Tough But Necessary Steps to Restructure GM
By Fritz Henderson
GM President and CEO
Four weeks ago, President Obama announced that GM’s overall restructuring plan did not go far enough to warrant substantial new support from the U.S. government. Tough medicine, given the progress and painful cuts we’d made up to that point. But the message was clear: we simply must go faster and deeper to restructure GM – out of court if possible, in court if necessary – and that’s exactly what we’re doing.
Today, we’re announcing a number of tough but necessary actions to ramp up our U.S. turnaround efforts in four focus areas:
Deeper, faster execution: First, we’re accelerating our U.S. brand and nameplate rationalizations, dealer consolidation, plant closings, and hourly employee and labor-cost reductions. We also expect to implement additional salaried employee and executive reductions.
Sustainable Results: The actions we’re announcing today position us for sustainable success by establishing stronger brands, fewer nameplates, and a world-class dealer network. They will also allow us to significantly increase our North American structural-cost reduction and dramatically reduce our U.S. breakeven volume, enabling the company to be profitable at today’s very low industry-sales volumes.
Healthy Balance Sheet: We’re also announcing today a number of key initiatives to restructure GM’s balance sheet, including a bond exchange aimed at reducing our unsecured debt by at least $24 billion, a goal of exchanging at least half of our VEBA obligations (about $10 billion) to GM common stock, and a request of the U.S. Treasury to convert at least half of GM’s government debt to GM common stock.
Technology: Finally, despite the challenging business conditions, we’re keeping development of our mainstream alternative technology vehicles on track, including the much-anticipated Chevrolet Volt.
The actions we’re announcing today are difficult but necessary, and they affect every single person associated with our company. I want to thank everyone who is working with us to make GM a more customer-focused, leaner, cost-competitive company.
Make no mistake, this is not just about sacrifice, this is about putting GM on a path to win. The reinvented GM will unleash our talented work force to work within a cost structure unrivaled in the industry. Our product line will be offered within sharply focused brands that lead in design, technology, quality and fuel efficiency. Our dealer organization will be resized to compete in today’s world with a volume and profitability to provide a great customer experience. Our world-class supplier lineup will be capable of providing leading-edge innovation and quality. Our balance sheet will give us the stability and flexibility to move quickly on new products, technologies and marketplace initiatives. And at the same time, we’ll listen and respond to the people who matter most – our customers.
Today’s announcements continue the reinvention of GM. I have every confidence that we will achieve our goal.
Editor’s Note: Originally we had live video footage here but the player has since been taken down as the presentation wasn’t archived.
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This is truly the “Day the Music Died”. Elimination of Pontiac in its entirity is a true indication that DC is calling all the shots and pulling all the strings. The demise of Pontiac is uncalled for. If not for selling Buicks in China, if those had been marketed by Pontiac or even Chevy today’s announcent would certainly be different.
Now, since GMC is going to continue (despite being mostly nothing more than rebranded Chevys) how about a GMC G8?
There will be some who do not like these comments but the steps announced are going to greatly reinvigorate GM and allow them to undergo the type of transformation that Ford currently is undergoing.
This plan is extremely smart and instead of having pontiac as either a loss making or small profit niche brand, the resources of the company can be focused on their high volume sales brands and channels. their dealership footprint is shrinking further to its right size instead of the companies desired size.
Overall I would just say that the asset sales of brands as well as closures of brands must speed up so that the company can focus on reinvigorating their core and returning to solid profitability.
Of course pontiac and the glory days of pontiac will be sorely missed, but the business case for keeping the mismanaged brand was fading away.
while many people thought GMC should go, this brand has a full line up of trucks/crossovers and commands DOUBLE the u.s. marketshare of Pontiac. the numbers last stood at about 2.5% marketshare for GMC while it was about 1.3% marketshare for pontiac.
I believe in the future GM might consider that the GMC brand has outlived its usefulness. but combined the Buick line and GMC line command nearly 5% of the total U.S. automarket, and if GM gives Buick some pontiac flair of sporty-luxury we could see an even stronger brand and more focused sales channel that will more than make up the loss of this historic brand.
The steps being announced are tough but neccesary and the focus on four core brands will serve the company well into the future. the truth was they can not afford to pay for 12 brands with advertising,product,logistical support, it just doesnt make sense in todays environment, so tough decisions must be made. I am proud of the fact that they were able to make these tough decisions and hopefully avoid bankruptcy. great luck GM!!
The G8 is great styled vehicle and turns heads when on the road. Why not convert the G8 to the next generation Impala and bring back rear wheel drive to Impala.
Even without the Pontiac brand, please keep the Vibe alive. It is one of the best-built, most practical — though neglected — cars you now build. (I’ve wondered, have you neglected to market Vibe aggressively because of it’s Toyota lineage?)
If necessary, move the Vibe to Chevrolet, and let those dealers sell and service it. Marketed correctly, it could be a big seller and success.
Questions for Fritz not posed during teleconference:
1. You stated quite frankly that th emarketing muslcle wasn’t there to push Pntiac forward. Where are you planning on coming up with the marketing resources and revenue to push frward Cadillac and Buick from what, compared to Pontiac in North America, has to be viewed as certainly lackluster. (from GM’s own reports, in North America Pontiac outsold Buick and Cadillac combined in both 2007 and 2008 calendar years by around 60,000 units each year)
2. Will any traditional car models be added to GMC brand that will enhance it into more than just a secondary line of rebadged Chevy trucks (Terrain notwithstanding)?
3. We know from your comments that the G8 production will be phased out and that it’s design will not be transferred to anyh other GMNA brand. Does this also portend the eminent demise of the just introduced Camaro?
4. GM’s current plan is to retain some portion of Opel/Vauxhall and not divest of its stake entirely. Is there some point down the road where we could see the re-introduction of Opel to the North American market?
5. It has been widely reported that over half of the members of the Auto Task Force either do not drive or do not drive American. Specifically involved, Timothy Geithner drives an Acura and Lawrence Summers a Mazda. Any comments on their “expertise” and just plain knowledge of what Detroit produces?
GM,
Good, but tough move. Hopefully GM will consider further revisions to their branding. After thinking about it I think GM would be well off reinventing itself with a new name to replace all existing names except Cadillac and Corvette. Just my opinion though.
chiefpontiac,
The writing has bee on the wall for a while. Sorry to say. I am disappointed to see Pontiac go. Maybe GM will replace it with a new line of sporty fun cars that will meet the needs of future Pontiac would have beens.
They can always bring Pontiac back.
Alex D.
Why not shift GMC products to Buick? They both have SUVs now with almost identical markets. GMCs are supposed to be nicer then Chevy and the Buicks are nicer still. Simply badge the GMC has a cheaper Buick (like the difference between a Caprice and Impala or a BMW # and an M).
Buick Trucks would fit in well considering GMCs stance on them… for that matter they could drop GMC altogether and not lose much…. Buick and Chevy already can probably pick up the slack.
As a last comment… how about that new brand.. with a fresh new revised image… a brand to better house the 3 Electric cars GM has? Yes get rid of Chevy, Buick, Pontiac and Saturn and replace them with one or two totally new, fresh invigorated brands.
I say dump Pontiac, GMC, Saturn, SAAB.
Keep Chevy, Buick, Cadillac.
That covers the market segments.
I would have said keep Pontiac over Buick, but if Buick is selling so much better…
While it’s a shame to see a nameplate die (Oldsmobile anyone?) let’s be realistic, massive price and segment overlap is pointless, confusing and unnecessary expense…
Would GM consider selling the Pontiac nameplate and the rights to the various Pontiac car names (Firebird, Bonneville, GTO, Catalina, etc…) so that a new independent Pontiac could be formed?
I still think that instead of completely axing Pontiac as a nameplate, that it should have been kept as a niche product nameplate, selling 50-100k profitable units per year instead of cloning Chevrolet and merely transferring sales from one nameplate to the other. (There is no reason to have the current G3 and G5.)
Why bother with the March 2nd blog post stating that Pontiac was alive and well? Obviously, killing Pontiac was still a viable option. This is frustrating to say the least. Maybe I’ll be able to pick up a cheap G8 GT near the end of the brand…. yeesh.
Mr. Henderson,
Now that you are in charge, when are you going to take action and get rid of that ridiculous name for the Chevy Cruze?
I would hope that GM would take this restructuring and the shutdown of the Pontiac division to seed Chevy and Buick with two products that deserve to be carried over: the G8 and the Solstice.
1. I think everyone expected that the Zeta platform would form the basis of the next-gen Impala, but now is the perfect time to do it. Keep shipping those Holdens over from Australia badged as Chevy Impalas. I’ve got to believe that this great car would be better received as an Impala, and would give every NASCAR fan an opportunity to finally get a Chevy with V8, stick shift and rear drive, just like Junior’s.
2. Rebrand the Solstice GXP as a Buick, perhaps even bringing the Wildcat badge back. The front end of the Solstice already looks like it was built for a waterfall grille. Doing so would give Buick a full lineup of attainable prestige vehicles, especially with the debut of ‘10 LaCrosse that everyone’s so rightfully ga-ga over.
Every division of GM is putting out some very good cars at the moment. GM can make use of this restructuring opportunity to mine the gems and bolster what remains.
From chiefpontiac: 3. We know from your comments that the G8 production will be phased out and that it’s design will not be transferred to anyh other GMNA brand. Does this also portend the eminent demise of the just introduced Camaro?
Absolutely not. The activities with Pontiac in no way affect the Camaro. They are now hitting dealerships.
Adam Denison
Chevrolet Communications
I think these moves are what is needed. The marketing and image of each brand needs to be laser targeted. Keeping GMC seems like more of the same old thinking. Ford and Toyota are full spectrum auto companies. Chevrolet could be this as well. In almost forty years of my awareness – I have never once thought of GMC as a higher quality vehicle or anything other that a rebranded Chevrolet. It is totally unnecessary. Please Kill GMC.
Pontiac has a flaw as a redneck brand here, even in more the urban centers of North Carolina where most aspiring professionals would be ashamed to be seen in one. Import cars are always more chosen by the professional / creative class. So really all GM cars loose out here. There really needs to be a turn around in quality, marketing, and design of all GM cars. Americans have too many better cars to choose from among the imports.
Are you kidding…Pontiac a redneck brand???? I live on New Yorks’ Long Island one of the wealthiest spots on the planet…(Hamptons?) I have a ‘09 G8 and you have to see heads turn on the LIE (Long Island Expressway) as I drive to work…get real…I Love my Pontiacs…started driving at 17 years old in a ‘67 Pontiac Catalina….great looking car…powerful…named ir Cloresse the Catalina…
GM – I really think you may have lost me forever today. And I busted my a*s defending you guys to my cynical Gen-X peers that were convinced America cant make great cars again.
For the love of GOD save the G8!!!!!!!!
I have to agree with some of the above posts; who inside GM marketing can not see that the G8 would make a great Chevy Impala. HELLO! Do you even know what you have? And moving the Solstice over to Buick makes sense as well. I also agree that the Vibe should be moved to Chevy it’s a great little car that you can get AWD and haul stuff in. No other vehicle in the GM line up is like it. So keep it. As for all the other redundant Pontiacs vehicles; they can go away cause you can find them as either a Chevy or GMC already.
And if GM has such great products coming out of Korea, Brazil, Europe, and Australia why not leverage those vehicles and bring them to the States. Honda makes a global Civic. Toyota makes a global Corrolla. Nissan makes a global Sentra. Hello this is not rocket science.
Anyway, good luck to GM in this restructuring process. Hope you make it.
I think GM need to fill the gap the G8 is leaving.
I feel strongly that the G8 in a Chevy dealership would sell very well… a four-door Camaro if you will.
(A competitor to the RWD Hyundai and Chrysler Sedans)
Keep in mind that even in the middle of all this crisis, Camaro has a 6-month waiting list and is selling hot.. It is NOT true that all people want economy cars.. people want choice and diversity.
Removing the G8 is removing choice and diversity – people will go elsewhere..if you keep up this mentality GM will shrink and eventually die.
Also – why has GM not responded to the Government’s concerns that the Volt is too expensive to be successful? Why is the Volt such a golden child??
GM has been mismanaging Pontiac for a long time now and it was just a matter of time. GM did nothing to bring life back into the brand when it is real simple on what needed to be done. For some reason Pontiac has always been squashed and had to take a back seat to Chevy. Who needs two luxury brands with Caddy and Buick. What’s the point with GMC truck. Where are the Trans Ams, GTO’s, Grand Am’s, Bonnevilles, Grand Prixs? Alphanumeric nameplates with advertisements aimed at BMW? No one compares Pontiacs and BMW’s. Now Obama is going to control what is being built! Good job GM. You guys who are running this thing suck. Bye, bye GM. Long live Pontiac!
—–>> Pontiac has a flaw as a redneck brand here, even in more the urban centers of North Carolina where most aspiring professionals would be ashamed to be seen in one.
Stan,
And exactly what is your problem with rednecks?
I find it interesting in this posting that its not even mentioned that you are shutting down an iconic brand, Pontiac. Pontiac was known for stylish, performance oriented vehicles until the brand was starved a few years ago.
GM=Generally Mediocre, proven again today. Only GM would cancel its third best selling brand. Your company turned its back on a large part of your customer base. GM will lose a lot of credibility having denied four seperate times Pontiac’s demise on its own Pontiac underground website.
I am sure companies that excel at brand management like Proctor and Gamble are shaking their heads in disbelief at how your company ran an icon like Pontiac into the ground due to sheer mismanagement.
Bob Lutz brought out the 2004 GTO and said it was not marketed at the previous GTO buyers, what a great way to alienate customers. Then the supposed “car guy” forgot about the car’s most important attribute-style. No one wanted an oversized cavalier even with 350-400 hp. The fact an icon like the GTO couldnt even have been built in the US shows how truck and SUV orientated your company had become.
Next, Lutz decides he is going to rename the Grand Am, claiming it is a damaged name. Of course, nothing was wrong with the name, it was GM’s second or third best selling car. What are G6 sales now? Only GM would cancel a two time JD Power initial quality award winner in 2007 and 2008, the Pontiac Grand Prix.
Who approved the loss leader solstice? Again, Lutz got what he wanted. What he failed to think about was all of the Pontiac buyers who already had a fiero and would have bought a new one. A coupe would have sustained much higher volumes than a convertible and its clone, the Sky.
Who approved spending billions on Saturn with its 450 dealers, Saab with 260 dealers, while starving Pontiac and its 3,000 dealers? A performance orientated Pontiac would be successful, you have a kappa platform that could produce 4-5 different models at a low cost. Of course, knowing how your company operates, you will shut the Wilmington plant down rather that see its strategic value in your turnaround. I think it is time for more of your management to resign.
Lets get a little bit real here. Pontiac hasn’t made a significant car in decades. While I admire some of the latest products like the Solstice and G8, the fact remains that they simply aren’t selling. I have seen a grand total of maybe 2 G8’s since they came out and only occasionally see a Solstice or its twin the Saturn sky. True- these are attractive cars. But a large volume producer like GM needs to sell in large volume. The Solstice would have been a perfect car for a niche brand. But these cars didn’t work out period, regardless of how good they were/are.
So yes, it makes me sad to see Pontiac go. Its like another small slice of Americana is slipping away.Even more sad is hearing that even more workers will lose their jobs as a result. But in the end with GM’s existence at stake, I agree with the decision to cut Pontiac.
If you look at what Toyota has done, they’ve built the bulk of their business off of only one brand-Toyota. They only have two different divisions; Lexus and Scion. Two totally different brands that were kept completely separate and marketed so totally differently that many Americans don’t realize the these three are all from the same company. Look at what they build too. None of their cars are what I would call… “stunning”. In fact, most of what they produce is kind of bland and utterly pedestrian with the exception of some of the upper end Lexus models. Toyota’s success comes from efficiency and careful marketing. As such, with GM slimming down its own brands, I can see how doing so could be a better benefit.
Either way, I wish all the GM employees the best of luck.
Bummer. I leased a 2003 Pontiac Grand Am, followed by a 2006 G6 GTP Coupe, and a 2009 G8. The Chevy lineup, with the exception of the unaffordable Corvette, has been solid boredom for years. Pontiac was the only division that built anything fun.
I am very displeased at the plans to ax the Pontiac line. I have been a loyal GM customer and bought
several GM cars in the last 20 years. The Oldsmobile Intrigue was a terrific car, but you decided to stop producing that model and the entire Oldsmobile line. You could have moved the Intrigue to the Buick line as an entry level car. You declined. I found the Pontiac G6 3 years ago and have enjoyed the car a lot. It is peppy, comfortable, well equiped and fun to drive. Your Chevy cars have had poor design for 20 years, the Cadillac is too expensive, and the Buick line is pricey for what you get. When I look for my next car in 2010, I will be looking elsewhere than GM. I hope that I can find an American car maker, possibly Ford or Jeep. I cannot understand the position of the unions in the light of the state of manufacturing in the US. Not to give some concessions to keep the company healthy is just irresponsible. Since the union along with the government will probably run GM in the future I do not intend to ever buy another GM car. Not one more dime for persons who do not appreciate the American consumer/public.
Until those of us in North America with decent paying jobs realize that buying an Asian or European automobile is contributing the the demise of the North America we used to know and love, we’ll all suffer the consequences. This isn’t unlike the impact that Wall-mart is having on small goods retailers and small towns. Sure I’d like to save 50 bucks on a barbeque, but it’s made entirely in China. Does your conscience bother you? The Wall-Mart attitude is all too prevalent. GM and Ford make excellent cars and trucks – world-class – here at home. When you spend your dollars at home, everyone at home benefits. I’d hate to see this sort of “buy at home thinking” legislated, but every consumer gets to make his or her own decisions, and these small decisions add up to create a huge impact on the communities in which we live. If one person buys “overseas” the impact at home isn’t huge, but when we all get Wall-marted, and we all start shopping overseas, the impact will become unsustainable. Brother can you spare a dime?
I’m left almost speechless!, Pontiac has been and always be my choice of cars, its always represented an upgrade version of base performance vehicles. Brand loyalty means nothing to the company and for this thinking I’m sure we will lose customers because we won’t have Pontiacs to offer. Not even a hope of transfering The G8 or the Solstice or the Solstice coupe be offered in a rebadge, we need excitement cars and these were it! GMC is just Chevy rebadged it would make better sence to get rid of GMC, Pontiac at least had vehicles in its lineup that were unique to the brand. Bean counter mentality will destroy this company.
Nate,
It is always the same disagreement. the company will not follow every plan we think is practical for the company. I am happy though at the decisions they are making. the decision to ax pontiac will further simplify their management structure and allow them to focus on their core of 4 brands instead of the 14 they had not long ago.
I am happy that they at least whittled themselves down to four. You cant fold the Buick brand into GMC because the cost is huge and the benefit is small. GMC is known for professional trucks and construction/landscaping industries and basically for professionals who buy into the professional grade slogan and standard.
Buick is midmarket luxury and theyve done a great job at reinventing themselves and marketing the brand to a variety of demographics, even thought some people come on here and say no one buys them. the numbers and sales for the three models Buick currently produces would state otherwise.
Buick is a relatively low cost brand, they have three stellar products and are mostly combined with GMC dealers. it does not cost GM a lot to produce/own this brand and the money GM spends on this brand actually pays dividends unlike Pontiac.
Chevrolet and Cadillac definately are not tarnished and I would go toe to toe with anyone who would say otherwise. Chevrolet continues to introduce relevant,stylish, affordable and great products. Chevy has undergone a product renaissance and will soon be launching a small car and a variety of new and redesigned products over the next few years. there are still many loyal chevy fans and supporters in america and chevy commands more marketshare than any of GMS other brands combined.
Ive had enough of the brand combination talk because now that the company is whittling itself down to four core brands the consolidation or new names are no longer relevant. their brands have value they just must invest and in some cases reinvent their current portfolio.
If in a few years GMC or buick sales start to fizzle and they make up less than their current combined 5% of the U.S. market, concievably GM could decide it no longer needs them. but a winding down or combination of these two brands makes no sense since they are advertised,marketed and for all intents and purposed are one brand. it is an uneeded cost at a time that GM can not afford.
However GM must move to shed or close Saab,Saturn,Hummer,Pontiac, and a 50% stake in Opel/Vauxhall soon so that they are not destracted by all of their unprofitable lines and businesses and can get back to their core values as an automotive manufacturer and sales company.
the four core brands makes sense because GMC is the professional truck division, while chevy is everything to everyone and more of a residential sales channel. Buick can now become both midmarket and sport luxury, cadillac is of course the upper end of the market and will have a major product redesign and most likely new products over the next few years.
This can be successful. GM wont be at a competitive disadvantage because even Toyota has three U.S. brands now. and Scion currently is only a niche brand which actually puts the efficiency of GMs new plan above where toyota stands with their brands.
If they follow through with everything listed they will emerge a leader once again but will be reflective of market realities in todays market not the market of 45-50 years ago.
I fully support the new turnaround plan and do not think any name changes or consolidations are required at this time. before when we mentioned the folding of 5 brands into one, there was real cost savings. but the combination of GMC/BUICK under the GMC name wouldnt make sense and would be like combining Aston Martin under the Ford banner as ford vehicles. they are two completely different brands that stand for different things and a combination would definately destroy sales and lead to confusion in the market.
the 4 brand structure will allow the company to grow sales nationally and take certain brands international for expansion in coming years.
Anyone can disagree but their new plan is miles ahead their plan first released and Pontiac was a neccesary casualty to allow the company to prosper in the future. their other brands can more than make up fo the loss of pontiac through better advertising and improved product portfolios.
It is a sad day. Pontiacs are the only few GM cars that ever really attract my interest, and they’ve done it well enough to be my last three purchases. I think that dropping Pontiac entirely is a big mistake. Keeping a couple Pontiac sport cars to be sold at Buick dealers could have made sense. Instead, I and many others will probably leave GM as a customer for the foreseeable future (who knows, maybe I’ll feel differently after the disappointment of this announcement wears off….the Camaro looks awfully tempting).
I can’t help but feel that Pontiac was wasted. While “old-man” Buicks are continuing to live on, the “excitement division” is the one being euthanized……it’s almost ironic. I sure hope that tomorrow’s Buicks get more exciting, because they are truly yawn-mobiles right now, and I can’t see ever considering one. GM, your lineup has to be more compelling than Toyota’s, and I mean style-wise. If people want appliance cars, yours are not the ones that will be at the tops of everyone’s list. Take what’s left (Chevy, Buick, Caddie), and give me a reason to choose them. Otherwise, I might as well be a soul-less metal box from any other company.
RIP Pontiac
ted pontiac DID NOT build anything it just rebadged cars from the other car companies. V-8 powered cars are done at GM because of the 35 MPG mandate from the feds. i got mine a 2008 corvette and i plan on keeping it for a long time to come even if the feds raise the gasoline tax to get the price to $4.00 a gallon to sell the new govt mandated cars.
And so goes Pontiac. Saturn. Hummer. Please tell me that the G8 will be picked up by another brand!
The elimination of Pontiac is one of the worst ideas they could come up with. The brand stands for Performance and Excitement. How do you convey that with products like the Vibe, G6, G5, and G3? The G8 and Solstice are the only two cars Pontiac has that are worth owning and are right for the brand. The other vehicles needed could have easily been done with platforms we already have or are in the development process. Why not a Bonneville off the Holden Caprice? How about a modern Firebird off of the Camaro? How about an appropriate GTO? Why not do a series of small, RWD cars?
If BMW can be profitable catering to enthusiasts, why not Pontiac? At least performance car buyers are not fickle like some others. If you can make cars to keep the enthusiast happy, you will have great word-of-mouth about the brand. And enthusiasts will pay to get the cars they want – they don’t bother to check the price at the pump first.
All car brands must be defined by the products they offer. When a car brand can’t offer products that live up to its intended image, the brand suffers. Pontiac was no different – it just needed an influx of more of the right kinds of cars with the G8 and Solstice as a start. It is a shame that the imagination, creativity, and drive to make Pontiac what it should have been – a world-class competitor in the performance car market – just was not there.
I understand the need to retrench in a time of austerity. I also think that Pontiac is the sacrificial lamb to appease Obama. He had a political need to show some punishment to GM. I think you should say Pontiac is on a hiatus and is being temporarily discontinued until the climate is improved. I think there will be a place for a profitable Pontiac in the future when the economy improves and when a stronger GM is independant of government largesse. What a future Pontiac should be is a division of small luxury rear wheel drive performance cars. Some day the economy will improve and a restructured GM will be profitable. I would hope that GM does not completely abandon Pontiac and retain plans to bring it bacdk once it gets out from under the governments thumb.
I think BUICK-GMC dealers will need a Pontiac in the future. I also dont understand why automakers wnat to get rid of so many dealers. They are independant businessmen. The dealers are your real customers. If marginal ones hang on, so what? As long as they buy cars from GM. I think the deomestic automakers may do themselves serious harm if they get rid of too many dealers. In my case I like to comparison shop..
No wonder GM is having problems! Why in the world would you get rid of Pontiac, when it has got several great reviews for the G8 and G6? The division that needs to be axed is Buick!! Bucik doesn’t fill a need within the company! It goes after the same market as some of the upper chevorlet cars and lower end cadillacs! if you kill Pontiac you are sealing the fate of GM forever!! No wonder Ford is in the best shape! They atleast recognized what customers want!!
I don’t know what type of boring company GM is going to become. I am amazed to see the effect of the government over this fine company. The thought of Chevrolet, Cadillac, and Buick being the remaining offerings is beyond me. Pontiac was always the division that captivated my interest: agressive styling, solid performance, great value. There was a distinct image that connected with me (at least until the Aztek came along). As a 42 year old business owner, I would think I would be in the target demographics of what GM would consider. I could not be more bored by Buick. Cadillacs are interesting to look at and technically sophisticated, but not the image that suits me, Chevrolets are solid, quality cars, but aside from the Corvette and Camaro – not much to talk about. After seeing the clip from the New York Auto Show about the ridiculous PUMA vehicle – I asked myself who the heck would ever want to spend 8-10 thousand dollars on something so stupid? I truly believe that a company has to produce products that elicit passion from it’s potential customers. So much improvement has been made in the quality of the products, it’s a shame to see that they will be trapped in largely unintersting “wrappers”. I truly hope that someone can rethink the demise of Pontiac: a Firebird / Trans-Am version of the new Camaro would be a great addition to my fleet!
April 27, 2009
I’ll Keep the Pontiac Concept Going in My ‘02 Mitsubishi Mirage – Art-Deco
Pontiac, Soon Buick Most Likely – Gone!
I just heard that GM has scrapped Pontiac. I’m shocked! A couple years ago, I heard it would be Buick, so probably that model will go soon after Pontiac. That would leave GM where Chrysler now is – with two model cars. Chrysler got rid of Plymouth a couple years ago, DeSoto many years ago – good cars! So, both companies will have left their most expensive and least expensive cars – Cadillac, Chevy for GM; Chrysler, Dodge for Chrysler. Plymouth should still be with us, except that Dodge also builds trucks, as with Chevy and Ford – low priced three. With GM and Chrysler down to two car models, Ford probably should get rid of Mercury, sadly. The three major American car companies would and should be on an equal level.
Pontiac has always been a glorified Chevy, thus one of the reasons, perhaps, GM getting rid of it. Oldsmobile was considered a cheaper Buick, thus, perhaps, the reason it was gotten rid of. Olds was a great car, as Pontiac. But still, I consider it unacceptable. I say, get rid of all the excess models within each brand. Too many SUVs too!
Pontiac was a very uniquely designed car from the mis-’30s to around 1956, my favorites being those from 1941 to 1954. Some of the most beautifully-designed Pontiacs were of those years. When I was a boy of seven, my dad bought a 1947 Pontiac convertible – a light gray with black top. I’ll never forget the impression that car had on me! It was something new, an electric-operating top going down. I loved the parallel stripes that went down the hood and fenders, and the trunks on sedans. No car was styled quite like the Pontiac!
Refer to here to the 1950 Pontiac Catalina:
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2073513290029559631tpUsHg
http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/yourgarage/cars/8193.shtml
You see a gorgeous 1950 Pontiac Catalina and that fantastic instrument panel!
I could not show you here re attached photos I have, an exact likeness to our 1947 Pontiac convertible, but I could attach a photo to a future email to you, if you like. What a car!
In the mid-’60s, Pontiac came out with some beautiful designs. I loved the ‘66 Pontiac Grand Prix, another photo of which I could send you in an email attachment – one my step-mom owned until the early 1990s. White. This was a beautiful car! The LeMans and GTO of these years were great! The present Pontiac GTO? Nothing like the older ones!
In recent years, Pontiac lost some of what it was. The G-6, in my opinion, is not an attractive car – certainly not outstanding as Pontiacs used to be – especially the 4-door sedan. Like many cars today, butt up, front weighed down; and it has a ridiculous snake-like side window line. That really makes for more of its unattractiveness, and not practical, I would think, for passengers inside.
GM and Chrysler may as well be no more, maybe their cars going it alone – Pontiac going it alone! This car should be saved in some way – people love Pontiac! Chrysler merging with Fiat will only benefit Fiat, since it is already in better shape than Chrysler – Chrysler being fully absorbed, then simply being no more. Boy! I loved Chryslers too! We had a 1937 ‘Royal’ 4-door sedan during WWII, when there was gas-rationing. I remember we took a trip to Baltimore in it – a long trip back then – no Jersey Turnpike. That car never failed us!
Why is this happening to the American auto industry? It’s mainly greed, and as a result of that – more poorly made products at higher and higher cost. Americans have had enough!
The 20th Century, up to the 1970s, was America’s greatest years re autos it has made. The 21st Century belongs to foreign production, sadly, behind other formerly made American products, e.g. television. I remember as a young boy and adolescent – RCA, DuMont, Zenith, Admiral. There was nothing like them, and such beautiful cabinets! What a shame, our cars too headed that way!
How I wish I could show you my Mitsubishi Mirage, given the art-deco treatment to resemble those old Pontiacs I loved. I considered buying the Pontiac Sunfire, to perhaps work on to bring back those silver streaks Pontiac has in the ’40s and early ’50s, but I saw more of the shape desired in the Mitsubishi Mirage. It hurt me to have to buy a foreign car, but I knew they were and are made well. I’ve not had one complaint with this car yet – seven years old, admittedly with only 44,000 miles on it though. That is because of the effect of the bad economy on me, a man 69, on Social Security only. It’s hard! But maybe my car will last the rest of my life, not driving it as much as I normally would.
I guess that’s it, but I am so saddened by the end of Pontiac, as I was the Olds, but this is really it!
TVB
I am completely disheartened that GM is essentially handing over 50% of our company to the government. I can’t believe no one has even commented on this.
Jon A.
I think the G8 would do well as an Impala. Though I strongly suggest using the prancing impala logo rather then the chevy bow tie. I think the G8 wouldn’t look good that way.
Personally I think the Sky needs to goto Caddy and the Solstice to Buick. Upscale the interiors and give them a true 300 HP… possibly even the CTS V6 rather then the turbo 4 in the case of Cadillac.
With a Buick Grill the Solstice would probably look like a BMW…
I think Buick needs a 2 door coupe on part with an Audi A5… something smaller then the La Crosse but with the same or similar options (AWD, 6 Speed and 250+ HP).
Stan,
I think GM needs their version of Scion… A new brand that no one associates with GM. Keep Caddy and Buick and make a new company to fill in for Chevy, Pontiac, Saturn and Saab. Something that gives people a new hope for GM and makes them feel like GM is a revamped company.
If GM could develop a brand that they can keep hidden from the public as GM they would do well. But even a brand like Saab can’t do that. I was watching the review of an Aero X and the reviewer bashed the Saab for not having enough set you back in the seat and an unrefined gear shift (personally I prefer a crisp gear shifter). The point is that GM needs to get rid of these images by reviewers or find other people to review their cars.
GM needs less cars… Again AX everything but Caddy and Buick and make a NEW brand from the ground up with the latest and greatest best of best talent GM has.
Eric P,
We don’t think GM can’t make great cars… we think they can do better then their competition from over seas… but they need to make it a point to do so.
dazed,
GM has already died and is on life support. Apparently you forgot that point. GM needs to shrink a bit. Additionally people may want these things but how many of them NEED them. Either way I say make the G8 a Chevy it will sell there.
John,
I disagree I like the G badges they are clear cut and new. I’m tired of the old names that bring back images of junk from the 80s and 90s. Give me new and different.
The only reason I didn’t buy a Pontiac is they lacked the options I want and interior quality I was after, pontiac didn’t have it even in the G8.
gtjeff,
Icons aren’t a big deal. WAS is the key word… they were known for that… times have changed and GM is on life support. Its not that hard to understand one of them had to go.
GM will only lose creditability for a short time. Then people will forget and buy their next favorite brand. Some foreign buyers will buy GM while other Pontiac Loyalists will either go elsewhere or buy Chevy or Buick. I’m not seeing the issue here.
Personally I don’t want 20 year old styling or to bring back a dead muscle car like the GTO. I want a modern car. So I guess I disagree with you completely. I think the new GTO is a nice looking car with an under done interior.
Grand AM is a damaged name. The 90s damaged it. I can’t think of one grand am except the last version of it that I would have ever considered buying. They were junk as far as I’m concerned… same goes with the Grand Prix’s of the 90s.
I think the Solstice isn’t to bad again though its a downgrade in interior comfort and space over a Fiero… but an upgrade in handling and performance. You are right there are people out there who would have bought a new Fiero but I doubt they would have wanted a front engined one. I would rather buy a 4 door now though then a 2 seater even if performance is less. The Solstice and Sky really didn’t have anything noteworthy in them that made them stand out. They weren’t super fast, or road race enviable or super stylish or super nice inside. They were kind of mediocre in some regard.
edvard,
I think Lexus’s appeal is in its stunning understated grace and style. Not obnoxious in your face style. They just look great in my opinion. I could see how you think they look bland but I think they look awesome.
Toyotas cars are a bit bland but they are a well done bland that leaves little for me to complain about. They do what has to be done, don’t feel to cheap and aren’t bad inside. GM can’t seem to capture that same feeling with me.
Ted,
I almost agree with you except the malibu interior is way nicer then the G6.
Jeanne R. Lynch
The intrigue was a nice car but it has a noisy interior. I think the G6 is on par or better.
Dana Williams,
The problem is self creating. Many people dont’ care ware it is made. GM has moved things over seas for cost reasons. Foreign makers have moved in to make their products here more competitively to appeal to the buy American attitude. People don’t care enough to do something about their behaviors. If they legislate they will complain about free market. The writing was on the wall years ago…..
The motivated in America need to be the ones to counter this problem with new products, companies etc… not big companies.
wyldgoat,
Pontiacs weren’t really that exciting anymore. They aren’t noticeably better at performance then other cars even within GM’s lineup. So the excitement can be found in the new Chevy, Buick and Caddys. Or over at Mazda, Subaru, etc…
Again GM needs to chop Chevy, Saturn, Saab and Pontiac, to make a new brand that will be desirable.
Just my thoughts
With the elimination of Pontiac I longer have any rooting interest in the survival of General Motors. I only thought our president would take away our freedoms, raise taxes, short circuit our constitution and put our country in danger, but I never thought that he would take away my favorite car. I am glad John Delorean is not alive to see this mess. It will not be the same watching football on ESPN “the Buick game changing performance” just does not cut it. Pontiac fans call an Oldsmobile enthusiast for support to get through the next few model years.
I better take extra good care of my GTO.
Holly,
What could GM have done. it was either accept tens of billions from the government or die. without this funding GM would not have existed anymore. even Republican free market conservative president bush gave GM a 13.4 Billion dollar lifeline.
so when you ask for money from the government or a bank or any individual you must pay it back. Since GM has zero money in which to do that, it figured an equity stake for the U.S. government was the easiest way for the company to return some value in exchange for throwing it such a generous lifeline.
The government has no interest in managing an ownership stake in GM and will most likely only hold onto it until their stock recovers and the taxpayers can extract some of the value that we heavily invested into this private entity.
GM isnt handing over their company they owe the government as an investor either monetary value, or some form of equity, just like they owe the UAW for their unfunded contributions and are giving them as well as bondholders a stake in the company, it is the only way they can pay back the investment.
anyone who thinks that taxpayer money will be handed over without any accountability or equity is not thinking clearly. I for one think that we should see our tax money back just like in the early 80s when the government loaned chrysler billions, there was a payback of the loan.
People are not more upset over this because they realize the company is acting out of neccesity and in a fight for their life. there are way worse scenarios for the company than the work in progress currently envisioned.
Chief Pontiac –
You asked: Would we consider bringing Opel to North America?
While it’s an interesting thought, there’s more than enough work in getting the European operations restructured. Any future market expansion plans for Opel would need to be weighed by the Supervisory Board.
How can GM be trusted with anything they tell us, the media, or their shareholders now? It has been verified that GM’s B of E voted to axe Pontiac in August of 2008!!!!! Since then, GM has been in complete denial of rumors and blatently lying to the American public about the state of the Pontiac division.
GM can be trusted no more. They have lost me for good as a customer. I was going to buy a Camaro but no more. Instead I will be buying a Honda Accord EX coupe with the V6 and 6 speed manual. Am I selling my soul? Perhaps. But GM screwed themselves and they screwed the American public by lying about the fate of Pontiac and thinking we’d forgive and forget just because they are an American company. Well, not me.
GM can no longer be trusted.
I’m 24 and every car I have ever owned has been a Pontiac (Grand Am, Sunfire, Firebird). With the death of Pontiac I doubt I will ever by another GM.
“Any future market expansion plans for Opel would need to be weighed by the Supervisory Board.”
Mr. Preuss,
And I assume that’s a necessary bureaucratic step in GM’s lean and mean, flexible style of management?
Nate,
NO MORE BRANDS! GM does not need anymore brands to compete with scion or any other automotive brand they need to invest in the four core brands they have. chevrolet could be an easy Scion-Killer over the next few years as fresher,stylish,affordable offerings are added. the last thing they have money for or need is to create a new brand out of anything.
GM needs to focus, they dont need to create anymore brands or have anymore bureaucracy, they need to use the brands theyve got, redefine them, and allow stylish and relevant product mix to guide the company going forward.
Buick will most likely become sport luxury along with midmarket luxury and be able to satisfy a variety of tastes. trust that all brands will undergo a complete marketing and product renovation and reinvention when all this dust settles. the four brand strategy will be able to go toe to toe with toyota and their scion brand.
Give GM’s current restructuring plan a bit of time to work out, I am confident we will see excellent results, let them work through the mess and then theyll see what is needed in the future.
Back in the early 60’s, GM sales made up about 50% of the market…today, they’re at about 18%. As sales plunged, in the last few decades, brand names proliferated. So GM was selling fewer total cars, but under a lot more names, each one requiring expensive marketing support. I think this reorganization is finally recognizing reality. The company’s capacity needs to match their (depressed) sales.
Pontiac, and the other main GM brands, were allowed to overlap too much, and the cars became nondescript. There wasn’t really much difference between the brands. For me personally, I did not seriously consider any GM brands when I bought my Mazda3 in June ‘08. While GMs quality has surely improved, it’s not as good as its competitors yet.
GM’s problems can be traced to the early ’70s. Very poor quality cars such as the Vega stuck in people’s minds. The engine-swapping of the late 70s massively devalued the brands. The bland designs and mediocre quality of the 80s and 90s didn’t excite enough people. And people have long memories. But overall, I think the core of the problem can be traced to quality. If GM’s cars had always been the best-built, most reliable, troublefree, no one would even care about “brands”. They would have built up so much customer love that if GM were facing trouble, like it is now, it’d be playing out like “It’s a Wonderful Life.”
In my opinion, this is the perfect opportunity to get GM where it needs to be.
if GM management would have done this 5-8 years ago GM would not be asking the feds for a bail out but they were afraid of the UAW. tough leaders make tough decisions
J. Christopher Preuss, GM Vice President Communications,
Opel in the US market almost makes sense if you replace Chevy, Saturn, Saab, Pontiac and Buick with it. It’ be totally new….
By Supervisory Board do you mean mom and dad (figuratively speaking)…. Why does GM have to ask permission from a board that probably has made some of the decision that has put them here?
Dutch Penrose,
You mean GM’s inflexible style of management?
______________
For what its worth even though I own a Pontiac right now and find the G6 a decent car for its current price, I do not think the removal of Pontiac will hurt things. As mentioned elsewhere the G6 is a nicer alternative to the Olds Intrigue. I don’t think sporty will disappear with Pontiac gone just as the Intrigue is fun as is the G6 in a very similar way.
New models will come out to fill the void. And GM Could eventually make a reappearance of Pontiac.
In the mean time I will be extremely hopeful for a Buick or Caddy that fits my needs. If not there is always Acura or Audi.
Alex D.,
I assure you that I am thinking clearly as I was when I was of the opinion several months ago that GM should file a Chapter 11 restructure rather than borrow money from the government. It seems very probable that GM will, in fact, be heading down that road several billion taxpayer dollars later anyway. I didn’t state in my comment that GM should not pay back the loan. I stated that I was disheartened and I certainly am.
Too bad….. I was looking forward to replacing my 2003 Vibe GT with a G8 GT later this year. Those plans have sure changed. I really liked the G8 but I don’t think my insurance company will be too happy with no OEM parts stream after the end of 2009. Since 1999 we have owned a GrandAM GT, Safari, Yukon, Regal, Vibe GT and a Lucerne. You may have lost a pretty loyal customer. Sorry…..
Hay I have an idea.
Why don’t you just get rid of GM.
That is the most damaged brand of them all.
Yeah GM failed miserably.
I hope I never buy another GM vehicle ever again.
Why kill Pontiac??? Why not Buick….an “Old Foggie” brand? Pontiac should be like Cadilliac! EXCITING not boring like Buick….What are you thinking? Go ahead and keep running off your future buyers in younger generation.
Fritz,
This may be what you don’t want to hear right now. There is a serious problem with this branding decision (cancelling Pontiac) for the GM CAR buyer. As GM car buyers, we have not been very pleased with decisions made regarding styles and marketing of the mid-range brands. GM car sales show it. We’ve been very hopeful that are passionate for the GM customer given your resume and background. Given the economy, the cost reductions seem like a positive for GM, so we’re with you on the finances.
Its seems that GM doesn’t understand the Oldmobile-Pontiac-Buick customers very well. GM spends plenty of time understanding its GMC customers, but hasn’t listened to GM higher level car buyers for some reason. GM created great enthusiasm for Buick Pontiac and Olds with styling, and its simply not smart business or fair for GM to simply abandon its customers of these brands. We strongly disagreed with the decision to cancel Oldsmobile, but we stayed loyal to GM products. Cancelling Pontiac leaves no choice for the GM car buyer to speak out.
GM is driving away its car customers with not so attractive styles. Buick just doesn’t seem to have it for the Oldsmobile and Pontiac customer, with the possible exception of some Rivieras or the Regal Grand National.
The case for OLDSMOBILE over Buick.
The point is that both Pontiac and Buick customers would buy Oldsmobile, but Olds and Pontiac customers will have a hard time buying Buick, which is viewed generally as an older person’s car.
Many seasoned GM buyers are seeking a higher experience, they’ve outgrown Chevy or really don’t want Chevy and probably won’t buy one. But they do like Pontiac, Olds or Buick. These buyers have had to look to Oldmobile, Pontiac, Buick, for thier choice of cars, and to Cadillac where they can afford it. Buick simply has not delivered over the years on style. It has been viewed as a “old person’s car.” Oldmobile and Pontiac have been the favorite of the GM stylish car buyer. Pontiac’s present style line-up, with the exception of the G6, has not making us very excited. We did like the Oldmobile Aurora, but it was all by itself.
I believe a far better decision under the present circumstances would be to replace Buick and Pontiac with Oldsmobile. That way it would appear like a new direction and it would please both Buick and Pontiac customers. Both Pontiac and Buick customers would buy Oldmobile, but Pontiac customers are going to have a hard time buying Buicks.
The only Buick model name that generates enthusiasm is Riviera. Park Avenue maybe.
The Olds Cutlass Supreme, Toronado, Aurora, 442, and Delta names are strong model names in America that would attract GM’s base Buick and Pontiac buyers.
I hope you will agree, but I’m not optimistic given the present branding choice to cancel Pontiac.
Buick just doesn’t offer much for the style seeking, sport oriented Pontiac/Olds customer.
Choosing to promote Oldsmobile in the North America for the present would be a much better choice and send the right message to GM car buyers. The choice of Buick is not a good one for GM’s Pontiac Oldsmobile customers who have been disallusioned with GM on style. Let’s have Oldsmobile now, then when GM sales and profits rebound in a big way GM could add Buick and Pontiac. This would show the GM car customer that GM cares about them. Cancelling Pontiac looks like GM is conceding instead of moving forward. Oldsmobile makes more sense than ever. Even GMC could have its products in Olds and Chevy, that would focus marketing even more. Ford doesn’t have an FMC and they do just fine on trucks/SUV sales.
The 2010 LaCrosse seems nice, but why the name LaCrosse? Why the name G3, G6, G8? GM customers wanted a real Bonneville/GTO, they want a real Riviera sedan/coupe.
Cadillac desperately needs an entry level style to appeal to the Lexus IS buyer and to the BMW 135i seeker. The Cadillac BLS in Europe is not stylish enough, GM can do better.
Congratulations GM, you just sold me a Ford.
You may as well close your Pontiac dealerships today because no one in their right mind is going to pay a premium price for a car that won’t have dealership support after 2010.
It’s just the last nail in the coffin that began construction when the Pontiac V8 engine ceased production in 1981. I believe it’s for the best, since GM corporate has proven itself incompetent, at least there won’t be any more mistakes like the Aztec or G3.
GM will continue to circle the drain as long as it is run (into the ground) by businessmen instead of car enthusiasts.
Fritz Henderson,
Can you potentially lay out a timetable via GM FastLane Blogs that lets us have a timetable for important asset sales and divestures.
Many of us would like to know where the closures/sales of Hummer,Saab,Pontiac,Saturn and a stake in Opel/Vauxhall will be commencing. it was recently reported many of these sales and closures would be wrapped up by 2010 the latest, it would be excellent to see a timetable sometime in the near future to see what we could expect and when we could be expecting it.
The new survival plan for GM is miles ahead of the former plan and will undoubtedly go a long way in making this company a leader for years to come.
Dana Williams,
I agree at least topically with what you’re saying, that we should try to buy American. If that’s your choice, then you have that freedom. But on the other hand you have to remember that at one point in time in the not-so-distant past, the US was basically along the lines of China today. We had cheap and plentiful labor, huge factories with huge production capacity, and tons of space to stick those factories in, and in most cases with little if any restrictions on emissions or waste. All along the way these plants stamped together the decent yet mediocre products the median income consumer demanded. That was the story for decades and decades, which was to produce cheaply manufactured products and sell them at cheap prices to demanding consumers who wanted things to be less and less expensive.
Enter first the Japanese and now Chinese companies who were able to take this same ideology and produce these same items even cheaper, and in the case of the Japanese carmakers- at even better quality and higher efficiency. Now the Chinese have that distinction, having become the low-cost manufacturing giant that can spew out the still rather mediocre, cheaply priced consumer goods the world demands.
The problem as you pointed out is the consumer. Most people-myself included- wants to buy an item for the least amount of money and get the most amount of value. So if that means I pay $20 for a cheaply manufactured Chinese electric drill that might last 2-3 years versus $150 for an American drill that might last 10 years its because it presents to me the best value. Now add in all the rest of those consumer goods from duct tape, light bulbs, clothes clips, and everything inbetween. People do not shop with their conscious.
The bottom line is that we cannot force people what to buy. People buy because they either like the product or they think the product is worth the expense or lack thereof. This is how free market capitalism works. So yes, I can agree that Wal-Mart to some extent has damaged the way how the US manufacturing industry competes as well as in my opinion negatively impacting the communities they exist in. But then again, as a free and open capitalist country, anyone has the freedom to come up with a better idea and a better way to draw customers. If that means the return of Mom N-Pop stores selling American wares, then I’m all for it. But none of that will happen until the basics of consumer desire is fulfilled.
GM is missing so much luxury car sales.
I’m in agreement with any GM executives out there who’ve said GM should make its BPG dealers Oldsmobile over Buick to please both Buick and Pontiac customers for the present circumstances. Its a bold move, but that’s what will win the customers to GM, in my view. Given the economy, I’ll support the consolidation of BPG, but I’d rather see it as Oldsmobile in North America.
Oldsmobile vs Buick. Olds wins out as the stronger name, since Olds carries the performance sports mantra, the luxury mantra, and the ruggedness mantra all necessary to consolidate Buick-Olds-Pontiac consumer, Olds even has the name potential to carry the GMC models like Olds Denali. GM should at least return to classic names.
Oldsmobile GMC Dealer line-up:
*Toronado sedan/coupe – flagship with optional small V-8 with SIDI and active fuel management.
*Aurora 442 sport coupe LS performance V-8 option.
*Cutlass Supreme sedan/coupe
*Cutlass Sport Truck.
*Olds Alero (Cobalt size)
*Olds pick-up
*Olds Bravada SUV
*Olds Denali
The classic names should meet GM car buyer expectations for style and performance.
______________________
At the same time, I’m a GM loyalist, so if GM still says its Buick and nothing else, in spite of our pleas, if I had to make Buick line-up for this decision, GM should return to classic names.
Buick-GMC dealer line-up:
*Riviera sedan/coupe flagship with a small V-8 SIDI with active fuel management.
*Regal sedan/coupe with Grand National option small SIDE V-8 with active fuel management.
*Skylark – sedan/coupe – ecotec.
*Wagon
*Buick small car like Cobalt.
*Malibu sport truck to Chevy.
—————————————
GM should probably just sell off Opel and stick with Chevy in Europe.
Dear GM Management,
I want to thank you for working as hard as you can to damage and ruin one of America’s most historic nameplates, a nameplate that once defined what was cool and exciting about GM. A couple of years ago many were beginning to think that maybe GM was changing and willing to take the risks to redevelop and rebuild it brands back to their former glory, but your recent actions of the last year have proven that you’re still the same narrow minded and short sighted management that has been gradually digging GM its own grave for the last 30 years. You have taken away pride from millions of Americans who were once proud to call GM a part of their daily lives. You have done an exceptional job at pushing away your most loyal customers and customers who were once considering becoming part of the dying GM family. You shown us (you know the people who once trusted you) that you are incapable of running and maintaining GM, its brands and its customers. You have done a superb job at showing the world how uncompetitive you’ve made GM. I sincerely congratulate you on turning GM into the butt of jokes in the car industry. I also want to congratulate you making millions of Americans ashamed of you. You don’t deserve to call yourselves an “American” company, this is wan’t what America is about. You have brought shame to America as a whole. Toyota, Honda and Hyundai are more American that you’ll ever be, they keep their word, they consistently provide great quality products and services to the American public. At the least the quality cars they make in the US are worthy of being called American. Thank you for destroying everything that was once great about GM and its brands. You just lost a loyal customer.
Sincerely,
Abramo
I think it totally sucks that your getting rid of Pontiac. Way to screw up an historic brand. Just like ya screwed up Oldsmobile. I don’t care about Saturn, that was just an experiment gone wrong. But Pontiac should soldier on in some form. At least make it a niche brand like you people said you would a few months ago. Pontiac has such a small share of the market cause thats what poor decisions let happen. It could be easily revived with the right product mix. I have ideas… hire me, I work cheap.
As a life long Pontiac owner Iam very disappointed by this announcement. I bought my last new Pontiac in December 2008.There is nothing else that GM builds that I am interested in.So now Imust I must take very good care of my Pontiacs that I currently own. That way I can drive them in the future.Good bye GM
The decisions being made at G.M. over the past 25 years has made it increasingly difficult to justify my family s continued support. First,the start-up known as Saturn (which I personally never understood the reasons behind this “divisions” creation to begin with) that created more confusion and brand competition within G.M. than anything else.Then the discontinuation of Oldsmobile (a huge loss to me personally) when it was apparent that corporate has simply lost interest and had given up on this proud,century old, flagship division and now Pontiac? Terrible decisions. Saturn,Saab and Hummer should be jettisoned immediately,true enough but the first two should never have been and the last should not have been offered to the general public.Next,GMC should be the light & medium truck division,period.Chevrolet should have been taken out of the truck market years ago.Why have two divisions building trucks? Years ago,I along with most of G.M.s hardcore supporters knew and understood what each division stood for & offered.For too long now though these divisions have been left directionless and simply drifting.As I have voiced and hold firm belief in,G.M. needs to refocus and define these divisions.Lastly and most importantly though,G.M. needs to stop trying to make each division all things to all consumers.This is a huge mistake,creates confusion and diminishes any brand loyalty whatsoever.Following this logic to it’s inevitable conclusion,one has to question why G.M. has more than two divisions;one for cars,one for trucks.
GM is head to a sub 15% marketshare. All cutting brands does is kill marketshare, and eventually there is nothing left to cut.
Wow, Lutz’s car at Pontiac flopped big time.
Memo to GM – not many people think there’s much of a difference between a Pontiac, a Buick, or a Chevy!
Do away with all of the silly brand names – in modern times they’ve become meaningless [at least there's little to really distinguish them] and that’s part of the reason people aren’t attracted to them.
It is a sad day. Coming from a family of Pontiac owners since the 70s, it really hurt to hear the news. GM let the brand die slowly for many years. Instead of giving us extraordinary Trans Ams, Bonnevilles and Grand Prixs … we got catatonic Aztecs, Grand Ams and G5s. I always said I would be a GM lifer, but that commitment is losing steam.
Well, It looks like I will never get to buy a brand new Pontiac. Having just finished college I’m going to be paying off student loans for a while, which means no new Pontiac for me now, and thanks to Obama no new Pontiac when I finally pay off these loans. Oh well, I will just have to keep my 85 Fiero GT, and my 74 Ventura going. GM has nothing else to offer that interests me, you can say that all of GM’s cars are the same, but at least the Pontiacs had style.
Bear with me…
I’ve owned three Fieros and a Vibe, but mostly I have been a Chevrolet man since I started living and breathing cars. (I currently drive a Saturn Astra, as it was the best car of its kind GM had, and the best car for me. Sorry my support of Saturn – small as it was – didn’t help much.) I love all things GM, and I lament the elimination of any of the brands. It is easy to play Monday-morning quarterback and second guess past business decisions. But these are desperate times, and the company has been hit by the perfect storm. I do think that even with the more favorable labor agreemant set for 2010, some of these tough decisions would have been needed. The company was just too big, with too much capacity, and too many brands to support given the growing competition.
Sure, Saturn looks like a bad idea thru the rear-view mirror, but had the brand taken market share from the imports as intended, there would be a ticker tape parade instead of a slow demise. And yes, they just now have some models to accomplish that goal, but nothing is selling now. Their unique products succeeded to an extent on customer experience – something that needs to remain and be grown into the brands left standing. Oh how I wish Saturn could get future product from Opel/Fiat/Vauhall. That way, I’d still care about them. But I wish them well.
I am hard pressed to think of a Pontiac model that wasn’t just the next step up from a Chevy – except for the Fiero and the Vibe …and the GTO that started a trend, but was soon to be replicated by every other non-luxury brand both inside and outside of GM. Sure, the traditional Pontiac had a unique look and image, but today’s environment does not allow for such luxuries. And I’m sorry to say so.
GMC is a good match for Buick. If a buyer chooses a GMC over a Chevy truck – and many do – what kind of car will they buy? Probably not a Chevy anyway. I too like the Pontiac-GMC match, but Buick is now somewhat of a global brand, and growing. And keeping Pontiac in the States, with the need for a fair amount of differentiation from similar Buicks and such plus the cost of marketing the brand is not unsubstantial. GMC has enough of a share to justify the cost (at least for now.)
Chevrolet (with only a slight exaggertion) is my heart and soul. As with father and child, I pray it outlives me. To have otherwise would be a great blow. But Chevrolet needs new models (not new names…) every 5 years with refreshes in the 3rd year – though trucks can be longer. Just like Honda with their cars. Nothing stands still in this business. The Cruze (I’d rather it be a Corsa or something) needs to be here now. It is being sold in Europe, and we are desperate for a modern product in that segment. The Malibu is in a tough segment too, and needs to keep up and lead the competition in its next incarnation. (By the way, I’ve seen two rental Malibus where there is a large gap between the steering column covers. I assume they are doing something to them – they can’t be coming out of the factory that way. On a better note, I so love how you are hiding the steel wheels on base-model Malibus (and Auras) and some Cobalts – no more seeing those steel wheels through the wheel covers. That is very cool. Has anyone else noticed?) The Camaro is wonderful work. Redo the Impala, call it a Caprice and make the G8 into the Impala and Impala SS. It is already sold in some countries that way, isn’t it? Looking forward to the Equinox (how about a 2-mode Hybrid version to replace the Vue?) and the Spark. Chevrolet is THE global GM nameplate, sold in all corners of the world. Oh, and call the Cruze-based Orlando the Nomad. At least in the states.
GM has always commited to supporting its defunct models for 10 years as far as OEM parts – I assume this will continue to be the case.
I could go on… Best of luck GM, I’m with you all the way.
I have for four years been trying to get an audience with the powers that be at GM. I wanted to introduce them to an idea that very possibly could have save the company.
I will now try to talk with Honda.
The smart money would now be buying the last of the Pontiacs; prices for Edsels, Studebakers, Corvairs, even Fiero prices remained high after they were killed off, some even today command premium prices as “collector” cars.
Quality and value will be the metrics that make or break GM in the next decade. Back up quality product with the world’s strongest warranty, and the customers will return.
Burn us again, and you’re history. Really.
What’s in a brand? Not much, unless you’re an Oldsmobile fan.
What’s in a name? Not much, unless your name is LeSabre.
What’s wrong with Rebadges? Nothing, if you’re Roger Smith.
Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Time and time again General Motors has shown little regard for their most loyal customers, kicking them while they are down, then wondering why their market share declines.
Fritz, you sold your soul to the Gov’t. You will forever be remembered as the man who killed GM.
Consumers would be forced to buy a GM (Ford or Chrysler) if the U.S. had the same auto barriers that some foreign countries have.
The U.S. takes all the goods the world manufactures, while other countries have strict barriers. I do not call that a global economy. It’s one sided globalism.
There should be a moderate tariff on ALL foreign makes (Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Hyuandi, Kia, M-Benz, BMW, etc.) of 5%. That would include foreign makes built here in the U.S.
If Saturn is closed in a year, then Buick replacements like Regal or Vue or maybe Astra would be ready by then or somethin. This would be quite nice.
Holly,
The concept that yourself and many do not understand is that even if GM did file bankruptcy it would be government sponsored. our tax dollars would still be used to support this company. the reason they have been trying to avoid this because the costs would be heavier. GM trying to dispose/sell certain brands and business units outside of bankruptcy will undoubtedly fetch a better price and not be court managed. if they did their good gm/bad gm two business units in bankruptcy and liquidated the bad assets creditors would get pennies on the dollar and the U.S. government would still be assisting them.
For people who dont understand what the company is going through or what the options are it seems shocking, but when you realize that either route the company would take involved government subsidies it isnt so shocking what is currently being debated. As I have said the U.S. government has kicked in money before for their domestic automotive manufacturers, this is nothing new like the 1979 chrysler bailout.
of course in an ideal world there would not be government ownership stakes in industries or massive taxpayer funded subsidies on businesses. but the economic climate in which we currently live is not an ideal instance, and is one where tough decisions must be made in the large employment sectors like automotive and automotive service and banking.
The company will hopefully be able to avoid bankruptcy because their current reorganization will be cheaper and faster than a bankruptcy proceeding and will be better for all involved.
All I can say is this all makes me sick to my stomach. Your largest customer base is your employees, yet you keep axing them all. How much business sense does that make? How many cars do you think you can sell in foreign countries when the majority of their workers make less than $5 an hour? How does ANYONE think our country can survive when we destroy our entire manufacturing base??? Do you think everyone can just sit around and push papers all day? We won’t be able to work at restaurants, stores or 7-11 because they will have no customers. How can anyone shop or go out to eat when they have no money? How will hotels survive? How will builders survive? How will airlines survive? How will dept. stores survive? How will vacation spots survive? And on and on and on… The top 10% that own all of the companies, the one’s that ship all of our jobs out of the country, can’t sustain our entire country’s economy on their own. Just think about it. I am afraid for my COLLEGE EDUCATED children. Will they have to go to India, China or Russia to work? Those are the only places that are hiring. We let foreign companies come into this country, destroy our companies and the companies we do have left here are now moving to their companies out of our country. MAKES ME SICK!!!!!!!
Joe 89,
It was actually an intelligent choice to cut Hummer and Saab. both brands are not volume brands by any means and sell anywhere from 20-30,000 units a year. theyre loss making and dont help the company at all.
Saturn has never turned a profit. this division also doesnt sell a tremendous amount of cars but is loss making. so who cares even if you sold a million units from this division it isnt profitable and has never been.
Pontiac has been mismanaged for years and due to the recent crunch GM doesnt have the time or money to reinvent and help the company this rough decision was a good choice overall.
their renewed focus thankfully is not just huge marketshare. they seek to grow their remaining U.S. brands and be able to make sure each division turns a profit. we will see GM come out even stronger with more marketshare since it will not be worrying about niche brands and creating product and advertising programs for divisions that dont turn a profit.
what it is doing is taking unprofitable business units and shutting them or selling them. their strategy of 15 brands selling mediocre products at relatively low volume has not been working for some time. obviously they are not cutting brands with huge marketshare or profits they are cutting the brands that are bringing them down. if 8 out of your 12 brands are unprofitable and a huge drag for the company how long do you think they can be supported, well GM is finding out right now that they cant.
Buick will be going global over the next four years sharing components and vehicles with Opel in this globalized world. this will give Buick a full line up and some midmarket luxury and sport vehicles to be able to take the place of the Pontiac void.
GMC will be also reinventing itself over the next few years as it replaces models,creates new advertising, and shares some vehicle architecture with other global divisions of GM.
This new strategy will allow GM to enter worldwide markets and expand their leadership with ease. without having to wory about unprofitable brands and a business strategy that hasnt worked in 20 years or longer.
the restructuring moves announced only help the company and not hurt. their cutting of unprofitable brands is something that should have been considered years ago, not after they had been marked for dead.
Overall the company will be much stronger and ready to take on the market and be a leader, something they have not been with their products or technology for quite some time.
Please save the G8 as a new flagship for Buick. You could make a luxury Park Avenue and a performance Gran Sport to satisfy the older Buick buyers and bring in younger people who are new to the Buick brand. Please don’t cheapen the Buick brand with a Aveo/G3 or a fancy Cobalt, Buick is premium not cookie cutter.
I really hope the guys in GM upper management are reading these blogs. I believe if they take note they will see that stopping Pontiac may end up being a bad decision. Please tell me that just because it was said and delivered to the goverment that it’s not final, can you change it?? Based on numbers that I was seeing from CNNMoney.com Pontiac was #3 in US Sales. How can a company cut a brand that’s #3 in sales for it’s homeland? How can you do that? Yes we know that Buick has big sales in China….so, keep Buick for China and but cut Buick and all the management on the US side. China would never know the difference. Or if you have to stick with stopping the Pontiac brand, then just cut out all the management and sell Pontiac badged as Pontiac on all the other lots. I don’t care where you sell them I just want a Pontiac to drive. GM really has a strong core customer base that love Pontiacs and unfortunately they will either lose those customers to foreigh brands, or like me have a “previous customer” now searching the used lots for nice Pontiacs to buy and drive.
GM please think this through and take note of all your customers….read your blogs.
Fritz and company -
Last night on YouTube I watched the MPGomatic.com review of the 2009 G6 with the 4-cyl and 6-spd automatic. They loved it. They averaged 36 highway. Thats all great, but the problem is that GM ALWAYS introduces a car, it gets mediocre/decent reviews, then 3 years in you start to make it interesting but the damage is done, the car is passe. That 4-banger should have had the 6-spd on day 1 of the model intro.
In 1990 Pontiac was the third best selling nameplate in America. Third. I know the SUV craze hurt sales, and that was beyond Pontiac’s range. But when I rent a 2003 Grand Am, and the interior is near identical to my 93, that is sad.
I have 2 closing ideas.
1) For existing Pontiac owners, as a thank you (?) I would say if you buy any Pontiac over $30K, you get a G3 for free. Silly, right? But you have a 671 day supply of them, and if I wanted to buy a G8 GXP that gets 20 highway, having that econobox isnt a bad idear. Your never going to sell those things, so generate some decent PR.
2) Second, and this is for Bob Lutz, Bob, how about a limited edition 2010 Solstice (roadster) that has the fascia of a ‘77/’78 Firebid? I can see the Saturn Sky being 1/2 way there, you can just place a beak-like grille. It doesnt have to be exact, just a tribute look! And Black and Red versions, only.
Bad move,bad management. You people have been trying to kill Pontiac for years by taking away models(Firebird,Bonneville,GTO,Grand Prix) and give half hearted efforts to keep it going.Why didn’t you give them the Firebird back instead of the Camaro to Chevy?They already have a sportscar the Vette.Your market research said that the Pontiac customers will more than likely switch to Chevy or Buick…Not this customer,My GM days are over.
So much for “rebadging back in the ’80’s”
“You mean GM’s inflexible style of management?”
Nate,
You missed the irony in my statement. Sorry.
Mike Lewis,
There are a bunch of us out here who like Buicks. Certainly the new LaCrosse… and I’m part of the ‘younger’ crowd. Pontiac just doesn’t have the refinement that I’m after. Buick is equally capable of being sporty.
Edwin,
And I’m sure most will stay loyal to GM’s future products. I really don’t get the OPB thing. There are to many overlaps in markets and none of them really hit the nail on the head in my opinion.
I thought the last gen of Olds looked great… and I’m one of those who LIKES the LaCrosse and even to an extent the G6 (not refined enough to own). So I’m not sure what you are talking about.
You are right Olds would be a good alternative. But its just a name the product shape goes a long way to sell me. And the name or more importantly the emblem sells me the rest. As a reference I think the emblem on the Malibu doesn’t fit. A nice rounded car with a square obnoxious logo. Why not a Malibu emblem similar to the prancing impala?
All GM needs is the right shape car and the right emblem to go with it. I loved the restyled Olds Logo. The Opel logo is another great modern logo that fits right in with the likes of Lexus, Infiniti, Acura and Audi to name a few.
I thin kthe G6 and G8 have decent styling (at least the 4 doors) and the Solstice isn’t bad (lacked the interior execution I would have liked to see.
The Aurora wasn’t bad but had a real cheap feel on the interior. It also had weird handling characteristics that made it feel very different from anything else I’ve driven from GM.
The best decision is to drop ALL the brands but Cadillac and find a few new ones. The strategy now isn’t going to work well because no one will be happy with GM. They are better off trying not to please any one group and start fresh to please them all with a new brand. The other options is to reduce the brand name to a model name giving GM the model spread they need (downsized at that) while meeting various niche markets and keeping the legacy names alive (though I have no idea why you would want to do that).
Why does Buick have to stick with old names? Why not invent new ones and sculpt the cars and names together to be what customers like me are after?
Cadillac does need a smaller car but it needs to be a Buick. Cadillac styling is just to agressive for many Lexus and BMW customers. Many of these people seem to like highly curvatious cars with somewhat under-styled yet sophisticated looks. Cadillac is marginally offering this in my opinion. Buick’s LaCrosse is more inline….
Sam I Am,
People will buy Pontiacs and GM will no doubt support them just like they did for Oldsmobile. As to the Pontiac V8 I couldn’t disagree more with you.
edvard,
I shop with my conscience. In terms of cars… there is no WAY in heck I’m going to buy a new car that isn’t exactly what I want at a price thats reasonable. Why would I spend the money on a new car when a used one suits the needs at a much more reasonable price. Fortunatly for GM my next car will be a CTS becaues it best suits my demands.
I don’t think however most people shop this way. They buy it now enjoy it and then throw it away (the drill you mention). Other people like me use things until they can’t be fixed (again those 10 and 20 year old drills I presently have are a good example). There really is no concept of value with many consumers.
I have found that after buying cheap products that break numerous times that it is more cost effective to spend more and buy a better on from the get go.
You are right this is how free market capitalism works until resources make it impractical to work that way.
None of that will happen until the consumer wants less quantity of goods and more quality. Aka a simpler way of existing.
Edwin,
Again I fully disagree. BPG isn’t the way nor is Oldsmobile… A new brand name is needed… though I guess I’d take the Olds idea… they have a nice logo and their last cars didn’t leave a super bad after taste so to speak. The interiors were noisy and cheap but were styled nicely excluding material and color schemes.
Bring olds back… just keep those ancient names off of most of the products (bring a few back to appease the old tymers).
I would take a modern Cutlass based on the Lacrosse or CTS chasis.. or a smaller AWD car.. I would buy a 1990 Cutlass if I could find one in good shape and get parts for it. One of the few cars from Olds I really liked.
Joe89,
Cutting marketshare is what GM needs right now. Until it can get its act together and produce cars people want. GM pushed marketshare for the past 25 years and look where that has gotten them. No one cares if you sell the most cars if your products suck. Look at cars like BMW they have a great reputation with many people and don’t seem overly concerned about being #1 in the world.
Being #1 in the world is an egotist’s attitude and I doubt it will continue to work for GM. GM needs quality products not quantity junk. It just took 20+ years for people to figure that out.
William Decker,
I think you are somewhat wrong. The whole problem with GM’s brands is that they don’t cater enough to all customers. A customer buying a foreign competitor gets a nice balance of features in a car. GM customers with any one brand except for maybe Cadillac can’t find this kind of balance. If you buy Pontiac you get looks, mediocre performance and mediocre interior. If you buy chevy now you get the same etc… GM needs one brand that has options for everyone not 4 or 5 brands with different looks and options for a small few. For instance how many GM cars are available with heated leather seats? Someone I knew didn’t buy GM for that reason alone. The car they wanted at the time they wanted to buy didn’t have heated leather seats so they went to VW where they bought a small car with all the options they want.
BTW you shouldn’t have to be an enthusiast to understand a companies product offering. This is why the Pontiac G series made so much sense. It put the cars right in order for the new customer to “get”.
Ric Troll,
you are totally right. The identity of the brands is gone let them go and create a new identity in a new brand.
The Chevrolet Pontiac
How’s this for an idea?
Move G8 over to Chevrolet and let Chevy dealers sell it as the Chevrolet Pontiac. (At least it’s a better name than Cruze.)
chiefpontiac
Questions for Fritz not posed during teleconference:
1. You stated quite frankly that th emarketing muslcle wasn’t there to push Pntiac forward. Where are you planning on coming up with the marketing resources and revenue to push frward Cadillac and Buick from what, compared to Pontiac in North America, has to be viewed as certainly lackluster. (from GM’s own reports, in North America Pontiac outsold Buick and Cadillac combined in both 2007 and 2008 calendar years by around 60,000 units each year)
If chiefponitac is correct about these sales figures, then killing off Pontiac was an even more bone-headed move than I ever thought. What a way to kill market share, sales, and alienate customers. Pontiac was damaged by bad product decisions, therefore, it could have been fixed with the right ones. As far as not having the resources to put any marketing muscle behind thPontiac, has Mr. Henderson ever heard of word-of-mouth? How about the concept of something being able to sell itself? When you make a fantastic car, a real “gotta have” kind of car, it will sell itself and generate word-of-mouth buzz. I would like to know what Mr. Henderson’s plan will be to get people (especially young people) into a Buick-GMC dealership to buy cars since they will only have two – the LaCrosse and the Lucerne – to choose from.
Definitions:
CHEVROLET – Affordable family car and rental car (not including Corvette and, once again, the Camaro).
BUICK – A car for an old person without the wealth to purchase a Cadillac but able to afford more than a Chevrolet.
CADILLAC – A car for an old person with enough wealth to move up from a Buick.
GMC – A truck.
PONTIAC – Excitement, youth, affordable performance!
Congratulations! You just got rid of the division that has traditionally set you apart from your competition.
J. Christopher Preuss said: “Any future market expansion plans for Opel would need to be weighed by the Supervisory Board.”
Weighed by the Supervisory Board? What exactly is this “Supervisory Board?” Please reconcile your statement about a needed Supervisory Board review with Mr. Henderson’s statement above titled “Deeper, faster execution.”
Which is it: Are you going to be a lean, mean and agile 21st century manufacturing company, or one larded with added layers of bureaucracy such as the Supervisory Board?
I hate Toyota, their ways and their cars, you GM are becoming Toyota. Bland, boring, and same old crap that boring bland people buy and drive. I bought Pontiacs because they were exciting and looked like nothing else on the road, they showed I was a car enthusiast and was proud to be different. Instead, now I have to settle for the same old boring crap. What does Chevy have, the Corvette which I can’t afford, the Cobalt SS that is a ricer wanna be and the Camaro which is aaa, ok, nothing to right home about. My Collector Edition Trans Am looked like nothing else, was fast and affordable. The G8 GXP was going to be my next car, now you’ve taken it away. Dam you GM, dam you….
GM needs to stream line everything. Get rid of the seperate “brands” as an entire brand and keep each model from each brand that works.
Have a single “GENERAL MOTORS” dealership that sells the “Pontiac” Solstice, “Chevy” Corvette, “GMC” Yukon, etc… This will eliminate the need for Pontiac, or any “brand” to exist as an entire separate car line, yet allow each brand’s history to remain in tact.
This will allow the best cars/trucks from each brand to stay alive and stream line GM’s company and overall service. No one needs more then 1 version of the exact same car.
This will help all the dealerships because its better to stay in business then to have to close your only “pontiac” or other brand dealership.
Everyone wins here.
I just hope someone at GM reads this comment!
How come you won’t publish what I wrote? Does the truth hurt? Everything I said was the truth and you know it. I hope you can speak Chinese because your job will go there next!!!!!!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Save the Vibe ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Call it a Chevy if you have to, but save the Vibe.
Bad news travels fast, and that describes all the emotion attached to a sum of thoughts echoed here in this blog. However GM survives will be a closed chapter on one of the oldest business models created by Alfred Sloane, ‘ a segment for every market and a car for every wallet’. Fondly remembered here in the empty halls of GM, but lamented because we are living witness to the folly created and propogated far beyond it’s uselfullness when GM started to lose the 50% market share enjoyed during the heyday of our parent’s beginnings during the late 50’s and early 60’s. I say we bid the old GM business model farewell, it served it’s purpose but wrecked havoc in today’s market, where we witnessed Toyota and Honda, along with Nissan focus on two core brands; everyman’s and luxo models. GM was too burdened with legacy not only of costs but history. It was too timid to give up the ghost that Sloane and his marketing genius of the time and realize that keeping several brands, canabalizing each other in the show rooms, was a model for ultimate failure. As with all passing on types of event we can recollect the fond memories of the impact these brands had on us all, but just as well it will take time to let them go, the way of the Nash, AMC, Olds, Dusenburg, Cord, etcetera, etcetera. GM will survive by only changing or rather discarding a business plan which is no longer sustainable, let not pride get in the way of reality. Let us all look forward to a new GM, which God help us, will not only survive but continue to produce the right products that people will want to own and drive not because someone tells them its the right thing to do as a patriot, but because there’s an emotive attachment that pushes thier interests and peaks the need to want one! So long Alfred, and hello America!
hotrodtodd:
I never make up sales figures. GM might, but not me. I only report what GM reports in monthly-quarterly-annual charts. Here is where to find them. http://www.gm.com/corporate/investor_information/sales_prod/
And if GM is going to cut back to a 10 million unit break-even they are going to have to increase sales by 1.6 million compared to last year’s 8.4 million performance just to achieve that benchmark which wasn’t seen since 2006. (again their numbers, not mine)
Other media pundits kept reporting the bleak 267000 or so Pontiacs sold just in the US, my job as I saw it was to make sure that people realized while Pontiac was not a worldwide brand (and whose marketing or lack of fault was that) it had a considerable presence in Mexico and Canada. So much so that Pontiac continued to build Montana minivans strictly for Canada long after GM corporate got out of that market segment.
Sales in NA for 2008
Pontiac 382,949
Saturn 206,733
Cadillac 170,481
Buick 154,275
I’ve been a Pontiac enthusiast since the dawn of the muscle car era. I am a proud owner of a Pontiac Solstice GXP but I am also outraged and very disappointed in GM for planning to pull the plug on the Pontiac brand. I grew up in the 60’s and 70’s and Pontiac during those times meant styling and performance (until government and insurance industry intrusions, etc. changed all that). Now so soon after that spirit reemerged in the new GTO, G6 convertible, Solstice, Grand Prix GXP, G8,etc. GM wants to scrap and scram from this niche market (sorry, the Chevy products will not fill the void in my opinion) while the UAW continues to choke GM into unconsciousness? Wasn’t killing Oldsmobile enough? I see a lot more Pontiacs than Buicks on the road! Isn’t it time to stop retreating and contracting? IF GM KILLS PONTIAC I WILL NOT BUY ANY MORE GM PRODUCTS!
J. Christopher Preuss, GM Vice President Communications, your wrong! “I do not think the removal of Pontiac will hurt things.” You just don’t understand the customer that would buy a Pontiac is looking for. Its style, performance and quality. The new Camaro is nice, but doesn’t have that aggressive look of the Firebirds. I can not buy a Camaro cause it doesn’t set my heart on fire. The 2004-2006 GTO’s missed the styling also. Didn’t set many hearts on fire either. You, J. Christopher Preuss just don’t get it. Your not a car enthusiast. You have no idea of what driving a Pontiac means. You drive a G6. Big deal. Like you said “its a decent car.” That car has never won a comparision test and doesn’t hold up to the foreign makes and the Malibu. Why didn’t you put more effort into the quality and style of the G6 like you did the Malibu? Build what the Pontiac enthusiast is looking for (try asking us, have you been the the POCI events or Trans Am & GTO clubs) and call it a Grand Am or Le Mans, not G6.
To let Pontiac die and have two luxury divisions and two truck divisions makes absolutely no sense. It would not have been hard to bring the nameplate back to life. Just bad decisions after bad decisions! You cancelled the Firebird. Screwed up the styling of the GTO. Alphanumeric names and comparing Pontiac to BMW in commercials. Who walks into either dealership and compares the two. We want Trans Ams, Bonnevilles, Grand Prixs, GTO’s, Grand Ams, etc. You just pissed off thousands of devoted Pontiac enthusiasts. We’ve been waiting patiently for you to turn this division around. But someone in GM has always tried to squash this division.
One more thing. What’s next? I know, Obama is going to tell you what to build. Embarrassing to see Wagoneer just sit there and take that crap from our corrupt, hypocritical politicians. GM has no balls! What happened to the car enthusiasts that use to run GM. You have lost a customer for good. See ya GM! Long live Pontiac!
hotrodtodd,
That is exactly the problem. Pontiac isn’t word of mouth material. In fact all of GM’s line are close but not quite word of mouth (except maybe the quasi legendary new Camaro).
Young people have some options with GM right now. The Cobalt SS, Solstice/Sky, Astra, SS series from Chevy, Camaro etc… Not to mention the newer cars coming out. I think you have a point though that both Buick and Cadillac don’t have a mid size Mazda Speed or BMW 1 series or even 3 series sized cars with the features and options people want.
Maybe this is what GM plans to fix.
Mark S.
As a young person I think you missed something. Buick and Olds may be for older people but they have some appeal to younger people as well. Cadillacs these days certainly aren’t for old people (though their price puts them there).
And Pontiacs were nothing more then nice looking Chevy’s anyway. Buick can be awhat Pontiac was trying to be by offering a nice small car.
Mike,
Why not a CTS? Or why not buy a G8 GXP? its not like the dealers are sold out of them right now.
Eric Schwiz,
You are correct, though I’m not sure I’d agree with your choices.. I think you make a valid point. If GM put each of their brands in charge of only ONE model and used common engines and transmissions amongst them (with different options like turbo, super, HP ratings etc) They could come out being a much leaner company. The same result however can be achieved by dumping everything but Cadillac and Buick and Adding a totally new brand to cover the low to mid end.
There are so many ways to make GM work again not sure why no one takes them seriously.
This necesary and long overdue restructuring is and wil turn GM into a “lean mean fighting machine!”
I just hope the real carbuilders restructureGM into a winning form, before the government spin dizzies drunk on their new power, decide to play auto executive.
I thought this was a wise choice since you’d already planned on Pontiac to bcome a niche. I just hope that you’ll rebrand the G8 as an Impala and find a place for the Solstice. However, from the rumors I hear that you’ve cancelled Alpha because of the amount of high strength steel it would require and not viable as a Chevrolet, decided on a FWD epsilon platorm for the new small Cadillac disturbes me. I’d have thought that you’d learned something from the failure of the BLS in Europe. The fact that you are only building one car, the Camaro, on Zeta is a bad choice when it comes to economies of scale. The short wheel base Holden could easily be thet next Impala SS, and the long WB Caprice/Statesman/ Chinese Park Avenue, a new Buick in North America too. I have yet to figure out why you had to spend the money on the new La Crosse when you had the Insignia winning COTY in Europe.
Oldsmobile vs. Buick.
Verdict: Oldsmobile is the best choice to unifty the GM core car buyer in America.
I would like to be able to keep all three (Buick, Pontiac, and Oldsmobile). If Pontiac has to be cancelled, though I strongly believe the best decision is to make Oldmobile the brand over Buick as noted above.
Many if not most, Oldsmobile Pontiac and Buick customers really don’t want a Chevrolet. They want a higher GM experience.
chiefpontiac notes Pontiac Sales. Even with its slim line-up, Pontiac is the 3rd best selling brand. It would be doing even better with the right styles and classic names including a real GTO.
GM’s classic names and styling cues generate enthusiasm and sales.
The views of GM critics are really irrelevant on this. Its GM’s base that matters on the car branding issue. GM is risking a large car buying segment. Styling is important to this buyer. GM’s core brands are absolutlely critical to GM’s core customer. Buying American also matters to many if not most core GM customers. GM critics probably won’t buy a GM product anyway, so their opinions are merely rantings.
Cars like the Aurora were among the best cars on the market, best ride, best interior, best engine, an d so on. The Aurora has earned its place as a contemporary GM classic. The Aurora was buy itself. The G6 was buy itself for a while.
GM’s base didnt’ like the Intrigue tail lights much or the 3.5 ohc V-6 with its “oil economy” consumption. When Olds was cancelled its was for all the wrong reasons.
Someone suggested that the G8 could be an Impala. It still wouldn’t matter to the core Buick Pontiac Olds buyers, they don’t want really want a Chevrolet. The Impala SS does’t have the appeal for this customer. Pontiac lost its way with heavy side moldings fo ra while. The upper middle class car buyer wannts a stylish car.
The branding issue for GM car buyers is critical point for GM car sales. These customers may go outside of GM. The best decision to unify GM’s base higher level car buyeris to use the Oldsmobile name in North America. Oldsmobile could even incorporate GMC and be successful.
Both Buick and Pontiac customers would buy Oldsmobiles, and hold it in high regard. However, Buick customers are less likely to buy Pontiac and Pontiac customers are less likely to buy Buick.
Oldsmobile is a bridge for both.
I’m really making an urgent appeal to fellow GM enthusiasts to support Oldmosbile as the brand over Buick. I strongly feel this is the best decision. Making the BPG dealers Oldsmbile would show GM can make bold deciisions for its car customers and has a passion for the customer. Simply cancelling Pontiac appears like GM is conceding when Pontiac is very popular
Many GM enthusiasts which include Oldsmobile/ Pontiac customers will have a difficult time buying Buicks. However, Buick customers are fine with Oldsmobile.
Nearly every member of my extended family owns a GM car. If they have an SUV it is not Chevy, but rather GMC. Our family owns mostly all GM’s higher brand names.. We don’t prefer Chevy. The exception of Corvette and Camaro are unique. (Camaro/Firebird buyers may alternate between the best looks).
Oldsmobile embodies every important aspect of GM enthusiasts who are leading GM, including sport, luxury, durability, quality, and ruggedness. Oldsmobile also has a srong racing heritage.
Buick is too often viewed as an “older person’s car. About the only Buick sport is the Grand National. Riviera does have cross brand appeal for GM enthusiast car buyers. But Oldsmobile still offer the most for GM’s core car buying base. Oldmobile has the credibility to offer a pick-up as well as SUV.
The Aurora served as the Indy Pace car. Oldsmobile has a strong racing heritage.
Choosing Oldsmobile would help to uplift GM’s customer optimism and show that GM management can make a strong decision. The way its being done with Pontiac makes GM management look like they are condeding instead of leading.
We’re asking GM please do this for us, make Oldsmobile the main car brand instead of Buick for North America, if we have to pick one, we will pick Oldsmobile. This will help unite the Pontiac base and the Buick base. Buick is going make it very difficult for GM’s higher level car buyers.
Do this and GM will win for sure.
Hya! Remember Ma Bell.
I think the government should use its same antitrust power and break up GM.
Just like Ma Bell was broken up into its regional parts and the companies that were formed became wildly successful, I think that there is an opportunity here as well.
The first company would be Pontiac and that new company would be given the Newark, Delaware plant that produces the Solstice along with product sharing provisions from Holden. They would be charged with making the plant a “flexible” plant so they can make variations of Solstice as well.
Another company Hummer would be created and that company would be given the one plant that builds Hummer. They also would be charged to make that plant flexible to produce a smaller Hummer H4 in the future along with other variations. Hummer would keep its single brand dealership base.
Saturn would be another company formed and they would be given back their Spring Hill, Tennessee plant back. They would be charged with creating a flexible plant there as well that they can make a range of Saturns from that plant that would eventually produce over 500,000 vehicles 24/7. They would also keep their dealer base.
Now no one will be able to own a majority stake in these new companies nor be alowed to put them out of business for a set period while they ramp up production for 10 years. After that 10 year period they would be allowed to compete in the free market once again.
GM would keep Buick, Cadillac, GMC, and Chevy along with its international operations if it so pleases.
Hay, we can do the same with Chrysler. Three new companies with each given a set of plants, and their own individual dealerships.
Greatness comes in America from the garage not from the coprporate headquarters. What comes from there is exactly what kills the efforts in America’s garages. Just like Ford, you can never keep all of us down, someone will rise up just as long as they are given a chance. GM has stopped stunted, and got in the way of greatness coming from its brands long enouph.
It seems the farther and faster the brands get from Detroit, the better they do. Think Buick in China, Opel in Europe and this is no mistake or coincidence.
It’s not that GM killed the brands, it’s just that they never let their life start. GM is run like an octopus with one big head and many arms. The problem is if the head is injured all of it’s arms are inevvective. That is exactly what is happening now.
If GM were structured in the 60’s as humans running the various parts, the individual spirit, entrepeneur, and success from the garage mentality that built this country would rise up in GM once again. Ford and ALL its brands survived including Jaguar, Land Rover, Mazda and Volvo because they have that autonomy. And Ford is not weaker for it they are stronger and so are those brands with or without Ford.
So GM should have been doing what Ford has been doing, building up the brands like Mazda and stop mixing them up.
I said since day 1 a Pontiac/Buick/GMC network would end up like AMC/Jeep/Eagle. Let me repeat,
I said since day 1 on this blog
a Pontiac/Buick/GMC network would end up like AMC/Jeep /Eagle.
Well I was right.
And I am glad I gave GM advice and they did the opposite.
Now I don’t want to be blamed for the failure that they are seeing now.
The failure is those 5 million Pontiac owners and afficianados that will likely never buy a GM again, not to mention Hummer, and Saturn owners.
Anyway, let’s see what the government does now with GM. Maybe they will take my advice.
Ford did.
Remember Ford doing yoga, and GM was doing sumo while toyota was running a marathon?
Well Ford said bye to Ford and Mullaly was hired soon after.
Ford, don’t get comfortable GM is coming back, I just may have to get into politics to help them now.
Score one point for Ford, a knockout punch for Toyota, and GM gets a standing 10 count while Chrysler is dazed in the corner.
My son just turned 16 last week. He’s anxious to get his driver’s license and his first car.
To simplify my used car search, I asked him what appealed to him. He told me ‘any Pontiac – they are all good’! He then told me he aspires to the 2004 Grand Prix I leased a few years ago.
He said if he couldn’t get a Pontiac then a Hyundai Tiburon would be o.k..
So here I am at a crossroads – get him into a Pontiac or a Hyundai. Let’s see:
- Which line will have better resale value over the next few years?
- Which line will have dealership experts who can resolve those technical repairs the local repair shops can’t?
- Which line will have parts available in 5 years?
If he goes with the Hyundai then GM will lose a customer forever. If he goes with the Pontiac then it will cost me more. In this economy, that’s the WRONG answer.
Tough decisions for everyone these days.
J. Christopher Preuss, GM Vice President Communications,
Please take note of the above entry from “Eric Schwiz” and pass it on to the other members of GM upper management. He has some great points!
Just have GM. Get rid of all the separate “brands” of upper management groups and consolidate them into one GM Management group.
Change the names of the dealerships to “GM”. Start selling your top models from each brand, just as he mentions. “Pontiac” Solstice, “Chevrolet” Corvette, etc. and let them keep the names and style.
This is the best for everyone. The dealers are still there. The names are still there. The style is still there. Your customers are still there.
Eric: I agree. Hopefully management will read your suggestion.
Fritz-
I own an automotive tier 1 supplier in Detroit and GM is a customer of mine. I asked my employees to stop working and watch your press conference on Monday. Everybody seems to think you ‘get it’. Sure there is pain and there will be more to come. However, second guessing and blame is fruitless at this point. I like what you said, “I’m a believer in dealing with reality” and “This is a defining moment of the corporation …it is our job to do something about it”. Your candor is appreciated. Your hard work is appreciated. Your obvious intelligence makes me feel better with you at the helm.
If you succeed, and I hope you do, you will go down as one of the all time great executives in this industry. You have our 100% support and we work hard every day saving GM money and pushing SUGS (sometimes at the consternation of the DRE’s that don’t want to process the paperwork).
Keep up the great effort!!! GM is an iconic brand and believing in the success of GM is on par with believing in the success America!
People are upset about Pontiac but too few people were buying Pontiac. Unfortunately many of Pontiac’s sales were to fleets and not retail customers so you cant simply compare its sales to that of Buick and Cadillac and say Pontiac was healthier. You don’t find a ton of Cadillacs and Buicks at rental agencies. While there are undoubtedly many fans of the brand there were not enough to keep it viable. With the exception of the G6 convertible, G6 coupe, G8 and Solstice there was overlap with Chevy in terms of pricing and vehicle type.
Only in the US do people strive to own vehicles designed and often built in another country. You wouldn’t see this in Europe or Japan. Americans continue not to by American branded cars and consequently the number of American nameplates continues to decrease. Going forward we may have no more than 6 or 7 American brands left to chose from. I would like to think that GM can retain most customers currently driving Saturn or Pontiac models but there is little to suggest that will happen. I sincerely hope GM plans to offer serious incentives to keep existing customers in the fold when its time to replace their current Pontiac/Saturn vehicle. It would be foolish to let these people migrate to Ford or Toyota. While the demise of Pontiac can largely be pinned on the government which is calling the shots for GM we all need to remember that if Americans continue to refuse to buy American products Pontiac wont be the last brand to go. In the end maybe all we will have is Chevy, Ford and Cadillac at the rate things are going. It doesn’t help that the President and the Auto Task Force are constantly berating GM and its past management decisions and basically confirming the skepticism of millions of Americans who believe GM makes nothing but low quality gas guzzlers. If the government is smart they will start to change their tune on GM and make it clear to the American taxpayer that this company offers many competitive products. Bad mouthing the company is only going to lead to lower sales and lessen the chance of the loans being repaid. Why would you vilify a company in which you are heavily invested? Its crazy.
if we put all of the nostalgia and love for the Glory days of Pontiac behind which have been long gone for nearly 30 years, we realize that in the normal course of operating a company cutting a division that was costly to develop product for and was going to be relegated to a 3 car niche brand did not make sense in todays world.
There was a similar outcry from enthusiasts and fans when Oldsmobile left. while both brands have excellent heritages and were innovators in the first part of the century, company bureaucracy and lack of funds led to a starvation of many brands an an acquisition spree by the parent company that did not benefit GM or their core operating businesses.
While I even have much love and admiration for the history of pontiac, I am a realist who realized the business case for keeping this brand was not there at all. It is my hope and belief that luxury sporty offerings will be going to both chevrolet and Buick. this plan is excellent for Buick because instead of splitting product dollars and advertising dollars Buick can become both pontiac and buick rolled into one.
Buick is going to be taken global and sells well in china, this is why this brand was saved over pontiac. there are encouraging worldwide sales results that were not there to back up Pontiac.
The G8 should stay in some form either as a new impala or a Buick Model. elimination of this car will cost GMs holden subsidiary upwards of 1 billion dollars and it would be foolish to cancel a product that was recently launched and is so appealing and eye catching.
that being said, without all of these fragmented and outdated brands, GM can work to develop full line automotive brands, something it has not had since the 1970s.
in an effort to cut costs many divisions began producing less unique vehicles and were rebadging vanilla models that used inefficient technology. talk about resting on your laurels.
Buick is not an old persons vehicle and their styling is quite appealing. I am a sports car enthusiast and only twenty myself and think the company is going to great lengths to reinvent the brand and the sales are definitely following. with only three models under their belt buick sells almost as many vehicles as the full-line of pontiac.
Aligning Buick with Opel will bring a different kind of styling to buick and allow the company to differentiate their offerings from Cadillac or Chevrolet. the recent announcement is all around good news. while upset now, the american consumer will get over the loss of pontiac because there is a new era of efficiency at GM with a renewed emphasis on the customer.
this sacrifice will save huge amount of costs for GM while allowing Buick to become a global sales powerhouse (already seen in china) the U.S. combo of GMC/Buick dealers represent an everything to everyone alternative to the Cadillac/Chevrolet combo. this new scenario will be efficient, will be profitable, and will be the best way forward.
I wish great luck to GM and fully support every aspect of their revised restructuring plan.
To GM management – I realize tough decisions have been forced upon you. Obviously your choices to focus on Chevrolet (no brainer – biggest seller), Cadillac – (luxury, Presidential vehicle) and Buick (Chinese preferred brand) and GMC (Gov’t protection vehicle) make sense, but enthusiasts with a passion for style and performance own Pontiacs. Usually not just once. We get together on forums like LS2GTO.com and G8board.com because we love cars with character that are fun and not just the same old generic style. Cars that we don’t see every five minutes on the street like Mustangs and BMWs.
We get together as a Pontiac family, even without knowing each other we have a common bond – cars that we can really love. We don’t care about the politically correct corporate and government BS, we care to enjoy life the way we want, as Americans, enjoying the freedom to choose and to cruise. It’s not all about practicality, it’s about passion for cars.
We get together and discuss everything about these great cars, the latest and greatest of which is the G8. I traded my GTO for it. The GTO was not a failure. Tell the truth – the Holden Monaro was planned to be phased out after the 2006 model year, but thank God for Bob Lutz making our GTOs happen for those last 3 years. They weren’t meant to go on after that. We love them. We don’t care about everyone elses opinion, we actually enjoy them and use them for more than just transportation. The G8 incorporated the new Zeta platform (Holden Commodore) and is an absolute wonderful vehicle. It’s sold in the UK as the Vauxhall VXR, in the Middle East as the Chevy Lumina SS, in China as a Buick and is a true world car. Great Job, it’s one of the best cars ever made. Google it if you don’t believe me.
Pontiac made mistakes in the 80s and 90s, but fixed it and is making the best cars ever. Those of you that don’t believe it generally haven’t even heard of the G8, much less looked at or actually test driven one. Pontiac was 3rd overall in sales in North America last year for a reason. It’s certainly not because of the new G3 (Aveo, Daewoo) that just came out as a government appeasement / tree hugger / CAFE average econobox vehicle. (Gee, you priced it at 17K! where you can get a G5 XFE that gets better mileage for the same price) People, open your minds – look at the G6 hardtop convertible GT, the upcoming Solstice GXP Coupe, the G8.
It’s hard to change people’s attitudes when they suffered the 80s and 90s but Pontiac was doing a great job of turning things around. Too many people just were so turned off from the past that they wouldn’t even look or drive one. It’s a shame. Every day I drive my G8 GT I get positive comments, usually from people that don’t even know what it is, but think it’s a beautiful car – mine’s Pacific Slate Metallic. It’s too bad marketing almost exclusively on Speed channel didn’t make it to prime time where more than just us enthusiasts would be introduced to it. We saw the ads because we were looking for them in cool car focused media. The people you needed to convince are the ones that had no idea such a nice car exists. It’s still not too late. I know you don’t have the budget for it, but there’s no reason to discontinue the Pontiac Brand. Just stop wasting funds on the ones that are like other generic cars like the G3, the G5 and the regular G6. Let Holden keep going on the G8, allow special orders for the ST, the Sport Wagon (which I know you made concessions to Cadillac so as to not compete against it’s upcoming one). Shut down production for a while to save money, but don’t get rid of the brand.
Everyone go on Holden.com and look at the Commodore, the Sport Wagon and the Maloo. They speak for themselves. Check out the accessories available on the Commodore. Honestly, take the time, you will be surprised.
The GTO was the Holden Monaro, the G8 is the Commodore. Check out the Coupe 60 concept.
If you really love cars, look at the HSV link on the site – check out the W427.
GM, I’ve been a GM enthusiast since I was a kid. I saw GTOs when they came out new in 1964. I had a friend that had a brother with a 1966 GTO, the other brother with a 1967 GTO and their Dad had a 1965 GTO. What a sight that driveway was. I had a 67 Firebird Convertible, a 78 Trans Am and I still have my 1970 GTO. I had a 2005 GTO and traded it in on my G8 GT.
You’re breaking a lot of hearts by phasing out Pontiac. It’s a big mistake. Someone please create a website “SavePontiac.com”. I don’t think it’s too late. This economy is temporary, just like the administration and management. We, the people can make a difference.
Thanks for listening. I’m still a strong advocate for GM even for better or worse. Hurry up and get the Camaro out there. Promote it’s great features. Not just how it can do a burnout. We already know that. It’s a great car too. (For those that don’t know – it’s the second car released on the new Zeta platform that the Commodore, G8, VXR and Lumina SS are based on) DRIVE ONE! You will be pleasantly surprised and those old images and thoughts of the past will melt away as you fall in love once again with a wonderful car.
Best regards, Dean
Well, again the American car manufacturers have made a move to drive away the customer base. Will Detroit ever get the point. You lose more and more market share by deciding what you want the public to have rather than listening to the public and their wants. Choosing Buick and Cadillac rather than Pontiac is just another example of the Big 3 mentality.
Long gone are the days where you can tell people what they want. What you need to do to get new and returning customers is to follow the examples and winning ways of the Japanese and German automakers. They listen to their clients and give them what they want in their cars. But I guess this shows you don’t care. As for me, the Japanese and German automakers will be the winner in this latest screw up of yours.
Are those Pontiac sales numbers just private sales, or do they include fleet sales as well? One big problem has been too much over-capacity funneled into rental fleets. GM tried to ween itself somewhat a few years back, but I think they had to back off of that strategy a bit. In fact, there were a lot of fundamental changes happening at GM before sales died.
And sales are flat not just at GM, but for almost everyone. Honda lost 2.91 billion dollars in the first quarter, its first quarterly loss in 15 years according to Automobile Magazine:
http://rumors.automobilemag.com/6534293/news/honda-posts-first-quarterly-loss-in-15-years/index.html
I agree Cadillac needs a first rate sub-CTS entry, not a front drive segment filler. Hopefully the car will be more Insignia than BLS. And there has got to be a better name than that…
Fritz,
Why hasnt GM put the Pontiac brand up for sale since they have no future plans for it? You have a large loan to the goverment to pay back, Pontiac would have signficant value on the open market.
Since the government now has a significant stake in the GM via the loans, they should force a sale of Pontiac. Of course, GM is afraid another company will leverage the value of the brands heritage and market the brand correctly.
Here is what GM should do for the many loyal Pontiac buyers. Sell the rights to the 450 Saturn dealers so that they can be converted to stand alone Pontiac dealers, include all trademarks in the deal. Since you wont be using the Wilmington plant include it in the sale. Imagine the Corvette guys crying if say, Porsche bought Pontiac and did a spaceframe v8 Fiero GT and how about a heritage inspired GTO? After all, you have no plans for the brand. Plus this would help to solve the problem with what to do with Saturn.
You company really didnt think this decision through well. A lot of younger buyers saw Pontiac and Saturn as an alternative to Chevy. You are kidding yourself if you think they will buy a Buick (who’s average buyer is 62 years old) and many will not switch over to Chevrolet. Next, since Chevy doesnt offer a Malibu coupe, what do you think all of the Grand Am/G6 owners will be buying? Lastly, will the Impala be sporty enough for the legions of Grand Prix owners? Pontiac buyers want heritage inspired model names, not the alphabet soup names you tried tried to force feed them. What it comes down to is understanding your customer, GM has a lot of work to do here. You guys could be a great company like Harley, but not with boneheaded moves like shutting down Pontiac. GM-we cancel excitement (Fiero GT, GTO, Trans Am, Firebird and Grand Prix).
What a sad, sad day for Pontiac enthusiasts. I’m currently an owner of an ‘08 Solstice GXP. And has been mentioned by many here and in the world of automotive media it would seem like the G8 and Solstice would be cars worth fighting for.
I think many people are perplexed with the four core brand choice, but arguments could be made for many of the brands. I for one agree with if Pontiac is worth keeping what makes Buick or GMC worth keeping? Buick will just take away market share from entry level Cadillacs. And GMC competes directly with Chevy trucks. And if those two can survive why not Pontiac as a niche brand? Doesn’t seem to make any sense, and I feel it is alienating loyal customers.
I can see the appeal of keeping Buick as a brand because of its success overseas, particularly in China. But here in the US I think its easier to make a business case for Pontiac than for Buick or GMC. I mean what is mid-luxury anyways? I think its easier to differentiate an Enthusiasts brand to a Mid-Luxury brand. So make Chevrolet your main stream cars, make Cadillac your luxury cars, and make Pontiac your sports cars (even if that means niche because we all know sports cars don’t sell high volumes). Those are three main type of passenger cars anyways. Mix-luxury? Really? And if you want to keep GMC make it trucks and make Chevy only have cross-over type SUV’s.
Of course under those types, what happens to Corvette and Camaro. Hard to argue those away nor would I like to, because I love both vehicles. But by the same token, I don’t see how you can just ax the G8 and Solstice such highly respected vehicles away.
Sadly I think much of this has to do with politicians on Capitol Hill that really don’t understand the automotive industry or its market and the fact that American doesn’t have to start building better cars. It already has great cars it just needs to market them better.
Does GM need re-structuring YES! Do I agree how its going about it? NO! I don’t agree that because Toyota only has three brands, GM needs to follow the same route. GM just needs to focus and yes reduce the number of models that self compete.
Well good luck GM! I do hope plenty of extra Solstice parts because I plan on keeping mine for a while. Too bad I can’t look forward to a next generation of Pontiacs. I have to say my confidence is shaken, but I hope to be proven wrong.
The Pontiac G8 gets better milage than the new Buick LaCrosse
Pontiac sold more than double the amount of cars Buick sold in the 1st quarter of 2009.
How do you people live with your continuous failures??
Seems obvious. You killed the wrong brand.
Very bad work GM. Shame.
Edwin,
I can’t agree on the naming. BUT I can say this. Buick’s new LaCrosse is very appealing to me especially with AWD. To bad they didn’t add a 300 HP engine or a turbo to the mix.
That said I am turned off by the old names. I like the New G6 and G8 name plates. BUT If a car like the G8 came out with a name like Grand Prix… it wouldn’t deter me. It is about the styling and the features and the quality of the product. Not the name.
GM could call it a POS and I’d buy one if it looked good had the right features and quality.
All that names do is attract or repel potential buyers. Die hard GM fans are attracted to old names. The rest of the non GM people who might consider GM products are sometimes repelled by the names (though I suspect more so by the cars and their lackluster performance and features as compared to foreign competitors).
Sure few foreign cars have the torque or V8 Muscle that Pontiac has but many of the crowd GM needs to win back aren’t worried about that kind of stuff.
Do whatever you want with the names.. but a name that clearly shows where products fall in the lineup is what matters. More so then legendary names with meaning to mostly older demographics. GM needs to capture the 20’s to 30’s market. Many of these people aren’t into classic car names (some are though).
the G series names gave a clear lineup. Just as many other manufacturers use a number to indicate this.
“Cars like the Aurora were among the best cars on the market, best ride, best interior, best engine, an d so on. The Aurora has earned its place as a contemporary GM classic. The Aurora was buy itself. The G6 was buy itself for a while.”
Best ride? Best interior? Best Engine?? After owning an Aurora I can’t agree with you. The ride was mediocre, handling sub par, curb weight huge, and interior lacked quality but did have style. Additionally our Aurora was plagued with electrical problems such as modules not working. Additionally the engine performance was OK, nothing spectacular though. The seats weren’t bad though. Just the rest of the interior felt cheap and hollow and plasticy.
The Intrigue is a bit younger of a car. The 3.5 DOHC (not SOHC) performed well.
You are 100% right I don’t want a Chevy no matter what the name. A Chevy truck is the only thing I’d buy.
A Buick version of the G8 would catch my interest. But with the LaCrosse why make another large car?
Replace Chevy and Pontiac with Olds… ok I’ll bite.
Sorry I’d much rather a Buick then an Olds. Or an Opel over both.
Buick is a nice comfortable car and unless you’ve driven one you don’t get it. Buicks CAN be performance cars if GM were to make them that way just as they did with Caddy.
Perhaps though Olds wouldn’t be bad… a good differentiation from Chevy and Caddy… But who will make the sleek smooth lines that GM can’t seem to get right that GM needs to compete with Lexus and the like?
The Aurora is a Northstar Based engine…..
I say ax all the names and start new. Put this argument to bed, build a great car with a great name, great emblem and start a new legacy. This is the only way to appease all GM fans and all GM potential customers.
Edwin,
Some good ideas with regards to Oldsmobile as a brand, that has been posted many times here on GM Blogs by a variety of different people and it really does make sense. I just think from a managerial perspective GM is trying to spend as litle money as possible to turn their business around, so i dont see them pursuing this plan even if it makes sense and could regain their customer base.
The cost to re-brand dealerships, vehicles, create a new line up and advertising would just be too much for GM and their management to handle at their current juncture
Oldsmobile could be both sport, luxury, economy, and an everything to everyone brand but seen in a different light than that of chevrolet.
GM could make Buick into a similar brand for the time being. bring mid-market luxury, excellent styling, and sport-luxury to this brand. Buick will most likely become aligned with Opel Europe and some holden vehicles could concievably go to the Buick line. Even though this brand seems to be tarnished by some, GM will spend the money neccesary to reinvigorate and reinvent this stories brand.
Even though you brought up good ideas, I dont see it becoming a reality to bring back the Oldsmobile brand anytime in the near future. after their restructuring is settled and if sales dont materialize for Buick, it could be an option that they will rebrand their entire Buick network as Oldsmobile.
I am confused as to why a good seller like Saturn is to be dropped. I would think if you want to stay a viable company you should drop the divisions that don’t sell. There are a lot of Saturns on the road, but buicks? I thought Pontiac was still a strong seller, too. It just doesn’t make sense to me.
“We’re asking GM please do this for us, make Oldsmobile the main car brand instead of Buick for North America, if we have to pick one, we will pick Oldsmobile.”
This does make a lot of sense. For all intents and purposes, in North America Buick is a “damaged brand.” I’m sure you are hanging on to Buick because of China, but you can still sell Buicks in China even though not in NA.
Reviving Oldsmobile — and making it your main brand — would give you a chance to make a fresh start with North Americans. Leave the baggage of all the damaged brands and perceptions behind you and start anew.
Build a marketing campaign around, “We’ve learned our lesson America.”
Chiefpontiac,
The 10 million figure is the annual SAAR for the US industry, not a target for GM global sales. They are assuming a market share within that 10 million units, which probably would be around 20% (too high in my estimation). Therefore, GM would be assuming that it needs to sell about 2 million vehicles in the US to break even.
Keep the G8 as a Chevy!!! Do not let this awesome iconic American Muscle car die!!! This car could easily live on as a Chevy product. It does in other parts of the world!!! Anyone reading this Blog should sing a petition to keep Pontiac or some it’s products that are not found as other models at other GM brands in the same form (A.K.A. Badge Engineered). The G8 should live!!! Everybody visit this site to sign the “Save Pontiac” Petition! Give your comments to save this awesome car as a Chevy or whatever you feel it should be. Let the Car buying Public and Car enthusiasts speak! Let it be heard that we want cars that stir the soul and that cars like this shouldn’t completely die! Let GM here us!
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/4/save-pontiac-gms-true-performance-division
If you don’t believe me read for yourself on Edmunds Insideline’s own Blog to see the words of the car buying public regarding their opinion abotu this car!
http://blogs.edmunds.com/straightline/2009/04/should-the-g8-become-the-chevy-camaro-ss-sedan-.html
chiefpontiac,
“Sales in NA for 2008
Pontiac 382,949
Saturn 206,733
Cadillac 170,481
Buick 154,275″
To add on to Jeff’s response, your data doesn’t include global sales for those brands. Although I am saddened with the news of Pontiac, keep in mind that Buick’s global stance is much stronger. There may be other reasons too but this is an example of added information needed to make such difficult business decisions. Yes, North America is a large auto market but it’s not the only market.
Just found this article: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-04/28/content_11273506.htm
My proposals: Introduce the Chevy Lumina (see GM Arabia) on the US- and European markets, whereas in Europe this model would boost the reputation of the Chevrolet brand. Then, also bring the Holden Statesman to Europe, let’s say as a late successor for the Opel Senator. This would enable Opel to offer a serious competitor to the VW Phaeton without too high costs and risk. Since the Holden Statesman already is built with left hand steering wheel, as the Chevrolet Caprice (also see GM Arabia), this appears feasible to me as well. IMHO Holden belongs to the most valuable assets GM has and now deserves to get any support to equalize the loss of future G8-sales.
Well, I guess the GM as we know it is gonna be gone. I don’t care what brand is being dumped or which ones are kept. I have been a loyal GM buyer my whole life. Right now I have a Grand Am GT, Impala, and 2500HD. I will refuse to patronize GM any longer if they allow the gov’t to hold a majority stake. They can’t run themselves, how are they gonna run a car co. which they haven’t the foggiest idea how too? They can’t keep borrowing money from the gov’t just to pay bills. GM needs to actually sell vehicles to make money, not keep holding their hand out. People I know recently tried to buy new cars and a truck, and the dealer just won’t deal, so they gave up trying to buy new. Instead they are buying used out of the newspapers. I guess when the “car czars” get finished, we’ll be driving, or pedaling our new GM vehicles. Guess Ford will get my business in the future, as they are smart enough to stay away from the “bail-outs”. So long GM.
Alex D,
You are right from a cost standpoint they are better off building Buick up like they did with Cadillac.
Rose,
My opinion is that I think in some regard the intent of Saturn has been lost. Saturn is no longer an economy car seller. They don’t make small, affordable cars with features people needing basic cars want (like plastic body panels). Saturn has been migrated to make cars like every other GM division (or so it seems). If GM is going to Do that there is no reason for Saturn. However I think Saturn has a better image then Chevy (at least to me). At very least they should keep the Saturn Logo it looks decent compared to others.
Hank Jedburgh,
Buick is not totally damaged. Buick fans know they are good cars with nice appointments. If GM fixes the styling and addresses a few other things they can sell as well as Lexus (ok well almost). In my opinion all they need is a smaller version of the LaCrosse… something about G6 sized with Buick interior.
If you want a fresh start drop all But Cadillac, spin Corvette off as its own brand. Olds isn’t a fresh start its an old name that people know and are going to expect historic names and the like which won’t help build it a NEW image.GM needs to make another Saturn like concept except market it toward Toyota, Honda and Lexus buyers.
In order to start A new a totally new brand with a new name and a new way of doing business is needed. In order to do that GM must cut ties with the past models and concepts. Olds might be an ok name but people know its history. Look at the way other brands have done that… Toyota with Lexus, Honda with Acura, Nissan with Infiniti, and Toyota also with Scion etc…
What GM needs is a Genesis car. A reboot of their car making machine with a new inspiring awesome sounding name with an appropriately awesome looking logo.
If GM brought back Oldsmobile they would see a sales increase. I recently spoke with another Olds owner from the mid west (Iive in New England) and he said he is keeping his 95 88 Royale as long as he can, because Oldsmobiles are the best products from GM. I’m doing the same with my 01 Aurora. I’ll never understand how Pontiac/Buick/Saturn/ETC outlived Oldsmobile! Olds has the luxury heritage of Buick, Performance heritage of Pontiac, and the value heritage of Saturn. Wake up GM and bring back the brand! Chevrolet/Oldsmobile/Cadillac is all you need to survive.
I don’t understand why GM has to phase out Pontiac, why can’t you phase out Buick & G M C brands,Pontiac is a far better vehicle IMO, besides if you really do your homework most Buick’s are driven by Senior citizen’s,G M C is really a Chevrolet without the Chevy logo. Pontiac is more for the younger generation’s who want car’s like the Grand Prix, Firebirds, G TO (which should still be put into production IMO) I think is was a mistake to stop producing the Oldsmobile( mainly the Cutlass),
IMO GM was on the right track when the brought back the G T O, but instead GM listen to a bunch of idiot’s you criticized the G T O (there not enough truck space, in hard to get in & out of the back seat,
it does look sporty enough to be a muscle car) well all I can say the G T O IMO is one slick looking car it’ is IMO the perfect car for a single person like myself plenty of HP, gas mileage for this type of vehicle is good
Here’s more proof of how this car is revered at thecarconnection.com. Check out this article “Police Found Guilty Of Loving The Pontiac G8.” Here’s another opportunity for GM to capitalize on it’s heritage and enthusiast following.
http://blogs.thecarconnection.com/marty-blog/1020339_police-found-guilty-of-loving-the-pontiac-g8
Leave it to GM to screw Pontiac over….again! The Pontiac brand was threatened with ending in the early 1960’s, and if not for John DeLorean and his designs, probably would have. Fast forward to 1984, and the Fiero. Here was a completely new design, good looks, affordable by almost anyone, and popular. What did GM do, hamstring performanceand handling so that it wouldn’t hurt Corvette sales. Eventually, GM killed the Fiero because the handling and performance of newer prototypes did beat the Corvette. Now fast forward to today…..Killing Pontiac will wipe out two popular nameplates, Solstice and G6. G8 might be included alson, but it hasn’t had the time to get popular. Iknow what you say about Buick being popular in China, but here it is redundant, boring luxury car. If you want luxury, keep Cadillac. Chevrolet’s styling is outright dull (except Corvette and Camaro, neither of which is affordable by the average Joe), and Cadillac is only affordable by the rich. Pontiac gave the average Joe a snazzy looking car at affordable prices. I can only hope that some entrepeneur will buy both Pontiac and Saturn, open non-union factories for them in the South, and beat the living daylights out of GM in the marketplace. Then these executive idiot like Fritz Henderson and Bob Lutz (the Klutz) will understand.
Rose,
Many people speak without knowing the company or nature of the type of restructuring GM is currently undertaking. Yes, there are many saturn vehicles on the road, the company has been around for over 20 years and started off as a concept to offer a different kind of car and experience.
It cost somehwere around $5 billion dollars just to create this division back in 1982 and they havent been turning a profit ever since. it is one thing to sell cars and turn a profit, it is another to sell vehicles at a loss. their entire lineup over the past 3 years has been drastically overhauled with new stylish product and advertising yet the sales never materialized. we could blame it on a variety of things but many believe it was just a brand that was too tarnished with too many changes to their way of operating over the years.
GM does not have the time or money to reinvent this brand. Buick sales contrary to many posts who says no one buys them, theyre targeted toward an older segment, has not seen their new vehicles, planned vehicles, or sales reports. Buick sells nearly as many vehicles as Pontiac but does so with only three models, while Pontiac currently has 9 vehicles.
Buick could fill the gap of Pontiac by offering a few sport luxury models. as the market and landscape change many of the brands we were used to from years ago will be gone, that is just a reality.
It also is a benefit from a competitive standpoint because you are taking the cannibalization and duplication out of the market, this helps not only GM but customers too. better product, more focused product, and not bland rebadges will become a renewed focus.
the news announced was neccesary and Saturn might still live in in a different format through a buyout being orchestrated by private equity and saturn dealers. the measures announced to close Hummer,Saab,Pontiac were all neccesary as the sales for these brands continue to erode at a fast pace and the business case for keeping these stable of brands dries up. we can blame this on nearly anything, but the truth is that the company NEEDS and not wants to make the changes that have been recently announced.
After GM “Cleans House” it will be able to go brand by brand and chart a course of action for the next five years in terms of advertising,product, sales mix, and success strategy. right now is the deconstruction phase before they begin the task of rebuilding. the company will be stronger, more focused and better able to manage and handle their business.
By drastically slashing unprofitable divisions and reducing management duplication they can better manage their businesses, take advantage of the market, and grow their core business. everyone should give these plans time to work out.
To the GM critics: Toyota isn’t changing names, Honda isn’t changing names. GM critics often Dont’ know what they are talking about, so don’t take them seriously.
GM has an excellent heritage and its brands, classic models and names are adored by millions upon millions of car customers who want and hope for GM to succeed. Oldsmobile has earned a luxury/sport/quality reputation which takes years to build. That is a firm foundation upon which to make a fresh start.
Oldsmobile has strong cross brand appeal with GM’s core customer. Oldsmobile is tremendous brand. The Aurora is an awesome car. Just think, if GM could focus its marketing on a great line of Olds cars and SUVs, sales and profits would soar.
What GM critics and competitors fear most is a sharp Cutlass Supreme that is well marketed and can sell millions of cars. This frightens the GM’s foriegn competition.
GM enthusiasts KNOW that a sharp well marketed Cutlass Supreme can topple a Camry or Accord. We’ve known it for quite some time. What the Malibu is doing, Olds Cutlass can to 5 times more.
I strongly believe that Oldsmobile is the brand over Buick that can do this. Oldsmobile appeals to both Pontiac and Buick buyers, however, Pontiac and Olds buyers are reluctant on Buick because of its being called an ‘older persons car’. A sharp Buick Riviera sedan/coupe or sharp Toronado sedan/coupe both have cross brand appeal, but in total the Oldsmobile brand offers more for both Buick, Pontiac, and all GM customers in general. Oldmobile gives Chevy customers something to look up to.
Oldsmobile’s has all the appeal of a superior car brand: Luxury, Sport, Quality, Ride, Reliability, Durability, and has a strong racing heritage. I would like to see all three (Pontiac, Oldsmobile, and Buick), but if I had to choose one to lead GM to success, I would choose Oldsmobile for North America.
My suggestion for a line-up about is just a sample of the excitement that can be offered with Oldsmobile. Names like the Aurora, Delta, Cutlass Supreme, and Alero. The Rocket, the 442, the Star, the Starfire, and so on. Oldsmobile truly excites GM enthusiasts. A sharp Cutlass Supreme, with a highly focused marketing buy itself could topple the Camry and Accord. Let’s hope GM is listening.
A decision to offer Oldsmobile as the brand over Buick for North America would show GM’s committment to and passion for its customers. It would show that GM management is leading and not conceding. Canceling Pontiac makes management look like the are conceding instead of leading. Offering Oldsmobile would show their Leadeship.
Nevertheless, we are behind Fritz Henderson all the way.
Just do a lot of praying.
—————————————-
Alex D.
GM can succeed beyond expectations. Here’s a rough estimate of the top of my head:
The govt’s 310,000,000 shares @ $90 would be worth about 28 billion, assuming the gov’t sells before 2012 election. If the gov’t forgoes 50 percent of the loan repayments, it would still profit by $14 billion.
The UAW would rer about $ 2.8 billion plus 10% common stock valued at $1.80, which would be about 61,111,111 shares. At $90, their $110,000,000 in stock would be worth about $5.5 Bilion. Thus bond holders recover over $8.3 plus any dividends. That’s an ok deal. 8.3/28= 30 cents on the dollar.
In 1999, GM stock traded $70-$93. With the deal it could grow well beyond that.
TYPO fix:
Alex D.
GM can succeed beyond expectations. Here’s a rough estimate of the top of my head:
The government’s 310,000,000 shares @ $90 would be worth about 28 billion, assuming the government sells off its shares before 2012 election. If the gov’t forgoes 50 percent of the loan repayments, it would still profit by $14 billion. ( The government breaks even at $45/per share).
The UAW would recieve about 238 333 333 shares at $1.80 or $429,000,000. At $90 UAW would recover $21,449,999,970 placing the UAW health care fund in a $11,449,999,970 surplus. (The UAW can fully fund its VEBA at $45/share.
Bondholders receive ten cents on the dollar or about $ 2.8 billion plus 10% common stock valued at $1.80, which would be about 61,111,111 shares. At $90, their $110,000,000 in common stock would be worth about $5.5 Bilion. Thus bond holders recover over $8.3 plus any dividends. That’s an ok deal. 8.3/28= 30 cents on the dollar.
In 1999 GM stock traded around $80. With the deal in place GM stock could grow well beyond that.
Dazed:
The G8 does not get better mileage than the new Lacrosse. V6 G8 is rated at 17/25 vs 18/27 for base model lacrosse with more hp.
People need to understand that Buicks sell for more than Pontiacs which means Buick is probably close to profitable. On top of that, Buick doesn’t rely on fleet sales to the same degree as Pontiac. Sure, Pontiac sells more product but many of those units are sold to fleets. Buick’s lineup will grow in the future and it appears the Regal will return. Some are speculating that the Astra will be sold as a Buick which makes a lot of sense. There isn’t much outside of the G8 and Solstice that can’t be replaced by other GM products.
As Obama said tonight in his press conference, if GM survives this mess they will be in a great position to make some money and be successful. What GM needs more than anything is for the bad news to STOP and for auto sales to pick back up. FINALLY the President has come out and admitted to the media that GM has good product on the market. He focused on the economic and credit crisis that pushed GM to the bring instead of harping on bad decisions or a supposed commitment to gas guzzlers. Its time for the President and the media to get off GM’s back and stop damaging confidence in the company. The sooner that happens the sooner people can get back to only worrying about the product being offered.
I agree with the idea to keep the G8, badge it as a Chevrolet. Heck, why couldn’t you build the replacement STS/DTS on this platform? It’s larger than the CTS. This car is by far one of the best vehicles to have been offered in the U.S. from GM. To let such a great car die would be tragic. I think GM is trying to turn things around, and the products coming from GM lately sure have been leaps and bounds better than what was offered to us. What really irks me is that GM, to me at least, had lost touch of finding out what consumers want. Please, listen to your consumers, we know what we want. To me, it seems like you are too bureaucratic for your own good. Believe me when I say this, we are rooting for you, and you guys are right it’s time for a comeback.
Frank T,
I can’t agree with you. Also you must realize that the Olds products aren’t the same. GM can make them be whatever they want regardless of the name. What GM names and brands a car does not make it a good or bad car. I it part of the perception equation. All GM has to do is get the right perception with the right design (regardless of whether it is an Olds or not).
To think otherwise is foolish in my opinion.
Scott Endicott,
This is the exact problem people on this forum can’t agree. I think Buick is better then Pontiac. And I am part of the younger generation board with most of GM’s offerings. I guess POntiac wouldn’t so bad but they lacked interior options.
Robert Sprayberry,
What do you think of the Buick prototypes shown (Riviera) do you think these are dull? Buick can make exciting cars….
Alex D.
You are correct about Buick. However to throw a monkey wrench in everyone’s comments. What if GM simply took say a G8 and added a Buick Interior to it? That would be pretty nice…. they could do that through the whole line (badge engineering that no one wants to hear about). The point i to get cars out that have the features people want and the looks also.
I say GM needs a new brand to take over…. Buick Could do it but they will need a few higher performance cars that are small To compete with Lexus and the like.
I think this is a good time to revitalize the Buick brand right here in the U.S. since Pontiac will be going away.The suggestion that the Saturn Sky be rebranded as a Buick Wildcat is a good one especially if it is still a good selling product.Another one I would suggest would be to rebrand the Pontiac G6 or G8 into a new Buick Grand Sport albit with some minor restyling.This way at least some of work and time that went into some of these good cars does not have to be totally lost.
Alex D said “Buick sells nearly as many vehicles as Pontiac ”
This is not really true ..
Buick sold 7,369 units in March (down 40.2% since 2008) worse than industry average
Pontiac sold 17,583 units in March (down only 30.8%) better than industry average
Much more so than the demise of Pontiac, I am concerned at how GM is treating its employees and dealers, and I think this goes mainly on Obama’s plate. I respect the president, but it seems he’s insisting that GM be able to turn a profit in this severely depressed and unprecedented market, the same market where the mighty Honda and Toyota lost about a combined $10 billion in the last quarter! As a result, GM is setting loose its own grim reaper: brands, employees, dealers, everything must go.
My partner has been a loyal and dedicated GM employee for almost 20 years. He doesn’t make a lot of money, but as they say he “bleeds GM blue”, and hasn’t complained once when they’ve been removing 401K benefits, making him pay more toward the company car he needs to do his field job, and cutting his pay. He’s still got his job, but for how long? Even he doesn’t expect to make it through by the time all of this is over. Or take our Buick/Pontiac dealer in the next town over; they’ve had a steady but small-store business with GM for over 75 years! Most of that was Pontiac only, and they took on the Buick franchise a few years ago. Wanna bet they’re not on GM’s chopping block of dealer death? I’m expecting to see that store as vacant as the nearby Saturn store within the year.
Sure, they’re “saving GM.” But with all the wreckage left in that path, I think we’re starting to ask ourselves, “what GM are we saving, and why?” IMO, the government should have just tweaked the original survival plan a little, loaned GM the money it virtually owed them for all the anti-Detroit / pro-import policies it’s fostered for years, and helped them ride out this Great Recession. Instead, they and the media did their best to make a public embarrassment out of the whole industry in Washington on national television, fired a CEO, forced a deal with the devil (in the form of Fiat), killed sales even further with the constant talk of “bankruptcy”, and are now squeezing the life blood out of GM from behind the scenes. Meanwhile down in the America that hasn’t already drunk the Japanese Kool-Aid, we’re just holding on for dear life and with fading hopes.
Dazed,
Yes in total yearly sales it is true. Going by 2008 marketshare/sales Pontiac and Buick are almost even, and that is only for U.S. market share and does not account from the stellar results the past few years from Buick China. the brand is poised for growth and rebirth as the many previous posts have stated. it will start using global vehicle architecture and greatly improve and expand their product portfolio and target demographic. I would hope that Pontiac sales would be a bit better than Buick because Pontiac sells 9 models while Buick only sells 3 currently. that is a six vehicle difference. but Buick gets almost as much yearly volume as Pontiac yet has 6 less vehicles.
And just because pontiac sells a certain amount of vehicles does not mean they are profitable either. like I said before it is one thing to be a high volume seller but it doesnt make sense to be when you can not turn a profit with your products.
The g3 and G5 are abominal and only reason either of them would sell is due to their inexpensive price. the g6 line is aging and do for a remodel and solstice sales are begining to flatten out as the product ages and gets acclaimated to the market. seeing a brand that needs substaintial investment even though it will only be a 3-4 car niche brand did not make sense from any strategical standpoint. Buick will become worldwide sport/mid market luxury which will be a great benefit. the death of pontiac will allow GM to focus on that once they right size their business.
Nate,
I do not agree with the wholesale killing of the g8, GM would lose their engineering and marketing investment and end up costing their holden subsidiary over $1billion dollars. This car could with minor updates fit in the Buick line. I Believe the Solstice Coupe and Convertible could also with minor Buick upgrades fit into the new buick line. lets combine midmarket luxury with sport. those two cars mentioned would be the only reasons to save Pontiac as everything else like the G5,G3, and the aging G6 represent nothing of what the brand should stand for, and does not differentiate the brand enough from their competitors.
GMC/Buick as a combo will be able to survive without Pontiac and will be getting better support services and advertising. the plan to trim dealership headcount and redundancies also helps that as well. This is the route that the company is taking, we could hypothesize or say we dont agree but I think giving the plan time to work out would be the best best. there are about 3 different phases with the company restructuring. they currently are in a “clean house mode” getting rid of all profit draining businesses, redundant and low selling cars and brands, and getting rid of excess capacity in their factories.
Their next phase includes brand building. they will be seeking to launch new profitable vehicles for their four divisions, significantly simplified from their over 12 brands before this restructuring. Buick will become a full line offering different styling cues and features than that of Cadillac. you can even compare the lines of both Cadillac and Buick and see they cater to different tastes and segments. the styling of buick is much softer than current cadillac style and is tailored for people who desire less of an in your face and blocky vehicle.
GMC while many dont approve of it or say they just sell copies of Chevrolet actually sells extremely well. their new Acadia and upcoming Terrain are absolutely beautiful, well engineered vehciles that will undoubtedly bring sales and profits to the brand and company. The acadia and Terrain both look nothing like other vehicles chevrolet offers and the styling is more aggressive and tailors to a different segment of the truck and SUV buying public.
The combo of GMC/Buick will give people a myriad of options to choose from and most likely after walking through the door of one of the dealerships that the customer will walk out with purchasing one of the many stylish vehicles.
Saab,Hummer- these brands will probably be closed. GM has been extremely vague about options for the brands other than closure. it does seem to also make the most sense since it would take competition and cannibalization out of the U.S. and worldwide market.
Saturn- it is my belief that this brand will ultimately be shuttered by GM because the entire selling process of this brand will prove extremely stressful and a distraction that GM does not need at all. A full closure is to be expected by year end.
the four core strategy of brands will allow GM to expand 4 brands to markets worldwide. currently their only brand in some international markets is chevrolet, this does not utilize their brands to their full potential by any means. after the dust has settled i expect international sales expansion to be a key priority and will allow the company to use their brands to their full potential.
we are not all going to agree with all of the decisions made by the company, but this restructuring plan is the one they are folllowing. maybe in the future we can expect brand changes or the revival of oldsmobile instead of using the Buick moniker, but i believe the company can make their most recent restructuring work with most of the restructuring to be done by 2010 the latest. so over the next several months we will begin to get a picture of the new GM and if the entity will be viable or not.
“I think this is a good time to revitalize the Buick brand right here in the U.S.”
Buick as a brand is damaged beyond repair. Nothing in particular wrong with the cars, but the brand is unfixable.
Better to bring back Oldsmobile and start fresh instead of trying to revive a brand that has so much baggage. If even Tiger Woods couldn’t breathe hope into the Buick brand, what hope is there?
Try this simple test: When you hear someone say Buick, what’s the first thing that jumps into your mind?
I work for GM at the ex-Buick site in Flint. But own several Pontiacs. Buick is an Old Man’s car. Pontiac is a Young Person’s car. The future of General Motors is with Young People!!! Killing the Pontiac Division is the biggest of many recent mistakes. Where’s Bob Lutz when we need him????
S. Manwell,
I would consider a Buick GS if it was AWD and turbo (perhaps redoing a SAAB and adding a buick interior would do the trick?
Speaking of which I wonder what a Saab or G6 would be like with AWD, Direct injection and a turbo? That’d be one MEAN car. I’d buy one.
I personally think the interior of the G6 is lackluster.. ok but not sporty or modern enough. the Lacrosse and CTS are a bitmore on par.. though a G8 interior with a few adjustments would be awesome.
Bob L.
The market is changing and changes need to be made. Profitability is one of them. Units sold is the other.
I disagree with you. What GM indeed is the question I ask then and now… the market has changed and so has GM its not the company it used to be. A tweaked survival plan wouldn’t have worked. GM was blind to the change in economy and market. Even Toyota was caught off guard. But that doesn’t excuse either company from not forecasting better.
Unlike everyone else I think a better GM will emerge from this mess. One that is cognsant of consumer trends, wants and needs and one that is better able to produce competing products but pooling resources in a better way. Why spend X dollars on 4 models when you can spend the same X dollars on one or two models and end up with better products with more diverse options which will attract more customers and give a great reputation to the company.
I think people are hang on to the old and having trouble with the new. Not surprising. The thing that gets me is that GM could have competed with the Japanese but they for some reason didn’t.
I don’t think a revitalized Buick and Cadillac as well as Chevy is a bad thing. They are the brands that can have the most valid images made for them. Even cars like Mazda offer nicer interiors then many pontiac and chevy have produced in the past few years. And Mazda to me is the pontiac alternative (as is Subaru). Buick sophistication with pontiac sportiness is a great idea when you look at the present market. This may not ALWAYS be the case but right now it is.
G M has experienced poor management for years. Still, some of your current cars are superior. At the recent auto show I looked at the new Chevrolet Camero and Buick LaCrosse. They are really nice. So is the Cadillac CTS. But, I will not be anything from you as long as you are going to government owned and controlled.
Nate,
I never said Buick was dull, just boring. Also, how many how many prototype or show cars actually make it to production unaltered- very few.
I guess the main thing I didn’t state about Buick is that the average Joe can’t afford them.
I’m a nuclear medicine technologist and if given the choice between a Buick Lacrosse and Chevy Impala, I’ll take the Impala and pocket the extra $5000 I would have spent on the Lacrosse. I would have chose the Pontiac Grand Prix, but it will be extinct soon.
Also after thinking more about it, I agree with earlier comments about the stupidity of GM execs doing away with the Pontiac car brand names and substituting an alphanumeric naming system.
This had been tried before in the 1980’s with disasterous results (remember the J2000, 6000, and T1000). If they had stuck with tried and true names like Bonneville, Gand Prix, Grand Am, Catalina, Tempest, Ventura, and Firebird/Trans-Am, Buick would be on the block instead of Pontiac.
“When you hear someone say Buick, what’s the first thing that jumps into your mind?”
Some old retired couple in South Florida driving to an early-bird dinner special.
I am so disappointed with GM and their “brand and nameplate rationalization” program. Pontiac. You killed Pontiac!
Do you have any idea what you just did to your reputation among us car enthusiast who love Pontiac? I am (was) a Pontiac brand loyalist for automobiles. Sure, I have a Chevy truck, but I do not like Chevy cars (besides the Corvette which is out of my price range). Pontiac was different and matched what I liked.
What options do I have now? Chrysler? Maybe Ford will have something for me. (Wow, it hurts to say that…..)
You ran the “Performance Brand” into the ground with crap like the Aztek and the G3, so you deserve what you had coming. Such as shame that the wonderful G8 won’t live on.
I think that axing the Pontiac dealers and making Pontiac a nameplate (currently with just the Solstice and the G8) sold at other brand dealerships would have been the smartest thing to do. Instead you have tarnished your image in my eyes forever.
Reasons to support the GM bond holder’s alternative proposal:
1. No government control of GM
2. GM sales would rebound faster without government entanglements.
3. Less disruption of supply chain, no protracted legal battles, no government takeovers, etc.
4. Stock price potential is higher without government ownership.
5. Quick out of court settlement.
6 $37 billion in debt reduction.
7. Major reduction in structural costs.
Comparison
Bond holder’s alternative proposal:
58% equity for bond holders: 354 million shares @ $76 = $ 27 billion
41% equity for UAW: 251 million shares @ $76 = 19 billion
Results: Bond holders break even @ $76/share (Bond holders get 51 cents/share @ $40/share).
UAW generates $9 billion VEBA surplus @ $76/share (UAW breaks even at $40/share).
Bondholders retire most of the $27 billion in GM debt to zero.
UAW reduces GM debt by $10 billion (half of the VEBA payment).
Government is paid in full for its TARP loans probably by 2014.
Results: Total GM debt reduction: $27 b + $10 b = $ 37 billion
Government breaks even at any stock price since its paid off in full. Government potentially saves $10 billion under the bond holder’s proposal.
Government proposal
51% equity for U.S. Government: 310 million shares @ $76 = $24 billion
39% equity for UAW: 238 million shares @ $76 = $18 billion
10% equity for bond holders: 61 million shares @ $76 = $ 4.6 b + $2.7 b = 7.3 (27 cents on the dollar).
UAW generates an $8 billion VEBA surplus @ $76/share.
Bondholders retire $24 b in GM debt.
Government forgives $10 billion in TARP loans.
Bond holders retire $ 24 b in GM debt
UAW reduces GM debt by $10 b.
Government forgoes $10 b in GM debt.
Total GM debt reduction: $ 44 billion.
Government risks/spends an extra $10 billion under the government’s own plan.
Government breaks even at $43/share.
Ask your Senator/Representative to support the GM bond holder proposal.
Regarding models and channels:
I expect there to be a significant change in not only the number of dealerships but the channel network that supplies them.
It looks like there will be three channels. One channel has Chevrolet, one has Cadillac, the other has GMC and Buick. The Chevrolet channel looks good. It has something for nearly everybody. They have small, mid ,and large but not luxurious cars, trucks, and Corvette. The Cadillac channel has … well … Cadillacs. That’s okay, Cadillac is supposed to be something better and different. The Buick/GMC channel looks to be awfully limited. If I had an interest in a Buick/GMC dealership I think I’d be worried, having only trucks and aspirational cars for sale.
Consider these changes:
Change the franchise agreements (yeah, that won’t be easy) to allow any franchise to carry any vehicle from Chevrolet, GMC, and Buick. Make that one channel. Cadillac will continue to be a channel unto itself. That reduces the channels from three to two.
Move the Sky or Solstice to Chevrolet, the full line mass market nameplate.
Move the Corvette to Cadillac where the premium vehicles belong.
Next, drop the Chevrolet trucks but keep the name “Silverado” as a trim level of the new and expandable GMC line. Keep the medium duty GMC trucks (TopKick, T-series, and W-series) to back up the “Professional Grade” claim that I believe still has legs.
Adjust the Buick brands to be aspirationally better than their Chevrolet sales floor stablemates.
Then you’ll have two channels. The one with Chevy, Buick, GMC will have cars from entry level to near luxury and trucks for every purpose less than heavy duty. The one with Cadillac will have GMs best-in-class cars. There will be only three advertising campaigns (Cars, Trucks, and Cadillacs). Looks like a very simple structure to me. It would take more time and money than GM has right now, but I think it would be a good place to begin rebuilding.
What do you think?
Best wishes,
Val
We hope GM does the right thing and lets Oldsmobile lead GM to car revival.
Hank Jedburgh wrote:
Better to bring back Oldsmobile and start fresh instead of trying to revive a brand that has so much baggage. If even Tiger Woods couldn’t breathe hope into the Buick brand, what hope is there?
Jeanne R. Lynch wrote:
I am very displeased at the plans to ax the Pontiac line. I have been a loyal GM customer and bought several GM cars in the last 20 years. The Oldsmobile Intrigue was a terrific car, but you decided to stop producing that model and the entire Oldsmobile line.
Even Nate added:
The Intrigue is a bit younger of a car. The 3.5 DOHC (not SOHC) performed well.
You are 100% right I don’t want a Chevy no matter what the name. A Chevy truck is the only thing I’d buy. A Buick version of the G8 would catch my interest. But with the LaCrosse why make another large car? Replace Chevy and Pontiac with Olds… ok I’ll bite. . . .
Nate stated he had owned an Aurora and that he liked the LaCrosse.
Alex D. wrote:
Some good ideas with regards to Oldsmobile as a brand, that has been posted many times here on GM Blogs by a variety of different people and it really does make sense. I just think from a managerial perspective GM is trying to spend as litle money as possible to turn their business around, so i dont see them pursuing this plan even if it makes sense and could regain their customer base. The cost to re-brand dealerships, vehicles, create a new line up and advertising would just be too much for GM and their management to handle at their current juncture Oldsmobile could be both sport, luxury, economy, and an everything to everyone brand but seen in a different light than that of chevrolet.
I like the 08 LaCrosse Super engine wise, interior wise, and front end wise. The tail lights and the stubby rear end are less appealing. I like the rear profile of the Lucerne, but the headlights are too big for the tail lights. The Enclave is strong. The 66-67 Riviera style, the 80s Regal Grand National Buick, and the Park Avenue bolster Buick. It is possible for Buick to rise with sharp styles.
GM is still better off with well styled classic names like Toronado, Cutlass Supreme, GTO, and Riviera.
However, we are discussing excelling in the car market with the best in North America. Oldsmobile embodies all aspects to lead a car revival for GM – it would lure both Pontiac and Buick buyers into ONE FOLD. Yes, as a brand, Olds has it all: Luxury appeal, sport, racing heritage, technological prowess, quality, durability, inspirational design, intriguing allure, and much more. Oldsmobile has high CROSS BRAND APPEAL that lures Pontiac and Buick buyers alike. Olds styling can lure conquest sales as well, the Aurora turns heads and still does – the 66-67 Toronado commands the respect of the automotive world. Yet, Olds didn’t have much marketing budget in the 1990s and 2000s. Besides the styling mistake on the 1990s Cutlass Supreme from the 80s best seller, GM discontinued a best selling Olds Delta 88. GM enthusiasts were inspired by the Aurora. GM’s investment in Olds luxury sport has earned the enthusiast enduring respect for Olds. With a focused, well marketed Olds, GM can lead the car market once again. Olds gives Chevy owners something to look up to.
Example of Olds magnificent names upon which to create a stunning well marketed car line:
Toronado sedan (yes a sporty sedan)
Trofeo coupe
Aurora 442 (it would sell)
Cutlass Supreme
Delta
Intrigue
Starfire
Star 442
Alero
Rocket
Aerotech (great name for a Firebird like sports car)
442
Bravada (perfect for today’s AWD trend)
High schoolers today like Olds. Its not uncommon to see them driving Intrigues, when they can get one.
As a full line Olds would shine. Olds logos like the Aurora swoosh are very clever. Olds even be a four letter logo where Buick has five. Olds inspired young and old alike, the tech saavy and the traditional, the sport and luxury for which American car buyers yearn. Olds is winner. And we want it to lead.
If we have to choose one, please make Oldsmobile the brand.
BobL:
A lot of what you are saying makes sense. The government’s demands are a little over the top because no automaker can really be profitable in this environment. Honda lost more money than Ford last quarter in spite of all their fuel efficient models. Toyota is poised to post a bigger loss than Ford and Honda by a large margin due to the market and their dependence on trucks and SUVs. How can the government expect GM to be profitable at 10M units when the US has averaged 16M units for the past 10 years or so? That is illogical, especially when GM’s supposedly leaner competitors (Ford, Toyota, NIssan) cannot make money in this environment. The government is forcing GM to strip away many of its workers and future model plans and it may come back to hurt the company when the economy picks up. Once sales rebound GM may not have the people it needs to ramp up new product development and production. If that be the case the competition will benefit and GM will fall behind in sales volume. I think the plan submitted in February was sufficient and GM would’ve been profitable with 12M-13M sales which we may see by 2010 or 2011. Even Ford is saying they don’t plan to turn a profit until 2011 in spite of the fact that they have made drastic cuts and negotiated reduction in debt.
DaveC:
The government will get out when GM’s stock is worth something and they can recoup their investment. Not buying a GM model due to the government’s stake in the company will not help GM free itself of the government. Your philosophy will only help prolong the involvement of the Treasury. I say if you like the product you should by it regardless of who owns GM stock.
“Saturn- it is my belief that this brand will ultimately be shuttered by GM because the entire selling process of this brand will prove extremely stressful and a distraction that GM does not need at all…”
Good point Alex. Who would buy Saturn? If it is a viable brand that someone can profit from, why wouldn’t GM want to keep it? After all, it gives them a means to market their excellent Opel Euro-cars in the U.S.
If it is a broken brand with no future, who does GM expect would buy it? (Perhaps an Indian or Chinese company that wants to get a toe-hold in the U.S. auto market, but that would only be added competition GM doesn’t need.)
After starting with such promise and a brilliant concept, it’s unfortunate the way GM mishandled Saturn.
“Move the Corvette to Cadillac where the premium vehicles belong. “
Negative.
But please stop branding Corvette as a Chevrolet. Instead, just call it the General Motors Corvette. No one thinks of it as being a Chevy anyway.
Do the same with the Volt. Not the Chevrolet Volt, but the GM Volt. And then let all GM dealers have a crack at selling it. Also considering allowing people to order the GM Volt on the Internet, with delivery and prep to be done at the nearest GM dealer.
Edwin,
Starting to build some momentum now. Here’s a likely structure for the new GM:
Chevrolet ~ Cars, vans, station wagons, SUVs, and CUVs only. Primary demographic: Blue-collar, working-class, farming community, young singles and starting families. Takes over Vibe from Pontiac.
Oldsmobile ~ Markets same type of vehicles as Chevy, but for an upwardly mobile, wealthier demographic.
GMC ~ Markets all of GM’s trucks, including commercial-grade; heavy step-vans, delivery trucks, etc.
Cadillac ~ GM’s luxury brand for the upscale demo.
Corvette and Volt to be marketed as General Motors products and not specifically aligned with any of the car divisions/badges above. (After all, does anyone ever say they own a Chevy Corvette? No, it’s just, “I own a Corvette.”)
Billy Joe Halston,
When I think Chevy, Pontiac, or Olds I think of cheap junk. When I hear Buick or Cadillac I think about a car worth buying with decent interior and quality.
Jim Evans,
Do you really think GM isn’t going to bring something back that you like? Secondly why not get a Pontiac now? I’m sure GM would be delighted to sell you one of their current cars….
I think once GM brings out a line of Buicks that fills the gaps between old people car and young car (like they did with the CTS) you’ll find something GM makes that you like.
What about Saab? They have a sporty car… if the price were a bit lower it’d be a step up from Pontiac. And as a Buick it’s be a much nicer car inside…..
How do you know the G8 won’t be come the next Buick Grand National?
Why can’t GM rebrand the Pontiac Solstice (Buick Roadster), Saturn Sky (Cadillac), and Make the G8 a grand national. If that is ALL they change will the name really bug you that much?
Val,
Why not Drop GMC and move the missing GMC line to Buick? that is what 2 or 3 cars? Sell Buick and Cadillac together as GM’s mid and high end… or heck toss it in with Chevy and have the whole line there. Three brands makes a LOT of sense.
Gm has a few nice small cars like the Saab 9-3 that could be made into Buicks. I agree there is a gap with smaller cars. Where is a smaller version of the CTS?
Edwin,
Sorry to say Olds is dead. Buick is the new Olds.
You are right I have driven an Aura with a V8 in it… it wasn’t bad but the Intrigue was more fun to drive… if only that interior wasn’t so noisy and the plastic not so cheap… and if the transmission hadn’t lost overdrive at 75K miles.
I think Buick can work if they bring some of that Cadillac youth and Olds youth to their designs (like the China prototypes)… People will buy them. Heck even a Redone Saab 9-3 Turbo with a buick interior would be awesome.
Irony, I find the backend of the new LaCrosse very nice and think the front needs work…. For fun I did a superposition of the buick emblem on the Opel Insignia and think the insignia grill looks better then the LaCrosse one (thats a hint to change it GM). I just wish the LaCrosse was the size of the Insignia… to bad they can’t bring that over here as a smaller model Buick.
If it were only a smaller car….. perhaps slightly bigger then the G6. (or the size of the Saab 9-3).
I suppose I have a soft spot with the Cutlass name. I remember the 1990 Cutlass Supreme International which was my first car. It had a fully digital dash, digital trip computer, auto A/C controls and steering wheel controls. Pneumatic seats that could grip you as tight as a racing seat, wide tires that made it handle pretty damn well and a fun engine. If I could find a car like it and re-engine it, and bring the interior back to life I would in a heart beat. No matter how sophisticated the new old style gauges are I will always like the Digital dash of that car better. The car really was a sporty car hidden in nice style.
I think the Opel name could pull it off as well….
Styling mistake on the 1990 Cutlass Supremes? What on earth are you talking about?
The Aurora is old tech now… well outdone by the 3.5 V6, 3.6L DOHC CTS engine….and the Northstar is outdone by the new direct injection small block V8…. there is no need for that engine when a SBC has VVT and DI.
Olds could pull it off but so could Opel…. I vote Opel..
Sheth,
I think anyone that expects 10M units to be sold a year at this point is out to lunch. maybe 5-7 million but not 10. GM needs to scale back, sell everything they put out the door and then start ramping back up in a year or two or 5 or 10.
To do that they need less brands, and to focus resources on fewer cars to make them marketable and better.
Gunnar Schönweiß
Why not move those cars to Buick and Caddy? Imagine the Astra as a Caddy? and the Insignia as a small Buick….orrrr… how about selling Opels directly.
Saturn was a great idea in the day but it needs to be revised and revamped… it lost its focus…
Are you suprised GM mishandled Saturn?
If the Saturn concept was applied to all GM’s maybe GM would be doing better.
“….orrrr… how about selling Opels directly.”
Certainly, that idea has some merit. I for one have always been surprised GM hasn’t marketed Opel in North America as their Euro-car — the car with legendary German engineering, tight European handling, Old-World craftsmanship, etc.
Handled correctly, GM could certainly give Acura and Lexus a run for their money with Opel.
“Are you surprised GM mishandled Saturn?”
Not at all. Saturn started as a great concept, but was far too progressive an idea for GM’s sclerotic-style of management. GM would have been served better had the split Saturn off completely from the main company and given its hard-charging, young tigers free rein to run it as they saw fit. If corporate GM had kept their hands off the original concept, by now, it could have been the equal of Toyota and Honda, with several Saturn factories spread across the Southern states.
Apparently the entrenched engineers, bean counters and “suits” at GM HQ all despised the Saturn idea as too radical, and the UAW was also never fully on board. Too bad though. Now we’ve got VW building a new one-billion assembly plant in Chattanooga, and GM killing the Saturn brand. It could well have been Saturn building a new assembly plant in Chattanooga.
The only thing I ever disliked about Saturn was the name. I think they could have done better with that, but there is little question the original concept was brilliant. Perhaps too brilliant for a manufacturing company with old-style, many-layered management such as GM.
Edwin, you said
“To the GM critics: Toyota isn’t changing names, Honda isn’t changing names. GM critics often Dont’ know what they are talking about, so don’t take them seriously. ”
Funny. That’s what people said to GM critics circa 1973. When they laughed at Toyota and Honda. When people said Japan would never and could never compete with Detroit iron.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Anyone laughing at Toyota and Honda now? Didn’t think so.
Hank Jedburgh,
Let’s hope they are listening.
Chevrolet
Oldsmobile
Cadillac
GMC -
It is possible once Oldsmoble is in motion begin transfering some GMC names to Olds such as Olds Denali and allow Chevy to market its own trucks. This could streamline marketing costs further and focus. Olds carries the allure of luxury, durability, sport so an Olds Denali could be great. GMC could be retained for commercial vehicles. Either way, I believe Oldsmobile is the right direction for a fresh start for the BPG dealer network.
Chevy would want to retain the Corvette of course. That would give Olds an opportunity to have a sports car of its own. A unique sports car brings them to the show rooms. I believe that Cadillac should have an entry level 4 cylinder sedan/coupe to directly compete with the Lexus IS. Olds could have a version too.
The Olds Aurora is certainly world class luxury sport. Mercedes owners have had Auroras in the driveway. I’ve seen Cadillacs along with Olds Auroras prominently featured car in the driveways along Embassy Row in Washington, DC. I don’t recall any Buicks there. Embassy Row has many $100K automobiles.
I wish I could have taken Rick Wagoner down Embassy Row to show him the Oldmobile Auroras parked alongside the Mercedes, BMWs, and Cadillacs before he went on the radio in Washington, DC to tell us of Oldsmobile “these are what we thought were good products” after he announced Oldsmobile was being cancelled. I know for certain I could have changed his mind. Oldsmobile Aurora had penetrated the elite society in Washington, DC and that is difficult to do for a new car model. What a victory for GM. GM invested in Aurora and it was winning with the people. It was only a matter of time before Oldsmobile would become pre-eminent with the right styles. Embassy Row would have been the perfect Olds commercial for the Aurora. So when I think of the Oldmobile Aurora, I think of a world class car. I may have cost GM some money, but it bolstered Oldsmobile. Everyone who owns an Aurora knows the endless complements they have received on its appearance. It was not uncommon to hear someone say, that is GM’s best car.
Olds has a wealth of energetic exciting product names from which to create a magnificent car line. Names like Toronado, Aurora, the Cutlass Supreme, the Starfire, the Rocket, the Aerotech and the 442. Moreover, car enthusiasts have seen some of the finest concepts from Oldmobile in recent times. As a word to the wise for GM, the latest Honda Civic headlight look appears almost like it was taken from an Oldsmobile concept a few years prior. Foreign brands sometimes take styling from GM.
The 1997 Olds Alero concept was on the right track
http://www.netcarshow.com/oldsmobile/1997-alero_concept/800×600/wallpaper_01.htm
The 97 Alero concept design was on the right track toward a design to beat the Honda Civic.
The Lincoln MKR concept evoked a great response from car enthusiasts. The buying public wanted them build the the concept:
http://www.autocult.com.au/img/gallery/full/DetroitAuto380.jpg
Take a look at these Oldsmobile concepts too:
http://www.netcarshow.com/oldsmobile/2000-profile_concept/
http://forum.avtoindex.com/foto/data/media/153/Oldsmobile_O4_2001_21.jpg
Sure, it might cost a couple bucks to change the signs along the way, but GM should just start rolling out the Oldsmobiles as soon as possible change the signs as we go along. If I were CEO, I’d switch the model name of LaCrosse to an Olds Calais as soon as possible and make the announcement that Oldsmobile will lead GM in a new car revival. It would enthrall the public, they would be so excited to hear good news from GM.
The G8 would sell much better if were a bit more upscale without a black lens behind the head light. The BMW 750 has gray lens by the way. The Pontiac buyer wants a more upscale car than a Chevy. Nate asked what about the G8 as a Grand National? Possible. As noted above, names like the Grand National and the Riviera evoke a cross brand appeal for Buick as coupes. However, in general Buick sedans have been widely viewed as an “old person’s car.”
On the other hand, Oldsmobile embodies all aspects of a world class car brand with luxury, sport, quality, durability, and racing heritage. Coupe or sedan Olds has the right stuff. The Aurora was the Indy Pace car. We see high schoolers driving Intrigues. Oldsmobile has more names to offer, more sport, and just as much luxury as Buick. Oldmobile lures both Pontiac and Buick buyers. Oldsmobile gives Chevy buyers something to look up to. Oldsmobile is where GM should be for a fresh start. Its the right move. Will they do it?
P.S.
The G8 would sell even more if had a greater American parts content. Its a point of hesitation for Americans. Americans want an American car, they are desperate for one. They keep waiting and waiting and can’t even see the cars on the dealers lots because they are hidden behind the SUVs and pick-ups. They want American style with an American name, are not necessarily thrilled by number and letter naming schemes. A good looking design is what catches their eye, then they ask what kind of car is that? BMW has been successful at teasing the public with its 7 series enough to compell buyers to be thrilled enough to buy the BWM 325 even its not all its cracked up to be.
I totally understand the need for re-structuring but believe the Corvette Plant should remaim open. It (in my opinion) is a flagship of GM’s Products.
Bring the two door hardtop back. Chevy or Buick
I hope you take EXTRA CARE when reducing the number of current dealerships!
We are all on “pins & needles”!
Some of us have been in the car business for decades and don’t want to be cast aside. We are the ones trying to sell your cars; the front lines……..don’t dump us indiscriminately!
Our families and friends buy cars too……………..remember.
I’m the happiest I’ve been since dumping GM years ago and now upon the news of Pontiac being “let go”. I am relishing the moment when I’m able to purchase either new,second, third or what-have-you the Pontiac Soltice Coupe (or GXP) when the time comes. To not be associated with the modern GM-to-be is a great selling point. GM has lost its way the last 20 years or so. Pontiac deserved to go out on top; at the near best, like all the GM lost models, RWD-B/C-Bodies, Impala,Roadmaster and Fleetwood…the Fieros, the G-body Montes/GPs and Regals and many others. When what was good for GM being good for this nation came to be…….it certainly isn’t anymore.
Good Riddance GM. For once I’ll be proud to say again. Yes, I own a Pontiac.
Unfortunately, the demise of GM began a many year ago when they decided to build one body and use it for all brands (sameness). The advent of the Saturn was fresh and different. Although the quality at GM got significantly better through the years and the last few years. The styling was bland at best. However, there were a few exceptions along the way. This is just one of many issues that GM has had over the years. Anyone remember when GM’s bodies were made by “Fisher” and each brand had its own power plant? Each brand was different and unique inside and out. Yes, they competed with each other at some level. This is what created loyalty to a brand name.
Another issue was, not only GM, but all of the big 3 reliance on the SUV without much more to offer. What ever happened to GM, Ford, AMC, and Chrysler leading the way in innovation instead of just following along and reaping the profits. Oh, were did AMC go? Probably the same place Chrysler is going to currently and GM may follow a year or two later. Now is the time to get out from behind import designs and start being creative. Not just the overall vehicle appearance, but also the little things that make driving more fun.
I hear a lot about the United Autoworkers contracts that the big 3 must abide by which adds significantly to the cost of each new vehicle as compared to the imports. If this is true, then this also is an issue that must be resolved.
Of all the GM cars and trucks being marketed today, I feel they have only got it right with one. The Corvette, its not cloned in another GM brand, its exciting, and shows that some members of the GM staff can think out of the box. However, it is true that the Corvette power plant is used in other vehicles. Its time that the rest of GM take notice.
GM needs to do some of the following:
1. Create some excitement in each of the Brands, make them different.
2. Eliminate waste, from the CEO down. This is not the good-ol-boys club anymore.
3. Eliminate either GMC small trucks that are Chevy clones, or the Chevy truck line.
4. Combine manufacturing facilities for each model were possible, closing, or retooling affected plants to build a different model thats not made someplace else.
5. Build excitement into each brand, maybe each badge needs to be different company, that thinks on its own again. If this had happened, Oldsmobile would still around.
6. Re-negotiate union contracts so that wages and benefits are in line with the rest of the country.
7. Shorten the concept to market time. Why get everyone excited about a concept that is going to be years in coming.
8. Compress each badges models: Chevy has 5 cars (not counting Corvette, it cannot be called a Chevy, its way above that class), 7 SUV’s, then the truck line. Cars maybe 5 is right, 7 different SUV’s needs to cut down to maybe 2. Truck line is another issue with the GMC.
9. Quit telling the consumer what they want, its time to listen and build what the consumer wants.
10. For GM and union leadership, get out of your ivory towers and stop pointing fingers at one another and make the hard and difficult decisions. Get out of your box.
I know some of this is stuff no one wants to hear. Jobs will be lost along this path. Thats the sad part. However, if manufacturing is to stay somewhat in this country then those pains will have to be endured or else everything we purchase will be manufactured off shore. Chevy made in China?
Is the Corvette Next.?..
One of GM’s highest profit vehicle….. even though they make 40,000 per year..
If they do… GM is “DONE”
“I think anyone that expects 10M units to be sold a year at this point is out to lunch. maybe 5-7 million but not 10. GM needs to scale back, sell everything they put out the door and then start ramping back up in a year or two or 5 or 10.”
Experts are forecasting 10M-11M units this year. Where are you getting your figures? As I said, no one is making money in this environment. Honda claims they can post a full year profit next March but that remains to be seen. Daimler, Nissan, Toyota, Honda and Ford are all losing money as we speak. 10M units in this country is too low for most large manufacturers to be profitable in the US market. Period. If the market goes down to 7M unit EVERYONE is in deep trouble. You might see Toyota asking for a bailout.
BTW, check out the latest sales from April 2009- Toyota did the worst out of all the large manufacturers.
rebrand the g8 as a chevy impala ss.v8 rear wheel drive and a 6 speed.relive the 60’s again with a real impala ss.also the solstice is a good smal sporty car that could be a monza,remember when.come on gm,use a little thinking here and don’t give up on these two really special cars.
why doesn’t general motors wake up and smell the coffee they have cut some of their best divisions like saturn and saab. Why don’t they start cutting these retarded no no, stupid re-badged and ridiculous divisions like GMC quite possibly the dumbest the part of gm aside from Hummer. Figure it out and stop re-badging cars you idiots.
GM needs to get its plans in order and stick with them. What will Buick look like? Cadillac?, etc
If Cadillac gets a FWD sedan then you guys don’t have a clue and should just resign.
You’re killing off Pontiac then piss off your fans (whatever you have left) by saying the G8 won’t be ported to Chevy? How about a Caprice? How about moving the Impala to the platform? Are you going to let Hyundai have a RWD mainstream Sedan but GM won’t? Assinine.
The nameplate fiasco. You killed Pontiac with the ‘G’ names, you killed Buick by changing well known names, now you’re setting up the Cobalt replacement for failure by changing the name….again. And reviews from Europe are tepid at best. If you give the Cruze (awful name) an underpowered engine it will not sell, period.
GM had better just set its sights on making class leading vehicles or just say goodvye.
I also haven’t read anything that you’re going to honor the warranties of all Pontiacs and saturns. How do you think you’re going to sell what’s left if you don’t?
Speaking of warranties-if you want your sales back you had better increase your warranties to 5 yr bumper to bumper and 10 yrs powertrain.
>Doug Niedermeyer
Mr. Henderson,
Now that you are in charge, when are you going to take action and get rid of that ridiculous name for the Chevy Cruze?<
Double Ditto!
Show us that GM’s CEO finally has some common sense. You’re going to lose thousands of sales based on that idiotic name alone.
I feel GM mis-managed every division. Pontiac got SCREWED!! They have the number 2 selling vehicle with the G6. Trim the line to include the G6’s, Solstice and G8’s. I hope one day it can be an independent company. Get out from the corporate crap!
Will Pontiac still be built and available in Canada?
Oldsmobile as a GM brand is gone- finished, done, kaput, dead.
Not the stupidest thing GM has ever done (that would be scrapping the EV-1) but it’s near the top of the list.
Maybe they’d be willing to sell the brand name to some manufacturer of RVs or alternative vehicles-
“Oldsmobile Aptera” has a ring to it, don’t ya think?
Chevrolet is not only the top GM brand in the US, but is the global GM brand sold in all corners of the world. You think people are mad about Pontiac? Try messing with the bowtie. Chevrolet will be there until the last light at GM is switched off.
It has the heritage and the history of great past models that demand top dollar and interest as the classic American cars they are. And Corvette is and always should be a Chevrolet. Period.
Today, the Traverse is doing very well in the segment (beating the Ford, Toyota, and Honda entries) and the new Equinox should do well – giving stiff competition to the established Honda and Toyota models. The Camaro is hot, and the Malibu well received (but needs to be kept up-to-date in a very tough segment.) The Impala sells well (but needs to be changed.) The Cruze – already being sold in other markets – should finally give Chevy a strong compact entry, and the Spark looks good as well. I liked the Aveo better before the nose-job, and overall we can do lots better… The Silverado is a class leader equal to any on the market, though the Colorado needs to be redone.
Hopefully one result of a (sadly) smaller GM will be the proper attention to the remaining brands. You just can’t afford to pause in this market, let alone nap.
I agree the less government involvement, the better. But I don’t think they really wanted to be involved in the first place. If the bondholders suggestion will work better, I’m all for it. I’d love for my shares of GM stock to go back to the $40+ range (assuming they don’t evaporate,) and for all of this to be resolved out of court. I think we are about to find out how involved and messy a large-corporation bankruptcy reorganization can be with Chrysler. Hopefully GM can avoid the same fate.
Though I agree that GM needs to take bold moves to turn the ship around. I do not belive it should do so by selling a majority stake in Opel. I really question Fritz Henderson’s actions in this matter. Yes close Saturn it should have never been formed, Saab should have never been purchased, Hummer was good but GM did not take the jump early on to make the H2, H3 more fuel efficient. So it now has to go. Unfortunately plants have to close along with dealers and many other things as I said before these are bold moves that need to happen. But just as GM Daweo has been a god send for small cars Opel and the rest of GM Europe have been a god send for mid and large cars I do not believe it is in the companies best interest to sale a majority stake. If the Germans will not help Opel I’m sure the French would and I know the British would love to have more cars built in the UK. As a stockholder and a person from a big GM family. Breaking up GM is not the answer. Fritz Henderson I believe you must sincerly take another look at the Opel issue GM must be the Majority holder in any tranaction that involes Opel. I wish you all my GM family the best and good luck!
This actually explains quite a lot of things-
“From http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090503/ap_on_re_eu/eu_italy_fiat_gm :
“ROME – Fiat Group SpA confirmed Sunday it was in talks to acquire General Motor’s European operations with the aim of possibly creating a new company to also include its newly acquired Chrysler automaker.
“Combined, the new automaker would have euro80 billion ($105 billion) in annual revenues, Fiat said in a statement.
“Fiat said it was evaluating the possible spinoff of its auto business to form the core of the new company. Fiat Group Automobiles includes the Fiat, Alfa Romeo and Ferrari brands.
“The statement was issued on the eve of a meeting in Berlin between Fiat Group CEO Sergio Marchionne and the German economy and foreign ministers to discuss Fiat’s offer for GM’s German unit, Opel.
“GM Europe also includes the British company Vauxhall and the Swedish carmaker Saab.
“GM has been trying to find investors for its noncore and unprofitable assets as part of a restructuring in which it has sought billions of dollars in aid from the U.S. government to avert collapse.”
Maybe Fiat will have better luck importing those fuel-efficient European models.
So, any chance that there will be a diesel HUMMER sold before the division goes tits up?
If GM keeps no more brands than Cadillac, Buick, Chevrolet and GMC, they will only sell cars on the american market, and go from the worlds biggest car company to somewhere in the middle. I would like to see a GLOBAL restructuring plan!
I totally agree with Eric Schwiz’s comments. A much better approach would be to elminate the divisions altogether and unify things under the GM brand. GM has been putting a GM badge on all their cars for the past couple years anyway. But it would greatly simplify things. And it would allow them to focus on keeping individual vehicles and platforms that are selling rather than throwing out popular vehicles with unpopular ones. Internally this would require signficant changes and the elimination of redundant jobs and departments accross the divisions, which is probably why it will not be seriously considered. But these are unprecedented times. The automotive landscape has been permanently altered, and GM needs to take even more aggressive steps than simply cutting one division.
Gunnar Schönweiß
Its to bad that VW is building cars here… have you seen the new VW CC and GLI? If I wasn’t so hell bent on a GM product I’d probably buy a VW… That and I fear their reliability isn’t what I’m used to… though I hear that its better.
I think GM needs to take some of the Saturn values of customer first and put them on all their cars and develop a new brand like Toyota did with Scion. If GM had a new brand that no one knew was GM and offered what people wanted it would be a success.
Joe D, Cleveland OH,
I agree changing names is about perception. People like new and different.
Edwin,
Why the fixation on keeping old names and Oldsmobile?
I could almost see olds but there are better names that GM could come up with to sell their products under if they are going to spend the money to develop a brand from near scratch. What GM needs is a new brand with a new fresh slate to build a new image on. Not an old brand like Oldsmobile where customer expectations are derived from cars of the past.
The Aurora is world class luxury sport? Have you driven anything world Class luxury sport? The Aurora is ancient and anything but world class by today’s standards (no offense). Go take a BMW M5 for a spin and let me know what world class luxury sport is like…
Now if you want to talk about a car like the G8 being reworked to be even better yet (like Caddy did with the CTS) then maybe the G8 as a Buick or Olds would be world class. But right now its just another of GM’s ‘just ran’ cars.
All of the products you mention have bad images in many people’s minds. The only Olds car I hold any sympathy toward is the Intrigue and the Cutlass Supreme. And not because it is a world class car… simply because it was one of the better cars from GM I’ve owned. And in the case of the Cutlass Supreme International the electronics package was incredible (and to this day I love those digital gauges). I would buy a remade 1990 with a modern engine and tranny… but I am probably one of the few in the US who would. So I’ll say “Make new cars that are better like the Insignia or LaCrosse and CTS… don’t try to reinvent old cars”
Maybe the Civic headlight look was taken from GM but it sure is a sporty looking car (the Civic) to bad its not RWD or AWD.
I agree the Alero concept is pretty neat…
Its to bad the current CTS doesn’t look like that Lincoln concept… I sure wish the CTS was a bit more rounded….
The big difference between Honda and GM is that Honda actually made a car that people like the styling of and are buying lots of (Civic) compared to the concepts GM had which were awesome but never saw the light of the production or showroom floor.
I suppose you are right after being reminded of the styling… the new Olds was on a come back.. it could be brought back… But my advice to GM… keep the Olds logo or the Opel logo and come up with a new name. Let the spirit of Olds live in its logo and make a new car company that puts life back into GM.
Buick sedans are only old people’s car because they lack the sportiness of pontiac or olds… a G8 redone as a Grand National would be awesome. I could envision a Buick interior like the LaCrosse or a Park Avenue or even my old Regal has mixed with modern digital electronics, a powerful turbo high feature DI V6 (perhaps 3.0L) with a twin VGT turbo setup on it making 450 HP and putting it to the wheels via a CTS like AWD system… Give it rheomagentic shocks as an option and keep that Buick floating feel on the highway with the tight responsiveness of a CTS or other sports car when the need comes… Then again Such a car might as well be built off the CTS platform with a different body and interior… And isn’t that just a badge engineer of a car? and if so is that good or bad?
In some regard Olds does have the perception needed to take on some of GM’s comeptitors like VW, Audi, BMW, and maybe even Lexus….
I’m mixed on the idea at this point…
Edwin,
Maybe you are right… maybe not… The G8 would sell if it weren’t such a heavy car and if it offered some more GM like attributes (did I just say that). By that I mean power seats that work like most GM seats in Chevy, Buick etc… Also if it used a standard GM radio (bose) instead of the Australian one… also the turn signals drive me nutts… Perhaps I’m used to GMs… and not the euro cars.. But even the new Chevy trucks (2004) had weird high low beam switches… some of GM’s interface controls are tried and true.. others need changing… how about keep what works and ditch what doesn’t…
I agree.. I for one keep waiting for a car that fits my wants and needs in the package, budget and with the options I want.. right now the CTS is the closest but it is a bit pricy.
In all reality the American content of cars doesn’t bother me as much as the “has GM really changed” factor… another words is a new GM car an improvement on my current one or is it just new and shiny?
Bob,
I think the opposite is true… One body is fine if it has one name and many options. It is insulting in some ways to sell a customer a different car model with a different group of options and still not get what they really wanted out of them.
In today’s market is there really room for multiple engines? Take a good look at GM’s engine line.. they have converged the technology to an impressive level. They have: the Ecotec 4s, the High Feature V6s and the LS V8s as well as the Duramax Diesels… All of these engines is at the top of its class (or very close to it). This is THE way to go… funnel more design money into fewer products and get better products from them. GM doesn’t need more engines they need less… Put the design money into making better cars and offering them with the features and options people want.. not making 3 different styles for people… or designing a completely new chassis just to be different.
if GM’s stylers did a bit better job they’d have done better the past 20 years.
You are comparing ancient technology to modern technology.. The whole market is different…
GM needs to focus on the whole package which includes the little things… They need to make cars that look good and offer options for everyone… For instance the CTS… why is it that the CTS AWD can’t be equipped with Leather and heated seats yet the 2WD can… its not that hard but GM won’t bundle options the way people want them…
why is it few Chevy cars have heated seats yet a VW can be ordered with them on almost any model? Just a few example of GM missing the boat.
I agree on number 7 concept to market time.
I mostly agree with number 8.
I agree with 9… call in the forums to input on new designs… try designing one car with customer feedback on your blog site… post exterior designs and interiors and engine options, material choices for interiors, features, radio options… let the customers decide (via a blog website).
sheth,
lets look at a few things here… 1) supposed experts are running GM and look where they are. 2) The whole market is down and no one is making money… right you are. so why not cut the vehicles back and make sure every one is sold and covers costs AND if they are hard to get it will help keep prices high rather then needing to use excessive rebates to sell excess inventory. Doesn’t that seem like an obvious strategic move for GM or any car company? If cars aren’t selling don’t make so damn many of them… common sense in my book.
IF 7 Million units is too low then GM needs to cut models down significantly to make sure they can pay for them. The reality is that in a market there is competition and if there are to many players some of them lose. End of story.
Dustin,
Why do you say Saturn and Saab are their best divisions?
Saturns are Rebadged… and last I checked Saabs aren’t cutting edge anymore at least as far as interiors go.
Steve G,
Why doesn’t GM let the G8 Die and build the Impala on the CTS platform? Is the G8 on the same platform as the Camaro?
How about a Buick Grand National (or alternate name equivalent)?
The names aren’t what killed them.. the options did. Take a look at VWs small sport cars and the options they have and compare them to Pontiacs options… half the interior stuff VW has isn’t even available on the Pontiacs.
Heck I saw a GTI VW with a nav system and leather seats. Show me an Astra with that? or a G6 with that? Heck I gotta go to a G8 to get nav…
Beaugrand,
Olds Aptera sounds better.. and I’d buy one.. that thing looks cool.
Denny,
The Bow tie needs a new suite… aka a new look. Gm needs to come up with a new emblem like they did with Olds before they killed it. Something more sleek and modern to match the curvy Malibu and Corvette….
Last I looked the Cruze is Korean designed… not sure how I feel about that…
The Colorado needs the Diesel engine that its cousin in japan has (the Isuzu which looks identical to the Colorado).
Mike
I agree, selling Opel is a bad move. Why sell something that later can be used as competition against you? Shut them down keep the technology in house.
How do you make a brick fuel efficient (H2 and H3)??
Wade,
GM needs a global structuring plan. But I see nothing wrong with them becoming a middle sized car company for a while. What is it that being the biggest buys you but bragging rights and compromised products?
GM critics, as usual, have it wrong.
GM critics fear Oldsmobile, but aren’t concerned about Buick (surprise, surprise). As evidence, if Olds wasn’t a threat to GM’s foreign competition, GM critics wouldn’t even mention it. They would avoid or gloss over the topic, but notice how fearful critics become when the prospect of an emergent Oldsmobile seems a reality. Despite Buick’s widespread marketing perception for its sedans as an “old person’s car. GM critics and adversaries are delighted that Oldsmobile and Pontiac are out their way. As a GM enthusiast, I believe Oldsmobile is the best course to make GM the leader in the North American car market. It may be possible for Buick, but less likely more difficult, and not preferable under the circumstances.
GM critics really get upset when GM listens to its base customers and GM enthusiasts since they see their influence waning. GM critics (who are really in the other camp) have developed an agenda to attack GM interiors (even though GM has the best interiors) and berate GM with terms like “rebadge,” when in fact, its GM’s foreign competition that does most of the rebadging (the ES 350 is a tarted up Camry) and the foreign competition that has the cheap boring interiors.
Similarly, GM critics get bent out of shape over the mention of selling Opel, Saab, and Vauxhall, even Saturn. These lines make little money, they are a diversion to GM’s core brands.
GM should be leading and not conceding. The way to lead is to annouce Oldsmobile as the car brand to lead over Buick, in order to unite the GM base for Pontiac, Buick, and Oldsmobile) and at the same time give the younger buyers something to look up to.
GM executives and board should announce approval of the bond holder alternative proposal as the right way to make the company viable.
Reasons to support the GM bond holder’s alternative proposal:
1. No government control of GM
2. GM sales would rebound faster without government entanglements.
3. Less disruption of supply chain, no protracted legal battles, no government takeovers, etc.
4. Stock price potential is higher without government ownership.
5. Quick out of court settlement.
6 $37 billion in debt reduction.
7. Major reduction in structural costs.
Comparison
Bond holder’s alternative proposal:
58% equity for bond holders: 354 million shares @ $76 = $ 27 billion
41% equity for UAW: 251 million shares @ $76 = 19 billion
Results: Bond holders break even @ $76/share (Bond holders get 51 cents/share @ $40/share).
UAW generates $9 billion VEBA surplus @ $76/share (UAW breaks even at $40/share).
Bondholders retire most of the $27 billion in GM debt to zero.
UAW reduces GM debt by $10 billion (half of the VEBA payment).
Government is paid in full for its TARP loans probably by 2014.
Results: Total GM debt reduction: $27 b + $10 b = $ 37 billion
Government breaks even at any stock price since its paid off in full. Government potentially saves $10 billion under the bond holder’s proposal.
Government proposal:
51% equity for U.S. Government: 310 million shares @ $76 = $24 billion
39% equity for UAW: 238 million shares @ $76 = $18 billion
10% equity for bond holders: 61 million shares @ $76 = $ 4.6 b + $2.7 b = 7.3 (27 cents on the dollar).
UAW generates an $8 billion VEBA surplus @ $76/share.
Bondholders retire $24 b in GM debt.
Government forgives $10 billion in TARP loans.
UAW reduces GM debt by $10 b.
Total GM debt reduction: $ 44 billion.
Government risks/spends an extra $10 billion under the government’s own plan.
Government breaks even at $43/share.
GM should be seen as leading and not conceding. GM makes the best cars, so let’s make the best decisions:
1. Give early approval for the bond holder alternative as the most viable for the company. Gain public support, get the deal moving. Be ahead of the government.
2. Approve Oldmobile over Buick. Lead the car market don’t concede it.
3. Sell GM Europe, all of it, and retire Saturn (why sell it to a competitor to take business from Chevy?). Focus on North America, that’s where GM adversaries are focusing. GM cannot be profitable in Europe without first being profitable in North America.
4. Have a passion for the customer. Put GM customers/enthusiasts first.
Dialogue:
GM enthusiast: So what kind of car do you have?
Foreign car owner: Well, its a brand X.
GM enthusiast: Oh.
Foreign car owner: The last American car I had was (brand), but it had trouble.
GM enthusiast: Really, we’ve never had anything like that happen with ours, just maintaince. Was it new, or did you get it from a family member?
Foreign car owner: Neigher, it came from one of those used car lots, it was an 84 model that I bought in 1993 just to save money.
GM enthusiast: Yea, it seems like most people who says they had trouble with American are actually talking about some really old used car that they didn’t know anything about. Have you ever had a certified used or new American car?
Foreign car owner: Well no, but I just heard that about the quality.
GM enthusiast: Our American cars are the best quality, they’ve gone hundreds of thousands of miles. No one in our family has ever had a problem with GM powertrains. We’ve met foreign car owners who’ve had plenty of trouble. They perform and get great mileage. Try a GM next time you rent. GM cars use 87 octane, even for the V-8.
Foreign car owner: Didn’t know that. 87? We have to use 93 octane or the car knocks. Guess I’ll have to try GM next time I rent a car.
Like many other people commenting on this BLOG – Why not just:
1. Eliminate all seperate Pontiac Dealers and transfer Pontiac Management to Buick. This eliminates the duplicative overhead and the dealer network is already in place where Buick/GMC and Pontiac are sold in single dealerships.
2. Keep producing, but put all new development on hold, the G8, G6 (2 door and convertible) and Solstice. Each of these models represents GM’s only entry in a segment. Why not keep them and ride this out until the credit market turns around. Of course the G8 isn’t selling – I have never seen a commercial on TV for one and I have to keep explaining to people what they are. However everyone knows what an Impala is…..For a relatively small amount of marketing GM could retain these products and not kill the brand.
3. Attack the cause of problems and don’t just attack the symptoms. This is a common issue when accountants (sorry guys) and not product people make decisions. Why is Pontiac outselling Buick but is unprofitable? Marketing? Fix it. Duplicative product? Eliminate it. Use the accounting skills to isolate the leaking cost centers and make them more efficient or role them under other brands.
Caving in to bureaucrats is a sign of weakness – GM should know better. Bob Lutz – Please talk some sense into them……
Edwin,
Something seems amiss in your response.
Who exactly are these GM critics you are talking about?
What do you mean by how fearful critics become? I haven’t heard any fear of Olds on this forum. Only fear that GM is dropping “historic brands”. I also hear way to much Nostalgia for the old days when GM was #1.
I really don’t see how you say GM has the BEST interior. That statement is false. If you want to qualify GM interiors as superior, or best you need to explain your criteria of consideration and or your qualifications as to what makes them so great.
Personally I don’t find GM interiors to be the Best.. they are much better then they were in the past. And certainly gaining on the competition that is currently the benchmark by the people who matter (the media who can make or break a car). Of note the interiors I personally find appealing with my personal 1-10 rating:
CTS (9.5 shows signs of plastic yet and a few oversights on functionality)
Malibu (8,8 same as CTS just not quite as classy)
G6 (7 Lacks quality feel and features)
G8 (9 controls feel foreign compared to other GMs, lacks a few creature comforts)
LaCrosse (appears to be a 9.2, classy refined look not quite as artistic as CTS but still very nice)
Insignia (same as LaCrosse),
Solstice (8 Lacks quality feel and features, nicer then the G6 but not on par with the G8)
Cobalt (6.8 ok but needs work)
I could go on but I think you get the idea.
The new GM interiors have improved considerably over interiors just a few years ago. But after riding in an ‘08 Honda Accord and ‘08 Toyota Camry, I still don’t think GM’s are where they need to be considering the price of the vehicle they come in. Go rent one of those vehicles if you don’t believe me.
If you would please list your interior criteria it would be interesting to compare.
GM does its fair share of rebadging they just for some reason haven’t been as good at it lately as their competition… It could be because everyone is skeptical of GM and scrutinizes them more to find something wrong. If GM listens to its customers and makes the appropriate changes in the near future GM will have the better interiors.
I agree on selling brands… the argument is over which ones. Of course I’m all for getting rid of all of them, and starting a new brand. Though the easiest thing would be to dump model lines and replace brands with GM as the Brand and the Current brand names (Pontiac, Chevy, Saturn etc..) as the car model name. Talk about consolidating.
Charlie M,
The problem is in supporting the marketing behind the Pontiac name. It still requires TV ads, Magazine Ads, radio ads, borchures, etc… Wouldn’t it be easier to just dump Pontiac to Buick… the name of the car won’t effect the buyer… If a G6 was badged as a Buick G6 would it change your view of it?
Same thing goes for the G8… if it was Badged a Buick G8 or a Buick Grand National would you buy it?
The G8 isn’t selling for a few reasons. 1) its huge, 2) its on the high end of the price scale last I looked, 3) its performance oriented (thus its got a limited appeal)…And of course its a GM so right there is a HUGE problem with many people. But I agree marketing is the problem.
How can you outsell a car that isnt’ profitable? Are you really selling it or giving it away?
The G6’s problem in my opinion is a lackluster interior and missing features/options. I can buy a similar sized car from Mazda….
To GM:
I just heard something about Opel being sold to Fiat… I don’t get it Opel is GM’s ticket to selling european styled cars (like the VW CC, BMW 3, etc..) why get rid of it? It is also a brand name that is unknown enough to do well in the US.
You can all blame me for the demise of Pontiac. I am death to car brands.
My last 4 cars:
1991 Eagle Talon TSI-Eagle, dead
1996 Plymouth Neon Sport Coupe-Plymouth, enjoying a nice dirt nap
2000 Oldsmobile Alero-Olds, RIP
2006 Pontiac G6 GTP Coupe- Pontiac will be joining the happy hunting grounds.
My only solution-I am going to purchase a Toyota. Maybe my jinx will rub off on them and we can be rid of that boring Japanese brand.
The problem with GM critics in the media especially is they pretend to apply standards to GM, when GM actually exceeds the foreign competition.
GM has the best in class mileage, but never mind facts, right!!! GM has best interior quality materials (and always has), GM has the best powertrains, the best warranties, and so on. GM critics don’t ask foreign brands to give up their names (what’s a Scion?) even when there vehicles have sales losses. GM critics and their auto media counterparts fail to note the fall of foreign models like the Prelude, the make apologies for the slow selling foreign cars like Infiniti.
The auto media calls foreign cars the rely on 93 octane gas ‘high feature’, but fails to mention that fact in their reviews. GM cars use 87 and save the consumer, which they also fail to mention in their reviews. But 87 Octane is the higher feature, Corvettes are designed to operate on 87. Foreign cars knock without 93. Might be their poor engineering.
Foreign cars try to pass of hard plastic as interior even on their better models. We won’t even tell them what they are doing wrong with the rest of it, it might educate them.
GM critics in the media don’t give a standard for their interior claims for foreign vehicles. Cite one if they do, and let’s look at it. What we see in these blogs are occasional parroting of the bias media Anti-American product rhetoric which has no basis in fact.
Foreign cars luxury cars sometimes pass off cheap pigskin as ‘leather’. You know the cheap grainy stuff one finds on footballs. GM uses high grade calf skin leathers, the supple well crafted leathers with samples attached disclosing the superior quality of the GM product. GM has far better interiors than the foreign competition. GM vehicles offer better ride, better handling features. GM pioneered features like magnetic ride control, stabilitrak, and magnasteer.
GM has far better safety engineering. Note the LaCrosse Super, the engine brackets are designed for frontal impact. Cite a foreign car that has that feature so that we may promptly inspect it.
GM customers appreciate all GM brands, especially Oldsmobile. Olds has built a superior repuation with a racing heritage an unsurpassed technological prowess in the market place.
What’s with the nostagia for foreign brands? LOL. Foreign brands have no little appel, mostly a utilitarian disposable type. Owners of foreign tuners spend most of their time remaking what comes from the factory. GM cars come made the right way and don’t need to be remade from the factory to please the customer. GM owners like to keep their cars in factory condition, owners of foreign tuners can’t wait to change their inadequate products into something else.
The user holds a throw utilitarian world view, much like the disposable tin pot dicatorships around the world, those that dehumanize and degrade the the experience of a free people intending merely to limit choice in order to exact a profit. Admittedly, many in the U.S. have gradually chosen to surrender their individuality and freedom of thought in an Orwellian sense. There is a certain mindset that typically succumbs to a regimented world view of sameness in product.
Such are the biased media critics who cite the term “rebage” against GM. When in fact the foreign brands are the main rebadgers. Well, these high feature phonies know well that the ES 350 is a rebadged Camry, the Acura is a rebadged Honda, and so on. They also know GM has the best interiors and makes the best cars. A media who prints phony test data, that cannot hold the light to televised certified events like the Pontiac Challenge.
Some who buy foreign brands have succumbed to the throw-away utilitarian world view, while others are driven by fear of spending on big ticket items from a false perception planted by some biased media. Ironically, owners of foreign tuners spend most of their time remaking what comes from the factory. GM cars come made the right way.
I’d rather have a used Oldsmobile, than a brand new foreign car!!!
———————————————————————————–
Be a leader not a conceder.
1. GM should make Oldsmobile the brand now. Instead GM conceded and cancelled Olds, then it conceded again and cancelled Pontiac. Now GM is left with the least of the three to lead a car revolution, namely Buick. Buick sedans carry the perception of an older person’s car. So can Buick do it? It will be much more difficult, but its still possible and it will take longer. With Oldsmobile it can be done much faster and with more certainty. Make it Oldsmobile and GM will win for sure. A decision for Oldsmobile energize confidence for GM’s base.
2. GM should sell GM Europe and get the contracts to sell them parts instead. At the dollar’s exchange rate GM will profit more and not be overextended and under capitalized.
Sell GM Europe including Opel and focus on North America which is where its competition focuses. It makes little sense for GM to hold GM Europe going forward. GM execs may say but . . . . . Of course, I am aware of GM profits from Europe following the first Gulf War. However, GM is more likely to profit from European auto market by selling them parts with the dollars lower exchange rate. So include parts contracts for GM in the sale with periodic renewal clauses.
3. Accept the bond holder alternative proposal. GM should declare it the most viable plan have it independently examined. Ask for a declaratory right to use the bond holder alternative. If the government objects, claim abuse of descretion in court. The fact is that the bond holder alternative plan appears to be the most viable and appears to provide the best prospects for GM. The government’s plan is less appealing for the reasons noted above. GM stock will rise much faster without government entanglements or foreign entanglements for that matter. Confidence will boost GM sales.
General Motors must keep U.S. workers (both union and salaried) in order to stay an American company. And when times are better, they should employ more workers here in the U.S. It is imperative to accomplish this to keep American pride and its heritage proud.
getalifeagain,
However true that may be. It isn’t Gm’s responsibility to keep workers working. It is hard to employ workers when they can’t seem to afford to pay them what the workers want to be paid. Additionally without moving product there isn’t much left to pay workers with.
What is your solution to this type of problem?
I hope that GM will move forward with the bond holder alternative plan. Although I am a longtime fan of GM I will not purchase an Obamamobile from Government Motors Corporation.
Although Oldsmobile is preferred overall for the reasons noted above as the car brand to lead the way, Buick shares some positives with Oldsmobile which include its powertrains, its interiors, its quality, and its luxury. It will more difficult for GM to shake the ‘older persons car’ perception for Buick sedans. Buick has a few names upon which to build a reputation.
Riviera sedan/coupe with small V-8 flagship.
Grand National
Regal
Park Avenue Ultra
Ultra
Wildcat?
Can or will Buick choose to shake the old person sedan perception? Again, Oldsmobile says all the right things to the American car buyer from Luxury to Quality to Performance to Technological prowess to racing heritage.
GM is missing luxury sedan business and can do better. Yes, Buick has great interiors. Yes Buick has a nice ride and quality. Overall GM luxry offerings aren’t as strong as they could be, especially those offering a small V-8. Although many are buying GM luxury sedans, here are suggestions of the reasons some are still waiting to buy:
DTS – great car, nice engine, impressive feel, one of the best in its class, but some say its too boxy.
STS NorthStar – great car, but some say the trunk is a little too small. Harder to find in White Diamond and Gold Mist with a V-8 and sunroof.
CTS-V – Seems to be the best GM luxury sedan choice, but the size has to fit your needs.
G8 GT – nice car, nice engine, nice wheels, no power seat recline option, knobs are unusual, some don’t know the knobs exist when they sit in the car. Too many black color combos, no light colored interior, black head light lens not luxurious perception. Looks better driving around on the streets. Best color: Pacific Slate exterior. Brochure sample doesn’t really show Pacific Slate true color.
Lucerne Super – Nice car – the headlights seem to large for the tail lights. The Lucerne headlight is even bigger than the Enclave for comparison this seems unusual for a GM sedan. needs to be more inspiring on
2008 LaCrosse Super – Great powertrain, great luxury interior, nice ride, nice front. But stubby rear end with. not enough rear window showing, rear profile should be more like the Malibu, the G6, or the Aura. Overall still a better choice than some competitors. Needs to be more inspiring on rear profile styling.
Impala SS – nice car, great engine, nice wheels, nice ride, but one has to like the exterior style and want a higher priced Chevrolet. Its better than some of the competition, but not really up to GM’s potential for exterior style.
2010 LaCrosse – Powertrains options appear slim – With there be a small V-8? If not luxury buyers may still wait.
Luxury sedan offerings with V-8, include softer reflective and lighter color combinations such as Mist Blue, Pacific Slate, Gold Most, White Diamond and interior colors should offer lighter packages such as Cashmere and not so many dark combos. Offer at least one soft combo on all premium luxury sport sedans.
I strongly feel Oldsmobile is the right choice. A smartly styed Cutlass Supreme with performance and economy options has the credibiltiy to topple any competitor and achieve millions of sales. The Oldsmobile Aurora finds its way into the driveways besides the world’s finest cars. Oldsmobile has a stong racing heritage and technological prowess. Oldsmobile is known for Luxury, Style, Quality, Durability, and Performance. The Olds montra has what it takes to merge Pontiac and Buick into one fold and make GM leader in the car market again.
Nate, thank you for your interest.
I have written on this blog in past weeks and months what could be done. I proposed that the U.S. government give a 20% rebate on the MSRP of any vehicle bought from the Big 3. Also 48 billion dollars should be loaned to GM by the U.S. gov’t. Also a 5% tariff on all foreign makes (including the ones made here) would do.
If one thinks this is ridiculous or unfair, think of the trading practices of the Japanese and South Korean governments concerning their auto industry. Practically no imported vehicles are allowed into their country. Not only that, but they coddle their auto industry. I think the Bank of Japan is helping out some of their car companies.
One may also think that U.S. Gov’t intervention is not capitalist. But this global economy is lopsided and pseudo-capitalism. Every other country vomits their goods here, and we can’t even get our foot in the door with some of these countries.
Visit my blog if you would like to see more details on this subject.
Thank You.
>>>> I’d rather have a used Oldsmobile, than a brand new foreign car!!! <<<<
Now there’s an idea. Perhaps GM should start making used Oldsmobiles.
Tata Nano Gets 203,000 Orders Amazing! 203,000 orders already for the Tata Nano.
GM, as you plan restructuring, perhaps you should think about getting in bed with Tata now, before they set up shop in the U.S.
[ Perhaps GM should start making used Oldsmobiles. ]
That is not a bad idea. If GM were to start making a car that had the qualities of a late-model Olds, and could sell it at the same price point as a good, used late-model Olds (perhaps $8,000 – $10,000), you would have to keep your production line open 24/7. Just think how happy that would make the UAW and Obama’s Auto Task Force.
Some of the late model used cars offer by far the best value for a consumer’s dollar. Can you figure out a way to translate that value to newly-built cars in the same price range as a quality used car? It wouldn’t need all the bells and whistles of a brand new car, just something that would fill the same basic transportation needs and provide value for the dollar as a quality, late-model used car.
Edwin,
My last post was for some reason lost. Perhaps I made to much sense and GM couldn’t allow that. Sooo I’ll summarize.
I don’t see how you can say Olds has a high technology prowess etc… their engines are antiquated by today’s standards and other GM engines are much better.
Overall I think many of your points need to be backed up a bit better.
I however see no need to bring certain old names back to Buick (Park Avenue, Regal, Wildcat etc..).
I can see bringing the Grand National back using a G8 or CTS platform car. But if you are worried about the old people image the last thing you would want to do is bring back the cars that made Buick’s into Old People’s cars (Park Ave, LeSabre, Regal etc…).
New Buicks with a new image deserve new names. Even LaCrosse I think doesn’t quite do it.
I’m not sure I see the need for a V8 in the LaCrosse. Until GM has a small perhaps 4 or 4.5 liter small block with Direct injection I see no point. They are far better off modifying the High Feature V6 (turbo, supercharger etc..) to make more then 300 HP. As it is that engine without Direct injection is used in the Saab Aero.
I think for right now the days of V8s are dwindling. Though I suppose there could be a small niche market for them.
I almost support a Cutlass… not so much on the Aurora.
But in reality a car GM releases in the future will have NOTHING in common with any of the now extinct Olds line. I don’t see any point to going back to Olds. GM can name their cars whatever they want, a new design is what a new design is. Something new and without a reputation. Therefore I think GM should name their cars as best fits the model they are selling even if it is a new brand.
As to Old’s technical prowess and high performance heritage… I don’t see it in their modern vehicles.
Stick with Buick or make a new brand…. Thats my vote at this point.
Hey, you only lost a mere 6 billion. You want more taxpayer help! Fritz, GM is dead! Why don’t you just go ahead an file for liquidation?
Edwin,
Let me give you one good reason why th Oldsmobile brand was ended and why it will never return. When dealer records for new car sales were studied in the 1980’s and 1990’s, it was found that the average age of a person buying an Oldsmobile was 65. Buick wasn’t much better at 57. Pontiac’s average buying age was 28, Chevy about the same, and Cadillac 41. It is like I have stated earlier, cars like Oldsmoblie and Buick are too expensive for the average consumer to buy, and if one can afford it, they are more likely to spend the few extra dollars to buy the Cadillac.
Now on to other things. After a great deal of thought, since Pontiac is going to be dismantled, at least save a few of the cars and restyle and rebadge as Chevrolets. Take the G6 coup, give it some Chevy styling, put in a high HP V6, and offer it as the Chevelle. Keep the four door version as the Malibu. Take the current Malibu and call it Caprice. Take the solstice and call it Corvair. Also I agree on making the G8 as the Impala.
Nate,
It takes time to build up certain aspects of a brand. Oldsmobile is known for being GM’s technological brand with a racing heritage. The Oldsmobile Aerotech, the Olds Rocket are examples of reaching beyond. Each GM name and success touches GM’s loyal customers in different ways which add value to the company’s product and profit potential. GM’s brands and names are important to GM’s base. Creating a new model with a new name and building it up also takes time. Customer loyality is an high ranking factor in sales. Classic names carry weight with consumers when they are placed in smart stylish designs. GM’s car successes is what GM should build upon.
Oldsmobile brand is an important GM asset, it was cancelled for the wrong reasons. If anything, Oldsmobile should be the brand to replace Buick and Pontiac for the reasons noted. GM models use GM powertrains, GM customers understand that. Some simply want a higher experience and aren’t interested in or have outgrown Chevrolet.
They’ve tried the make it up as they go along strategy and they should be listening to GM enthusiasts instead. GM tried shooting from the hip with limited success. They’ve tried the G names and so on. As we see, Pontiac customers are particularly fond of the G naming system, and many have suggested a return to the classic names. The Aurora did build up a following, people liked the new name and the design. Cancelling the brand was the wrong decision. If anything, its should be Olds over Pontiac and Buick.
Using the Grand National name for a car like the G8 is a good idea. However, I would make some changes to the G8 as noted above. And it would sell much better with a higher American parts content. It needs a classy image as well as a sporty one for the current rising professional buyer. The heavy Pontiac moldings of the 90s did not appeal to this class of buyer and GM missed business on account of it. Buyers bought Grand-Ams for lack of better American choice. If GM had been up to speed on styling, the Grand Am would have doubled its numbers.
You may like a suped up V-6, but its simply not up to par for the base V-8 customer. Many of these customers have done the V-6 thing and they’re tired of it. They want a V-8. V-8’s get as good or better fuel economy than a V-6. A V-6 is often no more than 2 mpg difference. A V-6, no matter the horsepower is simply an inadequate product for many luxury sport buyers. We don’t want any V-6. Plus a V-8 with active fuel management is a much better product than a V-6 or a straight 6. Direct Injection V-8 with active fuel management is an exciting prospect. Its smoother ride, a superior feel, and all around just better than any type of 6. We can change the government again if we need to.
The Regal Grand National sold and looked great. Yet, it would have sold in even greater numbers with the small V-8 offering. Profit is made from the higher end offerings like the luxury sport line-ups.
Many luxury customers are ready to trade for the right style in a small V-8. These consumers have the money and will trade/buy simply to have the next great style. GM is missing the retail turn on luxury sedans which it once dominated from exterior style and powertrain enthusiasm. GM’s can lure many more luxury customers to its fold with sharp luxury sedans and upscale engines like a V-8 with active fuel management.
The LaCrosse Super is a well made car overall with nice interior, but its not quite up to the exterior styling for the reasons noted above that those luxury buyers are seeking.
Oldsmobile would spur sales. Staying with Buick places GM on a more difficult path. Buick is possible, but Olds is better to unite Buick and Pontiac buyers. Pontiac is GM’s third best selling brand and GM should not alienate these buyers. Oldsmobile can keep both Pontiac and Buick buyers and can lure the competition and Olds buyers back to GM. GM would still have the option for to offer a Riviera or Grand National niche car under the Oldsmobile dealership. Even a Pontiac Firebird could translated with a name like Oldsmobile Starfire or Aerotech. The G8 could as easily be an Olds 442.
Many liked the Cutlass as you noted, and there are many others who liked the Aurora which built a luxury sport enthusiast following. Its consumer appeal.
You say you don’t see certain things in their modern vehicles. Well that’s the point, they need to rekindle that passion. That was why so many were clamouring for them to do so.
GM had $45 billion in cash in 2005 (and a partridge in a pair tree). The time to sell GM Europe/Opel for cash is at high tide. Now GM is seeking stake in Fiat in exchange for Opel. Smart move which hopefully will result in more capital at home for GM. As long as it pays this time and doesn’t cost!!
GM should not follow a strategy of being overextended around the world with assets and undercapitalized at home. At the same time, the U.S. government should cut corporate tax rates drastically and reduce deductions which entice companies to deduct during the good times and borrow to maintain the benefit funds during the downturns. GM borrowed to maintain its benefit funds during the downturns.
Let’s turn this around. Time to recapitalize.
April 10, 2007, Sovereign Society chairman John Pugsley warned of an impending hedge fund crisis in the U.S. banking industry in an letter entitled:
These 25 Banks Harbor Nuclear Secrets That Could
Vaporize Your Wealth
https://www.web-purchases.com/SVS/WSVSH752/landing.html
Did GM get a copy?
I always thought the the creation of Saturn was a mistake, rather than just adopting the sales ideas that Saturn dealers were given. The purchase of Saab was another bad idea. Now that GM is in such dire straits, why waste the investment on Zeta and Alpha? I can live without Pontiac because of the overlap in products with Chevrolet, but why kill Zeta in NA? It makes little sense to only build the Camaro and not take advantage or the economies of scale and not build more Zeta products or just build them down under and at least make them available like the rest of the world. I’d split Corvette from Chevy, build more than one model more like the prancing horse. I think building the next generation Tahoe/ Denali/ Escalade would also enhance GM’s lineup if they were infact built off a Zeta platform rather than the FWD platorm used by the Traverse/ Acadia/ Outlander/Buick, and last but not least, a Chevy replacement for the new Camaro and a new small Corvette replacement that could actually be sold at every local Chevy dealership on Alpha . PS, I thought it was another waste to not merge the new Insignia and Lacrosse as a world car.
Mr. Henderson,
With all due respect, this requires an explanation from you: Under Restructuring, GM To Build More Cars Overseas
“More significantly, it raises fundamental questions about the purpose of bailing out these big companies. If GM is going to do more of its production overseas, then why exactly are we saving GM?”
Hi Clint,
I am citing your recommended story from Washington Post (your link): “The proportion of GM cars sold domestically and manufactured in those low-wage countries will rise from 15 percent to 23 percent over the next five years…”
That’s an 8%-increase. How does it make a big difference?
So-called German cars in the average contain maybe between 35 and 65% truly German value, according to a study I was reading a time ago. In contrast GM actually seems to build its cars much more “domestic” oriented: http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2007-03-21-car-content-chart_N.htm
BTW: GM reported a loss of 6 bln? Well, Toyota even can top this: http://www.detnews.com/article/20090508/AUTO01/905080435/1148/Toyota+posts+$7.7B+fourth-quarter+loss
Clint Lowdermilk raised a good question:
More significantly, it raises fundamental questions about the purpose of bailing out these big companies. If GM is going to do more of its production overseas, then why exactly are we saving GM?”
Its not the U.S. auto industry or its business model as shrill media pundits claim that is at fault here. Its the entangled U.S. financial model, the high tax rate structure, the misplaced trade policy, and burdensome regulatory scheme which the U.S. government has place on American business. The U.S. needs to have a pro-business tax and regulatory structure.
The auto industry has prospered longer than any other industry under the anti-business climate created by the U.S. Congress and Executive branch under both parties. For that they should be given a commendation. The U.S. government has driven away the electronics industry, the furniture industry, the music industry, Silicon Valley computer industry, the garment industry, the footwear industry, ship building, even the cruise ship industry, and so on. Foreign transplants are mere assembly ports for to off load foreign parts.
Republican and Republican Presidents who claim to be pro-business have passed gargantuan laws like the Clean Air act, and opposed simple worker protections like the family leave act. Democrats have enacted high tax rates and imposed undue burdens on business to do the job which is more properly the role of government. Both parties have failed to fix the unfair trade practices and conditions and currency manipulations by foreign powers. Conflicting regulations CAFE regulations are a failed regime which has slowed the flow of technology to the market place and increased costs to the consumer. The spector of Cap and Trade poses another tyrannical tax upon the American people.
So is it any wonder that American business is seeking ways to survive with assets overseas? The auto industry more than any other has sought to help the cities and towns and the American worker. There is no greater partnership in America than the partnership between the U.S. auto industry and the UAW.
Its time for the U.S. government, both parties to admit government’s unwarranted hostility toward U.S. business whcih has in large part caused the job losses. No to mention the double standard applied to the U.S. auto industry and its workers compared the the favorable treatment of Wall Street by the government.
The Midwest decides elections too.
Robert Sprayberry,
I think the G6 could and should be turned into a Buick. Its curves are inline with Buick’s style (as is the Solstice) and all it really needs in my opinion to really change the image of the car is a new interior with a bit more CTS and Malibu influence. I’d rather it not become a Chevy. Despite this I have a feeling the G6’s life is nearly done anyway and a replacement is in the works.
I really think offering the G6 as a Chevelle would be a huge mistake. The die hard Chevy people would be up in arms about it.
GM is better off making it a Buick and calling it a B6 or something.
The Solstice can stay a Solstice under the Buick name. and the Sky should move to Caddy. Make it the Cadillac SKY. Or a Cadillac RSC (Roadster Sports Coupe).
I could see a G8 as an impala. But I’d rather see it as a reborn Grand National with a 3.0 Liter Twin Turbo engine (400 HP). That would pretty much bring the legend back. Though a CTS chassis would be much better in my opinion with some new curvier bodies.
Edwin,
The problem isn’t GM’s loyal customers they are going to buy GM no matter what. GM’s problem is the increasing number of people who are no longer brand loyal and who buy on Consumer Reports ratings, Magazine reviews and word of mouth. These people could care less about brand loyalty and only want the best car that gives them the emotional appeal they want. This is exactly why GM needs to focus its newer cars on getting this audience back. If GM does that the rest of GM loyalists won’t mind the nicer GM cars and everyone wins.
Smart Stylish designs with appropriate names carry weight with everyone. (Hence why no one would ever consider calling a Solstice a Corvette). People apply the character and attributes of older names to newer cars and if they don’t fit they don’t like them. The new GTO was an example. Many didn’t like it because it just didn’t look like the OLD GTO. That is probably why GM went with G8 instead on the new 4 door GTO. That and styling.
They need to listen to enthusiasts but can’t base their entire brand strategy on people obsessed and passionate about older nostalgic cars. You are right that they do need a few of them but they also need to cater to the other demographic of car buyers who have been switching to foreign brands. To win these people over GM needs new car names with new images and design to fit these cars. They need to go after some of the high end cra brands.
The G8 needs a bit different looks but I think in my opinion its the price and feature content that would sway me toward a CTS. As a Buick Grand National though the interior could be modfied a bit.
The Grand Am was a neat looking car on the outside (at least the last version they made) they just needed a bit nicer interior quality. The 90’s grand ams I would not have been caught dead in.
As to the V6’s you are right there is some torque missing there. But have you driven a GM turbo V6? The Saab Aero is missing a proper rear wheel drive transmission so that 2.8L putting out 280 HP is probably a mild version of what you can do with a turbo. Everyone knows the legendary Grand National turbo engine and its 1/4 mile times. Why not do the same?
The G8 already has a respectable V8 and once the new Direct Injected V8s come out the same displacement (6.0 or 6.2L) will make more then 450 HP (if it is anything like the truck engine GM has in the works). Not to shabby.
The real problem is customers like me who don’t need big engines but what the power there. I am perfectly happy with a turbo engine that gets decent to great fuel mileage but still has the power to have fun. A modern V8 still can’t deliver that (yet).
I’m not sure how a V8 makes a car have a smoother ride that is all in suspension tuning (for the most part). And actually the lighter weight of the V6 is better. And with a turbo it’d be a close tie.
I would love to see GM make a 4.5 Liter SBC or even a small 3.0L V8 but I think it would be foolish to scrap the Ecotec, High Feature V6 and SBC and add more engine back to the line. GM has a very strong engine selection now. All that is missing is a wider array of Turbo or Supercharged V6s and manual transmissions to back them up.
How much better do you think GM can really do with engines? Direct injection with Variable Valve timing is pretty high tech. The only thing more high tech is a variable geometry turbo with all of those other features.
Styles will always be changing but GM seems to be converging on the ultimate engines for the time being.
Which LaCrosse Super (the new unreleased LaCrosse or the older ones)?
Buick can do it all GM needs to do is build the right design of car with the right style, feature sets, interior, and feel. They are getting closer. Its only a matter of time before they figure out the magic formula.
I don’t see so many clamoring for them.
The bad thing about selling Opel is that the Insignia and a few other cars are what the American market needs. They would be foolish to sell off the Insignia (which is almost brand new) and especially foolish to package their engine and transmission technology in any such deal. That said how much worth is the shell of a car to Fiat? GM is better off long term to just shut them down.
If GM unified their model lines and brands they would be doing fine.
Rick Rohde,
I agree Corvette should be spun off and they should make a sleeker sexier version for the high end customer. They also should turn the Solstice or Sky into a Corvette sub brand.
I can’t agree with building the next gen Tahoe on the Zeta… I’m not sure what logic is there?? Those are full framed SUVs last I checked that actually have tow capacity. Why cripple them?
Personally the Traverse/Acadia is a decent platform even if it is front drive. Why change it?
Merging the new Insignia and Lacrosse would be ok. However as I understand the Insignia is a smaller car. I’d rather a smaller version then the huge LaCrosse.
As I have posted before on another page here I am very disappointed at Pontiac’s death as a brand. The logic of this makes no sense and I am trying to comprehend why it’s being done. From previous posts I know that Pontiac GM’s third best selling brand. The decision to keep Buick seems to have come about because of sales in China. Now I don’t know where GM is building the cars they sell in China as Buick’s (I suspect some are made in China and others are imported to China from Holden in Australia), but it begs a question, Pontiac’s current problem is lack of product that is exclusive to the division (too many re-badged Chevy’s). Pontiac already imports the G8 from Holden in Australia, so the question I’ve got is why doesn’t GM keep Pontiac and bring other models from overseas that would fit Pontiac’s image as a performance division? For that matter if GM is looking at saving money Buick is making most of it’s sales in China so why keep the North American version? It’s North American sales are only about 1/3 of Pontiac’s and yes I know that GM may make more money on each Buick sold but I doubt it would totally compensate for lost sales if no Pontiac is around.
Finally, why is a division that consists entirely of re-badged Chevy’s safe? GMC doesn’t have a single product that can’t be had at a Chevy dealer and GM also makes those same models as Cadillac’s! This once again makes no sense! Who says that GM could not slightly reduce the prices on the Cadillac SUV and trucks so that the are priced as GMC’s currently are? Slightly less profit, but you also should sell more. It’s Buick or GMC that should be phased out and not Pontiac (note you can keep producing Buick’s for China in the US and import them into China!) Is GM aware that you most likely have many more people who will never buy a Chevy and are loyal to Pontiac than you ever had when GM decided years ago to phase out the Oldsmobile brand?
Between my wife and I we have a 2002 Z06, 2007 Impala, and a 2008 CTS. With the news that GM is sending more of its jobs and production to Mexico, China, and Thailand I see no reason for us to be loyal to GM since it has no loyalty to America or the American worker. If we don’t deserve your loyalty, then you don’t deserve ours.
Lets forget about the past. So many mistakes which could fill up a novel. It will be a sad day when GM files for bankruptcy. The mighty GM is going to fail (the Titanic resurfaces). Who would think that Ford pulls it off and GM with the theory that quality problems just need to be swept under the rug year after year actually had the last laugh. This is a embarrassment to the United States, it’s work force, and consumers. The imports are let into US by our government rolling out the red carpet just to be nice, and they stabbed us in the back. It will take decades to recover, going to the bottom of the heap, watching Toyota, Honda, VW and Hyundai take over the transportation industry. A truly sad day in my generation. Something I never believed could happen. All your loyal customers who kept buying GM because it’s the right thing to do are now ashamed. “The bigger they are the harder they fall”. Management of GM should be deported to a third world country.
To reaffirm my last comment.
An employer has a social responsibility to employ people. This is the whole way of good capitalism. If one expects to make products and employ as few as possible, who will buy those goods? It is also good practice to employ for the good of the community. Large corporations with a stable work force make for a flourishing and positive community and city.
The foreign makes were brought here with stipulations from politicians who gave grand concessions in order to get those foreign makes to build factories here. That was and is taxpayer dollars given to the foreign concerns to lure them in. Not only that, but taxes were eliminated or cut too.
A 5% tariff is quite modest. It is not like the large tariffs imposed in the early thirties which helped somewhat in deepening the Great Depression.
Banks received huge amounts of dollars from the U.S. Government (and still need much more) to bail them out. Why not GM?
The bankruptcy of Chrysler is very costly both directly and indirectly to taxpayers. Also, the bond markets have taken a beating since 2008 because of the lack of confidence, and the value of bonds has diminished.
What other countries would allow their industries to flounder in the face of foreign concerns flourishing industries? (And for “capitalism’s” sake)? France won’t, Germany won’t, Japan won’t.
You indicate that you are going to build more cars in other countries. Is there any good reason that you should be getting any help from the taxpayer. GM is rapidly turning into a joke! I have owned many GM cars. My loyalty is long gone!
Affordable Luxury is where GM’s market share has been siphoned away. Oldsmobile represents this and much more. Olds is the target brand mark that GM is should have.
Average age is misleading. The average age of a Corvette enthisiast is all ages. But at what age does this class of buyer have income?
The average age of a Grand Am buyer may be lower than an Alero, simply because the Grand Am had a bigger marketing budget. Self fulfulling statements about marketing and average age are not the proper way to analyze a brand potential.
The average age and class on one side of town may vary from the other side of town. GM may not even have a dealership on the higher income side of town or have ever attempted to market its affordable luxury to certain demographics. GM has missed far too much retail turn-over on affordable luxury or the near luxury segment ES350, Acura, Infiniti, Maxima, and so on.
Oldsmoble appeals to all ages regardless of how a particlay model like the Delta 88 may be have been marketed with a column shift.
And no, its not true that a GM base customer will simply buy another GM brand. GM buyerws are style conscious. Many GM base customers have been disallusioned on style. The Cutlass Supreme buyers are only one case in point. GM’s core brands are icritical to GM’s core customers.
GM’s ability to reach beyond to conquest buyers depends also on building brand loyality and have a strong foundation.
If Cadillac style doesn’t appeal to the buyer they have little choice within GM brands. Even if Cadillac offered another style alternative, GM still should have an affordable luxury brand with sport appeal and that brand is Oldsmobile.
Affordable luxury of Oldsmobile can build up GM’s core and take market share for the company.
I posted back in January that GM should go through bankruptcy to reorganize and kill half their brands. The GM insiders were “NO, NO – we can’t file bankruptcy”. Now GM has taken how many billions of taxpayer money and still is no where closer to survival. What have they done? Made plans to kill Pontiac, sell Saab, sell Hummer (good luck with that one), sell Saturn, take the summer off of production, beg the unions for mercy, and screw their bond holders! Great job GM.
I just bought an Acura MDX rather than a GMC Acadia/Buick Enclave/Chevy Traverse/Saturn Outlook. Why 4 brands?!?! Each with a little different trim and option set.
I was seriously shopping for a CTS-V, but quit after GM’s stupidity convinced me not to buy anything GM until they get serious about their future. In fact a friend, who is a Cadillac dealer, advised me NOT to buy one. He said the price will plummet when GM goes bankrupt. And who knows if GM will kill the V series to appease Obama and Al Gore. So I bought an Audi instead.
GM – sell or kill Saturn, Saab, Hummer, GMC. DO NOT CREATE ANOTHER BRAND! Build on Chevrolet, Buick, and Cadillac. Keep the good cars and merge them into the the Chevy/Buick/Cadillac. Cars like the G8 (Chevy – or you could make a real Impalla SS instead), the Vibe (Chevy), the Sky/Solstice (Buick or Chevy). All Chevrolet dealership should also be Buick dealerships. Cadillac should be it’s own separate dealership. Do this in a year and maybe GM will survive.
The title to this blog is rather quite humorous to me. “Tough by necessary steps to restructure GM”. It goes on to state 4 areas of which GM considers ‘tough’ steps: Deeper, faster execution, Sustainable results, Healthy Balance sheet, and Technology. Rather funny to me… you can’t achieve any of those measures without the majic ingredient, ‘CUSTOMERS’. General Motors has lost not only me, but my daughter, my parents, my brothers, and all of my friends and coworkers (and anyone else I come into contact with) as customers because of their complete and total disregard for me as a customer. You see, I fell for the ‘buy the great american Icon, GM’…’American Made’. I fell hard enough for it that I bought two (2) GM vehicles. I bought an extended warranty on my daughters, just in case…to be safe…for her. She was 16. The motor blew 8 months after I bought that car, Grand Am. Dealer did not honor the warranty, neither did GM. I just replaced the motor in the other one, Bravada and replace the Air Conditioning System every spring, and the Heater every fall. Only 100,000 miles. Bought it cause I thought the motor would last at least a couple hundred thou before any trouble. I have now sunk enough money into that vehicle, I will never get out from underneath it. Lost thousands on the Grand Am, an now loosing thousands on the Bravada. Yet, GM ‘GIVES’ a brand spanking new vehicle to their management every six months. That is disgusting. You ‘Reap’ what you ‘Sow’ General Motors…’Great American Icon’. Do you really think I, or anyone else that is familiar with my situation will ever buy a General Motors Vehicle ever again? And I DO mean EVER AGAIN? Can you even say ‘Customer Service”? I think the Government should let happen what happens. A new Auto Manufacturer will take your place, one that understands Customer Service, and all will be well with the world again and we can read about the almighty General Motors in our History Books.
I’ve come to the conclusion that GM is dead. The day Buick was chosen over Pontiac signaled that there would be no future. The short-sightedness of choosing an “old man’s car” over a youth-oriented brand will be an unrecoverable mistake. Add to that the refusal to transition the “good” Pontiacs (read: G8 and Solstice) to the surviving brands and you can see that GM is on its death bed. I’ve never owned anything but GM cars, but I can’t bear to care anymore….it’s time to move on to another company.
Eliminating Brands- will automatically reduce Market Share from the current position- this is exactly what happened when eliminating Oldsmobile.
Eliminating Dealers- will automatically reduce Market Share from the current position.
Its the beginning of the downward spiral- insufficient market share currently to support the operating overhead. Action taken, eliminate some of the overhead, resulting in more reductions in market share. This will cause again a mismatch in market demand and operating overhead.
If this is the only solution, than its apparent- the time to fix GM passed a long time ago. In retrospect, the product planning of the 1980’s cemented GM’s fate. The brand name plates made products to similiar to each other, and this caused the erosion of market share. It can never be fixed.
God help US………………
I am retired salaried. I far as I know there is only one GM and one GM stock. So, the money I invested in the old GM stock is for the whole company, not just US. Is this correct? With the “NEW GM”, will there be a new stock? If so, what percentage of the new stock will curent stock holders receive? After all, we invested in all GM, not just US. The agreement with the union involved stock. Which stock will they receive? I worked hard my entire career with GM. I was always proud to work for GM. I’ve supported the company products and purchased more than 40 new GM car and trucks. I even bought GM appliances in the old days. I hope you are not planning on puling a “DELPHI” or DELTA AIRLINE” on the current stock investors. Both of these companies nullified their stock and then asked investors to reinvest in a new stock. If you lost your life savings in the old stock, how in the world could you invest in any stock? Can I assume that when NEW GM rebounds that our stock will become more valuable again?
I don’t understand how GM could leave their IUE-CWA employees without health insurance but keep the health insurance for UAW. What about all of those individuals who are over the age of 65 on a limited income who cannot afford to go out an buy insurance. GM cares for on one
My kid’s college fund was tied up in GM (now GMGMQ). I’m sure we all know what is about to happen there. As GM leaves me out in the cold, I shall never again spend another cent on GM stock or products because I feel jilted. I really don’t care how good the NEW products are going to be – I won’t even look at them.
GM needs to rethink their “bad” decision to kill off Pontiac. I am telling you that us Pontiac loyalists are many and your sales will fall because of what you are doing. Pontiac has proven its worth over the years and most recently with the G8. There is no finer car built by GM and it needs to be preserved in the lineup as a “Pontiac”. Look at your sales figures for July where Pontiac outsold Buick and Cadillac together, not to mentiom GMC. The G8 sales percentages were oustanding and the reviews this car continues to get are great. The car has been rated as one of the best loved full sized sedans built today and every owner’s review that I read praises it as the best, or one of the best cars they have ever owned. My salesman at the Carl Black GM dealership in Kennesaw, GA calls me Pontiac Mike and he is absolutely right because this has been my choice of cars since the mid 60s.
Wake up GM! America needs Pontiac and you need to preserve this great automobile in your lineup of vehicles.
Regards,
“Pontiac” Mike
The only way to save Pontiac is to help create a sales surge for the last remaining Pontiac G6 which will be heading to Fleet Rental Companies this fall. Also create a sales demand for the Pontiac G8, which comes from GM’s Australian Holden division, which is still in production. GM would surely reconsider Pontiac if the sales figures are there and that money is made. GM and other car companies will not save any models if they continue losing money. GM is in no mood to lose any more money. You can sign up to all the petition sites dedicated to Saving Pontiac.
Folks, you can help in the cause to Save Pontiac by creating a sales surge and demand for the Pontiac G6 and G8. You can be rewarded for your efforts. Log on to your URL address bar at: http://www.canam-bond.ws for more on how to save Pontiac. E-mail me at: citiwestfincorp@inbox.com
to contact me to get started. Get as many clients to Lease-To-Own the Pontiac G6 and G8. Show GM that there are still lots of demand for Pontiac over the imports. Regards, Edward
My lifelong and continuing love of Pontiac began in 1989 when I was 17 years old. A 10 year old Pontiac on a car lot caught my eyes and imagination even though i never saw smokey and the bandit. It was a 79 Trans Am. I bought it on the spot and made memories in it until 2002 then sold it for more than i paid. (dumb ass) I do not usually buy new but I had to order a 2002 Trans Am just look at the STYLE, PERFORMANCE, HERITAGE its all in there its a Pontiac. And then sadly gm kills f body and the ford boys capitalize big time with an inferior product. When the g8 came about i thought this was to good to be true. A family sport sedan that almost keeps up with the TA with room for 5. My wife decided she needed it and wanted it after i took her to a Pontiac dealer to show her. I put up no resistance and we sighned up for a 2009 GT. We also own a 98 Grand Prix GTP that my wife aka Pontiaddict cannot part with. Now gm wants to sell me a boring buick. You’ve got to be kidding if china wants buick give them buicks Americans want Pontiacs so build us Pontiacs are you NOT an American company anymore ? Do you NOT care about your loyal customers? Just look at these blogs. You’ve been Slowly stangling Pontiac for years always yanking the leash. Kill buick and gmc and unleash Pontiac. Put all gm product in one dealership and end the confusion.
Give g8 its rightful name GRAND PRIX.ALL WE WANT IS GOOD PRODUCT TO BACK UP GOOD NAMEPLATES. Firebird GTO Solstice Grand Prix Just look at the Taurus. The name never was the PROBLEM!
Anyone who buys gmc would easily swith to chevys. Most including myself could care less. Pontiac enthusiasts do not want buick or chevy cars. I’ve talked to hundreds of people in my area in northern NY and EVERYONE thinks killing Pontiac is another dumb decision in a long line of dumb decisions made by gm.
A bad dealer experience is bad for GM.
GM needs to start a dealer rep “secret shopper ” program and go into dealers and see if customers are being treated fairly.
No up sales, no jacking of interest rates higher than you qualify for, no expensive unnecessary add on’s just value for the dollar. Just a quality vehicle at a value driven price.
No one ever walks out of Walmart feeling that they got cheated.
Walmarts market share has increased over the last 20 years. GM’s has decreased.
Maybe that Quality and Value thing is important.
i still cant beleve that pontiac is gone this makes no since when i was really hoping for and woudeve been in line for a new trans am in within a year of it returning when i always liked the ta over the camaro any way extremely disapointed!!!!!!
it has been one year, and nothing at GM has changed. They still think and act the same way they always have.(they don’t care about the customer, and they are out to make their money retire.) look what has happened since then. The G8 ST was made a reality in Australia, the new Trans Am will be coming out soon, and everyone is still up in arms about Pontiac being gone. Yet, the bean counters at GM don’t care. Nor do the people such as Evard, Edwin, or Alex D. They all keep rooting for cars and trucks that fail. look what buick has become: an overpriced Toyota Camry with a big buick badge. Where has Chevrolet gone? Nowhere. They are making the ugly, underpowered cruze and volt that not one person can afford. how about GMC? GMC has become and overpriced version of all Chevrolet’s trucks and crossovers. And Cadillacs sales went down the tubes before the 2008 crisis occurred.
It sickens me that the people who were in power a year ago still hold their seats. Susan Docharty NEEDS to be fired. Bob Lutz NEEDS to retire soon. You guys havn’t built one car that anyone wants to buy. Except maybe for old people, since that generation will be your primary customer now. You have nothing exciting or fun to drive. The new camaro looks ugly, and is much like the other generations. It will NEVER beat the Firebird/Trans Am series. Not even in your dreams. Pontiac will never die. You may have closed dealers, got rid of hundreds of thousands of jobs, and put people on the streets because of your decision. But you will NEVER be able to really kill Pontiac. As long as There are Pontiac enthusiasts, drivers, and builders then Pontiac will be around forever. And the sooner you realize that, the sooner GM can take back it’s 50% market auto market share.