiac) (8 vehicle line up)
Add International Holden vehicles to U.S. Line up
- Ute, Colorado, Barina, Sport Wagon
Discontinue:
Pontiac Torrent, and G6 Sedan
Bring to U.S. Market:
- Opel Insignia, Agila, Corsa, Tigra, Astra Twin-Top, Zafira, Vectra, VXR
Management of GM, please listen to the ideas and insight of members of the U.S. blogging community, there have been many great plans and ideas put forward through these blogs, now put that insight and planning to good use. Hopefully your company will be around for a few more years.
I leased a Buick Lucerne for three years and I have complained about the dashboard with no results. Right now I would purchase a Pontiac Torrent but I have 6 months of paid up lease to go. My question is will the Pontiac Torrent be around in December 2009 . I heard they may be discontinued . I loved the Montana but it is gone now. I will hope some Pontiac Torrent’s will be around when I get ready to buy in December
Gereon,
It would be a shame to see the Sky go. I think it could easily be rebadged as a Cadillac and have an upscale interior put in it. I much prefer the Sky to the Solstice styling wise.
If the “…top reason for purchase is ‘fuel economy’…”, when will Pontiac be getting a vehicle based on the Voltec technology, a la Cadillac and the Converj? I’ve always liked the Pontiac brand and have owned three of them, along with three other GM vehicles. I’ll likely purchase a Volt as soon as it’s available because I don’t want to wait, but superficial as it is, I’d prefer to buy a Pontiac over a Chevy.
As a “Pontiac Loyalist” I’m glad to hear that the nameplate is not going to disappear.
I hope that they will follow through with being an American-styled, performance themed brand, with mostly rear wheel drive and all wheel drive vehicles.
Pontiac has a terrific history to build on, and I really don’t see the G3 contributing to it in any way. I’m not sure what kind of survey suggested that somebody would pick a Pontiac for “fuel economy”, as that’s definitely not a top reason that I would use.
I think keeping the G8 and Solstice would be great, and adding a small-size BMW type challenger would be good too. What else do the Holden folks have in their product pipeline?
I’m dying to buy a new G8 GT (would love to get a M6 without buying the GXP though…) and am very impressed with the car. It would make an excellent, family friendly addition to the Trans-Am which I am never going to sell.
Fewer models is good. Less overlap is also good. Getting rid of the alphanumerics like you did in the 80’s would also be good. Even if it came down to a new Grand Prix (not G8) and a brand new Fiero eventually replacing the Solstice. I think it would be enough, though the thought of a new Grand Am with the turbocharged V6 and six speed manual from the 9-3 Aero does have it’s appeal.
You guys must have never heard of GTO’s , Trans-Am, Bonneville or some of the other great cars Pontiac has made. I will admit that I am a Pontiac fan. Since 1980 most of my 20+ vehicles have been Pontiacs. Maybe since my dad bought a 1966 GTO brand new I have liked the brand. Pontiac has always been the sporty model of GM. I know it is cool to bash American cars right now but some of us are still loyal to our “brand”. Pontiac has made some great cars but like everything, everyone has different tastes. I will probably continue to drive Pontiacs as long as I drive because I like them. I hope Pontiac continues as they have some great products right now and more coming in the future.
Jerry,
Sure have heard of them… I’m not impressed at all by them. But thats just me. There’s nothing wrong with being loyal to the brand. I love my ‘87 Pontiac but even I can see it is what it is. An old, outdated car worth only its value to me. I am more concerned with what Pontiac (and GM) have to do to compete in the modern market. Which doesn’t ’seem to have a place right now for the Pontiacs of the 80s or cars like them.
Chris R,
I disagree fully with you. I like the new G# alphanumerics. It removes the thought of those horrible, crappy cars they made in years past like the Grand Prix, Grand Am etc.. (sorry my memory is only of the mid to late 80’s Pontiacs… anything else belongs at a car show with people living in the past).
Have you looked at a 9-3 Aero? I’d never buy one not for that price.
I agree that Pontiac needs a Volt based car if they are going to worry about fuel economy. I think a fuel economy goal of 32 to 34 MPG is much more reasonable and obtainable with almost everything in the current line. But basing a G3 on the Korean platform? What sense does that make? But its probably already done might as well make it…. Personally the G6 and G8 have some appeal to me but represent cars that aren’t “finished”. Just my opinion.
Susan,
Thank you for the reassurance of Pontiac’s future. I would like to start by saying that I have been a lifelong Pontiac fan – still having the same 1972 Grand Prix I grew up in, driving a 2001 GP as my daily commuter, and having a host of other pontiacs in between. Even though I love Pontiacs, I support the decision to make them a niche brand. For me, Pontiacs have always been about performance. The LAST reason I wanted a Pontiac was about fuel economy. I must differ from the majority of the people in your sample.
Pontiac has had a history of performance (not fuel economy). From the marketing of the Wide-Track image in the late fifties that breathed new life into the brand then, continuing through the sixties with the GTO, Grand Prix, and Firebird into the 70’s, the Fiero in the 80’s, the T/A in the 90’s, and now the G8 and Solstice. GM’s marketing campaigns have always emphasized this from the 50’s into the present. I feel dissapointed that you didn’t mention that commitment to performance anywhere in your blog.
The G3 should NOT be a part of the line-up, IMHO. GM has tried to walk a fine line between common platforms and brand imaging, but the two have become counter-productive as the differences have been reduced to cosmetics. Looking at the Pontiac stable on the website, the G5 is shown to get 37MPG, while the G3 is listed as 34MPG? (maybe, it’s a misprint). The G3 does not fit with Pontiac’s image. I understand that plans for the G3 may have been in the works well before the August/September market crumble, but there has to be a point where you stop throwing good money after bad. If you’re in a hole, stop digging.
As I said before, I support the decision to make Pontiac as a niche brand. The cars that are distinctly Pontiac in form and function (G8 and Solstice) should continue because they reach out of a market that is not addressed by any other GM offering. Once the economy returns to profitable times, then another model can be release – so long as it is distinct and isn’t marketed to a flooded segment. At that time, I would like to see a “re-invention” of the car that the Firebird was. Not in a retro-way, but a car inbetween the Solstice and G8. Something that will be serious competition for the Subaru WRX-STI. This is niche marketing. It retains the Pontiac brand image. It doesn’t dilute it.
Thanks for your time.
Nate,
The Grand Prix won J D Power Inital Quality Award in 2007 & 2008 in the midsize segment, beating the Toyota Avalon. The Grand Am was GM’s 2nd or 3rd best selling car before the alphabet soup name. Hardly crappy cars. Canceling these two volume cars has alot to do with Pontiac’s current decline in market share. Nice move, Mr. Lutz.
I think that the “niche brand” is the right strategy. Three models would be sufficient. The current G8, the Solstice, and a “hot hatch”. If Saturn goes away, the Astra (and its sucessor) should be brought over to Pontiac and offered with an optional turbo LNF engine. Once the current gen G8 has run its course, it could possibly be replaced by a GTO or Firebird coupe (which would keep the lineup at three models), or a replacement RWD/AWD sports sedan. I think that people interested in sports cars might prefer a smaller car than the fullsize G8….something similar in size to the current G6, but not FWD (or similar in size/layout to the BMW 3 series).
Please, though, drop the G# model names. You have plenty of model names to choose from. Grand Prix, Firebird, GTO, Tempest, etc. (not “Astre” though!). Even Solstice is a cool name. The G# names are too generic, and now that the G3 has seen the light of day, the G8’s name will forever be ruined by association.
Lastly, make these cars available with minimal luxury options and maximum performance options. Manual transmissions should be available on all models at all trim/engine levels. All should have optional high performance engines (turbo 4s and N/A V8s). Suspension upgrades (performance shocks/struts, sway-bars, etc) and engine upgrades (intakes, exhausts, ECM, etc) would be nice. Many of these could be dealer-installer upgrades (such as with the current Solstice). You could even source them from well-known aftermarket suppliers and sell them through the dealerships’ service departments (so that warranties are maintained).
Pontiac should cater to the sport-enthusiast. These wouldn’t be super cars, but rather high-performance cars that the average person can attain, and yet still drive around town on a daily basis. The ability to add performance modifications will also attract the enthusiasts would wish to tinker.
Niche Brands
If you want to place a couple of niche brands with a strong heritage, how about letting select GM dealers sell an Oldsmobile Cutlass or Aurora?
Where I live, there are still people bemoaning the loss of Oldsmobile. A limited edition Olds Cutlass based on the same platform as the Pontiac G-8 would certainly find a market.
“I agree that Pontiac needs a Volt based car if they are going to worry about fuel economy.”
Absolutely not.
Part of GM’s problem the last 30 years is too much diversification with too many brands fighting for scarce R&D money, and competing against themselves. The fact is, GM should not even call the Volt a Chevy. Instead, it should be the GM Volt, a GM-branded car available through the Internet and at all GM dealers.
“In the future, Pontiac will have fewer nameplates. Just how many and what they will look like is still under study.”
Since Pontiac is becoming a niche brand, let me make a suggestion: go RWD/AWD with the entire lineup.
Why? It’s really pretty simple – nobody else in Pontiac’s pricepoint has that kind of a lineup. The closest is Dodge, especially if they made a Dodge version of the Chrysler 200C mid-size. However, Dodge is really on-par with Chevy, and the BPG channel is meant to be a cut above. It also would allow GM to co-develop RWD/AWD platforms for Holden, Pontiac, and Cadillac in order to spread the cost. All RWD/AWD platforms for the US market could be manufactured in Ontario at the same complex where the Camaro is currently manufactured. Pontiac should target to sell around 60,000 units annually with 4 or 5 models maximum.
Here’s my lineup:
1. Solstice – RWD only – 5,000 units annually
Variants: Convertible, Conv. GXP, Coupe, Coupe GXP
Powertrains: strictly direct injection 4-cylinder, either naturally aspirated or turbocharged
2. Pontiac G4 – RWD/AWD – C-segment vehicle – 20,000 units annually
Variants: 4-door sedan & 2-door Coupe (no convertible), GXP variants of each
Powertrains: Direct injection 4-cylinder, either naturally aspirated or turbocharged, direct injection V6s, naturally aspirated versions only (3.0L for top line, 3.6L for GXP)
3. Pontiac G6 – RWD/AWD – D-segment vehicle – 25,000 units annually
Variants: 4-door sedan & 2-door Coupe & Convertible, GXP variants of each
Powertrains: Direct injection 4-cylinder turbocharged, direct injection V6s, either naturally aspirated or turbocharged (3.0L, 3.6L – normal versions, 3.6L turbo – GXP)
4. Pontiac G8 – RWD/AWD – Large Sedan – 10,000 units annually
Variants: 4-door sedan w/ GXP variant
Powertrains: direct injection V6s, direct injection V8s (3.0L V6, 3.6L V6, 6.3L V8 – normal versions, 7.0L V8 – GXP)
All of these products need to have interiors on-par with what is found in the 2010 Buick LaCrosse in terms of attention to detail and quality of materials. They will definitely be more enthusiast oriented with sport-tuned suspensions and manual transmission options throughout the entire lineup. Nothing less than a 6 speed transmission (either manual or automatic) should be offered, and dual-clutch transmissions should really be offered in this lineup. The price point for Pontiac should start at 22k and top out for a loaded G8 GXP around 50k. This will allow Cadillac to float up in pricepoint to better match up with BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, and Audi, but still give lower-end Cadillac shoppers something RWD to look at with a near-luxury interior. Bob Lutz was right in that Pontiac’s history of performance is still remembered and Pontiac is the only division that could really be looked at as a “near-luxury” performance brand. A niche vehicle strategy fits perfectly into this role and eliminates overlap with any other GM North America brand. Pontiac would truly be distinct and relevant again.
Susan –
Thanks for the update. As someone who has driven Pontiac his entire life, I feel I have every right to make several comments.
1) The G3 is the most godawful Pontiac since the T1000. If BPG dealers wanted a small car, why o why could you not have shifted the Saturn Astra to Pontiac?? That car fits so much more with Pontiac’s identity than a truly badge-engineered Aveo
2) The G6, if it comes back, has to be a niche vehicle only, not a bargin-basement epsilon platform. It cheapers resales values.
3) I would like to see the STE moniker return to certain vehicles, like a G8 that is slightly lighter and toned down in style.
The overall idea of a smaller Pontiac is a good one. Please just keep execution in line with where Bob Lutz would want it to be!
Eric
SD: Pontiac’s top reason for purchase is “fuel economy”
Fuel Economy?!
Are you kidding? That is no plan for success. Nobody pays extra for fuel economy. Even the 50mpg Prius sells on technology and reputation more than fueleconomy. Fuel economy is most important to the same buyers that want the lowest price. 30mpg doesn’t even impress anyone anymore. Focusing on the most price-sensitive buyers does not sound like a winning gameplan.
Here you have a great opportunity to reinvent the brand and give it a reason to exist, but you say “very little is changing in the near term” and “one step at a time”. That sounds like cowardly lack of leadership on your part. Don’t be surprised when Pontiac continues to wander in rental fleet hell like it has for the last 20 years.
Haven’t…. we heard this all before?
And then you give them a ‘G3′?
And then you announce a Sport Truck?
And then you cancel the Sport Truck?
And now there’s a knock-off Chevy Aveo that is not competitive and doesn’t have anything to do with excitement, or people who love cars?
Morons.
Here I am going against the grain again.
Pontiac as a niche brand will fail due to limited appeal and limited sales. The numbers just don’t add up to make a viable business plan with just one or two models such as the Solstice and G8. The costs of engineering and production would quickly suffocate the beast.
Might I suggest a plan that GM should be looking at for midsize cars:
SATURN Aura 2.0L DI 4cyl
CHEVROLET Malibu 3.0L DI V6
PONTIAC Grand Prix 2.0L DI turbocharged 4cyl
BUICK Regal 3.0L DI supercharged V6 (optional AWD)
Each brand is narrowly focused and no brands are lost. Saturn is entry level. Chevrolet is upgraded main stream. Pontiac is turbocharged and sporty. Buick is near luxury. No two brands handle quite the same.
This brand management exercise shows how simple it is for GM to overcome badge engineering and offer 4 completely different cars on the same platform, thus achieving better economies of scale.
Now apply this plan to the Cruze and the Impala/Bonneville/Park Avenue and so on down the line and you have not only scaled down production costs, but also still offer a diversified portfolio.
Reducing dealerships to a single GM store network would be necessary for all of the benefits of this plan to work effectively.
Stan and others thinking the only good Pontiacs were before 1973-1974: Humbug!
Pontiac has built some excellent vehicles over the last 35 years including Firebird, Fiero, 6000STE, fwd Bonnevilles (gen 7 and 9, coke-bottle Bonnies can leave the building). Short experiments never fully realized or two soon for their time such as the 6000 AWD and diesel versions should re-emerge in the guise of the G6. And please don’t try and tell me high output engines and RDW/AWD cannot work – look no further than new Subaru WRX with 265 such horses that in factory trim is currently faster than almost anything from any other mainline brand. It is faster than any factory Mustang, including Bullitt and GT, and any Pontiac except G8 GXP, yet costs thousands less while returning excellent fuel economy. So, before you let Saab get too far away how about a real Vibe GXP, with 2.8 turbo AWD 6 speed both auto and manual. It’s Rally time.
I’m glad that Pontiac is sticking around and despite what people say I find them to be the most attractive cars on the road today!
I own a 2006 G6 GT Coupe and absolutely love it!! The car is the best looking coupe on the market today and I am glad they are adding a 4cyl, because it should sell better…
I do agree that the interior needs some work. I hate it when GM gives Chevy’s bland looking cars great interior. Imagine the interior of the new Malibu, but in black with red lights! That is what Pontiac cars should look like, dual cockpit and sporty! I find that the material is on par with most foreign cars and I really like that they have a cleaner look than the barrage of button clusters other automakers have been using lately…
I think the G5 should be replaced with a Cruze based coupe. That interior is much nicer. And I believe the Vibe and G3 should cease to exist. The Toyota engine is anemic and weak and has no place in Pontiac. The G3 is too low-market for the brand. Entry level econo-cars should be Chevy’s focus. Let’s keep Pontiac a step above Chevy… PLEASE!
Susan as an enthusiast I am glad to hear the Pontiac is going to be around. I have been a member of the Pontiac Oakland Club International for a long time. I also was one of the founders of the West Michigan Trans Am Club. I also in the past was one of the founders of the West Michigan Camaro Club. Having said that I prefer Pontiac. I am currently in the local Fiero Club. Susan as a professional I prefer Pontiacs. Over the last 32 yeasrs I have sold mainly Pontiac/GMC and Chevrolet. Regardless what others have said on this blog. There is a difference between Pontiac and Chevy. Pontiac always had better suspensions, better interiors and options. If you look in the past you will see a lot of innovations were introduced on Pontiacs first. I being a fan of the Trans Am, will point out that the Trans Am had a far better suspension and handling options. Look at the 1979, it was better on a road coarse than the same year corvette. Also Pontac produced the only mid engine two seat fibergalss car built in America. I know I drive one everyday! .
Dear Susan
I think Pontiac should go the route suggested some time ago. Go with all rear wheel drive with three core modles. The G6 (but change the name to Grand Prix) with a sedan, coupe and convertable. Give it a restyle so it wont look so much like a cobalt. Upgrade the interior and give it handling and performance to rival BMW at a much lower cost. Make it lighter stronger faster with excptional gas milage. Keep the soltist pretty much as is but make it lighter for better gas milage and make it more user frindly(better luggage space). Also make it a true coupe and get rid of the ill through out removable top.The G8 should remain pretty much as is but make it lighter to improve gas milage. Perhaps with lighter weight you could go to a smaller engine. That way you could improve gas milage and not sacrafice performance. Change the name to Bonnaville. At some point in time when things get better you can bring back the GTO based on the G6 with its own unique styling like the original GTO.
“And I believe the Vibe and G3 should cease to exist.”
Fred,
I can’t concur about the Vibe. It is one of the best-built, and most practical, useful, and economical cars GM offers. It is fairly compact, yet has all the usefulness and carrying capacity of a station wagon. It’s perfect for young singles, young families and even senior citizens who can make use of the higher seating position which enhances the ease of getting in and out.
Perhaps Pontiac is the wrong badge for the car, but GM needs to keep making a car like the Vibe.
I wish a car with the practical layout of the Vibe was getting the Volt’s series-hybrid propulsion system.
gtjeff,
I’ve driven Grand Prix and Grand Am.. not impressed certainly not worth the awards they won in the day. Same goes for the G6. Sorry. Actually I view Pontiac as only slightly better then Chevy. Pontiacs features are lackluster and interior styling non existent. My 87 Pontiac has better styling on the interior then the new ones do.
I just bought a G8 GT, my 2nd GM car out of 6 cars (2 Fords, 2 BMWs too). It’s a great performance value, but fuel economy wasn’t my primary concern. I certainly don’t think fuel economy when I think Pontiac, nor do I want to. I want a good driver’s car and if you can make it relatively fuel efficient, so be it. The G3 is a joke. Get rid of it. I don’t predict good sales. Why rebadge the Aveo (already lacking in the segment) and give Pontiac a car that also gets a combined 30mpg like the G5.
Speaking of the G5, it’s another case of re-badging that GM’s spent too much time on over the years. Apparently lessons haven’t been learned yet. If you’re going to have a G5 GT, it should have the much praised suspension from the Cobalt SS, even if it doesn’t have the turbo engine (which it should offer as an upgrade). It needs to be the fun to drive version of the Cavalier if you feel you need one.
The Vibe isn’t bad and I would buy that over the Matrix if I were looking for that sort of car. To answer another person’s question, the resale is lower, because of Toyota’s reputation.
The G6 is from the start of GM starting to make decent product, but it’s way behind the times now and not nearly good enough. I think it’s at least something different from what the other GM brands offer. It just needs the interior and driving dynamics to go with the nice exterior design.
If Pontiac is going to become a niche brand, it should have something like the G8, an updated G6, Solstice, and Vibe. I would suggest a smaller, 3-series size RWD car, but I know that’s not going to happen. The rumored DI V-6/6spd auto in the base G8 is definitely a start. Lowering the MSRP to be more of a spread from the G8 GT would help as well. It’s a great car but when people see the MSRP for the performance/gas mileage they get compared to the GT, they probably aren’t even looking at it. I know when I told people I was considering a Pontiac along with Infiniti (G37 sedan), BMW (CPO 335i), and Mazda (MS3), I got a lot of negative reactions from friends and coworkers that don’t know about the G8 (basically all the non-car enthusiasts). They just know Pontiac and have a very negative image.
You’re facing an up hill marathon and it’s not going to be easy. Not only do you need exciting products, but you need to make sure they’re reliable, and as fuel efficient as they can be for the class/performance. I haven’t heard good things about the G6 reliability for instance, and a quick look at Consumer Reports online confirmed it. Anyway, enough of my rambling.
As a high school senior, I have grown up in a “Pontiac household.” All of our family cars (with the exception of one) have been Pontiacs, and I have grown to love and trust the nameplate.
I am, however, rather concerned. I am disappointed with our 2003 Pontiac Montana, but that is water under the bridge — Pontiac, and GM as a whole, has no business building a minivan. Make Pontiac about the cars again. I am pleased to see the Torrent will be disappearing, but I am a tad crestfallen to see the G3 will survive. I understand the move is to get a small, affordable car into the Buick/GMC/Pontiac dealerships, but that car is not what Pontiac represents. Pontiac can sell all cars, and engineer them for fuel economy, but each should have a high performance trim of some kind. Make sure to put a solid fit and finish on the interiors to leave a good impression, and make sure the transmissions are 5, 6, or 7 speed, and do not hesitate to downshift, as they often do.
My primary suggestion for the short term is to offer a turbocharged version of the G5. Upgrade the suspension and make a few modifications, and I’m sure the G5 could make for an extremely fun car — especially with a turbo 4 under the hood. Now THAT would be a Pontiac. Aside from this change, I state my desire to build sport sedans for families that appreciate a little power, but still need 4-doors. Otherwise, the door is wide open. I reject the G3, but just about any type of car (not SUV, van, or truck) can be a Pontiac as long as it has aggressive styling, a performance trim, and a versatile and quality interior. If you address the issues in the annual Consumer Reports auto guide, I look forward to owning my own Pontiac someday in the future.
PONTIAC NEEDS TO GO BACK TO NAMES AND ROOTS.
G8 SHOULD BE RENAMED BONNEVILLE
2 DOOR VERSION OF G8 NAMED GRAND PRIX
G6 REPLACEMENT NAMED LEMANS
AS MUCH AS BOB LUTZ DID A GREAT JOB, THE NAMES HE GOT RID OF HAVE VALUE.
GET RID OF THE SOLSTICE, G3, AND G5
ONE LAST THING THE IMPALA NEEDS TO BE BASED ON ZETA
KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!
Bonneville is OLD school. The G8 has way more pizzaz, but needs an interior makeover to go with the name.
Pontiac should also stick to its roots – Montana’s, Vibes, G5, and yikes G3’s have no business wearing the Pontiac badge. When BMW builds a small car they call it a 135i and make it available with a 6cyl twin turbo. Get the picture – that is what Pontiac should be about. There is no rebadged Korean built anything in BMW’s lineup, and there shouldn’t be in Pontiac’s either. There were once rumors of a Pontiac built on the RWD alpha platform. What ever happened to that GREAT idea?
I still love the “We Build Excitement” tagline. It’s too bad that GM is straying so far from the pre-plastic-cladding identity when Pontiac used to stand for something. The “P” in Pontiac used to mean Performance.
I’m sorry, I want to believe that Pontiac has a viable future and will forge ahead, but I think the marketeers are blowing smoke up the unsuspecting public’s ass in order to sell through models that were just newly launched: G8 mainly. Think about all the money that was spent on getting this car to America. Do you think they are going to tell potential customers that Pontiac is on the same chopping block as Saturn is? Sure, the marketeers can easily tell you that today they have plans for the future but there’s no guarantee for what amount of time that is. I’ll tell you what that timescale is: when they move through current/future inventory and satisfy contracts hoping, along the way, that may be the G8 will be a hit, but knowing damn well it won’t.
Even before the market crashed, GM had no plans for a follow up platform for the G8 or the Solstice and has anyone heard them even mention their volume seller G6 replacement lately?
Alive and Lying their asses off. That sucks.
Really? The G3? What’s that, a rebadged Aveo? Don’t bother. And axe the G5 and G6 while you’re at it. GMC/Buick/Pontiac can survive with only the Vibe, G8, and Solstice as specialty Pontiac-badged cars. Chevy has the G3/G5/G6 equivalents covered. By trying to offer those cars as Pontiacs, you’re just delaying the inevitable. There is too much overlap.
Can Pontiac please give us the Firebird Trans Am again? If Pontiac is going to be successful, it needs to bring back the cars that actually gave it success. If you want to sell G3’s and G5’s, you have to bring people to the showroom. People just might drive a G3 because they know Pontiac also builds exciting other cars. It gives people a sense of pride. Please give us back the Firebird, GTO, Lemans, or even the Tempest.
If you build the Firebird T/A as a modern car with a modern design while still giving hints of heritage as the Camaro does while offering the latest technology with a powerful yet somewhat fuel efficient engine, people will flock to it. Especially if it is affordable. A 17,000 dollar V8 Trans Am would sell almost 100K cars a year!
My father’s first car he still has today is a ‘74 400/4-speed Grand Am. My first car ever was an ‘81 Turbo Trans Am. I currently drive an ‘02 Trans Am. In addition to these Pontiacs, various other GM products have graced our driveway. They’ve been good to us and we’ve never bought into the whole imports are always better than domestics belief. Yes, there was a time GM products were subpar, as both my father and I can attest to working in the auto industry. But GM has improved A LOT.
Now onto the whole deal with Pontiac. What have you guys done to the brand? The Vibe and the G3? Might as well bring back the Phoenix, T1000 and the Aztec. Thank God you killed off the Torrent and Montana. Those cars DO NOT define performance. The Solstice and G8 are steps in the right direction. A new Firebird or properly done GTO would be great, but I suppose the current situation GM is in would not warrant that. Stop with the whole G-this and G-that. Bring back the iconic names like Grand Prix and Bonneville so that they are recognizable to your loyal customers, but build them thoroughly modern like you have with the G8 to attract new buyers. A Mustang and Camaro will always be a Mustang and Camaro and there is no need to change those names to attract new customers. If strictly performance is what you intend for Pontiac, then both a direction like Scion or Mini Cooper for your smaller cars and M-B’s AMG or BMW’s M-series for your modern-muscle are easily attainable with the low volume direction you intend to take Pontiac in for now. Don’t let the brand die, price it for the working man, and resurrect the Firebird!
John,
I FULLY DISAGREE WITH YOU!!!
KEEP THE G NAMES.
Sorry for the SHOUTING. But GM’s choice to get rid of the old names is the right move right now. Those OLD names mean nothing to young people who aren’t into classic cars. Sorry but thats reality. GM needs to sell to the majority not the minority. And even at that if you want names again at least pick some new ones and re-establish the culture of them.
Nate,
I respectfully disagree with G Names. Here is why.
Look at Lincoln MKZ, MKS, MKT. BMW I this and Z that these are letters. Names associate something with the car Bonneville is where people race cars. G8 is a fast car. Also, people like certain brands and if you continue to change names people who don’t follow the car industry get confused.
One more Example: There was nothing wrong with the Lesabre name, but they got rid of it and the Lucerne name meant nothing to prospective buyers. That’s one reason sales tanked.
You mentioned younger people. I believe that people who maket cars always miss the mark.
There is this idea that older people want the same fuddy duddy cars that lack style and updated features. I thing old and young both want comfortable stylish cars. Just because you are older does not mean you don’t car about style or a youthful feel about your car.
I am all for new names but you don’t go well into the future unless you remember what made you great in the past.
THE CAR SELLS THE NAME. NOT THE NAME SELLING THE CAR. NOBODY COMPLAINS ABOUT THE CAMARO NAME. I do understand where you are coming from on this issue.
I’d like to see a lineup from Pontiac focused on cars like the Civic Si, Mazdaspeed 3, and Scion tC. Small, sporty, extremely fun to drive cars that are economical but still have an attitude.
I do agree the entire Pontiac lineup should be small, focused, and well defined and thought out – without overlap from any other GM division.
First and foremost, every car Pontiac makes must come with a 6 speed transmission, and they should all be available in either a stick or automatic (paddle shifters = automatic in my mind).
Offer at least one model with AWD. Every car in the lineup should have 4 wheel disc brakes and 4 wheel independent suspension standard as well.
These are not hard or expensive to do. The whole Pontiac lineup should have a price range between $16,500 and $24,900. The G8, while a great car, is basically a 4 door Camaro, and you can’t get a manual on any of the trim levels most people can afford. Remember what I said about product overlap.
Leave the econobox G3 to the Chevy Aveo. It’s an ugly dog anyway. Really degrades and diminishes the Pontiac nameplate.
But, I’ve already come to the conclusion that since these are such good ideas GM will not explore them thus they have the situation they are in today.
I have to agree with Nate. The old names are not the issue here. I actually prefer the new naming convention to the old. I might have been less inclined to buy my G8 if it was named Bonneville. I just don’t have a positive image of Bonnevilles. The Grand Am is even worse. They were right to call its replacement the G6. G5 is definitely better than Sunfire.
Unfortunately, I think the Pontiac brand no longer has any equity whatsoever. The glory days of the John Delorean/Bunkie Knudsen inspired GTO, Firebird, and Grand Prix were so long ago that few individuals under the age of 45 even remember them. The succession of mediocre rental cars sold under the Pontiac nameplate for the last 20 years (save for the Firebird) is what people remember. I don’t understand why GM puts any effort in such lost cause, even considering their ‘effort’ will undoubtably be more rebadging of existing GM vehicles. What I find even harder to understand is while GM screws around with obsolete brands like Pontiac and Buick, they are hell-bent to sell off profitable operations such as Electro-Motive, Allison Transmission, and their medium and heavy truck business, claiming they are ‘non-core’. Am I to understand that GM’s core business is marketing unprofitable car lines? Sure seems like it, doesn’t it?
Just let it die a graceful death. GM needs to focus on three world brands. Chevy, Buick, and Caddilac. Phase out everything else. You have world class platforms in every segment, just too many names and brands. It’s just plane crazy to build the Lacrosse for the US market when the Insignia just received awards for it’s design and will be a Buick Regal in China. The G8/ Holden Commadore/ Caprice should have been the new Impala especially since it is already sold as a Chevy in overseas markets outside of Europe and Australia/ New Zealand; and a Buick in China. Since Chevy is being sold in western Europe, phase out the Opel/ Vauxall nameplates and let Holden use the Chevy name until the Holden name is eventually phased out. Consolidation has to be worldwide.
I have a question for Stan. Exactly how much did your taxes go up after the government bailed everyone out?
Mine didn’t go up, probably because we didn’t pay for it. China and Dubai, paid for most of it. Not us.
I think Bob B is wrong. I think PMD can be great again, and it can start RIGHT NOW! Bob harkens back to the days of Deloren and Knudsen as if they were some kind of wizards who conjured up cars out of the ether. Here is Johnny D’s big trick: Take what GM give you as a base, then go to the corporate parts bin and scrounge every ‘go fast’ bit you can find and graft them into what you already have. Pontiac G3: Drop a 2L turbo 4 into it , pilfer a couple of recaro buckets from the HHR, jam a six spd stick into it, tweak the suspension a’ la the late grand prix GXP and SHAZAM! Pontiac G3 H.O a 250HP buzz bomb! Torque steer, who cares! The Mini cooper S Cooper Works has gobs of torque steer and nobody cares, it’s fast and it handles. Solstice: Direct injected V6, maybe try to jam a supercharger on it , try to get as close to 400 HP as possible! BAM Pontiac Solstice “Judge” . Getting the picture? Sure these cars might be a little rough around the edges, but they might just be fun as heck to drive. Forget about “being like BMW” if you wanna drop 40G’s on a 1series it’s your money. Be PONTIAC!! Hoist the jolly roger above the company HQ and start firing broadsides already!!!
The four nameplates, or types of vehicles, that I would like to see past 2013: Solstice, Vibe, Grand AM, and Grand Prix.
When economic conditions are better I would still enjoy seeing a Goat or a TA from time to time, but those vehicles are more nostaglia and get old quick; the same can be said for an ST. Also, the Vibe should be replaced eventually with a smaller and nicer pocket rocket, such as an Opel OPC with 35+ mpg, once such a vehicle is available and the Vibe can find a life in another brand
Lastly, I never was a liked the G6 type of naming conventions, Grand AM, Grand Prix are very unique and still have staying power; just take a look on the street.
Pontiac has lost it’s way through this decade. They still are the performance division, but have failed to retain that “value based, go-fast” edge that the blue collar guys ran to in droves. Yeah, the styling was often over the top, but it had an audience. You have to recognize that. Just like in the late eighties to early nineties when Oldsmobile alienated it’s fan base and look where that got them! Remember the “this is not your father’s Oldsmobile” tagline. That’s what is now on Olds’ grave marker.
The G3 is an embarrassment to the brand as is the Aveo is an embarrassment to the company.
John,
I disagree with you here’s why.
If you use names the cars represent only themselves and don’t represent the relationship within the brand. For example a BMW 3,5,6,7 series a customer knows just by the name of the car about what it cost and where it ranks within the company.
Where does a Malibu, Impala and Cobalt rank compared to one another (pretend you know nothing about Chevy).
Where does a G3, G5, G6 and G8 rank compared to each other? There is a huge advantage to the G naming structures. If you look around almost every luxury/high end car maker uses that branding. it appeals to a certain type of people. Almost every common every day car uses naming schemes.,
There was nothing wrong with the ParkAvenue, Lesabre name except that a name is a way to sum a product up.. a way to identify it. Both those names have and had OLD PEOPLE written all over them. I should know I’m in my mid twenties… most people my age think of Buick’s as old people’s cars. I also should know that Park Avenues are nice cars (my dad has had 4 of them in the past 20 years). I also know that names are important.
It was important for GM to loose the “OLD PEOPLE” car image by changing names. New name… new product……
The name change had nothing to do with the tanking of the product. The product did. There is a certain group that Buicks typically appeal to due to their price, style and features. It has NOTHING to do with the name. (or at very least the name has little bearing except sealing the deal on the car’s identity).
I’m not only talking about young people who market cars. I am talking about young people as customers wanting to buy them. Because lets face it times are changing and GM needs to appeal to younger buyers who have more modern tastes in cars.
That is true I suppose but why does GM keep making old people cars out of Buick when they could make CTS like cars and sell to more people? I think it has to do with their culture. They think people want that… the LaCrosse is the first Buick to really break that mold that I have seen.
What IS true about older people is that they have a more refined taste… for instance when I was in my teens I preferred loud cars… now I think my old Buick is to noisy inside.
I disagree what made Buicks great in the past will no longer do so today. Buicks used to be known for their land yacht ride… many people today don’t care for that ride. Additionally people need to realize there are times to hold on to the past and times to embrace the future. …
The Camaro is a very very distinct name just like corvette… to the point that GM could make the Corvette and Camaro their own brand name… AND GM has managed to capture the essence of the old Camaros with the new ones. The Corvette to an extent also… though the Corvette has a tough act to follow.. it has to continue to look like a Corvette of the past while also looking more like a Ferrari every year…. it also has to perform better and better.
As for the rest of GMs cars… most of them have soiled names with many many potential customers. It makes no sense to keep the name.
As an excercise… think back to a time when you were in public and heard a familiar name or saw someone who looked familiar. Did an image pop into your mind when you heard the name? And did a name pop into mind when you saw the person’s face? It happens to me all the time. The act of recalling a face to go with a name also tends to make me recall details about the person… The same too is true of a car. The word Cavalier to many people means cheap, junky car…. while the sight of the new LaCrosse makes people think Lexus…. a name can make or break a car to buyers who have left GM… but at the same time a great car design will create a name for itself (like the Camaro and Corvette have as well as BMW and a few others).
That is why Loosing the old names is so important.
Then again I never liked the half finished value based go fast design of Pontiacs. They offer great styling but represent a car that isn’t finished and lacks appeal to people like me. I have driven Grand Prixs, Grand Ams, G6s, G5s and even Trans Ams and I say the same thing about every one of them… fun to drive but to unrefined to be a car I would actually want to own.
I don’t really see Pontiac as a performance division anymore… especially when cars like Chevy, Buick and Cadillac come with almost 300 HP. In order for pontiac to continue to be a performance division they need to match the handling and performance of CTS, and Corvette… something they don’t do… They are just another Chevy in my book. And why wouldn’t they be? I can get a Chevy that out performs most of what Pontiac offers… With that said what marketing appeal is there to them? They are just another car that thinks it can go fast….
You say it was the grave marker… I say it was the first step in all of what is happening now. How was an olds in the mid 90s different then any other car? I used to have a 1990 Cutlass… and I loved that car. It had a nice looking interior, computer to tell you fuel economy, All electronic dash and controls. Inflatable seats that felt like racing seats… Wide tires that gave it a great feel around turns… its only downside was a poor engine/transmission combination. But looking back on it by todays standards it isn’t much better then a Chevy. Many of the plastic parts didn’t hold up and the car aged very badly. If I could buy a 1990 Olds Cutlass Supreme International (hows that for a vehicle name) with a modern 300 HP V6 in it… I probably would…
As customer standards have risen the role of each GM brand has changed. To the point where a Chevy is much nicer then it ever has been….. so where are brands like Pontiac, Olds and Buick to go but away? Today’s cars are now combining and cross pollinating roles as luxury, performance and economy cars… Something that in the past just wasn’t possible.
In my opinion Olds died because they tried to be trendy and lost things that made them so appealing (like the digital computer and dash that displayed everything) and gave way to the traditional gauges and boring features found on any other car. Even the new CTS lacks a digital clock… one thing I’m not happy about….. then again I am a fan of digital things.
The Olds Alero were a very nice car was the Intrigue. I can tell you from experience the Intrigue talked the talk but can’t walk the walk. The car handled as well as a Pontiac ever could want to, had interior styling to rival Buick and Cadillac (in its day) but had quality on par with the likes of Chevy. Our 2001 Intrigue has only 90K on it and already had a new transmission and A/C compressor put in it. Additionally the interior plastic is breaking… Its no wonder Olds didn’t make it… they were so close but so far away. Pontiac is the same way right now in my opinion….
Rick Rhode,
Two brands… Opel and Cadillac… no others are needed for cars… Keep chevy for trucks only… I really like Opel’s name better then Chevy….I’m sorry to hear that you want to phase Opel out…
GM is wrong for reducing Pontiac to a niche brand.
Sales for Feb 09 put Pontiac well above Buick
Of all the GM brands, Pontiac retained the most customers compared to Feb 08
Even if Buick doubled it’s sales it would be behind Pontiac… What’s going on?
Who makes these decisions??
>First, very little is changing in the near term. Pontiac will continue to offer the G5, G6, G8, Solstice and Vibe, and we’re adding the economical G3. Pontiac’s top reason for purchase is “fuel economy” and we won’t disappoint with four of our six entries getting over 32 miles per gallon on the highway<
Those cars and names are the problem. You killed the brand by bringing in those idiotic ‘G’ names and then you further killed it by bringing on an Aveo clone. Are you kidding me?
The Aveo is already a POS so now you give one to your ‘excitement’ brand and say it with a straight face? Amazingly clueless.
This should be the Pontiac lineup:
LeMans (Corsa)
Grand Am (Astra)
Grand Prix (G8)
Firebird (just do it for crying out loud)
Solstice (but improve the interior ergonomics)
Not so hard, is it? Now fire Wagoner and get a real CEO from outside the company like Ford did.
SteveG,
What about the vibe?
The Vibe is one of the best-built, and most practical, useful, and economical cars GM offers. It is fairly compact, yet has all the usefulness and carrying capacity of a station wagon. It’s perfect for young singles, young families and even senior citizens who can make use of the higher seating position which enhances the ease of getting in and out.
Perhaps Pontiac is the wrong badge for the car, but GM needs a car in its lineup like the Vibe.
I wish GM would use the Voltec series-hybrid propulsion system in a car with the practicality of the Vibe.
First and foremost, I am a ride or die person when it comes to Pontiac…I will NOT buy another car. What disturbs me is the comment “Pontiac’s top reason for purchase is “fuel economy”. Clearly, GM does not understand its consumer base, and that’s why Pontiac and GM is in the state that its in. Pontiac buyers, in general, do not care about fuel economy. They want performance, quality, and individuality. They are the rebels, the one’s who know their cars, and are willing to challenge anyone who dares to defy them. The only true Pontiac out there is the G8 (which should be called the Grand Prix or Tempest) and maybe the Soltice. G8 buyers know what’s under the hood and are not afraid to prove it. Unfortunately, Pontiac is relegated to Grand Ams, Sunfires, and the Toyota Corollas; and in spite of this, still outsells Mazda, Jetta, and Subaru. Since Pontiac will be a niche car, the only cars needed are the RWD/AWD G8 sedan and coupe, a RWD/AWD G6 sedan and coupe, and the Soltice (soft and hardtop.)
If GM would provide customers with the products they want and not half-ass produce cars and trucks, they will, once again, retain the title of number one in car sales. Listen to the customers…Pontiac buyers want M5 killers not rebadged Aveos. We want the cars that gives you chills up your spine and goosebumps when you press the accelerator (and we should not have to get 5 mpg to get that thrill.) Also, bring back the names that we love…Grand Prix, LeMans, Bonneville, Tempest, Firebird, GTO. And advertise…please. I have yet to see a G8 commercial and I live in NYC!
Actually, you can’t phase out Opel/Vauxhall.
They are not competing with Chevy in Europe. Chevy is a Korean brand with interior finish inferior to any European company. I say that as a GM employee.
Opel has a somewhat dusted air around it, but that’s changing. Actually, they are one notch above Ford, on par with VW with their European line up. Take your time to go to http://www.opel.de and go on to a car configurator…you will be surprised how many options you will find and what prices are called! And you will be surprised that in a country without a general speed limit, no 6cyls. are offered in a midsize sedan as the Insignia.
Someone wanted Vauxhall to die – that’s not necessary, either. Opel=Vauxhall in the UK (Great Britain). Yes, it’s badge engineering. But it’s really at noc cost, because it’s really only the badges! They do have slightly other trims, but are in fact identical cars. We do not even distinguish between the plants we build them in! The only difference is that Vauxhall dares to import the Holden Commodore V8 (aka Pontiac G8) to Britain and we don’t. Vauxhall has a name in the UK, so why introduce Opel?
BTW….BMW offers the 1 and 3-series with 4cylinders here, did you notice?
Thanks for supporting GM anyway,
SuAlfons
To your comment:
“We understand all too well the challenges we face at this time and in this truly difficult economy,” Mr. Harris wrote. “But we’re not giving up, we’re not giving in, and we sure aren’t planning on going away.”
The thing that continually bothers me, GM officials continually speaking of this as the “government”. You are asking our president and many leaders of many other countries for their government funds…..
Does this continue to happen, as if you make the statements that you want the American people to bring you out of your crisis, does this bring it down to (mentally and emotionally) to the actual people you are asking for this money?
I as one of these tax payers am extremely angry that this is constantly a moving target for GM, from week to week, month to month, the number changes. If I ran my business in this manner, I could not only, not manage properly, but, lose the confidence of the people I am working for, and the people that work for me.
The other problem I have is, if you cant make enough to make it through this market down turn, why are you buying a unit of Delphi? That $500 MILLION will go a long way….. This is so counter-intuitive! I as a tax payer do not want to continue to support a company that does not really seem to know what it needs to support it self!
Sorry for venting on whomever reads this, but, its so frustrating!
Nate,
Thank you for your input. I think we are sort of on the same page that a great product will sell itself. The reason that changing names are not always good (I agree sometimes a name is so trashed it can never continue) is the expense of advertising. Ford brought back the Taurus name because people know it’s a Ford. The new Taurus will break any notion of what people thought about the old car.
The Cavalier name, which I don’t like as much as Cruze, could be used because the Cruze is so cool and unexpected.
I always knew that Saturn would flop. It was a waste of money. If GM put as much effort into other divisions the company would have had better products in the 70’s, 80’s, and 90’s.
GM only ever needed Chevrolet, Buick, and Cadillac. They don’t even need GMC as a core brand. If the reason for GMC is to keep the BPG channel profitable, it won’t.
I think we are both for a stonger GM and with people taking time to give opinions about how to be successful GM has it’s best days ahead.
I never liked the names Century, Special, Cobalt, Nova, Apollo, Omega.
I like Caprice, Impala, Malibu, Cruze, LeSabre, Electra, Regal, Cutlass, Bonneville, GPrix
GM should have assembled a committee of Pontiac enthusiasts to chart a way forward for the company. then and only then would they understand their core demographic and how to effectively reach out to them.
Because GM has been in crisis mode they put a band-aid on all of their operations. alot of cars began to be imported from their international and european brands and rebadged as uniquely U.S. cars.
Pontiac can still survive it may go through a name change as globalization occurs, but in the future we can most likely expect GM to bring back the name plates of their glory days like firebird and GTO.
There has been talk around the blogging community about a firebird based off the camaro platform. I think that would be an intelligent and logical step for all those fans who have been waiting years to see the rebirth of the firebird.
there are many great points laid out in their way forward plan put forth by GM, I just personally feel without the globalization/brand name reduction portion to take their 12 brands down to 4 or 5 that the company will still be at a competitive disadvantage trying to pour research and development, management, and labor costs into entirely too many brands.
Pontiac is said to be getting a rebadged holden ute as a car in their line up for 2010-2011, I actually think it is a decent vehicle and would be inclined to buy one. when name plates like chevrolet,buick and cadillac got front-end redesigns and new stylish grills, they forgot to give the same update to Pontiac, leaving much of their lineup looking the same exact way it has since 1995. Pontiac is not suffering from folks not supporting their brand, it is suffering due to lack of investment or direction by the parent company. Pontiac like saturn was left out to die so that GM could pour money into cadillac and chevrolet. now wonder why their other divisions like saturn or pontiac arent doing well?
theres enough blame to go around but their options for restructuring and keeping so many dysfunctional brands that need massive invesment are far and few between.
Nate,
John has a point in his original comment about using classic names for Pontiac.
A name has nothing to do with ‘old people image’ as you assert. Its the style of the vehicle which determines customer perception. Factors like refined looks and size may cause the public to assign an image over time. The G6 turned out to be a good name. G8 GT is fine since its a unique car and doesn’t resemble anything Pontiac has tried before. But it may be time for GM to make a Lemans, GTO, and Firebird Bandit. The name Bonneville should wait for now until a concept design emerges that can tease the public.
Buick should have a LaCrosse Grand National for example to energize a youth appeal. Older buyers like performance and younger buyers like refinement. So Buick can satisfy booth. The look of certain car designs like the LaSabre were more mature in design and not appealing to the youth. Buick does need to recognize that and design products with a broad appeal like the new 2010 LaCrosse seems to do. The 2010 LaCrosse would still look great with a spoiler option and duel exhaust for sport.
BMW has done well with its series. Its the management of the look as a series that seems to drive the success. BMW sells most of its cars at the low end so its naming scheme is not necessarily the reason except that those who buy a 3 series are supposed to feel like they have a more expensive 5 or 7.
Cadillac has captured a successful look in a series. GM should reach out to other luxury segents by adding one more look to its Cadillac sedan line-up and having an entry level Cadillacl to compete with the BMW 135i and Lexus IS that reaches down on price to the youth while having a performance image.
Nate,
Why would you pick Opel over Chevrolet? I bet baseball, hot dogs, apple pie and Opel sounds great.
This post proves only one thing, GM’s Vice President’s dont even understand the brands they represent. People buy Pontiac’s because the brand is known for performance or style, no way is fuel economy among the top two reasons mentioned for purchasing a Pontiac.
GM’s problem is that they have turned their back on their Pontiac customer base, by canceling cars like the Fiero, Trans Am, Grand Prix and GTO and also by bulldozing the names your customer’s can identify with.
First course of business should be to get rid of Bob Lutz’s alphabet soup names. Pontiac has a great heritage, it is one of GM’s strengths. The Japanese manufacturers wish they had the heritage that GM cluelessly ignores.
Step two, tell us about some new product. It is as if GM is in paralysis, unable to make any decisions. The nearly $1 billion lost on Saab recently would have funded two new Pontiac models.
3rd, Ask your customers here what they would like to see from Pontiac. Its time to change the way you do business.
4th, Drop the G3, it clearly doesnt fit with Pontiac’s brand image. Understand your customer, meet their needs and Pontiac could be the excitement brand again.
John,
I agree to a point… GM has way to many names. I think they need Opel in the US. They need a new brand they can advertise as a “new” European brand that will appeal to VW, Audi, Toyota, Honda, Lexus, and Acura buyers. Plain and simple Opel is it. It has nearly no brand definition in the US especially with younger consumers. And that gives GM the ability to define it. They can define it however their products end up defining it.
Personally I think Cobalt is a great name… medicre product. Personally I hate Caprice (was never a good car in my opinion). Malibu works, Cruze I’m iffy on, LeSabre is just old, same with Electra, Regal,… Cutlass is ok but worn out, same with Bonneville and Grand Prix…
Time for less names and less car models.
GMisCARKING,
Why on earth would Obama give people loans who have bad credit? It seems like just another way to put us into a further tail spin. Thats already what happened with the mortgage companies…. so now you want them to do that with cars?
Absolutely insane in my opinion.
The government needs to guarantee GM warranties on current cars and then force GM to significantly reduce their production capacity and model lineup until GM can return to a profit and sells off its excess inventory.
Chris M,
I agree with you to an extent on the AWD V6 options. I think if the G8 were offered as AWD it would be a nice lower cost alternative to the CTS4 AWD. One I certainly would consider.
If GM updates the dash on the G8… what is left besides exterior to separate it price wise from the CTS?
As you mentioned though the G8 (and CTS) don’t come with seat pass through for such things as skiis and snow boards (like the Acura TLs have). Why can’t GM put folding seats and a small pass through for such things?
Structurally the pass through would work well on a G8….
Edwin,
The G6 handles ok… I’ve never personally been able to push it to hard. The rental I had was in the snow… But before the snow fell it felt quite nice… I suspect though that it won’t keep up to the likes of Mazda or their Speed edition….
The dash is styled ok but lacks the feel of quality that it should have. If you want to see that jump in a Honda Accord or a Toyota… the have leather on things and the dash feels solid not flimsy, flexible and plasticy. The G6 on the other hand feels like a hollow plastic shell so thing it would crack in low temperatures.
Also take a look at the G8 much nicer dash.. not a nice as a CTS but more modern and nicer.
Also the G6 lacks a GPS/Nav Option….
I agree on seat comfort. Though I never drove one for more then 2 hours straight.
I did however sit in a CTS and find the seats very uncomfortable.
Shift Algorithms… the manual shift mode was to soft for me. And I have NO confidence in the GM 4 speed.
EVERY GM car I’ve owned with a 4T60, 4T65, and 4T80 have had transmission failures less then 130K. One of my Pontiacs has a 5 peed and went to 173K before I needed to replace the blocker rings (aka swap a spare transmission in).
The 4 speeds may seem good but mechanically I’m not convinced. Fuel economy may be great in class but I drive a 1990 Buick with a 4T60 in it and a 3.1L engine and it gets 29 MPG (averaged actual on a series of 1000 mile trips up and down the east coast on I-95). I never got that kind of economy in the rental G6. I would expect a modern car like the G6 to get at least 32 MPG.
beken,
Pontiac isn’t that much less sportier then before… the rest of the market has demanded more sporty cars.. diluting Pontiacs to cars that are just competing an nothing special. Example.. what doe GM offer that can touch the Mazda 3 Speed… the GXP G6? GXP G5? Both of which lack the interior to match….
How about cars like Subaru WRX… where does GM have a car that can compete?
Other brands have stepped up the comfort, luxury, and performance. That is why GM no longer is Driving excitement (because Chevy, Cadillac also build Driving Excitement now).
I recently wrote an article on my blog talking about how the recent news of GM halting the operations of its performance division may actually help breathe some life into Pontiac. You can read the article here:
http://www.autotribute.com/2009/02/niche-pontiac-seems-bit-more-viable-all.html
Virtually, what its saying is that GM can use this misfortune to focus its performance image on Pontiac. Since most performance trims for, say, Chevy will cease means there will be little overlapping between it and Pontiac products.
“GM should have assembled a committee of Pontiac enthusiasts to chart a way forward for the company.”
Alex,
GM would never do something like that. That would be putting the customers first. GM long ago forgot that the keys to being a successful commercial enterprise is customer satisfaction.
A company that can’t satisfy its customers will watch them go elsewhere.
Hi
I am glad to hear the certainty on the Pontiac Brand.
I wish to relate my personal experience with Pontiac: I have driven the Pontiac G6 with teh V6 engine. I was quite impressed with the car. Liked the interiors, and the car as a whole.
My personal take on this is: Dont discontinue it, its well established, and has a identity. When you position it as a nitche, (which makes sense), focus on its core attributes, like sportiness, (the kind of car the Firebird was). But, I also suggest, make it more global. You can try this in emerging markets, where you sell Chevrolet, mostly based on your GM-Daewoo range of cars. It would fit well, as Chevrolet would serve the mass market, and Pontiac the sports Nitche. Top it up with Cadillac, and that practically completes the hierarchy. I know thats how it was intended to be, in the US, but the problem is when you guys overlap the individual brand segments.
I can assure you this strategy would work pretty well in countries liek India (I am from India), where the market is still maturing. There is emmense scope. Your current offering here practically leaves the luxury & mid segment unrepresented. Its prudent not to loose that segment to the likes of Audi & BMW, especially when these brands themselves are new here.
AJ
Susan,
Pontiac’s top reason for purchase is fuel economy? With all due respect, have we stepped that far away from Pontiac’s mission? From what made Pontiac a popular offering for so many years?
I’ve owned 5 Pontiacs over the years, and own one now. Fuel economy was not a reason for purchasing a Pontiac. Style was. Performance was. Value was. Image was. You know, all those things that Nissan and Mazda have these days, in spades? What happened to Pontiac being the “Excitement Division?” You know, back when Pontiac actually mattered to GM, and sold a whole ton of cars?
I’m as loyal a GM fan as there is, and I want nothing more than for Pontiac to reclaim its former glory. Nissan and Mazda prove that there is a decent-sized niche for people looking for an exciting, performance-oriented vehicle. I sold Pontiacs for 6 years…from ‘00-’06. It was sad watching nameplates be ignored and abandoned…Bonneville, Firebird, Grand Am, and later, Grand Prix.
I look forward to Pontiac getting back to basics…but the question is, does GM even know what it wants Pontiac to be? Pontiac was about performance, style and value…things my ‘04 Grand Prix GTP has in spades. Offerings like the G8 and Solstice give me real hope for the future…
But when Pontiac’s own VP is touting fuel economy as the reason to purchase, I have to wonder. I know how important fuel economy is, and I know with the government intervening, it will be more important than ever. But still…Pontiac, its history, and its loyal owner following (which is dwindling more and more, sadly) is about far, far more than just fuel economy.
Respectfully,
Jason Emmett
Southampton, MA
Nate,
Thank you for your insights, especially about the G6. It’s certainly one of our older products and we are making improvements, including a new four-cylinder-six-speed transmission version of both the sedan and coupe that get 32 mpg on the highway. We’ve also made some interior enhancements along with new radio options, but we know that we are a “work-in-progress”
and some of our older product could use improvement.
We’re learning a lot from the customer reaction to the G8, which we’ll be using as future Pontiac’s are designed and built. AWD is something we’ve talked about (it’s offered in the Vibe) and it’s something we can consider for the future. As new Pontiacs come to market, I hope you’ll see the kind of positive changes you’re suggesting.
Susan
Stan,
I respect your opinion, but would like to point out a couple of things for your to consider. First, GMC is GM’s second best-selling brand (behind only Chevy), its customers are extremely loyal to the brand, and we’ve had great success with unique vehicles like the Denali series. While I admit
that many of our features and benefits are the same as Chevy, our brand image is unique and draws in a different type of customer, who may or may not be interested in another GM product. Trucks are still an important, but smaller, market for us, so having two truck brands helps us reach the maximum number of potential customers.
I also agree that Pontiac lost its way in the ’80s and ’90s, but it is still GM’s third best selling brand. We’ve got a lot of work to do to get better (as you point out, the G8 is a great start), and that’s why we are going to focus Pontiac on fewer cars that are far better than what we’ve built in the past.
Susan
Hello Susan,
I cannot help but to agree whole heartedly with what Jason Emmett said above. I recently purchased a new G8 GT. I am in sales… I put on over 1K a week in mileage. the reason I bought the car was because it offered what I wanted from GM for A VERY LONG TIME! I bought it because it was a V8, RWD car that looked phenominal! the car screams class envy and people still to this day give me second looks when I drive down the road. Now, to help you with your argument I will say that the G8 GT does get great mileage for a car putting out 360 hp! and with the modifications I’ve made to it I have a 400hp car putting down 28/29 mpg on the hwy! NOW THAT’S COOL!
I have owned 4 other Pontiacs in my lifetime and it bothers me that GM does’nt understand Pontiacs demographics. It really in my mind is not that hard of a business model and should’nt be hard to duplicate. One only needs to look back 10-15 years ago to see why. It was the styling and the passion of the breed of car that made it what it was. If GM chooses to do this again with the current build quality and design capabilities it has the ability to do, then Pontiac could regain its seat as the #2 producing company for GM behind Chevrolet.
Please know that I bleed GM… I am a die hard fan, always have been and always will be… I only want what’s best for the company as a whole.
Please, Please, Please… continue to drive home the vehicle plans to fruition that I know GM can build!
I want my two kids to have the same enjoyment that I have had driving GM vehicles (Pontiacs included) when they get of age.
Sincerely,
Aric Vonasek
Gretna (Omaha), NE
Susan Docherty,
You can continue going down the line of 3rd,4th,5th and 6th best selling brands but what you and the company need to realize is consolidation is an absolute must. If you would like to keep GMC that is for both yourself and the company to decide if completely replicating the chevy truck line-up is actually beneficial for the company at this stage.
Why can’t pontiac become Holden U.S.A, I havent heard any replies to this suggestion from yourself or other managers. I believe Pontiac could be successfull at importing the entire Holden Line-up under its brand here in the U.S.
Why can’t saturn become Opel in the U.S. why would GM rather sell this important dealer-network to an emerging automaker instead of having this become the sales channel for the stylish european small vehicles their U.S. counterparts sorely lack.
this takes two brands that previous required heavy investment and allows them to simply import successful international vehicles without tons of investment or R and D.
Hummer should be completely shut down, while Saab should either be sold to the swedish government or shut down as well.
There is no reason for the Daewoo name to remain anymore and it should be folded into Holden as well as Pontiac.
Buick can also remain successful by being relegated to a niche brand with 4-5 stylish updated models.
why is the company not pursuing an aspect like that? the company can keep GMC,Pontiac,Buick as a sales channel with minor updates and upgrades to allow pontiac to be the importer of all holden vehicles. It can avoid massive dealer lawsuits from closure or sale of saturn to a foreign automotive make, with a rebranding as Opel to create an international small-car player. and therefore focus all of their attention, time and money, on the reinvigorating of the Cadillac and Chevrolet lines.
GM N.America would look like this going forward : Buick-Opel-Pontiac-GMC-Chevrolet and Cadillac.
minimizing costs while cutting losses. the problem is, there are too many brands and they cannibalize eachother. of the many marques in america GM has about 10 different brands which is not only excessive but a resource drain. It is really time to wake up and reorganize in a big way.
Why have there not been more comments about those suggestions by managers that review these blogs?
Pontiac is in my blood. Pontiac has aways meant stlying and sportiness and before “Bunky” depedandabilty. Pontiac has a GREAT heritage. Who hasn’t heard of a GTO. This brings me to my point of core brand.How can you place GMC over Pontiac as a core brand?? GMC are warmed over Chevy products.No two ways about it. How much history or name recognician does GMC have over Pontiac?NONE in my opinion. GM should focus on Chevrolet,Pontiac ,Buick & Caddilac in that order and priority as history has dictated in the past. All others GMC,Saturn,Hummer etc should be dumped immediately. Focus on the customer. I own a 62 Catalina,a 77 Lemans Sport Coupe, a 2002 Bonneville and a 1998 Firefird. Not one of these spectacular nameplates are still in existance.To be modern, stylish and up to date doesn’t mean to forget your past. Firebird ,GTO & Trans AM along with all the others are not names to toss aside for G-3-4-5-6-7-8!
Give Pontiac attention like you give Chevrolet &Cadilac and there would be on reason for grouping ailing nameplates like Buick,GMC Pontiac . Give all core brands a fighting chance-even the playing field & maybe GM will be the mark of excellence again.
PLEASE LISTEN
Marty Covais
The following is a letter sent to POCI
Explains Pontiac in my blood!!
Ever since my Dad drove home the used but shiny 62 Pontiac Catalina 4 door in 1965, I’ve been in love with Pontiacs. It was a bitter sweet love at first. I had been in love before ,this with our beloved 51 Dodge Coronet. In 65 I was 8 years old and my first words I ever spoke was I love my Dodge car! But in a few short months, I was hooked. For the next 10 years or so I spent taking car of my Dad’s Pontiac. It was rarely dirty and always attended to. Finally in 1975 my Dad succumbed to my pleas & gave me the Catalina.It has been by my side ever since to this day. I live & breathe Pontiacs.In 1980, I bought a duplicate 62 4 door Catalina, same color, the only difference, this was a vista hardtop, my original being a sedan. I begged my two sisters to get Pontiacs. I found them each, one a red 69 Tempest 2 dr sports sedan with an OHC 6, & a 2 dr 70 Lemans Sport with a 350. A few years later , I found a 77 Ventura for my Dad.
My two Catalina’s served me well into the 80’s until my new wife finally urged me to downsize my Catalina fleet to just one. My vista sedan was woefully parted out, with all parts stored in my basement. We have no garage. My sister eventually moved away & gave me the 69 Tempest. The Tempest & the Catalina were our daily drivers through this period. The Tempest was replaced in 1988 with my current 77 Lemans Sport Coupe. In the 90’s again I found my Dad a 91 4dr Grand Am which in the late 90’s I later inherited. This Grand Am served us extremely well.In 2004 we bought our first “almost new” Pontiac Bonneville and a little later my daughter ,a 98 Firebird.
So you see I live & breathe Pontiacs… So now the hard part….
What is GM doing to Pontiac? What is happening with GM? What are they thinking?
I believe GM has a warped way of thinking. I realize they have to do something, but what they are doing is just absurd. How can they by -pass Pontiac as a core brand???? Why in the world keep GMC as a core brand?!?! GMC is all Chevy.They are Chevy clones. Who needs 2 Chevy brands. Can any one tell me what the difference between a Chevy & a GMC is….NOTHING .Why keep GMC as a core brand?!?!? I don’t know.
In my humble Pontiac minded opinion –Keep the core brands pretty much the way they have always been Chevy -Pontiac- Buick-Cadillac in that order & DUMP ALL other losers GM makes. Those 4 core brands have a HERITAGE GM seems to want to ignore or forget.
WE as members of POCI…how can we make GM understand? Is it too late? Do I have to go out and buy a Dodge Challenger?? Ford & Dodge seem to learn from their mistakes. But does GM? Does Pontiac? Remember Pontiac 6000GLE …. G3-G5 G6 G8 -GTO a foreign platform!?!?! Bonneville- Catalina -Lemans -Trans Am -Firebird- Grand Am REST IN PEACE or resurrect & become Great again….
What can we do?
Jason Emmett,
There is nothing wrong with watching name plates disappear… but when there is nothing to compete and fill the place of old name plates….. then what. The G6 should compete with the Mazda Speed 3 but it doesn’t.
Unlike AJ’s comments I think the G6 needs some interior work and a turbo engine. It probably could be close to on par with a Mazda then… though Mazda put some serious efforts into the 3 Speed….
I can’t say though that I’d ever want the old names back….Just build a good car and don’t worry so much about the name.
Pontiac should be pushing performance fuel economy… you know a G6 with 300 HP and 32 MPG…
“I can’t say though that I’d ever want the old names back….Just build a good car and don’t worry so much about the name.”
You know what?
If it’s good enough for BMW to have a 1-series, 3-series, 5-series, and 7-series with the model number giving details about engine size i.e. Model 316, 325, 525i, 735, etc. it’s plenty good enough for Pontiac.
There is nothing wrong with Pontiac using G3, G6, G8, etc. instead of names. (Except for the G3 of course, which shouldn’t even exist.)
It seems there are a lot of comments made about going back to your roots (Pontiac) so do it.
The rebrith of the Ford Mustang perfect. The Dodge Challenger not so perfect, to boxy. Done right, the 1966 Pontiac GTO would be the bomb, the retro cars must look like the original, not just close.
With the right brains working together you can make it happen.
Susan,
I appriciate the fact that you say such great words about Pontiac. However, to be perfectly honest, it is almost embarassing that there seems to be a huge disconnect between what you say about Pontiac and reality about the brand. There are many responses here, so I will keep this brief.
First, I find your note that Pontiac is alive and kicking & a part of GM’s future plans to either be downright misleading, or displays a unnerving disconect with what is actually happening around Pontiac based on what has actually been stated in GM’s restructuring plans which include taking the long and proud history of Pontiac, along with it’s full line of vehicles and Pontiac’s place 2nd largest General Motors car division and “reducing it to a niche brand of 2 or 3 vehicles to be sold in Buick-GMC showrooms”. This comes from GM’s own plans for restructuring. Again, there seems to be a severe disconnect between what you say and what GM is planing to do.
The other item is your statement that the top reason people buy Pontiac is fuel economy. To be frank, this is also something I find extremely disturbing. Perhaps this is the spin that you or those above you wish to promote, but if fuel economy was anyone’s number one concern, no offence, but Pontiac wouldn’t be the 1st thought or 1st dozen thoughts of the carbuying public. This type of (again) delusion is what has turned Pontiac into a damaged brand. The G3…a Chevrolet Aveo with a Pontiac grille… is a clear example of a division that, with all due respect, is seemingly being run by individuals that have no focus (or more bluntly, no clue) of what Pontiac really is.
Bob Lutz was brought in from outside GM, and in an interview within a year of his arrival, yet he grasped what Pontiac was all about. It’s about EXCITEMENT! If someone was overly concerned about fuel economy, they’d buy a Chevrolet or Saturn before they’d even think of Pontiac and Fuel economy in the same sentence.
Don’t think for a moment, I am saying that Pontiac is all about gas drinking vehicles. Everyone has cars that get good fuel economy nowadays. But Pontiac is the division that made the GTO (both the original and the even more remarkable recent version). This is the division that carried (and foolishly dumped) historic names that had alot of equity and public recognition like Bonneville, Grand Prix. This is the division that had had a Grand Am that got good mileage (along with it’s other GM chassis-mates), but combined that mileage with visual excitement that made Grand Am the best selling car at GM for quite a streach. Even today, while just about everything General Motors makes has dropped 30, 40, or (in the case of the Pontiac G6) 80%…. yet it’s the full sized, hood scooped, BMW-level handling, V6 standard-V8 optional, Pontiac G8 whose sales haven’t just remained steady, BUT JUST HAD IT’S BEST SALES MONTH YET!
There are a few other minor issues I have with your post beyond the misleading rosy view about Pontiac’s future and the seemingly cluelessness of what Pontiac actually represents, historically is, and why people buy a Pontiac over a Chevrolet or even a Ford. But these 2 issues simply jump out and from where I’m sitting rings crystal clear as to why Pontiac today is a weak brand, with a future as a niche nameplate in a showroom of Buick….. a car division that combined was outsold by the Grand Am ALONE!!
I wondered what kind of leadership would let a division that has a strong history, a wide range of models, and a sales volume that puts it second only to Chevrolet in car sales volume becaome an afterthought in a Buick showroom… a nameplate that has very little following whatsoever outside of the rustbelt and with much older individuals.
I now think we all have our answer.
Respectfully
G. McCoy
Come on guys?!?!?Whats in a name??? Recognition, heritage,loyalty thats what. Marketing too. Why don’t you hire Jim Wangers ? Too old for you?He’d put Pontiac back in the line up
Marty G8
oh I mean Marty Covais
I’ve owned Pontiacs from the Sunfire, 6000STE, Montana to the Torrent, I still think the Torrent is one of the best looking Suvs on the road, and each one I had was better than the last. The only period of Pontiacs lifespan I didn’t like is when they went to the excessive side cladding The interiors always got slammed by the automotive press,and many times they were right. I want to stay with the brand, but unless I can swing a G8,I will move on. Good Luck
Sorry randy but by far the Torrent is a relic of the past, built off a similar platform as the trailblazer which is being killed. the door handles of the vehicles harken back to the late 1990s and all that was done to differentiate it from chevy was put the out of place looking grille for pontiac on the front of it.
SUVs do not fit in the Pontiac line up and isnt what the brand was known for up until the 1990s when GM shoved SUVs down every single brands pipeline. that is when this huge identity crisis for the brands began to occur and GM still doesnt get the core pontiac driver which can be seen through products like the Pontiac Vibe or the hideous G3 built off the cheesy looking aveo platform.
I really understand why people are suggesting to kill entire brands because GM is drastically destroying each brands loyal following, producing vehicles that are haphazard and recreating what the brands stand for, all the while alienating their loyal following of can enthusiasts who expect pontiac to be a performance brand.
The plan for pontiac must be rethought, the company is not clearly thinking and is obviously just throwing advertising and product out there to see what sticks or works. the corporation is now saying the main reason to buy Pontiac is fuel economy, no thats why people buy Honda and Toyota, time to rethink your strategy? Pontiac is Car what a genious slogan, hope you paid an Ad agency a ton of money for that GEM!!! good luck.
Quote from Susan: “I also agree that Pontiac lost its way in the ’80s and ’90s”
During the 1980’s, Pontiac had its wildly successful “We Build Excitement” ad campaign. (And excitement was what they built) Sales went from just over 500,000 units in 1984 to over 800,000 units in 1989). This span saw great cars such as the 1988 Fiero GT and 1989 Turbo Trans Am. Someone in your position should know the brand’s history. The We Build Excitement campaign work would again today with the right product mix and model names. The “Pontiac is car” campaign isnt paying the bills.
Susan,
Not to pile on, but Pontiac has been lost in the wilderness ever since Ronnie and the Daytonas and the Beach Boys sang “Little GTO,” and Burt Reynolds drove a special edition 1977 black and gold Trans Am in “Smokey and the Bandit.”
You should check with Ronnie and the Daytonas and Burt Reynolds and ask what they think of that silly “Pontiac is Car” marketing scheme.
G. McCoy,
I agree with what you said, I however don’t agree on the naming issue of Pontiacs. And I certainly don’t think the G8 is that great. It is however reminiscent of what I would expect from a modern Pontiac. The G6 if it had an interior more similar to the G8 would be a good second…and things go downhill from there.
The truth though is the market has changed. Those wanting performance often times want comfort and luxury. Pontiac’s performance only mentality will not work in the upcoming years. You seem to neglect that. This is especially true when other GMs offer the same or better power/price/comfort levels.
The years of the Grand Am like sales are probably gone. Time to wake up to a new way of selling cars where customers demand more then just performance.
Why should Pontiac exist when so many buyers are looking for Performance, Luxury, Comfort and high tech? What makes a Pontiac any better then a Chevy with a large engine?
The fact is the upper limits on vehicle handling are around 1.0G, the limits on acceleration are a function of HP and engine size… this puts an average car that an average buyer wants to the .85 to .95g range. And the Acceleration to what… 0-60 in 4.5 to 5 second mark?
Today there are a whole slew of cars that can do that including some Chevy models, probably the upcoming Buick LaCrosse will get close to the 6 second mark… The CTS is no doubt right there in the range as well…. so where is there room for performance? What is it that Pontiac can do that other cars can’t?
It all boils down to MPG*HP/Pound and styling at this point.
Can you please outline what you would do to a G6 or G8 to make it more pontiac? I can probably tell you what I’d do….
Alex D.
Its not just the brands and the loyalty it is the overall car package thats changed and been messed up by GM. People are buying cars differently now then in the past.
SUVs in GM’s lineup hasn’t helped no doubt about that. But also trying to overlap brands and offering fewer options doesn’t work either. And that is what it appears GM’s strategy has been.
I don’t see why GM needs Pontiac… it is an extra product line who’s appeal can be easily put into other brands like Buick and Opel. I think in this case people are hanging on to the name to much.
If Pontiacs are to stay around… they have to be about performance value… think Mazda 3 speed…
Think turbo engines both (small) V6 and I4 that get great mileage but also have high HP. The interiors of the cars must appear to have some quality and hold up long enough that buyers want another Pontiac. Transmissions can’t be mushy they have to be firm, sporty shifting and there needs to be Manual Transmissions. Some buyers will want electronics options like blue tooth and Nav and iPod connectivity… that needs to be there better then before. Other users will want AWD for the fun of winter or wet weather driving…
The formula doesn’t seem tough but on the same hand Buick could build such a car and even Cadillac can build a smaller car….
As to the Add slogan… I think they forgot ‘a’ in the statement… it would then be true and make sense… Pontiac is a car!!….. ok now what?
I liked the old wider is better commercials and the old Pontiac, Driving Excitement… that captures the brand…
My Pontiac (that I currently own) is still exciting and its a 1987 model year…. with only 140 HP it is a fun car… but now times are different…. people want more…
Pontiac lost its way more in the 90s than anything. and yet they expect pontiac to have some stellar sales reports when theyve destroyed their product portfolio, they take one bland car the G6 and make three different variations of it, with the convertible priced extremely high and lacking major performance features Pontiac is known for.
GM has tried to make Pontiac a “vanilla” brand with sedans and cheesy g5 entry level car and it can be seen that as a strategy that really isnt working. then they kill the G8 ST that they had already invested time and money into to bring to america. this type of product is what I believe Pontiac needed. it was a product that would get buyers to take a second look at Pontiac. further it would be the only truck built on a car based platform in american. GM could have further made the product relevant by including a Chevrolet El Camino as a cousin to this product.
Of course brands will die and sales will suffer when you dont produce good products, or eliminate good vehicles from the line up.
Pontiac needs a Firebird or Trans Am built off the Camaro Platform so it can regain some of its performance credentials. I would suggest importing some of the more sportier cars from GMs holden subsidiary as a way of reinventing the company and making it relevant again with little to no investment other than to rebadge the austrailian versions of sports cars.
There are too many points where GM management has been and will continue to be incorrect about the vision and purpose of their company and brands, so i wont waste my time talking about it. but from the outside you can definately see a bunch of people running around with no clue as to what is going on trying to save their business, while killing it simultaneously…
I agree with gtjeff’s last post…
I would’nt say Pontiac lost it’s way in the 80’s & 90’s…. I’d say it lost it early on this decade.
Combine the quality and styling principels that Pontiac is known for and we could have out brand back very easily. Like it or not, it was the cladding and “Take Chances” styling that helped sell Pontiac…
Alex,
While I agree that Pontiac has lost a good portion of its brand identity over the last decade, and the only car they have right now that really supports what most people associate with Pontiac is the G8, I think you have to look at the overall business case for bringing a vehicle into the lineup. I’m not privy to the specifics of why the G8 ST was killed, but I actually believe this was one of the better decisions made by management lately in regards to a vehicle program, as I suspect (and have heard) the business case was underwater by quite a bit. You have to remember that the decision was made well before fuel prices came back down, and transporting only a few thousand vehicles across the pacific costs quite a bit per vehicle. I would guess that GM doesn’t really make much money on the G8 when you take into account the transportation costs from Australia to the US, incremental engineering and investment (for LHD vs. RHD). The notion that there isn’t any incremental cost for investment and engineering is completely false. Volume has completely dropped off a cliff for most vehicle lines, which just raises the cost per vehicle, causing the company to lose more money on every vehicle they produce.
I too would love to see a Trans Am or something similar come from the Camaro platform, which could also be built in Oshawa with the Camaro or in another US plant. It might happen, but I wouldn’t count on it for a while, until the economy and company start turning around.
It may appear that no one inside the company knows what is going on or how to make things work, and while some decisions may look bad on the outside, there are usually good reasons behind them.
FIrst off, Alex
The Torrent is not based off of the Trailblazer. It is on the Theta platform which it shares with the Chevy Equinox. And the Theta platform is not that old. The Torrent is not a SUV per say, its a car based crossover. I think there should be room in the Pontiac lineup for a sports crossover, look at Mazda, Acura. The Torrent in GXP trim had excellent styling and is one of the better looking and performing crossovers on the market. But the Torrent didn’t sell, but the uglier Equinox has no problem selling 80K -100K per year, that tells me Pontiac has some marketing/promotional issues. I think the Torrent should have continued in GXP trim only.
This blog is really interesting, and I agree with G. Mcoys post, it pretty much hits the nail on the head.
Back in 2004 when the GXP performance series was announced I was really excited at what Pontiac could have offered, but then was disappointed. The Bonneville GXP got the 275hp Northstar instead of the 300hp version. At the same time most V6 sports sedan were at 275+hp. The Grand Prix GXP was a much better effort, but the car was saddled with an HD version of the same 4-speed auto that was found to be problematic in other less powerful W-bodies, meanwhile other sports sedans offered 5 or 6-speed autos. I could go on and on, but other than the G6 GXP, later GXP offerings were executed a lot better. Maybe the Solstice GXP and G8 GXP can finally bring some respect to the series. But it may be too little too late.
As far as the rest of the line up, I agree there should be no G3. Why not a G5 GXP? I know money is tight at GM but the G6 refresh should have included an all new updated interior, to me that is the biggest drawback the G6 has. The G8 ST..I still can’t believe this was canceled so late,more money down the drain.The ST would have been great for Pontiac image, even though it would have been limited it would have helped Pontiacs performance image and would have gotten a lot better gas mileage than any truck.
GM put the excitement back into Pontiac.
So david M. for all that hype you basically just agreed with everything I said, minus the fact that the trailblazer and torrent seem to be built simialrly. the point that was attempted to be made was that Pontiac doesnt need SUVS in their lineup at all, they are packed in dealerships with midmarket luxury brand buick, and truck/crossover brand GMC. the torrent is hideous and a relic of the past, i completely stand by that comment 100% and it will continue to be a drag on GM as a new wave of redesigned crossovers hit the market to really make that vehicle look like dinosaur.
People dont go to Pontiac for an SUV its just not what their brand is known for. they are a sport/hip brand up until recently. A torrent as a GXP? that would not even save that vehicle, your idea is to take an SUV that already gets absimal gas mileage and make it even worse. no one is purchasing an SUV for sport performance, I can tell your not a car-guy.
GM is relegating Pontiac to a niche brand, that niche must be sport performance with sexy sedans,coupes, and possibly a convertible. they must stick to what they know.
additionally I think much success can be had by the combining of Buick-GMC-Pontiac into one dealer channel,distribution network, management, and advertising. together they have decent market share that is poised to grow once more relevant products are introduced/updated. GM has already said it is killing the Torrent which is a SMART MOVE since the development costs and high gas prices that are headed our way in the future wont warrant the major investment, so theres no reason to fight for it. everyone who loves that ugly out of place SUV should go buy one before their gone.
Alex D,
I don’t think the G6 is plain… it is just a different kind of style. When given the choice between what you consider plain and something like other chevy modles I’d take the G6… I’m a fan of the sleek BMW like styling… to bad the G6 didn’t have a bit better drive train and transmission and a decent interior….It wouldn’t be so bad then….
I can’t say we need more Firebirds or Trans Ams…..
Wow…simply wow.
The fact that Pontiac was one of the hardest brands to screw up. I mean all you had to do is take a Chevy and make it more expressive and maybe if your generous add some power. When people buy a Pontiac..all they want a more expressive car than you would get from Chevy or Buick. Something that says “I care what I drive”…and maybe has a little more power. It is not harder than taking a Chevy truck and putting some bling in it to make it “professional grade”.
Now that Grand Prix is dead..do you think those customers are buying Impalas? No…they are are buying Mazda 6’s, Altima’s, and Maxima’s. And as much as you guys might be hoping…a Pontiac buyer is not buying any Buick.
The real truth you should be saying is that Pontiac at one point was a cash cow. But rather than investing the money in new Pontiac’s..we took the money and spent it on full size trucks. Then when we did not have the money to replace Pontiac’s models as they got old, we cancelled them. Now Pontiac has a brand is in a minidepression from mismanagement and lack fo focused product…so it is easier to just give up.
Nate,
If you go to autoblog and read about the trademark problem Honda is having with the RL nameplate you will see that the letter designations are too confusing. People have enough trouble with LS, LT, LTZ let alone the model name start with letters or numbers.
The G6 was a vehicle with its cousins the convertible, and coupe was a fastly assembled product back in 2005/2006 to help save what was already eroding sales and profits of that division. of course we need a firebird or trans am, thats where the entire loyalty of the entire brand comes from. Cars like the GTO,Trans-Am,Firebird launched multiple generations of enthusiasts,collectors, and pontiac fans.
My suggestion wasnt for a gas guzzling version of those cars, but maybe an opportunity to define the future of the sports car and reinvent it. You already have the Camaro platform, might as well use it to add a sporty vehicle to Pontiac which was GMs sport car brand. If the goal of the company is to make pontiac a “vanilla” toyota with bland styling and crossovers then there is no use for the brand. it must differentiate it.
Like ive said before you have the BEST of all worlds by combining those three brands with marketing,advertising, manufacturing, you have an”everything to everyone” brand channel that once someone walks through the door they are most likely going to purchase a product from one of the three brands. Buick while it should have 2 more models in their line up has been massively redesigned, and GMC is due shortly for a revamp of their line up.
Pontiac must return to their roots and what people know and love the brand for, or else their is no use for them. plain and simple.
Pontiac does not need the torrent crossover since Buick has the enclave and GMC has the acadia, it is redundant with nothing special to make you even want the car. I dont think the GXP version of the vehicle even saves it with the slumping SUV market in general. At the end of its lifecycle GM has already announced the Torrent will not be replaced, which is actually good news.
People can speculate or say they actually like the G6 or some other cars that should die at the end of their lifecycle, but take a look at how many of a particular car you see on the road and will see almost no G6 convertibles or coupes. I must admit I have seen a few sedans of the G6 but not many. If GM can consolidate and do a better job of advertising and showcasing those brands as a single channel, they can be successful. those brands actually currently command over 5% of the U.S. market combined and can further expand their market share by introducing relevant and stylish product. the G6.G5 and Torrent are not stylish,relevant, or reminiscant of the brand as it is known in the minds of car buyers, and that is why they have fallen upon hard times.
Firebird,Trans Am, GTO could be successful if developed with fuel efficient engines or introduced with Hybrid varients to get better performance from the engines while improving their gas mileage as well. no one should suggest writing off or killing the heritage and vehicles that allowed GM to retain and ehance their market share in the 1960’s and 1970s, obviously as a corporation you should look towards your highest point as an inspiration for the future. there are still plenty of people including young individuals who werent around for the heydey of those muscle cars that know,love, and want some variants of those vehicles back, so it is my belief it would do the company well to fill that need, return Pontiac to their roots, ax the horrible new ad slogan and get the ball moving again.
Pontiac was attempted to be turned into a full-line automotive retailer, something it is not. by relegating the brand to a niche brand of sports cars they are actually just returning the brand to its real purpose, and it should have been done a while ago. the G3 could be a decent seller due to its fuel efficiency but it overall isnt a product that belonged at Pontiac, neither is the Vibe and when you take all those vehicles together and see they dont match the company, their style, or their legacy, it is easy to see why sales are suffering and why the brand is tarnished. One bright spot is the new g8 that harkens back to the muscle heydey people miss from Pontiac, more stylish and relevant sedans and coupes like that and the company will definately be on target to grow market share, and re-establish their brand.
regardless of other thoughts or opinions about certain cars, they need to differentiate and better associate with their core buyer/enthusiast and they have not done that in a while.
Ms. Docherty,
I have a few comments regarding the future of Pontiac. You state that fuel economy is what motivates people to buy Pontiacs. I don’t believe this to be true. My first car was a Sunbird. I did not buy it because it was fuel efficient. I bought it because it was sporty and fun to drive. My second car is a Grand Am GT Coupe. I bought it because it was sporty and fun to drive. My next car hopefully will be a G6 GT Coupe because it is sporty and fun to drive. Do you see where I’m going with this? Cars like the G3 do not belong in the Pontiac lineup. Doesn’t anyone over there understand brand identity? Chevrolet has the mass transportation market and fuel economy crowd all to itself. Pontiac should be the performance brand. Cadillac should be the luxury brand and GMC should focus on trucks, SUVs, and vans. Simple. There are your four brands. Since Saturn is being killed off, how about moving some of those vehicles into the Pontiac lineup? They would make a great fit and I’m sure the Pontiac dealers would embrace them. In particular, if you must have an entry level Pontiac, the next generation Astra from Opel would make a fine replacement for the G5. The G6 needs to be redone and based on the new Insignia. The G8 is fine as it is but more advertising needs to be done so that people know about this fantastic car. If/when there is money, how about a nice coupe and convertible based on the Camaro chasis? The Camaro has the retro crowd sewn up. How about something sleek, modern, and futuristic for us Pontiac fans?
I wish you the best of luck in keeping Pontiac alive. You must realize that if Pontiac goes or is taken in a direction that is not acceptable to Pontiac fans, they will not naturally move over to Chevrolet products. It is likely they will go to import brands instead.
Nick
The Firebird must return for Pontiac to be healthy again. With no image car in the lineup, there is no point. Its like an army with no general. A new modern Firebird must come back in order to throw Pontiac back into the spot light. It carried the brand for decades. A Solistice, G8, Firebird lineup would be serious business. There are so many people clamoring for a Firebird rebirth it would be foolish to pass it up.
John,
I have no problem with those designations nor do I have a problem with the G series from Pontiac, the G series from infiniti, the Lexus series, and BMWs number series… same goes with Audi’s A and S series (I think these are the best of them).
Saying that a two or three letter name is any more confusing then say a full name is nonsense. If someone can remember the relation between Cobalt and Impala and Corvette then certainly RX, RL, TL etc… aren’t a big deal. Either way the customer has to remember the relation between them whether it is an actual word name or a letter designation.
Any name with a letter and number is much further ahead then conventional names. Audi, Pontiac, Lexus, Infiniti and BMW all have this figured out. I can tell that an A1, A3, A4,A5,A6,A8 are all different and can gauge the relation between them….I can’t say that for names of cars… especially if I pretend I’m not a gear head who reads every magazine out there….. Either way I’d have to research and do some learning… which perhaps is the whole problem. Perhaps consumers aren’t willing to do the research before they buy… but I would hope they do considering the cost of vehicles.
I agree that Pontiac should make the Firebird. The direction should be like the Firebird Bandit:
This linked Trans Am rendition is interesting:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84132
The Firebird bandit would really energize the youth market for Pontiac.
Pontiac should drop the G5 (let Cobalt have that segement) and add the G6 Sport Truck with a Ecotec twin turbo. (Yes, I said gee six sport truck). You heard it hear first. The G6 is Pontiac’s mainstay. A G6 sport truck would be more affordable and energize the youth market. This would give Pontiac a chane to create a hot new trend. Add the G8 sport truck if possible.
Pontiac should make a debut on shows like Smallville.
Pontiac should take a new grille direction using a grille like the 76-77 Grand Prix grille that came up over the hood. It’s one of Pontiac’s best looks.
What next for the G8? The G8 Pontiac should use a grille similar to the 77 Grand Prix grille (vertical up over the hood) and use headlight cues from the Lamborghini Murcielago.
Celebrities that target the 35-45 y/o target audience would be great for GM ads (eg. Matthew Mcconaughey). GM needs to generate more ‘have you seen’ and ‘have you heard’ commercials.
Also,
It would be better for Pontiac to build a new Bonneville J8, than for Chevy to make a new Impala.
http://www.michaelsabatini.com/A_Pontiac_Page.html
A Bonneville with high end add ons would bring more profit. The Bonneville could be a practical sedan for Pontiac that would dominate the segment.
———–
B-P-G dealers
G8 GT sport sedan (new grille 77 Grand Prix/ new headlight similar to Murcielargo).
Bonneville J8 Zeta (luxury updated classic – narrow full length tail light like the Sabatini J8 concept). Base V-6, available 5.3 V-8 with active fuel management for GM base enthusiast. This car replaces the Lucerne for B-P-G dealers. Transition to a modern classic GTO 66-67 with available LS V-8 to replace the Pontiac G8.
(Bonneville/GTO new grille 77 Grand Prix/ new headlight similar to Murcielargo), replaces G8.
Pontiac G6 sedan, coupe, and sport truck. Name changes to Lemans.
Firebird Bandit
Solstice
Astra (from Saturn)
Buick LaCrosse
New Riviera 66-67 look full size Zeta (Sabatini concept tail lights). This model could offer both a sedan and coupe and be Buick’s flagship replacing the Lucerne.
Buick wagon (SRX)
Keep GMC Acadia and give Enclave to Cadillac.
—————————-
Cadillac adds new entry level alpha based coupe/sedan for youth market to target Lexus IS and BMW 135i.
Keep CTS.
Drop SRX (give to Buick as a wagon).
Add new Zeta STS sedan with a new look and more trunk.
—————————–
Chevy cars:
Malibu
Caprice (base version of the Bonneville)
Camaro
Stinger (Saturn Sky)
Cobalt.
The Riviera Beijing Concept should be used for
1. Cadillac entry level Alpha coupe
2. Pontiac Grand Prix
3. Buick Regal.
Susan,
The dark lens appearance on the G8 should be an option. The dark lens look with black doesn’t have universal appeal to the luxury sport sedan buyer in this bracket.
I really hope GM makes it with Pontiac division. I know that our country is truly capable of building good cars that can compete anywhere, but for last 25 years the big 3 and the dealerships seem to have neglected the basics and not always kept consumers in mind. Although, things seem to be turning around.
I have never bought a Pontiac before, but am really excited about the G8 like no other car before. It is big, beautiful, powerful.
I get the feeling that G8 is an improved GM car compared to their offerings over at least last 10 years in terms of design but am not still sold on reliability. I have not visited dealership (yet) for the fear that if I go there, I will walk out with one.
To Aric Vonasek:
What type of changes did you make to your G8 GT to get better mileage and improved horsepower? thanks
Hello Susan,
I cannot help but to agree whole heartedly with what Jason Emmett said above. I recently purchased a new G8 GT. I am in sales… I put on over 1K a week in mileage. the reason I bought the car was because it offered what I wanted from GM for A VERY LONG TIME! I bought it because it was a V8, RWD car that looked phenominal! the car screams class envy and people still to this day give me second looks when I drive down the road. Now, to help you with your argument I will say that the G8 GT does get great mileage for a car putting out 360 hp! and with the modifications I’ve made to it I have a 400hp car putting down 28/29 mpg on the hwy! NOW THAT’S COOL!
The G8 Sport Truck is lamented.
What America needs is a vehicle with a 6,001 lb. max gross vehicle weight rating that is fun to drive. I don’t want a Suburban, Range Rover, or pickup truck. The Omega Ute comes very close to this. With a little bit of optimizing for the US market, it could work. My little company would love to buy a V8 six speed vehicle with a max GVWR of over 6,000 lbs. that is not only fun, quick, and agile for commuting to the office but that can also carry the occasional couch, snowthrower, or building supplies. With cylinder deactivation, light hybrid (or full on), and some other tricks, the gas mileage unladen should be quite good. It might even tow my mid-size trailer.
So was this lady just lying or did she have no idea that a month later her words would be completely wrong?!!! Pontiac is over.
The News states Pontiac is being thrown under the bus. What a waste, the great division of Pontiac gone. GM Must gets it house in order and pay back the govt loans or else in 12 months there will only be Chevrolet as per the govts auto czar. Shame, the shame.
What is going on with Pontiac ? Heard today that GM is going to Close Pontiac!! What are they thinking Pontiac Sells more cars than Buick and Cadillac. They should end Chevy Trucks and just have GMC Trucks that would make sense.
Announced today… Pontiac will be phased out.
GM – Why lie to your buying public?
GM should have cut Buick (desolved it into the Cadillac brand)… and desolved Saturn into Pontiac & Cadillac. Sell Saab to a European company. And Sell Hummer off to be an independent company.
I have lost TOTAL faith in GM. I have always owned GM (Buick, Pontiac) brands… except for a Pre-Chrysler Jeep.
Now I never plan to buy a GM… unless it is a used Pontiac from a non-GM affiliated dealer or off the street.
GM has lost my $. Nice job GM. In a way to save and make money… GM has just lost a big chunk of their income.
With the announcement of the phasing out of the Pontiac brand today, GM has has lost a lifetime Pontiac owner. None of the other brands GM produces are worth buying. Pontiac always had the performance and styling the other brands never had. GM should have phase out Buick. I will never buy a new GM vehicle again. This is what happens when the government gets involve with a private company. It will be just a manner time, but I believe GM will eventually die.
Long live Pontiac.
without Pontiac GM is dead
Any body at GM that would trim Pontiac instead of redundant GMC doesn’t have their heads srewed on right.
If Pontiac is gone so must GM go too. I will NEVER EVER buy & do my best to make sure no oneI know ,EVER EVER buys a GM car, if its the last thing I do!!!
GM possibly pared down to Chevy, Cadillac, Buick and GMC? Saturn, Saab, Hummer for sale, ok. Pontiac cancelled? Way to go! Once again short-sightedness and a craving for a quick buck has steered GM in a misguided direction. Sure, Buick and GMC are decent cash cows for now, but happens to a truck division like GMC when gas prices go up again? Plus, 2 truck divisions? C’mon! And gas prices will go up again. What happens to Buick, that already sells nowhere near the amount of Pontiacs in the U.S., when the Chinese realize they can get more highly regarded luxury cars once their current booming economy affords it to them OR they go ahead and make a cheaper copy of a Buick that GM can’t do anything about? What happens is GM is stuck with two more dying divisions!
What is stupid is Mazda has basically gone the direction Pontiac should have taken. “We Build Excitement” has given way to “Zoom-Zoom”. Well-built, practical, efficient and sporty variants of GM’s many current platforms could have easily been turned into good Pontiacs. There already were some like the G6, G8 and Solstice….success with those cars through good marketing would have easily lead to a possible return of the Firebird or GTO. But some fool had the bright idea to just rebadge an Equinox, Cobalt and Aveo and call them Pontiacs as well….pathetic. Lutz leaves and the place falls apart at the seams. Pray to Lord Obama that the Volt is successful. GM, please follow Chrysler and quit mooching off the public and file for bankruptcy!
I am in the process of buying a 2006 Pontiac G6 that I absolutely fell in love with. I love everything about it including the interior which seems to getting beat on. Anyway, I am just concerned that now with Pontiac no longer being made, is it even a wise decision to purchase this gorgeous car?
What GM should really be doing is stop making the copy-cats and merge some of the brands together, I mean if there is no-more copy-cats, GM can make more cars and make them cheaper, and all the empolyees can still have their jobs, also with less confusion to tell weather or not to badge all the same cars differently, like the Chevy trucks being copy-cats to the GMC ones and all the Opels and Vaxhauls being Chevy car copy-cats, then there will be a lot less recalls and higher comsumer trust, then we would have less imports in America
An idea that several of my friends have been discussing today is about a way to help GM. Is there a way that Chrysler and GM could merge into one powerful American Company and keep some of our business here? I think it is great others want to bail us out, but we know it is for profits only. So I feel it is time that WE step up to the plate and bail ourselves out. We have done it before it is time to do it again. Also there are many rich American business men that could and should unite to make this happen for a strong America. I think some of us have forgotten how we became Americans. It wasn’t on depending on others, we stood up and fought to become independent. That time has come again….
Michelle
Please don’t kill Pontiac!
It’s so sad to see how GM’s own vision for their company was forced to change by the orders of a government committee.
Reading this post in hindsight makes me feel sick.
The only saving grace is that the brand is still retained by GM, hopefully New GM will be able to do the right thing when it goes back to being a publicly-traded company.
The Muscle Car RETURNS, Trans Am; Pontiac “Tip Of The Spear”
bring back the GTO and FIREBIRD!!!!!!!!!!!! Thats about all i have to say. i mean c’mon pontiac;someones got to show up all these camaros and challengers you see riding around.