It Seemed Like a Good Idea at the Time…
By Bob Lutz
GM Vice Chairman
OK, I have some late-breaking news for you from the world of GM, where things are indeed moving quickly, and what I’m about to say is proof.
In fact, we’re moving so fast, we’re going back in time to, oh, about four or five days ago, when the Pontiac G8 was going away and was not going to become a new Chevrolet Caprice.
And therein lies the news: The G8 will not be a Caprice after all. I’d mentioned it, and said we were studying it, giving it a serious look, because a car like the G8 was just too good to waste.
That’s all still true. But I have to say that, with my new “marketing” hat on, upon further review and careful study, we simply cannot make a business case for such a program. Not in today’s market, in this economy, and with fuel regulations what they are and will be.
I know that we’ll get a lot of complaints from G8 lovers, because I’m one of them. And the product guy in me is complaining as loudly as anyone. But the marketing guy says there’s no case. With budgets being what they are for the time being, the resources must be allocated elsewhere.
In no way, and this is very important, in no way does this mean we are backing away from performance, or backing away from rear-wheel drive. Look no further for proof than the Corvette, the Camaro, the CTS or many other present and future Cadillacs. We have a strong lineup of RWD vehicles already and we will continue to have it.
And we have a tremendous RWD team in Australia that gave us the beloved G8, a team that we will tap into at some point again in the future for its expertise and sheet metal. Just not right now.
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That’s OK. Did you ever have a chance to look up the dictionary definition of “caprice?” It was a bad name for a car anyway. (’Caprice’ and ‘capricious’ come from the same root and both mean unpredictable or impulsive.)
Now, let’s go back to thinking of offering the G8 as a pure police interceptor to give police departments a choice other than Crown Vics. I suggest you name it the Chevrolet Raptor after the Air Force’s F-22.
You could build it only in fairly low numbers, and it probably wouldn’t be that profitable, but as a way of getting the GM brand out there and visible, it would do wonders.
I don’t know about the rest of you, but I really like the name G8 Grand National or g8-GNX. Both inspire good memories of stomping Mustangs and Corvettes. It’s was either a G8 or a BMW 550.
Good job GM .
If you have to get rid of the V8, turbo V6 from the GNX ?? It’s just a power thing with me.
If GM ever does decide to rebadge the G8 then I suggest they add some upgraded amenities to it, a waterfall grill and call it a Buick Wildcat. That is a name the public will love! Except for my brief fling with a Dodge Superbee,I have owned Buicks and Pontiacs for 40 years. I recently turned in my leased Lucerne to buy a G8. I love the style and performance, would prefer to a few more of the creature comforts I had become accustomed to. Buick could rock this car!
I support the Buick Wildcat concept as the way to evolve the G8. A range of economical to high-performance G8s with understated Buick style in and out really could compete with BMW.
Good on you Jerry, I think this is a fantastic idea. Buick GNX Wildcat for the G8 GXP. Never did like the G8 name, should have been the Grand Prix from the beginning. The market agrees with me by the sales of the GP vs. the G8 when they sold side by side. The dealer mark up I am sure did not help. I guess GM pulled a Ford Fivehundred on that one. I test drove one when it first came out and loved it! Did not buy as I found out I had another kid on the way, but I tell you, it was near the top of the list! If Buick takes it and adds some Luxo touches, I think you would have a car that would be even better than the gr8 G8!
-Schmitz
As a faithful GM customer, I would really llike to have an opportunity to provide some detailed feedback other than this blog. How can that be done?
Until then, I agree with the comment on Caprice. Please leave that buried – for good. Do find a way to continue the Impala name and keep improving it. I didn’t think about the Wildcat for Buick, interesting idea.
Speaking of names, stop the letter/number nonsence. Just because many European companies do it , does not mean its the right thing to do. I work for German company, I know.
When the G8 came out I thought – nice car, terrible name. Same for the other Pontiacs. Doesn’t anyone remember when you tried that before in the 80s? (A6000, J2000). Please stop that. We recetnly bought an HHR and have been surprised by how many people positively comment on the car – except the name. Comment replies are “HHR, never heard of it”. “What’s HHR?” After explaining the name, we get a blank look, that’s just screams – ‘That’s stupid’. It should have stayed a project code name.
I have an HHR, and I agree. “is that a PT Cruiser?” I have to tell them it is like a PT cruiser but a little bigger and less feminine.
OMG, Kill the Buik name and rebadge GM products…those names (Caprice) have no market value…..when’s the last time you heard someone say I can’t wait to drive a Buick. or a Caprice. I started to say it’s ok for us old farts…..but I don’t even believe that.
Come on lets get this puppy running and create some excitement for us old farts and for all the young future f**** coming up.
I agree that it would make sense for the G8 to be part of the Buick product portfolio. I suspect that the volumes would be approximately the same as they would have been when sold under Pontiac. Admittedly, mileage ratings and lower sales volumes in the U.S. make the business case more problematic, but I think this car could be very effective in position Buick in the U.S. market
Here is a simple idea, please don’t be the last company to use the latest technology, design etc. I know, you have on-star and no one else does. Here is a simple idea: how about replacing the taillights on the Malibu with some nice LED style lights. Subaru does it on their entry level cars, why can’t GM. I think the grill on the Malibu is a little lame too. Fix these two simple things and it might appeal to younger buyers.
Sad to hear. I would have bought a Chevy based on the G8 instead of the performance Mercedes, Audi or BMW I will probably buy next year instead. Car guys still buy cars, not just transportation, even in a bad economy since it is sometimes our only release from the mundane reality we live in at the moment. Chevy needs a car nearly equal to but more affordable than the CTS-V for all those car guys who can’t quite afford the Cadillac right now. My dad owned a Chevy then upgraded to the Cadillac when I learned to drive and passed on the Chevy to me. I’m old enough to drive a Cadillac but would still go for the Chevy sleeper in a heartbeat.
Cmon Mr Lutz, don’t try to tell me you can’t make money sellin’ the G8-we need more “gotta-have” vehicles. I’m a GM dealer, ship ‘em to me, I can sell ‘em.
Come on Bob, while I share your feelings that finally GM gets a product right-on you’d love to preserve, it still is a product that only appeals to Automotive Magazines and an extremely limited segment of the market.
It’s way past time for GM to stop trying to be BMW – and wasting untold development and tooling funds on products that don’t have a chance of ever paying for their tooling, (let alone breaking even) or actually making a profit.
(Recent examples, the great looking (but likely money losing) 2-seaters, Sky, Solstice, etc., and the saddest effort of all, the “HHR”, (even the name is embarrassing).
While GM wasted endless time and capital on those products, it could have devoted its engineering toward developing a real hybrid. (I won’t even get started on the Malibu pretend hybrid, yet another embarrassment).
As exciting as the Chevy Volt is, doesn’t common sense say that it isn’t going to sell in any profit-producing numbers when the customer can almost buy (2) Honda Insights or (2) Toyota Priuses for the same amount of money!
As an old GM guy myself, it hurts to see Ford’s got the bright idea, their new Hybrid Fusion is sure to be a winner. While I don’t know how much of that technology is actually Ford’s (or licensed from Toyota), it’s clearly the right direction for the company. So I hate to ask but how many years is GM still away from the first Impala Hybrid?
(Just to be clear, a GM full hybrid adult passenger vehicle that can match the Ford Fusion head to head in price and mpg performance). Sadly I see nothing in the press that even hints GM has anything like that in the pipeline, I hope I’m wrong.
Take note GM, when you killed PONTIAC you took away the youthful and sporty market and flushed it out of site! As a loyal GM customer and a customer below 30, you officially offer me NOTHING! I could not possibly say that I drive a BUICK without getting laughed out of the room! NO MATTER WHAT its a BUICK. When you think BUICK you think of your grandma’s car. I could buy a CADILLAC, but then I would have to take note from your company and file for bankruptcy. There is the possibility that I could buy a GMC, oh wait they dont offer anything but an over priced Chevy truck. SO that leave Chevrolet, hmmmm I dont car about Obama’s lets drive small cars that we could store in our closet, so…..I dont want an Aveo , nor a cobalt or Cruze….Impala is out dated. So the Malibu I guess with its lonely V6 engine, with no sporty packages. No chance you will have a sporty car available since you killed the SS Design Team. Pontiac offered a different feel, a different look and a different car. You could always see one coming down the road and knew just by looking it was a PONTIAC. The styling was always better and youthful. YOU guys messed up when you decided to keep two Brands that are more appealing to elderly people, instead of PONTIAC. Pontiac could have been your SCION! Guess you didnt hear that most PONTIAC buyers now prefer FORD over any cars you offer…..since you guys did such a great job keeping OLDSMOBILE buyers I am sure you will have no luck keeping PONTIAC buyers. THUS, more bad news for GM. You should give LUTZ complete power and give him a youthful design team and forget about only making cars the size of golf carts and make some real cars! KILL BUICK AND REBIRTH PONTIAC before you wind up back in Bankruptcy court.
We can pick from two full lines of gas guzzling trucks and SUVs but we can’t get a solid RWD sedan that’s damn near as good as a 550i for less than half the price? This decision is pure hypocrisy.
Here is your real “halo” car Bob – GM needs all of these it can put in showrooms because working class people with families (aka CHEVROLET buyers) can and will put one in their garage. This car holds its own against much more expensive competitors at a bargain price and it represents a substantial development and tooling investment! It’s fair to say if as much love and attention was put into developing most other GM cars as went into this one, GM would’ve never needed to file for bankruptcy. Dollar for dollar, this is your BEST car Bob and you know it. Since GM is in business to be competitive and maximize profit on investment it’s completely dumb not to sell it.
What the “new” GM doesn’t need is a government influenced management team sending value conscious large sedan buyers (or any other potential customers) to shop elsewhere. The dictator in the White House has no business furthering his agenda deciding which cars are permissible for GM to sell here and you can be damned sure if Obama’s election fundraising UAW “supporters” (as opposed to Australian auto workers) stood to gain, GM would be coerced to increase production and badge these not only as Chevrolets but Buicks too. Keep bringing American car buyers your best contenders if you want GM to survive. Now that word’s begun to spread how good this car is, why must everyone lose?
I so agree. GM punched thier ticket for a return trip to bankrupcy court when they killed Pontiac. Can they just not see the forrest from the trees? Pontiac was the ONLY car that the youth market had any intrest in!
I currently own a 2003 Corvette anniversary convertible and a 1970 Buick GS 455 Stage 1. We are leasing a 2008 BMW 535I as in 2007 GM’s CTS was underpowered and you did not offer the CTSV with an automatic. The current CTS needs more power than the 304 horsepower motor. My son just bought a G8 GT and I was totally impressed with it. We were hoping to get a 2010 GTP when our BMW lease is up in August 2010 but you are killing the car. BIG MISTAKE!!!!!!!!!!! Give it to Chevy or Buick, you already have the work done and if i am correct, you are continuing to market the car in Austrailia. Just get it done!
Not to sound totally silly, but of the four GMs I have owned, three were Pontiacs, and knowing that the G8 platform won’t be carried over is very disappointing. It was the only thing really keeping me going, the fact that I could own that car in one form or another.
I don’t want a Camaro, it just does not appeal.
Not being able to get the G8 or RWD Impala/Caprice means I will be moving on to other companies, sorry Bob.
I didn’t want another car, not a Lexus, a Mercedes, or a Ford. Just that one. I realize that I could probably buy one today. Not due for another car for another year and a half.
The Pontiac G8 was such a sweet looking car. It should not be put to waste. It should be renamed as the SS Chevelle. Keep this car alive. I love it, and not everyone wants an Asian import with chrome wheels and a coffee can exhaust. It could be GM’s entry level performance car, built for the middle class enthusist. To keep it some what fuel efficient, maybe use a supercharged 3.8 liter, lower the ride height, bigger brakes, and concentrate on driver/vehicle response.
Some smooth lines, bigger sway bars for cornering stability, and if the 3.8 is to small, maybe a fuel management technology equipped on a V8. This is such a great car to see go to waste. If now is not the time, let it take a nap, dont put it to rest.
I find it hard to believe it would not be cost effective. The car already meets requirements to be sold in the U.S. and you already have a grill shell with a bow tie on it being used in other countrys. I think GM needs a cheap rear wheel drive car. Not everyone that wants performance can afford a Cadillac. Fritz needs to let you do your job to bring good car to market, let him worry about money and finances.
I have to wonder if Roger Penske couldn’t sell it as a Saturn. He’s already committed to making money selling Saturns right away, this would give him a proven performance vehicle right out of the starting gate.
“…we simply cannot make a business case for such a program. Not in today’s market, in this economy, and with fuel regulations what they are and will be.”
And exactly how much does GM pay you to figure stuff like that out? This spring’s graduates of the business program at my local junior technical college already knew that.
Would those junior technical college students have made a case for the RWD, V8, performance car like the Camaro? In today’s market and in today’s economy. You know, the Camaro that’s selling faster right now than GM can produce it.
Would the G8 be offered as a truck as well in the future? Possibly as an updated ‘el camino’ since you’re getting help from Australia and they have the ever so popular ute’s there? That would awesome.
An El Camino replacement for North America?
The SSR pick-up, although gorgeous, was a flop, Subaru’s Baja didn’t sell and this won’t either.
If a performance pick-up is desired, trick out a pick-up.
Bring us the WAGON and I might consider it.
Otherwise I’m done with GM. There’s no wind in the sails and the boat’s still taking on water with this Captain at the helm.
Clarification.
Not meant to berate Sean.
Only GM.
The SSR and the Baja were both ‘way overpriced, as was the Solstice.
I understand the powerful draw of “image,” but the name of the game in today’s economic climate is “Value Pricing.” Certainly there has always been a need for practical, utilitarian vehicles that are also economic to own and operate, today even more so than in the previous 70 years.
Why do I have this awful feeling Fritz got his way and over ruled you?
I THINK THIS IS ONE OF THOSE MOMENTS IN TIME WHEN YOU SHOULD JUST
DO IT , BECAUSE YOUR CUSTOMERS WANT IT, AND BECAUSE IT IS A CAR
THAT WILL DO YOU PROUD.
[...] [Source: GM FastLane Blog] [...]
Hyundai can produce award winning rear-wheel-drive cars that are lighter and more fuel efficient than GM’s 4000lb+ front-wheel-drive so called product renaissance. What gives? You lost Olds customers, I know two in my family that went import, the latest news is that Pontiac retention will also be low.
Fritz Henderson says He’s not a fan of rebranding/rebadging, what then is GMC. Corvette means nothing to the average enthusiast as it’s a product that is unobtainable.
I’ll wait to hear the official product news in a couple of months before I completely take GM of my shopping list. More front-wheel-drive cars don’t cut it in either driving dynamics or overall efficiency.
So far there is nothing in GM’s product portfolio, current and announced future launches, that are of any interest to me or a lot of other people.
Good Luck
Bob~
You were right the first time! This car is too good to waste! Not all enthusiasts have the income to afford to buy and maintain a ‘vette or Caddy, so that option is not an option. We’re not all kids that go for the ricer models with turboed and nitroed four bangers, so where do we go for a GM product? Maybe your marketing side should consider the vast group that fit into this category?! We would have no trouble currently finding cars that fit that need at either Ford or Chrysler! Do they work under different fuel standards and marketing rules than GM? I see an awful lot of Mustang GTs, Charger R/Ts, and Hemi C300s running around for that to be true! When will GM wise up to the fact that not all cars it makes will sell in the hundreds of thousands, and be content to have a strong enthusiast customer following, in addition to its boring bread and butter car offerings?! Its been said before and I’ll say it again, the enthusiast following in the past was one of the things that made GM great! Maybe the new GM should try to recapture some of that past greatness!?!
You said it, Bob! I’m getting so sick and tired of crossovers and boring sedans from nearly ALL manufacturers these days. Us average folks are quickly being relegated to owning cars that are about as exciting as toaster ovens. And for anybody at GM that will counter and say “oh, we’ll have the Chevy Spark and it will be VERY fun to drive,” I can guarantee you right now that it won’t be, so don’t try that line, I beg you.
You should have had a nice cup of STFU when you had the chance.
I can’t believe this, this was the one car that was keeping me onto GM, and now you have crushed my dreams Bob, you crushed them.
Maybe the 2010 Lacrosse won’t be too bad, I’ll give it a try, but it won’t excite me without that RWD Bob Lutz experience.
The FR makes the sedan is not
Nissan hybrid system to run an FR sedan.
There are rumors that a key technology partner of the Toyota Hybrid System Mazda
Cadillac CTS to put hybrid cars in the Chevrolet Caprice and the FR makes no rebuilding GM’s death.
The next C7 Corvette, the only way to decide if you want to keep one’s Camaro
Really want is a car and the car we want to create
Always make changes to suit the times and
GM is the plight of the effort now is to forget that
I have the same problems and now Toyota
Nissan cars main HV set – the majority of rear-wheel drive
2010 Nissan sequentially from the leading luxury cars, hybrid vehicles (HV) to set up. In the autumn the same year in “Fugue” will be released in the HV, rear-wheel drive with a hybrid system (FR) will be mounted on most vehicles. Nissan is the laggard in the HV, HV increased to a large luxury car set, HV preceded to chase the Toyota’s luxury car market.
FR Nissan car “Fugue” and the “Cima” and “Skyline” and expand overseas series, “Infinity” and 10 brands of vehicles. And when taking into consideration the model changes, most of the models to set the HV model.
Nissan is currently in HV is not released. In North America, and FF are selling the car. This car is a hybrid system of licensing of technology from the Toyota.
http://www.nikkan.co.jp/news/nkx0420090715aaam.html
Color me disappointed. Corvette – 2 seats, big bucks. Camaro – 2 seats. Cadillac – big bucks. Pity the family who wants a full size sedan with some character that they can afford.
I guess I’m glad I got mine while I still could, but it still feels like throwing the baby out …
1gkek said:
“Color me disappointed. Corvette – 2 seats, big bucks. Camaro – 2 seats. Cadillac – big bucks. ”
You do know that the Camaro seats 5, right? Well, at least 4 (it’s rated for 5 but I think 3 in the rear seat might be a little tight).
Where is your problem? EVERYTHING is a 4 door car anymore. And performance is there too. But when it comes to a 2 door car, there’s very little to realistically pick from.
Mustang – No, don’t want a Ford, never again.
Challenger – No, far too expensive if it has a V8 in it. Heck, even the V6 with LESS fuel economy than my Pontiac Bonneville SSEi costs more. And when I did go to look at one, I wasn’t even allowed to open the door. “Look at the interior of the Charger, it’s the same” I was told. No, it’s not. It’s a 4 door and I want to know what it will be like to sit in the 2 door car. Poor dealer experience and too high a price, not gonna happen.
Sky or Solstice – Nope. Too small and cramped to be a driver. Plus now both are gone anyways.
Riviera – Nope. Since it’s not being made, not even an option. But it would have been top of my list had it been made. There’s one real short sighted decision to not make that car. Those would sell. Just the gullwing doors alone would get folks all hot and bothered. And the design allows for it to carry a family. Smart design, VERY smart design, dumb decision to not carry this design through to a production car.
Camaro – Final offering here. The word is it’s a good car, reasonable price, and the V6 has good power for a driver but still has some fuel economy. Haven’t headed into a dealer yet to see one. Just never see any at the dealer to stop and look. Oh well, I’ll have to wait for a year or more to even get a chance to let this one cool off just enough that one WILL be in the dealership for more than 15 minutes. I just hope GM survives long enough for this to happen.
Yup, real extensive list there. What I could see happening was the G8 turned into the new Caprice, and it was offered in a 4 door originally, then transformed into a 2 door version. When the 2 door transition happens, the design is fortified to support a convertible. And the convertible would follow the next year. Well, that ain’t gonna happen now is it. All I can say is with all the auto manufacturers hurting, one would think this would be a buyers market…dealers making real deals to move product…but with nothing I want to buy (at least in stock) it’s really not a market I’ll be buying in anytime soon. I’ll just keep this old Pontiac going another couple years. Maybe it’ll be a collectors item and I’ll be happy I kept it. Who knows…time will tell.
Good luck GM.
Though if Hyundai can make a valid business model for their RWD Genesis sedan, then why not GM?!
Heck – Even Kia is getting a RWD car as well!
Grumble, Grumble………………………..
It makes sense not to bring it. No reason to spend time and money, getting it ready for Chevy, then need to retool again when the next Commodore comes down the pipeline. Hopefully, once the next Commodore is ready, you’ll be able to find a N.A. plant that builds vehicles with the same components and GM will be able to offer another fine product; and maybe even one for law enforcement duties.
LAME!!!
Get rid of the old-fashioned and boring Impala and replace it with the G8. Simple solution.
Regardless of what happened behind the scenes, or if a Commodore based Caprice does or does not make a good business case – I think Fritz could have handled his public comments on this matter better. Just my observation.
Alpha cannot come soon enough. Let’s get moving on that.
Good luck then with your “new” GM, Mr. Lutz. When time comes to replace my current Grand Prix, be assured, I won’t be even looking at GM cars – without G8 there is nothing else you can offer to my likes and budget. The choice #2, SRT8,becomes #1 then.
You and your company stink. You are taking away the one and only GM product I would ever consider purchasing. I guess I’ll be getting a 300C.
“Marketing Hat” for Bob is what GM needs now. Great!
This is what I’ve never understood about GM’s appraoch. Spend years developing a car, then just let it become obsolete and replace it with an entirely new design, one with little or no reference to the last one.
Models should not be interchangeable. The branding of the individual model is too important for that, but only in the Corvette is evolution of the model design even acknowledged (and it works).
I don’t want to buy a car that I assume will be discontinued in a few years, or scrapped for something totally different with the same name. I want a car design that is respected enough by its manufacturer to be tweaked, improved, and can develop its own sense of history. Without that, you know you’re buying a car that will look dated before it’s even paid for.
The caprice was going to be replaced by the G8? I know the G8 is a great car, but all that announcement said was that the caprice is ready be scrapped, and should be avoided. Maybe that’s true, but a little respect for the models GM already has should have kept that from happening. If the car company doesn’t care about the image of what’s already on the road, then it’s easy to assume there’s nothing there to like.
To Mr. John Fitzpatrick Marketing Manager – Camaro
I have heard that the white Camaro is going to be producing starting in July, so whets up with that? I ordered the Silver with the RS package and the 20-inch polished aluminum wheels.
I ordered mine march 5 from a dealer in Carrolliton, OHIO and every time I call I get this same line,”Still at 1100 So GM if you fully don’t understand how the pre-order people feel, Please listen and also look at other sites on the Camaro issue and you will see where there is a lot of people getting very tired of waiting.
So I have a question, when are the pre-orders going to be filled?
How long will it take GM to realize that pre-order people will wait, BUT NOT FORE-EVER, INFORM US OF WHAT OUR STATUS IS THROUGH OUR E-Mail, That’s all we are asking, because customer service is a waste of time and the dealer is also a waste of time. Neither knows anything about the dates or time of production.
I have been at 1100 since I ordered the camaro on Mar. 5, 09, I have owned gm cars for 36 years and been more loyal than GM has been to me, But after this order of my Camaro, i am considering going over to Ford or buy another BMW, my wife been very happy with hers. last chance for GM!…………………
Bob,before I begin, thank you for foregoing retirement. It is because of people like you that I have any faith that GM will ever recapture its past glory. It’s too bad that your superiors don’t share your boldness. The decision of whether or not to bring the Commodore here should be a no-brainer.
I simply cannot believe that the decision makers at GM fail to see that there is a business case. Do they not care about the fact that Holden stands to lose $1 Billion annually without a US export program? I’d also like to point out that Chrysler and Hyundai – for crying out loud, HYUNDAI!!! – have found a business case for their affordable RWD sedans. Ford and the Japanese 3 have nothing they cold throw against the Commodore. Nothing. With an actual marketing campaign (which I am sure you would provide, unlike those left in charge to market the G8), every Commodore shipped here would sell. It is a fantastic car that should serve as a fine sedan flagship for Chevy – way better than its current “flagship”, a mediocre fleet queen built on a 20 year old platform. In V6 form the Commodore’s fuel economy rating is nearly identical to that of the V6 Malibu despite being a couple of hundred pounds heavier. And due to production constraints at Elizabeth, it won’t be able to sell at a high enough volume to be a serious CAFE penalty.
Bob, the money for developing the G8 for the US has already been spent, you know that. The business case is that you have a good GM vehicle that people want and all you need to do is use the already configured Chevy fascia.
Let’s be honest, the G8 does not make sense to your new union bosses. If it aint made in America it aint good enough for Americans! Tell that to the people running to the Hyundai showrooms.
Its about good cars, no its about GREAT cars Bob. If they don’t let you deliver great cars then why come back?
So…the new General Motors simply cannot make a business case to be competitive.
The Impala is a joke just like the Cobalt and Aveo.
The new Malibu, while competitive, won’t be followed up with an update.
Cadillac is continuing to infringe on Buick’s responsibility with the “slightly fancy front drive soccer mom sleds” (AKA…the new SRX)
The company is turning it’s back on it’s most profitable, best lineup….full sized trucks and SUVs.
The new Cruze is being blasted by nearly every European car rag that’s driven it.
New Diesel engine designs are being cancelled.
The new GM looks like a smaller, less powerful version of the old, backwards General Motors. This is apparently where creativity is stifled and the needed product is thrown out in favor of more of the same….all at a time when GM’s image is in desperate need of an update.
It’s only natural for General Motors to take a “Burger King” approach to marketing and R&D instead of actually leading in something. It’s fitting for it’s “duck and run” product strategy.
The Zeta Platform is the wrong platform at the wrong time. Stick to the Volt and small cars, that’s the future of GM.
Sure, follow Borger’s advice and end up bankrupt again in a couple of years. We need to be frank and face facts. NOBODY wants small cars! If small cars are in such demand, how do you explain the recent uptick in truck sales? Americans live in a big country, and we drive a lot. We want our cars big and comfortable. Talk about not being able to make a business case, what about the Aveo, which I can’t see ANY reason at all for somebody to buy? None.
You should be dropping the current Impala which is an old design and rebadging the G8 as the Impala. That makes total sense from every prespective. The Malibu is nearly as big and will take up the slack in FWD sales. The G8 is a much better car the the Impala which will only improve quality scores. The current Impala is the product of the old GM and should be gone as soon as possible. Yo would not really have to market this kind of car much for it to sell and sell well.
So… the one sedan in GM’s lineup thats compelling, affordable, and isn’t being sold off with the ‘Old GM’ is getting bean counted to death? Meanwhile you’re offering four different flavors of the same dumpy looking front-wheel drive SUV as the ‘next-big-Badge-Engineered-thing’?
All I know is that I’ll be in the market for a car sometime next year and the G8 was one of two cars in GM’s entire pre-bankruptcy lineup that I planned to test drive.
I’m no fan of Chevrolet, so may not have looked at a Caprice, but it occurs to me that, while its foundation was sound, the G8 was a victim of poor marketing and the death of Pontiac.
Two of the major flaws of the ‘Old GM’ were bean-counters killing sound cars/concepts rather than improving upon them, under the guise of cost cutting, and mindless badge-engineering (think Acadia and it’s siblings).
Doesn’t seem like anything has changed…
Translation: The Obama Administration got wind of bringing a RWD V8 sedan to the “New Government Motors” from the “Old General Motors” that doesn’t meet their “Hope” & “Change” Marxist Ideological development plans for their newly nationalized company…
Well, thanks for at least trying Bob. I’m still going to buy a used G8 however, I simply cannot afford a new CTS V and don’t want a German car.
Obviously Fritz and GM are directing budget money to cars that shouldn’t get a second look. No one under 30 could seriously tell their friends they drive a Buick without getting laughed at, and no matter how sporty you try to make them, its still a sporty elderly person’s car. When you killed Pontiac, you pulled out of the youth market, there is no question about it. Absolutely NOTHING you have is desirable now. Nothing is near as sleek and sporty as the G8. The 2-door Camaro isn’t practical, the Cobalt is tiny, the Malibu is a basic family car, the new LaCrosse will be a decent rental car or for when my grandma needs something smaller, and the Cadillac’s are great for those needing a final car after retiring and just before they can no longer drive. There are no true sports sedans left from GM. I foresee the used car market sky-rocketing, leaving many of us searching for a G8 or G6. The claim Fritz made to AutoBlog “I am not a believer in re-branding and re-badging” is hilarious! Most of GM’s cars and trucks are rebadged, including the entire brand of GMC: You surely do not need a Tahoe, Yukon and Escalade, or a Silverado and Sierra, or an Acadia, Traverse and Enclave. Various reworked trim levels would suffice and could provide distinct differences. Take note from Toyota, a youthful and sporty brand (Scion), luxury (Lexus), and everything else (Toyota). GM should be Pontiac, Chevrolet, and Cadillac.
Just because China likes Buick doesn’t mean that the US does, and even the sales figures proves it. Wasn’t Buick below Pontiac, and so was GMC recently? Left Lane News stated for June 2009: “Pontiac’s sales were the best thus far this year, despite GM’s announcement that it will kill off the brand. G8 sales were UP 135.8 percent to 3,622. GM’s overall sales were DOWN 33.4 percent and its four core brands (Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC) saw a 33.2 percent DROP-OFF.”
At least Saab now has the means to do so much better without GM. Wake up, or else this won’t be the only bankruptcy GM goes through in my lifetime. Maybe hiring people under 50 would be a great start.
Sure am glad I picked up a G8 GT in May, and my wife got a G8 GXP in early July (second last one in the state of Wisconsin). If GM refuses to sell such an incredible vehicle here in the U.S. in the future, we’ll either have to move to Australia, or else start buying non-GM vehicles.
Bob and Fritz, it’s your call. I can’t believe you can’t make the business case to do this. And, one last time Fritz, if the vehicle isn’t sold on this continent, it’s NOT a rebadge. Selling a Silverado as a Sierra? That’s a rebadge. Selling a Holden Commodore as a Pontiac G8 or Chevy Caprice? Not a rebadge…
Mistake.
How high can the costs be to change the badges, change the front fascia, print new documentation and manuals, and stock up some parts? That’s about all that would be necessary, unless Uncle Sam requires more federalization tests for a rebadge.
Hey, I beat the clock, okay. I got a G8 GT a few months ago because I figured this would happen. But if importing 20,000 – 30,000 Chevy/Holdens from Australia doesn’t make sense at the current exchange rate, then it must have been really dumb a year and a half ago when the exchange rate was much worse.
As for the tightening CAFE standards, GM better figure out how to make a RWD sedan/coupe platform that can get good enough mileage for them to sell. Several other manufacturers seem to know how to do it. Even Hyundai.
Bob Lutz has never been wrong just like when he said firebird and camaro are DEAD and nobody wants a pony car. He makes this claim just as ford is about to unveil their new retro mustang….. And now legendary PONTIAC must go when they are back in the business of making legends and take the mighty g8 with them. I have a 2002 TRANS AM and a 2009 G8 GT and to think these are my last new PONTIACS is a very hard pill to swallow. Just pile a daggar through my heart. The g8 offers me a level of performance, luxury, and PRACTICALLITY that I thought i could never afford all wrapped up in proud to be AMERICAN PONTIAC STYLE. This is your answer to bankruptsy kill the youth brand and your best product ever and relegate us back to boring, underpowered, torgue steering, mind numbing front drive or pony up for a caddy. You should kill buick and gmc and Rebirth PONTIAC and put all your product in one showroom Cause without PONTIAC you are a lot LESS interesting. The g8 never got a fair chance. two years in a bad market with poor marketing is not enough. You should have the balls to call it what it is a GRAND PRIX. People who drive PONTIACS are proud to drive American. We need a little time to warm up to aussies building our heritage. I have and am now rewarded with a HUGE HELPING OF FUEL FOR THE SOUL, Thanks Holden. g8st would have been next purchase. Legends Never Die
Hi Bob,
I’m happy to see GM isn’t backing away from rear wheel drive but I noticed you don’t speak about RWD Buicks…
A few years ago (on November 23 2003), you sent me an email telling me that there would soon be RWD Buick models but I’m still waiting for them!
Here’s the email you sent me in French (you asked me not to publish it so if this is still your wish 6 years later, just delete this part before approving my comment!): “Je m’excuse de vous avoir expedie un e.mail incomplet par erreur, et jevous demande pardon poue le fait que mon excellent Blackberry ne comprend pas les accents francais, du moins pas sans grande peine.
En ce qui concerne les Buick d’ avenir, vous constaterez que la LaCrosse est deja sur la bonne voie, et la voiture qui remplacers la Le Sabre (on changera probablement le nom) est vraiment beaucoup plus dynamique. Dans quelques annees, ( a peu pres trois)I’ll y aura une belle “propulsion” avec un moteur V8 et une boite automatique a six rapports. Vous verrez au Salon de New York une voiture de concept decapotable qui est basee sur la nouvelle architecture propulsion. Elle a des proportions semblables a celles de la Opel Insignia, exposee a Francfort. Veuillez garder ces informations confidentielles pour vous, et je vous prie, par example, de ne pas les publier sur une site pour amateurs de laa marque.
Veuillez agreer mes salutations les meilleures.”
I don’t like Cadillacs, I don’t like Chevrolets either. And I hate FWD cars… Please do something for me and all other Buick fans that hate FWD cars.
I don’t think GM can afford anymore not selling what their customers are asking for!
I hope I’ll get good news from you!
Regards
Phil
ENOUGH!!! I guess we are getting SOMEWHERE with you Mr. Lutz. Now, if you could sell Pontiac, or keep it, I will literally throw a 5000 person party. Pontiac owners everywhere are VERY angry that GM has chosen to abandon Pontiac. Please change your mind and keep Pontiac. Your “four core brands” do not appeal to anyone except the older generation. And they cost more too. Please bring back Pontiac Bob Lutz. All of your best and loyal customers would appreciate it!
So, aside from the Corvette and Camaro, Cadillac will exclusively have the RWD GM vehicles?
I talked to my budget department and she says that there isn’t a case to spend the extra money for a Cadillac when other RWD Sedan options are available.
I can’t believe you would dump a successful car like the G8 and keep a car like the Lucerne that isn’t selling. The G8’s are out selling the Lucerne by a large margin. There is no reason why you can’t turn the G8 into a Buick Grand National. The new LaCrosse isn’t going to carry the Buick line for very long.
Mr. Lutz, I’m more than just a little disappointed. I’m reaching a point that in a few years where I had planned on purchasing a full-size rwd V8 car.
I’ve been a life long GM customer since I got my driver license in ‘81 (Monte Carlo, Cutlass Ciera, S10 Blazer & Truck, Acadia………..etc), but with this decision, I just may be forced to look elsewhere when I plan to purchase my next vehicle.
G8 is a good car but this isn’t surprising. Its imported from Australia at low volumes and RWD is never going to be the primary choice of mainstream sedan buyers again. The Camaro has already had far better months than the G8 has ever had and its only been out for 2 months. In recent history, Chrysler is the only one that has been able to sell a large RWD car in relatively high volumes. If the market was better and GM had more money things probably would’ve turned out differently but this is what you get in the middle of a recession.
No! I disagree. Having a RWD car with a strong engine and identity is EXACTLY what GM needs to have somewhere in it’s lineup. BMW outsold Mercesdes in car sales jsut a year ago with Ultimate Drivers Machine ads and the extra guzzler taxes on some models. While many American’s have bought the whole plug in your car stuff a lot of Americans aren’t so sold. Be my guest and take two adults, two kids, one dog, and an overnight bag each and fit this into a Prius and drive for six to eight hours somewhere…GO RIGHT AHEAD! Take four adults and some stuff and make that trek to some event be it sporting or shopping (don’t shop much you sure as hell won’t be bringing anything back!). ALL of those SUV’s and TRUCKS got sold because Americans had to have a MEANS OF TRANSPORTATION!
I told my youngest son how the G-8 was going to be saved as the new Caprice along with the police sales opportunity etc..and he was glad. You see he’s having to see first hand how pitifull American Industry has become with GM and Chysler being bailed out-bankrupt-returning as midgets and the very idea that some piece of Pontiac and performance was going to be saved was encouraging. Oh well…
My first car was a tricked out 55 Chevy that I got in 1969. It turned heads, was made of steel, its simple V-8 was easily repaired and quite frankly with unleaded gas and tuning I’m not that sure it wouldn’t have been pretty environmentally friendly. It sure had good range and I even got good mileage (I certainly didn’t live at the gas station). I would find it hard to believe, hard to believe that someone is going to want an 07 Aero in 2021 or give a tinkers damn about it.
We may as well all buy the Japanese/German stuff you gentlemen have forgotten even how to give someone a reason to care about your cars…excuse me your appliances.
Based on the same economic and regulation studies, I guess BMW will be slashing half of its portfolio in 2010 then?
Errr sorry What am I thinking, what an absolutely stupid thought. I think they will more likely just make their products more frugal and affordable.
With this thinking the new GM will fail. It will not succeed because GM has only 1 truly recognised Global brand GMC, Buick and Cadillac have zero market penetration in Europe and it is only Buick that has managed to hold its ground in China but for how much longer? So GM’s new plan is actually about receding back into North America where other well established manufacturers have seize the opportunity to claim the market share that GM has lost in the past 6 months. It’s a good job GM has nearly $40Bn to split between just 4 brands because it will just help keep the lights on a bit longer.
I just cannot believe that out all those brands GM has ditched Pontiac. from the kings of rebadging it wouldn’t take much to use caddy architectures as value brand RWD Pontiacs. Economies of scale Anyone? GM when are you going to wake up and realise not every market is Left Hand Drive. If you want to put a car into UK, Australia or Japan then make it RHD. You don’t see any other manufacturer forcing LHD vehicles into these markets because they can’t justify a business case. But for some reason GM try it and fail, and fail and fail time and time again.
You want the Camaro to be a hit in RHD countries? Build it RHD.
Looks like the new GM is the same GM to me. You should get rid of all those bean counters and start making cars people want, designed, marketed and built by people who are passionate about what they are doing. At least then when any one asks why the huge change in operations, you can also say “It seemed like a good idea at the time.”
The G8 is a perfect car for me. I have three kids still in car seats and I don’t want to be forced into an SUV. I want a big car that has some guts, but something I can afford. The G8 nails it. I wish it would live on until things calm down around here because I’m very interested in getting one. Just can’t take that chance right now.
Hey, Lionel, Bob didn’t beat his chest and proclaim to find something profound. Fact is they probably already knew the G8 wouldn’t fit into the direction we needed to go. However, when you have something as dynamic as the G8, you still crunch the numbers, haggle over scenerios, and lay it out to make sure there is or isn’t a way to justify keeping something so good. But I’m sure this spring’s graduates of the business program at your local junior technical college already knew that too.
Suprise!!!
Hey look Bob became a bean counter now too… who didn’t see that coming.
Its to bad the Ecotech Turbo can’t fit in the G8 engine bay or that GM doens’t have a 4.5L diesel that would fit it… or what about an Italian designed V6 Diesel… or even a diesel borrowed from the Germans.
Sure might cost more but people could still get a great performance car and fuel economy with any of those options.
Buick could have sold them too even in small quantities… I can’t imagine dropping it is going to be any cheaper then rebadging and selling as a Buick….
Wow the new GM seems to have taken a play out of the old GM playbook….
Everyone read how Fritz tried to pull rank on you Bob and told the media he is your boss. Dont give in Bob. Keep fighting for the performance car!
Good Morning Bob,
I’m glad you have your Marketing hat on for the moment. This is not necessarlily a comment about the product mix GM is offering, but a general question on looking at car ownership and purchases from a different perspective.
I wanted to ask a question about how GM (and other vehicle manufacturures) markets products.
For as long as I can remember, there has been intense focus on selling cars as reliable luxury products, not reliable tools for transportation. Don’t get me wrong, many vehicles are luxury items, but my intention is to place emphahsis on the cost of doing business for typical car buyers.
Lets face it, owning a car is a huge expense. A consumer walks into a dealer, selects a product, purchases it over a 60 month period (typcially) and then maintains it for another 10 to 12 years before it breaks down and needs replacement. The primary reason, (if my thinking is correct), is that the car or truck is used mainly to get back and forth to work and make a living. On weekends and after hours, they may choose to drive this same vehicle for their personal enjoyment, but the percentage of time spent behind the wheel is primarily to earn an income to not only pay for the vehicle, but expand their quality of life.
Now to my question:
If a car owner spends thousands of dollars on buying a car, then spends thousands in fuel, insurance and parking – why can’t they write off the costs as a cost of doing business (earning a living)? It seems that the Auto Industry could use help selling cars, and treating them as an Expensed Item would provide a huge reason for typical workers in the country to go out and buy vehicles – especially newer economical ones. The Cash for Clunkers idea was a pretty good start, but it falls short when you compare the overall costs of ownership for consumers. A one time tax break of $3500 helps, but the buyer still has ongoing payments and expenses to consider. GM wants to sell lots and lots of Volts, but incentives to the buyer means they pay full sticker price and THEN get a tax reduction “one time” for the purchase. This does little when you consider you need to put tires on the car periodically, insure it, and replace batteries when they’ve met their charge limit.
Can’t GM convince it’s current partners in the Federal Government that perhaps a full tax write off every year for the expense of getting to and from work is a good idea and would help kick start the auto industry into producing and selling more vehicles?
If a worker can calculate the amount of miles they drive each year going to and from work, then they can theoretically calculate the percentage of the costs of owning that car for earning an income.
Since the US has gotten rid of mass transportation for the most part, wage earners have to rely on their own vehicles to get to work. In my mind, this is an expense to the worker, not the business they work for and should be treated as a tax deduction at the end of the year. GM could market cars as a reliable tool “for earning a wage” and possibly alter the reason why people buy GM products in the first place – which is to get to work and back safely and cost effectively. If you can’t itemize the full costs for insurance, maintenance, fuel and parking – at least the simple calculation for mileage coule be applied. If the worker drives 10,000 miles annually to make a buck, then writing off the IRS allowance of 48 cents per mile annually would help the consumer put more “garbanzo’s” back in his or her wallet or pocketbook and provide a financial reason for owning a vehicle. Making a business case for writing off the expense of a car for the consumer may make enemies with the IRS, but it would certainly put a lot of car buyers on the Auto Industry’s side. We need an Industry wide policy that gives consumers a reason for owning a car that places pressure on the government to ease up on expensable items. By doing so, more car buyers may jump in and make purchases, which in turn helps our Economy get back on track.
What are your thoughts?
Respectfully,
Mike
Looks like Henderson gave Lutz a talking to. Sad. The G8 is a terrific car.
With all of the people saying that “this is the only GM car I would consider” I would think that they would have considered the G8 and bought that… But it’s a disaster. And so is every other midsize RWD sedan less than $30,000 (Charger, 300, etc.). Americans say they want one thing and in the next breath spend their hard-earned money on a FWD Camry that is an ancient car that is outclassed by pretty much everything else in it’s class. The best thing GM could have done with the G8 is make it FWD and put a Toyota badge on it.
Mr Lutz, I think it would be greatly appericated (and good PR) if you could do a follow up and address some of the comments posted here.
Bummer.
Score
Beancounters ~ 1
Lutz ~ 0
If you kept it and trusted that it would be around in the future, I would buy one right now. Your business models can’t work because you’re not considering the people sitting on the sideline because you can’t make up your damn minds. Put out a consistent message and make sure it involves reassurance that the government isn’t pushing you wherever they want.
Please, please try again to make a business case for it. This is a great car and would make a great Chevy.
So much for hope!
It was a nice few days.
I guess we aren’t “consumer focused” and are still being ran by the finance group.
The Caprice would have been perfect for Chevrolets lineup. Chevrolet needs a semi upscale flagship sedan. I can’t believe there is no business case for this car, that is crazy.
New GM…Hah……This is the “Old” GM at its best!
Wow – once again, another great attempt by GM at developing & marketing a driver’s car… and yet again foiled by the bean counters. When it was announced that Fritz would become the new captain of the ship, I had hopes that GM would round the bend & come out strong. I now have serious doubts… name me a Finance guy in GM’s past that has been more about fun-to-drive, quality cars than finances… I’m waiting.
Waiting also for some logic to prevail & see all Chevrolet trucks move to the GMC brand – Two truck lines? Where’s the logic here?
The foreign makers can build quality rear drive cars, but GM has yet to figure this out. The GM machine has been throttled by the shorthairs for years due to lacking product quality & the heavy hand of the Union – and recall from US History that the Union took down the Confederates in the American Civil War – welcome to the Second ‘American Civil War’, where the Union defeats another General. You don’t need the Union to build cars; you need hard-working, compassionate car designing & assembling professionals that can have pride in the company, self, and product.
Rest In Peace GM – from General Motors to General Malaise in my lifetime; who could have predicted this?
well, well, well Mr. Lutz….so you say your not gonna be a Gov puppet but yet you kill the sweetest 4 door ride to roll out of GM in 30 years because you won’t look “down the rode” insteed you have your Gov head in the sand looking at this rode…..build the dang car, make the price real and we’ll buy it.
I think the choice to junk the G8 was probably a good call. I drive on one of the busiest freeways in the country out here in Cali. I have seen a grand total of maybe 1 or 2 G8’s. Obviously they don’t sell very well. Not exactly a car that’s going to turn the company around.
I really was looking forward to buying a Commodore Ute with a V-8, dual exhaust and a stick shift. It is hard to believe that there are not enough police customers to justify this, since the investment is basically zero. Maybe the problem is the marketing, distribution structure, since there is no R&D and no federal certification. (The G8 Ute really was brilliantly styled.)
I used to have the last generation Camaro and I have been in Corvettes, Solstices, even Fieros. A trouble with GM is that the fun-to-drive cars are hard to live with, and the cars that you can live with are intentionally dull. If BMW or even SAAB can make a car with a trunk, a door you can get in and out of, a comfortable seating position, and some headroom that is also fun to drive, why can’t you. You can and the Commodore is an example. Spend a day going to the store, driving to work, picking up a few things, i.e. trying to live with a Solstice and you can see why there are so few repeat customers. Spend a day with a 335i Coupe or a Z4 and you can see the difference.
BTW: Caprice and El Camino are not good names and they carry a lot of negative baggage with the people you are trying to reach out to. The new GM probably needs some new names too.
Hey Bobby you must be a dam good poker player because its what you haven’t said that keeps us looking around the corner.
bluebaby
Paul,
I’m under 30 and a Buick is my daily driver. If I were looking at a GM today it’d be a Buick or a CTS. I’m very unimpressed with Chevy’s offerings. It is a shame GM never made a Buick based on the CTS platform (whatever the code name for that is). I agree.. GM needs a RWD. But I see nothing wrong with Buick (like a redone G8) or even an AWD (based on the CTS platform) Buick. Modern Buicks could offer style, performance and luxury. And lets be honest even today’s Pontiacs don’t that much greater then other cars on the road. Technology has leveled the field. Pontiac’s sportiness is all perceived as that same level of driver feel can be put into Buick while still offering a nice ride and quiet interior (both of which the G8 offers).
Still it is a shame the G8 would have made a great Buick Grand National or Wildcat…
Too bad this idea was dropped. I planned on buying a G8 GT or it derivative in the next year.
It just don’t make sense they cut the Pontiac line but plan on keeping GMC?? And we wonder why GM is bankrupted!
Aside from the knee-jerk GM planning, or corporate attention deficit disorder (still alive and well, it seems), “Caprice” as a vehicle name still means “wallowing, ill-handling turd.” It would be crazy to name it that.
Bob
Iwould be willing to bet if you made the G8 a Chevy Impala(not caprice) it would outsell all of your other rear wheel drive cars combined. You are in the business of selling cars and you have a great car in the G8. Chevrolet is your most popular brand and the I mpala is in desperate need of replacement and if you can’t make the case of replaceing it with theG8 maby you are in the wrong business. The G8 needs to go on a diet which is true with all of your vehicles. you say you can’t make a busness case in todays market in this economy with todays fuel economy regulations. This sounds too much like the old GM.
i was hopeing the new GM would come roaring back with a new can do attitude. The compertition can sell these type of vehicles in this market in this economy wiyh todays fuel regulations. Why can’t you. Not everyone who want a rear wheel drive car wants or can afford a Vett or Cadillac. If you wont offer them this type of vehicle someone else will and you will again have missed a great oppertunity. You are already losing sales because the Malibu and the Impala are too similar.
You need to do something to seperate the two and you need to do it soon. Replacing the Impala with the G8 with very little investment is the perfect oppertunity. Missed oppertunity is what got you in the mess you are in now. PLEASE PLEASE do not repeat the same mistakes.
On the subject of business cases and Zeta, I wonder how the current Camaro’s case looks? Oshawa was set up to build hundreds of thousands of Zetas, and now only the Camaro is left on that big, lonely, assembly line. Another hiatus for the car would serve no one – except Ford and Hyundai.
Like I said earlier, Alpha cannot come soon enough. Hopefully even pushed forward from it’s current expected, leisurely, intro date. Hopefully both Bob and Fritz on the same page here
Strap on that marketing hat Bob, and light a fire under some of the corporate slowpokes. We need these RWD Alpha products NOW!, not next mid-decade!
“in no way does this mean we are backing away from performance.”
Your company already did this when you shut down Pontiac. All it will take is one shrewd venture capital fund to purchase the rights to both Pontiac and Oldsmobile from GM. With the right marketing strategy, they could give GM more than a run for their money. All of those Buick GMC dealers left are not going to be profit centers.
You guys are kidding yourself if you believe Pontiac buyers will shift over to Chevy or Buick. Buick should be sold only in China, until GM’s financial situation improves. This would allow the much more relevant Pontiac brand to continue on.
Sounds to me like Mr Henderson should either retire or go back to business school. PS, my next door neighbor is a state trooper, got a new hemi charger for work, asked for a G8 which GM couldn’t deliver, went back to driving a Crown Vic, and bought a G8 for a family car. I thought the G8’s sold exceptionally well considering the total lack of television advertising. Although I’m along time GM fan, I currently have a Solstice GXP,most of my friends have never even heard of a G8 and think my Solstice is a BMW.
Bob,
You couldn’t buy this much valuable market research. A stroke of genius to get a feel for what the real demand is out there for a RWD value priced sedan. Lots of good ideas generated and passion exhibited by real customers. Fritz should enjoy reading the replies with you.
My favorites were replacing the Impala with the G8 or making the G8 a Buick Grand National. Two solid ideas that many of us have been discussing for awhile.
By the way, I just bought a Saturn Aura and that car is terrific. How could GM not sell this car, especially after it won Car of the Year. I hope this is the type of problem you were put in place to fix. Great cars and horrible marketing don’t make a great business model, as you already know.
In the 90s and early part of this decade, GM made the massive mistake of putting all its chips into big, inefficient trucks. Due to “today’s market … this economy, and … fuel regulations,” now you’re swinging the pendulum too far in the other direction. Is it too much to ask for something vaguely resembling balance?
I guess I should say thank you for making my car shopping experience a little easier this fall.
You see, the on-again-off-again relationship GM has had with the American version of the Commodore was causing me great consternation. I *WANT* a G8 GT. It’s very high on my list of desirable cars. It’s attainable, it seats four comfortably, it’s wicked fast, it has four doors and is as beautiful inside as out.
As soon as Pontiac was consigned to Liquidation Motors, it came off my list.
As soon as I read your initial remarks a few days ago that it would return as the Caprice, it came back on. Why? Parts — if I’m buying a car from a dead make, I want to know that everything I need is available. That’s a lot easier when there’s a straight rebadge on the market. I don’t trust, now, that GM will have the various maintenance (and god forbid, collision) parts available for the vehicle long-term.
Add to that the precipitous devaluation on a new car from an already dead brand, and the G8 becomes one of the stupidest purchases I can make.
So you’ve managed to cut down the number of dealerships I need to see in October/November, when I’m shopping for my next car. How’s that? Simple: YOU HAVE NO PRODUCT THAT I WANT, CAN AFFORD, AND FEEL CONFIDENT IN.
The CTS is too expensive, once you equip it nicely. The Camaro is sexy outside, but the interior felt very cheap and plasticky. Not that it mattered; I need four doors and adequate room for four passengers. The Corvette is every red-blooded American man’s dream; too bad it’s completely unattainable and really only useful as a second car for someone like me.
The G8 is dead, from a dead brand, and likely not to return. Far from a collector’s item, the best sedan GM ever built for the States is likely going to be forgotten by most. (Good job!)
The Malibu is a nice enough car, but I want a combination of enthusiasm, good looks, speed, great interior and technology. (I was willing to forgive the lack of screen-based navi in the G8 because of its otherwise great value. Not so in any other vehicle.)
So I won’t be visiting any GM dealerships. This is a shame, because I come from a largely GM-focused family. Out of the six cars I myself have owned in 14 years of driving, FOUR were GMs: My first car was a ‘77 Malibu, followed by an ‘88 Beretta, a ‘94 Lumina and a ‘98 Aurora. I currently drive a Honda Accord because of how bad the Aurora turned after 80,000 miles. I’m looking forward to my first new-car purchase this fall … And was excited because of GM’s product renaissance. Too bad you guys blew it for me.
I’m sure that Ford (Taurus SHO), Hyundai (Genesis), Infiniti (G37) or Acura (TSX; willing to compromise a bit on speed there) would be happy to have my business. But Bob, I’m sorry, you just confirmed that you don’t get it. At least, “just not right now.”
Lame. So, so lame.
Mr. Lutz,
Thanks for taking the time to update consumers directly regarding this matter. The G8 was a very strong product, and we appreciate you going to bat for it with everything you’ve got.
Unfortunately, this looks like it’ll be another instance of GM sitting idly by while the competition cleans house in the full-size segment with the coming redesigned 300C and Charger, the possible Aussie Ford Falcon, and plenty of other noble contenders. The W-body as we know it simply cannot compete against cars like these, except in rental fleets for virtually zero profit.
With regards to fuel regulations being a factor in this decision, I certainly hope that GM can take a more aggressive stand against that in the future. I see very bleak times ahead for the auto industry unless someone can stand up to Congress and tell them that they’re wrong… and unfortunately GM was not in a spot to make a stand against drug-induced CAFE standards without risking bailout funds.
And while I’m typing up a wish-list… please please please work towards getting more diesel passenger cars to the US market. There are lots of people like me who would gladly buy a 50 MPG diesel Malibu if we didn’t have to worry about over-MSRP VW TDIs and complicated expensive hybrids.
Bob, Please don’t throw this car away. It is one of the best looking vehicles we make. I have one and simply love it. Please reconsider.
I was considering a V6 Camaro, until I saw the strange packages I needed to buy to get what I wanted. The MSRP goes from 23k to over 27K just do I could get leather seats ? If I wanted cloth seats in tan so the inside of the car doesn’t feel like a dark cave, I have to buy tyhousands of dollars of extra options ? Who came up with these ? Oh, the same jokers who will junk the G8.
And, the dealer wants MORE than MSRP for any of the Camaros on the lot !
I give up on GM.
…”Upon further review and careful study, WE couldn’t make a business case”
How did you become the Marketing Director? I have no confidence you could make a business case for anything, even if it hit you in the face! Since when did overwhelming customer demand not be a great basis for (making) a sustainable business case?
…Oh, I get it! WE means ME and the federal government – including no one else – not even customers! Good call!
Oh come on, there is no business case because there is no profit in building a vehicle in Austrailia and shipping it for sale in the US. Now perhaps they could add production to the canadian plant where the Camaro is being built, but if they don’t already have the tooling built for the additional lines you are going to be looking at long lead times to get new tooling made and installed at the plant, perhaps they couldn’t justify the cost of doing all of this. I mean by the time they could do all of that the platform would likely be half way through it’s life cycle and it would make it that much harder to recoup the costs of setting up the new assembly lines.
Congrats on messing up the Holden Commodore yet again. Although, I think that in a way, both Fritz and Lutz are right.
Fritz, I think you are right that rebadging a completely successful car like the Commodore into a Pontiacified piece of crap is lame. I could have told you that bringing it over with it’s Pontiac front facia, needless branding valued over looks, and Pontiac’s inability to use non-red interior lighting, would have had a direct impact on sales. The Commodore was a hit in Australia and one of the best selling cars there for a reason. I think a good part of that reason was looks.
Bob, I’m glad that you think the G8 is really a great car, because it involved some serious engineering and work to make it good. Good well thought out engineering doesn’t come around too often. The right rear blindspot, poor battery cables, and dysfunctional trunk should have tipped off some about the lack of “thought” that went into some parts of the Camaro. The original Commodore and all it’s performance glory was not originally dreamed up a Pontiac fascia. I think this also explains why many think the Camaro performs a worse than the G8 on the road, but it sells better because of it’s looks.
Better luck next time.
Mr. Lutz,
I think the time has come for General Motors to stand for something besides sheet metal and nameplates. As one of the creators of “Quality Is Job 1″ at Wells, Rich, Greene I have a bit of knowledge about the efficacy of a single statement that can change the culture of a company. For what it is worth
I offer up this suggestion for your consideration.
http://GeniusMatters.com
Nope. There is no business case to keep the ancient Impala around, or any other 3.8 engine or 4-speed transmission around. This is the new-GM, or so we are told. And yet, the beancounters don’t want to sell one of the best cars you have at the largest chain of retailers around? Unbelievable. There is no business for uncompetitive vehicles at the new-GM, and the G8 isn’t one of them. Henderson is tying Lutz’s hands by making him come up with a marketing strategy to sell Aveos, Cobalts, Impalas, Colorados, Lucerns. The only hope is that Henderson will be out soon and someone younger, smarter, and without an MBA but with a better vision will take over.
Please give Fritz his pink slip ASAP before he ruins it all, the G8 is the best car ever to come from GM, it shares the platform of the Camaro, so How hard could it be to keep it , rebqaged OK taken but in this case the world approves. But I would prefer a different name like: Biscaine, I think it may be misspelled but you get it, or maybe, Bel Air, or my favorite and adequate for this car “Chevelle”.
Also the Camaro shares body, so for efficiency and cost build it in Oshawa!!!
Please bring the car you need it.
Sorry to hear this decision Bob, but I’m not surprised, after all, GM killed a great car in the Olds Aurora, only to bring out the snoozers at Buick (LaCross and Lucerne).
Looks like I’ll be keeping my 06 TSX quite a while longer. There is now precisely ONE car that I would consider as a replacement for it in the GM lineup, the CTS, and as you are aware, the CTS is a whole lotta more green.
The new LaCrosse is a nice looking vehicle, but with no six speed manual, not on my list.
Too bad GM doesn’t want to do sporty for door sedans with manuals. No worries here though, others do.
Did anyone making decisions hear Fritz’s speach the other day? He said the New GM would be ‘customer focused’ and that GM would need to develop vehicles that customers ‘got to have’. If our customers want a G8 type car, why not give it to them? Looks like the same bad product line up decision making that put GM into bankrupsy. I believe Fritz also said the New GM wouldn’t be doing business as usual. Either he lied or none of the decision makers heard the speach. Maybe it’s time to let the working level employees make some decision and then see where this company can go.
That’s right, bob. Keep making front-drive econotrash.
Good thing Chrysler/Dodge still cares about its customers
I like the name g8-GNX or G8 Grand National myself. Good luck GM
This is comical. We have a vehicle that is adored by so many people and, not to mention, has received nothing but the highest praise. So let’s decide not to make it anymore. It’s a disgrace knowing that this car is dead while I look on the Chevy website and see that steaming pile known as an Impala. Once again GM, job well done.
Apparently it makes too much sense to continue selling this car in the USA.
Sorry, I don’t buy the line about there not being a business case for it.
There is business case for it in Australia. There is business case for it in Saudi Arabia. There is business case for it in Europe. GM probably won’t have too much trouble finding business case in China.
But of course, this is too good for America.
I think my 2005 GTO will be the last GM car that I will ever buy. I was hoping to eventually replace my GTO with a G8 GXP or a Chevrolet derivative. Without those, sorry, there is nothing else in the GM line-up that really interests me. Well, a Cadillac CTS-V does, but that’s a different story. And I don’t want any of the green junk that GM is going to start producing.
Does anyone know how many G8’s have been sold? Has anyone posted bought one?
Bob
What about the g-8 becoming a Buick. Maybe it could fetch a higher price as a Buick Wildcat. As far as fuel economy what about natural gas pwered cars. How would they be treated under CAFE?
I think Pontiac should have remained as a niche brand. I think Obama killed Pontiac when he fired Rick Waggoner. GM needs high profit margin cars. If so many people want the G-8 raise the price and call it a Chevy, Pontiac or Buick. Cadillac has shed its image as an old persons car but what about Buick? Would the g-8 liven up Buicks image?
The problem is that GM needs well built good looking cars with good performance. These cars will have higher profit margins. I have no doubt the great people at GM can do it. The problem is CAFE. You said you want to get away from oil. Agreed. I would like to know if GM has studied natural gas powered cars. If the problem is supply or outlets than GMs dealer network could operate refueling stations. There must still be about 4 -5000 of them left. Natural gas pipelines are almost everywhere.
I drive a Pontiac myself, Bob, I know how much this part of the car culture means to people.
I suggest GM take the Haldex all-wheel-drive 2010 Buick LaCrosse with the 280hp & 261lb-ft of balls V6 and customize it for the police. The all-wheel-drive would be very good and perhaps the first for many police services in this world. Northern climate cops would love this car after a snow fall or an ice storm!
Having Buick Lacrosse’s triple sealed doors in a police cruiser (patrol car) would prolong the police officer’s energy level and alertness, I should know, since I was a truck driver that learned tire tread design that produces less noise prolongs the energy level of the truck driver. Put a set of proper tires on the 2010 Buick Lacrosse and the police cruiser has just evolved in 2009!
Add a bicycle-rack/thumper-bumper combo option for police cruisers and this will eliminate the argument for the need of a big truck. Shotguns and long barrel rifles will still easily fit into the 2010 Buick Lacrosse, and with the all-wheel-drive they can ‘yahoo-rally-it’ legally with the lights and siren!
You just put into print why GM is a failure. Thanks for killing the only V-8, RWD GM vehicle I could realistically afford. Let’s put some economics to the test. My household income is $120k per year, so I should be able to afford a $60k Caddy or a $50k SUV correct. Well, not really. See, we have a mortgage on a regular home, nothing lavish, just your regular run of the mill, 1970’s split level. But here is the kicker that the suits, who are making the decisions, and so much salary they don’t understand what “real” consumers want and need. The real kicker is child care.
The single largest expense in my household is not our health insurance premium, nor mortgage, nor 3 year note on our 2008 Uplander, but it’s childcare/daycare/after school care for my three kids. I could purchase a new Chevy Traverse every year with what I pay for childcare. Yes, I chose to have kids, and yes either my wife or I could choose to not work and stay at home, but my arguement is that this blog post points to the Corvette, the Camaro, and a Cadillac as alternatives for RWD vehicles. What? Is this a joke post? Regular people, the people who used to purchase the bulk of your cars can’t afford it.
Did GM get suckered into the SUV craze when construction (and high paying) jobs were abundant, and gasoline was relatively cheap. Of course they did. Most of those people were over extending themselves on credit and the country is paying for it now and GM is left with it’s pants down asking us to buy $40k-$50k vehicles. Morons.
We have a 2008 Chevy Uplander and it is loaded. My wife loves it. At first she wanted a Kia Sedona because of the “great” safety rating, but we rented one for a long trip and after driving it for 15 minutes she hated it. On a 5 minute test drive with the Uplander she was sold. Then you killed it and replaced it with the Traverse.
The Traverse is a great vehicle, but memo to all suits who are listening, if we got the same options on the Traverse as we have with our Uplander we would have a $45k vehicle purchase. We can’t afford it. The Salesperson who would reply to this would say, well, try the Equinox, it’s less expensive and is a great vehicle. Sure it is, but have you ever tried to take a three day trip and put your luggage into an Equinox and make it fit. Doesn’t work. Regular people use their vehicles for everything, commutes, trips, bus service. Are you listening New GM? Is it starting to sink in yet.
So, GM if you are listening. Make quality vehicles people can afford. I love the concept of the Volt, but at $40k, you are not going to sell a lot of them, and other than a daily commute or trips to the store, doesn’t look like I can fit much more than a large carry on in the trunk. Quality, affordable vehicles, that hold more than four people should be less than $25k. The closest thing is the Impala, (which I am proud to say our other vehicle is a 2004 Impala). But, the $25k model is a basically a taxi, and if I am going to pay $25k for a car, it better come with floor mats, a built in CD player, and ABS.
Why in high school, did my then 10 year old, 1978, 305 V-8 RWD Monte Carlo, get 25 mpg on the highway with a lead foot teenager driving and a brand new, FWD Chevey Impala LT gets only 27mpg on the highway per your estimate? Your cars are built not to perform, but to make a profit margin about an imaginary line a suit has told you is where profitability needs to be.
I am rambling, but dammit, make quality cars families can afford to purchase. I wish I had the capital resources of Richard Penske, because I would have made a bid for Pontiac and would have immediately killed the G4 and started promoting variants of the G8 and actually built a GTO on a platform that would have deserved the name and not put such a high price tag that regular people would not even bother to look because the price was so high.
GM has a great car in the G8, but the bean counters are still in control. This car would be a great addition to either Chevy or Buick product lineup. More volume with Chevy and they need a replacement for the Impala. Why not use the Camaro production line in Canada? The Camaro is a G8 under the sheet metal.
Hope Lutz wins this one!
Oh, one more thing, Bob. Thank you for the GTO!
I’m with Bob on this one. I’ve driven this car and I think it’s an outstanding product. The problem is that a re-badge won’t work without significantly increasing the interior space – you would need to stretch the platform and make it wider to even think about making it a decent law enforcement vehicle (too tight when add all the equipment) and its even smaller inside than the Malibu so where does that position it in the Chevy line-up from a regular customer perspective? Not saying that we shouldn’t do it – just saying that it isn’t a simple refresh and rebadge as many bloggers are making it sound like – and the timing/$$ may not make it feasible in the short-term. Tough decisions..
The G8’s that the police forces are looking at in the USA are the longer wheel base cars called the Statesman and Caprice in Australia and the Chevrolet Caprice in the middle east countries. A lot of Police Forces in the middle east use the Chevrolet Caprice SS as police cars like the pictures here. http://www.fortunecity.com/campus/graduate/109/gmme.html
I think its time to stop living under the illusion that the Government has anything to do with GM’s product choices other than telling them to develop a few energy efficient solutions (like every other major automaker in the world is doing on their own!).
If the Feds are directly responsible for anything, its choosing to leave the inept management team/structure intact. What they should’ve done is wipe out the top 200 or so execs and bring in someone (like Mulally; http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14686147/) from outside to rebuild GM’s leadership structure and culture.
What we’re seeing now in the decisions being made (G8, keeping GMC/Buick over Pontiac) is just the same crap in a different wrapper.
This is very sad news.
I’m the only one that works for GM in my family, but my whole family has always bought GM. But when I got out of college and started work at GM, I was in the market for a new car. But I didn’t buy one because I didn’t LOVE any GM car at the time. And I wasn’t going to spend money on something I didn’t love, but should get because I work here. So I held on to my old Chevy. When the G8 started showing up, I finally found something I really like within GM products. And I love the Camaro. It is sad that we are not going to sell what people want!
I’m not sure about legal implications of this, but if we just strip off the Pontiac sign and put a Chevy badge with the same G8 name, I’m sure people that love it will not care and still would buy it! Please reconsider!
This reversal to not bring a VE variant over to Chevrolet is the wrong decision. Instead of taking the quick easy way out, you need to find a way to make it work, it may not be the easy path, but many things in life aren’t easy. Your consumers expect more from you than this.
The VE variants seem to have a business case on continents all over the world, yet GM and the powers to be aren’t creative enough to offer this fantastic chassis in it’s home market is unconscious.
Hard to believe us customers have to beg a manufacture so much for product. Not all of us want nor desire a four cylinder FWD vehicle.
Is it impossible to produce the vehicle at Oshawa along side the Camaro?
….signed Current G8 owner.
This frees the way for a new Riviera sedan / coupe. And let’s have both.
A strong business case can be made to build up the luxury sport image of Buick in order to dispell its image as an “older person’s car.” The new Riviera can offer both economy and performance, the new Riviera can be a sedan and a coupe.
The Riviera concept received so many positive accolades. It should be the basis for new Riviera sedan and coupe at Buick. If GM wants make money and sell lots of cars the new Riviera sedan and coupe is the car that will do it. It would have strong appeal to rising professionals.
The new Riviera concept allows to GM to have the versatility of offering both economy and performance. It fulfills Buick’s mission of targeting Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti while freeing Cadillac to target BMW and Mercedes. It has its own unique style and thus would not take any business away from other GM divisions and it would serve to gain market share for GM. It would give Buick the opportunity to unite GM’s base from Pontiac and Olds into an affordable luxury sport segment. It would be the ideal complement in the line-up for the LaCrosse. It would draw people to Buick showrooms. It would lift the overall morale of the GM.
The Riviera would lure upscale taste levels away from Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti to GM’s luxury sport segment.
GM currently does not have the style range of choice to grow its market share. The Riviera fills that styling gap. It fills what’s missing from GM’s style line-up.
Cadillac designs are bold and that appeals to many with the beveled angles. However, a large segment of the market is also drawn to the romantic allure of the Riviera. GM’s past styles on the Riviera have not been fast forward enough. This new Riviera has all the right stuff on design. The lines are just right.
Without Pontiac and Oldsmobile, GM has no direct competitor for Infiniti G sedan / coupe, the Lexus IS, Acura.
The Riviera affords the opportunity to hit the competition hard with a superior design with super powertrains that can showcase GM’s market leadership.
What’s more, this market segment has the income to make the purchase and it is the place for the investment far and above some of the other segments. The Riviera can offer a fuel efficient model, much so than a G8 could. And the Riviera appeals to the performance customer by its sheer beauty of design. The new Riviera has that WOW factor and transcends anything the foreign competition has to offer.
Riviera can have a broad range of price and generate a high level of profit and establish the Buick brand.
From a style perspective both Camaro and CTS are bold designs, commanding, beveled, strong, and powerful.
The Riviera is a break from both, its sporty yet, romantic, smooth, sleek, fast forward, tailored to perfection.
These are different tastes. They don’t compete with each other but rather expand GM’s market.
Let’s do it.
My wife and I recently purchased a Chevy Malibu. It fit the need for a car and the price was right, not to mention it is a VERY nice automobile and we are completely satisfied. That being said, it is really a bit outside my personal interest in cars in that it is a V6, FWD sedan. To tell you the truth, I am more interested in owning V8, RWD cars. Going forward, V8 RWD cars are the only cars I am really interested in buying in the future, aside from an SUV or Truck. I think it would be to GM’s detriment to ignore the millions of auto enthusiasts out there who really want a V8 RWD car produced by GM.
By the way, would it really be rebadging if you took the Chevy Caprice from the Middle East market and turned that car into a Chevy Caprice for the U.S. market? At least it would have the longer wheelbase!
The disposal and overwhelming apathy against Zeta within GM is disgusting and deplorable. There is a strong demand for the car, which has proven to be one of GM’s best offerings in Australia and North America in years, and yet GM just throws it away without even trying.
This entire “G8 to Caprice” charade was nothing more than that: a charade. I don’t believe this so called “New GM” moves quick enough to go through the necessary processes to determine if the program would have been viable in just a matter of a few days. No, it probably was nothing more than idle chit chat within the company between a few of the “higher-ups” (i.e. beancounters such as Fritz the Ditz) and Mr. Lutz (who I will admit has his head in the right place about all of this but is dampened by Henderson and his henchmen) and never even went beyond that.
In all honesty this was turned into nothing more than a big PR stunt with the underlying motive to try and recapture the attention of the enthusiasts and loyalists who wrote GM off after they announced that Pontiac would be closing it’s doors. It was an effort to try and redirect them to the Camaro and CTS, both of which don’t actually appeal to Pontiac enthusiasts, owners, and buyers. I could see right through this whole stunt from a mile away and I even told others right down to the “T” what the press release was going to say.
Well, I will say this is the final nail in the coffin for trying to recapture those enthusiasts and loyalists. To Fritz and GM: you have done nothing but repeatedly anger and upset these people with empty promises. Promises that were well within your power to deliver on and yet you chose not to. These people will not be buying a new car from you anytime soon.
I am one of those people. I was a GM enthusiast and a GM loyalist. At the age of 18, I have already owned three GM vehicles. The first being a 1998 S-10, then a 1998 Sonoma, then a 1998 Firebird. I had a long-standing passion with Pontiac and the Firebird since I was a child. The black and gold Trans Am from “Smokey and the Bandit” captured my young enthusiast mind and heart and I so desired to own a car from the Arrowhead’s F-Body family since. I loved my Firebird, which I will unfortunately have to replace because of a car accident that totaled my beloved car, but that passion still exists. I am looking to the GM of yore for my next car; a ‘70 – ‘72 Cutlass or another Firebird or Trans Am are the likely choices and are more than well within my reach. My wallet would vote for a new GM car … if there was something, anything, you offered that embodied and possessed the same qualities as my Firebird. No, don’t suggest the new F5 Camaro simply does not cut it. I already own a ‘72 Cutlass and imagine my disgust when I did some research and found out the new Camaro is almost just as large and heavy (or should I say heavier?) as that ’70s era GM iron. The new Camaro is not a car I want, nor desire. A Camaro shouldn’t be as large as a car that is now basically considered “full-sized” and nor should it weigh more (my ‘72 Cutlass actually weighs about 200 pounds less than the new Camaro).
Perhaps if you manage to pull your heads out of a certain place and speed up the development of the Alpha program, I would look at a Camaro based on that platform, given it weighed far less and was the correct size for a sports coupe. But it appears that program isn’t too far along in its development and is many years away. I don’t have the patience to wait and nor should I be expected to. You have the ability to bring it a lot more sooner than you say you can.
No, there is nothing “new” about this “New GM.” The same stagnating ignorance persists and it will continue on until the company simply can’t go on and is liquidated into something else. I won’t support a company that can so simply disregard its customers in the fashion it has over the years. Enthusiasts and fair-weather consumers alike are clamoring for the G8 and the revised VF Commodore should be coming here ASAP as the new Impala. The current W-Body Impala is the butt of every GM joke. It’s uncompetitive and has very poor packaging. Why sell it alongside the better Malibu, which offers better fit and finish, matches the Impala on interior room, and offers better, more efficient engine options? Yet another example of GM trying to pull a bone through a hole in the fence it simply won’t fit through.
And as for Fritz the Ditz’s “I am not a fan of rebadging” comment, well, did you stop to think about the entire GMC lineup? How Buick will essentially be competing with Cadillac, especially after the Epsilon II flagship car debuts for Caddy (which is a huge joke by the way; there is no way this car could ever compete with the Germans, not even Audi)?
I won’t be the last person that you’ll be hearing from about your continued ignorance.
Good luck with what little future you have left GM. You won’t be making it too much further at this rate. I’d advise Lutz to try and get a job at Ford. Out of the Big Three, they seem to have the brightest future ahead of them.
Great. I can’t wait to see a new lineup of bland-looking FWD cars like the current Impala. What a joke of a car. How is it supposed to appeal to anyone under 65?
Despite the favorable press, I have to say that I’m not a fan of the new LaCrosse either. The interior is absolutely first rate and gorgeous. But, the exterior is merely good. I don’t drool over it. And that should be GM’s test for every car in the future: Do you drool over it? Does it make you salivate? The LaCrosse’s sheet metal just doesn’t do it for me.
I drooled over the G8. I had to go to the hospital to make sure I didn’t have rabies. I drooled over the Solstice. The LaCrosse and Malibu make me want to rest my head on a feather-stuffed pillow. Merely good is not good enough.
Mr. Lutz,
I’m disappointed by the decision not to make a Chevrolet Caprice version of the Holden Commodore / Pontiac G8, but I guess I’m not surprised.
I bought a G8 GXP the day after Pontiac’s demise was announced. I had planned to wait another year, but decided to jump while the opportunity was still there. I needed a family car. I wanted something fun to drive. Rear wheel drive was important, as was the manual transmission. Every drive confirms the purchase. It’s completely worth it.
The funny thing, though, is that almost no one knows what it is. On a recent drive from Michigan to Minnesota, I only saw six other G8s. Four were around the Chicago area and one was on a dealer lot in Minnesota. I’m a car nut, so I read all about it in the car magazines (with articles that unanimously praised it), but the non-enthusiast population hasn’t heard about it. I guess that’s what you’re supposed to fix now, although it’s apparently too late for this car.
Having the current Impala plus a RWD Caprice in the same showroom doesn’t make sense. A Chevrolet flagship that is obviously different than the Malibu does make sense. I wouldn’t expect the LS3 to make it into the Caprice, but the SIDI V6 from the Camaro/CTS would work well. More aggressive cylinder deactivation with active noise cancelling on a V8 could improve the fuel economy on a higher end model and still give law enforcement buyers a package to cover their needs. Building it alongside the Camaro would help the political picture of it as well.
Those ideas will require development beyond a simple rebadge of the existing car, so I can understand not doing it immediately. With any luck, there is still hope once the current Impala’s product cycle comes to an end. Please don’t wait too long, though. GM can’t afford any delays.
Thanks for listening.
“Does anyone know how many G8’s have been sold? Has anyone posted bought one?”
I am so glad SOMEONE asked the question. I can guarantee you that most of the people posting here do not own and have not even test driven the G8. Now that the car is about to disappear fans are coming out of the woodwork but the car struggled to find buyers ever since it debuted. Sales and profits are what matter in the end. The “New GM” is trying to make money. You cannot do that by selling cars that don’t have a strong business case. People are here demanding the demise of the Impala but that car probably makes money for GM- a lot more than the G8 ever had or ever would if it were to continue. You cannot get mad at GM for the public’s lack of acceptance for this competitive product. It was priced right, got great reviews and offered great performance with the V8 and yet they could barely sell them until GM announced Pontiac was getting the axe and incentives were increased to record levels. All you people who do nothing by badmouth GM and discourage people from buying their products cannot be surprised at this outcome. This car has a small, but loyal following amongst enthusiasts but there is no huge amount of pent up demand for this car. The Camaro has already smashed the best monthly sales of the G8 after two full months on sale.
Sheth jones,
It’s not as though GM ever actually promoted the car aggressively. I didn’t find out it was strong competition for BMW until I read it in the New York Times. And then there is also the problem that to actually buy one, I’d have to go to and put up with a GM dealer.
The hard truth is that GM’s dealer network is more of a problem than the quality of product.
Thank you for some sound reasoning. If the car were being built in Canada along with the Camaro it might make sense, as GM might be able to make a profit if they didn’t have to import the vehicle from the other side of the planet. But since additional assembly lines for Zeta do not currently exist at the Canadian plant, it would be quite expensive and time consuming to get those additional lines setup in a reasonable amount of time.
If GM hadn’t canceled the plans to produce the other Zeta based cars a couple of years ago it might be a different story, as it stands while I don’t like the decision I can understand it from a business perspective.
There is always the car that makes a statement of what an automaker can achieve and the G8 was that car. The Camaro is fantastic, don’t get me wrong, but a 4 door family sized car that moves is something that people can get behind. Even if it doesn’t sell to the masses, it will still make an impression on people of what GM is capable of.
You make a good point, but I think you could say that for pretty much the whole product line. I read recently the G8 out sold the Acura TL. So it sounds like its off to a convincing start and kicking the competition in the shins
I’m not sure what they’re going to make money with, since I can count the number of Malibus I’ve seen on one hand, and the only one I see in real quantity (apart from the trucks) are the Impalas, and that only because the cabbies use them..
G8
Why not ship it hear in the states as the GM Holden model it is in Australia? No cost to re-badge it.
Same could have been said for the Saturen Astra, could we not have saved money and ship it here as a Opel Astra? I think people hear in the states would buy them because they would unique and a attention getter with those never seen hear badges. Also the the Opel GT built here in the States in Wilmington could have been sold in Europe as a Pontiac Solstice vise versa! Europeans may like to buy a Pontiac, I think so. With the demise of Pontiac maybe we can ship namplates made hear abroad and vice versa, there all GM products. A lot can be said about this subject, with a smaller GM we can offer a greater diversity of vehicles if all GM name plates can be sold anywhere in the world.
“Why not ship it hear in the states as the GM Holden model it is in Australia?”
I’d go for that, although I’d like the steering wheel on the left side.
No way., we won’t buy anything Holden. Holden should have been renamed Pontiac for that matter.
Given the tone, scope, and focus of the commentary here, you might do well to check your research into the business case for this car for errors. You might also want to consider the larger effect such reaction implies for you. And, the corrosive effect of continuing to raise hopes only to then dash them among the dwindling ranks of those still passionate about your remaining brands.
If you are going to listen to us at all, the time would be now to lend an ear. GM exists only at our pleasure, and on our dime – you would be well-advised to give us what we want.
Wobbly resolve and unfulfilled promises have worn out their welcome tenfold at this point. You have the product, now make it available and we will demonstrate the viability of cars with soul. That can’t be done while they remain only as offshore teases and vaporware.
I’d like to see a Caprice built at Oshawa, including a police car version. Importing these from Australia would not be easy/cost effective though.
GM has made a fatal mistake by retiring Pontiac and will lose many customers like myself who have driven this great car for so many years. The G8 is the best thing that GM has come out with since the great GTOs of the 60’s and early 70s, which I was fortunate enough to have owned 3 of. It is a car worthy of the Pontiac nameplate and should be retained as a “PONTIAC”
Why is it that GM won’t listen to the customers like myself who buy their cars? Pontiac is a legendary automobile and commands a much greater following than Buick or Cadillac, not to mention outselling both of them by over a 2:1 margine. Management at GM needs to be replaced by people who appreciate great cars not ones who build them only to cater to older customers.
My Pontiacs have given me great pleasure and service over the years and I can’t believe GM is killing this icon of the auto industry.
Save Pontiac and let the G8 began the division’s journey back to its glory days. It is the car that sets GM apart from other companies. No other auto manufacturer can match this great RWD, V8 powered performance sedan.
With GM’s current strategy without Pontiac, the “New GM” may become the “Defunct GM” because Chevy, Buick, GMC, and Cadillac won’t get it. Wake up GM before it is too late!
Bob,
It is too bad that the G8 would not be rebadged as a Buick. That would make a lot more sense. For some reason GM can never seem to do anything and the imports always seem to be able to. I am sure BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, and Audi are not just going to stop building performance sedans because of the future mileage standards and retreat to their shores. At some point you are going to have to build something a performance sedan buyer wants, the G8 was the right product. GM has already invested the money, and engineering and it jsut seems a waste to jus tthrow it away.
I am very disappointed that GM will stop producing the Pontiac G8. This model has received some of the best comments from the enthusiast magazines, and has done quite well against the Japaese and German brands. How can you drop one of your best products
I agree with someone who previously commented, that this could be the perfect performance sedan in the Buick lineup. Add some Buick family resemblance, upgrade the interior to Buick standards. You have more room in the rear seat of the G8, than the Lucerne. Wildcat is the perfect name. Some of the styling ques of the new LaCrosse (front and rear) and proper marketing would make this a great product.
Another niche model that could be carried on is the Solstice/Sky model. Combine the 2 into one super Buick sports model. This could grab a younger buyer. There was a Buick concept back a few years, called the Arrow, or bring back the old Invicta nameplate.
Advertising needs to be revamped. There were some great campaigns, back in the day. GM knew what they were doing, back in the 1950s and 1960s. The truck “Like a Rock” commercials were on everybody’s mind.
Bob,
M yservice advisor at my dealer, which sells Pontiac, GMC, Buick, and Cadillac, thinks that the G8 would make a great Buick RWD sedan, replacing the Lucerne. Buick needs a flagship to compete with the big Lexus, the LS series, and the Holden RWD design would fit the bill.
Besides, would anyone think of a Buick sedan with a 0-60 time of 5.3 seconds as a car for retirees?
What’s up with slamming Lutz? I assume no one on these boards has a boss to report to that or that makes them do the things they don’t want to do? Save the nasty remarks for someone else- he’s the only guy who gets it in the domestic car maket realm.
The G-8 product starts to get some traction and it gets killed. Let’s face it, the G8 was GM’s first RWD sedan in years, of course it is going to take time for the non-auto enthusiast public to read, hear, see etc about it and then potentially buy one.
Nice work Fritz….the G-8 unfortunately is the victim not of a “marketing case”, but strictly window dressing for John Q public so GM can say “See, we’re smarter now, we’re building fuel efficient cars, no more RWD gas hogs.” We’re nimble.
Well guess what, Ford just released the Ford Taurus with AWD and twin turbo v-6 and they now have a corner on the domestic produced, non-FWD performance sedan market. What is Chevy’s answer to it product wise? The Malibu?
Send me to Australia where they make vehicles with BALLS and that are desirable…the Ford Falcon, Landcruiser Series 70, oh and the Holden Commodore- “Yes You Can” that is still get a V-8 and RWD for less than $50K…in Austalia!
B
Although I wish GM did offer a full size RWD Chevrolet sedan that a middle class man could afford, GM has CAFE to deal with as well as an economy that will be bad for 10 years or longer. The Cruze, Malibu, and Equinox are where the market is headed. There is little interest in large sedan anymore. I don’t see how GM could make a profit on this “Caprice” without pricing it close to the CTS.
Looks like the beancounters have control of you too Bob. And here I thought you still had some cajones to get things done at GM. Maybe you should rethink your retirement. There’s no saving Government Motors and the cheap cheap cheap cheap beancounters.
Bob,
Much has been written here about the Alpha. What are you doing to make sure that it doesn’t suffer the same fate as the G8? Will Osama Obama tell you you can’t build the Alpha either?
Hopefully you don’t use the same overbearing maw that is on the CTS. As good of a car as it is inside, that overdone grill looks ridiculous. It would be a welcome change for some restraint over the designers -look at your former BMW front clip for an idea of simplistic exterior beauty, and look to Audi for interior ideas. Also, are you directing the designers and engineers to spec materials and components that are best in class or cheapest in class? Or do you just leave those decisions to the beancounters and then wonder why nobody wants to buy a cheaply made second class GM product?
Well, I hope that those who decide at GM are reading and reconsidering things…
I drive a ‘65 Buick Wildcat, a (RWD) ‘67 Buick Riviera GS and a ‘75 Buick Electra and I’d really like driving a newer RWD Buick too! And it looks like I’m not alone!
Here I quoted some previous posts:
On July 17, 2009 at 2:31 pm Jerry Wolfgang said:
If GM ever does decide to rebadge the G8 then I suggest they add some upgraded amenities to it, a waterfall grill and call it a Buick Wildcat. That is a name the public will love! Except for my brief fling with a Dodge Superbee,I have owned Buicks and Pontiacs for 40 years. I recently turned in my leased Lucerne to buy a G8. I love the style and performance, would prefer to a few more of the creature comforts I had become accustomed to. Buick could rock this car!
On July 17, 2009 at 11:19 am Nate said:
Paul,
I’m under 30 and a Buick is my daily driver. If I were looking at a GM today it’d be a Buick or a CTS. I’m very unimpressed with Chevy’s offerings. It is a shame GM never made a Buick based on the CTS platform (whatever the code name for that is). I agree.. GM needs a RWD. But I see nothing wrong with Buick (like a redone G8) or even an AWD (based on the CTS platform) Buick. Modern Buicks could offer style, performance and luxury. And lets be honest even today’s Pontiacs don’t that much greater then other cars on the road. Technology has leveled the field. Pontiac’s sportiness is all perceived as that same level of driver feel can be put into Buick while still offering a nice ride and quiet interior (both of which the G8 offers).
Still it is a shame the G8 would have made a great Buick Grand National or Wildcat…
On July 17, 2009 at 2:19 pm Jim said:
Bob
What about the g-8 becoming a Buick. Maybe it could fetch a higher price as a Buick Wildcat. As far as fuel economy what about natural gas pwered cars. How would they be treated under CAFE?
I think Pontiac should have remained as a niche brand. I think Obama killed Pontiac when he fired Rick Waggoner. GM needs high profit margin cars. If so many people want the G-8 raise the price and call it a Chevy, Pontiac or Buick. Cadillac has shed its image as an old persons car but what about Buick? Would the g-8 liven up Buicks image?
The problem is that GM needs well built good looking cars with good performance. These cars will have higher profit margins. I have no doubt the great people at GM can do it. The problem is CAFE. You said you want to get away from oil. Agreed. I would like to know if GM has studied natural gas powered cars. If the problem is supply or outlets than GMs dealer network could operate refueling stations. There must still be about 4 -5000 of them left. Natural gas pipelines are almost everywhere.
On July 17, 2009 at 3:22 pm Edwin said:
This frees the way for a new Riviera sedan / coupe. And let’s have both.
A strong business case can be made to build up the luxury sport image of Buick in order to dispell its image as an “older person’s car.” The new Riviera can offer both economy and performance, the new Riviera can be a sedan and a coupe.
The Riviera concept received so many positive accolades. It should be the basis for new Riviera sedan and coupe at Buick. If GM wants make money and sell lots of cars the new Riviera sedan and coupe is the car that will do it. It would have strong appeal to rising professionals.
The new Riviera concept allows to GM to have the versatility of offering both economy and performance. It fulfills Buick’s mission of targeting Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti while freeing Cadillac to target BMW and Mercedes. It has its own unique style and thus would not take any business away from other GM divisions and it would serve to gain market share for GM. It would give Buick the opportunity to unite GM’s base from Pontiac and Olds into an affordable luxury sport segment. It would be the ideal complement in the line-up for the LaCrosse. It would draw people to Buick showrooms. It would lift the overall morale of the GM.
The Riviera would lure upscale taste levels away from Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti to GM’s luxury sport segment.
GM currently does not have the style range of choice to grow its market share. The Riviera fills that styling gap. It fills what’s missing from GM’s style line-up.
Cadillac designs are bold and that appeals to many with the beveled angles. However, a large segment of the market is also drawn to the romantic allure of the Riviera. GM’s past styles on the Riviera have not been fast forward enough. This new Riviera has all the right stuff on design. The lines are just right.
Without Pontiac and Oldsmobile, GM has no direct competitor for Infiniti G sedan / coupe, the Lexus IS, Acura.
The Riviera affords the opportunity to hit the competition hard with a superior design with super powertrains that can showcase GM’s market leadership.
What’s more, this market segment has the income to make the purchase and it is the place for the investment far and above some of the other segments. The Riviera can offer a fuel efficient model, much so than a G8 could. And the Riviera appeals to the performance customer by its sheer beauty of design. The new Riviera has that WOW factor and transcends anything the foreign competition has to offer.
Riviera can have a broad range of price and generate a high level of profit and establish the Buick brand.
From a style perspective both Camaro and CTS are bold designs, commanding, beveled, strong, and powerful.
The Riviera is a break from both, its sporty yet, romantic, smooth, sleek, fast forward, tailored to perfection.
These are different tastes. They don’t compete with each other but rather expand GM’s market.
Let’s do it.
If all of the bloggers on the internet lusting after a G8 had actually gone out and bought one….well, it is not too late. Your Pontiac store has one waiting for you at a very good price.
As for Chevrolet (my heart), I don’t think there is room in the line for an influx of new models. Let’s concentrate on the cars we want to sell, and make sure they are – or soon become – the best in their classes. The Impala is a large seller, but needs a freshening if not a complete redo. The Malibu, even, needs to keep moving to stay up with the competition. Sleep, and get passed by. So as much as I like the idea of a G8 Based Chevy, it is not the way to go. The truck line is great, except for the Colorado, which was never going to light the world on fire. It needs to be remade in its big-brother’s image, but kept in the lineup. I think a small truck is worth having (as well as a smaller van, as the competition will have.) The Silverado and full-sized trucks are as good as any. Keep them fresh and they will return the investment.
Good work on the Equinox, and new powertrains. They are getting very good notices.
And one final note:
The Chevrolet Cruze has been getting generally positive reviews, but not really the raves that would indicate it will be a world-beater when it debuts here. I know – the American version will be set-up to local needs and standards, and has not been built yet, let alone tested. I just ask that the domestic line have the dynamics of the new Opel Astra, which IS getting those raves. This should be a fairly straight forward task, as the Opel and Cruze are built on the same platform.
Please give us the small car we can hold up to any competitor, no excuses. I am tired of reading about the string of ill-conceived, failed, half-hearted attempts at small cars by General Motors (not that I totally agree with the history lesson given, which is somewhat tainted by the passing of time. I mean, you have to view the Corvair thru 1960 eyes, the Vega thru 1970 eyes, etc.)
We have the best minds and talent in the industry, we can do it.
I also hope for a performance version someday to replace the sweet Cobalt SS, a car that proves what GM can do. With a style update and current-GM-quality interior and design, this car would be a leader in more categories than just performance and handling, and garner praise without a need for the current exceptions being raised by the motoring press. I wish sometimes I’d bought one instead of the Astra XR 3-door I have. Not that I don’t love the Saturn. Thanks for making it available.
Very much looking forward to the coming domestic-built Aveo replacement. I’m very excited about a NA built B-segment from Chevrolet, and this looks good, even in the cammo! Finally, wheels that are big enough! Would love a hot-hatch version of that! Also looking forward to the Spark. Spark will be the real “smart” choice in mini cars.
Oh, and the Volt looks fantastic. Much better than the concept, I think. Very nice work. This will get noticed on the street, I’m sure. Seems Chevrolet is developing into a real world-class small car line. And not a moment too soon.
OK, that’s more than one note….
Welcome back, Bob. The news of your return and birth of the New GM made for a very happy day.
So the G8 won’t be a Caprice, but how about bringing the long wheelbase version Holden Statesman or Holden Caprice up here to the States? It’s probably closer in size to the original Impala SS anyway, and it is sure built better. Maybe it’s not cheap or cheezy enough to wear a GM badge?
G’Day Bob
BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!!
Now we see really see the real GM loyalists. So what if GM doesn’t bring the G8 back now? Fritz said that it doesn’t make sense now, he didn’t say never. GM just exited bankruptcy, so they are thinking short-term now. Bringing the G8 back to NA isn’t something that can be done in GM’s short -term plans. Just give it some time and I bet GM will decide to bring the G8 back to NA and I expect it to be announced before the end of the year.
No business case to be found? Wow, this makes me feel ever so optimistic about the “new” GM. Sheesh.
Saying that you’re complaining as loudly as anyone is a copout, Bob, and I think you know it. If that were the case, one of the best cars GM has released in the past decade wouldn’t be disappearing from North America.
This is the kind of thing that only happens at GM, after all. Your recent track record provides me with everything I need to know. Thanks, guys!
PATHETIC
BOB..you have FAILED!!!!
Consider yourself a miserable bean-counter.
WHAT HOPE IS THERE FOR GM IF IT CANT AFFORD TO BRING A CAR THAT IS CLEARLY GOOD INTO PRODUCTION????
PROOF that BUZZ WORDS like “NEW GM” “CULTURE CHANGE” are just words with no substance!
Fritz needs to change GM so that brining in a car that is GOOD does make good business sense.
PS. I don’t believe you – Chevy Caprice does make business sense.. GM just hatesimporting a car from Australia that shows up all the garbage that has been designed in North America!!
FAIL BOB.
Reading all the comments from customers makes my stomach churn.. thanks GM.. that helpless feeling of failure has been successfully transfered from the OLD GM to the NEW GM
OK, your marketing guys can’t make a case for the G8 to continue. Are these the same marketing guys that put your company into bankruptcy? Maybe the G8 isn’t the thing to get rid of, give those marketing guys the pink slip.
I owned an ‘04 GTO and currently own a ‘08 G8 GT. These are two of the best cars I’ve owned. Lutz did the right thing looking down under for for cars to bring here. The G8s were still selling around 2K cars a month even during this recession, even through the process of bankruptcy. There is a market and it is the niche brand you were initially talking about. The darn thing is tooled, being produced (was) and is a great car. Why not at least run it out through it’s generational run (3-4 more years) and sell it as is on a Chevy lot.
As for the direction of GM, you seem to think america wants econoboxes. Before this downturn and high gas prices before that, what did we buy? Big vehicles. Some needed them, some just wanted them. I see GM pointing the new ship down this eco path and will find themselves with no one to buy their cars. How many times can you shoot yourself in the foot before that foot falls off?
Just another bone head move that is loosing rather than gaining customers. GM already lost a sale by not making a minivan (my wife now drives a Honda) and there are slim pickings when I replace the G8 in a few years.
To top it off, this whole debacle has given the G8 10 times more advertising than GM ever put into the car. Why not jump on that and run with it. Just makes me slap my head.
You know, the G8 is the first time in my recent memory that I can recall ever wanting to own a Pontiac. I didn’t start driving till the early 90’s and it was Civic land then. Pontiacs weren’t even on the radar for me. In comes the Pontiac G8 and all of the praise heaped upon it caught my attention. I went to the Spokane auto show and was floored by the car. And now it’s not going to be around anymore. GM, I think you’re making a big mistake with the G8. At least take a cue from one of the best vehicles you’ve made in a long time and build on it. If this goes to waste and you put out move vehicles that are trying to compete with or just be an alternative to Honda, Toyota, and so on, then you will LOSE. Keep building rigs like the G8 that are built to be class leaders, not alternatives or competitors and we will come. I will own a G8 in the near future. If I could afford it now, I’d own it now. Nothing else. Don’t screw this up.
You know, the G8 is the first time in my recent memory that I can recall ever wanting to own a Pontiac.
I have to say I agree with this. I have been driving Honda products exclusively since 1983, and the primary reason was the crap 1981 Oldsmobile Cutlass my parents had. The last Pontiac I remember riding in was a friend’s Bonneville and all I remember about it was the tacky interior and all the orange lights! There has always been something about Pontiac that was a big turn-off to me. For the first time in ages, I have actually been interested in GM cars and this (and it’s BMW styling cues) are the only reason I would ever go into a Pontiac showroom. Likewise with the Enclave and the coming Lacrosse.
I will repeat to GM brass … you actually got a Honda loyalist interested enough in this car to visit a Pontiac showroom. I think this alone should be reason enough to keep it as a Chevrolet.
To paraphrase Alcoholics Anonymous … “One car at a time.” Don’t go for the quick profit, build back goodwill over time. This would be a good start.
“You know, the G8 is the first time in my recent memory that I can recall ever wanting to own a Pontiac.”
You’re right Kevin, but what’s really sad is that it had to come from Australia instead of out of Detroit. The engineers and designer’s at GM headquarters should be hanging their heads in shame.
Why?? It would have been the shot in the arm needed if marketed correctly. You could have V6 and Displacement On Demand V8 versions set up and trimmed to appeal to both families and enthusiasts. I’m sure a mid size turbo 4 cylinder would have been OK as well as an economy model. It could have been marketed as a fun car to drive, something to enjoy. If selling it under the Caprice name wasn’t going to work, what about another new name? The car is already sold in both RHD and LHD markets now in various countries, surely wouldn’t take that much to get it viable, most of the development dollars have already been spent.
LETS PLAY MYTHBUSTERS!
MYTH 1
A Chevy Zeta is not a Good Business Case
BUSTED:
Cost to relaunch G8 as Chevy Caprice: LOW
Expected volumes for a G8 in Chevy Network of dealerships: HIGH
There is a Good Business Case here!!
MYTH 2:
Americans dont want a RWD sedan:
BUSTED:
Sales of G8 are increasing each month. Americans want this car.
Sales of Hybrid cars have bombed
Camaro has exceeded sales targets.
MYTH 3:
Fuel Regulations are preventing us.
BUSTED:
Add SIDI technology to a Zeta and you get a fuel economy number that will aid to bring DOWN your CAFE figure.
Your new Epsilon II FWD Buick LaCrosse weighs more than G8 and with SIDI in both cars, the G8 would have better fuel economy.
MYTH 4:
The US economy is not right for this car:
BUSTED:
By the time this car comes out, the economy is likely to be in recovery.
What will GM have for the Post-Financial-Crisis customer?.. small FWD econo-boxes?
MYTH 5:
New GM will be about changing the Old GM culture. Customers and Products will be the focus.
BUSTED:
New GM is just like Old GM. Bean-counters control the show.
Good cars get WASTED.
Bad cars fill up dealer lots.
MYTH 6:
The Corvette, the Camaro, the CTS are filling the needs of RWD customers.
BUSTED:
These cars do not fill the obvious gap in the market.
Corvette is too expensive
Camaro is a 2 -door
CTS is too expensive
Chevy Caprice would not compete with any of the above cars.
MYTH 7:
Bob Lutz actually believes in what he posted in this article
BUSTED:
Reading between the lines; you are not in support of this direction imposed on to you from above.
MYTH 8:
GM is listening to its customers using GM Blogs
BUSTED:
Hundreds of comments to this article in just 1 day.. All ignored..
Dear Mr. Lutz,
with all due respect: I absolutely can’t recognize any reason, why not to replace the Impala SS by the Caprice (G8 respectively).
Subject fueleconomy: According to the official EPA-ratings, in fueleconomy the Impala SS beats the G8 by just one modest mile per gallon, whereas the G8 (with V8 engine) provides clearly more power.
As I already mentioned, the G8 performed extremely well at JD Power’s latest APEAL study, whereas the Impala sadly found itself on the last place for the very same car segment!
So I am really curious and wondering, how your marketing guys could come to such a conclusion!
With so many comments I posted on this blog here, I often expressed comprehension for numerous decisions GM made. But this one definitely would be wrong, as I am convinced.
So, please keep this vehicle going. Why not call it Chevrolet Commodore? This would emphasize the existence of a fresh, unprecedented product and at the same time express appreciation for GM Holden’s outstanding job on this car.
Best regards from Germany.
Like most people here, I am very disappointed with the decision not to bring the G8 back to the US market as a Chevy. However, Fritz said that every car needs to pay it’s rent, and that includes the G8. Unfortunately, shipping the low volume of vehicles from Australia has to be very expensive, and I wouldn’t be surprised if GM is losing money on the G8 right now. It’s hard for me to imagine that after they move it to a chevy (cheapen the interior a little, change the front fascia, etc.) that they would be able to drop costs enough to make it profitable, and I’m sure they would have to change the price point for it to be a Chevy. Another option would be moving it to the line in Oshawa, but the investment required for dual tooling (die sets) would be significant, and doubtful that it could be recouped in a reasonable amount of time. (Plus, from what I’ve heard, there is a lot of product scheduled to go into Oshawa over the next couple years, so I’m not sure this is possible anyway).
I really don’t think this has anything to do with fuel regulations or government interference in the product portfolio, but I wish that management would get their story straight before coming out to the public. If you think that GM has had PR disasters in the past (flying corp jets to DC in November), this is much larger. You get us excited that maybe GM has a clue of what’s going on, and then completely dash the hopes. That’s a sure fire way to lose customers and market share.
Holden already export the G8 to the middle east as a chevrolet Lumina so it would not require any major changes to be sold in the USA with a Chevrolet badge.
“People are here demanding the demise of the Impala…”
Sheth, I am talking about the demise of the Impala SS only, not the Impala in general. That’s a huge difference. Tell my one good reason, why the G8 not should replace the Impala SS. I have serious doubt, that the Impala SS outsold the G8 in recent times.
The 2010 Ford Taurus insures that the current Impala is on the way out.
This is why we are saying GM should jump on a new Buick sedan like the 2010 LaCrosse Concept and the new Riviera concept as a sedan and coupe. Buick should employ names like the Invicta for a sedan. Surely GM can get these cars
Buick can sigficantly raise the styling ante in the affordable luxury sport segment. Rising professionals have the incomes and they will buy in serious numbers the kinds of designs GM is showing like the 2000 LaCrosse concpet and the new Riviera concept. The typical contractor and middle class buyer is not getting as much work right now, that is reflected by slow pick-up truck sales. The middle class is squeezed in the recession and that is the Impala customer. GM should completely regroup its thoughts on the Impala. The 2010 Taurus appears to be dominant in the family sedan at the beginning of this model cycle. GM should heavily market the Malibu in order to dominate this market.
Buick should be the current focus. This buying group is ready. They want to trade the Park Avenues and the Auroras, but GM isn’t giving them any choices. Thirty something rising professionals and their parents are looking for a stylish sedan in the affordable luxury sport segment. Cadillac is too expensive for some young families who want the affordable luxury sport. The want something more than Chevy and this is the chance for Buick to shine with cars like the new Riviera concept and the 2000 LaCrosse concept.
The price range should be 30K to 40K for these new Buick sedan and coupes. This buying group would be a new Buick instead of a used luxury car, if Buick offered the style and the engine choice.
The affordable luxury sport segment looks to stylish designs on the streets in major metro areas like the Mazerati Quattroporte sedan. And it you look objectively, the 2000 Buick LaCrosse concept and the new Riviera concept beats all the designs from the foreign competitiors hands down. Buick can lead, without doubt. GM is going to have to get serious and hear what enthusiasts are saying.
Buick ought to have a Grand National version to spice up the brand. We are hearing that the G8 is out of consideration, so Buick could use something like the 5.3 in the 2010 LaCrosse for its Grand National edition.
Chevy simply has to get serious about Malibu sales and take down the Accord. Chevy could still have a new Impala. Buick really needs a full line. Names like the Riviera and Invicta should be used, not Lucerne.
I do not understand the need to entirely kill Pontiac. Have certain models sold by Chevy dealers. There is no reason they could not sell whatever UNIQUE models Pontiac had, i.e. G8 and Solstice if there is a demand. You do not need a whole separate distribution channel to continue selling a brand of car. Just because Pontiac is going away as a free-standing band does not to me mean that all of its models, shich could still be branded as a Pontiac, could not be sold. If I want a Pontiac G8 I do not care if I buy it at a Chevy dealer.
I have mixed feelings about the decision by Fritz. On the one hand, as an owner of a G8 GT. the decision will make mine that much more valuable in the future, but on the other hand, they seem to be just giving some market share away to the competitors.
I call on repair shops for a living, and the G8 is the ONLY vehicle that has the owners asking questions and WANTING to come look at the vehicle. I had a Malibu Maxx before I purchased the G8, and it generated ZERO interest, despite being a quality and reliable vehicle.
As a matter of fact, on many occasions, I have had technicians asking me to let them drive the car, but have to defer due to insurance concerns. Technicians are good word of mouth referrals for new car purchasers, but with the car no longer available, none of them will be able to recommend the car to their customers.
One night, when checking into a hotel, I was parked in front of the lobby, and a group of Marines were staying there. I looked outside and a LARGE group of them gathered around the car and were checking in out, admiring the exterior, and peeking in to look at the exterior. GM NEEDS a vehicle like this in their showrooms, as has been proven by the new Camaro. I have also experienced may strangers coming up to me and asking about the car, and how I like it. I tell them I love it, and if you want one, you better hurray because the car is being discontinued.
But in G8GT land, all is not bliss. Every BMW and Lexus owner wants to race you! I’m surprised that I haven’t gotten a ticket yet, because each and every time, I manage to out accelerate the buffons that “think” that the “Ultimate Driving Machine” turns out to be a compact, overpriced, high maintenance status symbol that offers only a better interior for their additional purchase price. It is also fun to give the almighty Lexus GS/ES owners the only view that they will see, and that is my rear bumper!
I paid about the same as my two brothers paid for their “luxury” cars. A used CTS 6 speed manual, and a 6 cylinder Lincoln LS. After both took a ride in the G8, both were impressed as it was larger, faster, and better assembled then their choices, not to mention achieving about the same gas mileage.
Yep, the G8 suffered from poor timing when it was introduced, with gas climbing to $4 a gallon, and Cobalt sales taking off. But now the G8 is currently the 7th BEST SELLING CAR that GM offers in North America, and the ONLY CAR that has shown an increase in sales in the past few months.
Now if GM only spent a 10th of the marketing budget that they have already spent on the Volt, it might of had a chance.
Bob, get Fritz in a G8, and out of the office.
Bob,
You’re absolutely right- the G8 platform is too good to waste- pretty much as is. If you drop in the 3.6 DI and the 6 speed auto, dress up the interior a little (better seats!) it could dominate the segment. (There aren’t many 4-door, rear wheel drive, performance/handling competitors this side of $40k+) You could bring it back as a Chevy (but not a Caprice, please, but maybe as an Impala replacement) or as a Buick, and bring a little excitement to the brand. Either way, it could easily become a hugely popular replacement for the Crown Vic.
In my opinion, GM walked away from a significant market segment by shutting down Pontiac and Oldsmobile. Chevy has a long history as an everyman’s car, Buick for the blue-hairs, and Caddy for the simply pretentious. Pontiac, and in the final years, Olds, offered an upscale level of performance and styling that is now missing at GM.
When I told a friend I liked a Pontiac he laughed and said it’s probably a POS and would fall apart on me. I said no, the G8 is made in Australia and it’s a rwd sports sedan. He paused and said, what? He was so interested he came with me when we checked one out for real. It increased brand equity greatly with me and others. Such intangibles take longer to pay off, just as it took Toyota 10 years to be known for quality, for GM to change brand perception it will take a long time with a track record. GM can’t be known for quality product with some JD power surveys. The general public has an opinion about a car and you have to change their opinion by beating the competition with great products. A Halo car like the Genesis is surely changing Hyundai’s brand perception from the top down. Just as people are willing to spend 30K on a 1- series BMW, it’s because it supposedly has DNA from a 7-series. A RWD Chevy from the G8 would be such a Halo car. I need a rwd sedan so if Chevy can’t deliver, I’m not going for a Cadillac, but a Genesis V6. CTS is 38K MSRP with 263 horses, Genesis, 31K MSRP 291 horses. Why bother with CTS? Pontiac G8 works because it delivers over 360 horses at around 30k.
Bob,
My recommendation for Buick is to keep the current generation Lacrosse & rename it & reprice it and sell it under the price of the new Lacrosse… ie: call it Century & price it at $19,900.00 and cap it out at $23,000.00 ….. This would keep all the traditional Buick -Bench seat crowd happy, and keep Buick Sales Numbers going north……
Pete Bur
So many in these blogs are agreeing about the same things and suggesting similar things, and they are upset over Pontiac.
Of course, once GM is highly profitable it will be more able to respond. Pontiac and Oldsmobile are great cars. I own one of the top rated Firebirds on CarDomain:
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3317037
So I understand many are upset over Pontiac as well as Oldsmobile. Thankfully, we have leaders like Bob Lutz and Fritz Henderson in there working for GM enthusiasts.
We are a GM family, full of GM cars like Cadillac DTS, Acadia, Aurora, Intrique, Camaro, Firebird, Cavalier Z24, and holding on the STS V-8 for the moment. We go for the best of the best. I’ve even owned a Buick Regal limited coupe before. Extended family has nearly all GM cars, trucks, including the high end Denali, and SUVs, LaSabres.
Once they discovered the G8, its presence, its excitment, performance options, it gained popularity. The blogs contain some of the same suggestions that GM make a Buick Grand National out of something like the G8. We are holding out hope that GM has some surprises for us.
Enthusiasts are criticing design on certain models like the Cobalt, Aveo, Impala, Lucerne (no matter how well they have sold, they could have sold more) almost in unison.
Yes, we really like the CTS, Malibu, 2010 LaCrosse, Camaro, Corvette. There is universal agreement in these blogs about that.
RIVIERA SEDAN AND COUPE
But then there are universal positive accolades from designs like the new Riviera and the Denali XT concept. So build them.
I>The best new car they’ve shown us so far is the new Riviera:
We are told that with the Camaro and CTS coupe, there are enough coupes. Well, my reply to that is there too many Foreign brands selling.
So why not a Riviera sedan and coupe?
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f21/riviera-sedan-81884/
A Riviera sedan and coupe would help to round out the line-up at Buick and bolster the LaCrosse sales. This new Riviera will sell in big numbers. It has superior lines to any Riviera since the 1960s. Its a Hit for GM. Could it be a RWD Sigma? Made in America.
The car enthusiasts need to have some excitement at BUICK, since GM has made a Buick its core.
Make the Riviera sedan and coupe NOW. Build momentum, it can be both a fuel efficient and performance option.
Shoulda seen it coming. A car that every magazine rates equal or higher than benchmark BMW (even with 6.0) is hard for a dedictaed car guy to bid forever farewell to.
Latest thoughts: Forget Grand National, hot Buicks from the golden age of GTO (first edition) were GS – see a connection already. Wilkdcat needs reserved for something with an opening roof, whether it be a Epsilon rebadge of G6 retractable, or a brand new Alpha roadster wiuth 4 seats and usuable trunk (think 3/4 Camaro) just don’t call it Reatta.
To finish my post: products like a halo car work from the top down to improve the brand. Chevy needs the RWD Sedan. They’ll sell more if they use the 6spd and direct injection v6 in that sedan as was planned in 2010. The same engine in the Camaro gets 29 mpg highway, what about the G8 sedan, it would make a great combination. Getting 304 horses beats the Genesis’s v6.
The loss of a large, affordable rear-wheel drive sedan for the US market is indeed unfortunate. I always thought there’d be a significant market for a G8-based, V-6 powered Impala that was devoid of too much sound-deadening and other weight consuming items. Just a basic, no-nonsense Chevy sedan.
I know that “basic, no-nonsense” means something different today than in the 1960’s and that airbags, anti-lock brakes and traction control would be included. Still, such a car would not compete with the FWD Malibu or the near-lux Buicks or topped out RWD Cadillacs. And there really isn’t anything else on the market to compete with it, either.
Not only would it provide a product for the police market (sub V8 for V6) it provides an alternative to the people movers for those who want space and economy with a dose of real driving prowess. Please re-reconsider.
Come on Bob… What happened to ‘cars, culture and customers’?? I drove the G8, and absolutely loved it. I was even hoping to buy one when the lease on my Hyundai is up.
I know you didn’t give up on performance or RWD, your just not making it for the normal Joe. None of the cars you mentioned are either practical or affordable.
When I was shopping for a car the only practical choices for me were either the G8 or the Dodge Charger. For the common man, you can’t put the family, a set of golf clubs, or the weekly groceries in a corvette (much less afford one), and the G8 is (was) better than the Charger in almost every way. Glad I got one when I did. Maybe 20-30 years from now, I’ll look back on this and smile. I can picture it now, depositing a cool million in the bank after selling my G8 at Barrett-Jackson. GM, thanks for making my G8 a collectors item; but the sad truth (and your ultimate demise) is that the muscle car will live on without you.
GM does not need another car with a gas guzzler tax as they already have the caddy CTS-V and the ZR1 corvette. GM is trying to get away from the image that they build all fuel guzzlers cars
Bob,
What do you plan to fight the new Taurus SHO with? Seems like a re-badged G8 from Chevy would fit the bill. Go with your gut Bob – there are a lot of people out here that don’t agree with you….
Ok, so today I went to check out products from the “New GM.” My wife and I will be purchasing two cars soon. One will be a crossover (as long as it can tow), and a sports car for me (rear-wheel drive, of course). I went to look at the Equinox and the Camaro.
First things first, I don’t understand what everybody is raving about. Both cars had WAY too much hard plastic in the interiors. This was expecially disappointing to see in the “high-end” V8 Camaro, which had a sticker of $44k, and THEN the dealer was asking $5k over sticker. As for the Equinox, I think we’ll settle on the Toyota Venza instead. Sure, the Equinox has it beat slightly on efficiency, but I’ll MORE than make up the extra gas money when it comes time to sell it. Historically Chevy’s resale is HORRIFICALLY low compared to the imports.
Speaking of the inflated price, I have to wonder what Fritz Henderson thinks of these dealer practices. I thought the customer was going to be the first priority for the new GM. If that’s the case, how can they be comfortable with gouging the customer with prices over MSRP? Sounds like the dealerships have the same old snakes hocking their cars using the same old tricks. That’s too bad. I can honestly say I did go in with an open mind, but the experience has left me back to where I started. I will never buy a GM vehicle, but I wish them the best of luck in the future.
Markus Kaboute, Jeff, etc,
to answer when dealers do “market adjustment, and sell over msrp, etc… GM CANNOT LEGALLY tell the dealership what they will sell the car for.
I understand the current legal restrictions standing in the way, but Congress and state legislatures can change those laws. Changing those laws so GM can be more consumer friendly and more competitive is something Obama’s Auto Task Force needs to look into and change.
I’m just pointing out there is a problem. It does no good for people like you to stand there wringing your hands and saying, “There’s nothing we can do, that’s the law.” It’s not as though the present franchise laws are an inalienable right, they are man made laws and could be changed to benefit both consumers and auto makers.
The G8 looks like a Buick, it is priced like a Buick, and it sells in Buick’s pricing sweet spot.
So why would you try to make it a Chevy?
The Lucern fails to achieve what the G8 has done. Its seems the Buick brand would be better off with the G8 with the “Park Ave” front clip from the China version of the car. The G8 I think is best position at the top of Buick line… not as a cut rate vehicle for police departments or a few thousand “SS” buyers.
Buick still has some validity in the premium end of the US market as we have seen with Enclave. I don’t think over the long term Chevy can get enough police or SS sales to support G8 at the premium prices you need to import and later produce such a high content car in the US. Also, any of those G8 buyers coming to look at a Pontiac G8 can be walked over to the Buick side of the lot to close on a Buick G8.
Re- badge is always bad, except when you move a premium product form a dead non-premium brand to a strong premium brand.
Thanks for listening.
PV
As the owner of a Pontiac G8, I can only say that General Motors has missed an incredible opportunity. The G8 is without a doubt, the finest sedan sold under an American nameplate. Bob Lutz could not have been more right when he said it was too good to let go. With a little refinement, this car could be world class and provide Chevrolet with a flagship sedan. The other product offerings are lame. I, and many, many other Americans are looking for an American-branded vehicle that the snobish import owners will give a second look. You had it and now you’re letting it go. Best of luck in the future … yawn…
Bob,
Respectfully, I think there is a case for it. It involved using the car we currently know as the G8 to replace the Impala. Let’s face it. The current Impala has been around for a long time, and is quite honestly getting a bit long in the tooth. It needs to go. As long as the bulk of G8’s are V6 cars, accomplished by making the V8 available only as an SS or an option for Police cars, it would be a worthy replacement. If there is enough demand, perhaps production could be started at a plant in North America to augment the supply coming from Aus. The G8 ST could also be brought over as a Chevy El Camino. Again the bulk would be V6’s with a few V8 SS’s thrown in for good measure. The G8 wouldn’t really require any special fuel offsets as it already gets similar mileage to the Impala, the new El Camino would require GM to do what it’s needed to do for a while anyway: Replace the current engines in the Colorado with better engines. A version of the Ecotec for the four cyl, and the same V6 powering the Lambda crossovers should do the trick in gaining both better mileage without sacrificing power.
This can be done. Perhaps just not in the way that you and your colleagues were thinking.
That’s OK Bob. GM needs a real product guy to keep it on planet earth and restrict its desire to put Fiat out of business with a bunch of small cars. I would prefer to see another luxury-oriented Riviera and the next full-size Buick sedan. I thought the ‘68 Caprice Coupe was probably the best looking car of the full-size Chevrolet ilk.
How bout the best of both worlds,?
a propane powered v6 + v8… like holden already makes. Imagine that… an eco friendly Impala/chevelle/caprice SS?
Also the South African and Saudi imports just have a chevy badge in the holden grill, so there would be no development costs. I think they still call it a ‘lumina’ over there, so why not in the US?
Well O.K. Bob, G.M. killed the Buick GNX, the 1996 Impala and now the Pontiac G8. Why is it the Japanese and the Germans can figure it out, the public likes and wants “performance” rear drive sedans. Good luck to G.M. and Ford with the rental car market.
Good Bye!
Bob,
Don’t tell us there is no business case for the G8 when there are people all over clammoring for it, and the press hails it as well (you should know all well yourself if THE MEDIA hails a GM vehicle, it’s GOT to be DAMN good!!!!)
It really sounds like Fritz is pulling a Luca Brazzi on you.
Also, when you have the current Impala on a Chevy lot, which is boring, bland, has only a 4 speed transmission and the last of the derrivatives of the old 3800 pushrod engines, Chevy needs a sedan with some spark. Some attitude. Something that people younger than 65 will be interested in (not you Bob, you have the heart and mind of a 40 year old!)
If GM refuses to make the G8, or ANY RWD SEDAN for Chevrolet in the next few years, I will believe the engineers have given up and the beancounters continue to win.
Why can’t GM just offer the G8 as a 2010 model?
This eliminates “Re-badging” concerns along with the costs to change the exterior, and it will take a while to “wind down” Pontiac inventory at existing dealers and offering a 2010 G8 will increase traffic and help sell off inventory of other Pontiac models if customer does not buy a G8.
If offered, GM should update the 2010 G8 by replacing the current standard Cloth 4-way seat with a Cloth 6-way power one to reduce build variants; or even better match it’s competitor’s standard 8-way power seat with memory. And if possible the base model’s powertrain should be updated to 3.6L DI with 6-speed Automatic (same as Camaro) to boost MPG/Performance.
At minimum GM should sell the 2010 (2011?) G8 for Police use with any excess sold to retail customers in GT trim only, this scenario gets GM’s foot in the RWD Police business, generates much needed cash and gives GM a “transition vehicle” to the next gen VF Commodore for U.S. production of whatever model GM decides upon for 2011(2012?) and future sales.
Talk about “free” pure Market Research. The community is speaking. I hope GM is listening.
I’m pretty sure the Japanese and other Foreign Car makers are reading and taking notes too.
I’m sick. The G8 was my car, the timing just wasn’t right. I’m a gear head, I don’t just admit it, I proclaim it. I know ther are a lot of us out there. I know GM can make the car I want, we just need some vision and then stick to the plan.
I don’t care too much about what brand it is or what it is called. I’m about content and value. I love performance and style. Pontiac was my favorite Brand, alas it’s gone.
Chevrolet is all about VALUE. OK let’s get the rubber to the road. The current Impala doesn’t cut it. The only gear head that could be satisfied with a FWD car is one that’s never driven a good RWD one. Torque steer sucks. Not being able to drift the back end out and control the turn with the throttle is just not performance to me. The 90’s Caprice/Impala SS was too big. The very first time I saw it, it was like man is that thing huge. I was hoping for a Chevelle or a GTO. The car was a boat, but guess what we owned one, along with an Intrigue, Grand Am, Regal, Z24, Jimmy, Avalanche, various Silverado’s, El Camino, and a Trans Am. I figure if the job holds out my family will be in the market for two new vehicles. I plan on a Convertable Camaro, maybe a CTS, but my wife isn’t crazy about either. There inlies one of the problems, making the family happy.
OK here we are at the New GM Co. Chevrolet – Buick – Cadillac – GMC.
Chevrolet is probably the only division that needs a Full Line-up, Econo-box to Suburban/Plumber van. Shouldn’t the Flagship be a RWD Sedan, capable of hauling 5 people in comfort, while hauling the mail and groceries and towing a small boat or is that reserved for Sport Utes these days. Well I don’t think the fuel economy / styling / performance of a Ute could meet the potential of that RWD sedan I long for. The New GM Co. needs that high end RWD car platform. I want one with a V8, and for less than $30K. Sounds like I need a G8. It will be a travisty if Chevy doesn’t have one soon.
Adios GM! It certainly has been a grand ride. But alas, now it is over. In nearly fifty years I have owned many motor vehicles (33), the majority GM products (20 total, 15 brand new). I currently possess three cars plus a PU (all GM) and a HD motorcycle. I believe that these vehicles will more than meet the transportation needs my wife and I for our remaining lives. THE GOOD NEWS! Without a new car payment I should be able to save enough to purchase a few automotive classics. I would love to find a 69 GTO like the one I purchased new after retuning home from SE Asia.
It seems Marketing is making the decisions @ GM. Same old…sme old !!!
New GM needs to be Product focused.
G8 as new Impala would have been a good start.
Bob, I think it “was a good idea”and still is……not to bring it back as a Caprice but to keep the G8. I agree, it is too good of a car to waste. I am an SUV driver but drove a G8 as a PEP vehicle in the dead of winter and was blown away by its performance & handling. No problems on slippery roads just great handling! Loved it…and it did turn heads!
Why not keep it, but call it something “new” and badge it as a Buick. That would serve two purposes: keep it at the dealerships who already are trained on it and are doing a good job selling it, plus it would package a performance car, to a younger Buick buyer. Here in the Philly market our sales team also got dealers to start looking at it not just for performance buyers, but family sedan buyers who also appreciate good performance.
Why do I have this feeling a new movie is about to be produced called “Who Killed The G8?”. I hope you are directing our Marketing folks to this web sight Bob. It would be great if the Exec. Director of Marketing research could come on and explain how they have no business case for the G8, especially when so many have blogged in such a short time in favor of keeping the G8. There has never been a posting on GM Fastlane that has caught so much attention. We at GM know you will make the right choice Bob. By the way, it was great news hearing you were going to stick around.
I AM GM
Buick is what we should be discussing here. Let’s make a business case for the priorities going forward.
Agree with many here that the G8 would make a great Grand National.
Impala SS has a great powertrain and great feel, but Buick is the priority right now. Malibu looks better than Impala. Maybe a Malibu SS instead of Impala SS for now.
BUICK line-up
DROP THE LUCERNE and BUILD THE RIVIERA sedan and coupe.
Riviera –> sedan and coupe ——-> (W-Body, Epsilon II, or Sigma?)——->.3.0 V-6–small V-8.
Riviera could offer T-tops or even a convertable ok for FWD.
LaCrosse sedan————————– -Epsilon II——————–2.4 L and 3.0L. could become the Regal for the next model series.
Grand National (Former G8) —————————- (W-Body or Zeta)———-5.3L instead of Impala SS.
Buick Wild Cat (former Pontiac Solstice) ———Kappa ———————-2.0L
Drop Enclave and replace with new Buick SUV (Saturn Vue) size, let GMC keep the Acadia and the Denali XT. Enclave doesn’t need to compete with Acadia, they are offered at the same dealership.
Small Buick sedan skylark ————————————- 2.0L.
GM should not make some old persons version for the next Lucerne. Let’s hope they listen to GM enthusiast and drops the Lucerne, and builds a new Riviera sedan and coupe based on some of the concepts we’ve seen.
GREAT DESIGNS
Shanghai Riviera concept is great.
2000 LaCrosse concept was great which resembles the Aurora with a window dip powered by a small V-8. (no oval grills please).
Why won’t GM make these beautiful CARS and offer them with a small V-8 option. What’s the problem? This is a strong business case to make these types of cars in order for GM to take back the market share in the affordable luxury sport segment.
We hope GM is listening to enthusiasts.
Chevrolet Car
Corvette
Camaro
Malibu
Cruze
Astra (from Saturn)
Stinger (Saturn Sky).
Aveo?
Cobalt?
Cadillac car
small sedan and wagon.
CTS sedan and coupe.
XTS (small V-8 option).
Alpha Roadster.
V-series performance.
In summary, the Pontiac G8 (base/GT/GXP) is a terrific, world-class affordable sport sedan, and another proof that GM can deliver great vehicles. Abandoning the G8 is a missed opportunity and will leave a huge hole in GM’s portfolio. GM failed to advertise the G8, especially when it is praised by all the car magazines, often hostile to GM’s offerings in the past (but not in recent years). The Camaro is a great car but its large doors and limited rear seating cannot suit my needs. I recently bought a G8 GT and I’m delighted. This is the only sport sedan offered by GM other than the much more expensive Cadillacs.
Rebadging a bad vehicle is never a good idea but things are different for an outstanding vehicle. I agree that Caprice is not the right name but Chevrolet needs absolutely a RWD sport sedan now to compete. I just hope there’s one in the pipeline.
We know, Bob, you wanted to keep/rebadge the G8. You should have made it a condition of your return with GM in your new role. Fritz was wrong on this one and as a consequence is being re-badged as a beancounter.
Seems like our “Customers, Cars, Culture” focus didn’t make it too far.
There are loads of people begging for this car to be brought over. We should try giving our new mantra half a chance and not only LISTEN to what customers are saying, but actually RESPOND and ACT in a positive manner (give them what they want!). Customers? Check.
This car is a winner. Flat out. THIS is the type of car us Americans want to buy. Cars? Check.
Culture? Well I’ll have to check with the bean counters and get back to you…
BTW, it’s not a rebadge if it’s not available elsewhere. As long as you don’t sell it in Australia alongside Holden then there shouldn’t be any concern at all about ‘badge engineering’.
So, Bob, any chance you get to hire a few car guys anytime soon, or should automotive enthusiasts start getting degrees in finance instead?
And speaking of business cases: Let’s take a look at some them from an enthusiast point of view . . . . .
Mr. Welburn claims that with the Camaro and the CTS coupe there’s no room for a Buick Riviera, though he would like to do a Riviera.
Again, Why not a Riviera sedan and coupe?
Why can’t we build use the new Riviera concept design, its fantastic.
Park Avenue – Why hasn’t GM built the beautiful 2000 LaCrosse concept with the window dip, instead of the slow selling Lucerne?
Business case you say?
Lack luster designs=slow sellers.
There are way too many foreign cars selling in sedans and coupes in the affordable luxury segment. THAT IS THE BUSINESS CASE.
If I had one of those nice offices in the Renaissance Center, I’d be asking why we haven’t built the Riviera concept and the 2000 LaCrosse concept.
When we can pull up images on google of great looking GM concepts like these and say these are the CARS WE WANT TO BUY, and then we hear that someone says well there’s no business case?
We read that it only cost $300 million to make the new upscale GM Ultra V-8. That’s small investment for such great engine for GM’s luxury line-up. Fuel efficient small V-8 is the way GM can retake the luxury market. Now that GM is lean and mean, lets see some more of the mean get tough serious and outdue the competition on design and engines.
Well, we’ve already pointed out that the Riviera can be a sedan and a coupe with a better business case than a replacement for the Lucerne. The Riviera is romantic and sensuous in a sedan or a coupe and could be FWD. The CTS is bold and edgy, the Camaro targets Eurosport and American muscle. These styles do not compete. Further we believe the 2000 LaCrosse concept is fantastic for Buick as well as the Shanghai Riviera concept. Buick should build both designs. (no oval grills please).
Now if GM is talking about Building the 2000 LaCrosse concept and calling it a Lucerne, I’d still prefer to see it called a Riviera or Park Avenue. Let’s go with the classic names to energize the customer enthusiasm. When people still like the Park Avenue and the Aurora better than the Lucerne, which is the case by the way, that is the business case for building the 2000 LaCrosse concept with the window dip.
What was the business case for the less than enthusiastsic designs? GM should have listened to enthusiasts.
Why wasn’t the Enclave given to Cadillac if we can’t build a Riviera. You see? Why wasn’t the SRX wagon given to Buick? There is a much stronger business case for giving the SRX to Buick and giving the Enclave to Cadillac. Buick dealers already have the Acada, but Cadillac dealers nothing to offer. Likewise Buick dealers needed a wagon. Well, now they have the GMC wagon. Many buyers of the Lexus RX only buy it because its easier to park at their park garage at work than the Escalade. Thus there is a much stronger business case to have given the Enclave to Cadillac.
Please do not lecture GM enthusiasts about business cases. We have made much better suggestions to GM about which cars to build and we’ve been right much more often in retrospect.
GM enthusiasts had asked GM for years about making a stylish Cutlass Supreme, then Dodge responded with the Intrepid and took Oldsmobiles customers.
And how about getting some American content into the G8 (Grand National)? American content sells, just look at the foreign models using American content.
When we see people on our street with one foreign model and one new American model in their garage, that is a business case for building great cars. GM needs to take back the car business.
Stopped at the Chevy 21 dealership near Bethlehem PA to look at a Camaro. They had a sticker in the window for “Market Conditions Adjustment” that added $5,000 to the price of the car ! I laughed and left. GM needs to look no further than these kind of dealer practices to know why the company is failing. I remember when the Solstice came out, and the SSR before that, the same tactics were used by your dealers. Too bad you didn’t look into these kind of dealer business practices when you chose which dealers to shut down. That extra $5,000 buys one hell of a nice Mustang !
“They had a sticker in the window for “Market Conditions Adjustment” that added $5,000 to the price of the car ! I laughed and left. That extra $5,000 buys one hell of a nice Mustang!”
When will GM take control of such odious practices? What may seem like a short term gain for the dealer only creates a harmful and unfavorable impression for the entire GM brand over the long run.
A key part of any GM effort to get off the ground has to include exercising a firm hand over their dealer network and making them comply with certain minimum standards of conduct. Mark LaNeve, VP of sales and marketing, what is your response to Ted’s experience?
Dave Gill Chevrolet, Columbus, Ohio also had mark-up stickers in the $2,000-$3,000 range. They weren’t so brazen to call it a Market Value Adjustment, it was a bunch of crap dealer options like some security beacon. Kind of reminds me of the clear coat the Bill Macy character in Fargo was trying to sell. Considering the only reason you guys are in business is because of the American public, now is NOT the time to be gouging people.
While it is apparent that the G8 will not move on, there are still G8 models left on the dealer lot. Those of you who want one and even those who never considered one in the first place – really need to look at this vehicle. The value for the money, the driving experience, and the features the G8 offer in the segment are all top finishes in my book. Read the magazines, online blogs, and listen to people at car events. I can’t wait to have to go somewhere to get in and go. I’ll be more than happy to make an extended outing just to enjoy the car.
I just purchased a G8 GXP with the manual transmission. This car is the best vehicle I have owned or driven in the last 10 years and then some. I was about to purchase a GT not long ago when I found the GXP. Both of them offer something many competitors can’t – value. I waited for the G8 for a long time, and it was worth the wait. I hear comments from everyone regarding the demise, but I also point them to the showroom – if you want one NOW badly, go ahead and buy it. You will never regret the experience. I gladly make my car note each month when previously, I considered it more of an expense instead of a fun factor- who can say that? Really?
Friends who own foreign makes are commenting on the value of the G8 and the appearance and I am sure in the very near future, they will be purchasing one. I have never heard such positive responses to a vehicle, aside from the new Camaro and a Typhoon!
Consider the GT a 4 door Camaro and have at it. Consider the GXP a 4 door Camaro SS, and have at it – while you can.
Thanks for building it, I couldn’t think of a better end to Pontiac [since there has to be one]…might as well do it big.
Mr. Lutz,
I hope you can prove me wrong, but it looks like the same old GM at work here. A great car platform is being killed by the bean counters without letting the design have a chance in the market. You guys have killed the G8, and the Solstice (guess you couldn’t let Corvette have a affordable competitor under the same roof, just like the Fiero of the 1980’s). The rear wheel drive cars that you listed above is so far above what I can afford that it’s not funny. I never thought I would say this, but I’m done with GM until you can prove to me the company has truly changed for the better, and not just a rebadge of the same old stodgy company who’s product line is only of good quality once you hit the higher priced models (Corvette, Camaro,Volt, Cadillac, and Buick. The cars for the average Joe are mediocre at best. My mother-in law has a 2005 Cobalt that runs great, but the ride is noisy, rough, and has an interior that screams CHEAP. The back seat is cramped and uncomfortable for an adult to sit in for long periods also. For GM to reinvent itself and to sell large numbers of cars, it will have to have a high quality, yet affordable cars for the average Joe.
The consensus is GM no longer offers anything appealing. Reading all the comments in this thread makes it apparent consumers want a car that is affordable and fun to drive. They would also like the car to be a bit classy and efficient so they could be proud of it. RWD/FWD, names, rebadging, etc isn’t as important as the basic criteria. It’s true that it is tough to buld something that fills all those requirements (it’s like a balancing act) but other manufacturers are succeeding. It seems GM.isn’t even trying to build something buyers want and time is running out for them to get their act together.
Bob, I understand that you’re being put in a very difficult situation here, but now is not the time to abandon your conviction and fundamental laws of management. I have a suggestion: go read a chapter entitled “The Customer Isn’t Always Right” in a book written by a great businessman named Robert A Lutz. You and I both know that the G8 is one of the best products from any manufacturer in its segment, but the public doesn’t. Examine the number of people who test drive a G8 and buy it, and compare that to benchmarks rather than simply looking at sales figures. The bottom line is that people aren’t coming to look at the car without a massive incentive to pull them in. That’s where your marketing division comes in. If you can lead a marketing team as effectively as you’ve lead the product division, you can get customers in the showrooms without huge incentives. Restyle and rebadge the G8 and you have an exceptional car with for very little in additional fixed expenses.
Right now, you’re thinking with the old GM, and really the Corporate America mentality that thinks a marketing dollar spent is different than an engineering dollar. It isn’t the case. The morons who think they’re talking sense into you are saying “We need the marketing budget for other cars, so let’s throw away an enormous investment in product development to make some space.” This is one company, and the money spent on successfully marketing the G8 is diminutive compared to the cost of fully designing a car that good.
Bob,
Maybe too many business cases was what got GM into trouble. I never met a Harvard MBA who could run an auto manufacturer or an airline, for that matter. They should stick to screwing up Wall Street and banks.
Gereon-
You have a good idea of replacing the current Impala SS with the G8.
Thanks for your agreement. By the way – how is it in The States? Are there also certain companies, which can import special models, which are not on sale regularly, and make them registry-ready? For example, here in Germany there exist dealers like “Vettes and More” (near Kassel, State of Hesse), where you could order a Pontiac G8 GT for just 38.900 Euros so far. That’s more expensive than in the US of course, but still a red hot deal in comparison to any European car of this size and performance.
If there would exist similar special dealerships in the US, these guys theoretically could import for you a Chevy Lumina, Chevy CSV CR8 or Chevy Caprice (all Holden derived) from GM Arabia.
Further famous importers over here are Geiger Cars in Munich or “US Cars 24″. Check their websites, if you are curious.
Gereon-
I am not sure there are dealerships that import these cars. And I think the auto manufacturers frown upon it.
I guess we aren’t “consumer focused” and are still being ran by the finance group
God I hope not.
On the surface, I agree that the business case for the G8 seems to be weak. The car never sold at very high levels as a Pontiac AND Holden appears to be a high cost producer. I don’t think the G8 works as a Chevrolet at the price points Pontiac had to sell it. They can’t make money on the car selling it at a Chevrolet price.
That said, all GM has to do is change the front fascia and it seems like it could pretty easily become a Chevrolet. It probably would sell at higher volumes and would offer something no other automaker (except Chrysler) has … an affordable RWD sedan. If I were GM, I’d probably do it because you already have the car engineered AND it will at least capture the G8’s projected sales AND it would have another ready market as a police sedan.
Trouble is, they won’t be able to make money on the vehicle. But if they don’t lose money, and they are keeping a segment of their customers happy, why not?
One thing though: I would try giving the car a different front fascia for police use. Maybe you can also go back to the Caprice-Impala 3-rear light/Bel Air-Biscayne 2-rear light array so the car doesn’t get cheapened?
This almost sounds like the early 1980’s all over again.
Why not power the Pontiac G8 with a more fuel efficient turbo charged V6 engine to meet the demand for more fuel efficient vehicles and see if there are ways to reduce the vehicle weight.
Give it a well known Buick nameplate and offer a special high performance edition in all black called a GNX or Grand National. People were lining up in showrooms back in 1987 to get one of these and will again if you can make it happen.
I love the G8 – not the name, not the brand – the car! I am currently driving across country for 4 weeks on my annual family road trip from Michigan to San Francisco to Crater Lake to Yellowstone/Grand Teton, to Rushmore, the Black Hills and back to Michigan. 7000 miles with better than sticker gas mileage (27 highway @ 75mph); all the power (with just the V6 5 speed) and handling even with a trunk full of luggage and kids in the backseat. This is a great car!
How can it be that there is no business case when the car is engineered, tested, certified, built and has a following? All you need to do is swap the Holden Lion for a Chevy Bow Tie and shazam – it’s a beautiful (immediately better looking than the fakey Pontiac hood scoops) Chevy. What could that cost – $10! How can this possibly be a resource drain?
How should you market this car? I showed my 81 year old Chinese emigrant father-in-law in San Francisco what I was driving – his reaction – ho hum just another car. Then I explained this is from Austalia and is part of what’s right with GM – next thing I know he wants a ride, then he’s telling all the relatives and friends. This is a world class – comes from down under – sports sedan that’s part of what’s right with GM. That’s how you market the car.
The reasoning on how this is not the right time or place and we don’t have resources – the first thought that came into my head when I read this was everything that’s wrong with old GM and that is now suppose to be done away with in the “new GM”. How is this a focus on “Customers, Cars and Culture”? This is the reasoning that typifies old culture that robs us of the cars and alienates the customer. Already it appears nothing is different. Do the right thing, Bob! And while you’re at it, bring over the Ute as an El Camino – the work was already done on that too.
Eric
“Brute Force” – I agree that the Camaro is too large and too heavy. Hopefully, it continues to sell briskly, for the good of the brand.
Next time around though, the Camaro Team needs to have this definition tattooed to their foreheads….
PONY CAR: AN AFFORDABLE, COMPACT, HIGHLY STYLED CAR WITH A SPORTY OR PERFORMACE-ORIENTED IMAGE.
And since when, in any part of history, did a Camaro EVER look like a Mustang Mach 1 or a Charger? NEVER. Looks like GM is a follower, not a leader.
Petra,
The current Camaro looks like a blend of the current Mustang and the current Challenger ~ except for those gun turret windows.
Dear Bob,
Not sure why we have to continue the brand charade for the G8. In fact if you take away the Vette and the Camaro, all the cars in Pontiac’s and Chevy line up look the same anyway. I would actually keep the Chevy brand for cars that stand for something and use the Pontiac brand as the other GM brand that brings all the visually non descript, sort of cool, but not really, sort of looks like nothing cars to market.
At least the Chevy brand would not be diluted any longer.
Very simple: I own a G8 GT and it is THE BEST CAR I have ever owned, killing this car is a huge mistake from a marketing standpoint besides the fact that it is a great car and only would have sold more and more. It almost singlehandedly got Pontiac back on it’s feet and had generated more publicity than all other GM cars combined. I routinely get looks, stares and yells at car shows. You kill this car for good and you will kill a lot of goodwill you were starting to get back along with respect. GM is not respected because it has no guts. we thought finally someone was going to look at the wimps who now run it straight in the eye and say: We are going to continue to build this car because even if YOU don’t get it Fritz, I and many many others still do” We want a car like this and have wanted a car like this for many years, you gave it to us and now you take it away This is the stuff of another wimpy car company which is the main reason you guys are going down, no character, stop catering to the wimpos in this world and sell at least a few cars that motor heads want, because they are the stars of your stable of boring mobiles, they are the cars that EVERYONE looks at and yells at in car shows. You guys are really blowing it.
Bob,
Look at all these messages about the G8 not being financially able to be rebadged into a police car. You and the bean counters sure know how to flush out the cops from behind the billboard with this website of yours!
Bob
I think it is a good idea not to sell the G8 in the USA.
Americans don’t deserve a great car like the G8.
I am disappointed in some of the choices still being made by GM (at least from what I can see). I have been a loyal customer for 40 years (owning GM always), Just because I am a boomer, and a female does not mean that I have lost my sense of style. The look is important when your customers buy. The Chev look is aged………..! For the last 10 years we have had to look to the Pontiac lineup for anything that had style. Even the names of the Chev cars is dated. We loved our G6 and our next vehicle would have been the G8. I completely disagree with the decision to keep the Chev look. The lease on my G6 will expire in March 10, and I will, for the first time in years, be forced to look outside of GM for a vehicle. I wonder if GM is listening really….it would seem that many people feel that the look of the Chev lineup has long since expired.
I expect things will be constantly changing with GM, I won’t be taking any news too seriously until I see proof or actual plans set in motion from now on.
Find a way, please. If not today then tomorrow although CAFE seems to make that highly unlikely.
As a former employee of GM it is sad to see someone as strong willed as Bob Lutz having his hand held through this process.
GM should be making the cars that built the brand and stop trying to build hybrids that nobody cares about except for .05% of the US population.
Americans want a 57 Chevy, GTO or a big pickup truck. That will not change and that is what GM is good at making, or at least was good at making.
I was very sad to see 30+ Camaros at Avis rental, really that is how you are going to build your brand. I feel horrible for the people still under the clouded management. Piss poor sums up this transition and weak sums up your inability to deal with labor.
Just think you could outsource all the people that change trash bags at 100K/head for people earning $8/hr and that would pay for the G8.
Nice work, looking forward to the second bankruptcy. I just hope that private equity purchases GM this time and cleans house of the bottlenecks in progressive thought.
As a long time owner and driver of of these cars, I say that if GM fails to save Pontiac and the great G8, the company may as well throw in the towel. Even if Pontiac is retained only for the G8 it would be worth it. The G8 is a “PONTIAC” and should not be rebaged as any other brand. Pontiac is GM’s only hope for competing with the other sports and performance minded automakers and the hard headed executives at the company need to realize this before it is too late. Keep your performance icon and market the car the way it deserves to be marketed and watch Pontiac blow the others out of the water. We are talking about the nameplate that gave us the great GTO’s, Firebirds, Grand Prixs and Bonnevilles of the past. These were class acts and demanded respect just as the G8 does presently. However, the G8 should be changed back to Grand Prix, a name that people recognize and respect . GM made some blunders over the last few years with all of these “G” models. Keep the revered names that made Pontiac great but more important, save Pontiac.
Bob,
Since someone brought up Chevy styling, could you please get someone to remove that god aweful thick bar running across the grilles of most Chevy cars? If they have to have a bar, then go back to the thin chrome ones. Leave the thick grille bars for the big trucks and SUV’s They’re big enough to be able to look good with it. Also, the Chevy emblem historically has been blue. It’s been gold for the past few years. What’s up with that?
Just more imports for people to buy here in so cal.
I have been a Pontiac driver for the last twenty five years 6 vehicles in all. I have loved driving everyone of them. I just got a 2009 G8 GT in Stryker blue and I have not had a car like this. I get people coming up to me to ask questions about the car. They gwack as I go by. This is a gem and it handles so nice. You really need to reconsider your postion on this car.
This car could work as a Chevy or Buick. You would get more bang for the buck as Buick thought.
I have been a pontiac fan since way back when. I’ve seen the ugly mundane undeer powered vehicles that had bodies that screamed more power. Yet, it was always about the bottom line. Keep it cheap and under powered and get rid of the law suits that way. But, most people want nice to beuatiful cars that aspire to say drive me. When I say most I mean most who cannot afford the high end tire burners. I have never really been impressed with a two sport car. But, the G8 finally made a statement that said right direction, right price though a bit high, right spirt. Now Pontiac is Gone. I think I’ll wait and see if you can import a Commodore for me. It wiill be better than what I see being offered. How about an opel 1.9 direct injection turboed charged diesel. People are ready for diesel tech in cars if it gives them the fun feeling along with the fuel economy. Along those lines how about takng the tech and making a 5 or six cylinder diesel engine for your heavier vehicles. People want choice and they want spirit. What say you Government motors. Get some balls and meet the demands of your customers and the meet the challenge of being green at the same time. Batteries die, and the recharge takes too long.
I can’t seriously believe the Pontiac is going away. Especially the G8. No matter where you seek out reviews, this car gets raves from everyone. It was bad enough when GM did away with the 04-06 GTOs, but now we seem to be going down the same path with the G8. Mr. Lutz, you are the only hope I personally have that GM will survive. You ARE a real car guy, and you KNOW what the public wants. SAVE Pontiac! The public wants it, and they need it. Want to cut a brand, cut GMC. GMC and Chevrolet are the same thing, come down the same production lines. Other than nameplates, they are basically the same.
Since my, along with 650,000+ other retirees health care depends on GM stock and it’s value. We NEED you to make the tough decisions that seem to escape others at the top of GM. As I said, personally, you are my only hope that GM will survive. Please, give the public what THEY want. Another thing, advertise the G8 car more! It reminds me of when I bought one of the first 2006 HHRs. I kept having people ask me, everywhere, “What is that”? I would park somewhere, after washing it, open the hood and doors to dry it off. I had people pull over and look it over. When I told them what it was, the options it had, and the price, they were amazed. I know I must’ve helped sell a few hundred myself. “Advertisement” of GM cars for years has been TERRIBLE. The same thing is happening now with the new Camaro. What is selling it is car guys ’screaming’ about it, not GM. Few commercials really show it like it should look, and for what a fine car it is.As usual, they talk price and mileage. Talk about THE CAR, for heavens sake. The rest will take care of itself.
Please, Mr. Lutz. Stand up, do what you know in your heart is the right thing to do. I don’t truly believe you understand what ‘you alone’ can do for GM, the public, and those who count on GM for their jobs and retirement. Give it your best shot, that’s all I personally ask. If they shut you down, shame on them. If they persist in being stubborn, I’d go ahead and retiree were I in your position. For I know you don’t want to be there when GM liquidates because GM failed to listen to the public, once again, as usual. That part of the “old” GM still exists in the “new” GM. Losing my health care would be bad enough. But to see a car icon go down with GM, because his hands were tied, would be another blow I’d rather not see happen, in my lifetime.
I agree good sir. Plenty of us wish the same thin. But there are some toyota guys out there that keep steering GM in the wrong way! THE PUBLIC WANTS PONTIAC!!!!! please save Pontiac Mr. Lutz!!!!!!
I’m happy to see one of my Buicks featured on GM FYI blog! Look at the comments about it and the actual G8 too!
http://fyi.gmblogs.com/2009/07/photo_of_the_day_twin_1965_buick_wildcats.html
If only this could happen!
Have not read every comment to get caught up but this sure is a hot button topic that te hnew GM will certainly ignore at the direction of DC.
But to set a few things straight: motorman, only the GXP (G8) gets a gas guzzler tax, neither of teh other two models does. Of course teh CTS-V gets hung wit hone while ordinary CTS does not..
Real world: many can afford a $35,000 RWD sedan (G8) but many cannot afford a $45,000 sedan (CTS) and good luck finding them at that price as most Caddy dealers stocked up on fully loaded vehicles with msrp over $50k
Camaro with DI V6 and 6-speed auto actually qualifies as a fuel-efficient vehicle to purchase using teh cash for clunkers program, imagine that. A G8 V6 weighs a mere 116# more than V6 Camaro, certainly can’t give up that much in mpg if it could be built with same powertrain, maybe 1 mpg at worst.
Camaro is prime example of a Zeta architecture car built in North America. Nothing too hard about duplicating body-frame production from Holden to Oshawa or elsewhere as GM has produced same vehicles at multiple locations in the past. Nothing says (other than some high muckity-muck) that a Buick GS/X or Impala SS could not be produced here instead of in Australia. Isn’t that the whole idea behind world car engineering? That one design can be duplicated and produced in country of sale?Yet would be (other than specific to country regs) virtually indisguinguisable from its cousins?
GM should reverse course and keep Pontiac for the following reasons; 1.] Pontiac has a more youthful image than Buick, 2.} Pontiac is more amenable to small cars, 3.} GM needs a performance division 4.} Pontiac had higher volume than Buick,5.} Buick dealers will miss Pontiacs volume, 6.}Some Pontiac loyalists will go away mad and purchase cars from other companies. If you keep Pontiac you can retain the g-8. I would make Pontiac a niche performance division with lots of turbos. The g-8 could be offered with a turbo six option. I would build lots of 4cyl turbos and twin turbos. I would put these on small rwd 4 passenger coupes and sedans that would be derived off the Solstice. GM needs younger demographics. Pontiac could fit the bill with premium small cars plus the g-8.. I am not against Buick, I would retain both, but I believe Pontiac could play an important role in GMs rebirth. I think one of the bitggest mistakes GM has made has been to listen to investment banker consultants who think GM should model itself after Toyota, few brands and fewer dealerships. I think GM should use its leverage to get its dealers to drop foreign brands. I think a big dealership network is an asset, even if some dealers are underperforming.
As far as marketing how about the slogan GM, cars built by people who love cars. Or GM we are passionate about cars. Of course you have to really mean it. How about an ad campaign that educates the American consumer about our trade deficiits. 800 billion a year. What are the ultimate consequences for the dollar and our standard of living. Show old abandoned factories counterposed with old films of industrial America. Try to create an atmosphere where buying foreign is uncool. You want Buick to compete with Lexus? Look up the old Lexus commercials from the early 90s. They used to emphasize precision build. I remember commercials with ball bearings I think Hyundua is doing the best marketing job today.
I am the proud owner of a Pontiac Grand Am that I use as my daily commuter car. When word leaked out last year about the possible demise of Pontiac I held off purchasing a replacement. Now with that a certainty, I am looking beyond GM for a replacement car. Comparable Chevys are too pedestrian. Buick has nothing for me and Cadillac is too high priced.
This is a big disappointment to me because I like the local dealer and have been purchasing vehicles from him for decades.
I can certainly understand your business case problem with Pontiac but you should realize that your decision is driving me away from GM not as a backlash but because your surviving brands do not have an affordable product that appeals to me.
Bob,
You need to read this Washington Post story about a guy who had never been a GM guy before trying to trade in a BMW for a Camaro and having a terrible experience with all the dealers in the area. They did not want to sell him one!
I think you have some damage control to do.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/achenblog/2009/07/guest_kit_why_cant_i_buy_a_cam.html
It’s called: “Why can’t I buy a Camaro?”
“I never heard back. I was shocked. Here I was, ready to buy, while GM was in financial straits. I thought they’d be all over me. Turns out it’s not so easy to obtain a piece of the American dream.”
When is the senior GM leadership going to address the problem your poor dealer network has created for you?
Here this poor guy WANTS to buy a Camaro, and he can’t even find a dealer who will work with him so he can test drive one with a manual transmission. His story certainly paints a sorry image of your dealers in the Washington DC area.
It’s such a shame that we will have to wait for GM to emerge from government ownership, for great cars like the G8 to return.
I may buy a Volt, but Pontiac Voltec was what I wanted from GM. Performance and great engineering. Where is that in the New GM? I just don’t see it.
I’m glad GM kept the Pontiac brand in mothball state. I’m not glad it will take another decade to see it come back. GM wanted to keep Pontiac alive and vibrant. Now we can’t even keep great cars like the G8 in the company?
Great. Guess that means another lame Impala on the way. Guess the government will kill off any affordable RWD cars. At least Hyundai offers affordable RWD cars. Guess they will be getting my new car purchase in a few years. Another FWD car with the name Impala is just a travesty.
I have read Fritz mention here on Fastlane that GM wants to be more customer focused, how does this decision meet that objective? I would bet the imported G8 was sold at a loss, wasn’t the original plan to build them in Canada eventually? Build it here and call the car the Pontiac Bonneville, it is worthy of the historic name. This is a great PR move for your company, all this indecision over one product.
Your ad campaign to try to make Buick appeal to younger buyers reminds me of the “Its Not Your Fathers Oldsmobile” ad campaign. We all know how that ended. Buick is not very appealing as a brand in this country. Hire someone who knows something about marketing and continue the brand that already appeals to the younger demographic-Pontiac. GM- We cancel excitement-Fiero GT, Trans Am, GTO, Grand Prix and Grand Am.
Bob,
I think its still a good idea to keep this car weather its a Pontiac or Chevy or other GM brand. Pontiac was and is intended to be the performance division or brand of GM. Killing the nameplate and the G8 will cause potential GM customers to look at other brands such as BMW, Mercedes Benz and even Dodge (ugh) for similar performance for a price automobile including me!! Make it an Impala I would buy it!! Please save the G8!! The Cadillac CTS is under power and smaller the G8 fill the gap!!!
Petitions online to save the G8
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/savetheG8/
http://www.gopetition.com/online/29534.html
Hi Bob:
Given such high level of interest for G8, why not extend another production run of the 09 G8 just to satisfy the demand and all the people who wants one can get it with this special run. You can even all it “the collector’s edition” if want, or wait until you receive enough deposits from commited buyers before you start the production run if you are so uncommitted to spend anymore marketing dollar on this line. This is exactly what GM did in 1996 when they decided to canceled the Impala SS. They pretty much extended the 96 production run until December (which normally ends in August) until the demands run out. I fail to see why this cannot be done for the G8. Think about it seriously Bob, there’s time left this year to do it.
Bean counters today, just as yesterday. I love my G8. You don’t see people slamming Ford or Toyota with comments like this, these are very ’specific’ to General Motors. Somebody should point the media at this blog’s comments and get it on TV.
Bean counters today, just as yesterday. I love my G8. You don’t see people slamming Ford or Toyota with comments like this, these are very ’specific’ to General Motors.
Ouch. Painful. Good point.
An open message to Mr. Bob Lutz,
It is not too late to keep the current G8 in the General Motors offerings. As an offended American, I simply see no reason to let this incredible automobile slip away. You stayed with GM for a reason, to make this corporation respected and as such, profitable. Your plans to remain at GM must include the demand that the G8 be retained and refined. This, and you must realize, is paramount to GM’s success. Finally, a world-class driver’s sedan from GM. Retained, means as a Chevrolet or Buick. Refined means a few more creature comforts and continued performance with greater fuel economy. The retained part of this arguement starts now. The refined happens over several years and produces the finest sedan on the market, at any price. Don’t fear evolution, embrace it and make it GM’s mantra. Let’s face it, GM has nothing to lose and everything to gain. Don’t let the G8 near-cult following down. I am not open to excuses.
Bob it’s so simple it’s like the nose on your face. if an American person wants a vehicle with four doors, ample room for his family and a choice of a V8 or V6 and RWD here in America he has to buy a Nissan, Lexus, Hyundai, BMW, Mercedes Benz, or any of many other countless Foreign vehicles, save the Cadilliac CTS. I’m not old enough for a Cadillac yet. Now if I lived in Bahrain I could purchase this Chevrolet Lumina S, which is exactly the vehicle I want. Click on the link below.
http://www.gmarabia.com/content_data/LAAM/ME/en/GBPME/001/G1/1L/1LPSE_overview.html?cntryCd=BH
Now Bob, you can either say no and not ship this vehicle here and I’ll continue driving my 1983 Chevrolet Malibu. Ifr you don’t do it soon I’ll have to buy a Dodge Charger or Chrysler 300 or even wait for the Avenger to become a RWD and buy one of them. You can then tell your bean counters you just lost a sale and a loyal customer. I worked for Chevrolet for seventeen years, back when it was strong. You had FWD if you wanted it but there were real cars with RWD also. Then you qiut building RWD cars and I quit buying cars. I’ve buying trucks and waiting on a 4 door RWD. Your new Malibu is a beautiful car but it’s a FWD, and I won’t own one. Haven’t your realized that when you brought RWD back to Cadillac is when it resurged and became strong again. Toyota drivers might be fine with FWD, but Chevrolt, Buick, Cadillac and truck people want FWD. Give me one in a Chevrolet or I’ll have to buy a Dodge.
Wake up and give us the G8 in a Chevrolet, you know it’s already badged that way in Asia and elsewhere, quit acting like it would be some kind of expense to do it. The sheetmetal is ready as a Chevrolet Lumina and you can’t use emissions as an excuse because the G8 is US certified and everything is in the Hoilden factory just waiting on your word to do it. Just ship the cars to the Chevrolet stores here and let them sell. Trust me you bean counters will be happy with the results. This vehicle is great and will sell it self. Even the Press loves this vehicle.
I worked for Chevrolet for seventeen years, back when it was strong. You had FWD if you wanted it but there were real cars with RWD also. Then you qiut building RWD cars and I quit buying cars. I’ve buying trucks and waiting on a 4 door RWD. Your new Malibu is a beautiful car but it’s a FWD, and I won’t own one. Haven’t your realized that when you brought RWD back to Cadillac is when it resurged and became strong again.
Actually, this is another excellent point.
GM was at its strongest when its line up predominantly consisted of RWD cars. Cadillac’s resurgence was the result of a well-executed RWD car. GM’s strongest and most popular products today are RWD, but they are trucks. GM started going downhill after it introduced a predominantly FWD line-up.
Does anybody in management read this, because he makes an excellent point.
Sad day. Bob is a superhero to me – (I’m a car guy and Pontiac owner hiding ‘in the closet’ ashamed to work for GM while they are engaged in such nonsense.) Now, this shows Bob’s powers are only mythical, easily overruled by the forces of evil . I was relieved to hear Bob was staying on, but now it appears that the stuff I dreaded would happen after he left is still happening while he’s here. God, how I long to hear one more time the truth as spoken by Lutz . ( Global warming IS a crock) Alas, it seems that Fritz and his Wagoneritis are contagious and have begun to infect my beloved Bob.
Why can’t beancounters understand that taking $1 out of the car likely reduces the price I’m willing to pay by $500? Things the factory can add for cheap cost big bucks to add once the car is finished. G8 was a great example. What other vehicle could I buy and customize to be a sweet as the G8 without spending enough to buy a CTS-v? This G8 was going to be my PoorMan’s 5-series, now there’s nothing left to lust after…….
This day is doubly sad for me, a great car is gone and now I suspect my job will be too as the downward spiral is obviously starting back up. I hope GM can pull out, but somedays it looks like we are still pushing forward on the stick even as we nosedive, and Co-Pilot Lutz whom I was counting on has been relieved of the controls.
COMMON SENSE.
Drop the SRX you already have the CTS sport wagon.
Give the Enclave to Cadillac and take down the Lexus RX once and for all.
Buick- an all car strategy to take down Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti.
Invicta or Park Avenue Build the 2000 LaCrosse concept as a new Park Avenue or Invicta sedan. Classic GM all the way. Price range 26K to 37K. Window dip can be a bit less severe for production model. National best seller in its class. Offer a 3.0L and a small V-8 option (3.9-5.3). wood steering wheel option. Affordable luxury sport. Unite Buick Pontiac, and Oldsmobile buyers and win over the Infiniti and Acura customers.
Riviera Build the new Riviera concept. (ok in sedan and coupe). Price $26-37K. target the Lexus IS, BMW 135i, and Acura. National best seller in its class. 2.4L, 3.0L, and a small V-8 option (3.9-5.3). Wood steering wheel option. Affordable luxury sport.
2010 LaCrosse 2.4L and 3.0L
Wild Cat (former Solstice). 2.0L
small Buick sedan 2.0L
Five car models for Buick, a full line to wow the public. This is the right thing to do.
Chevy Car –
Corvette
Camaro
Malibu
Cruze
Astra
Stinger (Former Sky)
Aveo?
You really have nothing for youth, i’m a mid 20s professional (civil engineer) and you really have nothing i’d drive next to a tahoe. I loved the G8 but i’m not in the market right now for another car, now it’s dead. I like the new lacrosse but you have no options for a performance version (i.e., GS, GSX, GN) it needs boost and a 6 to inhale it. You also have zero in terms of a two door sport coupe or anything for that matter that appeals to me. I can’t drive a camaro daily in upstate ny through two feet of snow. Cobalt SS is dead, monte is dead, GP GTP coupe is dead…it goes on. I was thinking about a G8 GXP add along side of my 02 TA CETA, i’ll have to look used in a few years now.
Just an FYI, i try to guide people towards GM, people of my age, it’s hard to do, they all say the samething, there isn’t anything I like. All i had was the cobyss and now that’s gone.
You killed Pontiac, bring what Pontiac had to Buick, make a “performance” or “youth” subdivision in Buick, like the V with Caddy. Boosted 6
Interesting. Did anyone else notice the amount of commentary for this G8 blog as compared to the blogs about the Volt? It seems to me that if I were a bean counter like Obama’s lapdog Fritz, Even I could see the total lack of interest in a electric vehicle as compared to a truly fantastic automobile like the Pontiac G8. I know, I own a Pontiac G8. Believe the hype.
I understand there is a place for a car like the Volt but there is also a place for Pontiac too as long as there are real enthusiasts and not just a bunch of “sensitive men that most females avoid like the plague. Man up Fritz your panties are showing.
Oh, as far as the name Buick Wildcat. First of all the name is as old as the average Buick driver, second, If there is a Buick Wildcat will it come with a zoot suit and chain? and third, don’t ruin a great car by putting it with a bunch of cars that will never be driven over 40 mph. It will become guilty by association.The most performance Buick owners want comes from a box of ex lax. End of rant.
On July 23, 2009 at 5:20 pm mark said:
“Oh, as far as the name Buick Wildcat. First of all the name is as old as the average Buick driver, second, If there is a Buick Wildcat will it come with a zoot suit and chain? and third, don’t ruin a great car by putting it with a bunch of cars that will never be driven over 40 mph. It will become guilty by association.The most performance Buick owners want comes from a box of ex lax. End of rant.”
Well Mark, what’s the fastest speed you’ve driven your G8 so far?
I went at least 3 times faster than 40 mph quite a few times with my ‘65 Wildcat!
I even took a picture of the speedo at 120 just to show you that some Buick owners can go faster than 40!
See…
http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/4/web/772000-772999/772306_103_full.jpg
Bob –
I just dont get it. I have tried to rationalize the decision to kill Pontiac, and I simply cant. Your selling Saturn to Penske and still feeding them cars didnt make business sense to me, but I know you have to consider the severance with dealers.
But with Saturn gone, I just saw the unique opportunity to finally make Pontiac the excitement division. For years I thought Olds and Pontiac overlapped, then Saturn and Pontiac. With Saturn gone you would have your Euro/excitement. Small excitement would mean cars that compete against the Golfs and MazdaSpeeds of the world. Big excitement would mean taking on the G37s and 5-series of the world, like the G8 did. The new Astra would have been a big seller if it were a Pontiac and gas hits $4 next year (it will). You have two clearly different looking cars with the Astra and the Cruze, and yet dealers would have been happy with having a small car (the G3 is simply sad, Bob). The Insignia could have been the next G6. Then you would have had a full compliment of cars.
Fritz, Bob, think again about bringing Pontiac back. With Astra/Insignia/G8/Solstice, you would have a full compliment to Buick’s models.
Thanks for the links zosoboogie.
I signed both petitions!
Petitions online to save the G8
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/savetheG8/
http://www.gopetition.com/online/29534.html
Please Fritz, Let Buick make a Wildcat out of the current Pontiac G8!
You know, I love how GM execs will tell you something is not economically viable, at the same time for that very car there are people just clamoring for it.
They said this about the Camaro in 2002 when it was announced they would quit building it. Now that they brought it back, they can’t build them fast enough. Does GM even think perhaps part of the reason they went bankrupt was because they quit building a car there was demand for?
This is just another case of execs in their ivory tower looking at numbers instead of getting the feel for what people want.
I’m fed up with the bullsh*t GM! Quit acting like your execs know everything because they don’t. Quit trying to please wall street and start trying to please your customers.
I swear GM is going to continue loosing market share and then blame someone else other than themselves. WAKE UP!
“Does GM even think perhaps part of the reason they went bankrupt was because they quit building a car there was demand for?”
This is a great point. Even abandoning well known names has cost sales. Pontiac probably lost a huge number of sales by abandoning well known and well liked names for their “Gx” names. Names like Grand Am and Grand Prix which, if kept might have increased sales on name recognition alone. Nobody knew what a G6 was and were hesitant to buy one. People sure did buy a lot of Grand Am’s though. Not using the Grand Prix name for the car we know as the G8 was also a marketing disaster as is constantly changing the name of Chevy’s compact line from Cavalier, to Cobalt to Cruze. Buick isn’t even left with a single well known name in it’s US lineup. No Century, no Regal, no Park Ave or LeSabre. This is the disaster that Toyota and Honda are avoiding by not moving away from well established model names. GM needs to correct this as new models are released. Give us a new Regal and a new Cavalier instead of a LaCrosse and Cruze. I bet you’d see better sales results.
First GM spends tons of money and time developing the NA Zeta program that was to generate much needed and exciting product for Chevy, Pontiac, Buick, and Cadillac. These cars, by all accounts, were beautiful designs and as we now know built on an excellent Platform. But GM, in typical self destructive fashion, decides to kill the entire program right at the time it was to be kicked off. Brilliant! Now you are stuck with an Over the Hill Limpala, stuck on an ancient FWD platform that is way past its prime and now must continue even longer because its replacement got cancelled. Additionally, you have over-lab between Limpala and Malibu for the same reason. Both cars are FWD, similar priced, and similar size. And apparently will be for the foreseeable future. One again Brilliant! But hey that was the old GM.
Enter new GM. They have a winner on their hands with the G8. It is getting rave reviews in the press and rave reviews by those that have purchased them. It is the best sedan that GM has ever built! Let me repeat that: It is the best sedan that GM has ever built! New GM decides to kill said car after a year and half of product and decides not to continue it as Chevy or Buick????? Brilliant! Just Brilliant! GM you may want to retain your current legal staff. I see Bankruptcy #2 in your future.
For Fritz: Why keep Mr. Lutz if you are not going to utilize his expertise? You are not a fan of rebadging? You should be less of a fan of killing the best vehicle you have made in years before it has even paid for itself.
What do your customers care about?
Just take a look at the number of responses to each of your recent posts here.
This car is where the passions of your customers lies.
And we all know that it is emotion that sells cars.
Time to admit the truth, at least to yourselves.
And, to act accordingly.
Regarding the G8 I have 6 words, 2 numbers and 2 abbreviations for GM:
Buick Badge
Diesel Engine (230 HP)
Turbo Ecotec (260 HP)
What is so hard to understand about that? Green, fuel efficient and not perfect but marketable. Get with it customers would buy them packaged that way. Post us when you’ve tried it and see how they really perform.
I’m hoping that Nesbitt does not convey his past design influences on Cadillac. GM does not need another version of the HHR/PT Cruiser.
Any design news on the 3-series killer Alpha car? Is that project still a go? If so, hopefully Cadillac uses a bit more design restraint on the grille and it more resembles the new SRX in size vs. the overdone CTS/STS.
Thanks for listening Bob.
Found that on Automobilemag.com:
http://rumors.automobilemag.com/6567227/news/japan-voices-concern-over-buy-american-provision-in-us-bill/index.html
For example, a Cadillac CTS is 30′000 $ (nearly 100%) more expensive in Japan than in the US! When will the US-Government “voice concerns” over that?! The Japanese government really is audacious.
Why not discontinue the current Impala, since it’s a dated body and bring the middle eastern Chevy Caprice over under the Impala nameplate? From what I’ve seen on the gmarabia.com website it’s a pretty nice car…..
Mark wrote: Interesting. Did anyone else notice the amount of commentary for this G8 blog as compared to the blogs about the Volt? It seems to me that if I were a bean counter like Obama’s lapdog Fritz, Even I could see the total lack of interest in a electric vehicle as compared to a truly fantastic automobile like the Pontiac G8. I know, I own a Pontiac G8. Believe the hype.
I want to reiterate an excellent point brought up in another comment.
GM was at its strongest when its line up predominantly consisted of RWD cars. Cadillac’s resurgence was the result of a well-executed RWD car. GM’s strongest and most popular products today are RWD, but they are trucks. GM’s last bona-fide passenger car hit was the RWD Oldsmobile Cutlass.
GM started going downhill after it introduced a predominantly FWD line-up. And a mediocre FWD cars, at that.
These people are on to something. GM needs to get back into the RWD passenger car business.
Does anybody in management read this, because he makes an excellent point.
This is utterly rediculous… Bob Lutz was right in the beginning… Police stationsa all around the country have been clamoring to get used chevy caprices despite brand new crown vics being made every day? Why? The caprice was the better of the two vehicles, why else would anyone buy a used 9c1 with 150,000 miles over a brand new p71 when the funding is more than available for the p71? The 1994-1996 caprice continues to hold a massive lead over its 2009 rival. The name caprice is pure gold when it comes to police applications. Bring it BACK!!!
I do not know what the dilemma is. Re-badge this car and allow it to live out it’s life. there is no major redesign needed or grandoise marketing plan needed. This is why GM is in trouble, this is why the company will not recover. because what your essentially doing is cutting off a brand new and extremely good product for no reason. Go develop new SUV’S for GMC because there is a huge business case there, and they are extremely fuel efficient….RIGHTTT… anyway this is one of the stupidest decisions I have heard in a long time. GM will regret the decision to kill the g8 and so will Holden the subsidiary of GM that will lose over $1 billion dollars from the cancellation.
Another excellent GM move. as I have said before, this company truly has not learned from all of the destruction that has gone on by mid and upper-level management, i can still see the same moves being made by new faces. I wish the company luck, but just dont see it.
I’ve been a one man army talking up these cars in the domestic car hating SF Bay Area. I convinced my Silicon Valley software engineer best friend to stop listening to his Acura and BMW loving geek co-workers and look at the G8 GT. He bought his on the spot two weeks ago and continues to thank me profusely. I accompanied my brother (who has previously supported VW, Acura and Mazda) last night to Dublin Pontiac – he also bought a G8 GT. The car is so good it sells itself.
There is NOTHING else out there that offers what this car offers at even close to its price. This car brings sophisticated, educated non-GM customers in and converts them to GM owners on the spot. I’m proud to have helped sell two of them but feel dissed because I don’t have the funds right now to buy one and GM isn’t committed enough to keep its most promising car alive. Sad for me; moreso for GM.
So, you can sell it in Brazil but you can´t do it in USA???? Lucky Brazilians!!!!!!!!!
Yup, same old, same old! GM is moving at the speed of Grampa’s. Chrysler is offering a match to the cash for clunkers to everyong, not just customers who have had issues with their product. Tesla already has the option of a solar roof…in comparison with Volt……
Moving at the speed of Grampa’s! Need to have a sugar and caffiene party and wake the ‘good ole’ boys up and get them moving’. Ford is jamming, Chrysler is jamming, along with all the other car makers…and GM is sitting on their hands…when are you going to actually do something…other than start a blog page?
We love you Bob.
GM has missed you. Quite as much as America has missed a conversation with her beloved `Pontiac The Immaculate’ – tainted only by the cold eyes of Madison Avenue that set (and keeps setting) their arrogant sights on the winning steed at Cannes.
While we may be unaware of the new advertising you have chosen to dispense with, I do believe that their (unexecuted) “execution” would have been judiciously warranted.
I would give anything to follow in your footsteps – even attempt to lead them when more inspired – to bring back the glory of America’s biggest cars. We can begin to accomplish this with a commitment to brand-customer dialogue that is as engaging, charming and sincere as “Lemon”, “Think of it as a Mercedes with Tabasco sauce” or, more pertinently, “Finest of the Famous SILVER STREAKS – a fine old name soars to greater fame”.
May I please have this chance Bob…?
Bob, I just read about your meeting with GM’s ad agencies, and I just have to say one thing:
You are my hero!
Every level of GM management should follow your style. The company would actually get things done, and rule the automotive world right now!
The decision to retire the G8 after two model years will be the final undoing of General Motors. Why? Several reasons, but foremost, an entire generation has given up on GM. This was not by accident. Every time an exciting vehicle with game-changing potential comes along, it gets cancelled. EV-1, Camaro, G8, Solstice, and Sky are just a few examples. And here we go, the new GM is going to offer the American public an electric car. Ten years after they killed the first. The Camaro returns, nearly ten years after its cancellation. We cannot wait ten years for a G8 replacement. GM will lose another generation.
You can’t deliver the Zeta to the US market even as a police cruiser and the Brits now are going to buy the IS, Bob you need to pick up on marketing not only here but the UK. I watched alot of Vectra’s trashed in movies, kinda like the old Caprices/ Impalas. It’s mostly free advertising considering the number of Law and Order/ NCIS/CSI shows on TV.
256 comments later and the public has spoken.
Sadly it has fallen upon deaf ears since the business is no longer about building cars but about building transportation appliances.
Forget about HD trucks on par with Dodge and Ford, RWD cars, affordable V8s and the other desireables enthusiasts want. Count on spirited V6s that accelerate pretty well but lack the impressive torque of a V8. Count on HD trucks with IFS that sit low to the ground and are worthless off-road. Count on CUVs replacing the traditional truck-based SUVs as another slap in the face of the outdoorsman. Count on decades of bland FWD sedans that have the chassis dynamics of a forklift, lack luster performance, continued promises of good things just around the corner.
As good as the W-body FWD cars are, 20 years from now will they still be rolling along as taxicabs?
Even though the HD pickups have a nice ride, in 20 years will they have as great a presence as the old SFA pickups still retain today?
Whomever pointed out that the RWD/V8 combination is the most favored was dead on. The F150 and the Silverado are hands-down the best selling vehicles and have been for over a decade. At some point the engineers and designers need to lock the bean counters in a closet and build some stuff that fosters feelings other than ambivalence.
James,
You’re right, GM’s HD trucks are beyond par with Ford and Dodge, especially the powertrain. Who wants to offroad with a 25ft long truck anyway? Go buy a Jeep Wrangler, or H3 if you want serious offroading.
Last time I checked, GM still makes the Tahoe and Suburban which are BoF. Most people don’t need that, so a CUV is a good alternative. I do agree though that even if GM does come out with more CUV’s they should continue to build some BoF SUV’s for the people who need them.
Do you really want the W-body cars on the road 20 years from now? They are good today, but will lack important safety features that will be available in 20 years. Not to mention their emissions will be worse. Isn’t that the point of the new “Cash-for-clunkers” program?
You must not live in the snow belt, because RWD is not the most desirable while driving in snow. FWD is better than RWD, and AWD is the best. Sorry, not all of us can afford 2 cars.
Hi Bob , simple solution for the G8 – fire the Marketing people!
As a loyal GM fan, I’m amazed that Mr henderson has not paid attention to the amount of comments on not selling the G8 as a Chevy Impala replacement. Just check out the number of comments compared to other press releases.
Mr. Lutz,
In the small town that I live in, Sylacauga, AL, now has NO American make car dealers. Both the Chrysler and Ford dealerships closed before the market meltdown took place. The Chrysler dealership closed due to poor sales, the Ford dealership due to a dispute about their building. Both our Chevy and Pontiac/Buick/GMC dealerships have lost their franchises due to GM corporate cuts. That leaves only three dealerships total in town; Honda, Toyota, and Nissan. What I am curious to know, is when or if GM is going to bring back a dealer to my town when the financial crisis blows over. Right now I have to travel at least 30 miles to the nearest dealership just to have a new key cut (my 2002 Cavalier key with over 200,000 miles on it wore out). I prefer to buy GM, but I don’t know if it is worth the hassel to drive 30 miles or further just to buy a car. I hope that you could please respond to this in some way. Knowing you actually read this would boost my opinion of GM greatly.
Good post Robert,
With the new GM there is a possibility you could have a key sent to you via UPS, Fed Ex, or any other courier. This is done in the software industry and many other modern companies. My brother is in the automotive business and he has sent big heavy automotive parts such as engines and transmissions via a courier such as Fed Ex! That’s right, Fed Ex sends a truck out in the country, far from the city, to pick up his auto parts. Having a key made by providing information to GM’s possible future telephone call center, such as glove compartment sticker code numbers and letters could get you a key in less than 24 hours! And that’s by staying at home. However, it would be a few dollars cheaper to have a key sent to you, via non-expedited, if you decided to order an extra key via US Postal Service once you had to start using the spare key for your GM vehicle.
Regarding distance to travel for other GM repair work:
My family has purchased brand new GM vehicles since the early 1970s. In the late 1980s and early 1990s my father went to another city to purchase brand new GM vehicles, even though we have 5 GM dealerships in our twin cities. When I had to take the vehicle for warranty repair and servicing it was to that city and not ours. I didn’t mind the distance because I liked the country drive to that city with the T-roofs off, many times. I say many times because the vehicle should of had all the problems repaired in one or two warranty visits instead of paying a $100 deductible each time for each warranty repair. But, that non-GM practice was put to a quick stop when the son of the GM dealership’s owner stepped in and personally overrode the service centre personnel and gave instructions to the mechanics. The next vehicle purchased from that dealership was used in construction without any warranty work needed and lasted 500,000 kilometres! It would have lasted longer if I hadn’t fried the electrical system using a 12 volt air-compressor to top up the tires (I personally continue to think the wrong fuse was used by someone else, or from winter salt road corrosion of grounding wires).
The new GM vehicles don’t need any warranty work like the old vehicles. As a matter of fact no warranty work needed to date.
Hi Bob,
Please push on GM so the G8 gets rebadged as a nice Buick! I’ve been waiting for a new RWD Buick for a very long time! Buick is the only “New GM” division who still hasn’t got a RWD vehicle…. And Buick happens to be the GM division that I like!
http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/3090/1121/7723060135_large.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/3090/1121/7723060137_large.jpg
1. Bob Lutz should have talked to Fritz Henderson before he opened his big yap about a product decision he wasn’t absolutely sure would happen.
2. From now on, fast exciting, beautiful RWD V8 cars will be rich men’s toys. The rest of us will be driving tiny, ugly, cramped 4-cylinder appliances which will never be rolling across the stage at anyone’s classic car auction 30 years from now.
3. FWD superiority in snow is a myth. A RWD car with limited-slip differential has just as much traction in snow as FWD. Living in Chicago, I can vouch for that. But, if enough people believe a myth, it automatically becomes true.
[QUOTE]On July 31, 2009 at 6:37 am Ken Smith said:
3. FWD superiority in snow is a myth. A RWD car with limited-slip differential has just as much traction in snow as FWD. Living in Chicago, I can vouch for that. But, if enough people believe a myth, it automatically becomes true.[/QUOTE]
Ken, you’re right!
Even with an open axle, many RWD cars are just as good or even better (and also safer) than FWD in winter. I live near Montreal in Canada and I have driven many RWD Buicks in winter and they were all very good in the snow. The only reason why I don’t use them much in winter now is to preserve them from being eaten by the salt). I now drive RWD Toyota trucks in winter and they are also good (and they have 4X4 when extra traction is needed!).
The RWD Buicks I currently have are equipped with the limited slip axle but I had two with open axles that were also having good traction in the snow. The cars that are bad in the snow are the ones with bad weight distribution…
I’m glad you mentioned your new “marketing hat.” I just learned about this blog and your new role as CMO. I have been involved with marketing for only 12 years and will be referring to this blog and trying to get as much information as possible as you progress in this new role. I’m really looking forward to learning from you! America’s watching Mr. Lutz, let’s see how well you do.
i love gm , i get twice as much out of a tank of fuel on the truck by turning it off at stoplights and timing my lights,yours wont be as good if you are in stop and go traffic for a long lenght a majority of the time on the interstate or if you face those kind of conditions and thier are aftermarket upgrades that have been proven to get better milage with your truck, its all about being well informed if ya ask me . love the looks of the camaro , love the g8, more of a ferrari and lambodude , wouldnt mind a camaro and i think im trading in the older chevy truck for a new one , yep iom an auto dude . i dont wanna be a nitpicker if im driving a new camaro who wouldnt wanna be me ? have a nice day
Bob,
Give us a sign that you have at least read all our comments..
Bob, do we have sales figures on the G8 that would support the love seen here for this car? Or is does this blog represent a small group of G8 enthusiasts. The reason I ask is that, if the passion seen here represents the bigger consumer picture for this car, then we need to take into account a recent quote by Fritz:
Fritz on customer focus:
“Don’t compromise what matters most to the customer — play to win or don’t play.”
Dominic,
Unfortunately, I think this blog only represents a small group of G8 enthusiasts. The ones who don’t care, aren’t here, and therefore and not heard. It’s like any website dedicated to any certain product. You only hear from the people who like it, because the ones that don’t, aren’t on the site.
While I like the G8 a lot and I hope GM finds a way to keep it, I think they know more then we do about making money on it.
Fritz talks with forked tounge. The G6GT Coupe, Convertible and the G8 should be rebadged as a niche car. If not Ford, here I come!!!
Tim, this blog isn’t representing G8 enthusiasts, it’s a blog for GM fans, for those who care about GM, it’s divisions or it’s products… If there are almost 300 fan posts in this topic, it means that people do care about this car! Compare the number of answers to this post and the number of answers in other posts on Fastlane blog… I’m a Buick fan but I care about the G8 because it’s the only new GM car I’d buy if it was rebadged as a Buick… And I don’t think GM really cares much about taking really good or profitable decisions…
It’s so easy:
Pontiac G8 = Buick Wildcat
Say it ain’t so! A former GM loyalist, I finally gave up on GM and bought a VW Passat in 2006 after my Aurora had spent half of its life in the shop. I’m in the market again, but I don’t see anything in the GM lineup that appeals to me except the Camaro, CTS and G8. The Camaro doesn’t have enough passenger or trunk space, the CTS is too expensive for a frugal person like me, and the G8 is going away. Why can’t GM simply replace the rental fleet Impala with a slightly re-styled G8? Maybe they would end up with a car they didn’t have to discount 25% to sell.
Mr. Lutz:
It appears that the CZAR of GM is suffering from ignorance of the auto industry. the big “O”s c;lunker plan is killing the used auto market, Barney Frank keeps his plant open and you kill the only brand of car I have owned since 1964 (Silver Tempest 326 Convertible). I bought a 1958 Custom Royal Lancer Convertible and have not bought another nightmare since.
Rodger Smith took GM from 70% Market share now not even 20%(?). MY NEXT VEHICLE WHEN MY G6GT CONVERTIBLE LEASE IS UP WILL PROBABLEY BE A LINCOLN MKT.
To protect the union and to help the Democratic Party, you caved. O Well
My grandfather worked for GM for his entire career, at the end he was designing the crumple zones on the Chevy Tahoe in Janesville WI. My other grandfather drove the delivery trucks to ship GM cars to dealers, again for most of his career. My uncle works in Texas at GM on an assembly line. So I do care what GM does as a company.
I’ve owned 3 separate Pontiacs. A ‘99 Grand Am, 2006 Solstice (currently) and a 2009 Vibe (currently). I also currently own a 2006 Chevy Silverado. So I’ve given my fair share of profit to GM for my comments to have some validity and get some answers.
I’m disappointed to see Pontiac go away as a brand. It seemingly fills a void for 20-30 year old customers looking for sporty cars that cost around $20k.
The Buick lineup has old fashioned styling.
The Chevrolet lineup caters for pure functionality (other than the Corvette) and has relatively cheap looking interiors.
The GMC lineup mainly has trucks and SUVs.
The Cadillac lineup costs $30k+.
If I was to buy my next car knowing that Saturn and Pontiac are going away, what GM brand should I turn to? What advertising concepts would be done to get me to buy a car from one of the four brands mentioned above? An infinitely-sized marketing budget does matter if the products are not what the consumers want.
Unless something is done you are guaranteed to lose customers to other automakers.
at this point of time, in order to get young buyers in buick , bring back the g8 as a buick!!!
How can you go wrong??
It’s a no brainer:
Pontiac G8 = Buick Wildcat
Dear Bob
This is a little off subject from the G8 becomeing the IMPALA(not caprice) although I still think it need to happen. A prime example is the july sales records. The current Impala and Malibu are too similar and the Impala is stealing sales from the malibu. Although that is not the Malibu’s only problem. I just did some comparson shopping between the number 14 in sales malibu and the number 2 in sales Camary and I am sad to say the Malibu does not have many advantages over the Camary. As a matter of fact the Malibu has more disadvantages than advantages. To get to the other reason I am writing is to respond to your statement about people wanting gas guzzlers. I feel a more apporate statement should have been no one want’s a gas guzzler but there is still a need for vehicles that are classifed as gas guzzlers. GM should and will supply these vehicles to the people that need them with a gurantee that they are the most economical and capable vehicles in their class. I dont mean to be nit picking but in the critical and delicate position that GM is in right now image is very important. Good luck and I do hope you can convince the people in charge that they do need the G8 to replace the IMPALA(not caprice).
Help me understand…… It is said you can sell a ‘man’s car’ to a woman, but you’ll never sell a ‘womans car’ to a man. So, how is it that GM thinks it can sell grandpa’s car (Buicks) to 35 yr old customers who came looking for the car they dreamed of at 25 (Pontiac) . Our culture is fixated on youth, you may sell kids cars to adults, but not the other way around. I just read the quote from Ms Docherty indicating that GM’s plan to retain former Pontiac buyers was to sell them Buicks. HA!!!!!!!!!
In my study of recent sales figures, it appears that Pontiac handily outsells Buick and Cadillac. Why not kill Buick and sell those old farts a toned-down Pontiac? You’d sure disrupt a lot fewer customers New LaCrosse is great, could have been a GrandPrix slotted under a G8 based bonneville
Buick isn’t an old fart’s brand. it’s only the products that were made in the last 22 years that are.
I have plenty of friends who drive Buicks and are below 50 years old! They just don’t drive the 1988 or newer models!
My father replaced his almost new 1976 Century Custom coupe with bucket seats and a console for a ‘77 Grand Prix when he was 28 (just before I was born!) because he wanted a car with a cloth bench seat to allow sitting me in the front! The Century was sportier than his Pontiac, it looked better and it certainly had a younger/sportier image than the ‘77 Pontiac Grand Prix.
Even in the 50’s, Pontiac was the division for the old farts. Buick was more performance-oriented. In 1955, the Buick Century was GM’s fastest car…
See my mom with the ‘76 Century when she was 22 and pregnant of me in fall of ‘76…
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3064/2683522017_9f95a9df0e.jpg
A friend of mine (he’s also the father of two good friends of mine) happens to be 1 year younger than my father is (he was born in ‘49) and he also had a new ‘76 Century Custom coupe which he traded for a new ‘78 Parisienne (same as the Bonneville in the States) as he got older!
See the video of this nice ‘64 Wildcat 4 speed. Buick should get something similar now!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMFeLvlzBwc
Pontiac G8 = Buick Wildcat
I may be a cynic, but there is no real business reason to kill of either Pontiac or the G8. Quite the opposite. This all comes down to politics, both internally at GM (there is a faction devoted to eliminating Pontiac and anything sourced from Holden) and from Washington (Pontiac’s rwd sporty niche was deemed politically incorrect). This is not down to beancounters. The beancounters could crunch the numbers and say “Why aren’t we building the G8 alongside the Camaro? We’d save on shipping, we could adjust supply more quickly to match demand, and they have similar powertrains and platforms. Plus we can squeeze Ontario for a tax break to build it there.” Mark Reuss has said that the G8 program was too high volume to make sense as an export program (when you export such a high proportion to one market, you are building it in the wrong place).. It is a decision based on misinformation generated by malice. Pontiac’s affordable performance niche should have been developed as a volume support for Cadillac. For every rwd Cadillac sedan, a cheaper, stripped down Pontiac to generate the necessary volume to fund development. Three sedans each, compact, midsize and large. Same platforms and powertrains, different sheetmetal and equipment levels. Simple.
The fuel economy issue is also misinformation. First of all there is no real-world rwd penalty. Direct comparisons are hard to make, since engines and transmissions are such a big factor, but compare a Malibu with GM’s port-injection V6 and 6-speed auto, against the bigger G8, with just a 5-speed auto and the same engine. With a six-speed auto the Malibu is rated at 17/26, and the G8 at 17/25. Not much difference and the 6-speed auto may account for all of it. However Holden is now launching the rwd sedan with a 6-speed auto and the direct injection engines from the LaCrosse (less power than those in the CTS). In the LaCrosse, the 3.0 L DI V6 is good for a 1 mpg gain over the Malibu in hwy driving (about a 4% improvement), and paired with the 6-speed auto, a 2 mpg (an 8 % gain) over the G8. In the rwd sedan however the gain is not a mere 8%, it’s nearly 22%. That makes it by far the most economical midsize V6 in the world. The more powerful 3.6 L DI V6, gets the same economy as the V6 Accord, 10.0 L/100 km. In US EPA tests the Accord gets 19/29 mpg, while GM was estimating either V6 LaCrosse would get just 17/27. So a rwd G8, with more passenger and luggage room, could get significantly better fuel economy than a fwd LaCrosse, with the same engine and comparable 6-speed autos. Compare also the V6 Chevrolet Camaro. It’s certainly no light-weight, but with an even more powerful version of the DI V6 and 6-speed auto, it gets 18/29 mpg, almost as good as the V6 Accord, and again much better than the LaCrosse. In less direct comparisons of different manufacturers rwd models also fare better than fwd of similar size, power and transmission. Perhaps we’ve reached a stage in engine development where the better induction and exhaust possible with a rwd layout (which also allows more power), outweighs the perceived penalties. For whatever reason, there is no longer any real penalty, if there ever was one. So why the fixation on fwd being better fuel economy than rwd?
The CAFE argument is even more ridiculous. Despite pressures to sell smaller lighter vehicles to meet tougher CAFE standards, the proposals actually have an built-in bias toward rwd. If you want the maximum credit you have to maximize fuel economy v. vehicle size. A smaller vehicle must also be more economical. But a standard fwd powertrain, with the front axle well behind the engine, is significantly smaller than a rwd platform under the CAFE standard’s definition of size. The CAFE advantage of switching to a rwd platform with a longer wheelbase more than outweighs the usually-quoted economy disadvantage, which I have already demonstrated, does not exist.
As for the business case against the G8, the only real problem is the volatile exchange rate. That could easily be solved by moving production to the US. The problem here is the tooling costs, and only the tooling costs. Development has been done. The powertrain, for the most part, is already built in North America. Volume is far higher than the LaCrosse has been for a long time, almost as good as the CTS, and more sustainable then the Camaro. The Sportwagon may not add much, but the Magnum did account for 20% of LX Dodge sales, and with far more sheetmetal commonality would be easier to justify with the G8.
So give us a break. The only reason to kill Pontiac is politics.
The market, CAFE, fuel economy—none are valid arguments against producing the G8. What it comes down to are exchange rates, tooling costs for shifting production and politics. You might even argue that you could not get the price down low enough to sell it as a Chevrolet (the Caprice Holden currently builds for export costs significantly more than the G8—as the Daewoo Veritas with 3.6 V6, a base price of over $US 41K, as the Chinese-built Buick Park Avenue with 3.6 V6, nearly $US 57K, as the base 3.6 L Holden Statesman, over $US 49K), and allow for fluctuations in the exchange rate. This price range should be occupied by a large Buick (the Lucerne comes close), but as with the old PA, it’s a tough sell when a DTS is not much more expensive.
Andrew Charles wrote:
“As for the business case against the G8, the only real problem is the volatile exchange rate. That could easily be solved by moving production to the US. The problem here is the tooling costs, and only the tooling costs. Development has been done. The powertrain, for the most part, is already built in North America. Volume is far higher than the LaCrosse has been for a long time, almost as good as the CTS, and more sustainable then the Camaro. The Sportwagon may not add much, but the Magnum did account for 20% of LX Dodge sales, and with far more sheetmetal commonality would be easier to justify with the G8.”
I don’t know if this thought is expressed in any of the previous posts in this thread…..the story “behind the story”, in my mind, is that the UAW/CAW would not stand for the G8 to become a Chevrolet as an import, since it impacts current W-Impala assembly operations in NA. As a Pontiac, it wasn’t as big a deal, since volume was so (relatively) low, and W-Grand Prix was gone, replaced in UAW’s zero-sum world by Camaro’s return.
Bob Lutz won’t always be around (whether this may be considered good or not) but it’s never been made clear by GM management about whether there is a true commitment to bringing a RWD “full size” Chevrolet back into the market–lots of teasing, lots of excuses, and lots of withering of market share while the thumb-twiddlers and puppeteers try to come up with something they hope the public will accept in the interim to create a litle cash flow.
Bottom line, tell us what THE PLAN is–if any–for a RWD Chevy sedan, and stick to it….being coy with “not right now” comments is a losing strategy. Your competition no longer CARES what secret plans GM may have–they no longer fear what GM may or may not do in the future.
i have a Pontiac G8 and as an aging 62 yea old CPA I can honestly say that this car has changed the image that people and clients have of me. This a well built car with excellent handling and good mileage for a car this size. I looked at Buicks at the same dealership but found them to bland and dull. Fritz Henderson does not know how the real world works and why people buy cars. He thinks he does but does not. This car should continue to be built,perhaps under the Chevy name.
Bob, I commend your goal of making compete with Lexus. Get as many red balls in the consumer report and you will. The Lucerne plant is scheduled to convert to Chevrolet volt and I can’t find out if you are going to produce a 2010 Lucerne. My 2007 is the best car I’ve ever owned and want to get a spare before you close out the line. All the talk is about the LaCrosse and none about Lucerne.
I wrote to another GM web site and no answer. Please advise.
The lady who ran Oldsmobile ruined it by letting the 88 and 98 run out and finally a minature Aurora. Don’t do that to Buick
Bob
Do you ever read or comment on any of these posts? If so where can the comments be found? I also would like to know if you ever take any of these suggestions into consideration? There are a lot of good suggestion and ligitamate criticism and if you would listen and act on just a few of them it would do a world of good for your company. Just think how much confidence a future buyer of your products would have if they knew you were actually listening to them. To have a place to post comments and ignore it means nothing. But to have a place to post and act on it can mean the difference between GM’s survival or failure. I know you can’t act on all of the suggestions and I know all of the criticism is not deserved but I think you are wise enough to tell the difference between good and bad.
I hope that some deciders at GM read this discussion and get some ideas… Over 300 posts on this subject means something!
What are your thoughts on Nissan’s new “Leaf” vehicle, and does it pose a threat to Volt sales? People who will purchase the Volt are undoubtely doing so because of the all-electric short-range commute it will provide. The Leaf will allow commuters to drive twice as far on a charge, without using any gasoline. How would you persuade buyers looking strictly for a vehicle to go to and from work, that the Volt is a better option on a daily basis?
Am i missing something regarding natural gas? Back in the 80’s my son was in a Boy Scout troop in Rochester Hills and one of the Dad’s was a project Engineer at the Tech Center working on pressure vessel design for NatGas vehicles. I spent 5 summers camping with this guy (who shall remain nameless)listening to endless screeds about how the technology was ‘there’ and nothing remained to be done. So by 1985 GM knew exactly how to do this vehicle with wide safety margins etc. I understand the lack of fueling stations but more specifically could Mr. Lutz tell us which economic and marketing roadblocks exist that are holding this simple technology back?
I am currently driving a Honda Accord EX and needing to get out of it. I was dead-set on getting another Accord and dead-set against another GM product (owned two previously). Until I drove a Chevrolet Impala SS, I was in love, and was ready to sign on the dotted line… but due to the “new GM” financing it was taking forever to get the paperwork together so I scrapped the idea at that time. And started yet again thinking about Hondas and Toyotas.
That is until I drove the Pontiac G8 GT… at first I was reluctant to drive it… but once I did I was SOLD! I keep seeing G6s on the road and can’t help but think “I want the G8 GT!” I don’t see as many of them around, my guess is the price differences and income for my area. My plan was to go and get a new G8 in the next month or so. However right after I made my decision I was told about GM scrapping the Pontiac brand. At first I thought well that just means I’ll be able to get a better deal. And I have wrestled back and forth on the idea of getting it anyway. But to me it just doesn’t make as much sense. The car I am looking to buy now is one I’m planning to keep. I am young and decided that I wanted something sporty but hate 2-door cars and wanted something that I didn’t have to trade in in the next few years when I begin to have children. The G8 fit into that PERFECTLY!
Sure I could go back to the original plan of the Impala SS, but after seeing and driving the G8… the Impala looks plain and boring. If I’m going to get something I want to be happy with EVERYTHING on it! I have once again made plans to go out and look at other non-GM brands, and will most likely not own another GM product. Congratulations GM you are setting yourself up to be right back in the same situation you were in earlier this year or worse. It’s sad that American consumers can come up with better plans to run our American auto companies than the people who have been working in the industry for years.
My suggestion is to listen to the the public and the people you are trying to sell too. Actually that’s exactly what you should do. I am in a marketing position and just recently had a seminar on sales, and the main point the speaker kept driving home was “Listen to what your buyer wants. Give them what they want, not what you think they want.” Sounds like the “new GM” could use some sales seminars if you asked me.
I am terribly saddened that I have found a car that meets all of my needs and wants, at decent pricing but am forced to forego it and look elsewhere. I wonder how long it will be before the “new GM” is no more GM.
Perhaps we should start a petition?
Read previous posts, it was already done!
Here are the links again!
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/savetheG8/
http://www.gopetition.com/online/29534.html
The Pontiac G8 is the best car GM has offered in years and should be retained along with the Pontiac nameplate. I think a petition would be great to save Pontiac as GM’s management team, Susan Docherty and Fritz Henderson most notably, has no business being in the position they are in with the ludicrous decisions they have made. Look at August sales figures. Pontiac was actually ahead of last year’s sales and outsold Buick and Cadillac combined by more than a 2:1 margin. They also outsold GMC. The G8 was 103% ahead of last years sales but fell for the month simply because there weren’t many left to buy. GM management has no business sense when they can look at figures like these and still praise their three “anointed” brands, Buick, Cadillac and GMC as the future of the company. Unbelievable!
GM is catering to the government’s demands instead of building cars that the customer wants. I have seen the old man’s new Buick Lacrosse and it is just another V6 powered, front wheel drive car that GM is trying to push on the public. Without Pontiac, GM will have little excitement to offer and will lose many customers like myself, but that doesn’t seem to concern them because all they want to do is appease a liberal government that wants to control business instead of helping the free enterprise system to flourish.
Never thought I would say that Ford is ahead of GM but they are, in that they have pushed the Mustang and made it a great retro automobile that people want. The GTO could have kicked the Mustang’s tale if GM had built it to resemble the classic ones of the 60’s but instead, they took the easy way out and it back fired. Another in a long line of blunders for a company that used to be the best in the business. They trashed the Pontiac division with T 1000s, G5s, G6s G3s, Aztecs and even a Korean built Lemans. They killed the famous Bonneville and Grand Prix names and regulated the GTO to an Australian built clone of a Holden Monaro. And then they wonder why Pontiac was having problems? It is your fault GM, you blew it and are continuing to blow it now by killing this great brand instead of restoring it back to its glory days with cars like the G8.
Save Pontiac or mark my word, your so called “New GM” will not work.
Mike
I’m so glad I live in the lucky country, that being Australia where we can still by this vehicle powered by a myriad of great 3.0 , 3.6 ltr V6 and 6.0 ltr, 6.2 ltr, 7.0 ltr V8 engines. I hope that now you folk know there is a GM Division in Australia that produces truly world class cars at an ‘o’ so competitive price, you don’t go messing with it. We have been self sufficient for 60 years at Holden and would appreciate no Government Motors meddling.
Wow, all of this response to the killing of the G8, arguably the best sedan in the GM lineup. I would bet that if you killed the entire Buick brand it would not garner this much response. I find it very disheartening that performance across the board is being downgraded. I have to say that at this point they have just about lost a lifelong customer. I might buy a used G8 as prices fall for a discontinued brand if they become real bargains, but I can’t justify buying a new discontinued car. There is just no way I will replace our last GM with a Lucerne or a rental fleet Impala. I have a 65 GTO, a 65 vette and a 2008 Shelby, my first ever Ford. Performance speaks to me.I guess GM no longer needs the G8, the Solctice, or me as a customer.
I would bet that if you killed the entire Buick brand it would not garner this much response.
You’re right Chris. The Geritol crowd would just switch over to Lexus.
Bob, thank you so much for coming to GM and bringing some life and excitement back to their automotive lineup, even if it was just for a little while.
Bob… come on, now. Bob…
This isn’t rocket science.
Kill the (old) Ford Taurus wannabe, queen of the rental cars, Lumin-pala, slap the badge and the bowtie on the G8 and call it a day.
Brain-dead decisions like this are why GM is bankrupt.
Jimbo,
I like the way you think.
Impala still need replacing and it need to be replaced by nothing less than a modified G8. If you don’t do that you are wasting your time and money(which you have very little of eighter). Think of this the Impala will no longer steal sales from Malibu,yuo can sell them to police departments,taxi companys and stretch versons as Buick Park avenues and Cadillac Fleetwoods. With this senario there would be plenty of capacity to warrent production. Although the Camaro plant is having trouble keeping up with production now it will not be that always. The upcomong extra production capacity at that plant would be perfect for the G8 Impala and friends.
I was brought up during the second world war, during that time, my father accuired a truck, around 1940 or 41 and it was called a General Motors Truck ( GMT ), I am begining to think that might be a good name for the single make truck your companiy will now be turning out. The name has history.
No business case for a world class, ALREADY DEVELOPED, affordable, rear drive, family sport sedan that we can all be proud to drive is the most distubing thing i’ve ever heard coming out of gm. If this is the new gms market strategy then they are in big trouble. If I was in charge at Pontiac I’d show you how to sell millions of Pontiacs.Pontiac has spent 40 years getting rid of their old fart status. Buick is at sqare one of this process so get rid of it. Refine the g8 into the game changer it is destined to be and you won’t be able to build them fast enough. Rename g8 to Grand Prix. Redesighn lower front fasia to make it look tough and classy. Aluminum skid plate and recovery hooks. Make it look like it coud survive an encounter with a curb or snowbank but keep the classy/aggresive look. Gauge or nav option in center stack blank. Full power seats with memory. Hybrid system for 6.0 litre is already developed for trucks and is perfect for a car like the g8 to further refine fuel economy. Offer the sport truck that can be actually used as a truck. The revised facia would translate well to a to the g8st. Develop next gen solstice it is a great car. Develop next gen Trans Am on upcoming smaller rear drive platform. Leave fwd to chevy. The closest the Perfomance division should get to fwd should be awd optional. Chevy created Pontiac to fill a hole in their product line and Chevy needs the performance division now more than ever. Buick and GMC have no business case. To save on dealerships put all gm product in one dealership and end the confusion. People want good product to back up good nameplates instead of gimmicks. Provide it SELL IT! Just look at the Ford Taurus. The name never was the problem. Keep Pontiac lean and focused. Trans Ams and G8 s had me driving out of my way to go by a gm dealer just to catch a look. They are cars you have to have. PERSONALLITY STYLE PERFORMANCE HERITAGE its all in there its PONTIAC. Some free advise from a loyal customer who does not want a Buick. 09 G8GT, 02 Trans Am, 98 Grand Prix GTP, 91 Grand Prix, 79 TA
Dear Bob
I would like to order a styker blue 2010 G8 GXP with 6 speed manual
Ok Bob its coming as a cop car there is no reason it can’t the next Impala. Quit making excuses and just get the job done. It may not be the G8 but its close enough. While you are at it give Buick a verson and produce them here in the USA. The fact that are built here in the US alone will assure some sales not to mention creating american jobs and good will for GM.
Pontiac G8 = Buick Wildcat
I think it should stay as a caprice for the fleet market and become the Chevelle for the masses. Chevelle SS for V8, regular Chevelle for V6. The Camaro should be named the Buick Wildcat with Buicks new design language and the GNX Stage 1 for the SS equal and the Stage 2 with the CTS-V motor pumped down to 500 even. Bring in a Cruze SS with the Ecotec Turbo and make the Opel Insignia the new Regal and the Insignia OPC(?) the Grand National. EVERYONE LIKES PERFORMANCE NOT JUST PEOPLE WHO WANT CAMAROS AND CORVETTES. You have your mass market cars covered, now appease the people who talk to you on the blog. Last time I saw a congressman wasn’t on here, neither was Obama. Just tell Fritz it’s a good idea, and since your the marketing guy, tell him theres a market for it. Screw public focus groups. Let the people who show up at Auto Shows be able to sign up for focus groups. Let people who go to SEMA sign up for focus groups. You want car guys( or women), let em speak.
Everyone needs to drive a G8 GT.
I test drove a Pontiac G8 and absolutely loved it. The sad reality is that front wheel drive torque steering exhaust rattling Pontiacs of the last several decades made any effort to rebirth the Pontiac name too little too late. If GM had more money and time was on it’s side, then a case could be made for the G8-but as it stands, GM has little money or time-so the G* (very sadly) must go.
One thing that would cater to car enthusiasts that feel jilted by the loss of Pontiac would be to bring back the so quickly scrapped SS team. I think Bob Lutz had been away from GM for approximately 10 seconds when SS was dumped. If you can Bob–bring back SS–to draw on the customers being lost due to the death of Pontiac.
Finally, for what it is worth-Bob-you are a brilliant guy. When you moved to product things changed dramatically-and now the same for marketing. Get someone to spend some cash on cloning over at GM.
Pontiac G8 as a Chevelle SS? Makes sense to me.
We the taxpayer and loyal customers have bailed your sorry buts out. Now build us what we want not what china wants. We want Pontiacs. If china wants buicks build them HERE and send them as many as they want. Maybe that can save buick. There boats should not go back empty that is the problem to begin with. Your company is a great AMERICAN company that is why i support and am proud to own Pontiacs and chevys. Now act like it and show us you care….
Mr. Lutz,
Pease tell us the name of anyone that is left at GM that will listen to what we, your Customers, are asking for. I hope you have taken the time to read the replies to your “”good idea at the time” letter. As you can see, GM has alienated a very loyal group of Customers by listening to Washington and killing the Pontiac brand. I, like so many others see no products offered by GM that fill the market niche that Pontiac has served since Bunkie Knudsen took off the “chrome suspenders” in 1957 and made Pontiac an affordable ENTHUSIASTS product line. The Buick LaCrosse is beautiful and fills the need for those wanting a Lexus 350 lookalike however those buyers dont understand nor care about the market the G8 and other Pontiacs filled so well. Fortunately, I own enough Pontiacs to keep me happy for a little while. ‘65 GP, ‘67 Firebird, ‘04 Grand Prix, ‘09 G8-GT. I guarantee you that you wont see a Chevy, Buick or Cadillac added to this list but you may see a Ford. Those people in Dearborn still “get it” and didnt cave take the cash bait offered by Washington. You have wounded GM even more by euthanizing the wrong brand. There still is time to change. Impossible has never been a word synonymous with Bob Lutz. Lets see you lead with your heart once again.
Such a waste to not keep this car as Holden products are awesome. Too bad it’s the only GM lineup that I have recently wanted to own. I enjoy my 06 GTO but was hoping to add a second Pontiac but one with the 3.6L Italian diesel that Holden was thinking about. I might buy a used G8 but I gotta tell you that since diesel powered car primarily come from Germany, I might have to buy a BMW 335d, Audi or VW. I really don’t want to send my money to a different company but after you gave us the Duramax I’m hooked on diesels. Was thinking the 4.5L Dmax would have been a good powerplant for Cadillac or the Holden Commadore/G8 but I understand the risks involved at this time. Too few Americans want a diesel at this time but I hope that changes in the near future and GM can once again be at the forefront of this. I’ve been driving GM’s for 35 years, to buy a BMW while they are cool and built well just makes me feel unpatriotic but dang it, I want a diesel car or SUV. Power this chassis with diesel and forget the hybrid Prius stuff. The Volt is too expensive but man I do like the looks. Tough time for GM and America. For me, the best cars you brought over were the GTO and G8 and for that I thank you.
Jeff,
I’d settle for a Buick GN version of the G8.. then again I like the LaCrosse I just wish it was built with the CTS transmission/drive train.
How about a turbo V6 version of the G8?
Bob Lutz is one of the very best auto executives in the business. But, he works for GM. There are many of us that will never ever again purchase a GM product.
Dear Bob
I will buy a chevy provided you build the right ones and build them right which means second to none across the board. I think a g8 type of vehicle as the Impala replacement would be a excellent idea.